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Turkey Gloats As Europe Threatens Greece With Schengen Expulsion Over Refugee Response
This weekend, Europe generously rewarded Turkey with a wire transfer of €3 billion (more coming) in soon to be ebmezzled funds over the country's "proactive" stance in limiting the outflow of refugees originating from its territory. When we first reported on this modest bribe by the European Union, we said that "next we look forward to learn how much that other key entry gateway of the migrant pathway into Europe - Greece - will demand, now that the EU's desperate starting bid to halt the refugee flow has been revealed."
Unfortunately, when it comes to negotiations, Greece always manages to screw things up especially now that, as a vassal state of Europe, it has absolutely no leverage. As a result, its starting bid is not only zero, it is effectively negative because as the FT reports (in a piece show title was curiously changed from "Greece threatened with Schengen suspension over migrant response" to "Greece warned EU will reimpose border controls"), unlike the carrot approach used by the EU in dealing with Turkey, Europe has decided that the stick is far more appropriate when dealing with Greece and as the FT writes, "the EU is warning Greece it faces suspension from the Schengen passport-free travel zone unless it overhauls its response to the migration crisis by mid-December, as frustration mounts over Athens’ reluctance to accept outside support."
In other words, not only do the Greeks suffer under the weight of 700,000 refugees crossing into its borders from Turkey and headed for a "welcoming Germany" which is no longer welcoming...
... now they have to suffer the indignity of being ostracized by their own European partners who are being remarkably generous with non-EU member Turkey, which may very well be funding ISIS by paying for Islamic State oil and thus perpetuating the refugee crisis, while threatening to relegate Greece into the 4th world, and with visa requirements to get into Europe to boot!
Here is Keep Talking Greece with more:
Anti-Greek circus in full motion: kick Greece out of the Schengen area
So, the European Union does not know how to deal with the refugees and threatens to suspend Greece from Schengen passport-free travel zone, if Athens does not accept to hand out its borders controls to EU and Turkey. It was November 27th, when the first official threat came out from the lips of Eurogroup head, Jeroen Dijsselbloem. He warned that countries which fail to adequately guard Europe’s borders could find themselves outside the Schengen borders. In order to make it look ‘smoother’ he put in the same top also these countries that “do not take in a fair share of refugees”.
Today the Financial Times makes a big story out of these threats, thus announcing that Greece could be suspended from Schengen as soon as of mid-December.
picture by @stratosathens
In short, the article puts all the blame on Greek government thus claiming that the EU is “frustrated” that Greece does not “accept EU help”, “joint patrols with Turkey”, “deployment of 400 Frontex staff to immediately reinforce its border with Macedonia,” [FT means the Former Republic of Macedonia] and “humanitarian aid.”
“Greece’s relatively weak administration has been overwhelmed by more than 700,000 migrants crossing its borders this year. Given the severity of the crisis, EU officials are vexed by Athens’s refusal to call in a special mission from Frontex, the EU border agency; its unwillingness to accept EU humanitarian aid; and its failure to revamp its system for registering refugees.”
Everything is nicely set and said in the FT article as it re-chews the EU blackmailing threats and does not addresses crucial issues like:
Which agreement dictates that Greece should accept joint patrols with a non-Schengen, non-EU member country like Turkey.
What is the specific mandate for the 400 Frontex staff and who will come up for its expenses. The Frontex mission is supposed to be a s0-called ‘RABIT’ mission (Rapid Border Intervention Teams) that was used in 2011 at the borders between Greece 7 Bulgaria.
“The Rapid Border Intervention Teams have the task of surveillance of external borders, short-term intervention mandate in times of “urgent and exceptional pressure, especially the arrival at point of the external borders of large numbers of third-country nationals trying to enter the territory of the member State illegally.”
And here we have the first paradox: The refugees at the border with FYROM try to leave Greece not the other way around. FYROM is not a Schengen member.
What are the EU’s conditions to provide humanitarian aid for the refugees in Greece and if Greece accepts the “EU’s civil protection mechanism” how many thousands of refugees will be bottled up in Greece and for how may years?
How exactly will the Frontex at Greece’ northern borders and the joint patrols with Turkey operate and under which legal framework and how exactly will they prohibit refugees from coming to Europe?
“If the EU follows through on its threat, it would mark the first time a country has been suspended since passport-free travel was established in the Schengen Agreement of 1985,” the FT cheerfully notes although everybody knows that the Schengen zone was established in 1995.
Furthermore, FT does not explain that while member states can temporarily suspend Schengen passport-free movement, there is no legal base for the Schengen “authorities” to suspend the provisions and ‘punish another member state. It’s typical EU legislation, just like in the case of the Eurozone: provisions stipulate how members can enter but not how they can exit…
Citing four senior diplomats, FT notes that “EU’s home affairs ministers will meet upcoming Friday and will make clear, that “more drastic measures will be considered if Greece fails to take action before a summit of EU leaders in mid-December,” and that “the suspension warning has been delivered repeatedly to Greece this week, including through a visit to Athens by Jean Asselborn, foreign minister of Luxembourg, which holds the EU’s rotating presidency.”
Of course, a Schengen suspension will not affect at all the refugees inflow, it will only impose passport controls for Greek citizens. So, what will be the gain for Europe and the Schengen member countries? Practically, minimum to zero. They will punish Greek passport holders. So what? The real gain will be political and thus for the conservatives on Europe.
Ask the Germans
The German conservatives are reportedly furious, as furious as Germans conservatives can be and move the strings into a new show “Blame Greeks for all evil of this world”.
“The Germans are furious and that’s why people are talking about pushing Greece out,” a EU diplomat was quoted as saying by the FT. He said “the red line for the Germans was not allowing Frontex to come in and help them.”
EU affairs news portal Euobserver, notes that
“The idea of suspending Greece from the Schengen area has been floated in the EPP, German chancellor Angela Merkel’s centre-right political family, since the height of the migration crisis late summer.”
Germany’s satellites, the eastern European countries joined the chorus line. Hungary’s PM Orban demanded already in September that EU should take control of Greece’s borders. Last week, Slovakia’s PM Fico called to expel Greece from the Schengen area, saying “We just cannot put up with a member country that has openly given up on safeguarding the Schengen area borders.”
It is worth-noting is that these countries refuse to take in refugees.
The new war
International and local press reproduces today the “furious” claims putting all the blame of Refugee Crisis on Greece. Main thing, they wash their hands of the crisis.
- “Greece has also refused to take on many of the 300 available eurodac machines for fingerprinting and registration of refugees in the single EU database, citing problems with Internet connections and staff training. Greek officials say they already use 45 eurodac machines and 15 are underway.”
- “EU diplomats complain that Greece has not fulfilled its promise to organize three flights to resettle refugees in other member states. Partly due to registration problems in Greece. Only 159 refugees from 160,000 have been resettled in Europe. (via Greek euro2day)
- “Earlier this year, Greece delayed the disbursement by the commission of a €30 million aid package to face the refugee crisis when it did not provide the necessary documents.”
- “The commission has also been waiting, since August, for Greece to request the activation of the EU civil protection mechanism that would trigger support from other member states.” (euobserver)
- “Greece is breaking Schengen rules” (a UK journalist on my Twitter TL)
Things are not as simple as they seem to be and claimed by the EU diplomats, the furious Germans and the press. Things are complicated 1. due to issues of Greece’s Foreign Policy (Turkey, FYROM) and 2. because it is understandable that Greece does not want to keep thousands of refugees on its territory.
Why should it?
The suspicious ambitions of the Frontex
In a recent interview with China’s news agency Xinhua, the head of Frontex, Fabrice Leggeri said that
“Under current rules Frontex has no access to security and criminal databases in order to run systematic security controls to ensure that documents used by immigrants arriving at the European Union’s external borders are fully checked.”
Therefore Leggeri pledges for an expansion of the Frontex mandate and will call on EU member states that Frontex “should be granted more autonomy and more room for manoeuvres”. Otherwise the checks conducted by Frontex are very basics.
The Frontex allegedly plans to move its regional office from Piraeus, Greece since 2010 to Italy.
Furious? Who is Furious here?
I don’t know who is more furious here: Merkel’s arch-conservative party friends who want to exploit Greece for one more time and the Refugee Crisis for political gains? The Frontex that demands expansion of its mandate” Or we, Greeks, who watch for one more time the same anti-Greek circus set in motion.
It is interesting that small and broke Greece is perceived as the source of all European problems, be it the Eurozone- or the Refugee-crisis.
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Those who control europe hate europeans.
Time for greece to tell the eu to fuck off and cozy up to the brics.
It's all Bullshit!!! For almost 8 years we have been just a day or week away from a major crash. It never materializes with all the central bank printing presses going.
It's a slow motion crash of European society
To make us more MERICAN in the 20th century sense of the word.
Read Desmond Fennells "the third stoke which did It"
Ask Russia for help patrolling Greek waters and have them shoot at any turkey ship delivering the hordes (on it's return trip anyway). And while you're at it, have them install some S-400s and shoot those bitches down. It's real fucking easy Greece. You just got to have the balls to do it.
Europe Threatens Greece
Here's the official Greek response...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zvl9N9GdraQ
March 2015, the Greek government threatens to flood Western Europe with a "wave" of migrants, including jihadis, if it doesn't get what it wants:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11459675/Greeces...
I'm tired of these "poor little Greece who has the right to receive as much of other people's money as they need" articles. Kick them out of the EU and EMU already. Better yet, dissolve the EU and EMU, stop bailing out banks, and stop talking about "austerity" when there's nothing of the sort going on, especially not for bureaucrats and bankers.
Interesting how Greece is threatened with expulsion while Turkey is rewarded with 3 billion for essentially the same activities.
Greece, throw off your bankster chains!
"...which in sleep have fallen on you.
You are many, they are few." - PBS
That is what happens when you miss your chances in life.
They could have been out of the EURO currency by now and giving the finger to the "moneylenders"
Instead:
http://goo.gl/3G3r6i
That's why they need to replace RABIT with BORAT (BOrder RApid Teams).
And "Throw the juice down the well!"
well, sovereign can do quite a lot of things, some good and some bad... at the same time. meanwhile, the definition of what is good or bad is based on politics
Turkey did let millions of war refugees in. Humanitarian +1. Turkey did let them... get out. "Fix": money from the EU... to keep them in
Greece did let them in. And some of them out. On a completely different basis of what treaties would (humbly) suggest. Rince and repeat up to the now closed Swedish border
add a nice european Left bashing of Orban's Hungary on the way for being a in-your-face conservative setting up fences
Considering the fact that the refugees are coming in via sea, Greece doesn't really have much choice but to let them in. Considering the fact that the refugees don't want to stay in Greece and that Greece can't accommodate such numbers anyway, it doesn't really have much choice but to let them out either.
The problem is not Greece, the problem is Dublin.
Greece could seize and then scrap every ship that comes with the hordes.
Make a deal with Russia. They get the gas pipeline into Greece regardless of what EU says and Russia uses their giant military cargo jets to fly the hordes of invaders into the middle of fucking Afrika.
Greece will soon need some foodstamps.
http://www.thepornster.com/video/475/homeless-blowjob-reality-porn
Yes, now I understand.
The Greeks are to blame. The Greeks did this. The Greeks did all of it. What went wrong? The Greeks did it.
And the Greeks must be punished. No level of punishment is too high.
There is a problem? The solution is in Greece.
Greeks must feel the full extent of Greek guilt. For all of it.
I do not like the Greeks for what they did, and what they didn't do.
Hey Greeks, We have to give Turkey $3 billion for, uh, stuff.
That kind of money does not grow on trees.
So go get your jewelry, the money from gramma's cookie jar, and your gold fillings.
Don't make us come and get those gold fillings!
China might be a more realistic source for such assistance, as the Russians are relatively cash poor and manpower stretched between Ukraine & Syria. The Russians also have permanent facilities at Cyprus and Tartus, whereas the Chinese don't have a permanent military presence in Mediterranean, and while the EU & NATO will surely object to to any foreign base in Greece, their leverage against the Chinese is less, and the Chinese already own 1/3 of the largest port in Greece.
Europes CULTURAL DILUTION MANDATE
Greece- the trashcan of Europe. Just dump all your shit there. Somebody will be along to pick it up.... eventually.
This is problems with frenzy liberal mind of socialist/fascist crowd, cognitive thought is overcloud by limbic response to every event. What other rational mind is predict, liberal mind is unintending consequence. Again and again, rinsing, repeating. Please citizen of world - is time for rational mind to make stand and remove incompatible borderlinet-personality sociopath from equation!
well, yes, the liberal (classic) mind's standard response to nearly anything is "let them do it, and then we'll see". it always includes unintended consequences
that's something both conservatives and socialists are moaning about since practically ever
one the "angry" sides of this article is the EPP. that's the european conservatives, btw. people many ZHrs don't believe they even exist
partly because they can't tell the difference between conservatives, liberals (in the classic sense) and socialists. three main sides don't fit a political system that requires two sides
Was the Yuan's admission into the IMF basket yesterday not enough econ porn for you??
Sombody doesn't grasp the concept of timeline very well. The event horizon for the current system is coming. The event horizion is not going to be reached this week or next. Stay tuned.
In short BM, a Basket Case!
Cyprus should allow a temporary Russian airbase to further enhance its attacks against ISIS and its enablers.
On or about 1 December, six Turkish F-16 fighter jets violated the airspace of Greece at arount 15:01 local time (16:01 GMT). The General staff of the armed forces of Greece stated:
"A group of six Turkish F-16 crossed Greek airspace between the Islands of Lesvos and Chios without providing a flight plan ... Four Turkish aircraft left the Greek space at 15:28 local time (16:28 GMT), two at 15:30 (16:30 GMT)".
https://z5h64q92x9.net/proxy_u/ru-en.en/tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/...
Multiple aircraft invading another country's airspace for half an hour definitely deserve Turkish treatment.
Guess the Greek peeps had the right idea on the debt negotiations while the Greek Pols totally effed it up. Surprise!!!!!!!!! Things would be a little different now. In more hindsight news I wonder if Putin is second guessing himself about not bailing out Greece.
I would suspect that it was not the right time. The worst case would be to bail out Greece and not gain the appropriate amount of gratitude to overcome the EU strong arm. The more EU beats on Greece, the more likely they will be to look for new friends.
Clearly the Greeks need to be driven deeper into the cycle of Despair, before they act.
True change does not come about until a person or a People have thrown aside the last shreds of Delusional Hope (Hopium), that their habits, culture or religion propagates, and have donned the mantle of Reality and Natural Principles.
Greeks need Ulysses, Sparta, Achilles, Apollo, Athena, and Mars. And not some ME hippie teacher/rabbi, that the Romans promoted to Deity status. Being "nice" only works with other "nice" people, i.e. those of the same ideology or worldview. If you don't believe me, just try being "nice" to a snake or African lion.
I have never met a "nice" christian.
Nothing but scam artists and scum of the universe.
"Onward christian soldiers" wasn't written by a hyphenated jewess for no reason you know....
"Those who control europe hate europeans". did you even read the article where the author states that things are even more complicated then (the already quite complex) way the EPP conservatives put it in regard to Greece?
from the article: "I don’t know who is more furious here: Merkel’s arch-conservative party friends who want to exploit Greece for one more time and the Refugee Crisis for political gains? The Frontex that demands expansion of its mandate” Or we, Greeks, who watch for one more time the same anti-Greek circus set in motion."
in this, I'd say: the EPP conservatives as much as the socialists in Greece. Frontex is not furious. Frontex just wants more funds, more ships, etc.
The EU could'nt be more blatant in its goal of asset-stripping/financial rape of Greece .
Suprising that any other country will deal with them-
Greece, do yourself a favor and get out, period.
If Greece bows out, how will they invade Syria and sell their oil?
Turkey is a non anglo NATO nation for one reason.
Whoever controls the Turkish straights controls the MED.
Thats why Russia wants to be such bff's with Syria. Its gives putiput the reason and manpower to be there. Putin doesn't care about the Russian people any more than Obama does.
The 5 sisters are just beating the drums to keep everyone in line and to keep the heat off of them and local law enforcement for their false flags and allowing illegals into their borders. Surely, law enforcements biggest reason to exist is to keep proper borders no?
There is nothing new about this current "new world order".
Its the same old order that has been fighting for thousands of years.
Now why didn't those cowardly Daesh folks who slaughtered innocents in Paris recently go blow the FUCK out of the EU Parliament?
interesting notion. perhaps because they are not mad about the EU (Parliament)? meanwhile, Israel is really, really mad about the EU (Parliament)
Who said anyone really died during that false flag in france?
Who said the french are ever innocent, or always?
http://youtu.be/dpDkYZWeeVg
May I suggest little moustache as a finishing touch?
I'm offended! I thought ZH was a safe space.
It's a safe Fight Club....unless it's your first time.
Didn't think the sarc tag was needed but apparently there's a slow one among us.
There's always that one guy.
At least 2.
Brilliant. Great stuff, wb.
Johnny got hisself a new wallpaper.
Well - home... Not work...
Shooting down a Russian jet has its advantages - you get 3 billion euros and are hailed as a hero of NATO.
Swiss Bankers licking their lips ... moar money [$3 Billion euros] for their secret bank accounts.
Moar banker bonuses for Christmas!
Must be sweet to be a Swiss banker.
Speaking of which:
SYRIA -- BREAKING: DID THE US AND SAUDIS USE AWACS TO HELP TARGET THE SU-24?
http://m.liveleak.com/view?i=588_1449008088
And parenthetically:
http://mobile.todayszaman.com/latest-news_israel-delivers-awacs-equipmen...
http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_48904.htm?selectedLocale=uk
Make of that what ye will.
A U.S. Air Force Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS plane took off on 24 November from the Preveza airbase in Greece. A second E-3A of the Saudi Arabian air force took off from the Riyadh airbase. Both planes were executing a common task—determining the precise location of Russian aircraft. It is they that picked the “victim.”
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/bombshell-turkish-attack-russian-s...
Pretty sure that this is an act of war.
Regardless, it was surely meant to start one - the russian retal to be framed, israeli style as an aggression arising out of nowhere that demands a swift and overwhelming response - whether to a hospital or school, a power station or milk processing plant.
FORWARD!
P.S. Think O'Bombya made the call?
JustObserving
How do we know Turkish F16s really took down the SU24? Foxtrot Alpha had an article on November 6 saying 6 US F15C were just deployed to Turkey. Maybe the US EWACS guided the US F15C (an air-to-air fighter aircraft) to the border and fired the missile to down the Russian jet.
In war, truth is the first casualty. We will never know for sure.
Why not a US AWAC guiding a missile fired by an israeli F-15C?
Why not go full-non retard.
I have no doubts that this was a US scheme, because it's the US, not Turkey, that got maximum profit from the provocation.
Just as I suspected. Which now begs the only salient question:
"WHEN WILL SYRIA/RUSSIA IMPOSE A NO-FLY ZONE (NFZ) AND A NO-ENTRY ZONE (NEZ) OVER SYRIA?"
Do they lack the brains, balls or military ability, to do so? It's a 1000% legitimate and appropriate question. [tick, tock, Kremlin]
p.s. Use your own version of EU's RABIT, by bringing in BORAT (BORder Assurance Teams); and then "Throw the ... down the well!" ;-)
+1 lol
Do not pass Brussels, do not collect your 72 virgins!
Economist?
11.3 (3rd week of November) Obomber OKs Turkey's planned shootdown
11.5 (5th week of November) Turkey shoots down Su-24 as planned.
Close the southern approaches and leave the northern border wide open
scha·den·freu·de..... bitches.
What a scam the EU is... under one roof to be controlled by Zios...
Greece should join BRICS now... forget EU, have some Russian bases there
Even more Turkish gloating over how the EU caved in to Turkish blackmail: http://www.todayszaman.com/national_eu-bows-to-turkeys-threat-on-refugee...
The Eastern European countries might want to put the Iron Curtain back on. Don't underestimate the orthodox connection between many of these countries.
The Eastern European countries? they are currently busy protesting against another pipeline at the bottom of the sea linking directly Russia and Germany
My bad. I meant Southern Eastern European countries. But that is a subset of Eastern Europe right? These countries are actually quite keen on a pipeline connecting Russian gas with Western Europe going over their territories but that will atract attention of certain alphabet agencies like that happened in Macedonia a few months ago.
right, though I'd be tempted to point out that Macedonia isn't part of any "eu-something". particularly because of... Greece
Yes, I know. Neither is Serbia for instance but the need for gas can achieve miracles. Europe has a gas problem (not due to copious meals) but the US not gonna like it if South Stream would be taken out of the moth balls.
Another interesting development is that Montenegro has been offered NATO membership which they will accept most likely. Russians pissed off of that, threatening retaliation. Mostly they will be pissed off because Russian 'nouveau riche' bought up a lot of real estate in MNE and ruined the coastline with massive hotels. If they now have to share that with a NATO naval base in the picturesque village of Kotor they might have to sell that because Putin will make them.
Serbia, Macedonia and Bosnia not member of neither EU or NATO and won't be for a long time to come. In Serbia it would be political suicide for a politician to join NATO and Serbs in Bosnia will block it.
right. btw, Montenegro is the source of a very interesting piece of monetary trivia: it adopted (unilaterally) the EUR. just like that, no involvement with the ECB, nothing
Yes, that is right. It is of course an insignificant country. It has the population of a mid sized city in Europe.
MNE is also run by a thug called Djukanovic. He has been around since the breakup of Yugoslavia. Started as a cigarette smuggler (somehow they always seem to start that way but there is of course good money in that). MNE destroyed its precious coastline by building grotesque hotels and resorts. A lot of it was bought by Russians and many Russians go there on holiday. That might end now. Russians also not going to Turkey. Hmmm, Greece might get popular with them now (unfortunately).
Yes, but do they have a printer as well? Wake us when new money creation anywhere actually require the creation of new, real collateral.
no printer, no war. no war, no printer needed. same as for humungus stock market, disfunctional housing market, bloated financial system, etc., Montenegro seems not to care about such things
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rE02ifUM60M
Wake up greece.
All the suffering and derpivation that the EU Politbureau have imposed on you and the fuckers are giving, YES, giving the Turks oodles of moolah. Bribery and corruption at the behest of US foreign policy. The US is helping Turkey to upset Russia, don't you know. Sorry, I meant ISIS.
TELL THE EU TO FUCK OFF, AND TELL TURKEY TO GET OUT OF CYPRUS
Greece became an ugly duckling in the EU.
Listen to Jonathan Faull.
A British euro civil servant active since the 70s.
The sheer blandness of the euro communists stands out.
A strange evil indeed.
They have no connection to anything, neither hearth nor home and wish this evil projected on us all..
The euro pox will not stop.
Aren't you the same guy that says that there is no housing crisis in Ireland, just a quarter of a million of empty homes?
I thought you were a (bland) euro communist, too, according to this and other statements. now I'm a bit confused
You are such a fake Ghordius and a poor propagandist to boot.
These useless canards are pathetic.
I am a social creditor with a bit of agrarian distributionism in the mix
I am not a communist or believer in a overly centralized state apparatus.
The state should only exist to sustain individual freedom and localism.
since I do not regard myself as a propagandist, more of a student of propaganda, I prefer to see it as a compliment, "poor propagandist"
meanwhile, I am sincerely puzzled by many of your comments. are you sure you are not a communist? when it comes to... capital? or currency?
or, better, can we agree that you don't subscribe to the Austrian School's concept of malinvestment?
your words, aren't they? a quarter of a million Irish houses empty but no, there is no such thing as a Irish housing crisis. please explain
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mjKD9kEAvzw
There is major flaws in this Belloc like agrarian view of the world as it is now a Industrial surplus economy but his highlighting of what makes this philosophy different from both liberal finance capital (freedom for the Few) and communists is close to the mark.
http://www.theimaginativeconservative.org/2010/09/economics-of-distribut...
Does Capitalism Work?
The people who argue that “capitalism works” are the same people who argue that we should have less government interference in the market. Now, I am all for less government; however, the plain fact of the matter is that capitalism cannot function without this interference; capitalism relies on an expanded state to balance aggregate supply and demand. Consider this fact: in the period from 1853 to 1953, the economy was in recession or depression fully 40% of the time. Since 1953, that is, since the economy became fully Keynesian, the economy has been in recession only 15% of the time.[3] Moreover, the pre-war recessions were, on average, twice as deep and twice as long as the post-war ones.
There has been an on-going attempt for the last 30 years to return the economy to its pre-Keynesian status. Since the rise of Margaret Thatcher in 1979 and Ronald Reagan in 1980, the political rhetoric has been about “free markets,” “lower taxes,” “less government interference,” etc. Both Reagan and Thatcher took Fredrick von Hayek as their economic mentor. But the more “Hayekian” the economic rhetoric became, the more Keynesian the economy has actually become; the unintended consequence of Hayek’s policies have been the opposite of what Hayek wanted: larger governments, greater debts, more centralized economic power, and so forth. Keynes’s policies are certainly, as Hayek claimed, a “road to serfdom,” but Hayek’s policies have turned out to be a super-highway to that same dismal destination. Nor is this true just for the United States and Britain. Since the Reagan administration, the World Bank has forced Hayek’s economic policies on all the developing economies, and the results have been uniformly dismal. Indeed, the theories of Hayek have been tested just as much as have the theories of Karl Marx, and with about the same results: more government power, less economic freedom; under neither did the state whither away, but became an all-encompassing behemoth.
ok, ok, so we both agree that "Voodoo-Economics" as proposed by Reagan and Tatcher is silly. +1
what about that quarter of a million of houses in Ireland?
I believe in a recent report Deutchbank hinted they will be destroyed if they cannot be built.
Then they will rebuild them and charge the full construction cost + interest.
Family formation for the people with freckles has collapsed... Indeed this happened in the mid 90s as the number of births reached a nadir before the migration wave.
The plan as always is to fill these propagation boxes with fully formed foregin somethings from the world village
Irish 20somethings (already depleted, see above 1994 birth nadir) are somewhere else, fleeing bank inflation as always.
gs.
meanwhile Germany has cut Greece's defense budget (to save German banks) by 50% in the last 5 years (from 10 bln/yr to 5 bln) as well as cuts to the coast guard, judiciary, and border patrol....
Meanwhile back in Kiev USD/Euro denominated loans "on tap" to aid in the asymmetric stick to offset the heavy losses in Syria and Iraq.
How has this guy been allowed on us television let alone into congress??:
"WASHINGTON – Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, and Emerging Threats, on Saturday issued the following statement concerning Turkey’s shooting down of a Russian jet fighter on the Turkey-Syria border:
It is imperative that American decision-makers admit to themselves and begin basing their decisions on the hard fact that Islamic terrorism poses the primary threat to our safety and the peace of the world.
Our president seems incapable of uttering the phrase Islamic terrorism, much less of overseeing a policy that will defeat this evil. His incoherence is ever more evident as events in Syria unfold.
Not radical Islam, but the Russians have been portrayed to us as the villains in this chapter of history. Yet our government demonstrates a lack of will, incompetence, or both, in confronting the most monstrous of the radical Islamic marauders now spilling vast quantities of innocent blood in the Middle East – as well as in Africa and France.
When Russia courageously stepped into the breach we should have been applauding its willingness to confront ISIS. Instead, we continue to denigrate Russians as if they were still the Soviet Union and Putin, not Islamic terrorists, our most vicious enemy.
So now we see the travesty of a harsh condemnation of the Russians for introducing air strikes against terrorists who will murder Americans if they get the chance.
Yes, Russia does this to protect Syria’s authoritarian Assad regime, which has close ties to Moscow. So what?
Assad, like Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, is no threat to the United States or the Western world. If Assad is forced out of power he will eventually be replaced by an Islamic terrorist committed to raining down mayhem on Western countries.
Today we witness the spectacle of American decision- makers, in and out of the Obama administration, joining forces with a Turkish regime that grows more supportive of the radical Islamist movement. There is ample evidence of President Erdogan’s complicity in ISIS’s murderous rampage through Syria and Iraq.
Yet, we hold our public rebukes for the Russians, who are battling those terrorists. A Russian plane on an anti-terrorist mission did violate Turkish airspace, just as Turkish planes have strayed into Greek airspace hundreds of times over the last year. This overflight was no threat to Turkey. Still, it was shot down, as was a Russian helicopter on the way to rescue the downed Russian pilot.
Why do Americans feel compelled to kick Russia in the teeth? Russia’s military is attacking an enemy that would do us harm. Why ignore the hostile pro-terrorist maneuvering of Turkish strongman Erdogan?
President Obama is wrong. American politicians who try to sound tough at Russia’s expense in this case are not watching out for the long-term interests of the United States by undermining those fighting our primary enemy, Islamic terrorists.
Russia should be applauded. Instead, it is being castigated for doing what our government is unwilling to do to confront the terrorist offensive now butchering innocent human beings from Africa, to the Middle East, to the streets of Paris.
If being in NATO means protecting Erdogan in this situation, either he shouldn’t be in NATO or we shouldn’t. "
http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/rep-dana-rohrabacher-if-being-nato...
Someone ought to tell him that cia has worked with turkey and israel and the house of saud directly and substantially. No doubt about it.
Too bad the fbi would never in a million years do dick.
One wonders if ten years from now if we still even bother holding elections.
Answer JH:
All of them treasonous cocksuckers that should have 535 hangman's drops in a perfect circle around the U.S. Capitol to be put on public display for the rats and cockroaches to pick clean...
And when that is achieved a far more horrifying spectator display for the folks at the Pentagon, Langley and Ft. Meade.
That's the ONLY WAY this will be fixed!
http://www.publibookireland.com/2116/third-stroke-did-it-by-desmond-fenn...
Yes, suspending Schengen in Greece would make it harder for Greeks to go to the rest of Europe. That's the idea. The PTB don't want a pack of verifiably Christian refugees fleeing poverty Islamisation in Greece on their doorstep. The Greek kids might do well at school and compete for the jobs the PTB have their eyes on for their own pampered snowflakes. Nagahappen.
If I was Greece I would not leave the EU. I would stay in the EU and annoy the fuck out of it.
It's a bit like having an abnoxious guest at a party whcih you cannopt get rid of.
Instead of doing Europe's bidding, Greece should become as painful as possible in an effort to get the maximum concessions out of Europe.
If Europe wants to control the numbers coming into Greece it just has to go the Turkish side of the border and stem the flow from there.
that's exactly how EPP conservatives describe the behaviour of Greece's socialists, and that's exactly how the EU "fixed" the issue... with money. to Turkey
I would secure the border on the other side.
If Greece lets them in, I would not let them out.
I certainly would not give a jar of piss to Turkey , who are also huge part of the problem.
https://www.rt.com/news/324252-russian-military-news-briefing/
US pal and NATO ally Turkey
2,000 fighters, 250 vehicles and over 120 tons of ammo have been sent in the past weeks from Turkey to terrorists in Syria, fuelling the violence in the country.
Russia cannot comprehend that such a large-scale business as oil smuggling could not have been noticed by the Turkish authorities. Russia concludes that the Turkish leadership is directly involved in the smuggling.
Russia doesn’t expect Turkish President Erdogan to resign in the face of the new evidence, even though he had promised to do so. His resignation is not Russia’s goal and is a matter for the Turkish people.
Greek airspace has been violated more than 1500 times this year.
Last year (a bumper crop) of 2240 times!!!
The culprit ? Turkey.
Fuck them and their enablers, the USSA.
Turkey has been waiting for the Greek govt to fail for decades to invade.
As soon as the EU goes to shit Turkey is sending everything it has to invade Greece and grab as many islands as it can before Russia kicks the living shit out of them.
Turkey has been looking at Greek Islands and drooling since the dawn of time and has historically taken every chance it could to grab what it can and invade when it can.
Let's not forget it was Russian military (like my grandfather and his son) that help free Bulgaria and Greece from the Turks in the first place.
Why is Greece pro E.U. What exactly have they done for Greece?
The young in greece are brainwashed into thinking they are "european" its like a "trendy" thing to be "european" whatever that means.
The elderly in greece are brainwashed into thinking that government should take care of everyone so they vote socialist and they buy the propoganda that there are still "rich greeks" to tax and steal from.... all the "rich greeks" dont keep their money in greek banks they keep it off-shore and only bring in what they need to build nice houses etc.... / maintain a good living standard.
The elderly collect social security checks and give most of the checks to their kids to spend, the kids live off their parents SS checks for the most part, i fyou are aged 20-50 and your parents are still alive in Greece, their SS check probably makes up about 70% of your income.
If you are a greek citizen you only have a nice house, nice car, and a good life if you pretty much spent 30 years in America working and moved back to greece and keep your money in another bank outside of greece.
Everyone in Greece is poor and lives off the land/Govt handouts, and all the govt handouts are funded by loans from the E.U. , the E.U. just takes what it wants from Greece (land, ports, monuments, landmarks, airports, mineral rights, water rights, utility companies) etc.. etc... Greek govt pretty much selling the entire country out for hand-outs.
The only way you have a middle class +++ life in Greece is if you own a hotel or something or a restaurant on the beach right next to a hotel but the taxes are a bitch and the foreign banks come and freeze your deposits lol.
The only successful businesses in Greece are the ones that operate 100% cash to avoid taxation.
Farmers dont make anything in Greece.
And there isn't enough local demand for goods and services between Greek citizens to drive the economy because all the Greeks are poor.
Socialism sucks.
But the nice thing is in Greece you can drive around drunk/high as fuck and have a good time, this summer we spent the entire time doing donuts in the rental jeep drunk and high off our rockers in the middle of the towns lol
IF greece down the road doesn't declare all the loans illegal and leave the E.U. there wont be a "Greece" in 10 -20 years, it will be renamed like "German Colony # 1 " lol
Thats the situation.
Also to boot , the Greeks that do give a shit about their country dont care because they believe in the prophecy that Turkey will invade Greece pretty soon to start WWIII and Russia will come and save them and the E.U. Will get nuked to shit so the debt doesn't matter.
Who is right remains to be seen, but that prophecy doesn't seem to be far off and its been pretty accurate so far considering the past 3 years events.
Let's not forget that it was those fucking miserable little boy molester Brits that involved themselves and supported Turkey.
The Zionist plan is coming to it's final stages. They will close the borders with Greece and send all "refugees" back to Greece citing the Dublin agreement. Then to finish things off , they will Grexit the country and pull a "Cyprus" on all cash savings. Greece will be completely finished once and for all....FUCK THE EUROPEAN UNION OF ZIONISTS!
sure. explain to me why Israel is so pissed off by the EU, while you are at it. Israelis not Zionists? The EU... fully in line with Zionist goals? lol
Why are you laughing? Most Israeli people are not zionist for your information.......Israel is owned by the Rothchilds, but the population is not zionist for the most part. What part did you not understand?
Turkey got a mandate/money from EU to bottle in more than 2 million refugees, number of which are planted by ISIS and on their way to primary target, Europe. Turkey will either allow those elements to proceed into Europe or become secondary target itself. My bet is that EU gave them money for nothing which will become obvious fairly soon.
The Greeks deserve every indignity the politburo of pedophiles in Brussels can inflict on them because they were stupid enough to bend over backwards when their "radicals" sold them out to continue using the euro dollah petroscrip toilet paper clogging the global Ponzi sewer. Either dump the €uro filth, recover your sovereignty and tell the pedophiles in the Brussels politburo to shove it or enjoy being shafted until there is nothing left to shaft.
Onward to the stoneage!
Greece is a failed state, the country has been pillaged and looted and corrupted since it joined the EU.
There is nothing left of Greece its a carved out carcass, the government has no power to do anything about the Immigrants(it cant make them come in faster and it cant kick them out) whatever happens happens in regards to the Muslims flooding europe, Greece has no control over anything and it doesn't have the resources to expedite migration or to hinder it.
Greece is at the point where 99% of the revenue the Greek govt collects is being spent on collecting more revenue and maintaining some kind of fake military to keep Turkey from invading.
Social Services have collapsed in Greece.
Businesses are all on the verge of failure.
Pension systems are all on the verge of failure.
The ability of Greece to service its fraudulent debts are on the verge of failure.
If the EU wants the Greek Govt to do anything but sit there and absorb tax revenue the EU will have to foot the bill.
There is no real legitimate Greek government anymore, its just a few EU Kleptos sitting in chairs milking it while they send the Govt Goons door to door stealing from the elderly.
The young Greeks are sitting there spending their grandparents/parents social security checks on fornicating and drinking.
When the SS checks stop coming in everything will turn to shit VERY VERY fast in Greece.
I find it hilarious that the EU thinks Greece has any control of the situation lol, the Greek Govt kleptos that meet with EU bureaucrats must be putting on a good show at every meeting to keep up appearances.
When your govt is going door to door asking if you have any precious gems, money or jewelery .... you know your country is on the brink of destruction.
National Bank of Greece (Ticker NBG) is about to go bust/get delisted on NYSE.
The country is like not even circling the toilet, its at that point where the water at the bottom of the toilet is gurgling a little as the last drop makes it down the pipe.
>> Of course, a Schengen suspension will not affect at all the refugees inflow, it will only impose passport controls for Greek citizens. ... They will punish Greek passport holders.
Not really, not much punishment, Greeks can still enter Schengen countries freely - by showing their passport at the border.
What Greece should do is simply to issue Greek passports to landed refugess. And send them on their way, freely able to work anywhere in the EU.
correct. but your suggestion would make many EU countries very, very angry. particularly the same ones that already do that... for those who invest in their countries
I doubt Greece can afford ink and paper to print passports at this point in the game.
So, apparently
Erdogan got a 3 billion Euro contract
to shoot down the Russian SU-24.
Greece needs Russia , I guess the EU is doing Greece a favour showing them that they don't belong in E.U.
The present European agents/corrupt politicians ruling Greece , such as Tsipras (spelled cheap ass) have a limited future.
Wishful thinking scenario where GRC
*GRC GRexits from EU - Currency (EUR) and Trade/Visa Zone...
*GRC closes borders, preventing Refugees/Mercs/Agents to enter from TRK - possibly with help from RUS, CHN, and/or IND.
*RUS/CHN/IND buy equity into GRC Assets, gain access to Naval/Air Bases, etc. in GRC as part of the deal (leaving NATO as well).
*RUS/CHN/IND, with AIIB, provide Financial Aide to replace EU's Packages with better terms. GRC_Gov not off the hook; but State-owned Banks provide for much lower interests rates than the Private Rentier Banks handling the EU_Deal.
*Since it's RUS_Orthodox helping out GRC_Orthodox, the "Religious Demographic" are appeased. If TRK closes borders w/GRC, they'll just pass ships through the Bosphorous, and fly around TRK.