This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
"Dis-Union" Grows - Danes Vote To Protect Sovereignty, Reject Further EU Integration
To be sure, just about the last thing the EU needed was another blow to European solidarity.
The monumental challenge of coping with the millions of refugees who have inundated the Balkans on their way to Germany has splintered the bloc and now, the debate on how best to deal with the flood of asylum seekers threatens to shatter the sacred Schengen ideal altogether.
On Wednesday we reported that the EU has now threatened Greece with indefinite suspension from the Schengen passport-free travel zone unless it overhauls its response to the migration crisis by mid-December, as frustration mounts over Athens’ reluctance to accept outside support. At the same time, Turkey (who is now fond of starting world wars) is set to receive a €3 billion check to support Ankara’s efforts to “keep migrants in the region.”
Well, in case the situation wasn’t fractious enough, Denmark voted against further integration on Thursday in a referendum that boasted a turnout of 72%. As WSJ reports, “voters were asked if parliament should have the power to opt-in on a total of 22 EU justice and home affairs laws, from which the small Nordic country has hitherto been exempt.”
53% of Danes said “no”.

“The outcome is a defeat both for the Danish government and the main opposition parties who had urged voters to back the proposal, arguing it was necessary for Denmark to combat cross-border crime and remain a member of Europol even after a planned overhaul of the intergovernmental police agency next year,” WSJ goes on to note.
“The result of the election is based on a general skepticism toward the EU,” PM Lars Loekke Rasmussen said. Rasmussen contends that deeper integration is paramount if the country wants to "fight cross-border crime." "At stake is the ability to coordinate everything from tracking cyber crime to ensuring family disputes get the same legal treatment across EU borders," Bloomberg adds.
"Danes are saying yes to cooperation but no to relinquishing more sovereignty to Brussels," Kristian Thulesen-Dahl, head of the EU-skeptic, anti-immigration Danish People's Party, said on Thursday. The DPP is the big winner here and the vote effectively means the majority of Danes do not support a move to subject the country to Brussels' migrant quota system. "DPP leaders have said that adopting the government plan could compel Denmark to participate in joint EU efforts to tackle the region’s migrant crisis," WSJ says. Rasmussen says that isn't the case.
Now, the PM will have to struggle to keep his country in Europol. "Rasmussen said he now would have talks with European Council President Donald Tusk and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker aimed at reaching so-called parallel agreements that would allow Denmark to continue cooperation with Europol, among others," AP says.
As for the consequences of preserving the opt-out, Denmark will now be cut off from critical information given last week's changes to the role of the European police agency. Danes "won't have immediate access to Europol registers on foreign fighters in Syria, criminal motorbike gangs, etc.," Henning Soerensen, a lecturer in EU law at the University of Southern Denmark, warns.
So there you go. No access to centralized data on "motobike gangs," which means that if the Hell's Angels decide to stage an attack on Copenhagen, Denmark will be out of luck when it comes to shared intelligence.
The vote has wider ramifications. As WSJ goes on to suggest, "the result of the Danish vote could have implications for British Prime Minister David Cameron as he seeks to renegotiate Britain’s relationship with the EU."
As a reminder, Brexit is one of SocGen's five black swans for 2016 and "Denmark voting against further European integration could strengthen Cameron’s negotiating hand, since he could use the Danish referendum to show the U.K. isn’t the only country with major concerns about the EU and that other European populations are weary about further integration."
So there you have it, more "dis-union" and just one more reason to believe that the EU project has entered what might fairly be described as a terminal decline. If the Denmark vote tells us anything, it's that terrorists need not waste time attacking Europe - it's going to fall apart on its own.

- 14 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -


It's about fucking time Danes.
Festivus for the RestOfUs !!!
Go Danes !
http://goo.gl/BZIOCS
They still let them vote? And it counts?
Maybe. But at least the tylers provded some resolution for the clickbait.
And as testimony to Ty's good taste... that was "clickbait" worth clicking. It was the tongue that sent it over the top...
GO DANES!!!
Also, send me some Danish Gingers please.
Reading the justifications and explanations given by these politicians advocating a 'yes' vote clearly illustrates that either A. they are bought and paid for imbeciles, or B. they think the electorate are imbeciles.
What arseholes.
Well done Danes. It's good to see that there remains some people with thought capacity and the best interests of society in mind.
Concerning however that 28% of the electorate couldn't be arsed and of those who could... 47% voted 'yes.
Time for an European Lincoln to rise up, put the dissidents in their place and SAVE THE UNION.
thanks, but no, thanks. I know it flatters our overseas cousins no end to think so, but we are quite sure in not wanting to copy the US system or history
indeed, too many discussions about the EU are constantly poisoned by a continuos reference to a much, much younger World
the domestic and internal history and issues of the US do not matter in the slightest manner to us in Europe. only the US foreign affair stance
Well, perhaps if ya'll could quit offering us advice on our "health insurance" and "race relations" then?
Thanks ;-)
nmewn, I don't remember offering advice on your "race relations", to be frank. I find that a baffling conundrum
I do like to fop you dear cousins about your "health insurance" thing. I do like to point out that you choose the most expensive template from Europe, that of the Swiss (without considering that Switzerland is one of the least corrupt countries of the world)
I also do like to point out that our "socialist" National Health Services are very, very cheap, in comparison to other solutions, and have many arguments for them, despite being socialist
I am, after all, a smug damn bastard that loves Fight Club. Advice, anyhow, is a gentle argument, distinct to "You Have To Do As I Say Or You Are An Idiot Or Worse"
Ready to give more advice. Just ask!
I enjoy your posts, my friend, but I have to agree with Ghordius; Obamacare is the WORST possible healthcare solution. But you don't need lessons from Europeans. Just look north.
The only thing wrong with Canada's health care system is the government forbids most private health care facilities for ideological reasons. However, even there, cracks are beginning to appear as the light finally dawns on the stupid socialists. For example, in one Toronto hospital, they don't have enough money to fund the clerks and techs to run the MRI machine 24 hours a day. So it was sitting idle for 10 hours a day. Someone figured out that they could pay the gov't to use the machine, pay the staff, and charge people who didn't want to wait. Everybody wins: the machine gets used 24/7, the province doesn't spend a dime more (and in fact, gets revenue from renting the machine), and the people getting the MRIs 1) get them faster, and 2) are pulled out the 'public' queue, thus shortening wait times for everyone in the queue. The only downside is you have to get your MRI at 3 AM. If I were worried about a brain tumour, I'd probably be awake then anyway, filled with anxiety, so may as well pay for it and know.
A single-payer basic system, augmented as described above, makes a lot of sense. Single-payer saves billions in processing (Canada spends about 10% of GDP on health care, the US about 16% - how much of that extra 6% is going to UnitedHealth, etc. ?), frees people from having to stay in a shitty job because of healthcare (e.g. I knew people in 2000 who worked for tyrannical bosses because they had 'full' health care, and were afraid if they switched jobs they'd be forced into an HMO with lower benefits and higher fees), and provides, overall, about the same outcomes (life expectancy actually higher in Canada than in the US, but I'd put a lot of that down to our somewhat paler nature).
America is (used to be) great at many things, but it is not perfect; unfortunately, there are many Americans (not you) who suffer mightily from "not invented here" syndrome.
So, you believe health care is a right that should be administered by the government?
Not at all, but that battle was lost years ago, and is unlikely to be reversed. So, if you're going to live in a world where socialized medicine exists, shouldn't you try to get the BEST form of socialized medicine possible?
The biggest flaw in the current Canadian system, as I've pointed out here many times, is that it really IS a 'two-tier' system, one for the rich and connected, and one for the plebes. Canada's self-styled 'elites' (not only am I not one of them, I wouldn't join the hypocrites if they asked) get privileged access to the system for 'rationed' care such as knee/hip replacements, MRI's, etc. because they know the doctor from their bridge club, or their kids go to the same school, or whatever. So they get the benefit of privileged access (which in the US system, you pay for with cash) without it costing them anything. Meanwhile, Canadian sheeple keep bleating "No two-tier health care, no two-tier health care" as they wait 2 years for granny's hip surgery. I suspect one of the big reasons for "health care privacy" up here is so that this little scam doesn't get uncovered.
It's important though that a safety-valve in the form of private options be available for two reasons. First, as noted above, gov't generally doesn't run things all that well and makes stupid decisions, so having entrepeneurs willing to pick up the slack helps everyone. Second, if the gov't system gets so bloated and inefficent that the private systems become more and more attractive, it should generate outrage and pressure for change. And this did happen to some extent - the long wait times in ER and for certain surgeries generated so much outcry that both were addressed to some extent.
Of course it's not perfect. Nothing on earth is. However, I'll suggest it's better than currently posited methods. For example, the Canadian system cares for a poor kid with congenital birth defects better than the old US system did; what private insurance firm would want to cover a risk like that? But it's not the kid's fault either. People don't fall through as many cracks here.
And......it's nice to see a sweet brown haired girl who hasn't bleached herself blonde. Nice to see the carpet match the drapes once in a while.
They don't usually have carpet anymore.
Maybe the French or the Italians...
"Danes Vote To Protect Sovereignty" Danes, you can vote what ever you want, it will change nothing!
http://www.synagoguerising.com/
Oh, wow. Yippee.
I mean, don't get me wrong; nice that an election actually went the way it would if I were in charge.
But ...
There's something seriously wrong with at least 47% of your population. And that's something no election is going to fix.
An exit from EU is only right. The EU is corporatism, fascism and German domination. Yes to trade, no to state.
"German domination".....is that codewords for "ZIO Jewbankster domination"?
An exit from EU is only right. The EU is corporatism, fascism and German domination. Yes to trade, no to state.
repeat
This sentiment of desperately trying to return to the world as it existed at the time of one's childhood - so pervasive across the West today - is but a delusional fantasy. And it will end as such. Nationalism and religion are what makes us lose our humanity. Rather grim times indeed.
FuuuuuuUUUUCCCKKKKK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Magnus!
seriously, you miscegenating, fucking, PC bag 'o NWO shit...Fuck OFF
Did you forget to take your medication this morning?
No medication will help there, I'm afraid.
Waaaay beyond help.
holgerdanske......you do know what kind of a ZH name you're flashing there.....right.....eller hva'...."holger"?
Eirik Magnus Larssen, I really don't understant what you are talking about. This was a referendum, with a turnout of some 74% and with a winning vote of 51%
as referendums go, it was horribly complex. no single phrase can really summarize the whole thing
the WSJ is quoted here to have been trying to do it with "voters were asked if (the elected Danish) parliament should have the power to opt-in on a total of 22 EU justice and home affairs laws, from which the small Nordic country has hitherto been exempt"
which is not complete, but ok, it's a level of complexity that can be reasonably discussed here
so what do we have here?
First, a Danish Constitution that mandates that seriously important questions have to be answered by... THE PEOPLE
Second, a Sovereign Country, Denmark, which has, through it's elected parliament and it's government (which is appointed by the parliament) negotiated with the other EU Countries that they get a whole series of opt-outs from the "EU Package". Those are exceptions from "further integration". Meaning the status quo is no further integration
Third, an elected Danish Parliament that poses a question in form of a Popular Referendum to the Danish People: may we... decide on your behalf on those... exceptions to further integration? And yes, the whole role of a Parliament is to decide on behalf of the People, then having everything, every each and single law going through a referendum has, historically, been a bit... impractical (where technology might change that in the future, edit: though I am still in favour of old-fashioned paper ballots only)
Fourth, a vote, from the People, 49% saying "you may" and 51% saying "thanks, but no, thanks, we prefer to be asked about each of those issues"
So what really happened is that there was a very slight majority For the current Status Quo
Which, in the case of Denmark, means Yes to the EU, No to the EUR, and Yes to the Opt-Outs already agreed with the other european countries
so your "sentiment of desperately trying to return to the world as it existed at the time of one's childhood" is a tad childish, imho
and your "Nationalism and religion are what makes us lose our humanity"...
to the first: are you a Danish Citizen? No? Then it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS
to the second: what do you propose? a UnHoly Crusade against Religion? very... illiberal. I would suggest to you to consider the tenets of Secularism: keep religion a private affair... and stay out of Other People's religious beliefs
Obviously, I am referring to the broader trend of Western electorates increasingly swinging to the right - and more often than not to the far-right and to xenophobic policies no less.
You consistently argue on behalf of nationalism and the religious right/religious conservatism. That is all that needs to be said about you. Despite of how you attempt to cast yourself you are not a centrist, let alone a voice of reason.
Eirik Magnus Larssen,
I - consistently, I hope - argue on behalf of centrism. the political middle. moderation
meaning that I accept that there are conservative issues to be addressed as much as liberal issues and yes, socialist issues
what I despise is extremism, and all extremists hate us and the center of politics
you, my dear big-harted equalitarian, are out of bounds and extreme when you deny nationalism even the right to exist
you, my dear big-harted equalitarian, are out of bounds and extreme when you deny religion even the right to exist
I may add it's not reasonable to even request billions to forsake their feelings toward their nations or their religions
and even more extreme to force them in such directions
Like a stopped clock, EML is right, but only accidentally, and not at all for the reasons he posits.
The best way to understand today is to go to your local book store, pick up a copy of "Understanding Media" by Macluhan, read it, and start to look at the world around you with these new tools.
The 60's were a time of upheaval because the so-called "TV" generation of the 50's - the first generation of mankind brought up by, babysat by, and educated by a tube - were entering adulthood. We are in a similar upheaval today because the new 'multi-media' generation - the first generation of mankind steeped in electronic toys and tools since birth - is entering adulthood. And, just as in the 60's, those who are unaware of the EFFECTS of media find these changes incomprehensible to them.
Since the printing press, the West has been living in a "literate" world, where the printed page was the dominant form of information transfer, up until the 1960's. Literacy, because the words are on a line, tends to promote linear logic and causality (if this, then that; if that, then another that..etc.). However, with our total immersion in electronic fields today - you are surrounded by them, for your phone, your iPad, your TV, your On-Star and Sirius equipped car, etc. - linearity and causality aren't so distinct; everything seems to happen at once.
And because those electronic fields are moving more or less at light speed, the entire planet now has a nervous system that responds to the slightest touch. For example, the little boy found on a beach a few months ago. No one denies it's awful, but think about what would have happened 100 years ago.. it's doubtful anyone in the West would have even heard about it, let alone see dozens of pictures. And, even if they had, the response would likely have been a few 'tsk-tsk's', and "ain't it awful?'s' over breakfast. Today, a single tweet races around the world in a second, jangling other 'neurons', many of which respond, thus jangling others, until we get the global furor over the Syrian refugees erupting in literally hours.
There is another effect at work as well. Literate cultures easily allow opposing views to exist. I can be sitting on the bus, reading ZH on my tablet, while the woman next to me is reading HuffPo. Even though our thoughts are highly inimical, we can sit next to each other, smile at each other, and I'll let her get off first. In an oral/electronic culture, this can't happen anymore. Imagine the effect on a choir if everyone else is singing Adeste Fideles, and you're singing Sex and Drugs and Rock and Roll. Oral and electronic cultures find it very hard to tolerate diversity. (This is where EML is so wrong; it's not religion and nationalism, it's the TRIBALISM that oral/electronic culture promotes that is at the heart of today's problems.)
I could go on, but that's the basic point. We are in the transition from the tatters of literate culture, through the passage of TV culture, into the new world of pervasive electronics. Seen from this view, the current uproar is both natural and to be expected. I wish I was bright enought to posit solutions; as it is, I can only point out the issue, and hope smarter minds can figure how to channel and control this new electronic man.
Was about time !
"Danes are saying yes to cooperation but no to relinquishing more sovereignty to Brussels,"
If only there were a good crisis those damn Danes will submit to the NWO.
Here's the answer to your question:
"So there you go. No access to centralized data on "motobike gangs," which means that if the Hell's Angels decide to stage an attack on Copenhagen, Denmark will be out of luck when it comes to shared intelligence. "
NATO will be GLADio to provide relief.
During the Scandinavian biker wars about a decade ago there actually was an attack with military rockets (manpads), and innocent civilians were killed. Turned out that the equipment for the attack was supplied by a police agent, and that the police knew all about it and did nothing to prevent it. No police officers were punished for this, but politicians promptly gave the police more investigative powers after the attack.
So they had a 3rd suspect that got away too? Imagine that.
So a 9/11 inspired false flag
It's not a gang, it's a club. The REAL 1%ers.
And fuck Hell's Angels. Pagans MC, bitchez.
Sweetness...
It's refreshing to see someone with my "lack of" color.
Immigrants repatriate honestly.
Illegal Aliens violate the laws of the country they're immigrating to, without respecting VALUES, of those that so graciously share their land.
Denmark is one of my favorite countries but sadly the zios are active there too. Throw the f**king EU and islamo invaders out.
Freddie, if you tell me that you don't watch TV?
You do it in "moderation"?
Muzzy go home!
Dear serfs:
Thanks for voting. We're going ahead with integration, and we won't tell you what we're doing.
- Your Leaders
This is just the first crack. Election by election the EU grand experiment is going to fall apart completely. And good riddance. Funny how France is staging 1500 troops in Paris... but not one soldier in Calais where rabid migrants roam free like wild animals threatening commerce between Britain and the continent on a daily basis. This is all coming to a fiery end. If anyone is capable of decapitating their leaders, it's the French. Break out the guillotines....
Nope -- the French still think that the Revolution was a good thing. They cannot admit that the FR was planned and instigated by central bankers on the pretext of freedom, and that The Terror kept the French in their places while the Kingdom of France morphed into La Republique. Their identity has been systematically diluted by their leaders to officially manageable levels. Any really ethnic French movements will get monitored and destroyed.
They know something is wrong, but they have nowhere to turn since their leaders are loyal to the EU and treat France like a commodity in itself. The population has been conditioned to .gov providing for them in every way, like parents, and they don't understand why their parents will not protect them. They cannot accept that they are expendable pawns in a bigger game.
But for tonight there is denmark!
Not a lot of positives coming out of Denmark lately...not since the I Am Curious Yellow era. Grandpa missed his passage on the Titanic, and came on the next boat, or I would be a 'gentleman farmer' on .25 acre or somesuch.
Just to nitpick: I am Curious Yellow was a Swedish film, not a Danish one.
Our DCOM in Kabul was a Dane. Good enough guy but he seemed to resent our friendlier relationship with the Polish element. Maybe he knew they kept a baby pool filled with homemade spirits.
The EU lacks democratic legitimacy.
And whenever Europe's citizens are allowed to vote on EU policy, they vote against the EU and in support of retaining national sovereignty.
The writing is on the wall - Europe's citizens want to cooperate on many things, but they will not submit to a fascist regime in Washington DC nor one in Brussels
With King Diamond as leader of all Danes, there is no need for shared Europol intelligence. All Denmark's enemies will fear him and his mic stand made out of human bones. The King in the North! (Along with Putin, of course.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAjMikL9crs
"I was born in the cemetery
Under the sign of the moon
Raised from my grave by the dead
I was made a mercenary
In the legions of hell
Now I'm king of pain, I'm insane
You know my only pleasure
Is to hear you cry
I'd love to hear you cry
I'd love to feel you die
And I'll be the first
To watch your funeral
And I'll be the last to leave
I'd love to hear you cry"
?
There's more to Denmark than wooden shoes and dykes. They make stinky cheese that tastes good.
dykes??
He thinks the Netherlands is a Copenhagen suburb
Um, you are thinking about the Netherlands... Holland. Denmark is a beautiful little country with georgeous women, great food (yes, including cheese), and bicycles everywhere. But few, if any dikes... dykes, maybe, but no dikes...
The Danish government needs to have this referendum decided in a California court so that one idiot can overturn the ballot
or the Birthplace of Democracy - GREECE!
Things are changing across the world, very fast. This month is going to be a doozy.
“The result of the election is based on a general skepticism toward the EU,” PM Lars Løkke Rasmussen said.
This is what most politicians here in Denmark are saying right now, and it clearly shows how disconnected they have become from the people of Denmark. The "no" vote is mainly because people here in Denmark no longer trust the Danish politicians in matters regarding the European Union.
They would really like to avoid these referendums and ignore what people here want, but cannot due to our constitution demanding referendums when we give up soverenity.
Back in 1992 we had a similar vote about the Maastricht Treaty. At that time EU was called the European Community, and was more about independent countries cooperating than the current European Union. There was a lot of worry that this treaty would make the European Community evolve into a federal-like union, and the polls whowed that the Danish people did not like it. Our PM at that time is famous for stating during the referendum campaign that "This will not be a union. The union is as dead as a rock". People were told that if the referendum said "no", Denmark would be thrown out of the European Community, and that trade with the other countries in the EC would stop. The people voted "no".
Denmark was not thrown out of the European Community, and nothing really happened, except that a new deal with the EC was negotiated. This deal included Denmark not participating in the Maastricht treaty on four key points. One of the key points was about participating in the Euro. Another key point was about participating in a binding judicial cooperation, where Denmark would have to throw a dane into jail if a judge in another European country decided so. In 1993 this modified Maastricht treaty was accepted by a referendum. The day after this referendum all politicians and media began to refer to what had been called the European Community as the European Union.
Later there was another referendum about the Euro, where politicians tried to make the Danes accept the Euro, and give up their own currency. Here politicians said what voting "no" would mean that the interest rate here in Denmark would be a lot higher than in the Euro-zone, and that companies would suffer and unemployment rise. The vote was "no", and since then both interest rate and unemployment has been lower in Denmark than in the Euro-zone most of the time.
Today we voted on the second key point mentioned above: The binding cooperation in justice and home affairs. This was quite tricky for our politicians, as they knew several key points here would be totally unacceptable to the people of Denmark. So they could not call for a referendum to enter this cooperation. Instead they called for a referendum that would give the politicians the power to enter any parts of this cooperation without a referendum, and then they gave a solumn (but non-binding) promise that they - or any politicians at a later time - would never enter the parts of this cooperation that it was clear the voters could not accept. During the campain politicians told people that if the vote was "no", we would be cut off from all police cooperation with other European countries, and that pedophiles and terrorists would freely roam our streats as a result of that.
We may have stupid politicians here in Denmark, but the people in Denmark are not stupid.
Well said.
Good for you! In the Netherlands there will a referendum on the EU Stabilization and Association Agreement (SAA) with Ukraine. It is non binding but the parties in parliament say they will respect it (but I don't trust them). The referendum is really about winning back democracy and distrusting the EU. The government is currently doing everything to sabotage the vote but limiting a number of polling stations and reducing budgets for campaign organizations.
Most people in Europe are for European cooperation but many do not trust the EU.
+1 excellent thread. "Most people in Europe are for European cooperation but many do not trust the EU..."
... and, if I may add to the results on this horribly complex referendum in Denmark... many do also not trust their own parliaments with powers they would prefer to keep to the People and to direct democratic decisions like referenda
note in this the simplification that so many bring here, including Tyler with his hyperbolic "state of dis-union" and "sacred Schengen" and "the EU is doomed, doomed"
wherever european Peoples get to vote, they vote yes to european cooperation, particularly the small countries which are aware of the limits they have when tackling greater issues of global scape
wherever european Peoples get to vote, they vote yes or no, depending on the issue, to european "solidarity"
wherever european Peoples get to vote, they vote no to automatic power grabs by both the EU and their own national political systems, including their parliaments
the writing on the wall is clear: more direct democracy at country level, for both national and EU issues
Exactly, that is what these referendums are about. Hence the reason why national parliaments and the EU don't like them or want them. Europeans are all in favor for European cooperation but not for some EU power grab.
Btw, the organizers of the referendum in the Netherlands have asked for the help of the OSCE because the national and municipal governments are doing everything to sabotage the vote (like limiting the number of polling stations and the designated budget). Their excuse for doing this is that "referendums always have less voters than normal elections" which is a fraud because it is exactly the opposite: referendums in NL always have big voter show up than normal elections. That is why they fear the vote. Unlike what they usually tell you ("make use of your democratic right") politicians prefer low voters show up because that makes the outcome more predictable. They don't like the 'floating voter'. Referendums work. Look at Switzerland which is more of a democracy then many EU countries.
+1, and Switzerland... is still actually the template of what the EU ought to aspire to perhaps become, as a "maximum solution"... in a few centuries
in a class room at some university ..all this matters for your exam..in the real world only force and wealth matter..many in the EU forget over your long history: Organized criminals control your governments (kings and such and now banksters and such) .try passing a referendum or laws that prohibit the very power structure at the core of the EU and national .govs.
we are no better off across the pond. until criminals are seen for who and what they are..(one law for us - no controlling legal authority for them) you can have any system you desire..they are above it.
"in the real world only force and wealth matter" possible, yes. meanwhile, Our Sovereign Peoples have some force (and wealth)
"Organized criminals control your governments (kings and such and now banksters and such)". correction: they have some influence
"try passing a referendum or laws that prohibit the very power structure at the core of the EU and national .govs."
my argument here is that the Danish People just did exactly that. keeping restrictions on their own parliament and on it's dealings with "the EU"
"we are no better off across the pond" you have a completely different set of issues. your affair. fix it without getting into this constant "it's the same everywhere"
one easy way to look at it: count how many revolutions and civil wars we had here and how many you had. You have a count of... two. Our count is a few magnitudes higher
again: do not compare the US and the EU... lightly. or superficially
some here look from some lofty brussel's office, and see a world they desire..
(or more accurately a world they are paid to see)
infact that world is not real.
we hear of how well the muslim's are integrated into the EU, then terror hits again and again. (those who told us these lies, then hide for a time and come back when other news takes center stage- without a mea culpa without a misstep, back to telling us all how wonderful EU land is - we are not that gullible on ZH)
we hear of an EU that does not have the force of .gov but does, of independent countries that somehow must follow all the EU rules at the same time they can leave much like S carolina could leave the union)
so you are again accusing me to be in a lofty paid Brussel's office?
"we hear of how well the muslim's are integrated into the EU, then terror hits again and again" who tells you that? me?
there are, indeed, millions of quite well integrated Muslims, in Europe. Turks in Germany and Austria, for example. you forget that it does not take many people for terror
further, I could point out that terror, in Europe, is... something that never really left us since the Age Of Anarchic Bombings and Assassinations in the 19th Century
we have a completely different mental approach to terror, and way more historic experience in handling it politically and otherwise
South Carolina, again, is not a sovereign country, it does not have an army or a fleet, is not sending a carrier to Syria with a South Carolina flag on it
meanwhile, yes, "the EU" is about as powerful, in regard to force, as perhaps South Carolina
you said that power matters, don't you? yes, "the EU" is not a military "power player", it's sovereign members... are. and they have the police to match that
terror never left europe, perhaps because criminals have remained the power structure of europe all these long years.. and terror is an act of weak people against the oligarchs : criminals kings and queens and now the banksters and financial criminals, where there are many laws and regulations of the people ..the countries are run by criminal gangs..see mencken
“All the extravagance and incompetence of our present Government is due, in the main, to lawyers, and, in part at least, to good ones. They are responsible for nine-tenths of the useless and vicious laws that now clutter the statute-books, and for all the evils that go with the vain attempt to enforce them. Every Federal judge is a lawyer. So are most Congressmen. Every invasion of the plain rights of the citizens has a lawyer behind it. If all lawyers were hanged tomorrow, and their bones sold to a mah jong factory, we’d be freer and safer, and our taxes would be reduced by almost a half.”
overmed, don't take it personally, but I have to give one heartfelt response to this: FUCK
you do not know enough about terror here to say this kind of things
I have had family, friends and business associates being kidnapped and/or killed by terrorists, and this going back to the 70's
you are full of theories about criminals, kings, oligarchs, governments, this is fine
but terror? what the FUCK do you know about terror? have you ever faced a terrorist? I have
sorry, again, don't take it personally but you know shit about real terrorism, in my very humblest opinion
Power is not monolitic. And there is soft power and hard power. Government, State and Deep State. Plus 'invisible hands'. That does not mean that people are powerless. But people are lulled into thinking that the ones in power know what is good for you and that they act in your interest. People are starting to wake up from that slumber. Government is an holder of force and a change of government can help to change the other holders of power. In order to prevent that some forces will do anything to prevent that such as....oh, I don't know, calling a state of emergency or suspension of the constitution?
"parties in parliament say they will respect it"
Yes, but I bet they will not listen to the outcome..
A referendum on whether to adopt the Euro currency was held in only two countries: Denmark and Sweden. Both said no.
A referendum on the EU constitution was held in only two countries: the Netherlands and France. Both said overwhelmingly No. Then they polished it here and there and called it a treaty instead of a constitution and once of a sudden there was no need for a referendum anymore. That is deceiving the voter.
Is DNA destiny? I'm starting to think it is.
Valhalla. Viking.
Defy the moneychangers.
Oh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normans
All your Danes are belong to us.
The EU has a recipe to deal with this: just vote again until it passes.
...or import more voters
Better news would be the disintegration of NATO until only the US and Turkey are left.
It gets better:
Sweden seeks emergency power to halt Danish bridge trafficMinister says Öresund road bridge between Copenhagen and Malmö may be shut in emergencies under proposed security legislation
The Öresund bridge, linking Denmark’s capital, Copenhagen, with Sweden’s third largest city, Malmö, is extensively used by commuters as well as by freight traffic. About 20,000 motor vehicles cross it daily.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/dec/03/swedish-government-proposes...
trader1
No, the bridge is used by thousands of Muzzies daily to get to Sweden for benefits and rape.
Ask France about the centralized data base.
While they were collecting info on bikers they ignored all the other gangs. A large bureaucracy is never Proactive it's just Reactive
Good news. End the EU.
...and we shall say Ni! again to you if you do not appease us
Next terror attack: Copenhagen!
As for the consequences of preserving the opt-out, Denmark will now be cut off from critical information given last week's changes to the role of the European police agency. Danes "won't have immediate access to Europol registers on foreign fighters in Syria, criminal motorbike gangs, etc.,"
This is almost the most stupiest thing i have ever heared.
"To be sure, just about the last thing the EU needed was another blow to European solidarity. "
Oh I don't know - I'd say the Europeans have plenty of solidarity - in rejecting the EU that is.
"If the Denmark vote tells us anything, it's that terrorists need not waste time attacking Europe - it's going to fall apart on its own. "
The terrorists already did their part to destabilize Europe - by entering it in their hundreds of thousands.
Funny how the first chick doesn't look very danish. They are very blonde, blue eyed and hot.
The one doing the Kali tounge thing ? she looks like a M. Easterner.
for the gray men of brussel's :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j13oJajXx0M
I congratulate all Danes.
And on behalve of many Dutch citizens.
If permitted they would do the same and many here in Netherlands envy the Danmark.
It is a significant victory for Danmark and Danish voters and Dutch citizens who discover the reality of an EU being the puppets of Multinationals & Banks ONLY.
and this is an extreme simplification: "the reality of an EU being the puppets of Multinationals & Banks ONLY"
yes, Brussels is the mud-park of multinational lobbyism. as per design, I may add. (the same design that led to the ancient Roman Cloaca Maxima)
no, if you look a bit more closely, most multinationals are constantly moaning about the EU not being nice enough to them
evidence in the future: the TTIP treaty. if it passes, you have an important point. if it does not, you have the opposite
yes, megabanks and european regional banks try to influence and lobby "the EU"
evidence in the past: the EU law that put a cap on Banker Bonuses. The City of London is still busy circumventing this law
further evidence: Obama telling Cameron that he has to keep the UK in the EU, so that the US keeps "a gateway to the EU"
meanwhile... you Dutch have the most important trade harbour of the continent, and are one of the countries that was always historically is poised to profit most from economic integration as such, and pushing most for it. so don't put it in a way that suggests you are like a small island on the other side of the planet, you are at the very center of those european affairs
EU has nothing to do with economic integration. Forget Propaganda
That is brought to you by Media and is called EU-Propaganda.
Economic Financial data: a minority of 12 % in Netherlands have benefited from being an EU country.
Dutch citizens taxed extra overtaxed and Small Companies- MKB small and medium busineses are long term loosers.
Dutch pay EU- Brussles 11 billion Euros a year. 11 Bilion.
Have to accept 11.000 fugitives a month. Makes 132.000 a year 2015 . All of them are on social security of 700 a month.
Who pays all......
EU is rapidly spiriling Dutch businesses and citizens to lowest level-amount money- savings--
and property since 1998.
So Eu-Brussels and ECB Frankfurt are very happy- thrive on the Sheeple-Dutch
a lot of garbled arguments, I fear
yes, there is indeed a lot of pro-EU propaganda. there are, after all, a lot of pro-EU supporters
but take this, for example: "Dutch citizens taxed extra overtaxed and Small Companies- MKB small and medium busineses are long term loosers"
that's the elected Dutch Parliament passing those tax laws. nobody in Brussels says how to tax the Dutch, that's a Dutch national and internal affair
same for your own Dutch real estate quagmire
DuchTax laws are directly Eu Brussels originated - checked - approved.
Not one comes from Dutch National Goverment. Only disguised as..... from them.
Besides 86 % of all laws - Rules and - Regulations are Eu Brussels of origin-controlled -and approved
Dreaming with wide open eyes is nice but reality is very diifferent. Just facts and Data.
Same in Danmark Belgium a.o. countries. Sovereighnity is for 86% lost <> national Dutch Debt grow extraordinary.
Dutch are robbbed call it dispossed of their saved money rapidly as well. So pension are lowered by an average 6 % a year.and ever increasing. Pensionars cannot defend nor hardly voiced .
EU Brussles .... A large bureaucracy is not Proactive it's Reactive.
Have 57.000 employees of which many have 42.000euro net a month.
Dutch have to pay 11 billion a year to EU-Brussles. 11 Billion.
11 Billion and gets their so called '...protection from Terrorism.... in return
EU Brussles .... A large bureaucracy is not Proactive it's Reactive.
Have 57.000 employees of which many have 42.000 euro net a month. I repeat 42.000 Netto Month.
Dutch have to pay 11 billion a year to Eu-Brussles while. Every Luxemburg citizen receives 2000 a year Nett from Brussles. Just facts and data. Hidden from general sheeple...meaning if published severly punished.
Better not have a Dane read this as well. He'll party. And many nights long....rightly so.
Danmark did not accept an Euro.. what a blessing financially economonically socially.
"DuchTax laws are directly Eu Brussels originated - checked - approved. "
wrong. The Netherlands did sign the Pact, yes. It's a Treaty, btw. meaning The Netherlands could, if it's parliament votes on it, exit this treaty
but it's still all about balanced budgets
this means the Netherlands can raise taxes as it sees fit and allocate expenditures as it sees fit
this means that the Dutch parliament could decide to allocate less expenditures and so have less need to raise taxes
further, the EU does not protect anybody from terrorism
you won't be a functional Dutch Citizen, ever, if you don't dispel this little fog of what the EU is and what it isn't
and some of your weasel politicians are very busy trying to point to the EU what they don't want you to think it's their responsibility, on both sides of the "EU argument"
if you want the Netherlands to exit the EUR, you don't have to ask Brussels or Frankfurt for that, you have to force the Den Haag parliament to do that
More evidence: the EC dropped an investigation into price fixing by big financial institutions regarding the price of CDS. They could not come up with anything....sure.
More on lobbying of the EC at corporateeurope.org
Max perhaps you missed:
"Rasmussen said he now would have talks with European Council President Donald Tusk and European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker aimed at reaching so-called parallel agreements that would allow Denmark to continue cooperation with Europol, among others," AP says. "
just like the Irish vote they (.gov) will just do it anyway..voting matters ...LOL
voting does not matter... on blogs, "social media" and some countries
if your problem with voting is that it does not matter in your country... well, then you have already defined the problem
question is: are you sure you want the democratic vote to matter, in general and specifically in your country? not everybody does, you know?
Monsanto is pissed. They had it all set (in the EU ministers wallets) to cram GM foods into all of Europe via Brussels acceptance and now some damn country has the audacity to say HELL NO!!!
it is a bit more complicated then that
in europe we have two "filters" against Monsanto's raids: the EU and the Sovereign Countries
the EU has currently a list of 50 GMO crops that are allowed... IF the country allows them
Poland, for example, allows none
Yes but then TTIP comes along and then companies can take governments to private commercial 'arbitrage courts' in order to either have national legislation overturned or to demand damages.
That is all negotiated in secret and when adopted the full text will remain undisclosed for a long time. And it will be final. +3 million Europeans signed a petition against it. You Ghordius can still sign: stop-ttip.org
+1 Joe A. I am quietly proud of being one of the earliest supporters of stop-ttip.org
+1
Well, that makes two then :-)
Oh sheet the sheep are refusing to copulate with the wolves...what are the chosen racer "shepherds" gonna do now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ
How about the chosen racers opening up occupied, apartheid Palestine to the zillions of Muslim victims of USSA's multiple judaic orchestrated bouts of carnage....Geddit?
P.S. gangs of tatooed I$I$ Bandidos and Satan's Spawn "angels" are storming on Honda motor sickles towards the ex Viking nation as we speak..but see if teutonic NSA GESTAPO agent Mutti gives a sheeeet!
It's soon to be winter in Europe. Leave the invaders outside in the elements and do not feed them. They will just gradually fall into a deep sleep and freeze to death. It is a very humane way to dispose of them. Then just grind them up with wood chippers and use them for fertilizer.
Pig feed?
Any exit from EUBrussels & Euro is sovereighn right.
http://www.destaatsschuldmeter.nl/
Danmark Goverment debts
Grafics show Dutch National Debt rise since entrancen EU Brussles ECB/Euro 2002.
So who pays the interest... how much and why......?
exactly. staying or leaving the EU, staying or leaving the EUR is indeed a sovereign right... of The Netherlands, for example
now, what are you doing in order to convince your co-sovereigns to leave the EU and/or the EUR?
writing on English-speaking blogs full of people that have little knowledge of your Dutch internal issues does not count as "doing something about it"
get a serious knowledge of what is The Netherlands, what is the EU, and then get out and talk with people in order to convince them
meanwhile, you were moaning above about too high taxes, and here you moan about a too high Dutch National Debt
what are your views on balanced budgets? you know, the very item of the Stability Pact?
Compare with Denmark
NOT in the euro and see the difference in nat. Debt
http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/denmark a.o.
105 euro -115$ per seconde interest
The EU and NATO should be dismanteled, two sides of the same evil coin.
I'll bet they won't share intelligence.
Danish wimmin be ugly...