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Draghi Holds Water Pistol Press Party - Live Feed

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Contrary to what you might have read over at FT, Mario Draghi met (but certainly did not exceed) market expectations for a depo cut, moving 10 bps further into NIRP-dom in a desperate attempt to get inflation moving in the "right" direction and get a leg up in the global currency wars. Unfortunately, the market was looking for more and so, the EUR surged after the announcement. 

Now, the fireworks can begin as the market will be glued to the presser in hopes Draghi will make up for not going with a 20 bps cut by over-delivering on QE expansion/extension.

  • ECB TO EXTEND ASSET-BUYING PROGRAM TO AT LEAST MARCH 2017
  • DRAGHI SAYS ECB WILL EXTEND QE UNTIL MARCH 2017 OR BEYOND
  • DRAGHI: ECB WILL REINVEST PRINCIPLE PAYMENTS AS LONG AS NEEDED
  • ECB TO BROADEN ASSET-BUYING PROGRAM TO INCLUDE REGIONAL DEBT (Munis!!)
  • DRAGHI SAYS STAFF PROJECTIONS SIGNAL DOWNSIDE INFLATION RISKS
  • EUR FRESH HIGH OVER 1.0800 AS ECB QE EXTENDED, NOT INCREASED
  • DRAGHI SAYS ECB ABLE, WILLING TO ACT WITH ALL TOOLS IF NEEDED

Make no mistake, Draghi has under-delivered just as we and others warned he might. 10 bps on the depo rate is underwhelming, especially in light of the fact that the "leaked" two-tiered NIRP regime idea seemed to telegraph a larger cut. Meanwhile, no expansion of PSPP is a major disappointment, as most seemed to be looking for at least a €15 billion increase in the monthly pace of purchases. Finally, the six month extension of the program was really the bare minimum Draghi could have announced without triggering a veritable revolt from a spoiled market.

This is undoubtedly a relief for the Riksbank, the Nationalbank, and the SNB as it takes some of the pressure off in terms of having to cut further.

(live feed)

 

Full opening statement:

Ladies and gentlemen, the Vice-President and I are very pleased to welcome you to our press conference. We will now report on the outcome of today’s meeting of the Governing Council, which was also attended by the Commission Vice-President, Mr Dombrovskis.

Based on our regular economic and monetary analyses, we today conducted a thorough assessment of the strength and persistence of the factors that are currently slowing the return of inflation to levels below, but close to, 2% in the medium term and re-examined the degree of monetary accommodation. As a result, the Governing Council took the following decisions in the pursuit of its price stability objective:

First, as regards the key ECB interest rates, we decided to lower the interest rate on the deposit facility by 10 basis points to -0.30%. The interest rate on the main refinancing operations and the rate on the marginal lending facility will remain unchanged at their current levels of 0.05% and 0.30% respectively.

Second, as regards non-standard monetary policy measures, we decided to extend the asset purchase programme (APP). The monthly purchases of €60 billion under the APP are now intended to run until the end of March 2017, or beyond, if necessary, and in any case until the Governing Council sees a sustained adjustment in the path of inflation consistent with its aim of achieving inflation rates below, but close to, 2% over the medium term.

Third, we decided to reinvest the principal payments on the securities purchased under the APP as they mature, for as long as necessary. This will contribute both to favourable liquidity conditions and to an appropriate monetary policy stance. The technical details will be communicated in due time.

Fourth, we decided to include, in the public sector purchase programme, euro-denominated marketable debt instruments issued by regional and local governments located in the euro area in the list of assets that are eligible for regular purchases by the respective national central banks.

Fifth, we decided to continue conducting the main refinancing operations and three-month longer-term refinancing operations as fixed rate tender procedures with full allotment for as long as necessary, and at least until the end of the last reserve maintenance period of 2017.

Today’s decisions were taken in order to secure a return of inflation rates towards levels that are below, but close to, 2% and thereby to anchor medium-term inflation expectations. The latest staff projections incorporate the favourable financial market developments following our last monetary policy meeting. They still indicate continued downside risks to the inflation outlook and slightly weaker inflation dynamics than previously expected. This follows downward revisions in earlier projection exercises. The persistence of low inflation rates reflects sizeable economic slack weighing on domestic price pressures and headwinds from the external environment.

Our new measures will ensure accommodative financial conditions and further strengthen the substantial easing impact of the measures taken since June 2014, which have had significant positive effects on financing conditions, credit and the real economy. Today’s decisions also reinforce the momentum of the euro area’s economic recovery and strengthen its resilience against recent global economic shocks. The Governing Council will closely monitor the evolution in the outlook for price stability and, if warranted, is willing and able to act by using all the instruments available within its mandate in order to maintain an appropriate degree of monetary accommodation. In particular, the Governing Council recalls that the APP provides sufficient flexibility in terms of adjusting its size, composition and duration.

Let me now explain our assessment in greater detail, starting with the economic analysis. Euro area real GDP increased by 0.3%, quarter on quarter, in the third quarter of 2015, following a rise of 0.4% in the previous quarter, most likely on account of a continued positive contribution from consumption alongside more muted developments in investment and exports. The most recent survey indicators point to ongoing real GDP growth in the final quarter of the year. Looking ahead, we expect the economic recovery to proceed. Domestic demand should be further supported by our monetary policy measures and their favourable impact on financial conditions, as well as by the earlier progress made with fiscal consolidation and structural reforms. Moreover, low oil prices should provide support for households’ real disposable income and corporate profitability and, therefore, private consumption and investment. In addition, government expenditure is likely to increase in some parts of the euro area, reflecting measures in support of refugees. However, the economic recovery in the euro area continues to be dampened by subdued growth prospects in emerging markets and moderate global trade, the necessary balance sheet adjustments in a number of sectors and the sluggish pace of implementation of structural reforms.

This outlook is broadly reflected in the December 2015 Eurosystem staff macroeconomic projections for the euro area, which foresee annual real GDP increasing by 1.5% in 2015, 1.7% in 2016 and 1.9% in 2017. Compared with the September 2015 ECB staff macroeconomic projections, the prospects for real GDP growth are broadly unchanged.

The risks to the euro area growth outlook relate in particular to the heightened uncertainties regarding developments in the global economy as well as to broader geopolitical risks. These risks have the potential to weigh on global growth and foreign demand for euro area exports and on confidence more widely.

According to Eurostat’s flash estimate, euro area annual HICP inflation was 0.1% in November 2015, unchanged from October but lower than expected. This reflected somewhat weaker price increases in services and industrial goods, mainly compensated for by a less negative contribution from energy prices. On the basis of the information available and current oil futures prices, annual HICP inflation rates are expected to rise at the turn of the year, mainly on account of base effects associated with the fall in oil prices in late 2014. During 2016 and 2017, inflation rates are foreseen to pick up further, supported by our previous monetary policy measures – and supplemented by those announced today – the expected economic recovery, and the pass-through of past declines in the euro exchange rate. The Governing Council will closely monitor the evolution of inflation rates over the period ahead.

This broad pattern is also reflected in the December 2015 Eurosystem staff macroeconomic projections for the euro area, which foresee annual HICP inflation at 0.1% in 2015, 1.0% in 2016 and 1.6% in 2017. In comparison with the September 2015 ECB staff macroeconomic projections, the outlook for HICP inflation has been revised down slightly.

Turning to the monetary analysis, recent data confirm solid growth in broad money (M3), with the annual rate of growth of M3 increasing to 5.3% in October 2015 from 4.9% in September. Annual growth in M3 continues to be mainly supported by its most liquid components, with the narrow monetary aggregate M1 growing at an annual rate of 11.8% in October, after 11.7% in September.

Loan dynamics continued the path of gradual recovery observed since the beginning of 2014. The annual rate of change of loans to non-financial corporations (adjusted for loan sales and securitisation) increased to 0.6% in October, up from 0.1% in September. Despite these improvements, developments in loans to enterprises continue to reflect the lagged relationship with the business cycle, credit risk and the ongoing adjustment of financial and non-financial sector balance sheets. The annual growth rate of loans to households (adjusted for loan sales and securitisation) increased to 1.2% in October, compared with 1.1% in September. Overall, the monetary policy measures in place since June 2014 have clearly improved borrowing conditions for both firms and households and credit flows across the euro area.

To sum up, a cross-check of the outcome of the economic analysis with the signals coming from the monetary analysis confirmed the need for further monetary stimulus in order to secure a return of inflation rates towards levels that are below, but close to, 2%.

Monetary policy is focused on maintaining price stability over the medium term and its accommodative stance supports economic activity. However, in order to reap the full benefits from our monetary policy measures, other policy areas must contribute decisively. Given continued high structural unemployment and low potential output growth in the euro area, the ongoing cyclical recovery should be supported by effective structural policies. In particular, actions to improve the business environment, including the provision of an adequate public infrastructure, are vital to increase productive investment, boost job creation and raise productivity. The swift and effective implementation of structural reforms, in an environment of accommodative monetary policy, will not only lead to higher sustainable economic growth in the euro area but will also raise expectations of permanently higher incomes and accelerate the beneficial effects of reforms, thereby making the euro area more resilient to global shocks. Fiscal policies should support the economic recovery, while remaining in compliance with the fiscal rules of the European Union. Full and consistent implementation of the Stability and Growth Pact is crucial for confidence in our fiscal framework. At the same time, all countries should strive for a more growth-friendly composition of fiscal policies.

 

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Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:27 | 6870068 Racer
Racer's picture

Negative interest rates = Criminal

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:31 | 6870073 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Nobody is forcing you to lend, or to borrow.

 

Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

 

http://shakespeare.mit.edu/hamlet/hamlet.1.3.html

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:38 | 6870091 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I like the Skipper's version of Polonius best:

http://youtu.be/bXId5jOTxdg

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:46 | 6870113 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

Green arrow, Doctor, for that Dawn Wells reference.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:49 | 6870128 VinceFostersGhost
VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

I actually caught 5 seconds of that press conference.

 

Yeah....that's 5 seconds gone forever.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:57 | 6870131 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

That last five seconds is quite sad.

At the same time, all countries should strive for a more growth-friendly composition of fiscal policies.

Regardless of the costs.

So it is written (by unelected banker scum); so it is done.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:59 | 6870158 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"regardless of the cost" -> not quite. note that he mentions the "Stability Pact", i.e. balanced budgets (or a reasonable approximation of them)

but take for example the UK, which is not bound by the Pact, and does not use the EUR

the Westminster Parliament headed by Cameron slashed 2% from social spending and added 2% to military spending. question: is this "growth friendly", neutral or the opposite?

(he is still an appointed central banker. Berlusconi and Sarkozy had a looooong row and many, many phone calls until they agreed on Draghi)

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:11 | 6870194 walküre
walküre's picture

Great. Both Berlusconi and Sarko were assholes and did shit for the people in their country. Both were friends to the royalty and they did well however.

100 families in Italy own 95% of the nation's wealth. I'm sure it is similar in France.

So why are we stuck with this bloody ex Goldmanite kosher friendly banker scum for all Europe?

Mark my words, the countries in the East will leave the EU and the Euro because of EU policies and practices that are dominated by old Euro royalty in Italy and France.

Germany should have walked long ago but Merkel is a subversive plant to destroy Germany from within so the royalty in Italy and France can feast on the German corps.

Centuries of history and old relationships in Europe don't just disappear because we have "democracy".

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:32 | 6870268 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"Both were friends to the royalty"... are you drunk? which royalty?

"100 families in Italy own 95% of the nation's wealth. I'm sure it is similar in France." nope. in both cases, it's roughly 20% of the population holding 80% of the nation's wealth. it takes a completely different set of policies to achieve what has been "achieved" in the UK and US. and the way to that is to destroy the SME substrate of the economy to the greater glory of the megacorps

goldmanite, yes. Jew... no. sorry, Draghi is really not a Jew

"Mark my words, the countries in the East will leave the EU and the Euro..." well, if they want to leave the EU, it's their business and their privilege. meanwhile, most of them aren't in the EUR, or eurozone if you want the proper word

"...by old Euro royalty in Italy and France..." what does this even mean?

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:20 | 6870547 walküre
walküre's picture

Mario Draghi - Jewish

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/The-50-most-influentia...

14. Stanley Fischer, Vice chairman of the US Federal Reserve Bank

Fischer was voted Central Bank Governor of the Year in 2010. Yet even since his departure from Israel, he has continued to make waves.

The former MIT professor, who mentored future central bankers including former United States Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke and European Central Bank President Mario Draghi, has not fallen off the map since his departure from the Bank of Israel.

Sure, Fed's Fisher just happened to mentor a non-Jew before that guy happened to become the 2nd most influential central banker on the planet of this time...

Disclaimer.. when you click the link the Jids are probably tracking your IP

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 12:00 | 6870839 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

so I am too a Jew because one of my professors in university was a Jew? nope, Draghi is not a Jew

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 14:04 | 6871568 Frederico
Frederico's picture

Dude, please stop. 

Drahgi is the son of Carlo Draghi, a prominent Italian banker, and Gilda Mancini.

Both Draghi and Mancini are powerful and old Italian families.

Check it up.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:08 | 6870191 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Harold Heckuba rocks!

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:28 | 6870254 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

CHRISTMAS WITH MARIO

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:30 | 6870075 Truther
Truther's picture

This son of a bitch should be kicked in the balls, along with other financial criminals.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:14 | 6870209 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

Good idea, but muppet-type puppets like him don't have balls.  

Did you see him talk? As empty as a puppet. (Watch with sound off.)

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:20 | 6870221 Truther
Truther's picture

Squirming isn't he?

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:02 | 6870168 scubapro
scubapro's picture

 

like saying "were going to charge you to use your national currency, the money we created".   

on the way to the CBs owning the planet, I ll need to pick up a copy of 'the successfull sharecropper'

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:05 | 6870177 Klemens
Klemens's picture

european interest rates: http://pigbonds.info/

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:30 | 6870077 Ghostdog
Ghostdog's picture

Hey Draghi, spread those legs and show us your cunt

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:36 | 6870093 Truther
Truther's picture

Congrats European mates, you most likely just lost 10% of your fiat toilet paper deposits. Just because this fucking moron says so.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:30 | 6870078 The Pope
The Pope's picture

Water PISS tols

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:30 | 6870080 thepigman
thepigman's picture

Bwahahahaha....fixing a basket case with negative rates always works!!!!!

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:33 | 6870086 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Forget the fact that he "only cut" 10 bps, think about the absurdity the fact that the Euro is surging at all when you lose money just to own the fucking things.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:07 | 6870183 herkomilchen
herkomilchen's picture

It's surging because everyone will be losing less than he thought he'd be losing.  Why use a loser NIRP currency like the Euro?  Because people need stuff to live and most productive people making that stuff in Europe are statists who will only accept Euros for trade.  But you knew all that!

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:37 | 6870094 Racer
Racer's picture

The Dax is very disappointed

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:39 | 6870100 Truther
Truther's picture

Draghi:"We just fucked you over again, expect paper IOUs shortly, but don't fucking dream of getting shit out of my ass."

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:43 | 6870111 JamaicaJim
JamaicaJim's picture

..and the Euro surges.....Jesus fuck me

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:44 | 6870117 BeaverCream
BeaverCream's picture

NIRP is like stopping a Heroin addict from shooting up by hitting them over head with the hammer and knocking them out cold.  You can do it a few times, eventually you're gonna hit em too hard and they're gonna die.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:44 | 6870119 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

We free marketed some people !

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:45 | 6870122 Racer
Racer's picture

Draghi expects inflation to pick up

 

Errr, Look at Japan moron

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:47 | 6870125 Batman11
Batman11's picture

Every Central Banker has a tool box with one tool in it, monetary policy.

They can loosen or tighten monetary policy.

How this works for the divergent economies of the Euro-zone is a mystery.

We can see how monetary policy has been geared to Germany and crushed the Club Med nations.

Don't look to the ECB for solutions, they can merely delay collapse by throwing money at the problem.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:16 | 6870212 I AM SULLY
I AM SULLY's picture

"Every Central Banker has a tool box with one tool in it ..."

(a limp dick)

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:59 | 6870419 Frederico
Frederico's picture

Every Central Banker is a tool. 

There, fixed it for you.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 09:49 | 6870129 Grouchy Marx
Grouchy Marx's picture

The appearance of control. 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:08 | 6870145 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

We will do whatever it takes, for as long as and as many times as it takes, whatever 'it' is.....thank you now go buy some stawks.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:01 | 6870165 Baby Eating Dingo22
Baby Eating Dingo22's picture

Did that mutha F'r just cite projections put together by his staff and a box of crayons as evidence that QE has been a success???

Will some little girl please bull rush him immediately??

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:02 | 6870167 walküre
walküre's picture

WTF are people in Europe waiting for? That Draghi drops deposit rates to -100% and all funds are confiscated?

What is the strategy of his policies? He wants to increase the flow of money. He wants banks to make loans but to whom and for what purpose?

EUR is up on the news because parking more EUR and getting shafted deeper makes sense. Massive GS induced short squeeze is what this is. Who the fuck is still listening to GS calls and hoping to live to see another day?

Back to Europe and the moneychanger par excellence over there... he can do what he wants because the EURO royalty has his back. The royalty has always trusted a Jew with their money. The peasants don't matter at all. Europe is completely run by royalty and oligarchs and Jew bankers. Not the Jewish banker's fault when the royalty trusts them exclusively.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:08 | 6870188 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

he is not a Jew, walküre. yes, he can "do what he wants" and he has my support. he is under his target, so he can expand. that's the rules

question is: is he delivering price stability? and don't answer that without numbers

btw, confiscation of funds is a national matter

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:18 | 6870218 walküre
walküre's picture

What do you mean he has your support? How can you support central banking that steals money that you deposited? Yeah, the stability is all that matters. As if life was always stable. Be careful, alot can be mandated and declared "in the name of stability" or for the "good of stability".

Doesn't mean it is good or true.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:33 | 6870274 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

"central banking that steals money that you deposited?" clarify a bit what you mean

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:05 | 6870455 walküre
walküre's picture

What part of NIRP or negative deposit rates are you not understanding?

Talk to the insurance guys. They'll set you straight.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:40 | 6870658 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 walküre. and who is subjected at the moment to negative deposit rates? banks? people in Denmark, which isn't in the eurozone?

question: is someone even then forcing you to hold deposits at a bank?

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:45 | 6870690 Frederico
Frederico's picture

What are you going on about Ghordius? Yes there is. European directives, which banned cash transaction over 2000 euros in most European countries. Which basically is forcing me to have my deposits in a bank account, since I cannot buy a car, a house or anything for that matter in which the value of a transaction is over what they stipulate its the maximum amount.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:55 | 6870783 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Frederico, do you have a link for that? I was still at the point where it was only France and Italy doing such things. Note that in both countries I do regularly circumvent such silly laws by... splitting the amounts in allowed parcels. Just recently I had recently to pay a bill in a Roman hotel for a group of people and I simply paid every room and every night separately. yes, in cash

silly laws, yes. "European Directive"... not that I know. as far as I know, they are still national laws

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 13:51 | 6871489 Frederico
Frederico's picture

Actually I do:

France: http://www.lemonde.fr/argent/article/2015/08/31/paiement-en-liquide-les-...

Portugal: http://www.publico.pt/economia/noticia/nao-publicar-banco-de-portugal-ap...

Italy: http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/magazine/italys-cap-on-cash-payments-1208201...

Spain: http://alexanderhiggins.com/spain-bans-cash-transactions-over-2500-euros...

Denmark: http://www.pymnts.com/news/2015/denmark-legislates-cashless-society/

Sweden: (Note Sweden doesn't necessarily have a ban on cash over X amount of Euros, but public buses don't accept cash; tickets are prepaid, a small but growing number of businesses only take cards, and some bank offices --which make money on electronic transactions -- have stopped handling cash altogether) http://www.ibtimes.com/sweden-going-cashless-pros-cons-paper-money-214321)

Greece: http://www.thedailybell.com/news-analysis/28569/Now-Greece-Bans-Cash--Ag...

And the following countries are sending signals of following through with the same policies: UK, Switzerland and Netherlands among others worldwide. 

I call to your attention that most of these laws were approved (you're correct here) by national governments, but all under directions of international banking regulations passed thru to national central banks. In Portugal its the Bank of Portugal that dictates the guides to the financial sector. And the two major financial institutions in Europe setting economic directives and polices, are the BIS and the ECB (I'm not going to even get into details of how these two institutions are unregulated and unsupervised, deriving from their supranational charter status achieved by nefarious means).

Are you really using your own experience on how to "avoid" this inconvenience on what you term "silly laws" to justify your argument? You were saying people aren't forced into this situation, you made it seem really simple when you ask "is someone even then forcing you to hold deposits at a bank?"

Well they sure are making life really difficult for anyone who doesn't want to participate in the madness. Hence we're exposed to financial delusion carried out by international banking unsupervised institutions, approved at the heart of the Eurozone, Frankfurt (ECB) and Brussels (EU Commission). And you're telling me about national laws? Have you been following the news in Europe of the unhappiness of the European people? The record levels of unemployment, and social unrest? Very few countries in Europe have a say in how to run their country in economic matters. 

 

Let's not be naïve Ghordius.

Fri, 12/04/2015 - 05:02 | 6874603 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 Frederico, and thanks for the links

so we have here France, Portugal, Italy, Spain, Denmark, Sweden, Greece passing national laws that are restricting cash transactions, while the UK, Switzerland and the Netherlands sending signals

my problem is only this: saying that they are following "European Directives". That's the excuse of... wiesels. Elected monkeys that point to the EU as excuse instead of explaining why they use their delegated power to do something they aren't forced to do

two ways I tackle with it

First, I oppose those laws where I have some voice, and I circumvent or even break those laws. Call me a criminally-minded citizen, if you want. Interestingly, there is usually a whole lot of ways to circumvent those laws legally if you really want to. The willingness I encounter when I pay cash and the vendor is willing to print out several separate invoices all under the legal limit is quite big, and the discussion I have are very interesting

Second, the global financial system is sick. We are not only in the middle of a War On Cash, this very war is just a side-issue in the greater War of Currencies

I am trying hard not to be naive, Frederico. And this includes my skepticism on how things would be run in Euroepan Countries if the same parliaments would have more say on economic matters

those national financial repression laws? well, they pale in comparison to what we would have if our parliaments had more power to "repress financially". including, and chiefly, if they had the power to devalue the national currencies for some political brownie points, leading to a intra-european currency devaluation feast and war, with the international banking voltures picking on the whole

looking forward to have another excellent discussion on this

Fri, 12/04/2015 - 05:22 | 6874623 Frederico
Frederico's picture

Me too Ghordius ;) See you on the other side

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:41 | 6870306 Frederico
Frederico's picture

I was under the impression that during the Cyprus crisis, the IMF and European Comission said no further release of funds until they guaranteed the confiscation of Cypriots deposits.

So I don't think anything is a national matter in Europe, when major decisions are taken by Brussels, and countries gave up their financial sovereignty upon entrance in the union. If you have to undertake social measures to correct financial problems (most of them created initially with European funding) then nothing is a national matter. 

If there were still national matters in Europe, Greece would be out of the Euro, the Cypriots would still have their money, Venice would be independent from Italy, and unicorns would be shitting rainbows over the European parliament.

 

 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:58 | 6870412 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

impressions are fine, but which parliament passed which law in order to confiscate funds?

"countries gave up their financial sovereignty upon entrance in the union" not correct. the UK, for example, is member of the EU and it has... not

meanwhile, yes, the eurozone countries and a couple more have signed a Stability Pact where they did indeed promise to... balance their budgets

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:21 | 6870495 Frederico
Frederico's picture

You make it sound like the Cypriot parliament took that decision upon itself. That there weren't any external forces at play here. Like there was no other way except confiscation of deposits. It was actually a combination of the IMF and the European Union to coerce the Cyprus government to play ball, or be strangled financially. Even though European projections for Cyprus economy data, made us all believe that this wasn't going to happen. But it did, which either was a gross mistake by the EU, or there was malice. I'll give them them benefict of doubt, for the sake of discussion. 

At least you can admit that unlike the UK who didn't enter the European monetary experiment along with Denmark and some others (i.e. EUR) all the countries that did (i.e. and specially Portugal, Spain, Greece, Italy and Ireland), ended up giving up their financial sovereignty. So how can you say confiscation is a national matter when confiscation of funds are a financial measure and are dictated mostly in financial meetings in Brussels?

Do you agree with the decision taken in Cyprus? or Greece for that matter?

I just find your remarks about being totally behind Drahgi on this, rather odd. It's not like up until now the financial aspect of Europe has been a sucess (I would agree politically it might have been and commercially as well, but not the financial aspect of the individual members of the EU with the exception maybe of Germany). 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:49 | 6870727 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

+1 No, I am not totally behind Draghi. I just admit that I would do the same, and swear like a sailor while doing it

external forces. yes. and, in the case of Cyprus, a policy of becoming a "banking superpower"... that failed in it's intent

Greece? what is your take on what Greece ought to have done? since they got rid of the military junta, that is? what they did wasn't financially conservative, was it?

hope we get a bit further in this discussion, sometimes. you do admit that we are actually already in the realm of political decisions, don't you?

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:40 | 6870311 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Walkures take on History is correct.

King John used the jews to concentrate wealth,  thus bankrupting the region's.

Eventually after much turmoil over the decades, leading to the expulsion.

Nothing much has changed

 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:06 | 6870178 Crocodile
Crocodile's picture

Think about thee sheer arrogance of this group; they are saying we can print as much as we want and buy whatever we want at anytime we want.  The obvious outcome is control and manipulation of the many.  They have reached their goal; if you are in their favor, then you profit and if you are in their cross-hairs, then you fail.  The ultimate control only because they can buy commodities with printed paper.

We are truly in a bad state of affairs as mankind goes; better hope there is a better life after death.

Draghi look reptillian, but no relation to the Crocodile.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:08 | 6870186 Freebird
Freebird's picture

Blah, blah, blah, puke,.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:17 | 6870210 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

These central bankers are a riot.  They stand up there and pretend they know what they are doing when they are taking rates negative.  Dragster out to be a laughing stock, and holding his head in shame, along with the rest of the left wing whacko central planners, for running the Euro into the ground.  They are the definition of failure.  

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:19 | 6870219 Catalonian Capi...
Catalonian Capitalist's picture

GABAGOOOL!!!!!!!!!!! Fucking italians huh, am I right?

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:20 | 6870222 two hoots
two hoots's picture

If their forecast proved more accurate maybe people would have more confidence in current decisions? 

 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:22 | 6870226 Baby Eating Dingo22
Baby Eating Dingo22's picture

US markets are green again, which will pull Euro markets higher

QE working just fine

 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:32 | 6870259 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

European society is failing because of the forced mercantile activities projected on us a result of scarce money. 

The drop of the euro against £&$ did not help the people of Ireland this year.

There was increased activity / Gdp growth but wealth was extracted at a higher rate.

The increased energy consumption of Ireland and Iberia seen this year was not a result of residents living the high life.

It was a result of increased net tourist activity in these banking jurisdictions. 

 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:39 | 6870303 The Count
The Count's picture

Draghi and Yellen, two unelected money changers that are going to fuck us all up. The same kind of money changers Jesus kicked out of the temple. This kind of evil goes back thousands of years and yet we let it prevail. Planet Earth is really the armpit of this corner of the galaxy. 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 10:49 | 6870362 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Ghordious  is most likely a paid euro agent and a poor propagandist to boot

Everytime someone states the obvious with regard to the euro regime he comes in almost immediately with a stupid canard that is at best at a tangent to the core points of the critic.



Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:00 | 6870426 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

whatever. having fun, in the mean time. call me when you have an argument

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:06 | 6870466 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Its impossible to engage in a argument with you as your default position is to engage in sheer sophistry

Your tactics are quite good but your arguments are shit as it is impossible to defend the indefensible.

 

The purpose of production is consumption,  not concentration.

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:37 | 6870647 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

cool. your arguments, my dear Dork, are nearly unintelligible

"The purpose of production is consumption,  not concentration"

this argument, for example, is illiberal (meaning you are against savings) and anti-capitalistic (meaning you are against the accumulation of capital)

but no, you see yourself as a "localist", not a communist or a socialist

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 13:17 | 6871018 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

I am not against savings

I am making the correct observation that savings are not needed in a economy without friction / waste.

This is a very clear and logical distinction.

Some savings are needed in a practical rather then hypothetical economy but the level of forced savings projected on us in artifical scarcity economies such as the present is a method of control.

To force us into a puritanical box.

We first began saving on a large scale when agriculure was introduced and then only in the autumn season.

Now we are forced to save 12 months a year in a forever autumn economy.

My advice is to read your Dante

"why save,  Why waste"

Ps,  just to make it clear,  I will tell you what I am against.

Waste,  

You are making the classic mistake of a financial "liberal"

You are confusing financial metrics with the physical economy

In.reality your saved capital is wasted effort.

 


Yd 

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:00 | 6870430 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

To understand the current structure of liberal capitalist society one must start in Bellocs Servile State.

It's freedom for the Few who gain that freedom through artifical concentration methods.

 

I mean look at what is happening around us!!!!! 

When Robin fled to the woods to escape Norman / Jewish usury / tax the solution was to burn down the woods.

Today the woods are now cash.

The solution in a wealth concentrationist mind is both mad and rational.

To burn the cash,  no matter what the cost to general wealth..

Thu, 12/03/2015 - 11:31 | 6870621 Goldbugger
Goldbugger's picture

ECB TO EXTEND ASSET-BUYING PROGRAM TO AT LEAST MARCH 2017

 

THAT'S WHEN THE ECB RUNS OUT OF CASH

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