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Turkey Detains Russian Ships In Black Sea, Blasts Moscow For Brandishing Rocket Launcher In Strait
Exactly a week ago, we warned that Turkey does have one trump card when it comes to dealing with an angry Russian bear that’s hell bent on making life miserable for Ankara in the wake of Erdogan’s brazen move to shoot down a Russian Su-24 near the Syrian border. Turkey, we explained, could move to close the Bosphorus Strait, cutting one of Moscow’s key supply lines to Latakia.
We went on to explain, that such a move would probably be illegal based on the 1936 Montreux Convention, but as Sputnik noted, "in times of war, the passage of warships shall be left entirely to the discretion of the Turkish government."
Obviously, Turkey and Russia haven’t formally declared war on one another, but the plane “incident” marked the first time a NATO member has engaged a Russian or Soviet aircraft in more than six decades and given the gravity of that escalation, one would hardly put it past Erdogan to start interfering with Moscow’s warships, especially if it means delaying their arrival in Syria where the Russians are on the verge of restoring an Assad government that’s Turkey despises.
Well sure enough, the tit-for-tat mutual escalation that’s ensued since the Su-24 crash has spilled over into the maritime arena with Moscow and Ankara detaining each other's ships.
After five Turkish vessels were held at the port of Novorossiysk for “inspections,” Turkey retaliated on Friday by holding four Russian ships at the Black Sea port of Samsun. The following table reveals a hilarious list of the Russian vessels’ alleged infractions which apparently include fire safety violations, pollution prevention violations, and problems with “life saving appliances.”:
One of the vessels - the cargo ship Crystal - has yet to be released.
"Six ships with a Russian flag were checked at Samsun Port on Dec. 5. The ships were found to be in compliance with Port State Control (PSC) rules, a series of international standards that all ships are required to meet, but some problems were subsequently detected in four of the ships," Hurriyet says, adding that "three of the ships consequently met the requirements and were permitted to leave, but the remaining vessel has not yet been permitted to depart."
The Crystal apparently lacks the "required documents."
Obviously, Russia and Turkey are engaged in a bit of petty mutual escalation here, but it's worth noting that Samsun isn't far from the Bosphorus:
And while Turkey now appears content to harrass Russian cargo vessels, one shouldn't discount the possibility that Erodgan will look to do something more provocative now that it looks like the UN will ultimately be dragged into the ISIS oil smuggling debate.
Indeed, Moscow seems to be taking the Bosphorus issue quite seriously because as Hurriyet reported just hours ago, when the Russian warship Caesar Kunikov made its way through the strait on Saturday, a Russian soldier stood on deck with a shoulder ground-to-air missile at the ready.
Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu's response: "For a Russian soldier to display a rocket launcher or something similar while passing on a Russian warship is a provocation. If we perceive a threatening situation, we will give the necessary response."" Indeed.
And meanwhile, three NATO warships have dropped anchor off Istanbul’s Sarayburnu coast: Portugal's F-334 NRP Francisco de Almeida, Spain’s F-105 ESPS Blaz de Lezo, and Canada's FFG-338 HMCS Winnipeg.
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This is going to be interesting. Putin! your chess move now.
Erdogan’s fate has been sealed – he is a goner.
The spooks on both sides of the pond are preparing for him either:
a military coup d'état, Egyptian-style,
a terrisss attack by ISIS, or…
a suicide by Nailgun or Gluegun.
Vlad must be laughing with hiccups, like a baby, watching the NATO-clowns peeing all over each other. ;-)
Looney
...Turkey will prolly sink the Cdn ship ... it comprises 100% of the Cdn Navy.
That allows the USSA to send armed forces across Canada...in the name of peace.
One should expect such petty harassment by Erdogan. Putin has done an excellent job of destroying his reputation domestically and in the EU, opening up Erdogan and his family to eventual criminal charges in Turkey. IMHO, I don't think that the Sultan wannabe thought that the Russians would 'out' his criminal support of ISIS so blatantly.
Truth is, however, that detaining 4 Russian ships for minor violations is a chickenshit tactic, compared to closing down the Bosphorus.
Furthermore, I doubt very much that the rest of the EU NATO states will support Turkey in a war against Russia. Since 75% of the NATO forces are Amerikan, this may not matter from a military standpoint, but certainly matters when the Obamanation claims to have an international coalition backing regime change in Syria.
In fact, Turkey is probably, after Israel and the USSA, the nation most hated by Western Europe. In Greece, Bulgaria and other eastern European countries, the Turks are the most hated nation, hands down. I'll bet that most Europeans secretly wish that Russia would destroy Erdogan.
But what about Russia detaining Turkish ships- is Saint Puty playing with chickenshit too?
The Turkish foreign minister missing the grads that could have laid waste to downtown Istanbul and focusing on a Strela-2 MANPAD should be grounds for extreme ridicule though. I wonder what he will say the next time a Russian guided missile cruiser passes the Straights...
Why bother, the ship has substantial naval canons on board. A rocket launcher with a bent firing tube? Sure, that's gonna work. Photoshop anybody?
A wider view shows interesting detail. The guy in the companion way with an overhead cover has a clearer, more brightly lit face than the guy on top deck.
http://i.cdn.ensonhaber.com/resimler/diger/putin_5011.jpg
Edit: People film ships passing through the straits all the time. A video showing the supposed manpad would be more convincing than a possibly photoshopped still image.
The Caesar Kunikov is a large landing ship, like a marine-deployment ship. USers call them LSTs.
This particular vessel was employed in the battle for South Ossetia in 2008.
What Turkey should be concerned about is whether this ship is empty.
fuck turkey. the jews, the russians, obama, isis and iraq in general, thats what i think about all this.
I don't know whether all of this is genuine or contrived (ala WWF - World Wrestling Federation or World War Faux)... but I'm rooting for Drago over The Sheik in this one.
NATO called into protect ISIS oil smugglers and Turkush oil thieves. This shoukd debunk the NATO myth of peacekerper vs. exploiter
Erdogan was used by TPTB to do a lot of shit I will be surprized if the TPTB doesn't throw him under the bus
The Bus with his name on it is coming down the road. WWIII starts and he is just a footnote aftward.
I disagree that the ball is in Putin's court. Under International law and the Montreux Convention, Turkey must allow free access through The Bosphorus from The Black Sea UNLESS THERE IS A STATE OF WAR. So, actually, the ball is firmly in Erdogan's court to decalre war on Russia, thereby possibly invoking Article 5 of the NATO Charter to involve all NATO countries in said war. NATO might not be amused.
The US, of course, has a "Deep commitment" to the free passage of maritme vessels, as evidenced by its behaviour towrads China in The South China Sea. So here would be another opportunity to Putin to further expose US hegemony and hypocrisy. So the ball is very definitely NOT in Russia's Court as Putin will play his usual patient Chess game and allow "The Allies' to get their knickers in a twist all over again.
Article 5 doesn't cover unilaterally declaring war. It covers protecting allies that come under attack.
And the USA has never ratified 'freedom of the seas', so they have no intention of enforcing it in anything other than cases of self interest.
Yes, I forgot that the US is exceptional...
The 6 or so large landing ships form the backbone of the 'Syrian Express' Russia to Syria shuttle service. The ships are on a continuous 3 week round trip treadmill. Carrying between 5-700 tons (like 10 tanks) per trip they have been joined by several other Russian Navy auxillary ships as well as about 8 recently acquired merchant ships, including a big RO-RO ferry.
These ships are always loaded to the gunnels southbound and empty northbound.
The LSTs are of course fairly heavily armed so the MAMPAD was a one or two finger gesture (depending on your mood!)
Russian soldier with MANPADS and in a bathrobe of Eastern terrorists? It's that - a new uniform in the Russian army or a new anecdote of the day?
Looks like a standard Russian Naval long-coat to me. As seen in "The Hunt for Red October". A robe would be much longer. Besides, that guy had to stand out there for 45 minutes shouldering that thing in the cold; hope he had long undies. Putin should give him his own stained glass window in the Haiga Sophia once he kicks the trash out.
As seen in "The Hunt for Red October"?
In what year the movie was made, of which you speak? It was 70 years ago or 40?
Look at the armament of Caesar Kunikov
2 × twin 57 mm (2.2 in) DP guns
4 × 8 Strela 2 SAM launchers
2 × 22 A-215 Grad-M rocket launchers
So it carries 4 sets of hard mounted 8 unit Strelas and 2 sets of 22 tube Grad MLRS. This vessel could lay waste to a significant part of Constantinople before the Turks had time to react. The one man with a possible Igla is however a 'provocation' - more PR bs for the ignorant masses.
Constantinople where is that, could not find it on the map
Constantinople where is that, could not find it on the map
The Russian soldiers always have adequate clothing, especially agains coldness.
It were Adolf´s boys who were trapped in the Russian winter with summer uniforms.
The Russians break the ice on lakes to go swimming in winter. Those heading to the Med at this time of year are more likely to button up their shirt rather than put on 'winter' clothing.
Go to this twitter page https://twitter.com/alperboler
Russia detained ships after turkey delayed and detained several ships.
oh and did a sneak attack on one of their fighters, then had their terror proxies shoot at the parachuting pilots and rescur helicopters.
So yeah. Saint Puty, indeed.
Well if you don't want to take Tyler's word for it, you can read the order of events from Bloomberg. Saint Puty's minions started the childish boat inspection game.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-05/turkey-russia-fallout-...
Although Tyler could have included screenshots for both November and December for those who missed the context and sequence of events...
http://www.bsmou.org/database/detention-list/
okay fair enough you might be right on the ship inspection game.
Still a big difference between that and ambushing a bomber on its way to attack isis positions and violating Syrian airspace to do it, no?
Of course Erdogan is stirring the pot and playing with fire that could burn us all. But I couldn't pass up the opportunity fuck with the Puti tolls, precisely because it was probably a low level .gov Puti troll in Novorossiysk who thought a massive escalation in Turkish ship detentions would be a "good idea" (I doubt the cabinet ministers advising Putin are dumb enough not to realize that the Turks would respond in kind using the exact same treaty framework).
+1 UR
Putin doesn’t want to do anything to interrupt the flow of shit coming down from the Federal Reserve and the ECB to the peasants at the bottom of the hill.
People seem to forget he lived through this financial shit storm in the old USSR. He knows what is coming.
Money counterfeit,
You are correct, I think Putin knows collaps is near.
I hear a Doors tune playing in the background of this article...
The picture of the dude with the rocket launcher on the Russian ship looks photoshopped.
"Thank you! Our Creative Cloud subscription has finally payed off!"
~ Turkish Foreign Ministry PR Dept.
Why? Because he's standing in the shadow of the mast and therefore looks darker? Or maybe he's a negro, and we all know there are no negroes in Russia, so yeah.... definitely shopped.
No shadows or color variation on the body compared to the other sailor about six foot in front of him, or even the face of the person. The supposed Igla appears to eith be bent behind the man's back, or even more tikely, not in line with the front.
Download the image and zoom in to see for yourself.
Also appears to be black bleeding on the hand rail by the mans right arm. check it out if you want. ill load i into gimp later.
You can also download all the more high resolution pictures from different angles that have appeared on therwebz and compare them... but the basic facts are fairly well substantiated.
Notice the other sailor wearing combat gear and helmet, and rocket boi is wearing a trench coat and a knit sock hat.
Interesting.
He woke up late for the drill so he quickly put on his housecoat and got on deck. Or maybe he's their Klinger.
An Igla unit weighs about 24 pounds. I wouldn't want to stand around with one of those on my shoulders just for show.
"This is the end, my only friend the end." Is that the one?
Yes, or maybe "when the music´s over, turn out the light"
Didn't the turkish prez just receive a 3 billion dollar bribe to leave office?
No, it was a bribe to hold back on the flow of migrants until the EU public stops whining about it and moves on to the next distraction - Kardashian's ass has just gone super-nova, wow!
Closing down the straits will be against the maritime law "freedom of navigation" and will backfire badly and also hurts Turkey's trade.
"and will backfire badly"
That is an understatement. A blockade of the Bosphorus strait would virtually guarantee military conflict.
I am not sure if Turks could keep the straits closed. A few tactical nukes could persuade them to stop trying.
Erdogan wont close the Bosphorus. He will lose too much in transit fees.
Kudos.
With all due respect to the deceased pilot and his family, I cannot help but think that Putin could not believe his luck when Turkey made such an appallingly obvious and stupid move in shooting down the Russian plane in Syria. Russia was immediately seen as the victim of crazy Erdogan, and Putin was handed the dais to reveal the support given to ISIS by Turkey, and reveal the dirt about the oil trade between ISIS and Turkey.
This x 2:
In fact, Turkey is probably, after Israel and the USSA, the nation most hated by Western Europe. In Greece, Bulgaria and other eastern European countries, the Turks are the most hated nation, hands down. I'll bet that most Europeans secretly wish that Russia would destroy Erdogan.
Turkey challenged Putin and Prostitutin has blinked. Now, US and Turkey will accelerate their provocations.
It apparently takes lots of time for fools and Prostitutin supporters to admit the reality.
Thus speaks the dumb ass Ukie troll, working for his daily potato. Putin will pay back Erdogan at a time and place of his choosing. In the meantime, the Turkish Internet is aflame with the Russian proofs of Erdogans support for ISIS.
Slava Ukraijna asshole, or should I say, Slave of Ukraijna.
Those warships are old stock and out of date.
They need to be taken out of inventory before the newest
warships can be purchased.
Wrong, they are working their butts off with continuous operation for months doing a top job, one they were not designed for. Which was a heavily armed tank landing craft.
A brand new Russian armaments supply ship, the first of a new class, has by shear coincidence just been completed and is about the be handed over to the Russian Navy. Expect it to join the Syrian Express in January.
Remember the movie Goodfellas? Tommy is killed in retribution for Batts' murder, having been fooled into thinking he would become a made man. But it didn't happen right away.
So Erdogan thinks he is going to be a "made man"? Ha ha ha. When he least expects it he will get his.
Comedy gold by Latin Lover:
"Thus speaks the dumb ass Ukie troll, working for his daily potato."
On the topic of Ukraine, I firmly believe that Ukraine has entered a space where it will be lost for 2-3-4 decades (at minimum), never getting anywhere even remotely close to what its ppl were sold or naively hoped. The place is an outright fcking mess of a country.....these nation changing things take dacades to play out. I see vietnam as the bestcase template for Ukraine - decades of dust, bewilderment, hopelessness and misery.
....the end
Recently I have been trolling Anastasia.com. The women in Ukraine are fucking desperate to get out of that country.
Standard Disclaimer: So if you are in the market for a Russian/Ukrainian bride, the time is now.
Caconhma..... yo' mama bitch.
Stop it with jumping on every single little incident and declaring the end result, the world rarely works like that, the reality is that the long term is far more important here, and Turkey has a lot more to lose in lost exports and foreign visitors then Russia.
And also factor in that Erdogan is not as popular as he would like to be, his support dropped too low just a few months ago, so as the negative effects to the economic start to bite he will be the loser. In fact he is probably hoping that Russia will go full retard and do something dumb, because he could sell that as an attack on Turkey and a nationalist rallying cry, instead he's being subjected to a relentless economic and political squeeze.
I guess he is a survivor, and his opposition are weak today, but he is going to have his hands full in the years to come just trying to fend off his growing number of domestic critics who find themselves out of pocket due to his policies.
The larger point is Erdogan has no choice but to do Obama's bidding. He knows what the US does to countries who don't. In the current environment, an uprising and coup wouldn't be all that hard to accomplish if the CIA (will funded with Opium cash) were directed to make it help make it happen.
I think you mean heroin.
https://www.rt.com/business/324715-moodys-russia-economy-siluanov/
Ratings agency Moody's has upgraded the Russian government bond rating from negative to stable, citing the stabilization of Russia's external finances.Moody's attributes this to a macroeconomic adjustment that has helped to mitigate the effect of the fall in crude prices on official forex reserves.
Neckbeard.
Kiev began to use on this forum a new weapon: Ukrainian electronic bot.
Abbreviated name sounds: ukro-e-bot
Dude, thats cold , I'll have you know Canadian Navy has 2 ships, one uses sails, but, still
The USSA Armed Forces have the DEW Line (Distant Early Warning) in the Canadian Arctic, I've been there for road maintenance before. Impressive.
I don't know what that retard, Justin Trudeau, is doing putting our boat in the way of the Russians...that's not how we roll.
I dunno Looney... BOTH the Turks and Russians are provoking each other like madmen.
Sure the Russians would beat the snot out of Turkey. But, the reactions to THAT in the Muslim world would be severe. A new Jihad? And would that really show that Putin is a "chess master"???
In the longer run, IMO, Russia has big problems. INDIA of all places just taught me that (I wrote of our recent trip there in a recent thread).
I also read here at ZH (author unknown to me, alas) that "No one likes the Turks". LOL!
Still, point taken, juvenile acts can lead to ugly wars.
- 1 to war...
Istanbul was Constantinople now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople, why did Constantinople get the works? That nobody's business but the Turks...
GMadScientist
I hesitate to comment on that, but your comments are always interesting to me.
It's from an old Bette Middler tune, 38.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcwb6u7jWXA
Popularly covered by They Might Be Giants and used in the Animaniacs as well.
Even worse, the Hellespont is now the Dardanelles.
WWIII is shaping up to be one heck of a geography lesson.
And the Bosporus is the Bosphorus. I don't know when that was officially changed.
"Constantinople" means "City of Constantine", ie Constantine + Polis (city).
Istanbul is a Turkish transliteration of the Greek term, "On (or to) The City" ("eis tan polin" in Greek). It was a figure of speech, much like New Yorkers say, when they have to travel back to Manhattan after a weekend in the Hamptons, "It's time to go back to The City".
So, the Turks can't even name a city that they conquered, they just call it "The City". But then, Turks never had surnames before Attaturk gave them surnames. Mustafa Kemal made up a list of some twenty-odd surnames, and every Turk had to choose one. Modernization and all. If Erdogan can take a break from buggering little boys and dreaming of a revival of the Sublime Porte, maybe he could think straight. I guess he's just following his leader, the Pole-smoker iin chief, the supreme Khalif of the muzzie world, Barack Hussien Obama.
Speaking of Sublime, here's your dose today:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Uc3ZrmhDN4
You are correct, with just a minor quibble:
Eis - tin - poli ( bastardized into istanbul, soon to change back to its maiden name ) ---> where " Eis " means " In " or " To " as opposed to *on*, which in greek is " apano ", accent on the second a. The rest of your comment is spot on.
Pardon my minutiae-policing of the language :-)
< Grammar Nazi
< Not grammar Nazi
:D
Enjoyed your comment, especially that you mention New York, which was once "New Amsterdam" only to be taken over by Anglos and run by a transvestite governor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hyde,_3rd_Earl_of_Clarendon#New_Yor...
Russia Problem, in my opinion: Too much noise and posturing for very little to gain.
It wouldn’t surprise me at all that Putin’s Plan-B is to get out of the Middle East. For once, would save Russia lots of money and energy—burning unnecessary oil and dollar reserve.
Yet another interesting observation for a Sunday morning, thanks!
Some interesting truth there.
Russia, by supporting Syria, Iraq and Iran, are creating an new energy bloc not controlled by the USSA. It will be Iranian and Iraqi nat gas carried via Russian pipelines that will fuel southern Europe, not Qatari. Moreover, the longer the pipelines are delayed, the better for Russia to continue selling nat gas to Europe, earning hundreds of billions for the Russian state.
As for Turkey, they can do nothing to stop Russia from bombing ISIS into oblivion.
Bombing by airpower, all the way back to WWII, seems to NOT be as effective as the warmongers believe.
The only way that bombing by planes seems to "work" is if they they bomb BIG, or just go home.
You mean like the russian FAB-9000 (9,000 kg / 20,000 lb) bombs? Big enough for you, LOL?
http://www.liquisearch.com/general-purpose_bomb/modern_gp_bombs/soviet__...
BTW, rumor has it that the Russians have even heavier non nuclear weapons.
However, if things get serious, there is always the Tsar Bomba:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwlNPhn64TA
You'll need SPF5000 if this baby goes off within 500 miles of your location.
In WWII, England and the USA bombed the CRAP out of the German ball bearing plants (bearings are necessary for tanks).
Within days, the Germans were back in production.
Airpower is of MUCH LOWER military use than most think. Bombing did not work against Vietnam either as you may recall.
You have to bomb big, not just a few big bombs, or else not much happens.
ISIS may adjust to the Russian bombing. Syria is not over.
And Vietnam won...
* * *
You are completely right about one point that you hint at. NATO has done jack shit about bombing ISIS. Almost makes you wonder........
I get your point. You need boots on the ground to win. Air power alone, will never do it.
Keep in mind, however, that the Russian presence blocks Turkey and limits NATO bombing missions. This means that the ISIS airforce, aka NATO cannot bomb Syrian Army groups and civilian infrastructure to support their ISIS pets.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/10/13/putin-cites-us-bombing-attack-on...
Depends on what your mission is. Russia's mission has been to support the Syrian Army (Iranian troops really). The strategic intent is to de-fund ISIS. No money, no weapons/food/recruits. The tactics are to destroy oil bearing trucks. No trucks, and more importantly no drivers, means no oil sales to Turkey.
Secondarily, by having an air presence, Russia stops US/CIA planes from bombing Syrian Army. CIA can't claim to be bombing ISIS with Russia watching them and recording their actions.
If, or when, Russia decides to take and hold land, an unlikely proposition, then they will need boots on the ground. For now, they have Iranian sandals on the ground.
Can I ask why you think Syria doesn't have an army? Seems to be a motif on ZH, that the SAA doesn't exist.
Partly due to the Allies not able to bomb a major German supplier of ball bearings, SKF in Sweden.
And how many of those has Putin dropped in Syria?
None?
If Russia has something comparable to the US A-10 Warthog they're not having any trouble lighting up those rows of tankers.
Su-25
burning unnecessary oil and dollar reserve.
Oil is almost free and dollars..... You get the idea
Sorry, but I think your analysis is flawed. Putin is now faced with a do or die situation. The US has been trying to starve him out by having the Saudi's over produce in order to drop the Oil price. He has to find a way to drive the price back up. If he backs out now he loses all the momentum he has gained, and he loses face at home... exactly what the US wants.
Nope, Putin is all in... but he won't play to the US tune... he will look for the unexpected moves to catch the west and Sunni bloc off guard.
Agreed. That's the trouble with being a bully, pushing the little kids around, for too long, when a tough bastard comes along your standard tactics are suddenly found wanting. I have no clue what's going to happen here, but I suspect it won't be pretty for the US. I think that's why the current rash of false flags in the USSA are directed more at gun confiscation than at war. A major reversal in the ME would create turmoil at home, likely precipitate total financial and commercial collapse, and the elites would be looking down the barrel of a gun.
The drop in oil has backfired. Russian news saying it wil go to 10. So they are preparing, while stupid countries like Canada "hoping" for oil to go up.
@Escrava
Read this from here: http://thesaker.is/world-war-iii-why-russia-will-bury-the-west/
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Reflexive Control: Ultimate Weapon
Disinformation, camouflage and stratagem are some of the ways one can influence the outcome of a war. The Russians have taken these ancient arts to another level through the use of the theory of Reflexive Control (RC).
Developed by Russian military strategists in the 1960s, RC aims to convey information to an opponent that would influence them to voluntarily make a decision desired by the initiator of the action. It can be used against either human or computer-based decision-making processors. Russia employs it not only at the strategic and tactical levels in war but also in the geopolitical sphere.
Russian Army Major General M.D. Ionov was among the early proponents of RC, having pursued it since the 1970s. In an article in 1995, he noted that the objective of reflexive control is to force an enemy into making decisions that lead to his defeat by influencing or controlling his decision-making process.
Ionov considers this a form of high art founded of necessity on an intimate knowledge of human thinking and psychology, military history, the roots of the particular conflict, and the capabilities of competing combat assets.
Timothy L. Thomas writes in the Journal of Slavic Studies: “In a war in which reflexive control is being employed, the side with the highest degree of reflex (the side best able to imitate the other side’s thoughts or predict its behaviour) will have the best chances of winning. The degree of reflex depends on many factors, the most important of which are analytical capability, general erudition and experience, and the scope of knowledge about the enemy.”
If successfully achieved, reflexive control over the enemy makes it possible to influence their combat plans, their view of the situation, and how they fight. RC methods are varied and include camouflage (at all levels), disinformation, encouragement, blackmail by force, and the compromising of various officials and officers.
According to Robert C. Rasmussen of the Center for International Maritime Security, “It is exactly this type of application of Reflexive Control that a young Vladimir Putin would have learned in his early development at the 401st KGB School and in his career as a KGB/FSB officer.”
Because every battle is first fought in the head before a bullet is fired on the ground, Russia’s long experience with RC would be a key factor in its existential struggle with the US.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This is not my work, I have zero benefit and do not promote anything on that site for anyone's monetary gain.
ALso, more here: https://www.rit.edu/~w-cmmc/literature/Thomas_2004.pdf
The only reason I provide these is because I completely disagree with you but you actually sound reasonable.
It sounds like more of the meme of "Putin plays chess" to excuse lack of action or being pushed back.
"the objective of reflexive control is to force an enemy into making decisions that lead to his defeat by influencing or controlling his decision-making process."
For example, are we to believe that the destruction of Iraq, Libya, Serbia, Syria and currently Yemen and other Russian allies was reflexive control. That the slaughtering of those peoples was planned by Russia?
More rational belief: Blankone series of comments display orthogonal deviation from reality.
Is a butthurt pravoseki troll or ukrobot with AI functionality the level of segmented worm. (Difficult to discern between those without examining in real.)
true, it's not a strategy for those with the attention span of a gerbil. move on, troll
So Russia wants to jump ship in the ME leaving Syria to be positioned with NATO/US/Oligarchs and providing an additional wedge between Iran and SA? In addition they would no doubt love to give up their only warm water port at Tartus? I'm no Vlad Putin but I don't see Russia willing to aid and abet those interests that seek Russia's demise.
Ah yes. The ever so enlightened india. Not at all poverty stricken to death (Gold ownership by the wealthy notwithstanding) with literally shit everywhere. Yes. We should all listen to a country thats facing a human excrement epidemic. Lol.
India, while still very poor, has made impressive strides. They ARE developing, and yes, they have a LOOOOONG way to go.
But their population is growing, their attitudes re technology and infrastructure are slowly, but surely, changing.
Do not write off India.
Agree. Potential is definitely there but alot of hurdles to overcome. India's best bet is to align with russia and China more definitively and not become another american vassal
Well, seeing as how pretty much every Silicon Valley tech company is teched out almost exclusively by Indians, I'd say the Indians have a pretty good Fifth Column going inside the US!
Sure the Russians would beat the snot out of Turkey. But, the reactions to "THAT in the Muslim world would be severe. A new Jihad? "
Maybe that's the US & EU method of getting themselves out of the "jihad" focus.
Russia vs. Jihad would be better than either vs. USA & Europe.
I do not see how the US and EU are using Turkey and Russia to get there though.
"Russia vs. Jihad would be better..."
It could include flattening the sand dunes in Saudi Arab.
And high oil prices which are not to be paid in dollars.
Looney, a suicide by Nailgun or Gluegun.
Ohh boy. You should not be commenting.
Neither should you.
Maybe before posting you should have a moment of silence and reflect " is what I say additive to the discussion or will this reveal to others as me being a judgmental sanctimonious flippant individual." This has helped me avoid a few faux pas, at least while sober.
Miffed
Looney has being here for over 4 years. I hold people that have been here these many years to a higher standard.
What's a gluegun suicide anyway?
A very sticky wicket.
Well, looney did stop short of suicide by Velcro?
4) a choppah to a non-extradition country where he can play tennis with Idi Amin's kids
I rather fancy the gluegun solution.
If it's fired in Erdogan's mouth it might shut him up :-)
Unlikely
Wrong end, he is talking out of his ass.
.
Could this apply even more pressure on Erdogan? I have read this is another of Turkeys oil suppliers, now out of action.
https://www.rt.com/news/324844-azeri-oil-platform-fire/
I bet he will keep bombing terrorist aka turkey military in Syria. And time to get involved in Iraq.
Erdogan is Obomba's puppet. His sole purpose is to provoke Russia into attacking Turkey, so that Erdogan can call in the NATO dogs of war.
Meanwhile Europe is losing money on Russian sanctions, on more stupid bombing of Syria, on a failed currency union.
Maybe NATO can provoke Russia enough that Russia destabilizes Turkey, and the whole Middle East becomes a roiling mass of chaos ripe for the Caliphate, er. more bombing, including oil wells... and the West's oil supply fails and we enter a depressionary Dark Age, ruled by the bankers
cheers,
benign
1937
All of this is just more distraction. Whatever you do, do NOT talk about Turkey's invasion of Iraq with ground troops. Do NOT mention the fact that they have been told to get out by the Iraqi government.
I repeat, DO NOT talk about Turkey's ground invasion of Iraq.
We all read about that.
It could end with Iranians throwing the Turks out, under Russian air superiority.
hmmmm....who will become the Archduke Ferdinand moment?
my bet...someone from Germany or France.
Things are escalating quickly folks.
Probably a suitcase nuke somewhere in the US, and they'll find Assad's passport in the wasteland.
Gentlemen, start your engines!
Putin would be the big one. Totally unpredicatable response if they lost him.
I'm sure Mossad and the CIA, in their hubris, are working on it.
Putin's plane was nearby when MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. The pilot of the shooting Ukraine fighter is reported to have said that MH17 was "The wrong plane at the wrong time."
So what plane was the Ukrainian fighter sent to shoot down?
Within the first 24 hours of the MH17 shoot down, I remember Putin appearing on russian TV. This was the first time I ever saw him look shaken. One wonders what was really at play....?
I think he realised for the first time the extent to which the banksters and their NATO goons are prepared to go, namely murder ~300 innocent civilians in an attempt to frame Putin personally.
Putin's plane was never in Ukrainian airspace, when he was returning from a summit in Brazil. Flew via Poland.
But, his plane was in the air at the same time. The livery of the Russian presidential plane is very similar to that of Malaysian Airlines. Possibly the Ukrainians got some bad intelligence, or Putin's plane changed its flight plan at the last minute.
A German Tornado, as i wrote one week ago.
I am expecting O"bama to chastize Erdogan severely for his blatant provocations blockading an international waterway. I would not be surprised if Barry denounces him as a, "blockhead" which in Turkey is one of the most humiliating names you can throw at a Turk.
On the other side of the world you can be sure the powers in China are watching closely and will double their naval strength in response to secure their waterways in Asia and SE Asia.
So, Charlie Brown is a Turk?
Yes. He recently immigrated.
"So, Charlie Brown is a Turk?"
apparently so....
http://www.buzzfeed.com/summeranne/13-of-the-best-life-in-hell-comics-by...
LOL!!!! "Detain a Russian ship"... That's some funny propaganda right there. Why does it look more and more like the U.S. and NATO polcies were developed by fifth graders.
These are not policies. These are reactionary moves.
And here is when things can go wrong. And wrong quickly.
Yes, but I am waiting for the official "I know you are but what am I" response.
But Vlad has already said he's not going to let the dirty Turkish govt. provoke hin into something rash. He will look after the criminal psycopath Erdogan at a time and place of his choosing, not NATOs
Somehow I feel like this is going to get really ugly.
Two weeks ago, Canada said it would not participate in the war on ISIS. So is their ship there to support ISIS?
I don't see that WAR will be the result of any of this. I see threats backed up by guns but not war. People thought the same thing would happen when Russia moved into Syria.
and Trudeau is believable because he has good hair?
Trudeau had a cock in his mouth at the time, so maybe everyone mis-heard him.
No, Trudeau specifically said Canada was pulling out of the air campaign only, likely because they were just targeting sand dunes and empty buildings as per US instructions. He said Canada would keep the naval support and training missions intact.
I hope you are right but that's funny because all I see on the horizen is massive war.
1. Russia cannot back down. If they lose Syria, then they lose everything.
2. NATO could back down but why would they now? There's a LOT of money at stake, and water Israel needs in the south.
All it takes is for one "accident" from some Rambo wanna be and *poof* fan meets shit. LARGE FAN meets shit.
I agree with you. Is this a game of Chess or Poker? Depends on the duress and resolve of the players and all of us could suffer any misstep.
Miffed;-)