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Canada Just Warned That Negative Interest Rates Are Coming

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Moments ago, the Bank of Canada's chief finally said what we had been patiently waiting for over the past several months: admission that Europe's experiment with negative rates is about to cross the Atlantic. From Market News:

  • BOC POLOZ: NOW SEES EFFECTIVE LOWER BOUND FOR POLICY RATE AROUND -0.5%
  • BOC POLOZ: CANADN FIN MKTS COULD FUNCTION IN A NEG INT RATE ENVRIONMNT
  • BOC POLOZ: 'SHOULD THE NEED ARISE' FOR UNCONVENTIONAL MONETARY POLICY, 'WE'LL BE READY'

That, as they say, is "forward guidance" of what is coming.

And what is coming, is also precisely what Keith Dicker from IceCap Asset Management said in his latest monthly letter, would happen in Canada in the very near future. To wit:

Canada

Now that the election is over, the new government can quickly get down to work to missing all of their economic forecasts and budgets.

IceCap is apolitical – we support neither the left, the center or the right. Instead, we see the world with our global goggles and can confirm that despite any and all economic policies from the new (or old) government – the Canadian economy will continue it’s downward trend.

This negative outlook for Canada isn’t driven by an insular view or perspective. Rather, the global trend is downward. The economic and monetary foundation for the global economy has shifted and this is the reason for our downward view for the Great White North.
During the election campaign, we shared this view with the eventual winning party. The response was a slow yawn and disapproving look which suggested either we didn’t know what we were talking about or they were not really interested in our answer to their question.

This lack of empathy for the escalating global government debt crisis is also shared by many in the financial sector as well. Yes, increasingly more and more investment managers are echoing concerns similar to ours – but make no mistake, the majority, and especially the really big investment and mutual fund companies continue to see a recovery right around the ole corner.

Of course, this mythical corner continues to be just as elusive as unicorns, trolls, elves and dragons. In 2014, Canada’s top Bay Street economists were all clamouring for the Bank of Canada to begin raising rates – after all, these economists had very big spreadsheets, with all kinds of neat formulas and corporate logos that predicted the Canadian economy was about to shoot to the moon.

Yes, the good times were back.

But they weren’t.

At the time, IceCap stated that the global economy was beginning to roll over and that the Canadian economy would begin shooting in the opposite direction. As well, based upon our outlook for declining growth, we also expected the Bank of Canada to REDUCE interest rates, not INCREASE interest rates as predicted by Bay Street.

Naturally, our view meant that the Canadian Dollar would decline significantly relative to the US Dollar. This provided us with a great opportunity to add a significant USD currency strategy within every Canadian Dollar Client Portfolio.

Now here we are in 2015, and the Canadian Dollar (and other currencies) has in fact declined significantly, and the Bank of Canada has in fact REDUCED interest rates not once, but twice.

We share this investment success story for 2 reasons:

  • Taking an insular view of your Country’s economy will lead you to losing money.
  • The global economy and financial markets continue to move in the direction which we expect. And this direction is going to produce outcomes that are being completely missed by many in the investment community.

Which brings us back to Canada. Currently, both the Bank of Canada and Bay Street economists predict the Canadian economy to recover in 2016, and then to accelerate in 2017.

The ONLY way for this to occur is if the global economy sheds it’s government debt problem. IceCap places a 0% probability of this occurring.

Instead, everyone should expect:

  1. Canadian economy to be in recession in 2016
  2. Bank of Canada will be at 0% interest rates in 2016
  3. Bank of Canada will be at NEGATIVE interest rates in later 2016
  4. Bank of Canada will be PRINTING MONEY in later 2016

And for the Canadian Dollar? It’s headed lower, a lot lower. If you are not Canadian, just know that you are in a similar boat. And when it comes to boating, there is one simple rule – going against the flow is difficult, it’s exhausting, and it can be humbling.

* * *

So, in order to force the Bank of Canada's hand, is this what's coming next?

 

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Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:37 | 6894879 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Lets blame the muslims, eh...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:38 | 6894887 coinhead
coinhead's picture

Negative rates... nothing could be better for gold, silver, Bitcoin and reality in general.  The final push of a failed thought experiment.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:46 | 6894935 SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Well, I don't have faith in the crypto currency, but I can compliment you upon a clear, succinct, well mannered, and well thought out post.

My compliments to you, sir.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:59 | 6895016 Diet Coke and F...
Diet Coke and Floozies's picture

Don't worry guys, a new tax will be coming online next year to shore up the budget... http://time.com/4137644/canadian-prime-minister-reaffirms-plan-to-legali...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:07 | 6895069 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

Good, maybe they'll overwinter in Canada  instead of coming down to Florida and fucking up my commutes every day.  I swear to christ they don't understand that our speed limit is in MPH.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:12 | 6895090 mtl4
mtl4's picture

Hard to imagine how could 10 million canadians per year visiting provide any benefit to Floridians anyway.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:18 | 6895141 nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

I guess there is fresh ($36 per barrel) blood in the water.

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:21 | 6895155 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Negative rates aint your buddy guy!

 

RIPS

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:34 | 6895168 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

And some still think the US will raise rates - lmao

The BOC decisions of the past were always foresight into upcoming Fed decisions.

How's y'alls pension plans looking?  lmfao.  Sorry, I find destroying capital by the suits controlling the price of capital rather hilarious.  If there ever were a definition of policy failure, I think this may be it.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:39 | 6895250 two hoots
two hoots's picture

And Janet has us ready for liftoff (cause we are awesum).   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba97uvWmhEc

 

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:29 | 6895542 HowdyDoody
HowdyDoody's picture

The next step in the controlled demolition of the economy.

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:00 | 6895721 Money Counterfeiter
Money Counterfeiter's picture

Zionist rule Canada.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:54 | 6895986 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Who doesnt rule Canada? Canada is the lap dog of the west. btw Poloz is an Ukranian Jew. No wonder Canada hates Russia.

btw, so technically if interest rates are negative, the banks pay me to borrow more money to buy overpriced houses???

 

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:50 | 6896260 wanderer9641
wanderer9641's picture

No - If interest rates are negative you pay them to hold your money whiule they create a spread so that if you borrow money, they get more out of you. - bankers get paid - not do the paying.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:01 | 6896318 Lore
Lore's picture

Haha. You're funny.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:38 | 6896478 Canadian Made
Canadian Made's picture

Canada is run by a bunch of fuckin psychopaths, its press is 100% propaganda, its central bank is run by a jew, and 95% of its citizens are brain dead. And its different in US, Britian, France etc...how?

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 22:01 | 6897279 HotelBread
HotelBread's picture

Most Canadians get their news from the CBC. The Collectivist Broadcasting Corpulence is a nonstop megaphone of socialist and anti-family propaganda. Other broadcasters largely follow its lead. Things are so bad, in a nationwide poll a few years ago to choose "the Greatest Canadian," the winner was Tommy Douglas, founder of Canada's socialized health service. One of the runners-up was climate whore David Suzuki.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 23:20 | 6897615 PavlovPup
PavlovPup's picture

Harper hated Russia, and there is a big Ukranian poulation here. We will simply and as ever perservere up here.

 

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 00:49 | 6897922 monk27
monk27's picture

Butt kissing the Ukrainian minority with his rabid anti-Russian stance didn't help him much in the last elections... Today, he's a nobody.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 06:29 | 6898301 Lore
Lore's picture

There are lots of 2nd- and 3rd-generation Uke-Canadians east of Edmonton who feel no love for the puppet regime in Kiev. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:40 | 6895262 Joe Sichs Pach
Joe Sichs Pach's picture

^ Ed Zachary!  US raising rates in December?  Good luck with that

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:43 | 6896500 Reichstag Fire Dept.
Reichstag Fire Dept.'s picture

Pension plan looks great!

Sold the house at the top of the market in the summer and bought physical gold with the money.

I'm ready...bring the heat!

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 10:04 | 6898849 bilbert
bilbert's picture

Nor your B.B. King!

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 09:49 | 6898788 Kayman
Kayman's picture

WCS at $26USD, not $36. No blood left.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:19 | 6895142 nuclearsquid
nuclearsquid's picture

I guess there is fresh ($36 per barrel) blood in the water.

wooohoo.  ZH liked my comment so much they posted it for me twice!!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:15 | 6895113 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

i might be a broken record on this, but so long as we are ostensibly a capitalist society it bears repeating: Negative interest rates are nothing less than the direct and deliberate destruction of Capital. Madness.

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:25 | 6895176 rejected
rejected's picture

Their plan... exactly!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:54 | 6895178 mtl4
mtl4's picture

Agreed, government is trapped and they see it as their only way out (kick the can)........problems are that big cracks are beginning to show in the dam (pensions, insurance, etc) and all that water is eventually going to bust through at some point.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:37 | 6896412 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

The useful idiots are as you describe. Central bankers on the other hand are performing a controlled demolition of all economies and currencies to pave the way for a global currency similar to the SDR/Bancor.

Global government via trade agreements is the end game along with a one world digital currency to have everyone by the short and curlies.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 08:25 | 6898521 MasterControl
MasterControl's picture

The politicians make it so.
The only useful idiot is you keeping the blame from them as mucha s possible. 

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 12:53 | 6900000 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

If you live in the fantasy land where politicians are anything more than errand boys it is in fact you sir who is the useful idiot. The Nuremberg defense will not and should not shield the politicians, but they are following orders none the less.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:59 | 6895362 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes, unfortunately we have become a fascist police state...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:39 | 6896438 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

This! It's is the fascist wing of the collectivist ideologies that is our current problem. People rail against Socialist which is nowhere in sight and miss the Fascist policies such as Obama care which is NOT Socialist, it is as Fascist as the bank bailouts. Crony capitalism with state intervention in markets is the very definition of Fascism.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:56 | 6895698 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It is! Here in Europe we've got 7% inflation in less then 6 months!!!!! You do the math if they keep it up for a decade.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:26 | 6895845 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

lying about true inflation rates is the best way to have in reality, functioning negative interest rates when you claim it's still in positive territory

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:30 | 6895719 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

YES, Squid-, MAD Money As Debt systems, whereby governments enforce frauds by privately controlled banks, are INHERENTLY MADNESS!

http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/silent_weapons_quiet_wars.htm

Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

Energy is recognized as the key to all activity on earth. Natural science is the study of the sources and control of natural energy, and social science, theoretically expressed as economics, is the study of the sources and control of social energy. Both are bookkeeping systems: mathematics. Therefore, mathematics is the primary energy science. And the bookkeeper can be king if the public can be kept ignorant of the methodology of the bookkeeping. ... In this structure, credit, presented as a pure element called "currency," has the appearance of capital, but is in effect negative capital. Hence, it has the appearance of service, but is in fact, indebtedness or debt. ... if balanced in no other way, will be balanced by the negation of population (war, genocide)... They must eventually resort to war to balance the account, because war ultimately is merely the act of destroying the creditor ... War is therefore the balancing of the system by killing the true creditors (the public ...) the economy has been transformed into a guided missile on target. ...

Negative capital

shall annihilate

any capitalism.

Negative interest rates are a "logical" development within systems that are fundamentally based upon MADNESS. While Canada is one of the few countries left in the world that is still only suffering from debt slavery, rather than has gone over the edge of MADNESS into debt insanities (because Canada still has enough natural resources left to strip-mine to sustain making "money" out of nothing as debts in order to "pay" for doing that), Canada is accelerating towards those kinds of globalized and privatized forms of MADNESS!

 

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 22:36 | 6897369 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Hey RM:

I wait eagerly for legalization of the backyard herb now that "Just-In" and the Libtardals got the majority.

http://www.cbc.ca/22minutes/videos/clips-season-23/marijuana-party

Won't hold my breath... (well just a little bit when inhaling).

 

PS: That is you ?

 

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 22:42 | 6897480 Radical Marijuana
Radical Marijuana's picture

No, that was not me, the guy in that amusing video interview was the Candidate in Hamilton Centre, Michael Baldasaro

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:22 | 6895515 ScottyGolf
ScottyGolf's picture

Not our fault your state is an old person haven. It's nothing to do w/ kph vs mph much less something inately Candian about slow driving...you're talking about senior citizens. Oh and you don't want us to spend our money at your local businesses? Smart guy you must be.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:43 | 6895623 Mr.Sono
Mr.Sono's picture

Canadians are the cheapest when it comes spending in the local Florida businesses. To the point where its not even worth of having them there. Canadians need to stick with Mexico, they go together well. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:23 | 6895830 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

They don't patronize mom and pop business.  They all flock to Walmart, Applebees and Outback and do nothing but bitch about how crowded they are, and how much the locals are pieces of trash.

 

I wouldn't mind, if they would follow 1 rule: don't drive between 7-9 am and 4-6 pm.  That's when the makers are going to work...

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:34 | 6895896 greenskeeper carl
greenskeeper carl's picture

I live in Florida and I don't see the driving as a Canadian problem either. The cars I see with Canadian plates are no worse than the ones from the northern US. It's old people. They drive slow.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:29 | 6896169 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

Many, many Canadians have been hit in the head with a puck.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:22 | 6895161 TheDanimal
TheDanimal's picture

I don't have faith in the crypto either. The NSA has backdoor access to devices. How many and which ones is impossible to know. They could shut down the network or disrupt it with potentiality great ease. Or the president could use his Internet kill switch authority. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:50 | 6895661 highandwired
highandwired's picture

You don't need the Internet for Bitcoin to function.  Besides, by the time the Internet is shut off, you will have much bigger problems than not being able to send Bitcoin overseas. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:48 | 6896519 Bring the Gold
Bring the Gold's picture

Let me imagine a SHTF scenario. Internet is gone due to kill switch the dollar is tanking. I find an item I want I have in hand a USB thumb drive with three bit coins on it (~$1000ish) and my access password. I also have one ounce gold coin (~$1000ish). Which do I imagine the middle aged Asian shopkeeper is more likely to take?

I don't need likely alphabet soup agency or central bank shenanigans to realize that 6,000 years of history and physical material reality is going to trump the wonders of block chain. I'm agnostic on Bitcoin's long term value but vs gold or silver...? Bring the gold and I'll bring me sack.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:59 | 6895720 slimycorporated...
slimycorporatedickhead's picture

negative rates and no bank run.... truly shows how stupid people are, good luck canada

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:46 | 6896245 Dinero D. Profit
Dinero D. Profit's picture

-----I’m sure this negative interest rate absurdity has a Red Shield babble champion to defend it

 

 

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 00:14 | 6897791 PavlovPup
PavlovPup's picture

You might be surprised at the public reaction to this. 35 millon is still a relatively small poulation, and a 10% tipping point is all you need supposedly. Canadian politicians have to be very carefull, Harper made the mistake of underestimating the people and thinking they scare easy. there is still a strong element of frontier mentality up here. I hope its enough....

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 06:31 | 6898335 Lore
Lore's picture

You're joking, right?  Justin (very much his father's son) was marketed as the last, best hope for uninterrupted flow of statist pap, and Canada's drowning-in-debt, socialist-collectivist hordes sucked up the Kool-Aid, drooling at the prospect of "more free shit" and "taxing the rich" (i.e., decimating the middle class).  It's the same old stupid, juvenile formula.  At least Harper stood up to the Agenda 21 greenshirts, a little.  Now the barn doors are open and the long-awaited Rothschild consumption ("Carbon") tax wheels are in motion. You think some things were bad before?  We teeter on the verge of the greatest generational crunch in living memory, along with potential for big war based on false pretexts, and you think things are going to get better under an attention-seeking globalist-malleable lap-dog?  You had better hope that True Duh doesn't abort the Northern Gateway pipeline, because somebody has to pay for your geriatric pension, and it seems unlikely to come from much capital formation under this guy.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 10:37 | 6899094 PavlovPup
PavlovPup's picture

I did'nt vote for him, and I am aware of the fabian liberalism jesuit connection in his liniage. Harper was still worse in my opinion, to each their own. I don't even know what middle class is up here any more,everyone is struggling. What I wanted this election was to hear the plan for a post crash econemy, a means to pick up the peices. I would vote for the best reset. Because that is where we are at.

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:17 | 6896104 TrustbutVerify
TrustbutVerify's picture

Truth is the price of everything may be inflated.  Gold and other PMs may do well when 'it' hits the fan but longer term it, too, may be over priced.  Gold may enjoy a super spike for a while but suffer longer term as the world gets back to reality - assuming it does.  

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:05 | 6895057 Kolchak
Kolchak's picture

Yeah the donald can fix this, oh wait we wont even make it to an election, cancel that.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:21 | 6895152 White Mountains
White Mountains's picture

BitCoin baby!  Learn it or die.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 01:16 | 6897999 redwraith
redwraith's picture

If you're a true bitcoiner, you know you don't capitalize the 'C',  come on, man.  

BTW, $418 per coin, movin' on up...

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 06:20 | 6898376 White Mountains
White Mountains's picture

I dunno, I have 1000 US dOllArS in my wallet.  Yep, just checked, the dollars are still there.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:15 | 6895789 Canadian Dirtlump
Canadian Dirtlump's picture

Looks like I at east have a reason to have a get pissed to the point I piss in the laundry basket night. At least drinks are cheap in downtown cowtown these days. That's fine. As I've said before I look forward to the property meltdown in Calgary. Shame it will come wil an even higher suicide rate.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:14 | 6896087 Bruce Gender
Bruce Gender's picture

I'll just drop this bit from Jim Rickards' book The Death of Money:

 

The worst economic danger confronting the United States is deceptively simple. It looks like this: (-1) - (-3) = 2

In this equation, the first term represents nominal growth, the second term represents inflation or deflation, and the right side of the equation equals real growth. A more familiar presentation of this equation is: 5 -2 = 3

 

MOAR QE!!

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 07:27 | 6898442 Praeda2
Praeda2's picture

Was that supposed to be witty? I guess in your dope smoking, faggot mind it was.

At least you didn't try to suggest that any of the hundreds of thousands of shitskins that Canada brings in every year, ADD something to Canada.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:36 | 6894880 coinhead
coinhead's picture

bring it!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:38 | 6894886 css1971
css1971's picture

GET OUT THERE AND SPEND YOUR FUCKING MONEY!!!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:50 | 6894952 MaxMax
MaxMax's picture

Only problem is that your average citizen has almost no savings, debts and declining real incomes for near 10 years now.  Add to that higher rents, higher (now mandated) health care costs, soaring college tuitions and your average person is tapped-out.  The government can spin the data any way they want, but it doesn't change the facts.  Do they wonder why the white male lifespan in the USA fas been falling for years?

One thing you can safely assume about the USA consumer is that if there is a way for them to spend money, they will.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:23 | 6895165 Deathrips
Deathrips's picture

Canadian mortgages are "FULL RECOURSE".

 

They are Fooked.

 

RIPS

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:10 | 6895430 madcows
madcows's picture

If you're lucky to have savings, you can bet they'll take it by force with inflation.

Real inflation has destroyed my savings.  the last 8 years have been a real bitch.  and our healthcare premiums just went up by another $700.  so, it looks like 2016 is going to be just as horrendous.

we're getting chickens.  we'll start there.  maybe move in to other food pets like pigs.  food inflation has really taken a toll.  of course, once i've been shoved back to being a farmer/gatherer, the dot.gov can say my food inflation has totally gone away, and i have tons of money that i'm now saving.  which is nice.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 22:00 | 6897269 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

an organic garden is one of the best weapons against these bastards. So is diversity of plants with as many perennials as possible - very little work from year to year. A garden removes a lot of costs - energy, bureaucracy, corruption, poison, GMOs, taxes, soil depletion.... It's a basic skill that most people had to have for all but the last 100 years and that short destructive experiment is now crashing down.

It's interesting how we now have some of the "cheapest" food in history while the medical costs keep climbing. It's an interesting and short sighted definition of cheap. Food that s shipped 1000 miles has also lost a large amount of its nutritional value so we may be paying less but were getting less a lot less. Everything is now made from high fructose corn syrup and GMO soy and were feeeding it to animals who we then eat  - defying and destroying much of the natural chain.   

Your best medical insurance is knowing what you put in your body.   

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 00:47 | 6897913 erg
erg's picture

I bought a book about local medicinal and edible plants. Can't hurt right? Queen Anne's lace seems to grow everywhere and it's a wild carrot.

I understand there are wild hops locally. It gives me ideas about creating some kind of crazy, new frontier, SHTF beer.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:04 | 6895746 css1971
css1971's picture

IF YOU HAVEN'T GOT ANY FUCKING MONEY! BORROW IT THEN SPEND IT!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:53 | 6894974 cpnscarlet
cpnscarlet's picture

I might spend some funcking currency soon, but I'll keep my stacks of fucking money until the manipulation of it stops and it is valued properly by all.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:05 | 6895055 willwork4food
willwork4food's picture

GET OUT THERE AND SPEND YOUR FUCKING MONEY!!!

 

Precursor to hyper-inflation.

Might want to spruce your home up some.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:59 | 6895715 secretargentman
secretargentman's picture

Run up those credit cards for Christmas! ... Do it for the children.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:02 | 6895738 css1971
css1971's picture

FUCKING SPEND IT! SPENNNNNDDDD ITTTT! SPEND!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:44 | 6894897 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Canada can thank the US for its war on oil for their economic troubles.  Obama wants to starve Russia of oil export cash - too bad Canada gets crushed too.

John Kerry, the US secretary of state, allegedly struck a deal with King Abdullah in September under which the Saudis would sell crude at below the prevailing market price. That would help explain why the price has been falling at a time when, given the turmoil in Iraq and Syria caused by Islamic State, it would normally have been rising.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/economics-blog/2014/nov/09/us-iran-r...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:44 | 6894924 underman
underman's picture

Canada is just as out of hand as the rest.  Head in the sand for the last 10 years.  Here comes the pain.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:15 | 6895109 highandwired
highandwired's picture

Been warning my fellow Canadians for years now.  Do you think anyone would listen?  I received just blank stares and insults in return.  Fuck em!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:18 | 6895129 Latina Lover
Latina Lover's picture

Even worse than being Amerika's enemy, is to be her vassal.

Vlad Putin

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:03 | 6896038 Killdo
Killdo's picture

one of my biggest surpirses when I moved to the US (being a Serb) was realizing how little the US cares about its own people. (Kind of as much as they do about Serbs or Iraqis etc - or even less)

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:17 | 6896105 Jerky Miester
Jerky Miester's picture

Welcome to the new Muslim problem ... just like the old Muslim problem.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:23 | 6895170 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Remember in the old days how banks would charge a service fee on your account, especially if the balance was under a certain magical amount? That had the same effect as negative interest for me and my friends because we couldn't keep enough fiat in there to avoid the fees. I learned to despise banks as a teen-ager. As my understanding of the Federal Reserve grew, the manager of the local branch was no longer the bad guy.

Perhaps negative interest rates will encourage a general loathing for the industry now. Can't say the banksters won't deserve it.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:49 | 6895308 83_vf_1100_c
83_vf_1100_c's picture

'the manager of the local branch was no longer the bad guy.'

  That would be like saying Col Klink was not a bad guy because...Hitler. You work for the devil, you are part and parcel of evil. jmo

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:07 | 6896042 Killdo
Killdo's picture

They do that only in the US and Canada - I have never seen it in England etc

In Canada they often increase the limit without telling you and then you get charged 20$ or so every month without realizing. It happened to me a few tiemes, and I only noticed after they took a few hundred CAD out of my account

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:00 | 6895024 aVileRat
aVileRat's picture

Yup, NAFTA was a real winner for Canada. Preferred Trading Partner clause was a paper tiger and first casuality of Keystone XL/East Coast exports. But if one were to get really technical then Canadian foreign policy has been a failed program since at least the late 90's when large conglomerates exploited Tax shopping treaties in Ontario and subsequently guys like Magna/GM figured out that Mexico, China, India, Japan etc. had a PAC to fill. The kicker is that you can't even lay blame at the inbred Laurentien Elite (nee Harper) as Canada has pledged to every trade round, ethical governance treaty & enviromental sumit (ex-Kyoto) since Deifenbaker.

How's that working out for a nation who "trades by the rules"? Did China or Cuba respect Trudeau 1.0 ? How about Europe ? The same Europe who continues to chug Gunvor/Trafi smuggled crude oil while spouting Carbon-neutral platitudes....

Canada as a country is proof that nothing has changed since the League of Nations and Soft Power is just a euphism for first sucker. For all the 'lead by example' rhetoric, the employement situation in Alberta is now worse then Russia (by unofficial statistics) and they lack a permanent seat on any major ethics, security or natural resource management body at a state-level (UN or otherwise).

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:32 | 6895882 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well said

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 19:55 | 6896558 MASTER OF UNIVERSE
MASTER OF UNIVERSE's picture

Actually, ".......worse then Russia." should be ........worse than Russia.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:42 | 6895271 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If Canada.gov had any brains and balls (both are questionable these days), they'd send the naval ship Winniped (1 of 3 bathtubs) to the Straits of Hormuz, not the Dardanelles.

But, as they always do, when the US says "Jump!", Canada says "How high?"  Junk away, but you know it's the truth.  Self-righteous colonials.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 00:32 | 6897854 PavlovPup
PavlovPup's picture

Harper era yes, previously no. Cretien said no to the Iraq war, flat out. Further back we jumped to GB's bidding. And your right, we are smug. Sorry.

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:42 | 6894906 chart_gazer
chart_gazer's picture

They're greasing the skids to do them all - mumblefucking, QE, NIRP and whatever it takes.

http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/remarks-081215.pdf

 

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:42 | 6894912 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

A great solution to government overspending in the face of a collapse in oil and commodity prices. Best of all, negative rates are a sure way to crush your currency and keep your economy from recovering for decades!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:46 | 6894914 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

zh knew that shit was coming when they reported on the canada stock market being down.

there is no fed equity market put. dudley wasn't lying. there was a bernanke fed put but now it is all the other central bankers doing the heavy lifting and not the fed. pathetic asshole.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:43 | 6894917 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Every central bank in the world is cutting and old Yeller is issuing a margin call. If she does you know damn good and well it's because they want to blow everything up.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:48 | 6894945 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

it will be because the squid said "pull it"

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:18 | 6895130 mtl4
mtl4's picture

Squid or not this is exactly the same scenario that set up the 1930's Great Depression, USD will skyrocket as a safe haven (raising interest rates will encourage this) until the market finally goes parabolic and sets the final top.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:28 | 6895190 Kolchak
Kolchak's picture

Ah not this time mt, theres a new doggy in town come fall and it aint the dollar.... which in case anyone didnt notice is being propped up by the rothschild faction along with their evil twins the rockerfellers and old yellen.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:53 | 6895680 Mr.Sono
Mr.Sono's picture

I thought the final top is in.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:18 | 6895138 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

two collosal banks will collapse, as will seem expected - but a mystery third will for which no one with any sense of financial engineering be able to account for....

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 02:01 | 6894985 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

Negative interest rates for Cartel Banks and the Corporations and Politically Connected Scumbags.

13% to 26% interst rates for CCards and advertisemets for 3.5% mortgages that will only be provided to the top 10% who don't need yet more propping beyond that  already gifted to their stawk portfolios.

Bifurcated & Centrally Controlled Markets designed explicitly for wealth/productivity extraction and repression.

 

Bunch of criminals...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:11 | 6895401 madcows
madcows's picture

strengthen the dollar and let every EM and developing market collapse.

WWIII is here, and it's a financial war.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:48 | 6894937 MadVladtheconquerer
MadVladtheconquerer's picture

When Hawaii RE is on the block and Citibank offers -1.0% to take out a 50yr mortgage, I am all the fucking way in.

Until such time, its simply chronic masturbation.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:56 | 6894965 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

 

When Hawaii RE is on the block...

Ask yourself why?

Ingest just one hot particle from Fukushima, swimming in the Pacific, and that is it for you in a very short time.

The Fukushima nuclear plant continues to leak radioactive material and
more of it is showing up on the U.S. Pacific Ocean coastline, according
to new data from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:17 | 6895478 Vlad the Inhaler
Vlad the Inhaler's picture

The increased radiation "is still more than 500 times lower than US government safety limits for drinking water, and well below limits of concern for direct exposure while swimming, boating, or other recreational activities." WHOI

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:01 | 6895373 arbwhore
arbwhore's picture

Will you take out a mortgage to pay the property taxes as well?

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:48 | 6894941 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

People that converted CAD, AUD, MXN.....to Gold or USD over the last couple of years are happier than pigs in shit. However, the number of people who did this is negligible. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:59 | 6895017 813kml
813kml's picture

The good news is that CA suicide rates will go down since no one can afford guns/ammo.

But everyone knows the manly way to go is by wandering into bear country wearing a rump roast necklace.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:11 | 6895089 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

I've contemplated strolling the fortieth floor of the local Goldman Sach's building with a life insurance policy on my back. If I'm lucky, maybe I can take a few with me.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 18:11 | 6896068 Killdo
Killdo's picture

they dont need amo for that - a friend who worked as a driver of subway trains in Toronto told me they have poeple jumping under trains prety much every day in Toronto 

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 02:41 | 6898172 U4 eee aaa
U4 eee aaa's picture

Actually, a couple years ago there were lots of reports of guys getting killed due to ski-dooing in avalanche country. This was despite countless warning of avalanche danger all over the news. I believe this is the Canadian method to use if you don't have a gun. We could see more suicide by avalanche this winter

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:46 | 6895289 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

And people who converted to CAD, AUD or CNY, to avoid the "Imminent demise of King Dollar" are looking pretty damn stupid/stoopid also.

Never, ever, fucking NEVER go "All In", unless you either own the Casino, make the Rules, know everyone's Hand, or have a Deathwish.   Ditto for ANY single Asset.

Gamble at your own peril.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:35 | 6895904 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

It was those who held Rubles, Rand and Real that did better holding gold than anyone else.

Up 73%, 63% and 71% respectively over the last 5 years.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:49 | 6894947 847328_3527
847328_3527's picture

" Yes we can! "

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:16 | 6895120 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

When you play that backwards it's, "something? Satan".

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 22:13 | 6897323 Charming Anarchist
Charming Anarchist's picture

Sounds more like "What are you talking about, Willis?!?" to me.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:54 | 6894961 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

C'mon Yellen!   -A 2% FFR won't bury any institutions that aren't counterfeiting and account suspensions propped people eating zombie thieves already...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:51 | 6894963 jaxville
jaxville's picture

  Make sure the money you spend is borrowed.  The entire fractional reserve scam will turn turtle if folks don't increase borrowing.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:52 | 6894964 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

A lot of Austrian School economic bloggers have said for years that sooner or later the Fiat School of ecnomics was going to go to Negative Interest Rates, in order to force the populace with any money in savings to spend it. And these Austrian School Economists are proved right. They even said free money hand outs were coming, and Finland has already now done it.

The slide into fiscal collapse continues. All this is missing is the major world war that Austrian Economists believe the system can and must start as the last savior of Fiat Economics.

Like Marc Faber, he has called this since 2008 Central Bankers took over the world, he too said after the printing, and money handouts would come the war, led by America.

Everything according to plan. The only people in total ignorance of all this are the entire main stream media watching western populations, especially Americans.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:56 | 6894994 optimator
optimator's picture

No, not forced to spend it, forced to put it into the maket.  They won't let you get your hands on it in cash to tuck away, but if you do they'll take that by inflation.  Buy gold.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:57 | 6895004 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

So, basically one percent of the global population see this coming. I am not sure if this is good or bad for the one precent that can see. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:17 | 6895126 Implied Violins
Implied Violins's picture

Half of all Americans at least own one gun, and when they 'pull it', a certain 0.1% will be lit up like a Christmas tree. Here's hoping this becomes a global movement.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:29 | 6895199 22winmag
22winmag's picture

FDR said socialism was "practical".

 

We all know how that ended.

 

I believe the Austrian Economists are practical!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 17:05 | 6895753 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Jack

What our overlords are telling you is- pull your money out of the bank before they start clipping it- who said money  in your mattress wasn't earning interest.

NIRP is telling the public that these criminal clowns have not yet run out of ways to steal your wealth.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:53 | 6894972 MASTER OF UNIVERSE
MASTER OF UNIVERSE's picture

Poloz is incompetent, and working for Goldman Sachs out of a desk at the BofC.

 

Up yours, America.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:54 | 6894979 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

It seems odd to me that the computer systems behind this can handle negative values in the rate. 

I would assume that there would normally be a rule programmed that the rate couldn't be negative, just so something stupid doesn't get entered, but maybe the programmers were just very forward thinking. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:16 | 6895118 seek
seek's picture

Software gets updated, especially software that handles billions/trilions. Just off the top of my head I can name a couple major updates, like Y2K and when the Dow went to five digits.

At the consumer banking level, it'll probably just be handled as a fee proportional to the account balance.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 22:54 | 6897523 nosam
nosam's picture

Banks have big IT divisions that are kept busy with changing banking rules such as this.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:56 | 6894993 aliki
aliki's picture

all i know is i can't wait to see what happens to the high-yield market if she does raise. shits gonna get real & fast.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:56 | 6894999 homebody
homebody's picture

Bring it on you bloodsuckers - already took my money and put into fixed assets, land, preps, structures, animals, and a freeze dryer that is working everyday now.

 

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:05 | 6895058 astoriajoe
astoriajoe's picture

I always wondered about freeze drying. Thanks for the tip. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:13 | 6895096 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Don't forget calories that never spoil and spend well: hard liquor in glass bottles. Corn/maize liquor if possible.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:21 | 6895159 homebody
homebody's picture

18,000 rounds of ammo do not spoil either.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:41 | 6895609 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

98% of corn is GMO.

Pass on the bourbon, but since this thread be a Canuck thread, rye it is.

*hic*

Q: How does a Canadian spell Canada?

A: C, eh, N, eh, D, eh.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 20:57 | 6896943 Gregory Poonsores
Gregory Poonsores's picture

Wild Turkey, if you believe them  they say no GM corn.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 03:16 | 6898218 Disc Jockey
Disc Jockey's picture

Last time I was out in Kentucky traveling the bourbon trail I was lucky enough to get a tour of their production line and aging sheds with none other than Jimmy Russell, their head distiller.

Believe me, Jim would never allow that trash to be attached with his good name. That man is an artist and his passion for the art of bourbon was inspiring.

Now I'm admittedly a big fan and I regularly purchase Wild Turkey 101 (good with a bit of ice per Jim's suggestion). 

Elijah Craig is also good value for the money.

Wed, 12/09/2015 - 22:16 | 6902378 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Good to know.

Thanks.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:57 | 6895001 yogibear
yogibear's picture

"The final push of a failed thought experiment."

People need to take to the streets and rise up against these bankster sociopaths. 

No regard for the people and a viable currency.

Anything to get the currency velocity going up.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:00 | 6895025 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

People need to take to the streets and rise up against these bankster sociopaths. 

Too late. Best just to fuck the system back for a bit...make some alternative plans and enjoy the show. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:07 | 6895068 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

... or figure where it's going and make a killing! (and enjoy the show)

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 16:43 | 6895620 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Long kayaks and Icelandic dictionaries.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:20 | 6895144 seek
seek's picture

That will happen, but only after the banks drain their accounts.

And of course, the number of people with actual money in their accounts is a pretty small percentage.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 14:58 | 6895005 Cautiously Pess...
Cautiously Pessimistic's picture

New Canadian National Anthem....

O Canada, O Canada, Stephen Poloz stands on guard for thee;
O Canada, O Canada, negative rates is what ye shall see.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:06 | 6895060 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

O Canada!
My hundred fifty grand
Swiss bank account
Is out of your command!

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:01 | 6895032 Barnaby
Barnaby's picture

Luckily most Canadians have their life savings tied up in Tim Horton's and Labatt's. And no, I'm not talking stocks, you hosers.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:10 | 6895083 813kml
813kml's picture

Time to liquidate the hockey stick collection.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:03 | 6895036 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

my parents earned interest on their savings accounts, laddered CD's; had a paid off home & social security & a pension.

now, it's all being taken away from the boomer generation; no interest, looted pension funds,  & mortgages on a hyped-housing myth & outrageous property taxes.   

 I laugh when "they" tell us that we haven't saved enough.   

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:05 | 6895051 Philo Beddoe
Philo Beddoe's picture

A lot of old coggers will be screaming THEY should do something. The answer will be THEY did.  The lesson here is never trust THEY and put your faith in I. 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:29 | 6895200 seek
seek's picture

Same thing here. My parents financial advisor had them put about 60% of their savings into USTs and bonds... right around 1980 or so. Guaranteed 15%+ return for decades, with a pension on top of it, and before they died their primary occupation was bitching about being forced to withdraw savings from their IRAs.

About 15 years ago I was meeting with the CFO of a Fortune 500 for a session on long-term strategic planning, and the guy was really, really smart; his message was looking at demographics that we'd see the largest generational wealth transfer in history happen as the silent generation died and then a transfer and concentation as boomers died off as well. And he was right about that, but wrong about to who that wealth transfer was going. It's pretty obvious the banks saw that money as an opportunity to steal, and that's exactly what all this mess is about, stealing savings.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:04 | 6895047 Chuckster
Chuckster's picture

Just imagine what Hillary can do for us while filling her pockets like Bill, George W., Barry....the beat goes on.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:05 | 6895049 Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

We are so-so-so...DEAD with this kind of Keynesian twat in charge...

1. GOLD  2.cash...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:06 | 6895059 Bill of Rights
Bill of Rights's picture

Cant wait for 0.000% mortgages...

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:06 | 6895062 Event Horizon
Event Horizon's picture

My Vancouver house is at a record high right now 20% up YOY, 2.5 million, (ZH wrong again) neg rates and a lower CDN$ will send the RE prices stratospheric here.. other areas in Canada will get hammered.. 

Asians are buy, buy, buy, they cleaned out ALL the listings in our area, I MEAN ALL, none left, I have talked to them, they like low interest rates, cheaper dollar and "good" english schools..

 

2016 is going to be nuts,,,

 

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:10 | 6895084 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Remember that clapped out hag from automatic earth that guaranteed a 90% drop in Vancouver Real Estate prices was imminent....that was 6 years ago.

Tue, 12/08/2015 - 15:17 | 6895123 homebody
homebody's picture

Enjoy the paper, the traffic, the wall to wall people, the smog, the rush every weekend of crazies trying to get out of town, the drugs, the hookers, the downtown east side, .... its a great looking bubble - not

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