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Asset Protection? Silver Has Held Its Value For 23 Centuries
Submitted by Simon Black via SovereignMan.com,
Thousands of years ago in ancient city of Babylon, specially trained scribes gathered each day in the Temple of Marduk to record the day’s events.
They used cuneiform writing instruments and clay tablets, over 1200 of which still survive today.
These scribes kept excellent records, detailing astronomical observances and water levels of the Euphrates River, as well as market prices for the most popular commodities like wheat, barley, and wool.
It’s incredible that we have detailed records of grain prices going back thousands of years.
The ancient Babylonians quoted grain prices in shekels, a unit of weight equivalent to 8.33 grams of silver.
Over the 3+ century period between 384 BC and 60 BC, for example, the price of barley averaged 0.02053 shekels per quart in Babylonia.
At 8.33 grams per shekel, this would be equivalent to about 0.171 grams of silver per quart, or about $3.75 based on today’s silver price.
After converting the unit of measurement from ancient quart to modern hundredweight (cwt), that means that barley in Babylonian times sold for $5.23 per cwt when priced in today’s dollars.
And according to the US Department of Agriculture, yesterday’s price for barley was… $5.25 per cwt.
Amazing. When denominated in silver, the price of barley is almost exactly the same as it was thousands of years ago.
In other words, if a farmer from 23 centuries ago had sold a quart of barley, he would have received 0.171 grams of silver.
Fast forward to today and that 0.171 grams of silver would buy almost the exact same amount of grain as it did 23 centuries ago.
This is an important reminder, especially today as the entire financial system waits with bated breath to see if the US Federal Reserve will raise interest rates for the first time in nearly a decade.
It’s ultimately a complete farce. Our entire financial system is based on awarding total control of our money to a tiny, unelected committee of bureaucrats.
They have the power to conjure trillions of dollars, euros, yen, pounds, renminbi, etc. out of thin air that are backed by absolutely nothing other than a thin veneer of confidence.
Civilizations have been experimenting with this model for thousands of years. And every single time it has failed.
Future historians will certainly wonder why we chose a financial system based on a model with such a long history of failure, and why we gave control of our savings and economic activity to unelected bureaucrats who are consistently wrong.
When you step back and look at the big picture, this system is totally mad. And full of risk.
Governments are insolvent. Central banks are nearly insolvent. Banking systems are extremely illiquid. National pension funds are insolvent.
And their solution is to keep borrowing and printing more money.
Look, holding some physical cash does make sense right now as a *short-term* hedge against risks in the financial system.
If the GFC 2.0 hits, you’ll be glad that you’re holding some physical cash (more on this soon).
But how much do you think your paper currency will be worth 23 centuries from now? Or even 23 years? Or potentially even 23 months?
Bottom line– you’re not protected unless you own some real assets. Gold. Silver. Land. Productive business. This should be part of any rational person’s Plan B.
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Best protection available against the bloodsucking werewolf bastards of Wall Street.
Bernank is green with envy for all those boarding the silver rocket right now...
Silver mining has dwindled to incidental recovery as a by product of copper, nickel, and lead mining - pure silver mines were played out for the most part over one hundred plus years ago.
Down turn of economy will not deter the most significant modern day usage of consumer electronics - the smart phone. Silver is the most efficient conductor of electricity on a unit cost basis.
Economic recovery of silver in consumer electronics is not feasible, even in China. Economic recovery of silver used in most other modern day applications of silver is not feasible either.
The ten percenters will never stop wanting new consumer electronics, and they survive down turns to the economy just fine it seems.
Add in the newer industrial uses of silver that also shrug off economic issues out of necessity - medical wound dressings, water purification filters, etc., and you have a continuing demand for a metal whose annual production has been falling for decades.
So, you have an indispensable metal being consumed by industrial use constantly, declining in mining production, and under supply pressure to serve both the industrial and monetary silver markets.
Take away the paper manipulation of 2 - 300 times the available physical silver available in the market, and there's a problem with price discovery for the real deal versus fantasy paper silver that never existed.
Lastly, the uncertainty of a major economic event always moves people to seek out safe haven for their hard earned money. Fiat currency has a history of failure for thousands of years, a near perfect track record of failure.
Silver and gold have a five thousand year history of recognized value in times of uncertainty, more so than any other commodity you can name that is portable, incorruptible, stable, and internationally recognized.
To summarize, with silver spot trading for substantially less than the cost of production, I see no down side to investing in it as a safe haven.
If the whole world burns, silver will be a recognized form of currency far easier to trade with than anything else short of 22 LR ammo.
I would rather dance with the silver devil than take on Wall Street, Goldman Sacks Biters, JP Morgan Chase, banks, politicians, the Fed, the CIA, NSA, DHS, IRS, and all of the other thieves on the loose out there.
BUY THE FUCKING DIPS, bitchez.
There is still plenty of silver in the Calico Hills, it's just not worth enough to dig it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BfhP2kSpNI
Exactly. Declining ore grades are the # 1 reason I bought some years ago. Nature always has a way of bringing need vs availability back into balance.
The big bank price manipulation is icing on the cake for me AFAIC, as that will only lead to a panic and explosion eventually.
More metals bug propoganda! Why would any intelligent person care what any asset class does over thousands of years? At most, perhaps 45 years!
Because the other side of the 'corrupt government' trade is physical gold and silver, which are the only instruments that carry no counter party risk and are recognized and accepted globally.
The USD.... in the future, not so much. How about AAPL? Will either of those last 23 centuries? lol
Simon's math is complete shite.
0.171g / 31.1g/ozt * $14.10/ozt = ~8 cents.
Unless he just recycled an article from 2011 when silver peaked at $50/ozt?
I am Chumbawamba.
this article is also stupid if you believe that silver is massively undervalued compared to the dollar, the S&P, bonds, etc. Silver is underpriced, a lot.
if the author had not decided to cut off stocks from consideration (i bet reasoning goes: stocks are not 23 centuries old)
then he/she/they would have discovered they might as well have been doing as the muppets do...
"In the long run we are all dead." Some guy who is now ironically dead.
You do not belong here on a Financial website as you are both illiterate and innumerate.
Go back to DrudgeReport and get off of my porch.
READ MY ANALYSIS BELOW INNUMERATE MAN.
It's even worse than that, If .171 gm = $3.75, he's talking about $682 an oz Ag here.
Turrible math.
Yes. You are one innumerate man.
READ BELOW.
Look, the story said .171 grams of silver is $3.75 at today's price, which is wrong.
.171 gazinta 31.1 182 times. 182 times $3.75 is really high priced silver, man.
On my calculator.
grams of silver per quart
thats a measure of silver in water...
he said grams period.
just sayin
You did not understand the article at all.
The unit of Silver used was the Babylonian Shekel. It was the MONEY at the time.
And food, as Barley, even today, is packaged and sold by VOLUME at times. A quart is a measure of VOLUME.
Are you that illiterate and ignorant?
Chumba...
It is not his math but he did not provide all of the necessary information needed for the proper calculation..
He wrote, and I quote,
Okay...Let's start the analysis correctly...
(0.02053 Shekels/quart Babylonian)(8.33 gms Ag/Shekel) = 0.171 gms Ag/quart Babylonian
This means that
1 quart Babylonian = 0.171 gms Ag
So we are in agreement here to this point.
However Barley, today, is not sold in quart Babylonian. It is sold in cwt.
Well 1 cwt = 100 lbs.
Currently that price, from the article, is $5.25/100 lbs.
So the question is how much does the volume of a Babylonian Quart, OF BARLEY, weigh?
Well using this handy tool found here...
http://www.aqua-calc.com/calculate/volume-to-weight
Barley has a weight of 0.6 gms/cm3.
So how much VOLUME is in one Babylonian Quart?
From
http://www.britannica.com/science/measurement-system
we can find that the Babylonian Quart was about 99 to 102 millilitres. However I will write as 99 cm3 to 102 cm3. knowing that one Milliliter is equal to One CC or One cm3.
And 100 lbs = 45.3692 kilograms.
Now we finally have enough information for the proper calculation.
(0.6 gms Barley/cm3)(99 cm3 Barley/quart Babylonian) = 59.4 gms Barley/quart Babylonian
Thus...
(59.4 gms Barley/quart Babylonian)(1 quart Babylonian/0.171 gms Ag) = 347.37 gms Barley/gms Ag
So 1 gram of Silver would buy 347.37 gms of Barley back in Ancient Babylon
So with that...
(347.37 gms Barley/gms Ag)(31.103 gms Ag/ozt Ag) = 10,804.25 gms Barley/ozt Ag
or
10.804 kg Barley/ozt Ag
knowing that there are 1000 gms per kilogram.
Using that figure yelds...
(10.804 kg Barley/ozt Ag)(100 lbs/45.3692 kg)(1 cwt/100 lbs) = 2.381 cwt Barley/ozt Ag)
Well that means that One Troy Ounce of Silver would buy 2.381 cwt of Barley in Ancient Babylon had cwts existed as a unit of measurement.
If that is the case then what does ONE CWT of Barley cost in terms of Ag?
Easy. It is the inverse.
.0.4199 ozt of Silver buys a CWT of Barley in Ancient Babylon.
And if we were to multiply that number by the price of a Troy Ounce of Silver in today's FUCKED UP FIAT US PIECE OF SHIT DOLLARS???
(0.4199 ozt Ag/CWT Barley)($13.75/ozt Ag) = $5.77/CWT Barley
Now perhaps he used the 102 cm3 figure. And if I did then I can Multiply my answer by 99 and divide it by 102 and come up with $5.60.
Perhaps I do not know exactly what figures that he used as he did not provide all of the relevant information.(He does not have to. It is not a formal thesis after all.)
BUT I DO KNOW THAT HE IS IN THE BALLPARK...and as for you?
You are nowhere near.
You FAILED to understand that you did not have all of the necessary information.
Then you FAILED to do the necessary RESEARCH....because of your INTELLECTUAL LAZINESS.
And then you claim that he is wrong without having anything to substantiate it?
Science Dammit.
You people are Allah ackhbar-ing innumerate.
This is shit that you are supposed to learn...IN GRAMMAR SCHOOL and HIGH SCHOOL at the latest.
I think math was one of the first things dumbed down in the curriculum back in the late 80's/early 90's. High school geometry used to teach two column proofs using definitions, theorums and postulates, leading to a conclusion. Now, I understand it's a standard to write some sort of half assed paragraph to come to a conclusion. And since English and vocabulary were the combined second/third skill reduction, that paragraph has got to be a doozey these days.
I was too lazy to go through the efforts you did. I looked at the numbers and mentally they were pretty close, +/- 10% or so (with some slack for windage).
But kudos, I believe you come from an even earlier epoch than I, who suffered the great dumbing of the sixties.
I am a product of the Califormia Public School System in the the late 1960s and early 1970s.
However I went to Private School for High School as I was afflicted with Cerebral Palsy and Santana High booted me because they could not protect me from the bullying.
We still had some good schools back then.
I'll be damned, our football teams played each other. Class o'77.
Tall Tom ........ that was epic and very much appreciated - providing both a chuckle and a reminder of how mentally lazy we seem to have become ...... I wish my sons teachers were so detailed in thier analysis
who cares.. u gonna live 23 centuries?
Yes. I will live eternally.
But since you are writing of the practical, and making that statement, it seems that you have missed the point.
Like it or not this economy is failing. The US Dollar is losing the World Reserve Currency status that you have enjoyed.
It is apparent that we are in an extreme deflationary environment. Monetary Velocity is currently NEGATIVE.
However when Market Corrections happen it is a historical fact that the correction overshoots to the other side and that usually happens rapidly.
If a market is oversold for an extended length of time then it usually corrects to the overbought side rapidly. It is called a WHIPSAW.
The deflationary environement will probably overcorrect into a inflationary environment rapidly. If we experience a HYPERDEFLATION then we will get a HYPERINFLATION before any normalty is restored.
I do not know why you are here. You do not seem to even know the basics about the dynamics of the Marketplace and you are posting on a Financial Website. Many people here do not.
Gold and Silver Ownership are an Insurance Policy for periods of Financial instability. We have been in that storm for quite awhile.
Gold is more basic and Silver is more volatile and is a little speculative.
Personally I am enjoying the low prices. I am a BUYER. I like buying low. I am only into higher prices if I seek to sell.
And I really do not care about what you do or if you survive the oncoming storm.
If you have ears to hear, then hear. If you have eyes to see then see. And if you are both blind and deaf then you will succumb as the game goes to the swift and nimble.
And that is YOUR PROBLEM and not mine.
That's a lot of work to split a few hairs. The salient point is that PM or silver in this case, holds the same value over a great span of time. I get that without all of the math bullshit.
You might do well to find a little humility and a little less arrogance, Tom. If you need an example of this, pls re-read your comment above.
The price of Goods is both measurable and QUANTIFIABLE.
A Standard of Weights and Measures IS REQUIRED for any understanding of Financial or Economic analysis as that is how commodiries are traded.
Oh I realize that you may understand the point.
But when others do not, or, resort to utter BULLSHIT in a vain attempt to split hairs, then I will shred them apart. Theit analysis was BULLSHIT and then they attempt to IMPEADH THE CREDIBILITY OF THE AUTHOR by spreading that filth of misinformation.
And it is the EPITOME OF ARROGANCE to think that my analysis was for your benefit. It is NOT ALL ANOUT YOU.
Yes you may inderstand the point...
But for those who will believe that BULLSHIT written in order to unfairly impeach the author...That is my target audience.
NOT YOU.
People who care about posterity lack intelligence
People who care about short term, 45 years, prosperity are intelligent/
Just and sustainable lacks intelligence........
Good Grief
Leave it to your kind to try and make recorded history illegal knowledge.
Oh Plad... Momma Yellen's calling, time to come inside.
What worries me more is if some ancient farmer was able to get $5.24 / CWT then with modern mechanized farming and fertilizers we are getting the same per CWT in Silver..... Well some margin taking middle man is making a killing today.
Goldman????
"When denominated in silver, the price of barley is almost exactly the same as it was thousands of years ago."
That is interesting. Both production of silver and grain have been heavily mechanized, and as such have remained at about the same value relative to each other. I daresay that the prices of each in terms of human labor have fallen drastically.
Correct. We have a much higher standard of living at the present. But that too shall pass.
"Silver is the most efficient conductor of electricity on a unit cost basis."
I think you're talking shit. Silver is only 5% better as a conductor than copper and the cost difference is huge. Wikipedia entry for Electrical_conductor states:
"Silver is more 'conductive' than copper, but due to cost it is not practical in most cases. However, it is used in specialized equipment, such as satellites, and as a thin plating to mitigate skin effect losses at high frequencies.
He cut and pasted his post from this
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-19/physical-sales-surge-paper-pric...
He was comparing Silver against that of Gold in that initial post. He is correct that Silver is a better conductor than Gold and much less expensive than Gold.
He failed to edit his previous post before posting it here.
Other than that mistake his information is accurate...
Where quality is concerned, accept no substitues - I recapped my old mixing board a little while back, and for damn sure I went through an ounce and a half of silver solder. Gold for external connections and silver for internal.
Did they make beer from barley then?
That would be the most profitable trade in regards to barley, and that's why barley keeps its price well for 23 century.
Indeed. It is nearly worthless to compare commodity X to commodity Y and then proclaim "the value of commodity Y has stayed the same!". Shouldn't we be looking at other commodities from Babylon for a real analysis about the value of silver? What about chariots? Or Babylonian real estate? I'm willing to bet a a few pounds of silver buys WAY more real estate in modern Iraq than ancient Babylon.
indeed, barley isnt the near-ubiquitous staple it was back then, and silver is (defacto) demonetarised - tho that is balanced by industrial application demand
The relative value of silver in ancient history was hundreds of times more than today. You statement is correct, relative values of a cherry picked commodity is useless.
Essentially, the relative value of silver is about 1/100th to 1/200th of what it was 1000 to 2000 years ago. Silver HASN'T kept it's value throughout history as the bugs like to profess.
One example is that 700 years ago, the annual wages for a labourer was about 2 pounds of silver a YEAR.
Who today is going to work for 2 pounds of silver a year? 14.5*2*$14 = $406
Yet multiply that by 100 to 200 and the numbers are in the right range.
We have a higher standard of living presently.
That will not last for much longer.
The USA is headed toward total destitution and 3rd World Status.
People in Timor-Leste live on $400 PER YEAR.
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/GNI_PPP_of_countries.htm
Yes it can be much, much worse.
You can bet that it will be.
I think putting Hops in Beer is one of the worlds great inventions. I do.
Reinheitsgebot...The German Beer Purity Law... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinheitsgebot The homebrewers out there know about these things. Cheers!
The gods likely brewed beer long before they started breeding humans.
http://www.ancient.eu/article/222/
Ninkasi, goddess of beer, daughter of Enki.
interesting, the stories of enki and enlil
but if you believe those then you have to pitch the bible!
Who measures barley in quarts unless they're talking about beer?
Bah, Humbug. It's a useless relic! Oh wait, that's gold. Silver has some actual uses in industry, so I guess that makes it worth something.
It is consumable, so it is manipulated to keep silver consuming businesses profitable.
But the ebb and flo' will make you po'.
Bought a pound of Silver Eagles on Friday. Should be getting them in the mail tomorrow or the next day.
14.5833 Troy ounces.
I prefer bars. Well done ;-)
Have a few bars, but I think having actual US silver coins would be easier to convince potential trading partners to do business. Plus I think they're purty.
Almost up to a monster box, little at a time.
Eagles are nice and I made a killing on 5-Oz Libertads these past years..but there's just something magical to me about that chunk-feeling of a JM Kilo bar..love it.
value is meaningless when purchasing goods. I prefer "naked" easily tradable metal.
When shit hits the fan, no one cares about colonial stamps, and heritage... It's sad, but true.
A few years ago my wife and I took our first, and so far last, vacation ever.
We toured the east coast (train, boat, car, subway, segway, everything but a submarine), hitting pretty much every eastern state all the way to Maine, then into Canada across to Chicago.
At Niagara Falls, my bankcard was locked up in hotel holds and 'currency exchanges' for a day. I carry four eagles in my pocket all the time. Went to a pawn shop there in Canada and sold two for US spot price at that time (roughly $20 each). Exchange rate then was par.
Saved our day, got on the Maid of the Mist and took a ton of pictures...that were relieved, along with our camera, by the TSA in Chicago. No explanation given. All the photos we have of that trip are what I uploaded in Florida.
Good point, upload them before attempting to cross confication points.
I like all my silver - just hope I never lose it all in a boating accident.
Download the Cole report in Excel format. It lists the average price of commodities in several American cities from the late 1700's until 1861 (when Lincoln threw the Constitution out the window). Take averages for the recorded period (I started in 1800 to avoid dealing with foreign currency conversions). Use the prevailing value of $21.87/ounce gold and 15/1 ratio gold/silver and you will find that gold/silver bought the same amount of commodities over that 100 year period (pre-Fed). About 225 lbs bacon/oz gold; 200 lbs beef; etc.
That is how I think of the value of gold/silver. The dollar/euro/yen/etc. are just temporary distractions for the little people. You need to understand real values for when the final reset occurs.
gotta good link for that report? I'm looking now, but if you could post one I'm sure we'd all appreciate it. thanks!
Try this. The Excel link is there.
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/econ/cipr/cole-historical-data.html
+1, thx.
great! thanks man....I was still searching but wasn't finding the right "key" words to get a hit. thanks again
Revision! Gold was at $20.67 during this period.
I hope that a lot of people a lot smarter than me will be able to discern the proper value of gold/silver vs. commodities and retail "things" based on historical information derived during periods of "hard metal" currency. I started looking at items from a 1909 Sears catalog to try to determine what a pair of jeans or a "washing machine" should cost in terms of gold but didn't get far.
I think that we will need to know how to calculate these things sooner rather than later as the system implodes.
Stormtrooper: I've left this example at least two other times on Zerohedge. The last time, silver was $15 per ounce. Here it is again:
In 1923 at De Croes’ French Restaurant, Indianapolis, a t-bone steak. French fried potatoes, salad, hot biscuits and syrup, tea or coffee, sold for for 40 cents.
Four mercury dimes minted in 1923 contain a total of 0.29 troy ounces of silver.
Assuming the price of silver is $15 per troy ounce, tell me where you can get a t-bone steak dinner with all the trimmings today for $4.35. You can't even do that at Sizzler.
Source: http://restaurant-ingthroughhistory.com/restaurant-prices/
Original comment: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-26/golds-two-stories-paper-markets...
If you are subsidized by the government you can, heck after all it's "free".
OK, I want to play.
Chevy Pickup today 2016 1500 basic. $40,000, or 37 or so ounces of gold.
Chevy pickup in 1960? 1980? 2000?
Assembleages of "materials" such as cellphones and autos, etc, are complex to determine because of method or process and automation.
But I think ars are WAY overpriced because of financilization, which drove a KIA in 2004 at $8000 to $30,000 today, and gas was $1.70 a gal in 2004, and here it is in 2015-16 and gas is around $1.80 ish a gallon.
Compare the comodities in most purchased in the "45 year time frame" and you get the "value" of the commodities and products.
What is the value of a run of the mill car over 45 year time frame? Television? Cell phone? are they worth their individual materials in gold or silver?
A modern Cell Phone has about 40 cents in Gold and maybe 40 cents in Palladium.
I pay 20 cents.
In 1962 I could buy a gallon of gasoline for 3 dimes.
Today, I can buy about 1.5 gallons of gasoline for 3, 1962 dimes (melt value).
I'd look at the cost of a pair of socks in that catalogue and then calculate that money was 90% silver at the time (except pennies and nickles) and then figure that weight against today's spot price.
I'm at work now and don't feel like doing it myself.
"When denominated in silver, the price of barley is almost exactly the same as it was thousands of years ago."
Funny how that works ;-)
I "did not" know that...
Thanks nmewn.
lol...try explaining how pricing inflation into an asset actually works to one of these BitSter carnival barkers or Keynesian paper pushers hanging around here and watch their eyes bulge out of their sockets and spittle form in the corner of their mouths screaming about "value"!!!
Its really great sport ;-)
I think we're starting to make some sense, to the youngsters.
What about when it was $40
Barley was twice as expensive in 2011.
"All paper money returns to it's intrinsic value...zero."
-Voltaire
Interestingly, gold held up pretty well during the Yellen circus. Don`t think I`d like to be short at the mo.
"At 8.33 grams per shekel, this would be equivalent to about 0.171 grams of silver per quart, or about $3.75 based on today’s silver price."
Methinks you might be confusing grams and ounces. .171 grams of silver currently fetches less than 20 cents. Then again I'm calculating under the influence, so I may be wrong.
A troy oz is 31.1 gms
Furthermore the article is writing about the price for 100 lbs of Barley, a CWT...NOT a Babylonian Quart..which is a VOLUME. How much does that VOLUME weigh???
See my analysis above you allah ackbahr-ing idjit.
I cannot believe the level of iliteracy and innumeracy here on ZH.
The quality of the comments is rapidly declining.
You do not belong here.
Get off my porch. Go away. You cannot be of any use to Tyler. None. You are a fucking buffoon. Go. Leave.
You are a fuckin' illiterate and a fuckin' innumerate.
You are so intellectually lazy.
Go away.
I love silver! I like the healing properties of it.. Colloidal Silver is way better than it gets credit for. Kills Viruses, Bacteria and Fungus.. What more could you want. It is a really cool metal.. I love it! I think we will find even more out about it in the future. I have no doubt its worth its weight right now. I had a small wart appear on the side of my leg a few weeks ago. .. A little silver and bingo disappearo! ITs fucking awesome!
I take issue with the constant assertion that the metals currently are going to simply maintain asset purchasing power (vs. grain, oil, etc.). The various metal's value has been distorted to the downside by at least a factor of 10. Grain on a worldwide basis has also been distorted downward by government subsidies (distortions) in the market to perverse results. It is pure insanity to create fuel for vehicles that was extractively grown at the expense of the soil while pumping in tons of petroleum based agrichemicals which further destroy the soil. Though I digress; metals have a long way up to go up, at least 10x. The assertion that metals hold value is true over the long term. However, during times like those in which we currently live, the upside dislocation risk is enormous: 20x, 50x, etc..
"during times like those in which we currently live, the upside dislocation risk is enormous: 20x, 50x, etc.. "
Your right but given the alternatives like the dollar, when you live during a "darker" period which we seem to be in, when things final revert back, its the place to be? So its good long term wealth storage. Its been a good time to buy which is what Ive been doing for the past year or so. It could still be a while but my base wealth is in long term storage.. Having this stored long term allows me to feel safer with money in the market.
A corrupt government drives the price down, but the metal is still the safe/protection or store of value? They are just trying to shake you off it? If its not in your hands you dont own it.
I completely agree about maintaining positive control of your metals. Yes, I hold the belief based on a ton of evidence that the western governments are attempting to discourage metals buying globally, at least in their spheres of control, but everyone here knows that.
Yes silver holds it's value. It's now at $45/ounce, just like when I bought it 3 years ago.
Oh...wait...
I learned that painful lesson 10 or more years ago. Don't take a position all at once. Do it over time. You'll never make that same mistake again though, so there is that.
Christmas wish to a stranger....
Hold that shit for 12 more months. And I wish you so much success, that you don't give a rats ass about the temporary, though nail biting, 3 yr drop of $30.
Good luck
So has copper and lead.
Paragraph 17, "Future historians..............will wonder why we chose....."
We didn't fucking choose. We were swindled by a small group of psychopathic, greedy, thieves in 1913. Their malicious manefesto became the fed, when another greedy, spineless dimwit signed them into law. Right before Christmas. Since they were working so hard at stealing.....on Christmas vacation. .......I'm thinking they were not Christian.
That's true. There are plenty of "Devout Christians" that order double tap drone strikes on children (our current CIA director). There are plenty of "Christian" preachers that steal the utility money from old ladies on social security. There are also plenty of "Christian" men of the cloth that diddle little kids while threatnening them with eternal damnation if they tell anyone consequently destroying their lives. The lablel "Christian" is no different than Muslim. The Christians have their own evil just as deep as the Jihadists and many are in prominent positions of our government.
Pull it.
http://dollarcollapse.com/stock-prices/junk-bond-crisis-starts-to-metastasize/
They'll get those pension funds yet.
BUY SILVER!
Ah I remember my "buy silver crash JPM" campaign. A year before Keiser took it without any recognition. Those were the days....
If only I were there to explain the precipitous implication. Then maybe people would have recognized my indication....
I haven't heard Max utter the word Silver in almost a year now.
Bullish
Silver's shown me the powerful forces lined up against hard money and free markets.
It's been a real eye-opener. I never realized (when I bought the stuff) how badly they hate it and us.
We are seeing an ongoing war of wills since 1872.
Fuck you Simon.
No one on this planet will be alive in 23 years, let alone 23 centuries.
I shorted Silver on March 2011 when it was $48 per ounce. It's around $14 today.
Get rid of the Silver (and Gold) paper futures manipulation by Central Banks, and those PMs will seek their true value in a real market. That will require M-U-R-D-E-R of Central bankers and torture of those who would take their place.
Until then, take a "rational" approach to investing.
STFU and return to the line above until the social breakdown sequence begins.
Happy Holidays.
http://www.traditionaloven.com/metal/precious-metals/silver/convert-shek...
I've known people to invest at exactly the wrong time in markets, their entire lives. I've knwn people to invest in markets at exactly the right time in history their entire lives....reading the comments I can pick out who is who in each group.
Thank God my relatives of 23 centuries ago saved all their gold and silver. It was passed from one generation to another for 23 centuries. It was moved from Africa to the Middle East to Europe to Britain and finally to America. Moving 100 tons of gold and silver was tough...but deep down they knew they were doing it for the "kids".
23 centuries? 23 years? This article said nothing.
Another fucking illiterate and innumerate.
Tyler...Bring back the Math Captcha and get these fools out of here.
23 centuries? 23 years? This article said nothing.
Asset protection? If you have bought silver at the top in 2011, you have 3.8x less value now.
But it's right, in 23 centuries it is still of value - do you mind if I give a rat's ass about that?
Gold and silver are only worth investing if you believe it will go up in your life time which is different to everyone. I personally find those 6000 years or 23 centuries arguments are not constructive. There is no such thing - risk free. During those years, I am sure there are other investments are better than gold and silver and depends on when you were born in that time frame.
It is not an investment it is a hedge and a store of wealth. How many times do you need telling the basics here before you get it?
Also i might add it is one of the best ways of passing wealth down to your family, without your wreckless government getting their hands on any of it
How many fiat currencies survive the test of time?
None
How many civilizations last the test of time?
None
They often fail together.
The current monetary system was designed by bankers for bankers.
They take a cut at every step in the money creation process, for them it’s a great system.
They know it has a finite lifespan because it is debt based and uses compound interest, but it rewards them so handsomely they want to keep it going as long as humanly possible but the end is near.
They have created too much debt and the compound interest is overwhelming the system.
Wise up and leave your ignorance of money behind:
http://www.hiddensecretsofmoney.com/videos/episode-1
Watch all episodes, episode 4 describes the current monetary system.
Steve Forbes – Editor in Chief of Forbes Magazine endorses episode 4 (can be seen at the end) so it has very good credentials. He thinks the current monetary system is going to collapse too.
If you want to get in deeper read:
“Where does money come from” available from Amazon
The positive money alternative can be found on the Positive Money web-site, a great idea for a species that cannot manage debt.
The same ideas that were put forward in the 1930s in “The Chicago Plan” during our last reckless banker induced global recession.
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2012/wp12202.pdf
The monetary system requires prudent lending from bankers to ensure the compound interest does not get out of control.
What are bankers like at prudent lending?
“What is wrong with lending more money into the Chinese stock market?” Chinese banker recently
“What is wrong with lending more money into real estate?” Chinese banker last year
“What is wrong with lending more money to Greece?” European banker pre-2010
“What is wrong with a NINA (no income no asset) mortgage?” US banker pre-2008
“What is wrong with lending more money into real estate?” US banker pre-2008
“What is wrong with lending more money into real estate?” Irish banker pre-2008
“What is wrong with lending more money into real estate?” Spanish banker pre-2008
“What is wrong with lending more money into real estate?” Japanese banker pre-1989
“What is wrong with lending more money into real estate?” UK banker pre-1989
“What is wrong with lending more money into the US stock market?” US banker pre-1929
Globally incompetent.
This article needs fact checking -
Barley is currently around $5.50 / bushel. Silver is $14 thus 2.5 bu per oz silver
There are 37.2367 quarts in a bushel
37.24 quart * 2.5 bushel (1 oz of silver) = 93 quart / oz
$5.50 per bu / 37.24 quart = $0.15 / quart
A US Quart is not a Babylonian quart.
Look at my analysis above.
Where are you getting your figures?
Mine are documented.
Your units do not even divide out.
You are also an innumerate.
Please enlighten me as to the modern equivalent of a Babylonian quart, and to the modern definition of cwt as it pertains to barley. I know in cattle it refers to 100lb units - it may be different with grain.
This is a sales pitch for silver, no doubt about it.
But there are some logical problems to it.
The argument for Silver or Gold is that they are MONEY that HOLDS ITS VALUE.
Silver is not mined today in the same way it was mined 23 centuries ago. With technology much more silver should be produced for every unit of labor. MOREOVER, silver oxidizes in a way that gold does not. The silver is being used up, well converting to oxides that are disbursed as a powder and hence harder to gather and smelt back into silver. Hence Silver is becoming more rare.
Silver is not commonly used as money in the same way it was 23 centuries ago. And we don't know about Silver's industrial demand 23 centuries ago. Presumably it was used in jewelry and household implements. But if we count Silver's industrial value as roughly the same now as 23 centuries ago, then we can conclude that the OVERALL demand for silver IS MUCH LOWER TODAY than it was 23 centuries ago...because the monetary demand has been removed.
Grain is not grown using the same methods as it was 23 centuries ago. Modern fertilizers and machinery have made grain production vastly, vastly more efficient and productive. And we can say that relative to mining techniques, farming techniques have advanced further, faster.
This ought to have led, given the same demand for both commodities, to the price of grain DROPPING SHARPLY when denominated in Ancient Silver.
At the same time the lack of monetary demand for Modern Silver would be driving its price down relative to grain.
The fact that these factors balanced into a roughly equivalent ratio between the two, then, would seem to be a giant coincidence.
Given these fundamentals of each, I would expect that there is a floor in the value of Silver relative to other things, which fiat currency does not share. While the ability to produce new supply has grown, the overall demand has dropped because of the lack of demand for use as money.
Similarly there is no such floor in the value of grain. There is no practical limit to how much grain can be produced given advances in technology. Energy production and storage advances, for instance, make it much cheaper to produce grain and silver both, and it does make more grain available for production from the ground, but does not make more silver appear in the earth's crust. The delta is because grain is renewable, while silver is much less so.
CONCLUSION:
Silver's value relative to other commodities cannot go to zero. And the fundamentals of silver are at or near a floor. While the fundamentals of most other things are at or near a peak relative to the preceding 23 centuries.
Silver will absolutely vary widely in its value relative to other things...but on average will not be much lower than it is today. So, on any given date you might lose a lot of value by investing in silver, but you needn't lose if you simply wait a while.
At the same time, given risks in paper assets, there is very high appreciation potential in silver relative to other commodities.
So, yes.
Silver looks like it would be relatively a good speculation, hedge, and savings mechanism at the present time.
Are there any older 100oz Johnson Matthey bars out there available for $1 over spot?
I didn't think so.
I guess Provident is the lowest currently.