On Conspiracy Theories

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by HardScrabbleFarmer via The Burning Platform blog,

“In many nations, rational people end up believing crazy things, including (false) conspiracy theories. Those crazy thoughts can lead to violence, including terrorism. Many terrorist acts have been fueled by false conspiracy theories, and there is a good argument that some such acts would not have occurred in the absence of such theories. The key point—and, in a way, the most puzzling and disturbing one—is that the crazy thoughts are often held by people who are not crazy at all.”

Cass Sunstein- White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs

If you don’t know who Cass Sunstein is, or what he does now would be a good time to do some research. Not only because of his position with the White House and the power that entails, but because he understands quite clearly what problems are posed by people who, in his own words are, “…neither ignorant, not ill-educated. On the contrary they can be spectacularly well informed…”

Conspiracy theories are, in short, the belief that others conspire in secret to commit criminal acts. They do, no secret there. In fact the majority of prisoners in Federal Penitentiaries are serving time not for a specific crime, but for conspiracy to commit a felony, more simply discussing their intentions with another person in secret. It must be difficult indeed to simultaneously prosecute large numbers of people for the very activity that you are assigned to debunk and then somehow explain to people that it’s dangerous to believe in them. Yes, yes, you can imagine them saying, other people do engage in conspiracies, but we never would and you’d have to be crazy to even consider it.

Point taken, Mr. Sunstein.

Prior to the advent of the Internet there were few places where people could openly engage in any discussion of the misgivings they had about certain events. Mailing lists, fringe publications, but no open forum for expressing doubt and discovering the fundamental and underlying reasons behind such thoughts. Mr. Sunstein has often argued that the reason most people believe in conspiracy theories is because it makes them feel safe, a notion that is as hard to believe as the one that says the government would never engage in a conspiracy. If anything, the dawning realization that those entrusted to care for and protect you are engaged in a pattern of behaviors that are not only dangerous, but wantonly destructive to the very values and beliefs we hold most dear. To believe in a conspiracy committed by a government that is powerful, that is actively spying on it’s own people without legal justification and that appears immune to the law is not reassuring or comforting, it is terrifying. It is also, based on what we actually know for a fact, common sense

Let’s begin by covering a few basics-

Operation Northwoods

In 1962 the Department of Defense acting in cooperation with the Joint Chiefs of Staff submitted a paper detailing covert operation by either the CIA or other Government operatives to commit acts of terrorism against innocent American civilians, specifically to either hijack US commercial aircraft, shoot down commercial aircraft, attacks and kill US soldiers at Guantanamo or an attack on the Organization of American States with the intent of blaming the actions on Cuba in order to destabilize or overturn the government. These plans were signed and submitted by a host of top ranking US Military officials including the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Lyman Lemnitzer and submitted to the Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara who would later play a large role in the US war in Viet Nam.

None of the people involved in the research, planning, drafting or submission of this authorized government conspiracy was ever charged with a crime or held accountable. In fact the chief defense has always been that it was rejected by then President John F Kennedy, rendering further discussion null and void. Think about it for a moment and decide for yourself what the implications of such a plan mean for people who are, in the words of Cass Sunstein, spectacularly well informed, i.e conspiracy theorists. The government of the United States of America, using top secret clearance and taxpayer dollars actively plotted to murder innocent Americans in acts of terror in order to instigate a war on false grounds. To know this, according to the leading expert on conspiracy theories, makes us feel safer.

Incontrovertible proof that the government does in fact engage in criminal conspiracies that target innocent civilians in order to promote government sanctioned programs or military actions while it’s criminal participants escape justice has now been established as a fact, not a theory. Why this important piece of American history is unknown to most people is not puzzling, it is because it has been deliberately pushed off to the side, dismissed as irrelevant or pointless because it didn’t happen. Conspiracy theories do not require action, however, only the conspiracy.

One of the greatest issues the Government has in dealing with the conspiracies currently circulating is the ease with which the Internet allows them to propagate. While the vast majority of Americans have never heard of the Gulf of Tonkin, quite a few have heard the term “9/11 was an inside job” or know that something is not quite right about Sandy Hook. The ubiquitous nature of cell phone cameras has given people the ability to see for themselves without having to look through the lens of the MSM and depend upon sanitized news coverage to inform them of the details of various events taking place around the troubled world. The time when the government was kept in check by the 5th estate has long ago ceased to restrain them. The news organizations have become a tool of the establishment rather than a check on their power. The only option left is for either whistle blowers to come forward or citizen journalists to investigate on their own time and dime.

The MSM

Proof TV Media 100% Fake – Fake/Green Screen Compilation...

The Illusion of the Mainstream Media (MSM). #BreakTheIllusion

The sheer number of poorly faked news stories gives rise to the legitimate question, how many fake stories were done well? Why would any news organization feel that it is necessary to use false coverage to report actual news? It makes no sense to falsify something in order to tell the truth, so something else must be in play. The participants and producers are clearly aware of what they are doing when they use props or green screens, and since they are doing it without informing the viewing public it wouldn’t be unfair to call it a conspiracy. The more often these events are uncovered the less trust anyone feels in the institutions and representatives that commit these frauds on an unsuspecting population. Whether it is for altruistic or evil ends is irrelevant, the duplicity is it’s own crime and since it is done in secret, involving multiple parties we are left with little room to consider it as anything other than a conspiracy. That isn’t a theory, it’s a fact.

We live in an era that seems to be on the cutting edge of human civilization due to the proliferation of technically sophisticated gadgetry, but in many ways were are as ignorant and intellectually shallow as we have ever been, pacified by our good fortune, stable diets and creature comforts, bereft of the intellectual curiosity that has been the hallmark of cultures at their zenith. Grand sounding memes have been the trademark of great cultures, from Pax Romana to Rule Britannia. They are utilized to galvanize a people or a nation and lead them to greater heights and achievements or they serve as an epitaph on the gravestones of Empires, like Blood and Soil or Liberte’, Egalite’, Fraternite’. Numerous cultures experience a tumultuous birth, a meteoric rise and blossoming and slowly and inexorably decline into decadence and degeneracy.

Those who sit at the top of an empire in decline often employ the same tactics that their predecessors have used throughout history in order to remain in power; suppression of dissent, violent retaliation against those who resist, open condemnation of those who are often the most stalwart supporters of the earlier forms of the same government and eventually the emptying of the treasury and plundering of resources while the masses suffer. The employ various techniques of coercion and dependency as well as draconian measures in security and intelligence. One of the hallmarks of a failing regime is the way they turn a blind eye to the flagrant criminality of those at the top while increasingly stifling even the mildest forms of dissent at the bottom. Employing men like Cass Sunstein to float the idea that conspiracy theories are the seedbed of violent terrorist cells is only the beginning.

Many people believe that the restriction on free speech, the rise of the PC movement, the talk of microaggressions and safe spaces are about protecting marginalized minorities when in fact they are nothing more than tools used to entrench the positions of power, to eliminate resistance to their aims and objectives and to silence, once and for all every voice that fails to sing in the chorus of the State. The reason men like Cass Sunstein are employed by the State is because the veil has begun to fall. When people begin to question the veracity of the government, the next step, logically, is to question the legitimacy of the institutions that keep it in power. It is not a safe or reassuring thing to believe that your government is capable of plotting to kill you or those you love for it’s own ends, it is frightening, and demoralizing. It is also the first step in reclaiming our sovereignty. Just as no rational person would want to remain in a relationship with someone who repeatedly lies and cheats, neither would they be expected to offer allegiance to a State that would do worse.

Few people live in the natural world, experiencing the outdoors daily through all weather, dealing with real issues of life and death, the cycles of the seasons, the endless tasks associated with meeting our most fundamental needs, from feeding ourselves to teaching our own children the values and lessons that resonate with how we wish to live. For the rest of our population there is endless hours of mindless distraction, inhumane workplaces in unnatural environments far removed from the basic needs of life. We spend more time with people we hardly know than the ones we love the most, we eat food that we have no connection with and that fails to nourish, we depend more and more on a government that is further and further away from us, both in distance and in understanding, in short we have become disconnected from our own lives. Perhaps the first step in rectifying our situation is to begin to look at the world not as it could be, but how it is. To see things for what they are, to discard the falsehoods, no matter how pleasant they may seem in order to embrace the truth regardless of how painful it may be. And that’s not a theory, that’s a reality.

In closing I offer a speech filled with optimism in the face of desperation, hope in a time of bitter loss, and an appeal to the better part in all of us that calls out to be heard in times like these.

No man thinks more highly than I do of the patriotism, as well as abilities, of the very worthy gentlemen who have just addressed the House. But different men often see the same subject in different lights; and, therefore, I hope it will not be thought disrespectful to those gentlemen if, entertaining as I do, opinions of a character very opposite to theirs, I shall speak forth my sentiments freely, and without reserve. This is no time for ceremony. The question before the House is one of awful moment to this country. For my own part, I consider it as nothing less than a question of freedom or slavery; and in proportion to the magnitude of the subject ought to be the freedom of the debate. It is only in this way that we can hope to arrive at truth, and fulfil the great responsibility which we hold to God and our country. Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offence, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the majesty of heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.

Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. Is this the part of wise men, engaged in a great and arduous struggle for liberty? Are we disposed to be of the number of those who, having eyes, see not, and, having ears, hear not, the things which so nearly concern their temporal salvation? For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst, and to provide for it.

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided; and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past. And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the British ministry for the last ten years, to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves, and the House? Is it that insidious smile with which our petition has been lately received? Trust it not, sir; it will prove a snare to your feet. Suffer not yourselves to be betrayed with a kiss. Ask yourselves how this gracious reception of our petition comports with these war-like preparations which cover our waters and darken our land. Are fleets and armies necessary to a work of love and reconciliation? Have we shown ourselves so unwilling to be reconciled, that force must be called in to win back our love?

Let us not deceive ourselves, sir. These are the implements of war and subjugation; the last arguments to which kings resort. I ask, gentlemen, sir, what means this martial array, if its purpose be not to force us to submission? Can gentlemen assign any other possible motive for it? Has Great Britain any enemy, in this quarter of the world, to call for all this accumulation of navies and armies? No, sir, she has none. They are meant for us; they can be meant for no other. They are sent over to bind and rivet upon us those chains which the British ministry have been so long forging. And what have we to oppose to them? Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last ten years. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain.

Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves. Sir, we have done everything that could be done, to avert the storm which is now coming on. We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and Parliament. Our petitions have been slighted; our remonstrances have produced additional violence and insult; our supplications have been disregarded; and we have been spurned, with contempt, from the foot of the throne. In vain, after these things, may we indulge the fond hope of peace and reconciliation. There is no longer any room for hope. If we wish to be free² if we mean to preserve inviolate those inestimable privileges for which we have been so long contending²if we mean not basely to abandon the noble struggle in which we have been so long engaged, and which we have pledged ourselves never to abandon until the glorious object of our contest shall be obtained, we must fight! I repeat it, sir, we must fight! An appeal to arms and to the God of Hosts is all that is left us!

They tell us, sir, that we are weak; unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be the next week, or the next year? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Shall we gather strength by irresolution and inaction? Shall we acquire the means of effectual resistance, by lying supinely on our backs, and hugging the delusive phantom of hope, until our enemies shall have bound us hand and foot? Sir, we are not weak if we make a proper use of those means which the God of nature hath placed in our power.

Three millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us. Besides, sir, we shall not fight our battles alone. There is a just God who presides over the destinies of nations; and who will raise up friends to fight our battles for us. The battle, sir, is not to the strong alone; it is to the vigilant, the active, the brave. Besides, sir, we have no election. If we were base enough to desire it, it is now too late to retire from the contest. There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! Our chains are forged! Their clanking may be heard on the plains of Boston! The war is inevitable²and let it come! I repeat it, sir, let it come.

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace²but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

Patrick Henry

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Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Only the truly desperate or stoically determined can overcome their addiction to the comforting illusion. None of us believe the entire charade, just those parts that best fits our customized narrative. The Big Lie is that we all know its a lie....except those parts we wish to be the truth. This especially applies to those of us who claim to be awake.

MrNosey's picture

Yes the msm is the propaganda machine of choice used by all bankrupt governments, but as Clinton said 'we are losing the info war'......people are starting to wake up to the BS they churn out!

Unfortunately, The agenda rolls on......

http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2015/12/as-events-spiral-ou...

Captain Debtcrash's picture
Captain Debtcrash (not verified) MrNosey Dec 18, 2015 8:28 PM

There have been countless undisputed examples throughout American history that if brought up before and even for years after the fact would have been considered what we now call conspiracy theories. Here are a few examples that stuck out to me:

acetinker's picture

Oh yeah?  Properly inflate your balls and get back to me.

Look, I'm not a demon.  I don't even wish to disabuse you of your silly fairy tale, but please!

What sort of trauma have you experienced that makes it possible for you (and many more) to believe in talking shrubbery and other such supernatural bullshit?

The beauty, majesty and mystery of actual, observable Nature is more than sufficent evidence for me to accept the existence of Powers greater than myself.

Why do you need more?  I just want to know.

Oath_Keeper's picture

When you order food in a restaurant do you believe there is a cook?

acetinker's picture

Yes I do.  This is because I have physical evidence of his/her work in front of me and I can walk into the kitchen and shake his/her hand.

Shitty analogy, btw.

This one is better-

Imagine that you completely dis-assembled a Tissot, and placed its constituent parts in a Ball Jar.  Put the lid on it, and start shaking it.

How long would you need to shake that jar until it once again became a functional timepiece?

 

NidStyles's picture

These fuckers are just hiring out the Hollywood boys that advertise their latest talents with every movie release. 

acetinker's picture

Star Wars: The Force Awakens!  Fuck me!

I may be the only MOFO alive that has never seen a Star Wars movie-  I didn't 'get it' back then, and I don't 'get it' now.

Hunger Games on the other hand, seems relevant.

Seer's picture

Peanut butter, mostly!

P.S. does your cooking analogy allow the entry of the Flying Spaghetti Monster into this "discussion?"

WOWurstupid's picture

Ace every knee will bow. If you acknow;ledge demons, why not Jesus Christ?

A Lunatic's picture

I no longer expect any truth in this world.......

NidStyles's picture

The only truth is that which you make with your own two hands. 

ISEEIT's picture

This has all been distilled to a point where many now comprehend this:

Again...

And

Again..

And

Again.

Finem respice.

scrappy's picture

Time for the biggest truth commission in history.

True Blue's picture

I remember the East German citizens storming the headquarters of the STASI, taking every scrap of paper in that building. All those 'classified secrets' of what the government had been doing to the people out in the open for at least a few brief moments.

All I thought was -the truth shall set you free.

Veritas liberabit vos

With an obvious sense of irony, guess what the motto of the Clandestine Idiots and Assrags is.

Seer's picture

All comes rather easy when you start with the impossible premise of perpetual growth on a finite planet.  That belief allows you to distort reality, create Ponzi systems.  We're all in on it so we cannot say anything- the ultimate Prisoners' Dilemma!

Humans are deceptive.  It's survival.  We're NOT going to risk it by calling it like it is.

JustObserving's picture

Cass Sunstein is a traitor to the constitution and the republic.

How can you not mention 9/11? Or Gulf of Tonkin? Or Pearl Harbor?

Ex-Italian President: Intel Agencies Know 9/11 An Inside Job 


Man who blew the whistle on Gladio tells Italy's largest newspaper attacks were run by CIA, Mossad

Former Italian President and the man who revealed the existence of Operation Gladio, Francesco Cossiga, has gone public on 9/11, telling Italy’s most respected newspaper that the attacks were run by the CIA and Mossad and that this was common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies.

Cossiga was elected President of Italian Senate in July 1983 before being winning a landslide 1985 election to become President of the country in 1985.

Cossiga gained respect from opposition parties as one of a rare breed – an honest politician – and led the country for seven years until April 1992.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/ex-italian-president-intel-agencies-know-9-...

David Ray Griffin on Sunstein:

Former Chicago and Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein, who in 2009 was appointed by President Barack Obama to direct an important executive branch office, had in 2008 co-authored an article containing a plan for the government to prevent the spread of anti-government "conspiracy theories." Arguing that such theories are believed only by groups suffering from "informational isolation," he advocated the use of anonymous government agents to engage in "cognitive infiltration" of these groups in order to introduce "cognitive diversity," with the aim of breaking them up.

Noting that Sunstein's proposal has evoked condemnations from across the political spectrum--not least because it, being similar to the FBI's COINTELPRO of the 1960s, would be illegal--David Ray Griffin focuses on the fact that Sunstein's primary target is the conspiracy theory advocated by the 9/11 Truth Movement. Examining Sunstein's charge that this theory is both "harmful" and "demonstrably false," Griffin uses both satire and overwhelming evidence to show that this twofold charge applies instead to what Sunstein calls "the true conspiracy theory" about 9/11-namely, the "theory that Al-Qaeda was responsible for 9/11."

 

http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Infiltration-Appointees-Undermine-Conspi...

 

Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Karl Denninger posted this howler using a video of some guy in his garage with a forge to debunk 911 truthers. Not very convincing, but he sometimes posts things like this so he can ban any members who disagree with him.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230974

JustObserving's picture

Denninger is a total idiot if he believes that ridiculous, worthless video

Sanity Bear's picture

if you stopped at word #5 it would have been more than adequate for pinpoint accuracy

DavidPierre's picture

300 degrees difference?

Big fucking difference!

Such bullshit from Dennigger has him again FAILING ...  just like JIM QUINN the 9/11 Litmus Test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6O4LE0eTYc

Another MORON!

 

VWAndy's picture

Go look up a temperature color chart for steal. Its nearly white hot in the video. Roughly 2000 f. So his margine for error is nearer to 400 f. or 25%.  Heat up a 1 inch plate 12x12 with a 1600 f flame. Scale matters. 

 His proof is BS without an actual temp reading. He even admits its a hotter temp than jet fuel burns at. If that guy is a blacksmith he knows the temp chart by hart and could have waited until it was cherrie red. All he had to do was pull it out at the start of the video. Run his line until the temp was correct then do the test. But no and he took no temp readings.Why?

 So do the test right. Then explain building #7.

 

 

DavidPierre's picture

This sixth-grade-level demonstration that structural steel loses strength at 1,800°F does nothing to address the presence of molten metal at Ground Zero. If anything, he proves that the fires in the World Trade Center could not have generated the molten metal that witnesses saw. What did? The only plausible explanation is thermite, an incendiary that can be used to cut through structural steel.

Putting aside the molten metal, the demonstration is wholly irrelevant for the simple reason that the fires in the World Trade Center could not have heated the structure anywhere near as high as the 1,800°F to which he heated his piece of steel using a furnace.

Jet fuel fires reach temperatures of around 1,500°F only under optimal conditions.

In open air conditions like the WTC buildings, they burn at around 600°F.

Even according to the government agency that investigated the disaster, there is no evidence that any of the steel was heated to the point where it would lose its strength.

There have been literally hundreds of hotter, larger, longer-lasting fires in steel-frame high-rises over the last century, and never has one caused the total collapse of a building. Tye’s simplistic logic implies that many of these infernos should have led to a total collapse. Of course, none has — and that also goes for the three steel-frame high-rises that were destroyed on 9/11.

That this YouTube video has become an overnight sensation testifies to the alarming lack of journalistic rigor and scientific acumen with which the media and Dennigger has approached the debate surrounding the World Trade Center destruction on 9/11 — and to the rampant misinformation that has followed.

Anyone who thinks there might be some validity to this confused science experiment should visit AE911Truth.org and to read their most recent publication, Beyond Misinformation: What Science Says About the Destruction of World Trade Center Buildings 1, 2, and 7, for real expert analysis of the evidence.

The Joker's picture

All you really need to say is nanothermite is not indigenous to manhatten.

moneybots's picture

"All you really need to say is nanothermite is not indigenous to manhatten."

 

There was no nano thermite.

Ralph Spoilsport's picture

The debunker (Over 6 million views? Really?) is debunked. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3054354191&featur...

Also, Denninger admitted in a later comment he only posted this to lure members who don't buy the party line about 911 so he could ban them. Very few posters from ZH could survive having a membership on market-ticker for even a week. Long live ZeroHedge.

VWAndy's picture

Somehow I have a hunch there is more here than meets the eye.

moneybots's picture

"Jet fuel fires reach temperatures of around 1,500°F only under optimal conditions.

In open air conditions like the WTC buildings, they burn at around 600°F."

 

Doesn't really matter.  Office combustibles were the real problem.  That is why fire retardant is sprayed on structural steel.  Jet fuel is seldom a factor in any office building fire.

Flames were floor to ceiling and beyond, pouring out the windows.  That was a hot fire.

"There have been literally hundreds of hotter, larger, longer-lasting fires in steel-frame high-rises over the last century, and never has one caused the total collapse of a building."

None of those buildings were constructed the way the Towers were, a point that is unscientifically ignored by the critics.

The Windsor Tower had a partial collapse, which would have become a total collapse, had it been totally constructed in the manner of the floors that collapsed.

The totally out of control fires were what caused the Towers to collapse.

"That this YouTube video has become an overnight sensation testifies to the alarming lack of journalistic rigor and scientific acumen with which the media and Dennigger has approached the debate surrounding the World Trade Center destruction"

You make me laugh.

Ralph Spoilsport's picture

"You make me laugh."

That's odd, since you're the clown here.

moneybots's picture

"You make me laugh."

"That's odd, since you're the clown here."

 

The clowns want people to falsely believe the Towers were demoed.

 


moneybots's picture

"This sixth-grade-level demonstration that structural steel loses strength at 1,800°F does nothing to address the presence of molten metal at Ground Zero. If anything, he proves that the fires in the World Trade Center could not have generated the molten metal that witnesses saw. What did? The only plausible explanation is thermite, an incendiary that can be used to cut through structural steel."

Thermite is in no way a plausable explanation for molten metal- of which there is no video or pictures of in the debris.

A metal cutting torch does not produce molten metal in any material amount, thus thermite would not have produced any material amount, either.

MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Is the guy in the video the same guy that used to make vids with him bashing up old computer monitors in his shed while screaming about the administration and the 2008 crash?

moneybots's picture

Actually, it was very convincing science.

Fire weakens structual steel.  Fire raged out of control in both Towers.

Both coillapsed as a result.

Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Those were oxygen starved fires fed by paper and office furnishings. The core columns were a hell of a lot thicker than steel bars the size of rebar. Not to mention they were encased in concrete as per building codes. If you think this video was convincing science, your handlers didn't prepare you very well to play with the adults here who are tired of bullshit like yours.

moneybots's picture

"Those were oxygen starved fires fed by paper and office furnishings."

 

The fires were not oxygen starved.  The flames were floor to ceiling.  

"The core columns were a hell of a lot thicker than steel bars the size of rebar."

Scientifically irrelavent.  The fire was hot and it negatively affected the structural steel to the point that it lost enough strength for there to be a catastrophic failure within the fire zone.

"If you think this video was convincing science, your handlers didn't prepare you very well to play with the adults here who are tired of bullshit like yours."

You have a vivid unscientific imagination.

Ralph Spoilsport's picture

OK Mr. Science, you've done yourself in by specifying the fire zone. How did office fires, which were burning with an orange flame and producing a lot of smoke and only on the upper floors, compromise the lower parts of the structure where the core columns were even thicker? Your level of scientific expertise ends at operating a microwave oven and you probably screw the pooch with that too.

Troll begone. You're too stupid to waste any more time on.

moneybots's picture

"OK Mr. Science, you've done yourself in by specifying the fire zone"

No, the fake conspiracy science has done itself in.

 

"How did office fires, which were burning with an orange flame and producing a lot of smoke and only on the upper floors, compromise the lower parts of the structure where the core columns were even thicker?"

The orange flames were hot, floor to ceiling ferocious flames.  Fires do produce smoke.  Fire retardant is sprayed on structural steel because office fires can cause structural steel to FAIL.  Otherwise they wouldn't bother with the expense of spraying it.  Pretending that the color of smoke and fire makes impossible for steel to fail is disproven by the requirement of fire retardant to protect the steel from orange flames produced by office fires.

The columns may have been thicker below the fire zone, but the flanges that connected the floors to the columns were not. Tons of falling debris has a lot of kinetic energy.  The floors were stripped of their connections to the columns.

The top 15 floors of One World Trade fell down upon the remaining 95.  Each floor collapsing below it added to the debris raining down on each remaining floor.  Cross members to core columns would have been taken out.

"Your level of scientific expertise ends at operating a microwave oven and you probably screw the pooch with that too.

Troll begone. You're too stupid to waste any more time on."

I can see your level of scientific knowlege is confined to name calling, since you can't refute anything i said.




Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Since you get paid by the post, you just continue to embarrass yourself for a few more shekels.

 

moneybots's picture

"Since you get paid by the post, you just continue to embarrass yourself for a few more shekels."

 

I see your scientific knowlege consists of false imaginations, considering you couldn't refute a word i said.

yovatti's picture
yovatti (not verified) Dec 18, 2015 7:43 PM

The overwhelming majority of the conspiracy theories are crazy and baseless. They are so non-sensical that the they really only appeal as an emotional salve to those who can't compete in the real world.

 

So don't be surprised when successful peiople think you're a whackjob.

geekz_rule's picture

lol. thanks for proving once and for all to the whole internet your either a troll.. or fucking moron

bamawatson's picture

he is one of the "successful peiople"

scrappy's picture

"successful people" hmnn you mean thieves that go along?

No offence to those that actually produce something and still care about their employees.

My neighbor who is a builder is adding an addition during these slow times.

Keeping his guys busy.

Hats off to him.

Winston Churchill's picture

Not mutually exclusive and maybe a prerequisite.

ebear's picture

Not so fast. The guy makes a valid point. If I can't jam the signal, then the next best thing is to drown it out in superfluous noise.

Tell me that isn't happening today on the net, just as the US used to jam Radio Moscow back in the day.

For that matter, you don't even need an active disinformation campaign, except in special cases. There are enough nut-jobs out there to sufficiently muddy up the waters, now that just about anyone can post to the net.

Final point: How would I know if a particular conspiracy theory was true or false? What method would I use to determine its validity, given that I'm further from the alleged facts that the person purporting to know them? In other words, why should I trust you any more than I trust the government?

People on this site claim to be critical thinkers, but apart from a few individuals, I don't really see that. What I see are people driven by their own willingness to believe, just like that poster Fox Mulder had on his office wall.

Sanity Bear's picture

anything people don't have a sense of humor about is a sore point that should be investigated further

MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

 

People on this site claim to be critical thinkers, but apart from a few individuals, I don't really see that. 

But don't you have the same quandry here?  

How would you know if your theory about ZH'ers was true or false? What method would you use to determine its validity, given that you're further from the alleged facts that the person purporting to know them?