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$20,000 Gold And The End Of "Pollyanna-ish Do-Goodery"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"They just won't let the scales balance... it is a rampant narcissistic megalomania that somehow some guy in a air-conditioned office can best repliacte the free market and centrally plan our affairs... Their starry-eyed pollyanna-ish do-goodery never seems to pan out."

 

In the flux of never before seen economic uncertainty, Stefan Molyneux and Mike Maloney discuss the difference between currency and money, the historical role of gold as money, the dependence of the United States government on Wall Street for tax revenue, the role of the Federal Reserve in the creation of unstable economic bubbles, the possibility of deflation, $20,000 gold and how you can protect yourself in these uncertain economic times.

 

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Sat, 12/19/2015 - 22:50 | 6944828 Shibumi2
Shibumi2's picture

Where do these people come from...and what are their credentials?

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:03 | 6944853 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Just two guys that probably read the Zero Hedge comment section.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:12 | 6944870 Manthong
Manthong's picture

..some really good stuff on Molyneux’s website.. https://freedomainradio.com/

 Maloney’s a dealer who has been around forever claiming gold will go to the moon one day. He has produced some really good videos.

https://www.youtube.com/user/whygoldandsilver/videos 

The only problem with $20K gold is that hot dogs will then cost $100.00.

 

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:15 | 6944883 NoMoJackboots
NoMoJackboots's picture

I guess that is OK with me. If gold goes to $20K per ounce, I will be one of the few that are able to afford hot dogs.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:22 | 6944897 Manthong
Manthong's picture

FU to the idiot(s) that would down vote my comment above.

If you had half the brain of a maggot, you would appreciate the contributions of both of those guys.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:24 | 6944902 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Wasn't me dude!

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:16 | 6945016 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

There's a lot of idiots here nowadays.  We should go back to a captcha.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:54 | 6945164 wee-weed up
wee-weed up's picture

 

 

I agree. I think there are some serial rabid junkers now here on ZH. I KNOW some of them pounce on my every comment here. I wouldn't be surprised if one of them even junked this statement. I would only hope ZH is weeding them out over time according to their cumulative junking habits.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:41 | 6945290 jefferson32
jefferson32's picture

Why do you care? Personally I'm more bothered by sophisticated pseudotrolls such as fonestar (whatever is his new name) whose goal it is to discredit technology/Bitcoin enthusiasts and thus to obfuscate the liberating characteristic of technology as well as the natural congruence between classical liberalism and crypto-anarchism.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:57 | 6945300 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Shit, and here I thought that mother fucker was representing bitcoin with authority.  I guess I need to go and read the dictionary.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:18 | 6945503 MarketAnarchist
MarketAnarchist's picture

Stefan Molyneux is an Anarcho-Capitalist (a consistent libertarian). He has degrees in history and a masters in philosophy. He runs the largest philosophy show on the web and has authored eight or nine books on anarchism.  All of them are free, because as a capitalist, he understands that copyrites and patents are statist violations of the free market.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 10:34 | 6945577 Bokkenrijder
Bokkenrijder's picture

$20.000 ? Per kilo you mean ? (currently $34.200 per kilo)

People, wake up! The world is spiraling QUICKY into DEflation! Everybody is working longer hours for the same/less pay. Everybody is getting screwed around by greedy CEO's and politicians, these people will NOT be spending, they will be saving or paying off debt.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 12:34 | 6946015 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture

$45,000 GOLD has long been prognosticated...

The question is when...

Only uncontrolled money printing (to the lucky .001%ers) and the FED are in the way...

NIRP and ZIRP shows us that the Fiats Joy Ride is nearing the end...

Mon, 12/21/2015 - 03:15 | 6947115 Manthong
Manthong's picture

“world is spiraling QUICKY into Deflation” 

It’s asymmetric..

The things you can do without are all going down in price..

The things that you must have or are stuck with... food.. health care.. utilities.. essential government services.. taxes.. are all going up.

When the dollar collapses EVERYTHING will hyper-inflate.

 

..and my last word on the petty BS..

It is unfortunate that ZH, like other bastions of rational thought and mostly conservative/libertarian culture (like southern and southwestern states)  are being infested by low-information flies (who just eat shit and bother people) who would rather not engage in constructive conversation and efforts.

Count my red votes.. you will see how many flies visited this thread.

 

Well.. OK so i was mis- spoken... hell, it worked for Bush... So...

Gold and the shares are poised for a rocket rise.

I had a trade that was 5 contracts for gold 1900 in 2011.

It cost me 50 bucks  at a nickel a share.

I made 600% on that trade even after the price of gold recinded.

But that marked the end of the real market.. they skewed it beyond reality after that.


 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:33 | 6945859 Four chan
Four chan's picture

at least that porn addict shit posting on here is no more.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:29 | 6945844 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

hey, a block chain anonymous coin with a gold backing like e-gold, had. ie the grams of gold where assigned to a user , but  they ran the  vault, and the netwrork ran the transactions, and i would be all over  a digital currency. somewhere someone would want the trade out of storage to   physical gold. and people would trade on the inherrant value. could have netweorked mining  based on how bitcoins are sposed to run when all the minning is done, fees pay the  network for  keeping it securely run. hey i think a gold backed digital currency, or even silver backed, would actually be more stabel than bitcoins. sure there is problems on who supplies the gold...  some sort of crowd funding, ea sponsor sends 1 oz of gold, gets a widget, and  an account number,  gets a start on the network. with their seed gold in the account. some cwentral clearing house in a freindly jurisdiction that wont come ahnd steal the gold? sure its tought o set up, but if done right,. the fees would be so low, the  value, so secure, the trust, 2nd to none.

 

id buy into it

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 06:32 | 6945342 Dame Ednas Possum
Dame Ednas Possum's picture

'... what are their credentials?'

Ha ha, yeah... because only members of the club are entitled to hold and express an opinion.

I guess you missed the point.

It's disappointing however tha Maloney and Molyneux don't just state outright that the apparent error of the Fed et al. is not some failed attempt to do the right thing by society... it is a successful attempt to wrong society by transferring the wealth of the masses into the hands of the few.

These criminals know exactly what they are doing and for the benefit of whom.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:59 | 6945563 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yup.  The purpose of the Fed is pillaging, nothing more.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:05 | 6945764 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

You will know the fed has made it's very first error, when every fed official is hanging from a lamp post.

Mon, 12/21/2015 - 13:21 | 6949431 RedDwarf
RedDwarf's picture

Actually, while he didn't do so in this video, Stefan has talked about this fact many times.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:06 | 6945487 Irish Yoga
Irish Yoga's picture

Don't worry about the junkers. They're nothing more than kids still living in Mom's basement.

Irish Proverb:
Talking with an Irishman is like getting a reach-around from a beautiful woman… except the Irishman’s got your ear.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:04 | 6946126 Vlad the Inhaler
Vlad the Inhaler's picture

You sound like a liberal college student.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 02:22 | 6945192 hxc
hxc's picture

I would agree, but you're calling others idiots while not knowing either of the guys in this video.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:21 | 6945280 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

Uhm no, I meant what I wrote - and yes of course I know them.  

[I bet they read the comment section]

Better?

Smile, you're on camera!

:)

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 03:47 | 6945258 spdrdr
spdrdr's picture

Jesus, yes!

The captcha (which was normally simple addition or multiplication) screened out a lot of these arseholes.

BRING BACK THE CAPTCHA!

 

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 06:04 | 6945330 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

The captca also prevented DOUBLE POSTING.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 12:18 | 6945967 nofluer
nofluer's picture

All captcha does is eliminate commenters... it doesn't sort them by content. For ex - my system is not capable of using captcha because I don't do Java. And most captcha screens that use flash appear in the clear, so you're not really screening anything but bots, and not many of those.

ie Captcha is just a PITA for valid users.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:38 | 6944936 Jack Buster
Jack Buster's picture

I went back up, to downvote your comment. And this one.  I'll sleep better knowing I irritated someone. ;)

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:15 | 6945001 Manthong
Manthong's picture

have a nice whack-off, whack off.

BTW, if gold ever goes to 20K, my f'n watch will be worth more than your annual income.

sleep tight, 3 week troll.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:21 | 6945028 LowerSlowerDela...
LowerSlowerDelaware_LSD's picture

I'm disappointed that CoinHead isn't chiming in selling Bitcoin on every other post.  He's very entertaining.  <sigh...>

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:58 | 6945096 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I'm going to throw a silver round at him, he can throw a bitcoin at me.  We'll see who blinks first.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:13 | 6945792 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

Personally, I am glad he is not around. For awhile he was hijacking every thread to argue incessantly with posters who seemed more than happy to feed his desire for attention.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 12:04 | 6945950 Manthong
Manthong's picture

To all of those whose reduced intellect and personality disorder led to the need to down vote my accurate and well intentioned comment regarding Messrs. Maloney and Molyneux and even follow up with additional witlessness...

It is unfortunate that when you look in a mirror you see a person who is demonstrably k selected.

But at least the good news in your mind is that you have been blessed with an extra chromosome 21.

Since you do not understand what I just said here, go look it up.

Oops, sorry, I forgot for a moment that you folks embrace ignorance.

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 14:17 | 6946363 Consuelo
Consuelo's picture

I didn't down-vote you, so there's that.    However, I am curious - how long have you been following Mr. Maloney...?   Have you ever heard of a guy named Robert Kiyosaki...?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 19:15 | 6947137 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Yep.. I think I stumbled across Maloney about 5 years ago and they did a number of productions together and I think Robert has an investment "Rich Dad" meme he still promotes.

Maloney is correct in his assertions, but none of us could have predicted that the Fed and the PTB were going to usurp the free market to the degree that they did.

It is un-American, un-Constitutional, criminal and immoral what they have done.

They must be brought to justice.. one way or the other.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:26 | 6945044 beemasters
beemasters's picture

"if gold ever goes to 20K, my f'n watch will be worth more than your annual income"

The question is: Will you still be alive to enjoy it???

Wake me up if/when it's back to $1900.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:34 | 6945059 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

In euros, yen, or rubles?

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:23 | 6944898 xavi1951
xavi1951's picture

Mike Maloney's last video acknowledged that gold could go down to the $500 mark before any chance of an increase.  It's right where it was when I bought my vault of the stuff.  He was talking with Dent and they were not in complete sync on gold.  Dent thinks the dollar will survive, and gold will just go down.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:40 | 6944943 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

"Dent thinks the dollar will survive, and gold will just go down."

because the american dollar has outperformed gold for like 6000 years, right?

dent is a douche and you flirt with douchebaggery giving him credo

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:25 | 6945031 Manthong
Manthong's picture

The FRN is not really a dollar, at least according to the Constitution.

It's a part of the banker's scam, like the Federal in Federal Reserve Bank.

As it is, adjusted for inflation, the FRN has lost 97% of its value since inception.

No pure fiat has ever not gone to zero over time.

The FRN is having its last hurrah and is only supported by armaments.. like the Roman denarius was before Rome fell.

https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/02/28/the-decline-and-fall-of-...

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:04 | 6945108 TheReplacement
TheReplacement's picture

To be honest, I can absolutely see that scenario play out.  Of course, the price of gold will not matter in that event as we will all be in death, I mean re-education, camps.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:02 | 6945267 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

If Au keeps going down, as it has for the past 4 years, explain to me how it's "A store of value". 

Especially when stocks and groceries have gone up. 

Can you handle the cognitive dissonance, w/o getting defensive or aggressive?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 06:27 | 6945339 SimplePrinciple
SimplePrinciple's picture

Groceries are a store of value until they go bad.  Gold never goes bad.  

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:02 | 6945404 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Gold's been going bad since 2011. And as for silver....

Having said that, unless it really is different this time, I expect the USD to continue its gradual depreciation against PMs at some point.

Whether I'll have been forced to sell all my PMs to purchase basic necessities by then is another matter.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 10:43 | 6945688 oddjob
oddjob's picture

cognitive dissonance?....Kirk you showed up here bemoaning PM's near 3 years after they topped out. Riding w/somebody that drives with the rear view mirror most likely will prove fatal.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:33 | 6945858 Doña K
Doña K's picture

Gold is a store of value during crises. Otherwise it's dormant.

Gold price is being supressed to mask the expansion.

We are now at a crisis and once TPRB loose control, gold will shine (pun intended)

Call gold buying an assymetric insurance.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:08 | 6944995 TurnwiseWiddershins
TurnwiseWiddershins's picture

Until you go to the hospital for that heart attack.  How many ounces will you cough up?  How much will mandatory Obamacare be?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 02:30 | 6945204 JustUsChickensHere
JustUsChickensHere's picture

Once you have serious health problems and are forced to accept your mortality, many things that used to hold your attention or worry you, cease to have any relevance.

FRN's, Silver, Gold, Bitcoin, the general ignorance of most people, the ELE that is Fukashima and so on? Not very important. Managing to take your next difficult breath? Critical.

 

Perspective is everything, and "On a long enough timeline.... " becomes a very short timeline.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:56 | 6945468 Dr. Spin
Dr. Spin's picture

Death is just a door that we ALL walk through...

Why are you afraid of it?  It's perfectly natural.

Spoctor Din

Mon, 12/21/2015 - 13:46 | 6949555 RedDwarf
RedDwarf's picture

It is fearing death that is perfectly natural, and not fearing it that is perverse.  Fear is a basic survival mechanism to specifically help escape death.  Humans are smart enough to understand time and their own inevitable death.  So they struggle with that dread.  It even leads many people to imagine that death is not real and final and is instead a doorway and that there is no 'final' death, even though they cannot prove that statement.

 

 

Wed, 12/30/2015 - 09:04 | 6977652 Dr. Spin
Dr. Spin's picture

What makes us "sapient" beings is our ability to differentiate between what is enlightenment and what is genetic programming. 

You are correct.  Look at the eyes bulge on a zebra being taken down by a croc.

;-) 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 02:57 | 6945223 CC Lemon
CC Lemon's picture

If gold goes to 20K per ounce, EVERYTHING is 20x the price. Which means many people will die. Literally. NOT figuratively. Riots, food stamps worth only 1/20 of what they can buy. Gas at $50 a gallon. Groceries 20 times as much. Half of Americans only have 1K, only enough to buy enough food for a couple days. You won't even make it to the hot dog stand. There won't be a hot dog stand. They'll be nothing but angry people who KNOW they'll be dead soon if they don't kill somebody else and take their shit.

There is NO WAY OUT.

Once this can becomes unkickable, there is a Roman Empire collapse. World wide Katrina aftermath. The people in charge ain't stupid. They are fucking TERRIFIED. That's why the post office has so many god damn bullets.

There is indeed a reset coming, but it's going to be Mother Earth Resetting a shitload of self-delusional talking monkeys.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:05 | 6945409 BigJim
BigJim's picture

If gold goes to 20k per ounce any time soon, it will be because the USD is losing its grip as WRC, inflation is finally taking hold, and people have started buying PMs in earnest again; ie, PM price appreciation will have outstripped most other items.

But I agree, the world will be a mess.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 14:03 | 6946312 oddjob
oddjob's picture

I dislike how you carefully project your inflation arguement upon others, people should buy Gold because the Banks are insolvent operations run by habitual criminals and liars. Deposits are unsafe.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 16:01 | 6946683 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 people should buy Gold because the Banks are insolvent...

Sure they should. But they don't.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:28 | 6945440 gswifty
gswifty's picture

I agree with most of what you say. But there is a but. Valuations can do what they want but if there is food availability than it doesn't matter. Me and my off-grid neighbors share food on occasion. I had the most delicious venison sausage the other night. But the masses in the flatlands are in for a rude awakening when their food sources dry up. These birth pains will either awaken many to a more natural lifestyle or throw much chaff into the fire, so to speak. People still have choices to make for themselves and their families. Ultimately, the choice is theirs.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:04 | 6946129 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

lets hope it happens during the countries worst Winter, 6' of snow 30 below for months.  It sounds cruel but it is actually a kindness.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:51 | 6946286 gswifty
gswifty's picture

Along similar yet  opposite lines I've wondered what would happen if the power grid went down in Florida in the middle of the summer for more than a few days. I would think that the dead will be pulled out of their non air conditioned houses by the tens of thousands. A modicum of natural selection would be restored.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:56 | 6945467 DownWithYogaPants
DownWithYogaPants's picture

I don't think your scaling works.  For example: between year 2000 and now gold went up but inflation did not go the 5x you see. There is some correlation but it's not total.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 03:55 | 6945262 Rock On Roger
Rock On Roger's picture

I'll grow and sell the lips and assholes to the fuckers who make the hot dogs.

 

For a gram.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:54 | 6945296 chairman of the...
chairman of the bored's picture

Unless you worked in a packing plant,lips and noses,lips and noses,lips and noses.

Never eaten a hot dog since....

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:46 | 6944954 tmosley
tmosley's picture

"The only problem with $20K gold is that hot dogs will then cost $100.00."

That may happen. The entire point of modern monetary policy is to stea purchasing power from regular jack-offs like you and me  As such, I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that happen.

They have to go back. If they have no place to go back to, then they have to hang from the neck until dead.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:19 | 6945023 Theosebes Goodfellow
Theosebes Goodfellow's picture

~"The only problem with $20K gold is that hot dogs will then cost $100.00."~

No they won't, Manthong. They'll cost a Mercury dime, just like they always have.  ;-)

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:57 | 6945938 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Indeed : -D.

..and a gallon of gas will cost two mercury dimes like it did most of the first half of the 20th century.

http://energy.gov/eere/vehicles/fact-835-august-25-average-historical-annual-gasoline-pump-price-1929-2013

 

Hey, this is kind of interesting. The unadjusted price of gasoline during this Saudi inspired oil glut seems to be back where it was before the 1970’s Saudi inspired oil embargo.

http://zfacts.com/gas-price-history-graph

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:43 | 6945074 Joe Sixpack
Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:03 | 6945482 JRobby
JRobby's picture

When gold goes to the moon lead (ammo) will be scarce so plan accordingly, think strategically.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:06 | 6945486 JRobby
JRobby's picture

dup

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 12:14 | 6945977 Irish Yoga
Irish Yoga's picture

Hot dog prices are already inching towards $100 yet gold is still sub $1100?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:52 | 6945293 Eirik Magnus Larssen
Eirik Magnus Larssen's picture

"Just two guys that probably read the Zero Hedge comment section."

This made me laugh for a minute straight.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:57 | 6946284 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Malmo rape stats and the arson epidemic in Sweden makes me Laugh every day..  One day wee erik they will come for you and you will wish for the 2nd amendment but you trusted your government bad move..

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:04 | 6944857 NoMoJackboots
NoMoJackboots's picture

Shit boomie; where do you come from, and what are your credentials?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:05 | 6944986 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

s/he's been on zero hedge for four and a half years.

that's like an engineering degree or a stint in the marines, right?

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:07 | 6944865 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Where do these people come from...and what are their credentials?

Found the Oberlin graduate.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:39 | 6944937 August
August's picture

Don't knock it.  Plenty of Oberlin graduates live kick-ass lives.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:54 | 6944974 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Fuckin LOL. Which tard downvoted the best Idiocracy reference ever?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:43 | 6945073 Midas
Midas's picture

Don't worry Scro'.  I'm sure the first poster has all the answers on how to fix the ecomony.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:56 | 6945093 Fester
Fester's picture

What

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:06 | 6945107 bonderøven-farm ass
bonderøven-farm ass's picture

What fucking tard would piss away their time watching (more less referencing) B-rated bijou?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:41 | 6945155 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Oh, go listen to some experimental jazz you culture snob.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:53 | 6945162 Midas
Midas's picture

So, no time to watch documentaries like Idiocracy, but still time to troll the comments at ZeroHedge.  Hmmmmm.... 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 02:02 | 6945171 Zero Point
Zero Point's picture

Documentary. Jesus, I hope not. I prefer to just think of it as a horror movie, because it MIGHT be fucking true.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:28 | 6945437 fiftybagger
Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:03 | 6945483 DownWithYogaPants
DownWithYogaPants's picture

I can't wait till Barry is out of the Whitehouse.  They'll never get the smell of monkeys out of the place but it will be fun when Trump is president.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:32 | 6945528 Dr. Spin
Dr. Spin's picture

#August,

Don't knock it.  Plenty of Oberlin graduates live kick-ass lives as statists...

FTFY

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:03 | 6944965 ZH Snob
ZH Snob's picture

what people don't understand is that when all the hoopla is over only PMs will be able to reset the debt monster the world has created.

at that point it will be so fucking obvious, every asshole in the world will claim to have known it all along.  especially the ones who never stacked any real money before.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:41 | 6945071 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

PMs and bullets.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:40 | 6945531 Dr. Spin
Dr. Spin's picture

Yup, Au Ag an Pb

an C2H6O an C10H14N2

;-)

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 07:46 | 6945387 Ola Nordmann
Ola Nordmann's picture

Maloney has some credibility:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAQmXaJEc7k 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 10:40 | 6945666 Deacon Frost
Deacon Frost's picture

 

 

The Frogs
Excerpt
By Aristophanes

Written 405 B.C. 

Often has it crossed my fancy, that the city loves to deal
With the very best and noblest members of her commonwealth, just as with our ancient coinage, and the newly-minted gold.
Yea for these, our sterling pieces, all of pure Athenian mould,
All of perfect die and metal, all the fairest of the fair,
All of workmanship unequalled, proved and valued everywhere
Both amongst our own Hellenes and Barbarians far away,
These we use not: but the worthless pinchbeck [an alloy of copper and zinc, mixed in proportions so that it closely resembles gold in appearance] coins of yesterday,
Vilest die and basest metal, now we always use instead.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:02 | 6946121 theallseeinggod
theallseeinggod's picture

how about judging an information based on its merit, not on who communicates it to you

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:12 | 6946158 MrNosey
MrNosey's picture

The problem is if gold reaches $20,000 then everything you need to purchase to survive i.e food, will also be hyper inflated, so nothing will be gained unless you like eating gold of course!

The agenda rolls on unabated......

http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2015/12/as-events-spiral-ou...

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 14:37 | 6946422 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

Good to see MDB is still around.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 22:50 | 6944830 Typing Typer
Typing Typer's picture

The problem with the "gold is going to boom" idea is that back during the First Great Depression the US government simply made owning of gold illegal, then posted a daily gold "price" which according to one record I read was just whatever the president made up that day.

So that can easily be done again, and if gold threatens any paper funny money power structures you can be sure gold will be declared illegal again, just like before.

Personally I'd rather own expensive diamonds. That way I can store my wealth in something portable, and have some to sell in the future.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 22:54 | 6944839 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, the problem is that was "legal" suppression, wasn't it?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:28 | 6945840 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

Drugs are also illegal, but they are also valuable and freely traded.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:05 | 6944860 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

I don't have any gold.

[shrugs]

Or silver!

;)

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:28 | 6944913 Omega_Man
Omega_Man's picture

not yet

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:13 | 6945007 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

replying to type type: only the people who turned their gold in lost their gold, especially if they never had it in a bank (bullion not gold certificates).  and the ones who owned gold mining shares made out better than bandits.  gold went from $22 to $35 (not whatever the president chose) in appreciating dollars.  gold miners went up five to seven times.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:16 | 6945429 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Gold did go from $20.67 to $35. But - at least according to this - FDR really did choose what the price would be:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=YRjmQLOscGoC&pg=PA193&lpg=PA193&dq=g...

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:24 | 6944900 PirateOfBaltimore
PirateOfBaltimore's picture

You can make diamonds in a lab. It's mere carbon.

 

People have been trying to turn lead to gold for eternity.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:32 | 6944921 Grave
Grave's picture

:rolleyes:
its already been done a long time ago using nuclear physics, particle accelerators, etc
but the value of required energy outweighs the value of created gold

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:06 | 6944993 punishmentnotrevenge
punishmentnotrevenge's picture

"using nuclear physics, particle accelerators, etc" If trying to create a black hole with the hadron collider out weighs the value of "created gold"  then they would have been shitting golden nuggets a long time ago!  Try again troll.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:20 | 6945125 Rakshas
Rakshas's picture

....... sheeeeeeeeeeet turning lead into gold has been going on ever since governments got guns.......

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:21 | 6945129 HopefulCynic
HopefulCynic's picture

Hahahahaha, quantum alchemy

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 05:21 | 6945308 . . . _ _ _ . . .
. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

The lead-lined walls in Chernobyl have been found to contain a not insignificant amount of gold through transmutation. Not worth the effort or cost yet, but that doesn't mean the technology one day won't be more efficient.

So what, if global supply of gold is doubled, at 20K/oz, 10K/oz is still a good store of value. This of course depends on the value of the reserve currency in force at the time.

Tue, 12/22/2015 - 15:00 | 6953572 HopefulCynic
HopefulCynic's picture

I call BS on that one. Transmutation can only happen at a sub atomic particle level, so it was completely unintended, so far there is no research showing that it can be pusposely done with any amount of energy, they have tried to reverse the process, to see what it would take but have been unable to do so. It is not only abourt rearrangement of molecules, but also modifying fields. 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:34 | 6945148 Jack's Raging B...
Jack&#039;s Raging Bile Duct's picture

value of required energy outweighs the value of created gold

Massive understatement. Shooting alpha particles and hoping some of atom stick is a woefully inefficient, inaccurate, expensive, energy intensive method that yields only technical yields. Saying that gold has been transmuted but isn't cost effective is like claiming that asteroid mining has already occured because an astronaut brought back a few samples of lunar crust in the 1960s.

:rolleyes:

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:48 | 6945085 lordbyroniv
lordbyroniv's picture

speaking of which

 

this website is selling below cost guys !!!!!!!!1

 

http://leadtogold.com/

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:38 | 6945152 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It's easy but hard. The quickest method will be to capture a gold-rich asteroid.

In the long run, the best thing to hold will be something other than PMs. We need to accept that fact. But until that time, PMs will be a good thing to own.

Just pay attention, and flip out of that shit before they start dropping PM bombs from low earth orbit.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:34 | 6944928 Tejano
Tejano's picture

Two things, Typer: gold does not, will not go "boom". Fiat currencies go "pop" or "crash!" or whatever. Always.

 

Gold does not threaten fiats and all that they support. They self destruct without any assistance.

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:39 | 6945065 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

If fiat goes "pop", a little gold could pay off a lot of existing fiat debt.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 10:00 | 6945565 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture

I have a gold maple earmarked for the purpose of paying of my weekend place when and if that time comes....

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:55 | 6945932 Buster Cherry
Buster Cherry's picture

I have a gold maple earmarked for the purpose of paying of my weekend place when and if that time comes....

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 17:14 | 6946867 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Because the PTB will never dream of indexing your debt, right...  Whatever they're favored fiat of the time will be legal tender and your still stuck.  I guy can dream but open your eyes in time.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:41 | 6944950 August
August's picture

>>>Personally I'd rather own expensive diamonds.

Have you ever tried to sell a diamond?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:20 | 6945281 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

Yes I have.  I went back to the same Hassidic diamond dealer in NY, from whom I bought the 1 Karat investment-grade diamond.

Given that I had it professionally appraised by another of his Tribesmen, meant that I had its "enduring value" established in writing, in 2012. When I sold it two years later (2014), I made a 20% profit in a private sale.

Good luck in making any profit for AU bought in 2012 (which I did), and selling it in 2014. I'm still holding that 'dog', having bought way too much (in $ terms and as % of portfolio) in 2011-2012 near the peak.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 04:24 | 6945284 Soul Glow
Soul Glow's picture

But if you bought that gold with dollars it would be worth +% in all other currency!

Think about that, get back to us, stop posting on ZH, and go read a fucking book.

:)

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 10:43 | 6945687 WSMassiv
WSMassiv's picture

There where many numismatic gold issues that increased as well, so you are wrong. Try comparing apples to apples. Your experience, is most likely a crock of shit. Selling stones is very difficult, I can only imagine a none professional spending uneconomical amounts of time on this venture. If you happen to pull that off, then you would also be intelligent  enough to know what you said was ignorant. Lol.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 17:16 | 6946870 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I solld them for a living Kirk, hard to beileve how stupid your private buyer was unless your diamond was blue, pink or red..

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 08:43 | 6945457 bluskyes
bluskyes's picture

Careful, diamods will burn away in a house fire.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:49 | 6944961 Squid-puppets a...
Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

Typing Typer - look up Greshams Law, whydoncha

sure, you can pull shenanigans like that - but if your autocratic 'price discovery' undervalues it, it will place itself in your enemies hands

case in point: West vs Asia circa 2000 - 2015

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:11 | 6944999 Volkodav
Volkodav's picture

diamonds will not "store your wealth"

diamonds are abundant. Cartel working...

between buy and sell is large..

and manufactured competition

actually other precious stones are much better investment

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:50 | 6945159 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Riddle me this Batman: If diamonds are so damn rare, then how is it that every wife in the USA, Europe, and Japan has one on her finger?

White diamonds are a scam, colored diamonds and other precious gemstones are not. 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 23:02 | 6945270 Typing Typer
Typing Typer's picture

Bthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:23 | 6945518 BigJim
BigJim's picture

 Personally I'd rather own expensive diamonds. That way I can store my wealth in something portable, and have some to sell in the future.

You do get a lot of bang per ounce with high end diamonds. But they're not fungible; every diamond is different, and requires appraisal, and the bid/ask spread tends to be high relative to bullion coins. The level of expertise required to avoid being ripped off is a lot higher than that required to deal in coins. And diamonds are not (practicably speaking) divisible, either; in extremis you can cut a gold or silver coin up (pieces of eight, anyone?) to unlock part of its value.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 11:49 | 6945910 Mr.Danglemeat
Mr.Danglemeat's picture

I've been inside of the "Russian Diamond Trust", I've seen Mountains of uncut stones as big as Quail eggs and bags upon bags of 3-4 Carat and larger stones. All off of the market because DeBeers cut a deal with the Govt. to regulate supply. Diamonds are the most common gemstone in the world. You want rarity and value?, go to Burmese rubies.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 12:54 | 6946097 nofluer
nofluer's picture

Just FYI... diamonds are pretty much worthless.
1. As compressed pure carbon, they can burn. (they would not survive a house fire.)

2. They are brittle as hell and shatter easily.

3. There are so many of them around, they would be valueless. The only thing that gives diamonds any value at all is De beer's monopoly - which the Russians have pretty much destroyed.

So it is only the ignorance of the lower classes and the "rich" that gives them any "value" at all. Check out the wholesale price of diamonds... near enough to nothing to not matter. Australia has enough easily mined diamonds that they move piles of them around with big earth movers. Russia has huge piles of them. Canada has diamonds. "Investing" in diamonds is a really, really BAD idea. and if your girlfriend wants you to buy her diamonds (at a jewelry store) you need a new girlfriend... a smarter one.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 15:10 | 6946529 Typing Typer
Typing Typer's picture

Well maybe I'll just buy the land then up front and skip the diamond step.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 15:16 | 6946545 Typing Typer
Typing Typer's picture

I guess I'm past the edit timeline for the above post, I'll just add that I have been convinced from everyone's arguments that diamonds are a poor investment, so I'll just buy land directly and forget about diamonds.

Mon, 12/21/2015 - 14:10 | 6949685 RedDwarf
RedDwarf's picture

The vast majority of gold is owned by governments, cental banks, and a few power players.  With the exception of a few places like India, there is no significant quantity to confiscate and the act alone would trigger panic.  So no, that's not likely to happen again.

As for diamonds, that is a terrible plan.  Diamonds are not fungible, not liquid, not divisible, and worst they are just carbon in an interesting and useful form.  As once happened to aluminum, diamonds will go from being valuable to being trash once one of the many and myriad technologies for making synthetic diamonds cheaply comes to fruition and escapes De Beers payoffs to prevent it.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 22:52 | 6944832 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"...the historical role of gold as money, the dependence of the United States government on Wall Street for tax revenue, the role of the Federal Reserve in the creation of unstable economic bubbles..."

Oh do tell, popcorn anyone? ;-)

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 22:52 | 6944833 JustPrintMoreDuh
JustPrintMoreDuh's picture

How much is an ounce of Gold in Zimbabwe's currency?

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:11 | 6944873 DIscount Lion Safari
DIscount Lion Safari's picture

All of it?

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:31 | 6944922 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

I'll take "Infinite Amounts" for $500, Alex.

Oh, look! A Daily Double!

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:20 | 6945026 pitz
pitz's picture

About $1050 as Zimbawbwe now uses the USD$.

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 22:53 | 6944836 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Skip the youtube, I can summarize in two words: Gold, bitchez!

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:06 | 6944862 Golden Showers
Golden Showers's picture

Fuck. I just spent all my money on Oberlin Tuition to buy this. Fuck you ZeroHedge! I blame Tyler!

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:14 | 6945117 IridiumRebel
IridiumRebel's picture

Go to your safe zone. Cry softly. You'll feel better in no time!

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:01 | 6944931 Charles Offdensen
Charles Offdensen's picture

One Thing that people Forget when criticizing the gold to the moon arguement is that there are more people on the planet who can participate in the bidding of physical gold than there was in 1933 or in 1973, 1983, or 2003.

More people in Asia and the world over can bid for physical gold that can truly drive the price up regardless of paper manipulation. Only so many ounces to go around for a few billion people! Just saying.

For the record I tried!

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:24 | 6945038 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

True, but for the most part production of gold (and silver) has increased proportional to population growth, so this becomes somewhat normalized:

 

http://gold-silver.us/what_silver_gold_buys.html

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 06:39 | 6945344 beemasters
beemasters's picture

One thing you forget is that the price of gold these days is fixed not by demand of physical gold....plus it is now easier to fake gold....although faking fiats is probably whole lot easier IMHO. I dunno....never tried doing either. Any expert here?

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 13:01 | 6946118 nofluer
nofluer's picture

For faking US fiat the experts on that live in N Korea...

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 14:24 | 6946384 actionjacksonbrownie
actionjacksonbrownie's picture

I didn't know the cia had it's headquarters in N. Korea!

Sat, 12/19/2015 - 23:41 | 6944947 Flying Wombat
Flying Wombat's picture

Jim Rickards Analysis on Economy, Markets, Fed Rate Hike & 2016 Outlook

http://thenewsdoctors.com/jim-rickards-analysis-on-economy-markets-fed-rate-hike-2016-outlook/

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:06 | 6944989 Jones Johnson1
Jones Johnson1's picture

Bitcoin!

 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:16 | 6945017 HopefulCynic
HopefulCynic's picture

Forget 20K it will go to 100 billion USD, once the USD is completely devalued. We will also see 10 billion USD bills, that way almost every american can become a trillionaire at some point in theri lives. 

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 00:58 | 6945095 PoasterToaster
PoasterToaster's picture

Sweet.  That and our 15 minutes of fame each will round out a perfectly useless life.

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 09:22 | 6945510 fel.temp.reparatio
fel.temp.reparatio's picture

Exceptional!

Sun, 12/20/2015 - 01:00 | 6945099 VWAndy
VWAndy's picture

We should just start calling it the dine and dash economy.

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