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Meanwhile, Over At The "New York" Stock Exchange: Even More Lasers
Back in March, when looking at the main antenna array at the real "New York" Stock Exchange located off Route 17 and MacArthur Boulevard in Mahwah, New Jersey, we noticed something peculiar: instead of just housing various now traditional microwave dishes...
... a new device had quietly appeared.
The "device", as Extremetech explained in early 2014, was the AOptix IntelliMax laser (used in various US defense programs), and now generously provided by Anova to various very wealthy HFT clients - in exchange for a very generous installation and recurring monthly fee - who desired to eliminate the 0.18 millisecond microwave latency between the NYSE and Nasdaq, by going straight to laser.
High-frequency trading — the practice of making thousands of algorithmic stock trades per minute — is about to get a big boost in the USA. Anova, a company that specializes in deploying low-latency networks for stock trading, is completing an ultra-high-speed laser network between the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) and the NASDAQ. The link will be just a few nanoseconds faster than the current microwave and fiber-optic links — but in the world of high-frequency trading (HFT), those nanoseconds could result in millions of dollars in profits for the trading companies. Such is the insanity of the stock markets; such is the unbelievable capacity of HFT to create money out of almost nothing.
If you want to get a signal quickly from point A to point B, you basically have three options: fiber-optic cables, a network of microwave dishes, or laser links. Electrical (copper wire) networks are feasible over short runs, but their reduced functionality and bandwidth over longer runs makes them less desirable than fiber. Microwave (and even higher-frequency millimeter wave) networks also aren’t very high-bandwidth, but because they’re purpose-built, they can take a very direct route, significantly undercutting the latency of an oft-congested and round-about fiber network. Laser networks have all the advantages of microwave/millimeter wave networks, but they have higher bandwidth, and some very clever adaptive optics means they’re not impacted by bad weather. (Microwaves really hate inclement weather.)
Last year, Anova completed a laser network link between the London and Frankfurt stock exchanges, and now, it seems the company is nearing completion on a similar laser network between the NYSE and NASDAQ data centers in Mahwah and Carteret, New Jersey. In the case of both networks, Anova is using equipment provided by AOptix, an American company that is contracted by the US military to produce similar laser-based systems for ground-to-aircraft communications. Each AOptix base station is capable of “carrier-grade” availability (five nines, 99.999%) over a distance of 10 kilometers (6.2 miles). The route, which is about 35 miles as the crow flies and skirts the center of Newark, will probably feature around six or seven base stations, each of which will have a direct line of sight with its two nearest neighbors. The link speed, according to the AOptix tech specs, will be around 2Gbps — not exactly massive by fiber-optic standards, but more than enough for a few thousand trades per second.
The cost of building the network won’t have been cheap — probably a few million dollars — but that’s absolutely pennies for stock traders. (The new fiber link between London and Tokyo, which is also primarily for stock traders, will cost $1.5 billion.)
The exact latency improvement of the NYSE-NASDAQ laser network isn’t yet known, but over a distance of just 35 miles we’re probably talking about nanoseconds. A microwave system currently in place between Chicago and NYC — a straight-line distance of around 800 miles — has a latency of 4.13 milliseconds. Scaling that down to 35 miles (dividing it by 23), you get a latency of 0.18 milliseconds between the NYSE and NASDAQ. I don’t know how fast the existing fiber/microwave links are, but even a difference of a few nanoseconds would be enough to beat out other high-frequency trading companies that are using older, slower networks. Anova, unsurprisingly, says it has dozens of trading firms who want to use the new laser network, all of which could stand to boost their profits. Though, as with all HFT technology, once everyone is using it (or something comparable) profit levels will revert.
And thus the craziness that is high-speed trading continues unabated, faster and more profitable than ever before
The WSJ also chimed in:
In 2011, [Anova CEO] Michael Persico read an article in a trade journal describing how a Silicon Valley company called AOptix Technologies Inc. had designed military technology using lasers to communicate in battlefield conditions. His first thought: "I wonder if they can put those on a tower?" The technology traced back to the 1990s, when two scientists designed a method to gather images from outer space that corrected for atmospheric distortions. They developed technology for telescopes with flexible mirrors that could adjust thousands of times a second.
Soon, they realized the technology could also be used to transmit data using lasers. They formed AOptix and contracted with the U.S. government to provide communication devices for military aircraft.
Mr. Persico asked AOptix whether its laser system could be used to send stock-market data. The company was confident it could, because stock data would only have to move from one fixed spot to another.
"Finding a tower isn't hard for us, because we can find airplanes" with the lasers, said the CEO of AOptix, Dean Senner.
* * *
The Treasury Department's Office of Financial Research in December labeled high-speed trading a "key source of operational risk across all markets."
* * *
"Speed makes markets way more efficient," said Peter Nabicht, a former high-speed trader who is now a senior adviser to Modern Markets Initiative, a trade group.
* * *
Mr. Persico set about securing rooftops and other spots to place his lasers between the New Jersey communities housing the NYSE and Nasdaq data centers. Anova said it has dozens of trading firms waiting to try the lasers when they go live. One firm that plans to use the system is XR Trading LLC of Chicago. It is a "very compelling technology," said XR's president, Matthew Haraburda. He said if it behaves as intended, it could be "a huge development" in trading technology.
* * *
Some question whether Anova's lasers will provide a meaningful speed improvement over networks that are already in place, since microwave and millimeter-wave order transmissions also travel at near light speed.
The answer, we now know, is a resounding yes.
Because while a few months after our article showcasing the NYSE's latest technical achievement we noticed that the Anova laser had been taken down from its primary location, perched among all the microwave dishes, in the past few days there was a drastic change.
First, here is a quick look at the main microwave tower at the NYSE, highlighted below in yellow.
The AOptix laser device, previously located on the main microwave tower, is still nowhere to be found.
And yet, in the same photo, something unexpected has shown up in the backgroun: a new tower, erected just in the past few days, and highlighted in the image above in red.
Here is the tower shown closer. In fact, unlike the microwave tower, this new, just erected one is located literally right on the main NYSE entrance.
Wait, what's that at the top, are those...? Yes, they are: not one, not two, not three, but four brand spanking new lasers.
Here is the the best our zoom lens could do.
And with that we can now close the case on the WSJ's question "whether Anova's lasers will provide a meaningful speed improvement over networks that are already in place" - because whereas 9 months ago there was only one laser unit, now there are four, all on a dedicated tower, and we are confident many more are coming in the next few weeks, as all users of the suddenly obsolete microwave technology, who until recently were used to having the latest and greatest in frontrunning technology, realize they are being frontrun by their even faster, laser-based peers.
Which takes us back to the microwave tower, where we find not only what may be the world's most important (if only for a few more months) fully-exposed power supply cables...
...but the following sad remnant of a bygone era, and by bygone era we mean the peak in technological sophistication just 3 years ago, when microwaves ruled the financial world and were the absolute pinnacle of rigged market frontrunning: a sad microwave dish lying face down in the gravel.
A zoom in of the now defunct technology for all to see:
* * *
Nine months ago we concluded by saying that everyone who splurged millions on the "brand-new" - as recently as 2013 - microwave technologies to give their HFT system a leg up... is now obsolete.
Welcome to lasers: where you are either part of the very expensive club, or are being frontrun. Which also means that if Michael Lewis is indeed writing a sequel to Flash Boys focusing on microwave signals and towers as the "next big thing", he may just want to burn the manuscript.
As for what comes next, the WSJ suggested the following: "Some dream of a replacement for the fiber-optic cables across the Atlantic and Pacific. The idea: Turbocharge intercontinental trading by floating balloons carrying microwave dishes over the ocean."
Scratch that: the only option left now to trade ahead of everyone else with impunity - and entirely within the confines of post Reg NMS law - is to use lasers: laser beams encircling the globe, allowing speed-of-light quote stuffing, churning, momentum ingition, subpennying, spoofing, layering, intermarket sweeping and everything else that allows some to profit from everyone else in these rigged markets.
Because this, ladies and gentlemen, is what "trading" has become.
(That said, one wonders just what would happen if one flies, say, a drone in front of one or all of those lasers during, say, peak market hours or, heaven forbid, just a few milliseconds before the Fed announces its next "most important ever" policy decision.)
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most valuable real estate in the world.
can you spray paint with a drone?
ZH: Nice work, and great photos.
Now you wouldn't be trying to tell us there's a False Flag on the way, would you?
(I'm in Wyoming with nary a dime for gas. Just sayin').
This and quants are all so 20th century.
In five years you'll have IBM and the Chinese Combine have their own markets where they trade their own exclusive stock and the confederacy of vassal corporates under a heraldry of qbits and quantum machine learning.
People forget the "markets" might as well be humming along on some teenager's TRS-80 cassette deck in a converted garage behind Marriner S. Eccles.
Of course you have to actually have an income and saving in order to invest in stocks.
The bifurcated economy means you and your children will be toiling with tin cans and bicycle repair (if you have a license) while the Corporate hatch their schemes to stop having children and will their estate to their clones spliced with water-bear protein protectorant that believe their are part of a new emergent human species.
Et tu, Alphabetum?
I tell ya, these are gonna fail
miserably
becuz, though they have their advantages ,
the physics of optics will kill the system
& the stock mkt & the economy
just watch it
-----------
Physics : with global warming et al. the laser beams do not always travel in straight line becuz of changes in the refractive index of air. You can see the effect over a fire burning. So the laser beam will dance around the target. That will fail the whole system.
Bullshit. The beams travel in straight lines but the beam quality suffers.
Given how beams spread as they travel, it should be super easy to sample this laser signal between fixed stations.
dont agree
okee
burn a fire
and then let the laser beam travel over above it
The effect is very visible
---------
looks like you didn't read your physics well
Gee, that could make some poor little parasites very, very angry.
Team Tyler has cost someone a lot of money with the publication of this essay. The first solo device was a pilot project. Once proven, they added some redundancy. Now that the tower has been exposed, they are going to have to build a backup in some other location planning for when someone shows up overnight with drones, spray paint, guns or socks. Nice work!
Paintballs
Forgot that one.
That tower is just a decoy to suck in the morons.
You will not ever discern the real tower.
Reflective chaff may degrade it capabilities, metalized mylar, perhaps.
Fraud at the speed of light. Is this what the pinnacle of "civilization" looks like? If it is, then burn it down.
The starkest example of how abjectly stupid the vast majority of humans are....
They continue to participate in these carnival game of chance markets.
Clusterfuck ameriKa. Peak Humanity.
Please press the reset button!
cant we just ban stock markets from Earth??
Looks like a saboteur with a pea-shooter could take a few pot-shots at those devices.
Drone wars for laser trading supremacy.
Be a real bitch if somebody ever hooked up a drone to a can of spray paint and turned off the market modders by painting over all the laser lenses.
Good thing drone registration will preclude such shenanigans.
hft - the most essential for humanity..
now we will all see a big increase of life quality
thanks for the article, i doubt id see this covered by any other 'media'
I got one of those laser-pointer pens (with pocket-protector) and a "pre-owned" NYPD cattle-prod for Christmas -
gonna fire-up those suckers and start my own HFT/Bill Collection Hedge Fund - Laser & Taser Assoc ("For All Your Trading & Bill Collection Needs") - soon as my finger click-rate gets up to speed and I can hunt down some protective green eyeshades & a pair of Waffen SS issue steel handcuffs.
Financial terrorists only need a "mirror on a long stick" nowadays.
Check out the related videos from the Astronomers. Amazing stuff. Picturing colliding galaxies, imaging the volcanos on Io, watching new solar systems congeal.
Step away from this world and be amazed.
And getting back to earth,
A web of these things, solar powered with batteries, might be hard to shut down. Got $BC?
WOULD not it BE ENOUGH to accumulate all bids into a pull and then simply apply them against each other ONCE AN HOUR
"All the knowledge in the world is of no use to fools."
Don Henley
fucken bankster goverments stealing my money with fancy laser beams....fuck you
Aw, man, now the FAA has even more reason to regulate drones!
Would've been better to ask rhetorically, "What would happen if a lone-wolf Daesh jihadist rammed a car full of homemade explosives into the laser tower?"
We know the leftists won't go after jihadists. We know they won't go after cars (only to get a smog check and put a carbon tax on them, not to ban them outright). We know they won't go after the American Automobile Association like they would the National Rifle Association. We know they won't go after homemade bombs either.
Watch what you rhetorically question, please...
Trading?
SKIMMING!
These "high speed" skimmers dont have an idea what to do until they see your order. Theft.
LOL!
This seems highly appropriate:
Imma Firin Mah Lazor!https://youtu.be/RGDDyZJPrYE?t=1m12s
https://youtu.be/B6N6VksNCxo?t=1m37s
Imma firin mah sparta^^ ^.^
Hmm, please add the HFT lazors to The Lazer Collection ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSVNbxjdvv8
As for the CONomy, if someone wants to make something right, you start with regulating so no one uses such bs (like lazors) so there's no competitive edge in terms of trading speed. You make everyone trade with same trading conditions. The only edge allowed is your knowledge and decisions.
That might sound a lot like communism, but in the end safe regulations make for safer working environment, but question begins, who's qualified enough to regulate, and not make a ponzi for himself? Thus only solution is limit the effects of the ponzi, and make them aware to everyone, which is what ZH has done very well so far.
Banks, gov. are ponzis. Anything with hierarchy is ponzi. Ponzis are bad because they're bureaucratic, lack transparency, and lots of pyramid levels on top of it. Have a ponzi with 1000 people in charge, and there's lots of confusion. Have a ponzi with 10 people in charge, and things are clear as day.
Make a corporation(ponzi-corp) with 1000 employees be regulated to have only 20-50 employees, make more firms, smaller, such that everyone can see the financial balance sheets, how company works, etc.
Ponzi is inevitable, thus at least make the ponzi pyramid smaller. That is the best solution as far as I can see.
Transparent smaller safer ponzi schemes lol
WoW! Money really has become a drug. Complete with drug addicts who will rob, steal and murder to continue their drug habit.
And hell, it all started with a free trial by the drug pusher.
C'mon, Louie, just one moar trade.
Aoptix wants their cut, Rizillo. You holdin' out?
Never, Louie, I swear!
The books is short, Rizillo. C'mon, the Man wants to see ya.
Their physical security sucks, from what I can see in the photos.
Children, don't get worked up about lasers. They are very easy to block.
one thing is not widely lnown by the public . laser transmission is badly affected by : smog , heavy rain, snow , and smoke from fires . Those happening can cause data loss .
"On a clear day .... you can skim forever .... and ever .... and ever !" Moi
Which means nobody trades.
Which means NYSE dies.
Reporterette: Why do you skim ? HFT Algoreyzm: Because, that's where the cream is ! (Disclaimer: No Boyz Town Cathlick priests were harmed permanently .... in the filming of my Avatar !)
"I can say .... in a few words .... what Banzai says .... in a thousand pictures ?" Moi
Anyone who trades in the markets now ruled by HFTs deserves the fleecing the HFTs are designed to do.
Do these lasers guard against EMP's?
What happens if they are used for target practice?
What happens if you fly a kite and block its signal?
We don't need fundamentals, we have frikken LASERS !
I see the microwave tower on my daily commute. From a distance, it stands way above the trees. You can't help not notice it.
This quote is priceless:
"Speed makes markets way more efficient," said Peter Nabicht, a former high-speed trader ... "
The quote is correct, they just never finish the sentence.
...more efficient at draining the wealth of common folks.
Get a cat toy lazer and a tripod to mount it on. Point it at the receiver, run away......
The new tower is a portable 'crank up' type. It typically is not designed for permanent use. Cell companies use similar setups (trailer mounted) to enhance cell networks at very large public events or if a permanent cell tower is damaged, say by ice storms etc.. Also the guy wire anchoring pads are the portable removable slabs (trucked in and laid in place by a small crane) and are not permanently poured concrete piers.
IMHO, there may have been issues with extra gear on the original tower (including the owner of said tower/ land owner leasing the space was pissed about the additional service added outside of the contract(s) held by the service providers). The temporary tower may be in place to keep the service running and (expanded) until a more permanent setup is permitted and amicable land lease arrangement are made.
ANYONE who may have been approached for a land lease deal for this kind of setup needs to know that these make money for the operators way above the typical cell lease. Be CERTAIN to adjust any lease arrangement appropriately.
Good point.
Many do not appreciate that the air space above and around their property can be VERY valuable.
It also looks like there was not sufficient space on the monopole tower to have 4 laser units aimed in one direction.
Look closer: It says "Blood From A Stone Manuf. Co."
Yep, I think they just merged with 'House of Cards Industries'.
.22 rifle with CCI Stinger rounds. Velocity at 100 yds is still over 1,000 ft/sec. Quick and quiet, then go on about your day.
(Note to NSA, I do not condone or encourage such behavior. I am scared of all firearms and think the world of you guys. Have a nice day!)
What are you waiting for? Looks like there is some seriuos redudnancy built it there?
As Elon Musk says : If we let the AI geeks make their EVIL algorithms it can take over the world for the BAD GUYS.
QUESTION : How do you make ETHICAL AI devices when the makers are totally UNETHICAL humans?
It takes a good man to make a good algo. It needs checks and balances, as men are NOT good once they have power, even if they were good as aspiring unknowns. Power corrupts and abolute power...
Its not the other way round!
good question, but how is an ethical artificial intelligence even possible? an ethical quandary is when a subject is confronted by a dilemma: to do the optimal or the sub-optimal but nicer, friendlier, thing?
an ethical decision is a personal sacrifice, a less-then-optimal path for a greater then personal sake. only possible for an intelligence that sees itself as only a part of a greater whole
both an utter individualist and a software program can't take an ethical decision. they are both properly speaking amoral (a-moral, which is not immoral, mind)
Well an AI can be programmed to include a mechanism of type : "Energy in/Energy out" type ratio -- I use this from the fossil analogy--; whereby based on human criteria and feed back loops the algo can stop advancing in a given direction if it has independent criteria, secondary feed back effects of energy dissipation in unintended consequences, which are over-riding; aka holistic solutions instead of linear "follow the repeat single target flag". That addresses your amoral quandry.
We are at the beginning of AI and its elaboration by humans to reflect their own mindsets can be made as complex on an "à posteriori" basis (I grant you) as what the human does but with much greater reliability and less error.
Humans should always supervise the end functions of algos... and humans should also keep some part of the production process; the non repetitive, the creative, for human use and satisfaction. The human has to hold the upper ground, based not on "to the victors the spoils" type HFT hits, but more holistic concepts.
Its a question of elevating the human "creative destruction" urge to serve holistic and ethical models not just simple ones of maximising MS or profit.
Godless
Investors need to be in the market for the long term and not worry about the intraday fluctuations of the market.
- Says every pundit that doesn't want the sheep to know they are being sheared
The main problems with that are:
1. Your 401k company is front running your 401k buy/sells for their VIP clients.
2. The HFT companies are front running your 401k buy/sells for their own profits.
Then there are these clever towers disguised to look like other things.
http://twistedsifter.com/2012/08/examples-of-cell-phone-tower-disguises/
I wonder if my drone can lift a disco ball?
Das funky right there.
I also wonder if all that laser activity that was blinding pilots was really caused by knucklehead technicians trying to line up these lasers at night.
armed citizens need to take over the USA and put an end to this bullshit.
Thanks for my laugh of the day. Don't get me wrong,,, no insults meant,,, just picturing all those obese rollie pollies taking over America,,, maybe a mall or a Barnhills but America? LOL...
What curvature?
So, GS hires a Academi hit on JPM's laser.
BOA hires a hit on JPM's link.
Ad infinum. WAY BETTER NEWS PORN THAN USSA VS EVERYONE else..... (bet nobody fucks with the Mossad, though)
It is however interesting that critical POPs for data are so vulnerable to potential co-ordinated attacks from ISIS or Langly....... ooops sorry about that. The Department of Redundancy Department has sent me a violation notice.
Much of our critical infrastructure is completely vulnerable. Good thing there's no real terrorists.
Hit those lasers with a drone ahead of a major announcement and you end up with "Trading Places 2"
"Looking good, Billy Ray!"
LOL,
Super soaker with black ink?
Or lol a real black swan lands on it and starts pecking at it?
Truth is stranger than fiction.
That would be the best approach. Spray the tower with some type of chemical that attracts birds. It would be more difficult for the authorities to prove that it was a criminal act.
That could very well be the next new revolutionary slogan. Fuggedabout "Viva la Revolucion" - now it's "Lookin' Good, Billy Ray!"
I have traded for 30 years. I long ago stopped trying to be a day trader because of the HFT corruption and crooked market makers on Wall Street. Even my successful swing trading of 20 years is now limited to only high volatility markets. Today all I trade is longer term positions carefully taken at support and resistance points using only limit orders. Screw their lasers…
As per my earlier post, any trade is being front run by your brokerage and by the HFTers so you are losing money on the buy and on the sell regardless of the timeframe of your trade. I'm not sure I feel better only getting robbed once every year versus being robbed every day.
How long until one of the big transit network carriers begins to utilize this technology ? Invisible infrastructure is an interesting thought thought t 2gbps we have a ways to go.
Hope a "squirrel" doesn't find its way into that base station wiring...really could give someone a bad day.
Based on my triangulation method they are actually pointed at the NY Fed in East Rutherford NJ, do we have any pics of their tower? sniper man?
When will anyone understand this: Fiber Optics Are WAY FASTER and More reliable and offer WAY more bandwidth then those lasers.
Those lasers have _Way Less_ bandwidth then modern day wave division multiplexed fiber optics.
Also delay times are Way Bigger since lasers can only operate at best in CLOSE line of sight between each others, therefore are prone to need Multiple repeaters to reach some distance.
So at best those lasers are _Backup_ system Never would anyone dream to trade on those systems!
A side note: Fiber Optics Are Lasers traveling inside Secure, deep burried excelent light conductivity for hundreds of miles Fiber cables. Unlike open air Laseres.
Also the idea of having baloons carrying lasers signal repeaters across the Atlantic can only be made by someone with a very very scarse understanding of the technology. The idea itself is Ludicrous.
I work with fiber systems all day. All your assumptions except bandwidth and delay are wrong. I have not seen a light go hundreds of miles without regens.
Anything digital is not secure. Period.
Really?!! You gotta be kidding right!
I repeat and reafirm again all my previous points:
1- Fiber optics are Way FASTER ... have Way More badwdth and can handle on a single cable a Minimum of 1000 (yes Thousand times, easilly 10.000 x ) times More bandwith then all those laser modules combined.
2- Delay Is WAY Less since carrying signals in line of sight requires Way more RELAYS then a single Straight cable that can travel a hundred miles Easily... if not more. Try to do that with those lasers ...
3.- Way more reliable ... enought to have a heavy snow storm, a Bird "pooing" in front of those lenses ... and the signal is off ... Fibers are burried Deep and in usually Strong underground structures.
4- Fibers Also usually have Redundancy and Multiple Paths all over specially on those Critical Data Centers. Those Lonely laser systems are a SINGLE POINT of failure about to get fried ...
If you don't understand this I suggest you look for Dense Wavelenght Division Multiplexing Fiber Optics systems ... use google ...
Working with Fiber optics on your company passing ethernet fiber up to hundred yards does not count as Fiber Optics experience...
All the reliability issues I provided are not only correct as they are actually PART of the Manufacturer Specifications.
-> Those Lasers CAN NOT Be used for trading much Less for HFT!
Those lasers are a long time Niche solution for things like linking two NYC buildings standing 100 yards from each other (tops) and the owners not being able to pass Fiber optic cable to the underground fiber optics ...
They were always a complete Secondary circunvention on True connectivity ...
Note: I'm not saying Fiber does not have problems ... I'm saying it is Insane to think those Line of sight lasers are nothing more then backups ... for all the reasons mentioned previously.
It is also insane to think it would be possible to make a Trans-Atlantic baloon carried (lol) Laser line of sight carrying system !
OK, for those in ZH that want a Clear Example Why those lasers can not be used for Trading, much LESS for HFT :
When it Snows a lot, those lasers acan not transmit signal ...
Simple as that ...
Lucky for them it's still unseasonally warm here...
There, FIFY
The Rothschilds have come a long way since Nathan Rothschild used a relay team to bring back news of the Battle of Waterloo in 1815. Is it correct to refer to this as a market when the traders only hold their positions for nano-seconds?
such is the unbelievable capacity of HFT to create money out of almost nothing.
It's not that they "create money". Rather, all their bets are sure things. It relegates real traders (interested in real exchanges) to betting on the instant replay.
A simple random delay fixes the problem ... if they ever admit it is a problem.
Waah!
Here he goes again without even understanding what randomness is!!
You're really full of shit.
Typical Malek contribution ... i.e. contributes nothing at all.
Malek. Wouldn't it have been easy for you to explain randomness here if you thought I didn't understand it? I mean really, what's to understand? This application of a random process doesn't even have to be repeatable (as do things like Monte Carlo analysis). That makes it even easier to implement.
And of what value is it to anyone to know how close I am to my guano capacity? Your use of the language is a marker.
But your generous contribution was immense! I mean IMMENSE!!1!
A simple random delay fixes the problem
Delay of what? Applied by who? Verified by what? Tampering punished through what law?
What problem exactly gets fixed by that and how/why?
You don't understand randomness, we had that discussion before.
It all boils down to one question:
Tell me how do you verify true randomness. And no, I didn't say create but I said verify, that means after the fact (as necessary for accountability.)
Delay of what?
Timestamp.
Applied by who?
The process that assigns timestamps to every transaction
Verified by what?
The same thing that verifies the timestamp now to assure fair first-in, first-out transaction processing.
Tampering punished through what law?
The law of catching the perps
What problem exactly gets fixed by that
The advantage of HFT over other transactions goes away ... regardless of how fast they transmit it.
and how
Processing of transaction order is crucial in HFT. That is disrupted. Their algorithms depend on very low latency (e.g. how do you front run with indeterminant latency?). They can't write algorithms that give them any deterministic latency which is less than anyone elses.
/why?
Because they can't be certain the feedback they get is more current than that anyone else not using HFT gets.
You don't understand randomness, we had that discussion before.
Oh really? Referesh my memory.
Tell me how do you verify true randomness.
You use a process that can only be purely random. I'm not talking a random number generator using an algorithm and a seed. I'm talking about something that is really random ... like white noise. Here's one company's approach: https://www.random.org/ but maybe that could be compromised. Wikipedia has a good article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_random_number_generator
And no, I didn't say create but I said verify, that means after the fact (as necessary for accountability.)
White noise can be perpetually monitored for randomness. You're just being argumentative.
And look folks ... another major contribution by Malek. How tired you make me Malek. I so wish I could get something of substance out of you.
Your brain seems to be incapable of storing arguments conflicting to your own beliefs - or you're getting senile.
White noise can be perpetually monitored for randomness.
Go ahead, and ask a few serious mathematicians about that.
Are you actually aware that well-encrypted data is indistiguishable from random noise? But it still has the encrypted information in it. Realize any problems for your monitoring for randomness proposition?
As I am repeatedly having to say, you are just being argumentative ... an avoider. You just karp from the peanut gallery.
Just as inflation of the MOE cannot be measured, it "can" be guaranteed to be zero by proving the operation of the controlling process. Perhaps random numbers can't be measured to assure they aren't being manipulated, but the process that delivers them can be audited and "proven" correct and not manipulated.
There is no arguing that efforts will continue be made to game the system ... and can even succeed for brief spans of time. Look at VW gaming the emission tests. And in your heart of hearts you know they are all doing it ... and VW is being selectively punished for something they were told not to do (competitively) and did anyway.
It's easier to police a proper process than it is to make an improper process work. HFT is a process that needs changing because people are gaming the system with it. As I've illustrated, it's easy to implement that process change ... just as easy as it is to know right now how timestamps are actually being assigned.
Malek, you embarass yourself.
LOL, now you just declared "Cure is better than prevention"
So please state here once and for all if your line of thought goes like this:
I, withglee, am not even trying to make a system as gaming-resistant as possible, because... hey it's gonna happen anyway - and every such gaming will fail sooner or later (at the latest when all game-able resources are exhausted, and then we just build a new system, because we have unlimited resources including time to do so)
That then really concludes all further need for analysis, much less discussion.
You are a not an engineer in the true sense, even if you really carry the title. Better stop humiliating yourself. You have proven conclusively you will never be able to give a serious contribution to the betterment of humanity.
Keep worshiping the altar of complexity.
A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. -Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Amazing ... just amazing.
You are a sad little clown.
Ah. If we could only meet personally. So many additional subtle outputs, attributes, and tendencies are revealed. I could write a computer program capable of responding to this dialog in virtually and effectively the way you have. It would not need any intelligence at all. Only modes of reactions to assertions and questions.
It would be an interesting and illuminating project.
Delusions of grandeur...
And what could be grander than meeting Malek personnally? For starters, it might suffice to just know who the heck she is.
There is just no telling what the naked apes, who have been ingesting mox buckyballs for nearly five years now, will think of to steal from themselves now into the future.
Does this make them light-fingered keyboard users?
In other news: New York and New Jersey state legislatures just passed bills making "open carry" of mirrors a felony.
And soon toy Drones will also be restricted :)
Anyone caught with a toy 100$ drone is going to be judged by "Terrorism" !
Pass a 100$ in front of those lasers and ...ops ... there goes the signal ...
Again ... there will be no stock market chaos since those are Not used for trading for sure.
Fraud at the speed of light. Is this what the pinnacle of "civilization" looks like? If it is, then burn it down.
The starkest example of how abjectly stupid the vast majority of humans are....
They continue to participate in these carnival game of chance markets.
Clusterfuck ameriKa. Peak Humanity.
Please press the reset button!
Money sharks with lasers attached to their towers' heads.
NYSE standing at the forefront of front running technology... Wanking at a furious pace.
buy, or make your own laser, and make a few random trades.