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Turkish, Greek Jets Engage In Dogfight Over Mediterranean
Turkey is no stranger to aerial conflict of late.
After months of back and forth banter between Ankara and Moscow regarding supposed Russian incursions into Turkish airspace, Erdogan finally “went there” on November 24 when Turkish F-16s shot down a Russian Su-24 near the border with Syria. One of the two pilots was killed.
Although Turkey claimed the (17 second) violation of its airspace was unacceptable and just cause for military engagement, it was just three years prior that Erdogan had decried the downing of a Turkish F-4 phantom in Syria’s airspace."A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he declared.
But that wasn’t the only hypocrisy apparent in Turkey’s brazen move. According to the University of Thessaly (whose statistics are based on the Greek military’s tally), there were 2,244 violations of Greece’s airspace by Turkish jets in 2014 alone, representing an increase of some 250% from 2013. Here’s a look at the graphic:
Well don’t look now, but Turkish and Greek fighters just got into a dogfight over the Aegean.
Here’s eKathimerini:
Greek and Turkish jets engaged in a brief dogfight over the Aegean Sea on Tuesday after Turkish aircraft violated Greek national air space several times.
A formation of six Turkish jets, flanked by two CN-235 aircraft that were not in formation, violated Greek air space nine times, according to Greek defense officials.
In all cases the Turkish jets were chased off by Greek aircraft. Two of the eight Turkish aircraft were armed.
The violations were the first since early December following a minor diplomatic spat between the two Aegean neighbors after a message on Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras’s Twitter account accused Turkish jets of repeated transgressions in the Aegean.
Since Erdogan is a fair man, and because we're sure Turkey's attack on the Russian warplane was completely legitimate, we suppose the Turkish President would have understood if Greece had shot down one of Turkey's fighters.
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Meh. Means nothing until wreckage starts falling out of the sky.
Some one needs to tell Alex that the President of Turkey is not 'Ergun'. He's pronounced it that way a dozen times this morning. My god.
Well the Turks are winning this one. They landed more than one million muslims on Greek shores and going strong. Expect to see more Cypress scenarios on other Greek islands. Last I heard on Lesbos the muslims outnumber the locals and they are all young men. Each one with a knife can in a few seconds make the entire island muslim only. The Greeks better beware.
Really, REALLY want to see Russia install some air defences for them.
Does it count as an act of war if Russia shoots down a Turkish plane in defense of a NATO member's airspace?
Both groups were out hunting Russian passenger planes and started fighting over the quarry.
Greek Monk Prophecy & The Third World War ... ... ...
to begin between Turkey and Greece
http://cosmicconvergence.org/?p=12676
FWIW that "dogfight" was pretty much right over Mount Athos.
Good place to get shot down, I suppose, at least for a Greek.
In other news, Obama & Reggie Love got into a 'catfight' over the Pacific.
Wait a minute ... those islands in the Aegean are claimed by China.
Majority of Greeks tend to sympathize with the so-called West although Russia was one of the protecor nations after the Greeks had managed to get rid of the Turks oppression after 400 years. It might change not easily - but it would be fun.
Wrong my boy,..... by at least 25 years.
You could go and ask NOW, how many Greeks like the West. And the USA since 1974.
I have.
They do share a common Orthodox faith.
"
Sticky situation might be, Greeks with 1997 year version S-300 allowing recently Israel air force testing against them.
I agree Baby Bladeface, the Russians aren't fools. If they lend the Greeks a hand with air defence there will be a price to pay and the systems will be for rent only and on Russian Ships stationed off the Greek Coast.
I agree Baby Bladeface, the Russians aren't fools. If they lend the Greeks a hand with air defence there will be a price to pay and the systems will be for rent only and on Russian Ships stationed off the Greek Coast.
Wasn't that Cyprus?
The Irony...
They betrayed the only Country that could help them with their Financial, Defense, Energy, and Sovereignty Requirements.
Guess they're going to have to get some ISR-made SAMs; and wait for TRK to stick their neck out too far...
COSMOS, you are correct! And guess what? The EU just issued a report condeming Greece for it's poor handling on Migrants. More money they say should be spent to house and accomodate Migrants. More transport to move them north should be laid on. More food made available. And more rescue craft to pick up boats from Turkey and escort them safely to Lesbos and Greek mainland.
FUCK THE EU!
Isn't the EU going to give Turkey $3 billion in 2016 to keep refugees from entering Europe?
How much will they give bankrupt Greece to shelter the refugees already there?
interestingly, you don't focus on the other complaint. the one that Greece could have done more to make sure those migrants don't even enter their territory, and so "the EU", and the Schengen Area
Uh, two NATO members shooting at each other or at minimum engaging in a pissing match.. Little bit more the "meh" I think. Every collapse begins with a little meaningless crack.
My thoughts as well.
Just what the fuck does it mean to who when 2 NATO aligned nations start shooting at each other ???
I do not know but I hope the Greeks or someone starts to put limits on the horseshit that Turkey is allowed to get away with.
the article doesn't mention any shots fired - if that's the case, do you have a link?
i am guessing they are using "dogfight" to mean that the greek jets chased off the turks, which is a questionable use of the word, imo
"Just what the fuck does it mean to who when 2 NATO aligned nations start shooting at each other ??? "
Uni/Bilateral agreements and actions.
NATO alliance functionally useless.
Security Council vetos will also render UN practically useless...
If the Greeks are all that broke how can they afford to maintain and fly sorties?
and why not shoot down a Turk or two, oh, yes of course, can't afford fuel AND ammo
bet they all took lots of selfies looking fierce and brave......do pilots still use Brylcream?
guess that dates me, ha!
Meanwhile, talk about yer misleading headlines:
South Korea, Japan agree on sex slavesHang on, aren't these two NATO bum-buddies? Yes, Greece will surely stand tall by Turkey's side as the savage Russians intimidate, display aggression, and violate International Law*. The white knights of NATO will come together as one overwhelming force to defeat evil in the world.......blah blah blah.......
Like NATO had any credibility in the first place, watching this charade is just sad.
* Open for interpretation
Not sad,
Just Bollocks, or the lack of.
I believe those Greek jets technically belong to Germany , but either way this exciting. So who does the US get to bomb in this case and will we be selling weapons to both countries immediately?
Just ask Russia to fire off an S400 and light one up.
Oops, sorry Turkey, but you know how serious it is to protect your border.
pods
WWIII
So shots where fired?
I mean the title says dogfight? from the article I seem to miss the "dogfight" part.
No dog fight, just dog pissing.
Sniffing and growling?
is that dog on the spinning gyro machine yet? we're getting hungry
Dog fight? Sounds like a bitch fight, hurling insults over the intercom. Your mother smells and your father is a camel: Sort of thing.
Is cat fight with slapping, scratching, hair to pull.
One of them a fingernail breaks and concludes the fighting ..... for now.
Erdogan, the war criminal, trying to divert attention from internal troubles in Turkey by engaging foreign enemies.
Provocations such as this tell me that Erdogan is desperate for a much larger war, so that NATO finally has it's casus belli.
Desperate=Instructed. He's following orders. See the Bosphorus Strait.
Not only is NATO lacking a "casus belli", it's lacking a "raison d'etre". It should be disbanded.
I hear the Chinese have completely rebuilt their embassy in Belgrade. Sounds like a provocation to me.
NATO can't even hold back from attacking itself.
Mad dogs are not discriminating.
It's all fun and games till a jet falls from the sky!
Correction. That is when the fun and games begin.
I suspect that before this is all over Erdogan is going to be slowly torn limb from limb Mousolinni style in a public square. It couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Well I guess the Saudi royal family may get similar treatment as well.
The Greeks should have shot one of them down.
They should have sunk the boats dropping the invaders/refugees /asylum seekers on their shores before this shitime got out of hand.
Indeed. Sink a couple of boats and they will quit coming.
They have in the past.
But so did the Turks, off Crete of all places.
From Wikipedia, so it must be true:
IncidentsEditThis has been going on for ever, just the usual nonsense that is government
Something is wrong within Turkey. Or, Turkey is acting as proxy for either USA or Israel (or both).
I have observed before that the small contingent of Russian air force was so inferior in numbrs to the proximate Nato (US+Turkish) air forces that it could not last an hour of full throttle aerial assault. That was before the S-400s and the Moskva went on station, which are equalizers.
But Turkey is so confrontational that there must be something in the works that would lead -at least in the minds of mad men- to withdrawal of Soviet air and naval forces from the Mediterranean.
I think the Russian Nuclear subs will make sure no ships have to leave unless ordered to. Also Soviet is no longer in existence. You mean Russian.
Thank you. I am showing my age. It was a senior moment, I guess.
Russia has made mention of its nuclear warfare capability several times over the past 2 years. It has warned that it will use this power if it became necessary; but only if its conventional warfare capability was not sufficient.
A "minor incident" -one that might not even entail an exchange of fire- may be used to provoke Russia by declaring that it made a "warlike act" which would , technically, give Turkey the legal justification to close the Bosphorus to Russia.
Closing the Bosphorus Straits to Russian ships and closing the airspace over Turkey and the Balkans to Russian planes will force the Russians either to cave in and pull out, or go to war. This is the same dilemma that the Japanese and Germans were put into in 1941. Japanese oil supplies were cut off, and the German U-boats were hunted by the US navy in international waters off our coast. Somebody must be thinking that the Russians will make concessions like the Germans, rather than take action like the Japanese.
There is no need to go over turkey to get to syria.
"Somebody must be thinking that the Russians will make concessions like the Germans, rather than take action like the Japanese..."
"Russians either to cave in and pull out, or go to war"
Yeap, I guess that's exactly what Napoleon and Hitler though about Russian people.
Good work !
Only way to beat Russia those days is to take out Putin, and that's out of question (hope so).
Nothing is going to happen, let the Archduke make that good will visit to Serbia.
You do have to wonder. Why now, why in every direction? To the south they are stirring the pot in Syria, to the SE they are sending troops into Iraq, violating Greece's airspace to the west (not forgetting long term issues with Greece) and discussing the closing of the strait of Bosphorus to Russian ships.
I have to think that Erdogan has dreams of returning the Ottoman Empire to it's glory days, with himself as the head of the Caliphate. Seen his new digs?
Next dig be a mausoleum
He attaches a new wing
Turkey is claiming Article 5 should apply in its defense, only nobody was willing to slap Russia because it was Turkey that was the aggressor, not Russia. As soon as Turkey shot down the Russian jet, it ran to NATO. Didn't even call up the Kremlin and say "oops, guess what happened, so sorry." Erdogan immediately called for other NATO members to back him up because he knew he had seriously irritated the bear.
I suspect that Turkey is getting "persuaded" by USA but have no proof. He is also on shaky ground at home and is facing a near-civil war in response to his actions to arrest journalists and shut down the opposition, so his erratic actions could just be signs of a panic attack.
Right when both governments need a military distraction
Well the Turks are winning this one. They landed more than one million muslims on Greek shores and going strong. Expect to see more Cypress scenarios on other Greek islands. Last I heard on Lesbos the muslims outnumber the locals and they are all young men. Each one with a knife can in a few seconds make the entire island muslim only. The Greeks better beware.
Turkey is dreaming about ottoman empire rebuild
ErDOGan is just on Israel's leash.
How do we blame Russia for this one?
Don't forget Trump
Bill Kristol is working on it
Well, both Turkey and Greece are in NATO so we can't blame them. Perhaps we can say that today's unfortunate incident might not have occurred if Russia had not been "raising tensions" in the region.
Yeah, that's the ticket . . . Wonder if I can get a job with the State Department.
We need Maverick and Goose to fly inverted and give the Turks the finger.
Someone needs to "keep up international relations"
The tension that was created after the shooting down of a Russian jet fighter by Turkish warplanes has led several Greeks to refer to Elder Paisios‘ prophecies about war between Russia and Turkey. - See more at:
#mce_temp_url#
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2015/11/25/some-greeks-turn-to-elder-pai...
Erdogen is the mad dog of Urasia,the United Snakes realy knows how to pick em.
This has happened repeatedly over time with planes on both sides being shot down. Not really news.
Show me the wreckage (and the money).
DEAR GREECE
NEXT TIME SHOOT THESE TURKISH WHORES DOWN.
I LIVE IN THE WEST AND GIVE YOU MY WHOLE HEARTED SUPPORT TO REMOVE THESE KNUCKLE HEADS FROM THE SKY.
THEY ARE KNOWN AS TURKISH FREAKS BELONGING TO NATO AND GOOD FOR NOTHING ELSE BUT BEING VASSALS OF THE USA.
JUST LIKE THE EUROPEAN LEADERSHIP ARE.
Apparently these are daily occurances. Here is a bit about the author of the link below:
Metin Gurcan is a columnist for Al-Monitor's Turkey Pulse. He served in Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Iraq as a Turkish military adviser between 2002-2008. Resigned from the military, he is now a research fellow on security policies for an Ankara-based think tank. Gurcan is currently writing his Ph.D. dissertation on changes in the Turkish military over the last decade.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2015/01/turkey-greece-cyprus-a...
dog fight = only in the minds of ZH.
"Dogfight" is an archaic term that has no specific meaning in modern air warfare. Yes, aerial combat maneuvering took place and is a prerequisite to actually firing an air-to-air weapon. No, nobody shot at anybody. This time.
How did they get their donkey carts to fly?
Perhaps we don't see the whole picture from where we're standing.
Perhaps the West considers Tsipras too accommodating to Putin and Russia and is purposely pestering him, making his life difficult about Greece's austerity and the Turkish border dispute, until he comes around and plays ball with Brussels and Washington.
so the greeks went to the dogfight....unarmed? lmao
erDOGan gone rabid