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Billionaires Battle: Buffett Beats Musk In Nevada
Submitted by Nick Cunningham via OilPrice.com,
In a clash of the titans, Warren Buffett just defeated Elon Musk.
The fight was over solar net-metering in Nevada, a state that has the fifth largest installed solar capacity in the country. Nevada is home to Tesla’s ‘Gigafactory,’ which will produce batteries for electric vehicles. In addition to CEO of Tesla, Elon Musk is also the chairman of SolarCity, and net-metering – the policy that allows homeowners with solar panels to be paid for the power they produce – is central to solar economics.
But while Musk has quite a bit of sway in the Silver State, he came up short against Warren Buffett. NV Energy, a major Nevada utility and subsidiary of Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway, strongly opposed the net-metering provision.
Earlier this year the Nevada state legislature ordered the Public Utility Commission (PUC) to formulate a new net-metering payment by the end of 2015 after the state maxed out the allotted 235 megawatt net-metering program. Vivint Solar, another solar developer, pulled out of Nevada last summer after the net-metering program became fully subscribed, which forced solar installations to grind to a halt. The impasse meant that a lot was riding on the PUC’s decision.
Just days before a New Year deadline, the Nevada Public Utility Commission (PUC) voted 3-0 to slash the payments that homeowners receive for solar energy and also increase charges on them. The solar industry cried foul, saying that the PUC decision was made without evidence or debate, and that it “flies in the face of Nevada law, which requires the state to 'encourage private investment in renewable energy resources, stimulate the economic growth of this State; and enhance the continued diversification of the energy resources used in this State' through net metering,” as Bryan Miller, Senior Vice President of Public Policy at solar developer Sunrun, said in a statement. “We believe the Commission, appointed by Governor Sandoval, has done the exact opposite today.”
The move also does not grandfather in homeowners who have already installed solar, even though many of those people likely made solar investments based on the net-metering payments. The retroactive penalty could be a death blow for solar in Nevada, and one that the solar industry says might also be illegal. The Alliance for Solar Choice, an industry trade group, filed a lawsuit against the PUC. Sunrun also filed a lawsuit against Nevada Governor Brian Sandoval (R) in order to obtain records of text messages between him and NV Energy lobbyists.
The main proponent of the move is Warren Buffett’s NV Energy, which pays residential homes for the solar energy they produce. NV Energy says that lowering payments avoids shifting the costs to other ratepayers. NV Energy proposed to lower net-metering payments and to increase fixed charges on solar homes, a decision that the PUC went with. The PUC decision will cut those payments by 75 percent.
SolarCity threatened to leave the state if the PUC moved forward on slashing the net-metering payments. "It will destroy the rooftop solar industry in one of the states with the most sunshine...There is so much wrong with the decision, the only option for the PUC is to reject it," SolarCity’s CEO Lyndon Rive told Bloomberg ahead of the vote. "The one beneficiary of this decision would be NV Energy, whose monopoly will have been protected."
After the PUC voted to roll back net-metering payments, SolarCity followed through on its threat. On December 23, SolarCity announced that it would stop selling and installing solar panels in Nevada. "The PUC has protected NV Energy's monopoly, and everyone else will lose," SolarCity’s Rive said. "We have no alternative but to cease Nevada sales and installations, but we will fight this flawed decision on behalf of our Nevada customers and employees."
NV Energy said it was reviewing the PUC’s decision to determine how it would affect its customers.
December has been a busy month of SolarCity, which saw its share price skyrocket following the federal budget deal that extended tax credits for solar. But now it has been chased out of Nevada.
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2 Neo-Marxist New World Order bastards fighting over the scraps. Why can't we just launch both of them to Mars for 2016 and return a tad bit of laissez-faire capitalism to our society?
Color me shocked. The oligarchs won again.
While this decision is easily challengeable, the oligarchs also control the courts.
I am Chumbawamba.
This is the real Warren Buffett: syphilitic, dog-fucking puke.
Earlier, primitive civilizations would have killed the Buffets because there just wasn't enough excess production to have one guy hoarding it all while others starved. Now we can afford the wealthy -- which is fine, people rewarded for intelligent hard work -- but make no mistake, there is a limit.
Becky banged him. At least that's the word around town.. just disgusting
It's all just one more example of the Obama fascists at work. Say one thing and do something else to enhance those political contributions from the oligarchy.... and the Sheeple graze in the fields oblivious to the slaughter house trucks coming to get them.
exactly.
the courts, like the government and the media, are owned.
we won't find victory in their system. victory is to be found by working outside their systems and creating our own.
we can install our own solar, make our own solar power, and sell electricity to our neighbors, we don't need their permission, and we don't need their PUC to tell us what the value is of the electricity produced.
i am not chumbawamba.
This fucking Buffet. EVERYBODY thinks he's good 'ol grandpa Buffet. The good 'ol Hayseed Billionaire.
But when it comes down to letting people have the freedom to produce their own power and if they have excess sale it back to the power company and get a break on their utility bill
( a tax break if you will )....what does this little shit do.
OH NO.....we've got to KILL net metering.
Rot in hell you little shit.
Grew up south of Omaha. Whenever I go back there, I tell people that Buffett is a fucking souless pirate, they think I'M nuts.
Your pitch is all wrong... Tell them that he's a 'nutless' 'dickless' pirate soul & they might climb on board.
doll yourself up like becky, you'll get his attention
ask him for a dime, and if it aint a silver one, toss it at his face
No problem for Musk he'll just head to D.C. and get some more "free" taxpayer money. He's expert at that!
P.S. Fuck "Uncle" Warren, he is one lousy bastard. I do not think his father would be proud!
I bet Harry "I GOT THE SHIT BEAT OUT OF ME BY AN EXERCISE MACHINE" Reid had a hand in this as well.
Harry son works for the solar companies....This is what happens when you plan to retire
NV Governor Sandoval is a 2 faced Progressive RINO.
Hairy "Cyclops" Reid
Wasn't he a porn star in the 70's ?
So much for the great Paris Climate Change victory
Top of my "don't give a shit" list for 2015......
Two down votes, and yet I still don't give a shit.......
Caityln Jenner is at the top of my list. Anxious to see what we're gifted with in 2016.
Sandoval is a pretty face who I think hopes being kinder purtty, hispanic and a republican might mean a place for himself on the national stage. The presence of Cruz and Rubio however...so maybe now he has changed course and decided to be BFF with the Oracle. He is not a conservative and I can usually figure out what he will do if I ask myself...what would the Democrats want?
Sorry but the guy is a snake.
Happy New Years to my Bros on Zerohedge.
Keep up the good fight, even from our fortified armchairs, while seated over the lake where we ALL lost our PMs.
Yes and we are guarding that lake from the Feds.
Musk reminds me so much of a Bond villain its uncanny.
I swear he soon will launch a diamond-based laser satellite.
Elon Musk knows as much about business as your average 12 year old girl knows about sex. He is a one trick pony, and he only rides the taxpayer subsidized rides.
Warren Buffet, however, is a true renaissance man, with a very deep bag of very dirty tricks to rob everyone. The taxpayer bailouts and handouts are the icing on the cake, not the dough.
The outcome of this oligarch pissing match should never have been in question, and Buffet would make a much scarier Bond villain.
Musk wouldn't hire you because you are not smart enough.
I've encountered a few dumbasses that worked for SpaceX here in LA/El Segundo-Hawthorne-Inglewood-Crenshaw.
One was an HR/Private Investigator Type (IIRC, probably related to a neighbor of mine), who tried to set up a bogus "first interview" at a Tech/Security_Clearance JobFair in El Segundo. Another was a Factory Line worker who purposely gave me false directions (as in, it was so off it had to be deliberate) at the LA City Library.
Petty, Minor, and Major Foul Play. I've had a TWNese Tesla Supporter(Landlord for a Outlet?) have its goons stalk me from time to time, to get caught up by staff when I'd take my Mother to her MDs in UCLA. They did, somehow, manage to get some MDs involved in some kind of "survey" cover of theirs. Ironically, I had strangers keep telling me that some of the Perps were based out of USC. Add the "study groups" out of Loyola Marymount, Mt. St Mary's, and UC Irvine, the scale, size, and breadth of the Church/Cult Groups involved is disturbing. From San Diego to Oxnard - Archdioceses to Bible Colleges. Heard Loma Linda's SDA Types were in it, too. Lovely.
Since I was looking into working at Toyota, Honda as an IT Contractor, I had a few Cult Types in the Neighborhood screw with me on almost every Job Interview, Job Fair, Industry Networking, and Foreign Employment situation (they've hired hackers, and have the local Police/Politicians, and of course, cult/ethnic Churches (including a Quaker, TWNese, KOR, Soka, and some Catholics providing Absolution as a Cover).
Now that I've been seeking and meeting up with Foreign VCs/Trade Reps for my next Projects, the Hecklers are desperate.
From the 10 KM Altitude View, Musk's employees and fan club members are in part supported by several factions that are seeking Musk's Subsidizing Trickle Down (and they need those Schemes to succeed at the expense of everyone else), as well as desperately seeking to prevent a Regional Brain Drain since SoCal is imploding while Major Employers are Leaving (bulk of Aerospace, Nissan, and now Toyota is due).
Now we know how Musk and Friends Play, I think things might get more diffcult over time. Once Warren Buffet and several MIC Corps close in, Musk could be written off quite quickly.
Doom Pr0n? Nope. TSLA's burning a pile of cash - wonder if they're burning it in their boiler rooms to keep their plant warm; and never met its boasted sales goals - to date. SpaceX's reliant on DoD/NASA Budgets. Neither Operation appears to be deep in Cash Reserves.
Also, if WTI stays at these present levels or even dips even further, people are going to buy SUVs and Hybrid Versions of these SUVs. If the Px goes up - more nextgen Hybrids and HFCVs.
I have not been a great fan of electric automobiles, but Tesla is creating some very advanced and impressive software.
http://www.geekwire.com/2015/watch-teslas-new-autopilot-technology-preve...
Time to tie Buffett up to a solar panel and stick him facing south on a rooftop.
Is this a new reality TV show for 2016?
It's practically impossible to go to a financial website without seeing a picture or an article of Buffet or Musk. Every day. Day after day after day. Every day of the week. Every week of the month. Every month of the year. Year after year after year.
et tu Tyler!
Psst- energy is kinda a big deal in financial circles......
The number of down votes is interesting. These two are the Kardashians of the financial world. Two self-promoters who suck on the taxpyers teat. The financial media worships them every day.
Otherwise, the economics of solar is certainly a good subject. Some good viewpoints were made.
Have plenty of friends getting super screwed by this bullshit. Nevada should be one giant solar collector anyway and export that to neighboring states. So now, solar owners have to pony up for Tesla batteries just so they can use the energy their panels produce instead of pushing it back to the grid for pennies on the dollar.
This type of shit is some of the most brazen oligarch vs. the people I've seen yet.
Solar is useless becasue it only supplies power for a maximum 6 hours a day. What about the other 18 hours?
Solar doesn't reduce the need for generation capacity ONE BIT. And in fact, thermal generators have to be on hot, spining standby, to kick in when a cloud goes in front of a bunch of solar farms. That spinning standby has to be PAID, regardless if they are putting power to the grid or not.
"it only supplies power for a maximum 6 hours a day"
That's when you need the AC most, and that's what saves other resourses from being burned.
Think positive troll!
I have no problem if you use solar yourself. As long as I don't have to pay for your use through government or utility subsidies.
Net metering is a reasonable deal for people with panels, and even better deal is FIT programs (Feed In Tarrifs) which pay solar producers many times the wholesale/reatail cost of generation. But again, I have to pay for it.
Want to put power (from any source) into the grid? No problem, you get paid wholseale rates the same as everyone else.
Thanks for covering this story. Let's see where else it shows up (or doesn't)
RIP Lemmy
"Our name is Motorhead and we play Rock and Roll"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iwC2QljLn4&list=RDoPB4gk-SSEs&index=5
I missed the story that he passed.
Gonna have to pull out the Motorhead LPs tonight and Love Me Like a Reptile.
Sorry neighbors, but I'm bridging together the Hafler amps and going full gonzo.
The Polk's are gonna squeal.
Haflers...???!!! Holy shit... I used to have a couple of DH-500's - remember those...?
Hell yeah. My older brother still has his DH amp.
I got myself a pair of 9270's with a 915 pre-amp in the early 90's.
Still rocking the Dual TT with an Ortofon 30 cart and some 4 ohm Polk 7Cs.
It get LOUD.
I got rock 'n' roll, to save me from the gold
And if that's all there is, it ain't so bad
Rock 'n' roll
Lemmy's sick sense of humor.
Q. How do you make a dead baby float?
A. Two scoops of ice cream, one scoop of dead baby.
Global warming Bitchezzzz.
Don't know what net-metering did pay, but where I live it was at the wholesale not retail price until they pulled a similar stunt.
Sorta puts the Reid-China-BLM-Bundy incident into perspective, eh?
Kind of reminds me of the bailout of the US auto industry. No one wanted to buy their shitty cars, but they made the US taxpayer pay for them anyway.
The Oligarch of Omaha wins again!
You too can have a perfect trading record, if you buy enough politicians and use them to rig every outcome.
Musk and Buffett both own Obama, so its a tie there. Buffett may have to bribe-- I mean make generous campaign contributions to-- some more federales to make this utility thing stick
So, it appears that Warren Buffet has succeeded in getting the Nevada feed-in tariff reduced. Householders will simply buy the PowerWall & defect from the grid. This will bring about the "death spiral", a positive feedback loop, as the owner(s) of the grid must, again and again, raise grid access charges to recover costs from an ever dwindling number of households connected to the grid.
this is actually a better way to look at it... the PUC just signed NV Energy's death warrant and didn't even realize it...
When I went off-grid in '79, metering was - 14c/kwh from the power co, 2c/kwh for power sold back to them, and you had to pay for a separate meter (and the usual fees and taxes). Net metering at 1::1 was always too good to be true, and 7::1 is an utter rippoff - the fair spot is somewhere in between...
Everytime my state has pushed them to net metering or close, the $/kwh magically goes to near-zero, and the network fees increase to cover that. Some of my connected neighbors went wild (multiple hot water heaters, jacuzzis and so on) and really got hammered when they got that law changed back, and started charging for power instead of network again...
I opted for the battery route, and zero meters, I have no connection to them at all.
The batteries aren't zero cost, of course. Expecting the power company, as much as I hate them - to be free batteries and wire isn't really reasonable in truth - but they are rapists and always have a thumb on the scale in their favor. Of course, Telsa wasn't an option then, I've had really good luck with Rolls-Surrette batteries on my homestead.
I like it the way I have it, complete independence. As a result of the power company being in charge of enforcing things like building permits in most localities (no power or a far higher price without them) - my property is asssesed much lower in value (less taxes!), and I don't need permits to build whatever I like on it. It works out if you start with raw land in the boonies...
A powerwall big enough to take a home off grid would cost over $60k, and that's without AC. If you want AC? Triple that cost.
The powerwall is not a product made for a purpose, it's Musk having surplus batteries and trying to find a use for them. It's not a case of using the BEST technology, it's using HIS technology.
If you want a real off grid storage system? Use a combination of Nickel-Iron and Lead-Acid batteries. It will cost less and last MUCH longer.
how about the reality that were it not for big subsidies the whole solar story would be a zero; why should I and other non-solar users pay for solar users in several ways: big tax breaks (but gov't costs still increase and other taxes are reaised to compensate), and then, the "net-meter" scam where solar users must be paid retail for what they produce with the difference once again being picked up by me & other non-solar types? Plus, the operating costs of the utilities don't go down, but the number of users does, so those not "being green" pay more for no reason than the bs rational of the subsidy scam.
So if solar is go great, just make the capex, do the promotion, and the world will jump on board...
until that happens, screw you solar types...build what you want, and do what you want, but don't be pissing in my beer because I'm not willing to support your yet-tobe-proven fantasy...
It's quite easy to overlook all the subsidies and other things that helped keep fossil fuels in their seat, isnt' it?
It must be as hard to name them
Funny how so many on this site don't understand the economics of rent seeking. Simply put, if anything is worth doing, it doesn't require gov subsidies in order to get it done, as profit seeking capital will flow there for the ROI.
A utility that I often work with only allows net-metering to be applied as a bill credit against consumption. They won't pay cash out directly since these people would then no longer be paying for the infrastructure that everyone else is paying for via base/consumption charges. In other words, they get a free ride on the grid.
Buffet is defending his particular form of parasitism.
Energy produced by citizens and sold onto the energy grid is a direct threat to modern finance and human's current concept of money. If it were to become widely popular most fiat currencies would collapse.
Honestly, the sooner all these fake subsidy programs disappear, the better. They are why solar is so expensive to install right now. It should not cost more than $2-3k to install solar on a home. But because of all the subsidies, the price is jacked up to $15-30k. If you really want to just install solar and cut off the power bills, this is good. You have to understand how that green subsidy works for selling power back. You are not selling anything back. The electric company is getting a subsidy for you to go green, and cutting you in on it. They call that selling power back to the power company. Well they don't need your power contribution, and you are not really giving them anything anyway. You are just getting a cut of some green initiative pork subsidy. All that money you get paid to "sell power back to the power company" is really coming from the government. Then all those installation tax breaks mean you can pay even more to the installers. It is all bullshit. Subsidies must end and prices must come down. Then you will see some solar installs taking place.
As it stands photovoltaic systems make no economic sense unless you have an electric car. It's that simple. The payback time for PV is in the decades without an EV. With EV for me 5-7 years.
Close, but not quite. The solar Payout does not exist unless and until NG Prices go back above $6/MMBtu. We are a long way from that adn then the only way you get the payout is if NG Prices stay above that level for the 5-7 years you speak of.
Those conditions have never occured in the US History and not likely to anytime soon. Sooooo, the only way solar makes sense is if the Govt Steals the money from one group to subsidize Solar.
I agree with the prior posters who said USG needs to get outta the pork biz. Hell, I would argue they need to be downsized by about 70% from here.
Even without subsidies solar is VERY expensive per kWh, and yes, the actual costs ARE in the neighbourhood of $15k - $30k +++, with or without subsidies. I've designed and work with installers, and costs for panels are HIGH. Add in mounts, labour, inverters, and all the wiring, and it's a major job.
Decent quality panels cost about $1000 per kW. A small house system should be at least a couple kW. Add the cost of inverters, another couple thousand, plus mounting framework, another couple thousand, wiring and LABOR, and it's easy to get over $10k for a small system.
Real costs of power generated from solar panels is on the order of 25 to 30 cents per kWh. The costs are lower in States with more sunshine and less cloudy days, and can get under 20 cents per kWh.
The term "efficiency" of solar panels is thrown around a lot. There is only one efficiency number that matters, and that's how many dollars per kWh. Meaning you can have a cheap, low efficiency solar panel that's much more cost effective than a high efficiency, but costly panel.
dont worry, by the end, solar panel owners will be taxed on the sunlight that shines on their house... hell why not tax everyone, and encourage people to install panels to pay for the tax?
Elon's victory is hiding in plain sight: Finance storage battery banks for existing and new solar residences - then cut off power return to the Orifice of Omaha's NV.
You mean WE finance storage battery banks for them. Like Buffett, Musk excels at being a welfare queen. If it ain't got a grant, he isn't quite so spendy.
And ole Warren is a Hillary supporter....LMAO!....you dumb dummycrats.......
Buffet will probably buy out/roll out Solar Power Plants to counter and bury Musk's Ops elsewhere.
There's blood in the water...
Buffet . . . nice old curmudgeonly grandfather figure. Bullshit!!
Warren Buffet, one of the ultimate proponents of cronyism.
Mister FRAUD.
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I'm not saying the current solar laws and regulations are appropriate... I'm sure they aren't. For one thing, they shouldn't exist.
What most folks don't realize is... solar can stand on its own today without any favorable regulations. However, solar cannot stand on its own today when regulations are skewed against solar. So the solution is to eliminate all regulations (on everything).
Solar is great if you only want power for 6 hours a day.
You want a solar system that will provide near grid supply, including AC? You will need to spend $150k.
I didn't spend anywhere near $150K for my system. And solar-panels + batteries + DC-to-AC converters provide 100% of my electricity.
My costs were roughly 25% of what you claim. I live 125km from the nearest human and have zero connection to outside systems. So I'm not fudging in any way.
However, as with many aspects of life, if you hire some ripoff artist [company] to install your system, you can easily pay 2x, 3x, 5x, 10x more than necessary. I purchased the components and assembled them myself (and I have 1~4 spares for many crucial components, so I can repair when necessary).
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Disclaimers: I don't know what your term "near grid supply" means, but I doubt that makes a difference to the issue.
Also, if you live in Alaska, Yukon or Antarctica, have a huge house built in energy-inefficient ways, and like to keep the place toasty warm with electric power, you'll need a lot more square meters of solar-panels and a lot more battery capacity than I have. But if much of your solar energy is for heating, then better to capture heat with other solar technologies, not panels of solar-cells.
Another big win for the environment. PUC not required to buy the excess energy produced. Same here in Louisiana it's maxed out at soething like 0.05% You don't read about that shit in the carbon tax bill. Electricity humming going nowhere in order to keep the fossil fuel producers making money. Corruption is as corruption does. Fucking hang 'em all including Musk.
This is so unfair to private Solar producers. I have friends that spent many thousands of dollars to install solar energy after being told they can sell back the unused energy back to PUC. Once again the government talks out of both sides of their mouths. This Warren Buffett fiasco makes that unfair and I hope they are sued for this. Governor Sandoval may find himself on the losing end of the next election too. He shouldn't pull this on taxpayers/voters.