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China Builds Second Aircraft Carrier As Xi Flexes Maritime Muscle
One topic we’ve spent quite a bit of time discussing is the rise of the PLA navy.
2015 was the year Xi reasserted China’s maritime might - and not just in the South Pacific.
By now, the entire world is well versed in the story of Beijing’s land reclamation efforts in the South China Sea. China has effectively created more than 3,000 acres of new sovereign territory in the Spratlys by piling sand atop reefs. The new “sand castles” - as the US calls them - are now home to an airstrip capable of landing military aircraft, ports, cement factories, a lighthouse, gardens, pigs, soldiers, and Xi only knows what else.
Suffice to say Washington’s regional allies aren’t amused and the Spratly archipelago has been a major foreign policy stumbling block for The White House since at least April.
But the PLA navy’s activities weren’t confined to dredging up sand in 2015. China also showed up unexpectedly at the besieged Yemeni port of Aden to evacuate civilians as the Houthis advanced on the city. That was a rare move for the Chinese. So rare in fact, that it took newswires hours to verify who exactly the soldiers were.
And there was of course the PLA’s trip by the Alaskan coast, just as Obama was visiting the state.
Now, China says it's building a second aircraft carrier. "China’s navy currently operates an aircraft carrier built from an imported Soviet-era hull, called the Liaoning, after the northeastern Chinese province where it is based," WSJ notes. "Analysts say the Liaoning serves mainly as a training ship."
(the Liaoning)
"The carrier is designed entirely by China, [and is] being constructed in Dalian," China's Ministry of Defense says. It will "use a conventional power plant" (as opposed to nuclear), and will "carry domestic J-15 aircraft." Early last month, China sent J-11BH/BHS fighter jets to Woody Island, south of Hainan.
Earlier this year, a US military assestment of China's navy said Beijing "continues to pursue an indigenous aircraft carrier program and could build multiple aircraft carriers over the next 15 years."
Needless to say, this is just one more sign that China is preparing to meaningfully expand its maritime capabilities on the way to building a true blue water navy. This of course also comes as tensions continue to rise in both the South China Sea (see the recent protest by dozens of Filipinos in the Spratlys) and the East China Sea (where Beijing and Tokyo are feuding over disputed islands and claims on oil and gas fields).
Get the popcorn.
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Below, find a complete recognition and identification guide for the PLA navy
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Wonder what the Japs will come up with.
Not certain, but I am sure it will be nuke powered.
Japs doing water and nukes together didn't work the first time around...
Maybe they have engines working with radiated Pacific water.
Why are we not funding this?.jpg
XASM-3 anti-ship missile
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/base/util/168762_1.jpg
https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/664945349052776448
Happy new year bitchez.
China has wasted so much productive capacity these last couple decades. Building an aircraft carrier just adds to it. Who are they going to push around like the US? Will they ever even reach that capacity before all their debt implodes and demographics pulls everything down?
There is still that 80 year old debt outstanding that needs to be repaid to a certain island nation in the vicinity.
Yeah, it really worked out well for the Chinese last time they tried invading Japan.
The Chinese will be called in for aid in about two years, the way the Japanese economy is going. The Japanese committed economic hari kari with their monetary policy, saving China any real worries.
Nukes baby Nukes they were not present last time.
Yup, but there were massive fully stocked chemical and bio weapon arsenals in every major and many middle power's forces before, and during all of WWII.
And no matter how any one was bombed or invaded, or was losing millions, or was about to lose million more, and lose the war, no one used them. No one wanted to repeat that lesson.
The Americans got away with using nukes in WWII because they were geographically isolated from direct air attacks, more than any other major combatant.
But they don't have impunity to reply nuke attack today, so won't do it. And the other guy won't do it either, because, he may as well nuke himself if he ever did.
So don't assume nukes will be used as it's just as likely they won't be used, at all. If ever.
And we'll all suddenly end up, against all expectations, in a classic knock-down drag 'em out conventional true world-war again.
I'm pretty sure that's what the Pentagon have essentially concluded would occur.
Those massively stocked chemical weapons are coming to an end after international ban.Nuclear nations make tactical nukes to be used in warfare unlike conventional MAD.Chinese doctrine allows them to use nukes if attacked first both tactical and even nuclear tipped carrier killer or anti-ship missiles.
Hey dude, having fun trying to distract from the point and weasel away from the implications?
Not one of Russia's or China's nukes will be used in the same way no one dared use the massive stocks of chemical and biological weapons they had in bombs, ready to go, during all of WWII.
Russia and China can talk wild-eyed rah-rah all they want about nukes, but they're holding a gun to their own head, and frankly, no one's buying your crap.
Happy new year.
Happy New Year. Still few hours left back here.
Strayan f-16 fanboy even in terms of conventional weapons having 1200 aircraft carrier killer missiles at the cost of one aircraft carrier exceeds the so called advantage you think US or japan posses in conventional weapon war. Welcome to the world of assymetric warfare. They aren't going to fight us navy in high seas where US holds advantage, coming out of your hibernation and you haven't learnt anything.
You realize states and groups that use asymmetric warfare do it out of desperation, as a result of having no other real options? And where has asymmetry worked out thus far? Oh, right, nowhere. Damn. And in case you haven't noticed this isn't their first rodeo. The world takes on a whole different complexion if the west unilaterally decides to change the rules. Can't say I'm looking forward to it, as interesting, colorful and enlightening as that will be.
What Debt, C_55?
War Reparations have been made; and even the Showa Emperor visited CHN, with many showing their approval after his speeches.
Decades Ago.
BTW,
CHN/JPN Trade continues to improve (more than JPN/USA in volume), even thought the TWNese made a "USA_MIC Approved" ruckus over an Island whose status was "still hanging and unresolved" at the time of CHN Premier's Visit to JPN and Normalization of relations. The Ruckus was made shortly after JPN and CHN decided to Trade with each other's Currencies instead of the USD or TWNese intermediaries; and TWN and KOR soon pulled of similar deals with CHN thereafter.
Are you keeping up with this, C-55?
With all that productive capacity, they might as well keep busy building a military. Can you think of any other country that spends billions it doesn't have building endless super expensive military weapons?
One person's "wasted productive capacity" is another's "more efficient utilization of underperforming assets"...
How many thousands of tons of steel is just laying around in Chinese warehouses, and how much additional demand is needed to keep to operable iron and steel mills from defaulting?
The Chinese could buy themselves some time if they went on a carrier building binge right now...
my only question is does DAL, JBLU, or UAL fly to the man-made, sandcastle where those 6 vixons in black & blue camos are? they can torture me all they want on my vacation week :)
seriously tho, i don't even know why this is a big deal. every country, especially the major superpowers, have a right to defend themselves. as an american, im all for NATIONAL DEFENSE ... what im not for is INTERNATIONAL OFFENSE which seems to be what we've been doing for far too long.
What the world needs in the New Year is more conflicts, more tensions and ramped-up military spending. The Nobel Prize Winner has never met a war that he declined.
Forward to more wars.
Sino-US Relations: 78% Chinese Believe West Intends to Contain China By Gu Di and Liu Xin Global Research, December 31, 2015http://www.globalresearch.ca/sino-us-relations-78-chinese-believe-west-i...
If they build them as fast as they throw up skyscrapers, should have about 20 of them by May. Don't take them out in a rough sea though.
I wouldn't bet on the low quality part. The US is not writing the specs and pocketing the difference.
Sorry dude I hate animated annoying gifs, had to block your avatar...
How did you do that?
By turning off your computer and going and doing something less boring instead!
" Don't take them out in a rough sea though. "
No worries. There are a billion where those others came from.
If it's Made In China .. I am not worried.
Made in Japan .. I"d be worried.
I do wonder what becomes of weaponry in this age of debasement.
Yep, Made in China = crap....that's why absolutely NO-ONE wants an I-Phone.
If you're giving them away, I'll take an I-Phone thanks and China makes crap because that's the market. They can make to high specification but would those people of WalMat pay more than a dollar?
China. Let's see - they do all the world's consumer electronics employing state of the art production facilities, and are the lowest cost producer. Not just electronics, either. They can build a military for a fraction of the cost the US spends, because they don't have to pay off well-connected business tycoons that own the US congress. Nothing to worry about here, eh?
Taiwan makes it not mainland China though ;)
True.
China just puts it together.
Apple doesnt make iphones out of cheap shit material or stupid mouthbreathers who vote.
Apple gets shit done son!
Thats why they are so costly.
If made in the US the labor would make it 15k or moar.
Fuck off with your bullshit apple hatred- ludditte hypocrite.
Where did I say in my post that I hate 'Apple'??
Are you the ghost of Diogenes or the Ghost of Steve Jobs?
Go fuck yourself, mong!
Time for a small crash --> NIRP --> a false flag job --> a big crash--> bail-ins to support the great war effort and set social controls in place.
All of America's wealth will be needed for the war machine and the soup kitchens for the old women and little kids that will remain behind with the predatory police while everywone else is sent to the big war.
If people do not resist this war and refuse to fight there will be nothing left of the US regardless if nukes are used or not.
Look at the above picture of the smoking hot Chinese babes (Soldiers-LOL) then take a look at the fat, butch-lesbo type bitches in the U.S. military..now tell me who you want to win?
As a side ....Who or What was that man/woman/thing who had their picture taken with naked, tortured Iraqis? What a fucking trog that thing was....Welcome to the U.S. bitches!!
Take your fucking big, fat, fucking, loud mouthed, idiotic, butch, manish STD-riddled whores and shove them up your HIV filled ass, Ash Carter. Give me that sweet, sweet Asian patootie pie.
Dragon ladies are tough, but they know how to treat a man with respect.
That butch would kick that dragon ladies in a one on one combat sitituation... If your life depended upon it!
Nobody fights hand to hand combat any more. You watch too many Kung Fu movies. Soldiers pull triggers or push the buttons to launch missiles.
Keep your dykes.
whatever sails your boat ;)
My life doesn't depend on it...I'm just choosey over who I fuck, I like silky skin (as oppose to hairy) flat stomachs (as oppose to flabby) and pert asses (as oppose to huge, dirty, brown caves)...but whatever floats your boat?!?!
Come off it, give them a crew cut and they'd look little different to the average dude.
You've obviously never been with an Asian woman, hairy legs, stomach overhangs and fat, wrinkly asses aren't 'normal' you know??
Oh well, keep fucking those trogs.
You're not referring to the Abu Ghrab naked pyramids as torture, again .... water boarding is effective and uncomfortable .... but naked pyramids .... this taints all your comments ?
That $3-4 trillion wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan would of been better spent on the Pacific Fleet.
Difficult to say... This may all be a 'show', as the Chinese know full well - by way of Russian technology, that the era of aircraft carrier power-projection is - well, long past its sell date... Missile technology is rendering these sea-going hulks more ridiculously vulnerable than ever before. And that doesn't even factor in ¥¥¥¥/$$$$ economies-of-scale... The only reason the U.S. keeps building them is because - well, look at the F-35 juxtaposed against Paul Ryan's $budget and draw your own (MIC) conclusions.
Carriers project power and threat even if they are sitting ducks. Is there any doubt Iran is pissed and devoting resources to monitoring US carriers in the Gulf? Yes Iran can take them out easily but the consequences would be severe. (and there should be no doubt that some in the US gov would just love to have a carrier hit by Iran and don't give a s**t about loss of life).
I do not understand those ramps .... on Soviet and Chinese aircraft carriers .... aside from the childish notion of a push up .... they have to be a momentary drag on airspeed .... when compared to a flat runway ?
US carriers use catapults to accelerate the aircraft over a short distance. Other nations use ski jumps to give the planes lift and need a longer takeoff run.
But it is interesting to see yet another nation take up the construction of what the Zhukov Hedge experts swear is a useless, obsolete warfighting platform.
To find their real weaknesses you need to have some.
What can they learn with two carriers that they have not already figured out with the ex-Soviet scrap queen they already have?
They fiugured out that the real weakness is operating a Soviet elephanto blanco that even Russia was eager to get rid of.
...and yet the Yanks are shitting their knickers about it...strange!!
Not strange at all. The US Navy has never forgotten the utility of portable airfields. Why would they be anxious to see the light bulb go on inside someone else's head. Someone they will have to fight.
But it is more as a harbinger of China deciding to challenge the USN for dominance rather than for the rickety tub itself.
No, when launched up a ramp it's facing upwards at say 15 degrees attitude already, without having to rotate away from horizontal to pull the nose up to force the angle of attack up to get air under winds to lift. Which all detracts from airspeed building up, or rather, deck speed. Plus at the top of the ramp they are considerably higher off the water at launch providing more reaction time and margin for Murphy, if stuff is not so good in engineering.
its because chinese airplanes are shit
they try hard to copy the design but they cant reproduce the engine
Your correct, them ramps probably cause a drag on the total knots capability of the carrier by probably 10.. About stupid...
It's a Brit invention. Ask the Brits how it works. They invented the aircraft carrier, and the angled deck, and the steam catapult, and the carrier landing lights, so they must know something about it...
Do the Brits still use them .... that would be telling ?
I don't think the brits have a navy anymore.
Its not politically correct.
The French made the Russian one they copied this one from.
The Brits have a great navy. On paper. If they could build it. If they had money. Weird, isn't it? London, the financial center of the world, highest concentration of rich people, but they can't afford a navy anymore.
You forgot the most important, armored decks.
My father, the Swiss carrier piiot served in the Pacific, often fumed about the US glory hound admirals
placing the RN carriers in relative backwaters while exposing their unarmored carriers to the kamikazees.
He said it cost the USN thousands on casualties for no reason but ego.
Everything comes at a cost. In the case of USN vs RN carriers, the cost was paid in terms of number of planes that could be carried.
Armored deck RN carriers could only field about 1/2 the air group of a comparable displacement American Essex class carrier. Against Italy or Germany, this was not a problem. Against the large carrier force available to Imperial Japan and the Japanese preference for the mighty Long Lance torpedo, and its smaller air launched variants, as a warship killer (see battleship HMS Prince of Wales and battlecruiser HMS Repulse as an example), it could have been.
The Essexes themselves were pre-war designs and built in quantity to bury the IJN-- which they did. The first American carriers designed on the basis of wartime experience, the Midway class, were much larger and featured both armored decks and an Essex-sized air wing.
The Pacific Fleet's strike force operated as the Fifth Fleet under Spruance for one operation while another staff, that of Halsey's Third Fleet, planned the upcoming operation. Then they switched off and kept up a fast operational tempo with this unique command structure.
Regardless of which officer's flag flew, however, there were four carrier task groups in the fleet, each comprised of two American fleet carriers and one light carrier built on surplus cruiser hulls. When the Royal Navy rejoined the Pacific War in 1945, it fielded one additional task group-sized unit as an appendage to the four American ones.
The one RN task group, which served cheek by jowl with their allies, took its share of kamikaze hits but could never have substituted for the vast air power fielded by the much larger American carrier force either as individual ships or in toto.
Hard to ciritque your post when ALL your facts are wrong.
You may wish to read 'The Forgotten Fleet', with its thousands of cites to disabuse your exceptionalism.
Too much Hollywood I suppose.A little effort on your part and you may learn the truth.
ALL my facts are wrong?
HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse weren't sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers?
The Essex class wasn't a pre-war design?
The Midway class didn't feature armored decks?
The Third and Fifth Fleet staffs didn't trade off command?
The Royal Navy didn't operate as TF 37 and 57 as a task group sized force in concert with the Third and Fifth Fleets in the Allied offensive aimed at the heart of Japan?
Royal Navy carriers did not carry air wings of 50-60 as opposed to 80-100 in American carriers?
Incidentally, they were highly dependent on US logistical support and most of their aircraft were American models, except for some carriers using the short-range Seafire fighter, which was a nice plane but could only be used as defensive CAP since it lacked long-range strike capability.
Without American planes, American high speed at-sea refueling capability and FOB support, and massed American air assets to overpower Japanese determination, the RN force would have been utterly ineffective on its own to attack Japan.
It was a valuable and welcome addition to the American offensive against Japan and the United States certainly profited from the Royal Navy's early adoption of such things as steam catapults and hurricane bows that remain present even in the current generation of carriers.
We were allies. We are allies. And I hope that we will remain allies. For freedom.
One sidebar subject - let me be the bearer of bad news - ROTFL!.
It was never for "Freedom". The Conflicts were made by Imperial Powers for decades; and it still is.
That's why they call it the 5 Eyes Alliance, Anglo-'Murican Hegmony, and now mostly, the 'Murican Hegemony.
We've VNM, DPK/KOR, IRQ, LBY, PNAC's_PLAN_for_the_7, UKR, and SYR to show for it.
It took decades to make steam catapaults work in western navys.
The ramps are for VSTOLS with/or without rocket assisted take offs.
CyanideSayonara
Thanks for the inputs .... for a moment I thought .... OMG maybe that´s the landing strip .... and it's kind of a run-a-way truck ramp ?
" .... OMG maybe that´s the landing strip .... and it's kind of a run-a-way truck ramp ?"
Think about it.
Its Russian (lack of) brains meets Chinese brawn(do) design (knockoff).
Every single russian plane is a copy of an american one, which is just a copy of the Germans.
So the best and the brightest got destroyed by the lowest and darkly spiritual.
PS I would totally bang all those female chinks in their silly digital not-camos.
What could go wrong rape!
The ramp up idea works very well. The Chinese were not the first, but why not use it? As far as the Russians copying US aircraft, I would say they don't. Certainly they didn't copy the F-35. And the Russians set an altitude record (Russian pilot Alexandr Fedotov holds the world altitude record, set on August 31, 1977, flying a MiG E-266M) that not even the super really cool US try-to-beat this titanium black you-know-what didn't exceed. Yes, the US X-15 rocket plane flew higher, but is not in the same class as a take off from a runway jet. You don't set altitude records copying. Russian designs are pretty damned good, helicopters included. The Russians are past the copycat stage, because they are building stuff to their specs the US does not match in several areas.
Didn't need to exceed it to beat Russian counter measure so it wasn't part of the design perameters. You believe Russian propanda about F-22 ad F-35? Very unwise!
...........hmm your diatribe on military tech is terrible. Another Muritard fanboy. Cue in ;)
Lots of people on this thread saying how shit China is at making things...that might be true..but it's got YOUR leaders (Snort in indignation) scared...McCain pissing his incontinance pants over the 'Shit' China makes...
Worried much?
How's that F35 working out for ya?
You decide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFNsqQMRDzA
http://www.youtube.com/v/ZtZNBkKdO5U?rel=0
http://www.youtube.com/v/LyHlp7tJrxY?rel=0
Gee, I wonder what the next gen (read: stolen) Russian and Chinese airframes are gonna look like?
You can't use logic with fanboys.
The Pentagon's $1.5 Trillion MistakeYou know the funny thing is that when you guys take that sort of silly line, it just means you're scared or else you'd be thrilled >3,000 F-35 are currently planned to be acquired, internationally. That must be a tremendous relief for you.
I notice Pootie had to call the Indian PM a few days back and drop the price on the T-50 PAK-FA from $6 billion to $3.4 billion, just to stop India walking away from it. So a 40% price drop due to poor demand ... but they don't even have any supply. And btw, that doesn't mean they've ordered it, they didn't, it'll be years until they do that, if at all. They said they'd buy 127 Rafales or Typhoons, seven years ago, and they're buying 36 instead. They didn't have the money, in seven years they simply didn't fund it. So PAK-AF is entertained by them for the next several years, only because it is politically convenient to not withdraw already, on the off chance a miracle occurs and they can afford to take a risk with it, or until something better becomes available.
But between you and me the PAK-AF will be built simply because Russian can't afford to produce the propulsion necessary for a genuine 5th Gen design, so is stuck with the T-50 instead, whereas the Chinese optimistically built a 5th-gen airframe design, but have nowhere near good enough engines to power it with. In fact the Pakistanis have just cancelled the replacement of the RD-93 in their J-17s (even after the imaginary PL-21s seem to have vanished). The planned replacement was the same developmental engine that was supposed to go into the J-31 "Smokey", to replace the hopelessly inadequate RD-93s in the only existing J-31 prototype.
So that jet's currently stuffed.
So it's all down to the J-20 now, and that's powered by (now get this) two Saturn AL-31F! The bloody thing looks like it weighs about 60k lb empty! So that's stuffed too, sans a technological miracle developing a WS-15, or an imported engine from somewhere.
So what's the bet they strip the Saturn 117s out of the Su35s, and replace them with old AL-31Fs out of J-11s, then put the 117S into the J-20s, and then just call them a "WS-15", to pretend they didn't really just do that? LOL :D
Hey, we both know they'll do that. LOL
It's going to be a laugh watching though. And if Pootie gets desperate enough he'll sell more 'AL-41Fs' to them anyway, to keep Saturn's doors open.
What has Russia or China to put up against it but your foul wind?
"China Builds Second Aircraft Carrier As Xi Flexes Maritime Muscle"
Unfortunately, its instruction manual is unintelligible.
Cute Chinese babes, though. That's a nifty camo pattern, too. Type 07:
http://camopedia.org/index.php?title=File:China1.jpg
CHN can build these in Bulk at a fraction of the Costs of doing so in the USA.
With the progress we've seen from their Industrial Espionage-Copycatting, expect an "Improved, Nuke Powered Version", with EM_Launchers installed within 10-15 Years.
Not the Brown Water Navy of the past few decades. Once they start moving entire BattleGroups across several Oceans, it will get VERY Interesting.
What China should do is to pursue all US aircraft carriers with a frigate loaded with nuclear missiles, at all times so that US Aircraft carriers could be destroyed in a short time in a contingency