Guns Don't Cause Suicide

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Ryan McMaken via The Mises Institute,

Homicide rates in the United States have been declining for 20 years as the number of privately-held guns in the US has increased substantially.

In some states, such as New Hampshire and Oregon, which have very weak gun laws, homicide rates are remarkably low, and these states are among the safest places on earth.

As homicide rates have declined, however, and gun-related homicides with them, gun-control advocates have attempted to create a new category of "gun violence" by blaming suicides on access to guns.

Most "Gun Violence" Is Suicide 

Note this recent article from The Washington Post which casts suicide as indistinguishable from homicide, and goes on to point out that there were as many firearm related deaths in 2014 as there were deaths that resulted from automobile accidents.

The article rightly notes that thanks to medical science and safety features on automobiles, deaths from car accidents have gone into steep decline in recent years. The article then notes that suicides have been increasing over the same period, but then attempts to connect this rise with access to firearms.

The article never explicitly says that suicides are indistinguishable from homicides, of course — since any rational person can see a large and obvious distinction —  but it does imply the two are more  or less the same by classifying both firearm-related suicides and firearm-related homicides as "gun violence."

Employing the usual lazy methods of mainstream journalists, The Post fails to provide hard numbers or to direct links to sources, so I'll do it for you:

To come up with this new category of "gun violence" The Post combines the CDC's statistics of firearm suicides (a total of 21,175 in 2013) to the total of gun homicides (a total of 11,201 in 2013). Then it compares this total to the number of accidental automobile deaths, which was 33,804 in 2014. (The article claims there is new 2014 data from the CDC showing more gun deaths than automobile deaths, but the CDC web site has not been updated to reflect this.)

 

So, overall, as of 2013, there were 32,376 gun deaths and 33,804 automobile deaths. (During that same period, about one-third of automobile deaths were alcohol-related.)

 

So, yes, according to the CDC, the number of gun-related deaths and the number of automobile deaths are similar — but only if suicides are included.

Contained in all of this, however, is the implied conclusion that were it not for such easy access to guns, the suicide rate in the US would be lower. This is of course pure speculation, and rather baseless speculation at that.

More Guns, Less Suicide Than Much of Europe

Certainly, if we compare the US to other countries, we have no reason to believe that suicides in the US are unusually common. Indeed, the US is very unremarkable in terms of suicide rates. Deborah Azrael at the Harvard Youth Violence Prevention Center has said "cut it however you want: in places where exposure to guns is higher, more people die of suicide." But, for anyone who can do arithmetic and make simple comparisons, this claim is easily shown to be bunk: 

Source. (OECD Data.)

The US comes in between gun-restrictive countries Sweden and Austria, and, of course, has a suicide rates far below that of Japan which is often held up as a paradise of gun-free non-violence. Korea, where privately-owned guns are nearly non-existent, has one of the worst suicide rates in the world. The US also has a suicide rate about equal to Switzerland, which in spite of its reputation as being a country of gun-toters, is estimated to have less than half as many guns per capita as the United States.

Nevertheless, lumping suicides in with homicides is a key component of anti-gun propaganda. The Brady campaign, for example, does not employ homicide rates in its state-by-state analysis. If it did, it would find that the states with the least amount of gun control often have the lowest homicide rates. Instead, Brady relies on "gun violence" rates, which allows it to count states with rock-bottom homicide rates, like Idaho and Vermont, as states with lots of "gun violence." (In the US, altitude appears to correlate more with suicide than gun ownership.)

This is a tricky sleight of hand maneuver, of course, since, when we're talking public policy, what people fear are homicides, not suicides.  Even Noah Smith, the Austrian-economics-hating, left-of-center finance blogger admits that classifying suicides as "gun violence" is stretching things a bit:

With accidental gun deaths steady at around 500-600 per year, the bulk of those 32,000 "gun deaths" are suicides...In fact, murder by gun has been falling steadily since the early 1990s. Some of that is due to improvements in emergency medicine, but most is a result of the overall decline in violent crime that America has enjoyed over the last two decades. The fact that overall gun deaths has risen since 2000, despite the fall in murders, suggests that increased gun suicide has accounted for more than 100% of the increase in gun deaths. Obviously, suicide is a tragedy, and I don't want to minimize it. But people aren't panicking over suicide, they're panicking over murder, and gun-related murder is on the way down.

(By the way, in 2013, accidental deaths by firearms was 505 (according to the CDC). That's out of a total of over 130,000 accidental deaths in a country of 300 million people. In other words, the accidental gun-deaths total is extremely small.)
 
Won't Somebody Think of the Children? 

But what about little Johnny? Maybe he won't commit suicide if there are fewer guns around.

First of all, in regards to teenage suicide, we know that the United States is unremarkable in this measure as well.  In the 15-19 age group, suicides are less common in the US than in 14 OECD countries (plus Russia):

Moreover, according to the CDC, intentional self harm (suicide) using a firearms is less likely in the lower age groups than suicide by some other means. In the 15-24 age group, for example, more suicides happen by means of something other than a firearm (6.1 per 100,000) than by firearm (5 per 100,000). This is true for all the younger age groups, and we only find that firearms suicides become more common than non-firearm suicides in the 55-64 age group or above.

And yet, we never hear of "rope violence" or "carbon monoxide violence" or "prescription drug violence" when other methods are used for suicide.

More alarming for parents should be the fact that deaths by prescription painkillers alone (whether suicide or accidental) totaled 16,000 in 2013.  If we include drug overdoses in general, the total balloons to 46,000 deaths (suicide and accidental) which means that government-controlled or prohibited substances account for more than twice as many deaths as gun suicides, and more than four times as many compared to gun homicides.

Moreover, it is hotly debated as to whether or not anti-depressants might actually increase the likelihood of suicide. There are only a handful of studies on the matter, and they tend to contradict each other.

Given the lack of knowledge over the causes of suicide, perhaps it might make more sense to take a look at why people commit suicide than to fixate on the methods people might use. This appears to be especially obvious given that lack of access to a gun clearly does not prevent the very high suicide rates in Japan and Korea.

But, when it comes to preventing fatalities, only gun ownership is to be a topic of a "national debate."

When a driver recently mowed down diners with her car on the Las Vegas strip, there was no call for a "national debate" over licensing of drivers. And certainly, there is no call for a "national debate" over the prevalence of deadly prescription painkillers in millions of American homes.

Pro-Suicide, Anti-Gun

Even more illogical is the fact that many advocates of gun control who pretend to be greatly concerned over suicide, actually applaud suicide in other contexts, and in some cases, those who claim to be advocating for fewer suicides via their opposition to guns, simultaneously will advocate for more suicide in the form of "assisted suicide" and euthanasia laws.

When Brittany Maynard opted to kill herself rather than suffer from brain cancer, she was treated as a hero by many on the left, and "assisted suicide" has long been a project of the left, which seeks to make suicide easier. We also often hear about how "progressive" Belgium is, where the elderly and children are encouraged to embrace euthanasia.

So, for the pro-suicide, anti-gun party, they should stop pretending to be concerned about suicide, but should instead admit that they merely object to the means of attaining it. They simply want people to die by some other method. That's fair enough, and if adults wish to contract with someone else to poison themselves, that's not the state's business. Indeed, if there are people who would prefer suicide using a third party instead of a gun, it is not legitimate for the state to prevent that. At the same time, let's stop pretending that people who applaud Brittany Maynard while decrying suicide as "gun violence" are interested in suicide prevention. They're not.

 

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Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:00 | 7007226 KesselRunin12Parsecs
KesselRunin12Parsecs's picture

Ban jumping off of bridges (because we don't need anymore Obama crocodile tears). If you jump off a bridge, the GOVERNMENT should give you the death penalty!

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:21 | 7007335 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

Here's my plan for fixing EVERYTHING. I'm sorry but the way things are going, unless Obama is impeached immediately, we will be in full blown tyranny and a dictatorship. God help us is Hitlery gets in office. The best thing to have happen is Obama impeached and tried, the banking system to fully collapse for it to be exposed and then to go back to constitutional money.  That is about the only way to save this USSA we have right now. People need a wake up call. The welfare system needs to collapse as well, no more free handouts for people or corporations. 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:49 | 7007433 Demdere
Demdere's picture

There is no way to save the system, we want the person elected who is best and most responsible to take the blame.  That is Hillary, but Twig will do.  Definitely not Trump, because that will deflect blame from the Progressives of Left and Progressives of the Right (Israeli-Neocons).  Trump is one of the latter, I think, but not so obviously as to be the right guy to blame for the foreign policy fiasco of Kissinger+ era.

So I am going to vote for Trump, as Trump is the only person Hillary can beat..  Twig and the other republicans would have some small chance, and while I am very happy to hang them all, the Left Progressives are the ones we hate the most, and so the probability of easily putting her regiem back inside the Constitution is highest, they have even less credibility than Republicans.

I don't think taking down the gov is a big problem, btw.  The problem is what do you do next?  If you break it worse than it is, you will be blamed and the people who set everything up will get off.  If SS checks are not delivered the fabric of reality begins to fray, and chaos happens, for which you will be blamed.  Not sense, but political rules and enforced by the amount of mind people can spare to political issues.

Trump makes a certain sense in that light, it seems to me.  This disaster is coming ever-closer, 9/11 was a change in everything, and people are catching on to the amount of manipulation and the long-term psyops of intelligence agencies that were necessary for things like 9/11.  If I wanted to cover my tracks, someone who looks independent but who can be depended to make decisions go our way as everything falls apart would be a good choice.

Unless a Presidential candidate makes 9/11FF the major plank of their platform, they are not on our side. Israeli-Neocons are the existential threat to the world.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:49 | 7007455 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

I do agree with you. At this point I have come the the conclussion that it matters not what I think or what you thikg or what anyone thinks, this system is going to collapse no matter what. I firmly belive we will be in full tyranny soon. There is no political will from the people to make ANY sacrifices. 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:45 | 7007711 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

If you really feel this way, Israeli-Neocons are the existential threat to the world...how can you vote for Satanyahoo's best friend who also wants to hang the hero Edward Snowden who revealed all of our data was going to Israhell?

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:57 | 7007768 Hitlery_4_Dictator
Hitlery_4_Dictator's picture

I never said I was going to vote for Trump....voting is for fools anyways

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 22:55 | 7008814 TheAntiProgressive
TheAntiProgressive's picture

Stop taxing the desire out of the people and the domestic corporations and institute some big tariffs and cut the taxes.  We are running 400 Billion + a year trade deficit.  Fix it.  Bring jobs home.  let the free market here work.  Now you say but tarriffs aren't free market.  Well when you have the world manipulating currencies only a select few get the benefit with across the board flat tarriffs the people get relief.  Break up the banks, get rid of torts or make them "manageable" with ceilings, open up healthcare totally to free market forces.  Demand big pharma who uses tax rebates to develop drugs then charges more for the end product here and then sells it cheap overseas in order to get "market share".  No price less than the posted price here where the people here ultimately paid for its' development, but, but that is price controls.  No, they can charge what they want, just not less than what it is sold here for.  I got a million of them.

 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:34 | 7007385 junction
junction's picture

Clinton aide Vince Foster's death now certainly qualifies as "gun violence" since now both murder and suicide are statistically the same to some liars.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 21:57 | 7008464 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

How idiotic - we all know that guns don't cause suicides. Hot tubs and nailguns are the real culprits.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:43 | 7007699 BullyBearish
BullyBearish's picture

What a world...pro-life people want the death penalty, pro-suicide folks for gun control...next thing you know the fed will be reducing our debt

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:00 | 7007232 ChargingHandle
ChargingHandle's picture

Spoons made me fat. Who can I sue?

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:02 | 7007249 813kml
813kml's picture

Forks, for spurning your advances.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 20:03 | 7007792 Occams_Chainsaw
Occams_Chainsaw's picture

I only have sporks from KFC.  I'm suing the spork manufacturer.  Fuckers.....

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:00 | 7007235 stant
stant's picture

Obviously we need to encourage more 14 th floor Gopro jumps. And nail guns

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:05 | 7007265 Jason T
Jason T's picture

prescription pain killer?  WTF!?

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:08 | 7007277 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Just think of the gun violence stats if we could begin killing fetuses with 357's........

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:10 | 7007286 Kirk2NCC1701
Kirk2NCC1701's picture

I'm surprised by the high stats for Canada, Chile, France, Hungary, Japan, New Zealand, Slovenia, Russia.  All of which are worse than for the US.

And equally surprised by the low stats for Greece.  For once, I have no explanation or rational hypothesis that comes to mind.  Wow!

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:48 | 7007446 cheech_wizard
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:35 | 7007644 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Cloudy, cold, and dreary and/or a fucked up high tax, cradle to grave government that results in a meaningless life. 

 

Greece has a shitty economy, but it's nice and sunny. They are used to being poor and have been for the past 2000 years.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:13 | 7007298 DontWorry
DontWorry's picture

Suicide, depression and dug abuse is rampant in the white middle aged male middle class.  http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rates-rising-for-middle-a... This is the group that has been decimated by government policy of exporting manufactuing, importing H1B and H2B visa workers, financialization and deregulation.  This is the group that is furious.  Guns arent killing this group, the government is.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:20 | 7007326 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

But on da teevee dey said that lots of people be dying of dem der gunz.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:25 | 7007354 fowlerja
fowlerja's picture

Not sure where this all leads but I wonder if they give gun safety courses on how to protect yourself if you try to shoot yourself...just a curious mind sitting on a bridge railing...

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:29 | 7007368 Spungo
Spungo's picture

Guns are the pussy way out. I plan to drive my car into oncoming highway traffic and take a family of innocent people with me.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:50 | 7007457 cheech_wizard
cheech_wizard's picture

Seriously? You are part of the problem. Can't you at least have the decency to run over a corrupt politician or Wall St. banker?

 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:54 | 7007474 boattrash
boattrash's picture

Please, please do it on K-Street or the DC Beltway.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:37 | 7007657 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Do it on Wall Street.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:31 | 7007372 Mandel Bot
Mandel Bot's picture

For the umpteenth time: Its not about guns, its all about control.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:36 | 7007393 prmths2
prmths2's picture

A little over a week ago, a woman in Oregon bought a toy revolver, removed the safety tip,  and tried to provoke the Corvallis police into shooting her. The police held their fire and she eventually dropped the gun and was taken into custody and transported to a medical center for psychiatric evaluation. Any conversation about suicide prevention should start with mental health, not with guns.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:36 | 7007396 Salsipuedes
Salsipuedes's picture

Maybe, but NAIL guns SPELL suicide, capiche?

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:19 | 7007573 GhostOfDiogenes
GhostOfDiogenes's picture

How does one spell "nail gun" in yiddish?

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:39 | 7007671 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture
nogl bix
Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:38 | 7007411 Consuelo
Consuelo's picture

Cars and prescription drugs do not an effective defense against Tyranny, make...   

 

Mandel Bot's post above sums it up.

 

 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 18:42 | 7007419 Squid Viscous
Squid Viscous's picture

preventing suicides = the last bastion of some gun control idiots, first hand experience...

 

made short work of him and wife, but just sent this article as an extra slap upside their heads

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:01 | 7007463 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

Unleash the muslim rapists stateside and they can count them into the total also.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 22:23 | 7008608 paint it red ca...
paint it red call it hell's picture

I am afraid. You cannot separate this from the debate about refugee situation. In my opinion we have to help the refugees but we also have to realize and face  the danger that comes as  a side effect with this policy  and we have to stand up to it!” another Cologne resident, a middle-aged man, said.

https://www.rt.com/news/328118-cologne-police-assaults-unprepared/

And what is the substantiation again the administration is manipulating to disarmed citizens, reduced suicides?????? So just how is it the German citizen "stands up to it" since their government has sold them out. How is it the Swedish citizen "stands up to it" since their government sold them out?

Bird shot and Pen Knives, call the police? Wait for the feds?

"Eventually we had a situation where a large group of men were going after women. We did intervene and help. But I'll admit that we were totally bewildered by it all. We have never encountered incidents like this before and we weren't prepared for it," Cologne Chief of Police, Wolfgang Albers, told RT.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:02 | 7007503 Niall Of The Ni...
Niall Of The Nine Hostages's picture

He forgot to mention that encouraging the suicide of working-class white men is a matter of national policy. Alcohol takes much longer to do the job of a gunshot, and much more painfully, but it makes for more plausible deniability of the government's role.

As long as angry white men are only threats to themselves and  their loved ones, and not to anybody of real importance, everything is awesome.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:04 | 7007514 NoWayJose
NoWayJose's picture

Oregon and New Hampshire safest? No correlation between homicides and number of guns? Try this correlation with homicides - percent of blacks. Oregon and New Hampshire have less than 2% black populations.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:28 | 7007611 Laddie
Laddie's picture

@NoWayJose

That was also my first thought upon reading this.
People of color tend to commit almost ALL of the violence in the USSA.

Indianapolis Playground Beating: Girl and Her Little Brother Brutally Attacked in Park March 15, 2015
The Indianapolis playground beating may have been racially motivated. The victim and her brother were white and the attackers appeared to be black. As the victim was asking why she was being attacked, one of the boys in the group appeared to answer, “You white, bitch.”
Young Girl and Little Brother attacked
Video posted on (and removed from) Facebook of brutal attack on a female and her little brother
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b10_1426395873

To think this is some rare case just read this website for a month or so, it has been up since 1995 and save for being TERRORIZED into a shutdown by the owner due to real and serious threats to the safety of his wife and children a couple of years ago by the hackers ANONYMOUS, a brave White gentleman by himself took it over. It is INVALUABLE and PROVES beyond a reasonable doubt the GUILT of the Tribe in DECEIVING their victims: THE WHITES of America. http://newnation.org/

Professor Kevin MacDonald’s ‘The Culture of Critique’ Reviewed review written in 1999

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:06 | 7007519 GRDguy
GRDguy's picture

The Gun Lobby protects us from the Money Lobby.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:13 | 7007524 Conax
Conax's picture

If guns cause suicides people would show up at Jim's Gun Superstore with a bullet in their pocket and ask to take a look at a gun;

BLAM!

Poor Marv the janitor would have a mess to clean up in aisle 2.

I don't recall a single case like this.

If a guy has a gun, decides to off himself, well, should he try the battery drill or the gun?

 

Suicide is up because you can only start over so many times.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:15 | 7007556 undertow1141
undertow1141's picture

Suicide goes up when hope goes down. Its just easier for the control freaks to blame the tool instead of the circumstances.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 21:11 | 7008189 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

I left my brain on the blueberry muffins.........

 

Sing it to the tune of 'Blueberry Hill'

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:13 | 7007549 undertow1141
undertow1141's picture

 

If I can't blame all Muslims for terrorism.

How are all gun owners responsible for all gun crime?

 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:22 | 7007588 Laddie
Laddie's picture

There is a REASON behind the gun grab.

New Obama Gun Rules Require Those Selling Even A SINGLE FIREARM to Become Licensed Dealers
Order also brings back plan to keep certain Social Security recipients from buying guns

OBAMA COMING FOR GUNS IN FINAL YEAR

Interview with Professor Kevin MacDonald October 23, 2015 Discusses the immigrant surge in Germany and loss of 2nd Amendment through immigration displacement of the founding stock of America, the Whites.
http://mediaarchives.gsradio.net/dduke/102315.mp3
This is discussed by Dr MacDonald:

The NRA will fall. It’s inevitable. Just look at the demographics. The Washington Post, October 19, 2015
by Adam Winkler professor at UCLA School of Law

The fastest-growing minority group in America is Latinos. Between 2000 and 2010, the nation’s Latino population grew by 43 percent. Hispanics, which make up 17 percent of the population today, are expected to grow to 30 percent of the population in the coming decades.

Gun control is extremely popular among Hispanics, with 75 percent favoring gun safety over gun rights.

Asian Americans also represent a growing anti-gun demographic. Although only about 5 percent of the population today, the Asian American population is predicted to triple over the next few decades. A recent poll of Asian American registered voters found that 80 percent supported stricter gun laws.

See also:
Jews and Jewish organizations lead the gun control campaign by Professor Kevin MacDonald

Jews and Gun Control: A Reprise by Andrew Joyce, PhD

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:44 | 7007694 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

That's what they tell you. Most of the Hispanics I know own guns. 

 

The real demographic battle is between cities vs the suburbs and rural areas. The cities don't want a real war there. Supply routes can easily be disturbed and the next thing they know, there is no food, water, or electricity in the cities. 

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 20:07 | 7007808 I AM SULLY
I AM SULLY's picture

Bingo - back of the napkin ...

http://iamsully.com/?p=14899

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:23 | 7007592 What is The Hedge
What is The Hedge's picture

Tylenol causes suicide!

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:36 | 7007600 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

I call bullshit on both sides of this argument on the stats.  They must be getting them from BLS.

From personal experience, rope.

Within 1 yr in my suburb, there were 5 suicides.  Ages 14-19, 3-male, 2-female all with guns.

Correlation is not causation, yet they happened to coincide with the smart meter rollout.

Given the brain does not come to physical maturity until the mid-twenties, coupled with teenage hormones that alone explains alot of impulsive behavior.  A juiced up nervous system from EMF is another factor.

Also, according to Barrie Trower-microwave weapons expert, teenage suicides rose dramatically after the rollout of tetraband in Wales.

The spin on both sides of this argument are pathetic.

Nothing mentioned of societal breakdown of the family, employment, perish the thought pedophilia plays a roll.  The GAO's own report on child molestation (reported) grades k-12 is at 15%.

Guns got nuffin to do with it.

God help those touched by it.

For those left, it is a life sentence of death without dying.

Fuck anyone trying to manipulate suicide for any agenda.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:30 | 7007629 navy62802
navy62802's picture

The purpose of gun control is population control. After visiting many nations, I can say that the commonality among all impoverished nations was that the citizens had no recourse against a repressive government. Another commonality in these nations was a 100% prohibition of firearms. The restriction of firearms among the populace is not a method to ensure public safety. It is a method by which the government imposes control over the population. And this gets back to the original intent of the 2nd Amendment. This amendment is not meant to protect hunters or recreational shooters. This amendment is intended to preserve the inherent right of people to violently resist an unjust government. It is a meaning which is actively attacked by those in power. And we shouldn't be surprised or shocked. The desire of the powerful to kill all possible avenues of resistence should be expected, as it was by the founding fathers. But the bottom line is that the 2nd Amendment is not some sort of enforcement of recreational rights. It is, instead, a statement of support for citizens' rights to violently oppose an unjust government. If we lose this constitutional protection, the future is darker than the past.

Wed, 01/06/2016 - 19:48 | 7007727 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Musket balls, still hurt when you're wearing a kevlar vest.

  It's not hard to take a gun from an errant, unwillling soldier, and turn it against your foe.

  Learning to fire the weapon, cycle ammunition, and maintain the weapon is key.

 Re-loading ammunition, and access to Non-Corrosive lubricants, is a plus.

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