CHaNGe THiS!

Comments

[theliberalliberal]

call it an f/

[Ghordius]

+1 nmewn. one caveat, though

"it is a known fact societies world wide place a high value on telling the truth, so much so that they make telling lies under certain circumstances, a crime."

excellent sentence. the emphasis, though, ought to be on certain circumstances

1) lying to the goons that want to kill people that you are sheltering from them, for example, is generally accepted as partisan, but counts as circumstance

2) societies world wide place a high value on... double standards, too

what is a double standard, exactly? well, in a way it's related to conspiracies and those circumstances

every and each of us is born and raised in a web of social and familial... lies

- nobody might tell you in your face that Uncle is in prison until you are old enough, or that Auntie is an alcoholic

- you are raised in the belief of Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy and... that you ought not to lie

- meanwhile, at a certain stage of your development, you learn - and start to rebel - against giving the same thing two different labels, two different definitions, of peple around you being circumstantial, applying double standards, avoiding the unpalatable truths or telling straight lies

- later, you apply the same on the next generation

- I repeat: later, you lie to your children. about Santa Claus. about the Tooth Fairy. about never lying

- in other words: your children have to learn about the Santa Claus Conspiracy Of The Adults for themselves

in this, the US, seen from here, is exceptional. what is really exceptional is how much emphasis is given on "tell the truth" in America

as if a society could even function without a heavy dose of White Lies

compare and contrast this with the typical French President. not even one French man or French woman above the age of consent really believes that the French President does not have sex with his fans, his wife and of course with his girlfriend, too. the latest one was so funny because he had two girlfriends, one official and one secret, and there was this moment where it was unclear what official status they had, each

so you Americans have this special White Lie: that there is a President that is also a functioning male that nevertheless is not surrounded by female fans that find power irresistibly attractive, and that he does restrain himself from taking advantage

so for some reason you witness what a Rock Star is for fandom, but you have this prurient urge of... sheltering the eyes on the effects of Power on the female sex

hence the exceptional show that was the Clinton Affair With That Woman, up to him going from a non-criminal lie that would have passed, elsewhere, to one that is criminal because of the legal surroundings

we were very entertained, here. on several levels. including our jokes on the "eternal youthfulness of America" or "The American, The Eternal... Teenager" ;-)

[nmewn]

"so you Americans have this special White Lie: that there is a President that is also a functioning male that nevertheless is not surrounded by female fans that find power irresistibly attractive, and that he does restrain himself from taking advantage"

I'm pretty sure I pointed out her lack of ethics in seeking patronage through "an authority figure" and I'm real sure I said lying about the sex was unethical as well. Giving favor or seeking favor on my dime is unethical (I paid his salary), we don't have kings & queens here, at least we didn't use to.

If Bubba had been a bum laying in the gutter she wouldn't have wanted to have sex with him, would she? ;-)

[Ghordius]

yes, you did. the White Lie is that there is any human that at the same time seeks power... but has the super-human strenght of resisting other urges

it's simply not possible. the human seeking office seeks power. i.e. does not resist power. meaning it's a human that is already a bit... deficient in ethics

you are somehow expecting the Warrior Monk, or the Worldy Saint, or something... that at the same time is willing to go through the Great Deceit that is the whole thing of going for public office

in a way, you want a Great King... but you want an Election, Too. Instead of opting for a fallible, human magistrate needing checks and balances and supervision

look, this problem is a bit everywhere. you just elevated it to a Great Artifice

the Office of the President of the United States is really a Father of The Nation Office. and what do fathers to children? they lie to them, and tell them there is a Santa Claus

all politicians lie. a bit. depending on circumstances, in the best cases

contemplate the phenomenon of Juncker telling his electorate that he lies, when it's necessary. and his electorate... nodding. and voting for him again

now contemplate the national distraught that the same action from a US Prez would have on people around you, or the recurring comments we read here on ZH about those words

could any American politician aspire to office again after having told his electorate that he sometimes lies to them?

there is a difference. I am making jokes, but actually it could be seen as very serious

[nmewn]

Yes I did what? 

You know what my schedule is in the mornings, leave no response to this and we'll pick it back up later, about "white lies"...

[Ghordius]

my fault, I meant yes you did to "I'm pretty sure I pointed out her lack of ethics...". my points are more on the act of lying then of ethics in general

[nmewn]

Well (if you're still around) thats the thing then isn't it? We shouldn't expect (or accept) our/your politicians lying, for if they will lie about trivial things (like sex, even under oath, under threat of perjury) they will lie about anything, from the Fed to health insurance to even their own technocratic prowess at solving the problems they themselves have created. 

I would also remind you of where the Tooth Fairy & Santa Claus originated.

/////

Ahhh my little troll bot, thanks for not dinging Ghordius, you always show me more about yourself than you could ever hope to explain.

By your very actions ;-)

[OldPhart]

nmewn you continually impress the shit out of me.

People you can't understand ethics, or even morality, if you've never been taught the concept to start with.

We have two or three generations of human beings that largely lack ethics and morality.  The consequences of that, combined with what our government had morphed into, is a recipe for disaster.

Most have never heard of the Golden Rule (the original).  "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

The new age Golden Rule is:  He who has the Gold, rules.

Similar to the new age Peter Principle:  "The biggest Peter (prick) rises to the top."

Originally: "One rises to their highest level of incompetance."

[nmewn]

Well thanks OP, I thought a little more detail was required to explain the ancient concept of why ethics are important, of what it looks like when they are violated, which lead people into very dangerous places.

The tender foots know they were lied to by their leaders, they can feel it in their very souls that it is wrong but they cannot explain coherently why it's wrong (because they were never taught) just as (for example to say) "You'll save $2,500 dollars a year on average." or "If you like your plan you can keep your plan!" and there be no consequence for the telling of the lies. Not only were those lies a breach of ethics, those lies have once again turned into real crimes where we are the victims, being robbed, stolen from, daily, all quite "legally".

What happens is, the people see the lying as having no real consequence therefore it appears to be acceptable to the society as a whole to lie, to lie openly, unabashedly, unashamed and go unpunished.

I'm here to tell them it does have consequences and it does get punished, we see it even now in the lack of trust and faith among society shown towards the ones doing the lying.

It should be a great fire, just in time to keep our hands warm ;-)

[Casey Jones]

Bill is up to his elbows in OK City don't forget. The dry run for 9/11.

[OldPhart]

OKCity was an early rehearsal.  The real test was Waco.

I imagine most of the younger folks here have no reference to that.

[More Ammo]

Will be interesting to see how far they go in Oregon...

[HowdyDoody]

Ethics?

When asked by a reporter about the illegal war on Iraq following 911, "We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that's more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?", Madelene Albright replied "we think the price is worth it."

That and the obsession over Clinton lying about having sex perfectly sum up "American Ethics".

[nmewn]

Well, Mrs Cankles did vote to let Bush do whatever he felt like doing, didn't she? And he did.

Situational ethics to absolve the unethical do not impress me.

Clinton lied twice. Onceto the the public and once under threat of perjury, which he also committed.

But he did have a great bombing campaign from 20,000 feet, so you jokers will always have that; -)

[conscious being]

# "Situational ethics to absolve the unethical do not impress me." nmewn, Howdy Doody is not absolving anyone, ie. Clinton, he's making a comparison between different degrees of moral failure. Albright was Cliton's Secretary of State and voiced approval for the death of close to half a million children. By comparison, Bill's exploits with a cigar don't seem like such a big deal. Bill got rid of Glass Steagall and was supposed to be a serial rapist. He's not saying Clinton good / Bush bad. He's saying, his special dislike for Clinton is not the same as yours. Hope that's helpful.

[nmewn]

It was.

And I hope you all understand that a man (or woman) placed in a position of authority who abuses that authority should be stripped of that authority immediately.

Ethically speaking, he had sex with a subordinate (thats one) he then lied about it to the public in a national telecast (thats two) then "someone" put it in Monica's head she needed to lie too in a legal affidavit (thats three and the someone was probably not Monica) then she tried to suborn perjury (thats four-Linda Tripp & Paula Jones) then finally he himself lied under oath (thats five acts of unethical and now criminal behavior). 

One of the reasons we hang at ZH is to seek truth, if we refuse to acknowledge it even when its staring us in the face, we should stop coming here.

[Ghordius]

+1 a thing about sex versus violence, where violence ceased to impress?

[logicalman]

I think what happens between my ears is a bit more important than what happens between my legs.

[OldPhart]

Hey, another fellow older guy.  I say/think the same thing.

But I still keep a bottle of viagra just in case.

[fukidontknow]

22 year old Monica

Hillary 

[philipat]

Bill's nose might come in useful for Hills with Huma??

[Rodders75]

Final act of Obumarsehole: pardon Hiltlery.

First act of Pres Trump: produce proof that Obongotwat should never have been president (birth cert, other multiple cover-ups and crimes), thus annulling Hitlery's pardon. 

Second act of Pres Trump: indict the bitch.

That is why Trump may get suicided before the GOP nomination. Although making it appear that he somehow got the blues and topped himself might not stick. So outright assassination by some preprogrammed disgruntled immigrant might be the chosen path.

Get some good bodyguards please Donald.