Ammon Bundy Admits Defeat, Calls On Remaining Oregon Occupiers To "Stand Down, Go Home"

Tyler Durden's picture

The story of Ammon Bundy and his not so merry band of Federal Wildlife Refuge occupiers is about to come to its end.

Following the overnight arrest of the Oregon militia leader and six of his associates by the FBI, as well as deadly shooting during a confrontation with federal authorities of Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, spokesperson for the militiamen occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, moments ago Portland's KATU reported that Ammon Bundy, through his attorney, asked the remaining armed occupiers at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge to stand down and go home.

Bundy and the others were taken to Portland and booked into the Multnomah County Jail and made their first appearance in federal court on felony charges.

It was here that Bundy decided to stand down.

"I'm asking the federal government to allow the people at the refuge to go home without being prosecuted," Bundy said through his attorney Mike Arnold, who stood outside court to read Bundy's statement. "To those remaining at the refuge, I love you. Let us take this fight from here. Please stand down. Please stand down. Go home and hug your families. This fight is ours for now in the courts. Please go home."

Earlier, the handful of remaining armed occupiers tried to convince more people to join them via a YouTube livestream and told any would-be occupiers that if the federal authorities "stop you from getting here, KILL THEM!"

The occupiers took over the refuge Jan. 2.

In addition to Bundy, those arrested were Ryan Bundy, Brian Cavalier, Shawna Cox and Ryan W. Payne. They were taken into custody during a traffic stop. Joseph Donald O'Shaughnessy and online talk-show radio host Peter Santilli were arrested in Burns. Jon Ritzheimer was arrested after surrendering to authorities in his home state of Arizona.

Top row from left are Ammon Bundy, Ryan Bundy, Brian Cavalier and Shawna Cox. Bottom row from left are Joseph Donald O'Shaughnessy, Ryan Payne, Jon Eric Ritzheimer and Peter Santilli. (Multnomah County Sheriff's Office/Maricopa County Sheriff's Office via AP)

KATU adds that a federal judge ordered the seven defendants in Portland to stay in federal custody. The judge ruled there's a risk they wouldn't show up in court, and those under arrest pose a danger to the community because the occupation at the wildlife refuge continues.

Defense attorneys argued that none of those under arrest have significant criminal records, but the judge agreed with prosecutors that all should remain in custody until a detention hearing scheduled for Friday.

None of the seven defendants entered any plea on the charge of impeding federal wildlife officers from doing their job, although the outcome of the legal process at this point is virtually assured: prison, of the Federal kind.

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khnum's picture

Is there a Hillary Clinton Russian Uranium futures EFT I can buy?

Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I'm not sure how this is a "defeat". Frankly looks more like a victory. Look at what he accomplished:

1) They stood up against, and drew attention to, an obvious injustice; what the Feds did to the Hammonds was indefensible, and now many more people know that.

2) They drew attention to BLM tyranny. How many of us, before this, really understood (or were even aware) of how bad the corruption has gotten regarding federal land "management" in the west?

3) They were NOT the first ones to use deadly force; the Feds were. The Feds have now permanently lost the moral high ground. The American Revolution worked because the Redcoats fired the first shots; the War Between the States failed because the Confederacy fired the first shots.

SMG's picture

This is a good stategic move on their part.   Live to fight another day.  They're going to need outside support after they get charged.

TeamDepends's picture

Fascism comes from the left. Always has, always will.

I need more asshats's picture

Time to jump on the Gulfstream and head home you little sexy motherfuckers!

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

So basically, in two years these people will have life sentences in federal prison, the clintons will be enjoying retirement on some luxury estate, and you pussies will still be bitching while you do nothing. Same shit, different year.

tarabel's picture



And you'll be home for Kwanzaa as well, Mr. G.

Or are you not one of the pussies?

Gaius Frakkin' Baltar's picture

Oh fuck off.

I know very well I'm a coward and have said so many times here.

I'm sure you figure you're a real hero though. So what happened to all your anti-Russian rhetoric? Did langley finally smarten up and add some substance to their online actors?

FEDbuster's picture

"ALERT! From Ammon's wife, Lisa: Ammon would not have called for the patriots to leave. We have lost a life but we are not backing down. He didn't spill his blood in vain! Hold your ground... Ranchers come and stand! Committee of Safety come and stand! Militia come and stand!"

Looks like not everyone in Bundy's family and followers are buying what Ammon's lawyer is trying to sell?  Could the intial plea deal offer go sideways?  Many people are on their way to Burns to provide backup to the remaining "occupiers".  When will dash cam and body cam video be released of LaVoy's fatal shooting? 

No folks, this one is just getting started.  Feds are going to learn that there are "No more free Wacos!"

rapetrain's picture

Yeah I came here for this comment. It's obvious it's a "plea deal." FBI told him to say that or get the book thrown at him. Read between the lines

Silky Johnson's picture

I wonder how many cockmeat sandwiches it took for him to change his tune?

eforce's picture

The problem is they told the militia who wanted to act as security to leave in the first place, now they want help...

Stainless Steel Rat's picture
Stainless Steel Rat (not verified) eforce Jan 28, 2016 12:54 AM

A crowd as inspiring and genuine as professional wrestling, but without the brainpower.

BobPaulson's picture

The problem with only reading your own press releases comes when you are surprised you don't have popular support.

cheka's picture

can we get back to hellary + fast furious + drug cartel arming + isis arming now?

jerry_theking_lawler's picture

Agreed...but if this so called 'leader' didn't have something already prepackaged that he could add to his annoucement so people would know not to believe it and to continue with the stand, then he is not a really good leader.

Tristan Ludlow's picture

Last I heard, all records have been sealed.  Don't expect to see the video any time soon.  Probaly won't see the vehicle as it originally looked.  Cover up times boys and girls.  If you trust the feds to have your best interests at heart, I am so sorry for you.  The legal system broke some time ago, so don't expect justice, the Hammonds did not get it. 

Chris Dakota's picture
Chris Dakota (not verified) Tristan Ludlow Jan 27, 2016 10:18 PM

The whole thing looks suspect, this looks like an attempt to devalue the patriot movement with all the stupid shit they did from day one.

Oregon protester challenges Chris Christy to Sumo Wrestling.,fl...

Bag o Dicks, who left before this and turned himself into police in Arizona

How do you leave the castle in the middle of a siege and drive 80 miles to talk at a Senior Center?

Set up.

Rat Trap.

Seems the target is Blaine Cooper who dared to speak truth to power.

he called for McCain on Syria to be arrested and tried for treason at a town hall.

Cooper is trapped in the refuge center now.


If you are at that refuge get the fuck out now, don't go there because they are going to start killing people inside. Federal officials told Federal workers not to come to work Wed. The FBI has told the media to leave and that they can not protect them. They don't want any pain in the ass cameras around and this place is in the middle of nowhere.

I now think the Bundy's are in on it. Cass Sunstein said they must infiltrate the truther movement. So the gov knows resistance is coming as they are taking the armed nation apart. They want to know who the Patriots are. Enter Cowboys, and when you have them all there make it look like they won.

Buddy Old "I'll tell you one thing I know about The Negro, slavery was good for them"

Yep, brand all the patriots as racists so that nobody joins them.

All leadership is safely in jail, only the real patriots remain at the refuge.

Two guys who were at Bundy Ranch said "Something just didn't feel right from the minute we got there.

they had the BLM guys in a kill zone, one shot and they would have been a slaughter, they had no way out. Imagine what

that would have looked like to the public. They had no way out, the seemed to have figured it out at the last

minute that they had been set up. Thank God nobody fired on them, there were 500 guns trained on them."

start at 6:00

One or both of them are in that refuge tonight.

Malhuer which means in Latin -tragedy

All of it was stinky and I bought into it too.

flyingcaveman's picture

If you don't know who the infiltrators are, then its probably you.

Chris Dakota's picture
Chris Dakota (not verified) flyingcaveman Jan 27, 2016 11:07 PM

Did you see the back how digging a trench, they are locking those guys in that place.

Holy hell happening now...............

Pray for those fools trapped in.

Leave now, call an attorney, don't say anything. Come out with hands up.

should have done that today.

Implied Violins's picture

Check out this article. A guy who visited the compound and left yesterday morning has a very interesting take:

He definitely smells a very large rat...

chunga's picture

That is a good artilcle and I was thinking the same thing. The McConnell character seems to be one of the rats, him and Ritzheimer at least. Every time something like this happens these rats are going to find their way into it and cloud the whole thing up.

Gazooks's picture

rings entirely and disturbingly true: ambushed by psychopathic assassin erand boys





TheObsoleteMan's picture

This was the same way they tried to take down Gordon Kuhl 33 years ago. Didn't work so well then. I see they have perfected their technique somewhat over the years.

swmnguy's picture

How unobservant can these people be?  Or do they think The State is only brutal to people who deserve it, like peace protesters, non-whites, etc.?  None of this shit is new to anybody who opposed the Vietnam War, or saw what happened to the Black Panthers.

Do these "Patriots" somehow think they're going to get special treatment?

It's very rare to find a group of so many people who are so dumb and self-deluded.  Therefore, I don't think they really are  that dumb or self-deluded.  So, the question is, are these guys a complete false-flag?  Or are only their leaders agents provocateurs, and they're egging on, scooping up, and when possible or necessary, killing the gullible and expendable?

That's what they've been doing with the fake "terror" plots they discover; it takes a trained professional informant/provocateur years sometimes to get a mentally deficient, alienated young loner to " say the magic words" justifying arrests and payouts to the informers.  Then of course nobody ever hears about the cases again, and there's no ultimate resolution, because to go through the process would reveal that the entire "plot" was a hoax perpetrated by professionals paid by law enforcement  in the first place.

Do these "Patriots" not know about this shit?  Where the hell have they been?  Have they lived their entire lives in fantasyland?  Lordy-Lou, they should at least talk to a ghetto teenager to learn how cops act.

Seriously, if you're ever in a pinch, the last god-damn person you want to have around you is one of these idiots, by the look of it.  They're going to get your ass killed.

Lord Koos's picture

It's all a liberal plot and it's Obama's fault too.

Thunder44's picture

It looks like this man was shot dead without a weapon in his hands as far as I could see.I have looked around and do not see anything to the contrary.

Mentaliusanything's picture

Yes this is the match that can start a wild fire and burn out the weeds choking pure growth.

Apparently that's against the Law.

Burn it down those who can recite your declaration of Independence from a King.... who (Amended by me-sorry... and do read down to the bottom, for I think I have it right)


When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance of these peoples; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former systems of government. The history of the present rule is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states. To prove this, let facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his assent to laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

He has forbidden his governors to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his assent should be obtained; and, when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them ntil the Golf game was over

He has refused to pass other laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them, and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly, for opposing, with manly firmness, his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large for their exercise; the state remaining, in the mean time, exposed to all the dangers of invasions from within.

He has endeavored to prevent the population of these states; for that purpose obstructing the laws for naturalization of foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migration hither, and raising the conditions of new appropriations of lands.

He has obstructed the administration of justice, by refusing his assent to laws for establishing judiciary powers.

He has made judges and senators dependent on his will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of new wars, and sent hither swarms of officers to harass Brown people and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, standing armies, who are bound by his legislatures.

He and those before him, has affected to render the military independent of, and superior to, the civil power.

He has combined with a coaltion to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our accepted Constitution and unacknowledged by our laws, giving his assent to their acts of pretended legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops in 138 countries of the World and 
among us;

For protecting them, by a mock trial in a foreign land from punishment for any murders which they should commit on the inhabitants of the rest of the World;

For Making a pretend "Free trade" with all parts of the world;

For imposing taxes on us without our ability to pay;

For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of trial by jury of his friends Hillary Cunton and John Corzine and soon Ben Bernanke

For transporting our boys beyond seas, to be killed for pretended usurpation and trumped up reasons

For abolishing the free system of American laws in all provinces, establishing therein an arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries, so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these colonies in which it exists;

For taking away our charters, abolishing our most valuable laws, and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments by instilling his pupperts;

For paying off our own legislatures, and declaring himselve invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever they reject.

He has abdicated government here, by declaring us under his protection and waging war against us, should we stand up against him.

He has plundered our souls and pretty much destroyed the lives of our people.

He is at this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the works of death into Europe and any other country silly enough to accept a sleeper army, desolation, and tyranny have  already begun with circumstances of cruelty and bombing scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy any civilized nation with duly elected leaders.

He has constrained our fellow-citizens, taken captive the American people, until they bear arms against their country, only to become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by their hands because they want freedom.

He has excited international insurrection among the World, and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of it, the merciless results that turn them into savages, whose known rule of warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes, and conditions.

In every stage of these oppressions we have dreamed for redress in the most humble terms; our repeated petitions have been answered only by repeated injury by Wall street. A pretend President, whose character is thus marked by every Golf ball he hits on the public purse which may define a tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have we been wanting in our attentions to our other friends in the World. We have warned them, from time to time, of attempts by our legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over them. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here in their own country. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity; and we have conjured them, by the ties of our common kindred, to disavow these usurpations which would inevitably interrupt all the Worlds connections and correspondence. But they too, have been deafened by MSN and the voice of injustice and of the separation of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity which denounces our separation, and hold them as we hold the Owners of this land, enemies in war, in peace after hanging.

Now or on your knees .... Bitches

tarabel's picture



How many times do I have to tell you guys that I'm NSA, not CIA?

I make no secret of my belief that those who adore Putin and imagine him to be the solution are worshippers of false and fiery gods.

And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

I know my time's coming, Gaius.

bunnyswanson's picture

Relatively speaking, Putin is the logical choice if for no other reason than he has identified the enemy and acted on eradicating it from his nation so the citizens could take part in a society which was not rigged against them.  In USA, over the last 15 years, there has been an eradication of sound and ethical business people from all arenas in business, entertainment, media, financial, political, education, medicine and they have been replaced by a league of highly motivated soldiers with bad intentions.  Media ownership allowed this silent coup to succeed.  Jewish grasp on the flow of information is the issue here and if a building should be overtaken, over some dispute only legislation could resolve, it should have been the CNN building, not an "occupation" (occupied territory...the crime derived from one word. Occupation.

occupation v. The process of moving an idealistic group into a previously well-maintained public square or park; also the movement of any unwanted group onto any desirable property or personal space.
............................ When is this occupation of North America by the Europeans going to end? I have some plans for lower Manhattan island that I'd like to get to. ..............................

Hey! Some random family is occupying our "slacker" table in the food court. by gnostic1 November 24, 2011

Tall Tom's picture

Lucifer is the enemy.


All World Leaders are psychopathic and Luceferian...including Putin, Obama, Netanyahu, Merkel, Abe, you name any one of them...


Christ shall prevail over the armies gathered at Har Meggido.


Of that I haven't a doubt.


You may deny God Almighty. You may choose to reject it. You may choose that you believe that it is a myth, a fairy tale. That may be your choice.


But you will not be able to deny the consequences of that denial...that choice.


It shall manifest. My bet is soon.


But it shall manifest...sooner...or my lifetime...or not.


But it shall manifest. The prophetic words will bear out fruit.


The stage has been set before your eyes. And there are none so blind than those who refuse to see.


So...OPEN YOUR EYES. Look at what is happening in the Middle East.


Stop being blind.

Tarzan's picture

It's a noble cause Tom,

but only the Spirit of God can open the eyes of the Spiritually blind, and only those who's eyes have been opened by God can understand the things of God.

"Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE; FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.'…

but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."…

shovelhead's picture

Just needs some snake shakers and some hymns and toss in some banjo music and you got a revival.


Tarzan's picture

Thanks for validating my point!

detached.amusement's picture

poor you, can only point to those very writings to validate your point.  only god can open the eyes of the spiritually blind, indeed! opens HIS OWN EYE(s) and it aint stereoscopic or directional, duuupe.



SHEEP get told "only by the grace of god can you do this"  (and the idiots believe it)


spiritual power is not gifted from heaven (except in that one instance where all we have are stories written 50 years after the fact, yah, reliability!)

Tarzan's picture

It's only by the grace of God that You and I are alive. 

The "Duuupe" is he who says there is no God, that the whole world just created itself, from nothing, that we created ourselves.

I'd rather depend on the power of God to open my eye's and give me wisdom then depend on the power of men and their convoluted ideas of a universe with no creator.  It is a lazy mind that says there's no God, who has faith in nothing but self.

The mystery of Power, Authority, is not who you are over, but who you are under!

So, you go boy, keep kicking against your creator with your bad self.  I'll admit my limitations and lean on God!

trulz4lulz's picture

Nope. Current western monotheism is a hodgpodge of all types of ancients religions thrown together by the roman empire to regain their quest for qorld domination. Those stories of salvation during the end times were made up by them to give you false hope that someone can stop the madness that your masters created. There will be no return of Jesus or the Mahdi or the flyong spaghetti monster. Why would some devine entity come down from the heacens to waste their time on a living being that cany even help himself? It. Wont. Happen. Its an invetion to keep you fixated on a future that will never happen. All the while distracted you while they rape your family. Nobody is comming to help us.

Tarzan's picture

The Romans didn't create the prophets, the commandments, nor the psalms.  They didn't create Abraham, Moses or Jesus either. They crucified Jesus because he was a threat to their power, a threat to both the Sanhedrin and Pilate's rule over Jerusalem.  The crowds that followed were growing too big and the Truth he spoke was cutting too deep.

You claim that the Romans created Christianity out of a bunch of ancient religions to deceive us, to keep us distracted watching for the coming of the Lord.  That it's a worldly scam advanced by those in power "to regain their quest for qorld domination", but the truth is, they were fighting with everything they had to stop the People from following Jesus.   

If your theory were true, as the People flocked to Christianity, Rome should have flourished, yet Christianity grew like a wild fire while the Roman empire died!

The problem with your theory is the distractions of this age are not leading us to believe in your alleged "false hope".  What those in power teach is, there's no God, no Savior, and no Hope, the opposite of your claims!

Tall Tom's picture

Yeah. I am a coward too.


(If you are going to do something, or, are doing something, then it is best not to advertise. I agree GF.)

Christophe2's picture

I think the better alternative, perhaps, is to focus on stuff that they can't stop, or even don't want to stop.

If you can understand how the elites are tortured souls (MK-ULTRA, etc.) caught up in a terrible machine, if you can think of what happened in their childhoods to turn them into what they are, then you see how the elites need help, more than anyone else.

The closer you are to the top of our satanic social pyramid, the more evil, painful and wretched life becomes (although from far away it will be made to look very glamorous).

So do I need to hide from the fact that I am trying to help these poor souls, as well as the rest?  I am not at all like Gaius, who even likes to imagine that everyone is a pussy sellout like himself, when in fact there ARE people like me trying really hard.

Now that everyone is connected, there are possibilities for huge changes to cascade through society.  Things need not just repeat themselves.  We just need to think well and much good can be created :)

I am not idle, but I am also not a dumbass who jumps into shady, incoherent plots to get myself pointlessly murdered by the police in broad daylight...

bunnyswanson's picture

We are all cowards.  That is why "strength in numbers" is a strategy.  Join 911 Truth movement.  It is rapidly growing and world wide and add to it the sheer volume and the pressure on "leaders" becomes intolerable, they become forced to mention it, and the guilty flee the interview or point fingers, make plea bargains, make confessions.  "Documenting" 911 was taking place but it was more than a collapse of buildings, it was the creation of a snuff film to deliver back to those who ordered the hits.

Twee Surgeon's picture

Pointless, Poigniant, WTF is that ? A Chique critique from the Boutique?

Fucking say something and stop being a clever cunt.

Spit it out, how do you really feel ?

A picture of the tits you desire. Pointless, Poignant, Never got them Tits, did you.

Four chan's picture

lol just interested in what everyone thought of this patriot event.

Thunder44's picture

This has been going on for awhile,So surely there is alot of video to corroborate everything.And a obvious ambush so someone should have some video.You Know like seen in the most common DUI stop.

Cistercian's picture

I find it sad.While I believe Bundy et al were ill advised to do what they did I find the BLM fucking over the Hammonds far more troubling.The bureaucrats are completely out of control.
I feel very sad that a man was killed...and even sadder that many support his killing.

So a poignant episode.Call the militia guys names all you like...and I think they were foolish here...but they are not the problem.The murderous police state is.

We are SCREWED if we belittle those who stand in the face of villainous tyranny.And make no mistake...we are completely subjugated when we support the villains over the just...even if we think they are misguided or naive.

Poor Bundy and friends...they are going to federal prison.But the scumbags that sent the Hammonds to prison get a free pass.


tarabel's picture



A nice summation of the problem.