Economist Predicts Rising Obamacare Costs Will Lead To Riots

Tyler Durden's picture

Now that it is widely accepted by everyone except the president in denial, that Obamacare is an epic debacle, one which boosts GDP because it is fundamentally a tax that counts toward healthcare expenditures yet takes away from other discretionary spending leading to a downtrend in overall US consumption, most also have an opinion on how it unwinds. However, few are as gloomy as economist Chris Butler of Butler, Lanz and Wagler, who discussed the rising cost of health insurance plans rising next year under the Affordable Care Act, and said he expects riots as the populace begins to expresses outrage upon learning many will be priced out of health care options.

Butler told Chris Stigall on Talk Radio 1210 WPHT to expect more public demonstrations of anger as prices move upward.

Cited by CBS Philadelphia, Butler said that “right now, I think you do have to say that A, it’s failing and that B, I think next year, you’re going to have a bunch of people that don’t get the subsidies that make the premiums a little bit more affordable that are just going to riot because it’s just too expensive for most people if you don’t qualify for subsidies.

Butler said he still objects to court rulings siding with the government requiring individuals to purchase insurance or pay a penalty. In that case, he will be even angrier to learn that according to Obamacare architect Jonathan Gruber, the "solution" to prevent millions of Americans opting to pay penalties instead of be enrolled, is to hike the penalty even more.

“You can go back to the Supreme Court decision on this. I’m still shocked that we are being told that our constitution says that it is allowable to force to people to buy something. When I hear people talk about forcing them, not only to buy something, but to make the penalty stiffer if they don’t, I just get queasy.”

Butler told WPHT there could be simple solutions to lower costs and cites buying plans across state lines as an example.

“Do you know what New Jersey is anticipating, their’s is considerably less, as I recall, than Pennsylvania, yet we are not allowed to cross state borders to buy insurance. There are a lot of states, by the way, that have big cities on borders that are actually going to have huge increases but they border on a state that is quite reasonable in its growth in premium costs. We talked about that while all of this was being discussed back in 2010, some of the quick fixes you could make that would have a difference to our healthcare system, that was one of them, allow people to buy insurance across state lines to help equalize some of this stuff.”

Well, according to many the US is on the verge of full-blown rioting and even civil war on any given day: might as well throw in one more catalyst that will unleash chaos. After all, as Krugman said in March, "The important point about war from macroeconomic point of view is that it was a very large fiscal stimulus"

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Croesus's picture

Tell that to that asshole Gruber, who ought to be burned alive, like a Salem witch.

balolalo's picture

how sad our country has gotten. 

profiting off of sick and dying people.  as long as it is for profit then expect forever quarterly increases to costs.

our descendants will be horrified and embarrassed. 

nmewn's picture

Exactly.

We told them this was going to happen while they were lying/debating it. We told them when they were cramming it down everyones throat that a majority didn't want it. We told them when they couldn't get a fucking website up and running. And we told them people were going to die and be monetarily damaged by it.

They-Didn't-Care. 

They-Did-It-Anyways.

Time to pay up suckas, with blood or treasure I really don't give a damn.

Chris Dakota's picture
Chris Dakota (not verified) nmewn Oct 29, 2016 6:52 PM

I won't riot, afraid to be hurt because I have no insurance, I pay the fine to IRS because I can't afford healthcare and I make a little too much money for Obamacare subsidy.

If you make (2 persons) more than $64,000 per year you get nothing.

Cost for silver plan for 2 is $24,000 per year but you first have to pay tax on that, so out of your personal income you pay $31,000 per year.

That leaves you with $33,000 for two people in SF bay area, where the freaking rent for a one bedroom is at least $2500 per month,

64K

-  19K tax

- healthcare 24K

- rent 30K

So you have a deficit of 9K per month

who the fuck are these people that made this crap up?

ebworthen's picture

Those who can't pay the subsidies won't riot.

They'll downsize, fix up the old Escalade, and move to a small town in Nebraska.

JamesBond's picture

The people in corgress who voted this into law are not governed by it.

 

Go figure.

 

 

jb

de3de8's picture

Stay healthy my friend

yippee kiyay's picture
yippee kiyay (not verified) de3de8 Oct 29, 2016 8:52 PM

Yeah, who can afford deadly pharmacology. http://wp.me/p4OZ4v-1zQ

lonnng's picture
lonnng (not verified) yippee kiyay Oct 29, 2016 8:54 PM

I know a loan shark.

philipat's picture

letsit, lonnng and Yippee kiyay are the same fuckhead. Talking to yourself is not good, you must remember to take your meds every day. And your tactic of trying to force maximum separation between your spam amd my response doesn't really work because your names(s) are too well known for people to respond.

philipat's picture

Hey yippee kiyay (Soon to be banned and will then use the next new names letsit and lonnng) , including previously:

mofio
santafe
Aristotle of Greece
Gargoyle
bleu
oops

lance-a-lot
Loftie
toro
.

You are a serial spammer and a serial pain in the ass. Might I politely suggest that you go fuck yourself? And get a life.

Your MO, always the same, is to post a provocative comment which SEEMS to be relevant but you have no interest in joining the discussion (and NEVER do) and your sole objective is to mislead readers into clicking on your falsified links to your BS site. That wastes everyones time is blatant SPAMMING.

Apologies to regular ZHers because I do understand these posts of mine can be irritating also, but I am donating my time to expose this shithead for the benefit of the ZH community. Please just skip over my easily recognisable posts when you see them.

BarkingCat's picture

It is that useless spammer again.I

hedgeless_horseman's picture

 

"Stay healthy my friend..."

As Obamacare inexorably destroys many aspects of the health insurance system in America,
if not the entire healthcare system, mrs_horseman and I have found it
to be beneficial and comforting to practice disintermediation with our
health, as often as is prudent.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-27/what-dirt-cheap-and-better-obam...

Arnold's picture

Bayonne, HH.

But this argument will be front and center in any debate in favor of the ACA.

Cost Shifting.

 

http://www.nationalmemo.com/report-27000-will-die-because-republican-sta...

Stuck on Zero's picture

Don't riot. Rescind your citizenship and then you'll get free medical care as an illegal alien.

RAT005's picture

You don't have to pay the fine.  One year I skipped the whole Do You Have Insurance section and I got a big nasty gram for that.  After that I answer I don't have insurance and don't pay the fine.  I get a letter that says I owe $thousands and use it to light the wood stove.  The end.

a Smudge by any other name's picture

Yeah  but what if you don't get the health care they have absolutely no intention of giving you?

Pumpkin's picture

FYI, When they take money from your named source, your employer, the income tax is an indirect tax.  If they try to force you to pay it, then it is an unapportioned direct tax and it is unconstitutional.  Read the 16th amendment very carefully.

 

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, FROM WHATEVER SOURCE DERIVED, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

 

Collect what from who?

benlomand's picture

And compete with Somali immigrants for shit jobs.

RaceToTheBottom's picture

The solution will be to reduce acceptable proceedures to a smaller list of proceedures for all the basic care.  Rich people will get additional insurance to get complete coverage.

This could have been decided on 5 to 10 years ago.  Medical rationing has been a known solution for a while.

heavenlykapua's picture

as an employer, i am the one required to pay most of the medical insurance, in fact we do cover all of it.

WillyGroper's picture

"who the fuck are these people that made this crap up?"

the first ones to be scheduled to visit their death panels whether they're sick or not.

Bay Area Guy's picture

What are the deductibles and copays on that policy Chris? I'm guessing something like $10k for the deductible and maybe a 15% to 20% copay. So, on a $100,000 hospital stay (which I had earlier this year that involved robotic kidney surgery and less than 24 hours in a hospital room), you'd be on the hook for $10,000 for the deductible and between $15,000 and $20,000 for the copay, meaning you're out another $25k.

By the way, single payer, the left's panacea, will likely be patterned after MediCare. Pay for Part B and D and then get 80% covered. Enroll in a Medicare supplement that can run up to another $1800 a year. My wife and I are learning these nasty little lessons because she transitions to Medicare early next year..

benlomand's picture

I ain't pain no stinkin hospital bill until I get my bailout.

JMT's picture

robotic kidney surgery? can an illness that requires such surgery just "happen" without any previous warning? what if one doesn't have the money or proper insurance? are you left to die or suffer because "profit" and "payment" is more important??

Bay Area Guy's picture

I had a routine physical in December of 2013 that disclosed a microscopic amount of blood in my urine.  My doc figured it was a kidney stone, and sent me for a CT scan to see where the stone was.  Surprise.  It was a 1.5cm lesion.  Long story short, I got referred to a urologist at Stanford and he recommended monitoring it since it was very small.  In April of this year, I had an ultrasound that showed the lesion had grown to 1.8cm, still small, but since it had grown, he recommended getting it removed.  He referred me to a surgeon and it got taken out.  It turned out to be a pretty rare form of kidney cancer.  Fortunately, it's a form that rarely recurs and rarely spreads.

In answer to your other two questions, if one doesn't hae the money or insurance, I'm sure you can still get medical care at the local county hospital.  It'll be shitty care, because county hospitals are government run and serve indigent populations as well as the illegal populations.  So, in my case, rather than getting a low-invasive form of surgery that took out a very small part of my kidney, it's likely I would have had the entire kidney removed in an open operation.  So, you aren't left to die, but you are likely made to suffer a hell of a lot more.

OverTheHedge's picture

How much is a plane-ticket to Europe? If you turn up in the ER in the UK they will give you all the treatment you could possibly want. If it is not life-threatening, and not urgent, you may have to wait the rest of your life, but that's another story.

Even Greece gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants in preference to uninsured Greeks - it would appear that the best healthcare is available in the country not of your birth / residence. Would Mexico or Canada be a good bet for US citizens?

Raging Debate's picture

JMT -  Hospitals legally cannot refuse you. They can attempt to collect it later like any other debt. 

BlackSun59's picture

My parents enrolled in Medicare Advantage plans that work a lot better than supplemental type plans. Premiums of $45-50 a month. When my dad needed aorta surgery a few years ago, his entire co-pay for $80k worth of doctors and hospitals for five days was just $250. Without MA his co-pay would have been around $15k. They're a godsend.

Bay Area Guy's picture

Thanks for that information.  We've been struggling to figure out if the advanage plans or the supplements were the way to go. 

nmewn's picture

"I pay the fine to IRS because I can't afford healthcare and I make a little too much money for Obamacare subsidy. If you make (2 persons) more than $64,000 per year you get nothing."

And therein lies the rub with all socialistic policies (whether fascist or communist in nature) their soft bigotry of lowering everyones expectations. You should know I take pride in people like you and yours Chris, proud that you refuse to lower yourself and your spouses income levels to meet their arbitrary threshold for a government subsidy, refusing to give in.

Sincerely, you are the man ;-)

k9-style's picture

People set on destroying the middle class. Taught by Alinsky, Cloward-Piven, etc.

RAT005's picture

Hey, you don't have to pay the penalty.  One year I didn't complete the whole Do You Have Medical Insurance section.  I got a big nasty gram about that.  The following years, I say I didn't have it and don't pay the penalty.  They send a letter that says I owe $thousands.  I use it to start the wood stove.  The End.

RogerMud's picture

a bunch of people can't get their prozac and vicodin refilled??...
riots are a likely outcome.

sun tzu's picture

Most of the obama supporters are either limosine liberals, on welfare, or work for the government, so it doesn't affect them.

nmewn's picture

And here is another reason why I say statist-socialists have a fucking mental disease...

...they blurt out everyone just needs to "pay their fair share" as they get busy exempting themselves, its something reflexive they do (like hacking up flem)...then...call everyone else who objects to being taxed even higher...greedy.

Its like, who in the hell is really being greedy here? 

They belong in a fucking psych ward.

auricle's picture

They will nationalize it long before that happens. 

greenskeeper carl's picture

The truly fucked up thing about these riots is that people won't be demanding the government get the fuck out of their healthcare altogether, they'll be burning down greedy insurance companies and demanding that the government give them their healthcare for 'free'. At least 45 % of the population will blame everyone and everything under the sun EXCEPT the fucking federal government.

Once these demands get loud enough, the government will 'give in to the will of the people' and adopt single payer, through a 'public option' and laugh their asses off at how hopelessly retarded all the plebs are. And they'll be right.

Automatic Choke's picture

right.   i blame global warming.

BigDawgz's picture

And anyone with half a brain and any ability to reason whatsoever knows that Obamacare was designed to do exactly this; designed to be a 'backdoor access' to the single-payer system they really wanted. They knew they'd never get the public to agree to a head-on approach to single-payer so they designed it to fail so the public would scream for a "fix" and that fix will be single-payer.

Cruel Aid's picture

how do you get a dn vote for the obvious answer, especially when gruber has stated it

Nexus789's picture

Could never envisage single-payer in the US as it would mean someone having the balls to end the role of the paracitic and useless private health insurance companies. These are the entities that are really fucking everyone over. The only outcome as no one will kill the paracites is collapse.

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

The lynchpin in single payer is not the health care consumer but the provider.  Some docs will go along w/single payer but a lot wont.  They'll simply vacate the profession putting further upward pressure on costs.  

So then it will be forced labor for the recalcitrant doctors, which wont work out too well for their patients.  Imagine Jonathan Gruber on the operating table of a doctor whose life Gruber has ruined w/his statist/collectivist nonsense.  "Mrs Gruber, it seems Jonathan's spleen ruptured during the operation (it happens sometimes) and we were unable to control the bleeding in time.  Im sorry, he's gone."  

yellowsub's picture

This isn't new, look at Big Pharma pushing their toxic vaccines for decades...  

AtATrESICI's picture

Halloween riots, healthcare riots, republican - democrat riots, FBI riots. Me thinks someone is promoting a riot narrative.

Last of the Middle Class's picture

You ever see someone die fron tetanus? What about Polio? Try to talk about what you know, as narrow as the subject may be.

PTR's picture

Have you ever been on the internet?  A vaccine's not a panacea, nor is it required in order to have a healthy body, plus it's loaded with shit that compromises the immune system. 

Used in Global depop, too, but I'm getting off my point. ;)  

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

"You ever see someone die fron tetanus? What about Polio? Try to talk about what you know, as narrow as the subject may be."

So your philosophy is if a little does a little then a lot must do a lot.  Let's stress the hell out of that old immune system by constantly bombarding it.  Meh, what's the worst that could happen?   Thank you, Doctor Needle Nazi.