Is A Real Civil War Possible?

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Doug Casey via,

The Trump victory is very good news for the US - relative to a win for Hillary, which would have been an unmitigated disaster. So I’m happy he won.

Will Trump winning mean a real change in direction for the US? Unlikely. Don’t mistake Trump for a libertarian. He has all kinds of stupid notions—torture as official policy, killing families of accused terrorists, and putting on import duties. He has no grasp of economics. He’s an authoritarian. His cabinet choices, so far, are all neocons and Deep State hangers-on. He’s likely to treat the US as if it were his 100% owned corporation.

On the bright side, he has real business experience—although of the kind that sees government as a partner. I doubt he’ll try, or be able if he does, to pull up any agencies by the roots. He’ll mainly be able to set the tone, as did Reagan. But, hey, something is better than nothing.


A brief word on US political parties. I’ve said for years that the Demopublicans and the Republicrats are just two wings of the same party. One says it’s for social freedom (which is a lie), but is actively antagonistic to economic freedom. The other says it’s for economic freedom (which is a lie), but is actively antagonistic to social freedom. Both are controlled by members of the Deep State.

I still think that’s an accurate description of reality. But, in truth, it’s a little unfair to the Republicans. The creatures who control the Republican Party are one thing - and they were massively repudiated by the victory of Trump. Good riddance. But the people who gravitate towards the GOP are something else. To them, the GOP mostly represents a cultural club they belong to.

Rank and file Republicans don’t have any cohesive philosophy binding them together. They’re just sympathetic to “traditional” values. They like the picture postcard version of America. The 1950’s style Father Knows Best family. The world of American Graffiti. A house in the suburbs, or a small, neat farm. Thanksgiving dinners with relatives. The exchange of Christmas cards. Going to church on Sunday. The husband having a job that allows him to support the wife and kids. Chevrolets and Fords. A relatively small, non-predatory government. A friendly neighborhood cop. A basically decent and stable society, which doesn’t tolerate crime, or overly outlandish behavior, where social norms are understood and observed.

You get the picture. It’s a cultural thing, not an ideological or political construct. Unfortunately, it’s no longer a reality. It’s more and more just an ideal, about as dated as a Norman Rockwell painting on the defunct Saturday Evening Post.

The Democrats are quite different in outlook. They see themselves as hip and sophisticated, and see traditional values as “square”. They’re for globalism, not American nationalism. Forget the clean-cut Mouseketeers; the fat and loathsome Lena Dunham is the new role model. Political correctness rules. White men are automatically despised. Black is beautiful. Women are better than men. The very idea of America is in disrepute, and held in contempt. Multiculturalism overrules home-grown values. Etc. Etc.

You’ll notice that there was very little discussion about policy in this election. It was almost all ad hominem attacks, mostly pushing emotional hot buttons, not intellectual points. It’s all about a culture clash. It’s a non-violent civil war. These two groups no longer have very much in common. And they don’t just disagree, they hate each other.

Is a real civil war possible? Unlikely. The electorate is too degraded to actually get off their couches to fight, apart from the fact few know how to use a gun anymore. Besides, 25% of the US is on antidepressants or other psychoactive drugs; they’re too passive to want radical change. Almost half the country is on some form of the dole; they fear having their doggy dishes taken away. More than half the country is obese; fat people tend to avoid street fights. The median age in the US is 38; old people don’t usually get in fights. Anyway, everybody lives on their electronic devices, not the real world.

You’ll notice that voting for Trump and Hillary broke along cultural lines. The Republicans won the rural areas (which are dropping in population); the Democrats won the cities (which are growing). The Reps are white (and becoming no more than a plurality); the Dems have most of the so-called “people of color”, who used to be called “colored people” (and are becoming a majority). The Reps did better with males; the Dems better with females, who tend to see the world in softer and gentler shades. The Reps are favored by native-born Americans; the Dems are favored by immigrants, who often have very different values. The Reps represent the diminishing middle-class; the Dems represent the growing underclass. The Reps did better with older people, who are on their way out; the Dems did better with younger people, indoctrinated by academia and the media, who are on their way up.

None of this looks good for the future of traditional American culture. In fact, Hillary won the popular vote. That means, demographics being what they are, the Republicans are in more trouble next time. With current immigration and birth patterns, the constituency of the Democrats should gain about 2% every four-year election cycle in the future. Even more important, as we leave the eye of the storm that started in 2007, and go into the trailing edge of the economic hurricane, the Trump administration will be blamed. There will, therefore, be a radical reaction away from what it’s believed to represent in 2020.

It used to be the Reps and the Dems differentiated mostly on ideological grounds. Now it’s much more on cultural grounds. Allow me to identify the elephant in the room, and spell out the real nature of the Democratic Party.

The Democratic party is a cesspool filled with leftist social engineers, academics, busy-body pundits, the “elite”, cultural Marxists, race baiters, racial “minorities” who see race as their main identity, radical feminists and LBGT types, entitled underachievers, statists, the soft-headed, the envy-driven, the stupid, professional losers, haters of free markets, and people who simply hate the idea of America. I can’t imagine anyone of good will, or even common decency, being a member of today's Democratic Party. It needs to be flushed. But it will only get stronger in the near future, for many reasons.

But it’s an honest party—they generally say what they believe, even if it’s repulsive to anyone who values things like liberty. Interestingly, there are no Dinos—unless they’re Stalinists or Maoists who think the others aren’t going far enough. The party has absolutely no redeeming values.

A real battle for the soul of the country is shaping up. But I fear it won’t be heroic, so much as sordid. The knaves versus the fools. The Dems are the evil party, but the Reps are just the stupid party.

Why? Trump and the Trumpers have no ideology except a vision of a vanished world. They’re understandably angry, but don’t know what to do about it. They have no real program, except to say the Dems have gone too far. No coherent philosophy, just a nebulous belief that the Democrats are wrong. They’re justifiably fed up with the Establishment that gave them non-entities like Dole, McCain, and Romney.

Why did Trump win? Two reasons.

First, “Cultural Americans” know that their culture is dying, and their standard of living is declining. They sensed—correctly—that this would be their “last hurrah”, their last real kick at the cat. Trump is likely the last white male president. Unless a rabid statist like Tim Kaine is elected in 2020, with promises of a new and more radical New Deal. Or ongoing wars tilt the odds towards a general, most of whom are still white males.


Second, don’t forget that Trump wasn’t the only protest candidate in the primaries. There was Bernie. His supporters know that Hillary and the Dem insiders stole it from him, and they’re still very unhappy. Many abstained from voting for Hillary because of the theft. A few probably voted for Trump out of spite. Or because they wanted to burn the house down. Nobody says this.

Perversely, they’ll get their wish. The Greater Depression will deepen under Trump, even if he makes the right moves. Which will play into the election of someone from the Democrat cesspool in 2020. So maybe the Trump victory isn’t such a good thing after all.

But let’s look at the bright side. All things considered, we’re in for some wonderful free (kind of) entertainment.

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JustPrintMoreDuh's picture

Whole lotta snowflakes in for a very rude awakening

Truther's picture

Soros the ASSHOLE: Loves fake flakes and the Demoncrats.

May he burn in hell.

Escrava Isaura's picture

Is A Real Civil War Possible?

The title, and it phrased like a question are both wrong.

The right way, first, should not be phrased as a question but as an answer, meaning undisputable statement. Here it is:

Civil Wars are Inevitable in a Finite Planet, Period!


Stainless Steel Rat's picture
Stainless Steel Rat (not verified) Escrava Isaura Nov 12, 2016 10:42 PM

This is where they got the idea for those fucking safety pins:


Notveryamused's picture

- Hillary only won the popular vote because Trump was competing for the electoral vote and focused his limited resources on the battleground states. He could have swayed millions more independents nationwide if he'd spread his resources more thinly but that would have been the incorrect strategy.
- The millenials of today will change their views as they get older and are confronted with the realities of life and pay greater attention to how the world around them works.
So provided he gets immigration under control things are looking fine. In fact the major beneficiaries of his policies may be the inner cities which will bring even more of the African American vote to that side.
- Tarrifs: If you have to subsidise the people that end up unemployed by off-shoring manufacturing via taxes as most Western countries do then Tarrifs are pretty much a wash but the result is higher employment and a smaller government than an income tax and handouts.

Manthong's picture

Is A Real Civil War Possible?


But the good news is that the real enemy is out on the streets right now and the cops and the military are on our side.

If these whacko social justice warriors act up too much, we could have a field day cleaning up the country.


We’ve got the guns and we got the numbers.
Gonna win yeah, we're taking over. 

-apologies to the late Jim Morrison

847328_3527's picture

I don't entirely agree with the article. Many immigrants I know, esp Asians and middle class Hispanics, were aghast at Hillary Clinton's platform of basically destroying American values. My friends said these American values are the very reason they fought to come to America.

The author might take note of the extremely active group of Asians in PA who worked tirelessly to get out voters to support Donald trump. They realized he was not perfect, but a heck of alot better then Hillary.

Same with many Muslims in Texas who came out to vote for Trump. They saw Clinton as very scary considering she and Obama have been killing Muslims for 8 years straight, 24/7. Many Muslims saw her as a Liar, which she is when you look at her testimony to Comey and her excuses for Benghazi and many other instances.

So we cannot assume that the death of the white male will result in a complete replacement of his values, values that drew immigrants to this Great Nation to begin with.


Escrava Isaura's picture

First honey, most foreigners (99.9%) have no clue about values, and its meaning, unless if “this” foreigner is political refugees, then, maybe, he/she can identify within that meaning.

Now, about Trump appealing to nonsupport like me. There’s some about Trump that I like a lot, such that he’s driven and relentless. But, there’s the other part of me that is disgusted by Trump’s narcissism, disagreeableness, grandiosity that become downrightly bullines and disrespectful towards others.


lonnng's picture

What Trump REALLY means for America.

beauticelli's picture
beauticelli (not verified) lonnng Nov 12, 2016 11:32 PM

They're scaring Trump to get in line with the agenda.

stizazz's picture

He should be scared. He won't fulfill none of his promises.

TeamDepends's picture

Dear Proglodytes,


TeamDepends's picture

BREAKING: TRUMP WINS POPULAR VOTE! It appears the final numbers are in and Donald wins popular vote by 500K. Repeat, Trump DID garner the support of the majority of Americans, which, considering the egregious amount of Dim vote fraud, means HE WON IN A LANDSLIDE. Of course it will take MSM a few days to mention this, so Tyler you should get on it. Oh, and can take your little petition and shove it up your ass- YOU LOST! Ahahahahahahahahah, poor li'l snowflakes.

TeamDepends's picture

Folks, this is yuuuuuge! Spread it far and wide, the meme that de Beast won the popular vote must be crushed right now.

The Saint's picture
The Saint (not verified) TeamDepends Nov 13, 2016 10:18 AM

The Democratic party is a cesspool filled with leftist social engineers, academics, busy-body pundits, the “elite”, cultural Marxists, race baiters, racial “minorities” who see race as their main identity, radical feminists and LBGT types, entitled underachievers, statists, the soft-headed, the envy-driven, the stupid, professional losers, haters of free markets, and people who simply hate the idea of America. I can’t imagine anyone of good will, or even common decency, being a member of today's Democratic Party. It needs to be flushed.

So sad that this is what America has to look forward to becoming.


Seems Legit's picture

It was obvious to me, from the support for Trump on social media and on the streets, that he would win by a landslide.

Plus, the dislike for both the Clintons was ubiquitous.

Hillary just tried to fix it so much (but not so much that would be noticeable to the watchful gaze of the suspicious public) that initially it didn't look this way.

WillyGroper's picture

if linguistics is any indicator, we're gonna need more popcorn.

J S Bach's picture

"He won't fulfill none of his promises."

What beautiful prose.

So, to translate... He will not fulfill none of his promises.  That must mean that he WILL fulfill some of them.  Thanks for the hopeful statement!

Sylvan's picture

+1000 for right logic. Stizazz did not said he's not an idiot.

philipat's picture

SPAM ALERT: Do not open the fake links. Now that Do Yippee Kiyay has been banned, lonnng has taken over the spamming duties whilst still talking to himself using several of his earlier names including: mofio, santafe, Aristotle of Greece, Gargoyle, bleu, oops, lance-a-lot, Loftie, toro, Yippee Kiyay, lonnng, letsit, Mano-A-Mano, techies-r-us, beauticelli, stizazz, Nekoti, SumTing Wong, Adullam, jcaz and others.

InTheLandOfTheBlind's picture

Why is jcaz still on that list?  Are you working with the spammer and including those you dislike on the list?

roddcarlson's picture

Am I right or wrong, did Doug Casey sell a bunch of worthless and overvalued ranches to fellow libertarians in Argentina? The guy is smart, and has a silky appearance of someone that I generally listen attentively to but don't pony up my dollars on the table in front.

I say he is smart because he might very well be right, this might be the white mans last hurray. But let's be honest there are two people, the defeatest that runs away when shit starts looking bad and the hero that stands firm against all odds. Most the time the hero gets blasted into an early grave, but once in a while he lives and changes the world in a revolutionary way.

First we have to realize that the white man isn't going to die away, he's going to retreat into his own numbers and be much more wary about further encroachments by the others after suffering a huge loss of his territory. Second, without the white man who was mostly the Christian, benovolence will quickly drop towards the other tribes. Expect third world hell holes in the outlier areas like NEVER before. I mean huge starvations in Mexico, Africa, etc and yes even American territories. Quite frankly the elites benovolence towards the others is only because they want their main rivals eliminated. Once that is acheived with receding of boundaries of the Christian white male, this group of people will proceed to the mass de-population they talk about in UN meetings.

Again they want subject slaves, but a lot fewer of them. They don't want white males with silly notions of rights and capitalism and such standing in their way. That is the objective with the flooding of the last refuges of European societies. But like I said at very worst case the remaining white man will simply retreat and regroup in more of his own neck of densely populated areas and multiculturalism and benovolence across ethnic and racial divides will be permanently dead until Jesus himself comes back.

Why this is most likely to turn out much different than say South Africa is that right now SA isn't the only white populated country left. In fact it's really the whites of United States that promoted de-segregation and affirmative action in South Africa that ultimately caused that group to fail under external political pressure. The difference in this case is the entire remnant of white people will become that much more coagulated in their fights to resist further conquest and they will clan their economic and military might together. Without charity from the white man the other groups will quickly deepen in poverty. This is where I suspect you'll see the white populations once again begin a ethnic and racial cleansing and pushing out and expansion of their territories. That's worst case BTW. Whites themselves will become poorer and probably less educated, the white population will most like rebound with a stiff birth rate as a result that contraceptives will even be harder to find in war torn regions of white rule. In other words I'm not projecting it will end easy Norman Rockwell even for the whites, but survive and flourish they will again and they'll have a grudge held for when they reverse their trend.

The best case is that white males start to revert the increase of invaders by a quick deportation and cutting of the welfare subsidies so that it gets progressively harder for them to survive here, so that the elections will again be tilted back toward the more native groups.

These things come and go in cycles. A certain philosophy of easy attitude results in decadence, a remanant of the lost restarts based on hard work and diligence, expansion becomes possible again after the other side loses focus.

Is it going to be Norman Rockwell America? No, but it's not going to be all lost forever either. I believe the white man has shown himself to be very clever and ingenious when called to task. We're not going anywhere without a tremendous fight and loss for the otherside. And charity is just about over, as we see that the onslaught and attitude of entitlement never stops.

As far as Doug Casey, I welcome him to his Argentinan villa of perfection where inflation runs rampant and crookery is anything but American. I certain he's made his millions bilking other like minded freedom populace, but all I'm saying is that he's a very clever and rich guy for a good reason and I'd watch my wallet around him.

Walter_Sobchak's picture

This article just goes to show that even the zero edge crowd is out of touch.  Half the kids I talk to under 25 are all redpill as fuck.  They know about (((the tribe))).  These kids don't watch tv, they troll on 4chan /pol/.  These kids have grown up with the special snowflaking and it's completely backfired because it doesn't resemble at all what they deal with day to day.  The alt-right won this election.  The overton window has been shifted.  Trump destroyed both the repubs and dems.  There are only two kinds of voters now: nationalists and globalists.

hedgeless_horseman's picture


Don’t mistake Trump for a libertarian.

You ain't just whisltlin' Dixie.

Escrava Isaura's picture


1-zero edge crowd is out of touch.

2-Half the kids I talk to under 25 are all redpill as fuck. They know about (((the tribe))).  

3-These kids don't watch tv, they troll on 4chan /pol/. These kids have grown up with the special snowflaking and it's completely backfired because it doesn't resemble at all what they deal with day to day.  

4-right won this election. The overton window has been shifted. Trump destroyed the repubs and dems.  

5-There are only two kinds of voters now: nationalists and globalists.


Walter, great short analyze. I broke it down in a Power Point presentation so “new” reader can follow point by point, me be one of them, then connect the dots.

1- Why did you say that ”zero edge crowd is out of touch”?

2- Funny that you said “under 25 know about the tribe” because few months back, talking to some of them, they used the word Illuminatis. Keep in mind that most of these 22/25 years old that I talked to were from Spanish (Central America) background. My impression was that they don’t know how the dots works; so I told them to focus how Central Banks works, and their goals. The rest will fall in place.

3- Not sure calling the young snowflaking is helpful or correct, because the preceding generation were no better, even that many here like to believe that. The internet impact is what opened their minds, not the behaviour of past generations. The past generations were as clue as one can be, and most still are.

4- Too soon to say that Trump destroyed either party or that the window have been shifted. Now, if Trump follows through with his promises, your statement might be proved right.

5-Again, if Trump follows through, the nationalists might have the upper hand but the global reserve (assault) currency will be in jeopardy. Interesting to watch how the US Central Bank (Fed) can defend the dollar while appeasing to the military, as it will need to be downsized.

Anyway, great, and interesting post you wrote.   

And that you got more up votes the down votes by being critical of the Hedgers.  



Omni Consumer Product's picture

The complete part of me is disgusted by your stupdity, vapid churlishness, and sweeping statements of "fact" that are actually only your opinion.

Oh yeah, and the other part me of is disgusted with your constant slurping of Noam "libertarian socialist" Chomsky.

U mad Trump won, bro?

SWRichmond's picture

The Democratic party is a cesspool filled with leftist social engineers, academics, busy-body pundits, the “elite”, cultural Marxists, race baiters, racial “minorities” who see race as their main identity, radical feminists and LBGT types, entitled underachievers, statists, the soft-headed, the envy-driven, the stupid, professional losers, haters of free markets, and people who simply hate the idea of America. I can’t imagine anyone of good will, or even common decency, being a member of today's Democratic Party. It needs to be flushed. But it will only get stronger in the near future, for many reasons.

One of the precepts of military policy is concentrating the enemy into a small geographic area where they are more easily destroyed.  One of the precepts of modern society is the delicacy of the complexity of our support systems.  Cities are prime examples of a society which is built on extreme complexity and which requires that same extreme complexity in order to function at all. 

The people of whom you speak have done the hard work for us: they have self-concentrated in easily disrupted societies.  I challenge anyone to disprove this assertion.

Stop feeding them.  Problem solved.

shovelhead's picture

Jammed in with the ferals when the food gets cut out.

Why am I smiling?

SWRichmond's picture

One thing I really don't want to see happen is an expensive effort to "reinvigorate the cities".  What that phrase means is "we are going to steal a shitload of money from the producers, through taxation, borrowing and inflation, and throw it at the people who hate the producers".  Fuck that.

What I think would be interesting would be the USAF putting together a Berlin Airlift for DC.

Argentumentum's picture

Absolutely correct! During the Great Depression, 3 Million died. How many will die during the coming depression? You FEW (Food, Energy, Water) resources. These are not readily available.. there are regions which will do better because of availablity of such resources. One example is Santa Catarina in Brazil.


Calmyourself's picture

Socialist dictionary lesson of the day.

Disrespectful- Not doing what I feel you should do for me because I want you too and I got a medal when I was ten for coming in 6th place.

EI, a fine example of the leftist, a thin layering of supposed intellectual superiority smeared over a giant blob of envy and unearned rightousness.

Bunghole's picture

Calling someone Honey isnt disrespctful?

Libs make the best hypocrites.

Go suck my Greek balls, you vapid cunt.

hobopants's picture

The article is way off base. If you examine what he says about the messy coalition of liberals, what binding ties exist there? What do they have in common? Nothing except for the fact that they want free shit. Once the free shit spigot is turned off (which is coming in a hurry now) the left will eat itself.

Parasites cannot exist without a host. The author assumes that the trends we see demographically and culturally are inevitable and irreversible. If his line of thinking were true, the Roman empire would still be ruler of the world. Empires fail, trends reverse, often violently and that is what we are witnessing now. The left is done, the country is done, even a child could see that. In four years time we will likely be looking at the balkanization of the united states into smaller autonomous regions.


Trogdor's picture

Trump’s narcissism, disagreeableness, grandiosity that become downrightly bullines and disrespectful towards others.

Yeah!  All things that the Liberals don't exhibit at ALL - no sireee - those Liberals are all "humble love, light, and tolerance"  /mega-sarc

Dancing Disraeli's picture

Did this guy listen to ANY of Trump's rally speeches.  Plenty of policy.

DeadFred's picture

LOL, the guy actually thinks there will be an election in 2020. 

lil dirtball's picture

Even funnier is that he purports Trump will be taking the oath on 1/20.

Just look at Trump's 100 day list ... it's all a farce. TPTB didn't tear down the American castle over the last 50 years just to have someone like Trump come back in and build it up again. NFW.

de3de8's picture

Should it happen,will be short lived

joeyman9's picture

Spoke to a Mexican Cleaning Lady and asked her who the Mexican Vote went to.  She said, Clinton was a NO because of her abortion position, but Trump was a no because of immigration.  So...............she said a lot of her friends just didn't vote.

Syrin's picture

So you need to tell people NOW that an economic collapse is coming that was caused by Bush and the Fuhrer.   WOuld you rather have someone who managed to lose $6 billion as a Secretary of State in 4 years at the helm or a guy who knows all about cutting costs, closing unneccessary parts of business, etc.?

Jack's Raging Bile Duct's picture

They weren't on your side a week ago asshole. Were they on your side at Bundy Ranch, or as agent provocateurs in Oregon? Were they on your side with all of the pipeline fiasco up north? Were they on your side in Fergusen when they aimed military rifles at peaceful protesters while looters burned businesses down across the street?

This place is out of its fucking mind. Cultists have poisoned the well.

lil dirtball's picture

>-apologies to the late Jim Morrison

'cept, he ain't dead (like Bill Hicks, but not Stephen Hawking - who really is dead).

Ironically, he's been the voice of the RINO's since the Regan administration. Still likes a cigar and opioids. Not surprising that he's fooled all those dumb white people for so long. They just want to believe ... something. Anything.

general ambivalent's picture

The only good thing about Trump winning is that it reveals what scumbag deep statists most ZHers are. The police state is now on your side? Haha, what a dumb cunt.

myne's picture

Yeah , America would have to provide training and weapons to the moderate insurgents for a civil war to have a chance of spiralling out of control. 

Soros will do in a pinch but he ain't got the training camps. 

Manthong's picture

“Hillary only won the popular vote because”… 

1.    Voter suppression tactics

2.    Dead voters

3.    Felon voters

4.    Illegal voters

5.    Rigged voting machines

6.    Collusion with most media organizations

7.    Overt voter fraud at the election judge and administration level


..many of the same techniques used to steal the Democrat primary from Bernie, but it was not enough to counter the groundswell of voter dissatisfaction with the establishment.

And she only won the popular vote by a miniscule number.


ImGumbydmmt's picture

+1000, 17 year in Chcago and i say this is TRUTH.

Watch the Verits Project videos, and The DNC confirmed this TRUTH.

2008 election and some precincts has 104% voter turnout and EVERYONE 100% voted for OBOZO.

2012 and I wrote in Ron Paul, and live in a neighborhood where his bumper stickers were everywhere. Checked my precints votes and how mny writen votes were tallied 0 Effing ZERO. they just threw them away.