Greece Is Not India? Hellenic Banks Plan "Tax On Cash Withdrawals" To Combat Black Economy

Tyler Durden's picture

Greek banks have proposed a series of measures to combat tax evasion, strengthen the electronic transactions and limit the use of cash in the economy, and as KeepTalkingGreece.com reports, one of the measures proposed is a special tax on cash withdrawals.

 Bankers reportedly stress that cash money can easily and largely be channeled in the black economy. Therefore, a tax on cash withdrawals will drastically reduce cash transactions and by extension the black economy.

The bankers suggest that also credit and debit cards as wells as new technologies enabling cash-less transactions even for small amounts  and mobile phones can be used for the purchase of a transport ticket or a newspaper at the kiosk.

The bankers proposal to the government also includes:

-Mandatory use of cards or other electronic payment networks for every transaction with professions where there is strong evidence of tax evasion or where cash is mainly used [ like bakeries, kiosks, street vendors and chestnut sellers?].

 

-Mandatory use of cards or electronic networks for transactions above a certain amount [this measure is already in effect].

 

–Reforming the tax system by introducing a revenue-expenditure system. Households or professionals will only be taxed on the amount of income that is has not been spent. In this way, households and professionals will have a strong incentive to seek receipts for any expenditure in order to increase their expenditure and reduce the tax amount they will have to pay.

 

-Obligation for all businesses and regardless of their size to pay electronically every salary and wage. (source: Kathimerini via Liberal.gr)

I cannot say who came with this revolutionary idea, some genius young academics or the Greek bankers themselves, those over 60 who have their secretaries or their kids doing their transactions for them using their own iphones and ipads.

I have no idea whether they have asked the country’s creditors to reform the tax system in a cash-less more-incentives Greek world, where households will be obliged to use revenue-expenditure books.

I absolutely do not understand how can one sleek and glossy group of bankers propose such measures and rule the economic system of a country where some 30% of population lives or is at risk of  poverty, the welfare system has collapsed and thousands of families live on the 20- or 50-euro banknote a relative or a friend secretly stick in their pockets so that they buy some food, medicine or pay a small bill.

Not to mention those over 60 with minimum knowledge of electronic devices and applications and those over 80 who cannot even use a mobile phone.

Tax cash withdraws will of course give “capital controls” a new dimension.

I suppose the whole proposal has been drafted by a group of some academic professionals stuck in a huge bubble- Prove me wrong!

Are we going now about to ban cash and become India?

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Perimetr's picture

This is what happens when the banksters rule.

 

HowdyDoody's picture

Throw the moneychangers out - some religious dude way back when.

 

Haus-Targaryen's picture

And yet the Greeks *still* do not rise up. 

No sympathy. 

Nothing will change for the better until people start going hungry.  Bring on the collapse and bring it on now. 

Ghordius's picture

which Greeks? against... whom, exactly?

you pray for a collapse, any collapse. and upraising, any uprising

in a cartoon Valley of Death, you might compose a "Delicious Food" anthem... for the voltures

meanwhile, Greece is a country. with people. one of their exports is tourism. one of their needs is... currency

note that the poorer someone is, the more he will suffer if there is no currency for him. we are witnessing that in India

no soup, pardon, no currency for you until you uprise against... whom exactly? the tourists? megabanks? the West? the Great Turk next door?

Harlequin001's picture

Since when is it the prerogative of banks to concern themselves about tax evasion?

Anyone would think that banks were not in the business of evading tax...

MANvsMACHINE's picture

How am I gonna be able to tip the bellhop?  Or give a few bucks to the kids collecting for a local charity?  Or the guys at the car wash?  Or for the guy who squeegies my windshield while waiting at a red light?  Or my weed guy?

Hope Copy's picture

Laundry detergent.  LoL, but this is already happening in Mexico.. Fake Tide.  If it is faked then there is a black market for even the real.. you will be taking a hit in the transaction at first.

Offthebeach's picture

Dollars. Pounds, Euros. Keep your...their fiat...out of their "banks"

So-called banking and gov tax scheme is desperate for chestnut roasters, street venders pittance.
And...bakers. Like Marie Antoinette's "Let them eat cake?"
THAT'S a sign things are going good.

hongdo's picture

Had to login to up vote you.  Brilliant deconstruction of entire banker position.

Killdo's picture

they are too turned against each other and lazy to rebel against anything

firefightergr's picture

Our government is placed in Brussels and Berlin.

No more a sovereign country.

We can not rise against the digits,the whole humanity is enslaved to money.

Burn the straw man's picture

Their Jewish owned government , media and banks , hang every last one of these parasites , look to those who pull the strings and the puppets attached

gatorengineer's picture

I think you got it backwards. The poorer you are the less you need currency..... You will barter.  The challenge will be for snowflakes who have no understanding of this basic tenant of civilization.

Cash is only needed by the middle class as a storage vessel of your labor.  Even the middle class will realize that they need to move their wealth into bartarable tangible assests.  Good examples are gold, silver, and lead.

Ghordius's picture

I am a producer. I can barter

the typical labourer can exchange his labour for... something. if this something get's devalued on the way to the shop, if it's done in a way that the labourer cannot save, he cannot join the ranks of the middle class

and this same poor labourer won't start to put anything in let's say gold, or even arms... if he has no cash, for a while

you can't start to save for a rainy day in the possible future of next year if you can't even start to save for tomorrow's lunch, first

gatorengineer's picture

My comment is relative to the middle class.  In actuality the poor likely have little to worry about as the Oligarchs will assure that they have just enough to keep them sated, bread and circuses, or in America, MMA, NFL, SNAP and the Khardashians.....  Its the middle class that needs to realize that there home equity, 401ks, and bank accounts are nothing more than electronic dust.

skepsis101's picture

I am curious.  Pray tell, dear Ghordius, what exactly is it again which you produce?  I do believe that many a comradely commenter here would like to know. A good answer might change a few opinions about your sometimes opaque remarks.

GubbermintWorker's picture

Good examples are gold, silver, and lead.... and lead delivery systems.

 

There, fixed it for you.

OverTheHedge's picture

 

"which Greeks? against... whom, exactly?"

The vast majority, against that tiny minority who believe they have the right to shear the sheep on a regular basis.

Most of my Greek chums are older, and have jobs (self-employed farmers, struggling like hell, as do almost all small farmers), so there is a tendency to not rock the boat, not cause a fuss, and just carry on regardless. The stoicism Ghordius mentioned on the other thread.

However, something seems to be changing, and I think we might live in "interesting times" quite soon. The government, in all its left-wing lunacy, does seem to be going full retard without actually noticing. It may be brought to their attention at some point. In the meantime, I sit and watch the weather destroy my olive crop. That's farming. Hey ho.

Ghordius's picture

+1. particularly for the "The government, in all its left-wing lunacy, does seem to be going full retard without actually noticing"

as we know, it's full of radical left-wingers. though they are socialists of the "champagne socialist" sort when they embrace classical liberal notions from the bankers that "every Greek ought to have a credit card"

though I'm confused. I though you were a BreXiteering Englishman. did you buy a Greek farm? are you living a few of the Freedoms of Movement of the EU?

katagorikal's picture

Damn - democracy and now stoicism, those Greeks seemed to have invented everything.

Next you'll tell me they invented banking .... no? was that really the Italians? seriously!?

billpayer's picture

The EU. Did you know Schultz is leaving the EU parliament and going for a position in German national politics? Any position....

Sth about rats and a sinking ship comes to mind

Ghordius's picture

yes, the EU used to be the political Siberia of the national political establishments

perhaps Nigel Farage is making an example of how you can grow in Exodus and then come back, in force?

Haus-Targaryen's picture

You're still sour the first of many decided to leave your precious union?

Ghordius's picture

lol. what is Schultz doing, again? leaving the EU politico crowd for the German politico crowd

hardly a leaving the union, whatever precious or the opposite you think it is. you are still sour because of that "union", and you still don't have a reasoning behind it, besides a "it's the status quo" something

Attitude_Check's picture

The Greeks need to leave the EZ and regain sovereign control of thier currency, otherwise these types of repressive actions will continue.  The decisions are made for the benefit of other EZ entities (e.g. banks) at the expense of Greece and Greek individual.

 

They had a chance, and thier newly elected government denied them what they had promised, and the people thought they voted for.  the present government must be replaced with someone who will actually implement what the people demand.  The Greeks need to re-learn what democracy actually means.

PontifexMaximus's picture

They never will, they are too lazy and too stupid, same as the italos and all the europeans, except the non paris french.

ConnectingTheDots's picture

Sounds great, but remember what happened to him and all the others who went after the bankers?

For US history, think Jackson, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, McFadden, Lindberg, Kennedy, and most recently the brutal police suppression of Occupy Wall St.

Unfortunately, most people still think the government is in charge, when they are really only the puppets. The puppeteers are the the bankers. Occupy understood this fact and that is why they went to Wall St, not Washington.

scottch's picture

"brutal police suppression of Occupy Wall St"  You mean when Soros stopped funding them?  OWS was yet another astroturf protest movement bought and paid for by the sociopaths among us.

gatorengineer's picture

This is what happens when the globalists get desperate.... Fixed it for ya....

Que closing scene from Thelma and Louise

Dirtnapper's picture

Even more incentive for people and businesses to stop using Greek banks is not going to help the banks to survive.   Or is that the plan?

Ghordius's picture

if "the plan" is an incentive for Greeks to keep their EUR notes (together with their dollars and gold) under their beds (and BitCoins on their sticks), then...

... it's "working"

the truth is, imho, more in the fact that both India and Greece have a huge "submerged economy", aka "black economy" (term not used in the US, apparently)

the plan of their central governments is to have all this "black money" come back to the surface. the Indian solution is... quite draconian

it is part of the "War on Cash", but beware, it's a multi-sided war where alliances are shifting, and "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

Dirtnapper's picture

Yep, and this will drive even more of the Greek economy into the black market.   The only true way of being able to tax the black market is to switch from the Marxist progressive income tax to consumption (aka FAIR tax) tax with monthly payments to everyone in order to make sure the poor (or fixed income) are shielded from a consumption tax.

 

FIAT CON's picture

I agree, but the major problem with this system is "How many .gov employees (tax collectors=Leaches of society) will be put out of a job! This would down size gov and anyone with this idea of downsizing .gov in any way will not get re-elected.

garcam123's picture

In my view the Greek People need to hang their government complete.......death to their political class en masse.

Thye Indian people also need to hang their political class complete and line the roads with their bodies.....this shit needs to be stopped!

Europeans need to massacre all the muslim males in Europe and hang their politicians as well, starting with that sow Merkle!

KJWqonfo7's picture

The Greeks have created and will continue to leverage a black economy until they can no longer.  It's culturally acceptable behavior that perpetuates itself.  The typical why should I pay taxes, the rich don't pay taxes train of thought.

They are corrupt to the core and it will not change until they are once again under a German boot.

My advice if you're one of my fellow countrymen is to dump those english lessons and dive into that German for Dummys book....

You brought that shit on yourself.

hongdo's picture

What's wrong with a black market?  The state thinks it owns everything.  It should keep out of most transactions and be funded at a level for the services provided.  Seems now the state wants to be paid for anything it can think of.  I have been there where poltroons sit about dreaming how to force more regulations and more taxes to fund their little empires.  Fuck em.

GunnerySgtHartman's picture

And the war on cash intensifies!

Omen IV's picture

as one compares the rule changes in India, Greece, EU, US, Argentina and elsewhere - the frequency is increasing of transaction rule changes keep growing and the direction is more limited individual control - which for me means withdraw from participation.

The volatility coming from everywhere and then affecting those outside the country - like a tourist or investor - doesnt make for better economics

I would be very concerned about using Credit Cards in a country where the people are desperate - sure you can protest - but all these things take time and focus. If you buy the local currency in small amounts you at least have peace of mind about a specific transaction when you use the currency and walk away

For long term investment i would think the discounts a person wants must be substantial versus present market value of any local asset  to part with the liquidity value of cash in a hard currency that is freely traded. says deflation everywhere.

This all looks like a much bigger mess is pending for multiple countries trying to force one into their controlled digital currency. i would assume if its in the bank it will be taken in one form or another via cramdowns- devaluation / limits of use / confiscation / conversion.

it all points to gold

 

 

 

hongdo's picture

"I would be very concerned about using Credit Cards in a country..."

The bank changes my credit card every 6 months due to hacking.  Chase is the best at fraud protection I have found.

Yeah, I guess most have never been in a situation where your AAA cash card was turned off by the US Treasury Department due to a squable with the country over macro global currancy movement.  Even the bank issuing the card had to research the reason why my card did not work. 

Trust in a medium of wealth preservation dependent of the state and you will undoubtedly be surprised at some time.

I have had $100 bills declined in European banks.  So cash is not even safe.

Hope Copy's picture

:LoL, Chase d protection fraud.. Chase is all about delaying payments because they need the money.  They hold any type of check more than twice as long as any other bank, because they need the money.  Citi Group is a disaster waiting to happen.

Captain Chlamydia's picture

Time for a bank run. 

silverer's picture

I imagine in the very near future, a linear tax rate. That would be based on the length of the line at the teller's window. Rates of up to 100% would keep the banks solvent, eh?

silverer's picture

Keep laughing at gold, you dumb ass paper lovers. Lookie what the bank just did to those people's money! Nothing more than common robbery. Keep trusting banks, folks. More to come if you are dumb.

RockySpears's picture

 

  They could ban any use of Gold just as easily, nothing is too desperate for them to try,

 

RS

FIAT CON's picture

Well they have banned drugs since the 30's and how's that working out for them?