Harvard Professor Says He's Rallied Nearly Enough GOP Electors To Block Trump

Tyler Durden's picture

Harvard University law professor Larry Lessig, who has been providing free legal counsel to "faithless electors" from the GOP considering voting against Trump, claims that 20 GOP Electoral College voters have contacted him and are seriously considering flipping their vote.  Of course, with 306 Electoral College votes assigned to Trump, it would only take 37 faithless GOP electors to block his presidency and push the election to Congress to decide.  Per Politico:

Lessig’s anti-Trump group, “Electors Trust,” has been offering pro bono legal counsel to Republican presidential electors considering ditching Trump and has been acting as a clearinghouse for electors to privately communicate their intentions.

 

“Obviously, whether an elector ultimately votes his or her conscience will depend in part upon whether there are enough doing the same. We now believe there are more than half the number needed to change the result seriously considering making that vote,” Lessig said.

Meanwhile, the list of Democrat electors demanding an intelligence briefing on Russian interference in the election prior to casting their vote continues to grow.  As of last night we noted that 40 democrats had signed the petition and, as of this morning, the list has grown to 55.  Not surprisingly, the list is loaded with disaffected Hillary supporters from Democratic strongholds like California and Virginia. 

Original 10:

  • Christine Pelosi (CA)
  • Micheal Baca (CO)
  • Anita Bonds (DC)
  • Courtney Watson (MD)
  • Dudley Dudley (NH)
  • Bev Hollingworth (NH)
  • Terie Norelli (NH)
  • Carol Shea-Porter (NH)
  • Clay Pell (RI)
  • Chris Suprun (TX)

Newly Added Electors:

  • Sandra Aduna (CA)
  • Edward Buck (CA)
  • Donna Ireland (CA)
  • Vinz Koller (CA)
  • Katherine Lyon (CA)
  • John P. MacMurray (CA)
  • Stephen J. Natoli (CA)
  • Andres Ramos (CA)
  • Shawn Terris (CA)
  • Gail Teton-Landis (CA)
  • Olivia Reyes-Becerra (CA)
  • David Scott Warmuth (CA)
  • Shirley Weber (CA)
  • Denise Wells (CA)
  • Gregory H. Willenborg (CA)
  • Laurence Zakson (CA)
  • Jerad Sutton (CO)
  • Robert Nemenich (CO)
  • William Marovitz (IL)
  • Nancy Shepherdson (IL)
  • Nazda Alam (MA)
  • Dori Dean (MA)
  • Jason Palitsch (MA)
  • Parwez Wahid (MA)
  • Paul G. Yorkis (MA)
  • Lillian Holmes (MD)
  • Lesley Israel (MD)
  • Robert Leonard (MD)
  • Salome T. Peters (MD)
  • Noyola Archibeque (NM)
  • Melissa Mark-Viverito (NY)
  • Stuart Appelbaum (NY)
  • Hazel Ingram (NY)
  • Stephanie Miner (NY)
  • Melissa Sklarz (NY)
  • Andrea Stewart-Cousins (NY)
  • Timothy Norman Powers Rowan (OR)
  • Brad Martin (OR)
  • Sam H.W. Sappington (OR)
  • Beth Caldwell (WA)
  • Bret Chiafalo (WA)
  • Deb Fitzgerald (VA)
  • Terry C. Frye (VA)
  • Jeanette Sarver (VA)
  • Martha Allen (VT)

Of course, as we concluded yesterday, this effort to block Trump will almost certainly be a complete failure.  That said, the point isn't really to block Trump, but rather to do as much as possible to undermine the legitimacy of his presidency as possible before he takes office. 

* * *

For those who missed it, below is our full update from last night:

Update: Forty members (up from 29 earlier) of the Electoral College on Tuesday signed a letter demanding an intelligence briefing on Russian interference in the election ahead of their Dec. 19 vote.

As The Hill reports, ten electors originally signed the letter when it was published Monday, and 30 more have since added their names.

Original 10:

  • Christine Pelosi (CA)
  • Micheal Baca (CO)
  • Anita Bonds (DC)
  • Courtney Watson (MD)
  • Dudley Dudley (NH)
  • Bev Hollingworth (NH)
  • Terie Norelli (NH)
  • Carol Shea-Porter (NH)
  • Clay Pell (RI)
  • Chris Suprun (TX)

Newly Added Electors:

  • Edward Buck (CA)
  • Donna Ireland (CA)
  • Vinz Koller (CA)
  • Katherine Lyon (CA)
  • John P. MacMurray (CA)
  • Andres Ramos (CA)
  • Gail Teton-Landis (CA)
  • Olivia Reyes-Becerra (CA)
  • David Scott Warmuth (CA)
  • Gregory H. Willenborg (CA)
  • Jerad Sutton (CO)
  • Robert Nemenich (CO)
  • Nancy Shepherdson (IL)
  • Dori Dean (MA)
  • Jason Palitsch (MA)
  • Parwez Wahid (MA)
  • Paul G. Yorkis (MA)
  • Robert Leonard (MD)
  • Salome T. Peters (MD)
  • Melissa Mark-Viverito (NY)
  • Stuart Appelbaum (NY)
  • Stephanie Miner (NY)
  • Melissa Sklarz (NY)
  • Andrea Stewart-Cousins (NY)
  • Sam H.W. Sappington (OR)
  • Beth Caldwell (WA)
  • Bret Chiafalo (WA)
  • Deb Fitzgerald (VA)
  • Terry C. Frye (VA)
  • Jeanette Sarver (VA)

 

The open letter — led by Christine Pelosi, the daughter of House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) — urged Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to give a detailed briefing on President-elect Donald Trump's ties to Russia.

 

“We further require a briefing on all investigative findings, as these matters directly impact the core factors in our deliberations of whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States,” the letter read.

 

The Clinton campaign applauded the effort Monday, saying it had repeatedly warned about Russian interference aimed at swaying the election in Trump’s favor.

However, while 40 electors would be enough to turn the election in Hillary Clinton's favor, the so-called "Hamilton Electors" are almost uniformly Democratic voters anyway and so with Ashley-Madison fan Chris Suprun the only Trump turncoat, for now the 'soft coup' remains a long shot.

“I am not looking to be satisfied with just the vote on Dec. 19 or 20, but on January of 2030, when Mr. Trump has either served no time, one term or two terms,” Suprun told The Hill. “History is going to judge my actions on whether he turned out to be Ronald Reagan, Herbert Hoover or Richard Nixon.”

But, as The Hill adds, Republican electors are coming under intense pressure to change their votes:

Bob Muller, a GOP county chairman in North Carolina and a Trump elector, said he’s gotten correspondence from “everywhere from Maine to California” asking him to vote differently.

 

“I just ignore them,” Muller said.

 

So far, only a few Electoral College voters have publicly declared that they will not back the candidates that their states supported — including just one of the 37 Trump voters that the self-styled Hamilton Electors, a group of mostly Democrats, need to make any noise on Monday.

 

And even if the rogue electors achieve their aims, they would only succeed in sending the election to a Republican-majority House, which would almost certainly certify Trump’s victory.

 

Virtually all Republican electors reached by The Hill said they will vote enthusiastically for Trump.

 

“I’m voting how the people of Florida have told me to vote,” said Brian Ballard, a Florida elector who raised money for Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio during the GOP primary. “I don’t know anyone who isn’t. I appreciate people using First Amendment rights to reach out and try to convince me otherwise, but I’m obligated to support Trump because he won Florida.

 

“Also, I love the guy and want him to be president.”

 

Faithless electors are rare but not unheard of in American history.

At this point, the effort appears to be more about undermining Trump, complicating his ability to govern and following personal convictions — and less about actually winning the Electoral College for another candidate.

*  *  *

As we detailed earlier, Donald Trump could have the election legally stolen from him on either December 19th when the Electoral College casts their votes or on January 6th when a joint session of Congress gathers to count those votes. As The Economic Collapse blog's Michael Snyder notes, the establishment is in full-blown panic mode at this point, and they seem to have settled on "Russian interference in the election" as the angle that they will use to unleash this 'soft coup' as today, the Hill reports more Democratic electors are joining the call for an intelligence briefing before they cast their votes for president on Monday.

Twenty-nine electors now are pressuring Director of National Intelligence James Clapper to disclose more information about the CIA’s conclusion that Russian interference helped sway the election in President-elect Donald Trump’s favor.

 

On Monday, 10 electors — spearheaded by Christine Pelosi, the daughter of House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) — wrote an open letter to Clapper, demanding more information ahead of next week's vote.

 

“The Electors require to know from the intelligence community whether there are ongoing investigations into ties between Donald Trump, his campaign or associates, and Russian government interference in the election, the scope of those investigations, how far those investigations may have reached, and who was involved in those investigations,” the letter reads.

 

“We further require a briefing on all investigative findings, as these matters directly impact the core factors in our deliberations of whether Mr. Trump is fit to serve as President of the United States.”

 

Twenty-eight Democrats and one Republican have now signed the letter.

On Monday, the Clinton campaign voiced support for the effort.

“Each day that month, our campaign decried the interference of Russia in our campaign and its evident goal of hurting our campaign to aid Donald Trump,” said John Podesta, Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, in a statement.

 

“Despite our protestations, this matter did not receive the attention it deserved by the media in the campaign. We now know that the CIA has determined Russia's interference in our elections was for the purpose of electing Donald Trump. This should distress every American.”

But ultimately, as The Economic Collapse blog's Michael Snyder warns, this is not about Russian interference in our election.

Rather, this is all about the elite doing whatever is necessary to stop Donald Trump.  The elite are going to fight against him every step of the way, and they are never, ever going to give up.  This is a point that I made during an interview with Alex Jones on Monday

The next key date that we need to be watching for is December 19th.

On Monday, members of the Electoral College will gather in Washington D.C. and in all 50 state capitols to cast their votes.  We know that at least one Republican elector that is supposed to be pledged to Trump will not be voting for him, and that elector claims that there are others that also will not be voting for Trump.

If 37 Republican electors can be persuaded to cast their votes for someone other than Trump, that would throw the election into the House of Representatives, and it is unclear what the House would do in that scenario.

If Trump is not stopped at the Electoral College, there is also the possibility that he could be derailed when a joint session of Congress gathers to count the Electoral votes on January 6th.

As I discussed yesterday, all it takes to force a vote on the validity of Electoral College votes is an objection in writing that is signed by at least one member of the House and one member of the Senate.  As the official House.gov website explains, if both the House and the Senate vote to approve the objection, the votes covered by the objection are not counted…

Since 1887, 3 U.S.C. 15 sets the method for objections to electoral votes. During the Joint Session, Members of Congress may object to individual electoral votes or to state returns as a whole. An objection must be declared in writing and signed by at least one Representative and one Senator. In the case of an objection, the Joint Session recesses and each chamber considers the objection separately in a session which cannot last more than two hours with each Member speaking for no more than five minutes. After each house votes on whether or not to accept the objection, the Joint Session reconvenes and both chambers disclose their decisions. If they agree to the objection, the votes in question are not counted. If either chamber does not agree with the objection, the votes are counted.

In both the Senate and the House, there are anti-Trump Republicans that would absolutely cherish the opportunity to deny him the presidency.

I don’t know if it will happen, but this Russian interference issue is the kind of thing that could be used to justify taking this kind of action.

Of course if the election was stolen from Donald Trump that would likely throw the entire nation into a state of chaos, but I think that at this point the elite would be willing to risk just about anything to keep Donald Trump out of the White House.

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Haus-Targaryen's picture

This guy is so full of shit.  

It'll never happen. 

FreeShitter's picture

It doesnt matter really.....Algos runs the USSA

J S Bach's picture

Even if the claims of "Russian Interference In Our Sacred Elections" were true (and I am convinced they are not), try this analogy on for size...

Picture a manor house on an estate of many acres.  In front of this house is a sign reading, "No Trespassing!"

A pedestrian walking by the property espies a shady character crawling through one of the windows with an empty bag.  A few minutes later, the observer steps past the sign to get a closer look only to discover the thief escaping back out the window... full bag in hand... and smoke billowing from the mansion.  He begins to call out aloud what he has witnessed and soon the police arrive and pounce on HIM.  They begin interrogations and arrest him for trespassing.  In the meantime, the house has burned down after the valuables within were stolen, but this means nothing to the reporters on the scene.  All they care about is the guy who broke the law of trespassing on the property.

This is precisely what we have with the aforementioned scenario.  Allegedly, the Russians (or whoever) exposed - via hacked emails - verifiable treasonous activities of Hillary Clinton while Secretary Of State.  So, who has committed the greater offense... the traitor selling state secrets... or the one who revealed her iniquity to the public?  According to our "real news" mainstream media, it is the latter.

Remember this little parable - and the truly heinous crimes committed - every time you read about this topic.

Squid-puppets a-go-go's picture

the Paedophocracy grows

All your children are belong to me!

Jim Sampson's picture

I like how we get the traitor lists sent to us.

bamawatson's picture

Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp on Wednesday asked President-elect Donald Trump to investigate the Department of Homeland Security's apparent attempt to hack his office's computer system

In a letter to Trump, Kemp asked that the president-elect to act once he is sworn in to office in January. 

Kemp said he is not satisfied with the response from current DHS Secretary Jeh Johnson. (((another of homobama's muslim plants))

"Since contacting DHS with these concerns, we have collaborated with the agency and provided extensive, additional information," Kemp wrote. "Last night I received a letter from Secretary Johnson which lacked any specific information as to the attacks' intent or origin despite the fact that many questions remain unanswered."

Kemp's office detected what he called a "large attack on our system" in November. His staff was able to trace the alleged attacker back to the Department of Homeland Security. 

DHS has denied it tried to break through the state's computer firewall. An agency spokesman did not immediately return requests for comment Wednesday. 

petar's picture

The whole idea of Russia hacking the election is to save Hillary career, and to push Trump away from making strong relationship with Russia. 

jcaz's picture

Really, Harvard?  Larry appears to have a lot of free time on his hands-  what are you paying him for, exactly?

Payne's picture

Those electors are all from States except for a couple that Hillary won ?  What am I missing ?

BennyBoy's picture

 

Start recruiting DEM electors that hate what the DNC did to Bernie.

And the fraud Podesta et al are.

MagicHandPuppet's picture

This begs the question: Is Harvard Professor Larry Lessig part of the Clinton/Podesta pizzagate pedo ring?  Sounds like it to me.

Volaille de Bresse's picture

"Does he like Portugal?"

 

This one's as subtle as it's brilliant! Well done!

SafelyGraze's picture

Lessig gets his own personal 20 electoral college votes!

awesome!

that's more than most states get!

that's democracy!

 

AVmaster's picture

This guy explains how this prof is high off of bleach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t1cc5MfUzo

Tarzan's picture

If they succeeded in this coup it would be hell to pay.  The silent majority would be silent no more. 

It would be all out war, and the front lawns of the Elite would be the battle fields. 

They know not what they do....

uno's picture

yes, so many now see the motivation of saving themselves.  This is another CIA psyop, just one after another.

artless's picture

@MagicHandPuppet

I know Mr. Lessig. He married my old girlfriend. He is not part of the Clinton/Podesta gang in any shape or form. INdeed he actually filed to run for the Presidency this cycle I believe in an attempt to stop Hillary.

No Larry and his beautiful wife Bettina are unfortunately just way, way, way left progressives, communists, socialists, whatever. While I am suprised that Lessig would get involved in this way, he is simply misguided in his attempt to try to sway the election.

I have not spoken with either of them in some time so perhaps he has gone off the deep end like so many otherwise rational individuals have since November 8. Hard to say but he and his wife are otherwise decent people.

For the record Lessig  started Creative Commons with the late Aaron Schwartz. He has a tenous connection to some libertarian thought and against the deep state. But like many highly intelligent people he can be, I think easily played and therefore end up what we call a "useful idiot".

My pipe dream is to one day convert both Larry and Bettina to The Light (anarcho-capitalism). Some folks just have a longer journey that others.

SixIsNinE's picture

thank you for your input - please continue to post we appreciate it

hxc's picture

Ancap 4 lyfe my nig.

Tall Tom's picture

 

 

 

They must lose all faith and confidence in the state in order to become anarcho-capitalists. 

 

The outcome of this debacle will add numbers to the people who embrace our political philosophy, especially when they oust Trump  

 

In either fashion we will prevail.

 

Keep demonstrating the failures of the state and how the state acts as a parasite upon the productive. You will win the battle against their cognitive dissonance.

 

Be slow to take offense at their misdirected anger toward you as it is natural as you are upsetting their "safe space'.

 

The truth will set them free. Best wishes.

KingFiat's picture

I have a lot of respect for Larry Lessig, as I think he has done a lot of good as a constitutional lawyer, and with his work on Creative Commons.

But I worry if his work here could cause a major internal conflict in the US. I also have to acknowledge that everybody - including the electors - have a right to legal representation and advice, and that the current US election system makes it possible to change the election result long after the popular vote.

The best that could come from his current work would IMHO be if the outdated system with the electoral college would be replaced with direct election of the president. This would make the votes of all US citizens count equally, and avoid the perverted fight for a few swing states.

This makes me sound like I support Clinton, which is not the case. I would prefer Trump as the next US president, But I am not a US citizen, so I do not want to interfere except for voicing my best advice. The people of the US - and no others - should decide who is the next leader of the US.

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

"The best that could come from his current work would IMHO be if the outdated system with the electoral college would be replaced with direct election of the president."

Yes, because that worked so well w/the direct election of Senators./s  There is absolutely nothing sacred about majority (or mob) rule, especially when it's unbridled.  It's just a decision rule.  One among many. 

Someone on ZH made the analogy to the World Series, which is quite apt and bears repeating.  You win baseball games by scoring more runs than your opponent.  You win the World Series by winning more games out of 7 than your opponent.  It is mathematically possible for a World Series loser to have scored more total runs in 3 games than the winner did in 4 games.   It could be decided differently, such as the WOrld Series champ is the team who scores the most total runs in 7 games.  But that's not the rule as baseball is currently contested. 

Same deal w/elections.  Even IF Hitlery won more popular votes, that's not the way the presidential elections are currently contested.  To argue after the fact such outcomes are unfair, or disenfranchising, or whatever is simply evidence of being sore losers....perfectly willing to accept the results if they went their way (as they thought it was going to do--and hectoring DJT to commit beforehand to accepting the results), and then behaving like petulant, spoiled children when they didn't secure the outcome they'd hoped/rigged for. 

Perimetr's picture

Larry will be hearing from the IRS sometime after Jan 20

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

It's not really that surprising that the Platonic Priests of Harvard want to steer national outcomes in their preferred direction.  What's surprising is how few are being vocal about it, Lessig notwithstanding. 

No_More's picture

Lessig is a decent copyright law professor. He was a never going to get anywhere presidential candidate (though I think his one issue of reforming the endemically corrupt campaign finance laws was a worthy cause though it's about as likely as getting Santa Claus as the next POTUS).

I just looked up the 3 'faithless electors' from Virginia (my home state) on the above list and all 3 are Democrats (one from Harrisonburg, one from Bristol and one from Dublin) So no I don't see how they're GOP members who have been flipped from Trump to someone else...that bit of this story is just plain wrong.

Here's a link to our Virginia's electors in case you want to see if anyone not a Democrat (includes Libertarians, Greens and Republicans) actually does become 'faithless'.

http://www.elections.virginia.gov/board/electoral-college/electors.html

johngaltfla's picture

FOR THE RECORD:

I can not WAIT until Trump gets the GOP to pass a law which provides tax exempt status to a maximum of $100 million for private university trust funds and any balance above that to be taxed at a 35% rate.

I'll bet ye old Harvard asshole Nazi supporting Eugenics type liberals then won't be so fucking brazen as this prick.

Whoa Dammit's picture

@BamaWatson--

Here is a more detailed article about the Georgia DHS hack:

In an exclusive interview, a visibly frustrated Secretary of State Brian Kemp confirmed the attacks of different levels on his agency's network over the last 10 months. He says they all traced back to DHS internet provider addresses.

The first one happened on Feb. 2, the day after Georgia’s voter registration deadline. The next one took place just days before the SEC primary. Another occurred in May, the day before the general primary, and then two more took place in November, the day before and the day of the presidential election.

Last week, the DHS confirmed the large Nov. 15 attack traced back to a U.S. Customs and Border Protection internet gateway. But Kemp says the DHS’ story about its source keeps changing.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/georgia/georgia-secretary-of-state-says-cybera...
Tall Tom's picture

 

 

 

 

If Trump can overcome the obstacles of the defection of Electors in the Electoral College Vote, and the counting of the votes by Congress in January then he will be faced with an uncooperatve Congress.

 

He will not get the GOP Congress to do anything as they have already signaled their intentions to block him.

 

The problem I see here with most is that they are not Constitutionalists as Presidents were NEVER MEANT to be chosen by the public. That was not the Founders intent. Presidents were meant to be chosen by State Assemblies and State Senates, who were to appoint the Electors. The States have abdicated that responsibility to the State Board of Elections.

 

This is a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC. Most Republicans posting here are RINOs.

 

But the Democrats, who are POSING AS REPUBLICANS HERE, want a Democratic voice in their selection of a President. Wah...wah...wah.

 

If the Electors change their vote then that is Constitutional and the way that it needs to be. The citizens need no voice other than that through STATE REPRESENTATION as to who their president shall be. That is the way that it is designed to function.

 

That is a RETURN TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL PRINCIPLES and needs be celebrated. That is what conservatism is all about.

 

But far too many here will fight that tooth and nail. They really want a Democracy as they secretly enjoy their SOCIALISM. They are just as evil as the Socialists who they castigate and demonize. But they are even much worse as they stand on the unstable foundation of HYPOCRISY.

 

So what I read here is WHINING from a whole bunch of Closet Socialists castigating the fucked up Socialists who are outspoken.

 

It is actually laughable.

 

To Liberty.

 

 

Tall Tom's picture

 

 

 

Go on ahead. Junk the way that it was established by the Founding Fathers.

 

Let your voices be heard, SOCIALISTS. Democracy matters and truth is by consensus and has absolutely nothing to do with the facts of our History. The comments on ZH are becoming like reading a Common Core Echo Box....or a Yahoo Comment Section.

 

Your votes count. It will change the facts. Yeah. Right.

 

Yeah. I'll buy that...NOT.

 

LMAO. Fuckin' hypocrites.

macholatte's picture

 

Who is paying Harvard University law professor Larry Lessig and how much?
We all know he is nothing more than a tool of the fascist left and that the corrupt
Obama government fabricated the fake narrative as a pretext to assist with the corruption of the Electoral College Electors and steal the election.

There is no meaningful discussion regarding the content presented in the Wikileaks. Has anybody vigorously denied the truthfulness of those documents? Clearly the Soros-Clinton Machine has no desire to shine any light onto the content of those emails. But they know full well that with Trump as POTUS that is likely coming. They are shitting themselves.

Here’s the really sad part.... Conservatives don’t riot. They sleep well at night with their millions of guns tucked away safely in their closets, drawers and gun safes. They will never go out and find every one of the left wing scum named above and burn down their homes or beat them up. They will complain and go to work and pay their taxes and pray.  And the Soros Machine knows it.

Mercuryquicksilver's picture

Wikileaks is nothing compared to the "Insurance" folder planted on Weiners computer. What happens when a pedophile psychopath occultist is backed into a corner? Nobody knows.

Holy hand grenade of Antioch's picture
Holy hand grenade of Antioch (not verified) Mercuryquicksilver Dec 14, 2016 4:43 PM

This douche actually tried to run for President in 2015 on the Democratic ticket (but then gave up the bid in November 2015)...

 

So, apparently, even the DEMS think he's FOS

Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Lessig seems to be an Armchair POTUS.

Doesn't have control, wants to.

Jim in MN's picture

THIS is the only real story. 

And yes we do know. 

Cue the final scene of 'Scarface.'

Freddie's picture

I sleep well knowing that Putin and most Russians hate Soros f**king guts.   They know who these people are.  People like Soros and Lessig murdered 25 million Christian Russians.

I also sleep well with the 2nd Amendment but I need scuba gear to recover any guns I ever had.

Titus's picture

Larry Lessig.

Hmm, I wonder what cultural group Larry Lessig came from?

Vigilante's picture

Joo....(every single time)

Bwana's picture

I wouldn't bet on all the conservatives taking this on the chin. The conservatives in the US are couch potatoes. They go to work, they come home, they entertain themselves and take a modest vacation about every other year. Most of the time and as long as nobody really screws with them they are happy to live their lives as a couch potato. This is what Tojo and Hitler thought Americans were only capable of. Then the Japanese hit Pearl Harbor and the Americans came flying off their couches ready to fight. Both the Germans and the Japanese had no respect for our military until they were shown we could kill or wound the Germans at a 3 Germans to 1 American ratio and the Japanese went down at a 12 to 1 ratio. 

The conservatives have eaten more than a belly full of liberal crap these last 8 years. I personally believe the conservatives have taken about all they will take and all it will take to start a civil war is just a few more willfully illegal spit in our faces acts from the liberal left. If Americans got pissed off enough to launch themseves of their couches who or what could stop millions of armed citizens? Who would want to stop them until the social surgery was complete. 350,000,000 firearms and 14 to 17 billion cartridges for them is probably more small arms and ammunition than the entire rest of the world combined. If every pissed off conservative just took out their deer rifle and shot one dirt bag the situation would be resolved. I hope it doesn't happen but this push to steal the possible economic recovery may push them off their couches.

Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

Right on. 

And it'd be a push to steal a lot more than just an economic recovery.

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

"If every pissed off conservative..."

That probably explains the frantic, near-hyterical attack on gun rights by the collectivists/statist, and the staging of so many shootings to gin up support for their irrational position. 

WarPony's picture

Here’s the really sad part.... Conservatives don’t riot. They sleep well at night with their millions of guns tucked away safely in their closets, drawers and gun safes. They will never go out and find every one of the left wing scum named above and burn down their homes or beat them up. They will complain and go to work and pay their taxes and pray. 

 

Some of us kinda hope you're right, but consider this.  There was Waco which caught a lot of us pretty much off guard.  Sure, some knew about Gordon Khal, some didn't.  Most everyone knew about Ruby Ridge, but these two events seemed unrelated, at least until the Waco massacre.  That was the clarion call which registered with a lot of militia as The.Final.Straw.

Well, the feds were stupid enough to try to roll out another blood game in Montana against the so-called Freeman.  They were met with very heavy, and very much underreported resistance by the militias from many States and ALL across the Country.  The feds didn't burn and murder like they did at Waco because Don Vos and a guy named Dan Wooten (aka  alphabet since he was pretty hard to tag) went on Lewiston radio where Don warned the feds that IF they tried a Waco here, they would leave Montana if at all, in body bags.  This certainly hit the papers (search Billings Gazette for Gary Gershmiel around April of '96).  See, Don was far from alone as thousands came to lurk and wait, and he had a close, Wizard of Oz kinda crew (not Wooten) who were very good at what they did - clairvoyant even.

So, you may say, what about the Fort Davis, Texas standoff, or the Bundy bunch which followed. Well, the first was feds - did you see them que a lawyer, a trick they learned from us in Montana?  Don and I were in touch with the Fort Davis team, where second in command White Eagle was a known fed.  And Bundy, the real deal Militia wasn't concerned about a millionaire-welfare rancher.  Although, it did tickle us that a lot of folks were so-inspired to go play soldiers for his cause.

No, there hasn't been the right moment to go full Militia and revolt.  In Montana, we figured that whosoever fired the first shot would lose, and the feds rightly decided not to fire.  Had the Militias started it, the press would have easily turned public opinion against us.  Fort Davis and Bundies had the same problem, lack of popular support (although, the bag of dicks was hilarious, what the fuck did they expect ? Children). And, shit, those fools ended up getting someone needlessly dead.

Now though, a lot of the initial disadvantages have dissipated.  The people (enough anyway) get that the press lies and works for the establishment.  Enough have a taste of the corruption of the liberals and despise them. Enough know that installing the criminal over Trump is the crossing of the Rubicon and the point of no return. Another factor, where would the LEOs and military stand, and factor in UN troops (under Safe Cities Act).  Twenty years ago it was a little dicey.  Today, I believe it's a lot different, more leaning right than ever.  Lastly, the militias in Montana in 1996 are now of the age where a longer life is not more important than the Country we leave to our kids.  In other words, it may be just what they want, it has been what we have been waiting for, for the turkeys in this turkey shoot to clearly show their heads, and I won't be surprised when you are proven wrong.  It just feels to me that this is probably the "right" time, if it has to be.  Which it will be if they deny Trump his win.

See: tech.mit.edu/V116/N16/militia.16w.html (Olsen is/was a Fed-militia POSER - so was Southwell, Trochmann, Johnson, Rydell, etc.) I'm not General Don Vos.

Remember, only 3% of the Nation's population fought for and won Freedom in the first American revolution, only 3%.  Remember also, some of us rightly believe in a Divine Providence that brought freedom to earth in the form of a nation founded upon law.  We're going to surf that cosmic ray again if it appears necessary.  The worse that could happen would be we get sent Home and that doesn't frighten.  Finally, "the surest way to prevent war is not to fear it." (J. Randolph, 3/5/1806).  alea iacta est

Jim in MN's picture

When the real balloon goes up, it will be pretty obvious.

Like me, I am practically a fucking Buddhist about violence. 

When I say go, fucking GO.

We should have like a special Zebra striped referee group at ZH, the lifers who are level headed.  If this group ever goes dark or says to take out the Deep State, then that is all.

Well, whatever, I guess we kind of do have that.  We are practically the gatekeepers of 'reality' at this stage. 

For the record: 

NOT YET

WarPony's picture

Hey Jim in "'MN"!, certainly not yet, and certainly, not never - merely a Citizen's arrest, if need be.  See ya on the grassy knoll nearby the final count if so required - BYOB!

macholatte's picture

 

Thanks for the comments  WarPony & Bwana & others.
Only one element missing in your scenarios, leadership. Command & Control.
Soros & Co. have been in the game for 40 years and have unlimited money, control the government, the military and the police as well as the media and have shock troops already in place (BLM, etc) ready to explode. They can simply offer $10M bribes to Electors + protection. Hard to turn that down. Maybe they already have. Any flashes of patriotism will be put down quicky and silently. The left depends on the loyalty of the federal police agencies (DHS, FBI, etc) and the local cops will simply follow orders.  Gotta get that overtime.
And don’t forget about the brain washing of the millions. There are self deprecating  white people who hate white people. No other race or nationality is like that. 40 years of mind fucking goes deep and it’s going to take a long time to get over it, if at all. You cannot reason with a sick mind.
People keep talking about needing some kind of flash point before they act. We’re living it right now. Nothing to wait for. Has anyone threatened any of the faithless electors? No? See.
For all we know the preparation from the left over the past several years with FEMA camps and purging the military and providing local police with military gear as well as billions of rounds for DHS and the postal police etc.,  has been preparation for December 19.... and don’t discount the media.  Barry can selectively disconnect the internet in about 5 minutes. Then what?
Sorry guys. WE are completely fucked if the electoral college fails and Hitlary takes office.
 I hope I’m wrong because there’s nothing I’d like better to see than our military refusing to take orders from Barry and then arresting him and the staff at CNN and Soros and hundreds more. But it ain’t gonna happen.

 

Withdrawn Sanction's picture

"Has anyone threatened any of the faithless electors?"

Have YOU?  Lead the way, sarge.

BTW, the best "Barry" can do is shut off the domain name resolvers.  Literally turning off the internet (virtually impossible, as it was designed to be self-healing) will kill the very government that tries it.  Their revenue stream would die almost instantly and with it, so would they.

WarPony's picture

"WE are completely fucked if the electoral college fails and Hitlary takes office."


Exactly!  And, thank you macholatte.  Kinda reminds me of this scene from "Braveheart:"

 

"William Wallace (riding horse): Sons of Scotland! I am William Wallace.

Young Soldier: William Wallace is seven feet tall!

William Wallace: Yes, I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds. And if HE were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.

[Scottish army laughs]

William Wallace: I *am* William Wallace! And I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny. You've come to fight as free men... and free men you are. What will you do with that freedom? Will you fight?

Veteran: Fight? Against that? No! We will run. And we will live.

William Wallace: Aye, fight and you may die. Run, and you'll live... at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willin' to trade ALL the days, from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies that they may take our lives, but they'll never take... OUR FREEDOM!

[Scottish army cheers]"

 

About "living in a flash point right now," macholatte, you are so right!  Except for, they haven't denied Trump, yet.  IF Hillary gets in and nothing happens, there will most likely never be another decent opportunity, ever again to turn back tyranny?  The forces against the people will only grow in size, expertise and preparedness. The purge and mind control will continue and only get worse.  The number of people in the older generations who could most likely turn back the tyranny will shrink.  The door is apparently closing, the noose of elite-run globalism tightens and that door will likely close for good if the criminal is selected into office and nothing happens? Pretty damn depressing if that's how it plays out!

 

Perhaps though, those electors are getting pushed by the right?  Likely, primary-target media would never let on?  And, perhaps there isn't much as far as initial command and control, but the beauty is that "unorganized militia" doesn't exactly equate to meaning "disorganized," in that the shear numbers would initially compensate - especially if there are multiples of militia groups engaging primary-targets leftist politicians and their families?  

 

Certainly, at first you have leaderless-resistance, but that wouldn't last long since as is said, the world moves out of the way for a man with a plan and the militias I'm aware of have been "planning" for decades.  From what I've seen, they are massively manned- and womanned-uped. Incidentally, there is short-wave radio to compensate for internet glitches, along with a natural and intuitive shared understanding of how to move and where to strike, at least from what I've learned about Patriots.  Once it got rolling, it would simply SNOW-BALL OFF OF THE CHARTS.

 

"It's" NOT what I want, but I'll be prepared.  I'm pretty sure I know which side of the fence I will have to jump to when the balloon goes up, and I'm pretty sure I know folks who are going to launch that balloon if they deny Trump, who wasn't my first choice for Prez, but who is Prez-elect and who is being challenged by the criminal.  Never her, and it will only take just one chance to actually work.

 

jcaz's picture

Larry is going to use all this nonsense as proof that he's published-  he's counting on his superiors at Harvard not being able to grasp your point;

He's making a decent bet.

HowdyDoody's picture

"In a speech in 2011, Lessig revealed that he was disappointed with Obama's performance in office, criticizing it as a "betrayal", and he criticized the president for using "the (Hillary) Clinton playbook"."

However, he is now apparently happy for Clinton the use the Clinton Playbook. What made him run 180 degrees?

It appears that he might have been a pizza boy :-

"In May 2005, it was revealed that Lessig had experienced sexual abuse by the director at the American Boychoir School, which he had attended as an adolescent"

So, presumably Lessig is for a full investigation of Pizzagate. If not, then why not? The People should know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Lessig