The EU Vs. The Nation State?

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by George Igler via The Gatestone Institute,

  • The question remains, however, why any nation would want to throw out its sovereignty to institutions that are fundamentally unaccountable, that provide no mechanism for reversing direction, and whose only "solution" to problems involves arrogating to itself ever more authoritarian, rather than democratically legitimate, power.
  • Previous worries over unemployment and the economy have been side-lined: the issues now vexing European voters the most, according to the EU's own figures, are mass immigration (45%) and terrorism (32%).
  • The Netherlands' Partij Voor de Vrijheid, France's Front National and Germany's Alternativ für Deutschland are each pushing for a referendum on EU membership in their respective nations.
  • Given that the EU's institutions have been so instrumental as a causal factor in the mass migration and terrorism that are now dominating the minds of national electorates, some might argue that the sooner Europeans get rid of the EU, which is now doing more harm than good, the better.

Attention is beginning to focus on elections due to take place in three separate European countries in 2017. The outcomes in the Netherlands, France and Germany will determine the likely future of the European Union (EU).

In the Netherlands, on March 15, all 150 members of the country's House of Representatives will face the ballot box. The nation is currently led by Prime Minister Mark Rutte, whose VVD party holds 40 seats in the legislative chamber, ruling in a coalition with the Dutch Labour party, which holds 35 seats.

In contrast, the Party for Freedom – Partij Voor de Vrijheid (PVV) – led by Geert Wilders, currently holds 12 seats.

According to an opinion poll, issued on December 21, Wilders's party has leapt to 24% in the polls, while Rutte's party has slid to 15%. Were an election to happen now, this would translate to 23 MPs for Rutte's VVD, and 36 MPs for Wilders's PVV.

Given the strict formula of proportional representation in the Netherlands, however, coalition governments are the norm. Should Wilders's PVV come first in March, he will likely need to negotiate with one of his staunchest critics to form a government.

In France, two rounds of voting in the presidential elections are set to take place on April 23 and May 7 – with the two leading candidates from the first round facing each other in a runoff in the second round.

The most likely candidates to make it through to the second round, François Fillon, of the centre-right Les Républicains, and Marine Le Pen, of the populist Front National, remain tied in first-round polling.

A survey, published on December 7, gave each candidate 24%. Le Pen's party, however, has previously fallen afoul of France's dual-round voting system, in which voters for other parties have used the second round to swing behind the more moderate candidate.

A separate BVA poll, which solely simulated a run off between Fillon and Le Pen, showed the former the potential victor by 67%.

For all the discussion of a populist revolt in European politics, the parties agitating for change against the continent's open borders, and its centralized, unaccountable and un-transparent law-making – originating from the institutions of the EU – continue to face an uphill climb.

In Germany, despite the calamities associated with the decision of its Chancellor, Angela Merkel, to accept 1.5 million Muslim migrants into her nation in 2015, she is seeking re-election.

On a date yet to be determined, between August 27 and October 22, German federal elections will take place to decide the members of the Bundestag, the country's federal parliament.

Despite having been founded only in April 2013, the populist Alternative for Germany party – Alternativ für Deutschland (AfD) – has recently risen to an unprecedented 16% in the polls, in the wake of the attack on Berlin Christmas shoppers on December 19. Terrorism is proving a driver of voters' intentions.

The increasing levels of support being enjoyed by Europe's populist Eurosceptic parties are clearly associated with issues which are coming to dominate popular concern. Previous worries over unemployment and the economy have been side-lined: the issues now vexing European voters the most, according to the EU's own figures (pp.4-5), are mass immigration (45%) and terrorism (32%).

Breaking these Eurobarometer numbers down further, country by country (p.7), Dutch voters picked immigration as their greatest concern by a startling 56%, with terrorism following at 33%.

French voters, despite being subjected to more recent terrorist atrocities than any other European nation, picked immigration and terrorism by a margin of 36% and 35%, respectively, according to the latest EU report. The parlous state of the French economy continues to be a major concern to French voters.

The elections scheduled next year in the Netherlands, France, and Germany, are doubly significant in that they make up three of the six original signatory nations of the founding treaty which eventually gave rise to the EU.

The Netherlands' Partij Voor de Vrijheid, France's Front National and Germany's Alternativ für Deutschland are each pushing for a referendum on EU membership in their respective nations.

Signed in March 1957, by Italy, France, West Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands and Luxembourg, the Treaty of Rome established both the European Economic Community – proposing a single market for goods, labour, services and capital within the bloc – and also, crucially, brought the European Commission into existence.

The executive body of the EU, which also has the sole remit for initiating legislation at the European level, is led by the controversial Jean-Claude Juncker, whose own grim opinion of the nation state's role in the likely future of the European continent was made clear in a speech on December 9.

On the 25th anniversary of the drafting of the Maastricht Treaty, which paved the way for the Euro – the single currency shared by 19 countries within the 28 member EU – Mr. Juncker delivered a stark message:

Europe is the smallest continent. ... We are a relevant part of the global economy: 25% of the global GPD. In 10 years from now, it will be 15%. In 20 years from now, not one single Member State of the European Union will be a member of the G7. ... And from a demographic point of view, we are not really disappearing, but we are losing demographic weight.


At the beginning of the 20th century, the Europeans represented 20% of the human kind. Now, at the beginning of this century: 7%. At the end of this century: 4% out of 10 billion people. So those who do think that time has come to deconstruct, to put Europe in pieces, to subdivide us in national divisions, are totally wrong. We will not exist as single nations without the European Union.

In short, according to Juncker, the European nation state simply no longer has a future. Many, including voters this year in Britain and Italy, and potential supporters of the PVV, the AfD and the Front National, would emphatically disagree.

In the 2017 elections in the Netherlands and France, Geert Wilders (left) and François Fillon (right) have good chances of being elected.

Critics of the EU, whose philosophical foundations were laid between the two World Wars, have often claimed that its purpose was to tie together the economic fortunes of each member state so that exiting the bloc would become practicably impossible.

As one of the founding fathers of the EU, the French diplomat Jean Monnet, argued in 1943:

"There will be no peace in Europe if states are reconstituted on a basis of national sovereignty ... Prosperity and vital social progress will remain elusive until the nations of Europe form a federation or a 'European entity' which will forge them into a single economic unit."

This "fusion of (economic functions)," Monnet explained in 1952, "would compel nations to fuse their sovereignty into that of a single European State."

Despite the historic vote by the United Kingdom to exit the EU on June 23, the procedural mechanism for Britain's departure has yet to be implemented, and has been the subject of extended legal and parliamentary debate.

Those who had hoped that Britain would have already demonstrated a clear economic future for a nation outside the EU bloc, to embolden populist parties in other European countries seeking independence, before next year's pivotal elections, have had their wishes caught up, temporarily at least, in the cogs of procedure.

The question remains, however, why any nation would want to throw out its sovereignty to institutions that are fundamentally unaccountable, that provide no mechanism for reversing direction, and whose only "solution" to problems involves arrogating to itself ever more authoritarian, rather than democratically legitimate, power.

However, the EU claims that support for the euro within the currency bloc is at an all-time high (70%), and a majority in countries like Hungary, Romania and Croatia would, in fact, like to join the EU's currency union.

Given that concerns about mass migration, and the increase in crime and terrorism that have accompanied it, are only likely to grow, and that cross-national security cooperation is necessarily undermined by the EU's open internal borders – Anis Amri, the Berlin truck assassin, was shot dead in Milan – Europe's populist parties nevertheless face a sizeable challenge.

Despite voters' concerns about mass migration, in the absence of presenting their electorates with a compelling economic vision outside of the EU, polling numbers still favour the political mainstream.

Given that the EU's institutions have been so instrumental as a causal factor in the mass migration and terrorism that are now dominating the minds of national electorates, some might argue that the sooner Europeans get rid of the EU, which is now doing more harm than good, the better.

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Terp's picture

Fuck the EU.

Fuki's picture
Fuki (not verified) Terp Dec 29, 2016 4:30 AM

Progressives applaud the European Commission confiscating gold from "suspect" people


philipat's picture

And they never even think of changing course. All the Europrats ever do is double down on anti-democratic controls. Juncker was kicked out of office in Luxembourg for corruption offences (And that didn't even include all the kickbacks he received for the cute little MNC tax deals) so was a natural for the unelected President of the EC, where all the executive power is centred. He is a corrupt arrogant little alcoholic dwarf; just the right person to lead Europe? Fortunately, it will soon be over. Of course, it was all set up deliberately by the CIA so that it could be controlled from Washington more easily.

Good riddance Juncker and the EU. And the CIA for that matter?

Perimetr's picture

Any nation that hands its national bank and currency over to private banksters loses its sovereignty over time. 

The ability to create unlimited amounts of legal tender, paper and digital currency

gives unlimited power to the banksters

who then use this power to buy the politicians, educational system, and media, 

and thereby control the nation through the actions of the Central banks, such as the Federal Reserve. 

The fascist, unelected "leaders" of the EU don't give a damn about the people of Europe

Juncker and friends take their orders from the globalists, from the banksters, from the deep state in Washington.

Polemos's picture

The continuum is governed by the minimum total potential energy principle and is just a cloud of hydrogen self-gravitationally condensing into a single nucleus—a heavily indebted neutron star:

So where did all the energy come from when the star was shining all those millions of years? Where did the energy come from to produce the sound and the fury which is a supernova explosion? Energy is conserved; who paid the debts at the end? Answer: gravity! The gravitational potential energy of the final neutron star is much greater (negatively; that's the debt) than the gravitational potential energy of the corresponding main-sequence star (Problem 8.7). So, despite all the intervening interesting nuclear physics, ultimately Kelvin and Helmholtz were right after all! This is an important moral worth remembering and savoring. If we regard the neutron star as one gigantic atomic nucleus, we may also say that nuclear processes plus gravity have succeeded in converting many atomic nuclei into one nucleus. Problem 8.7 then shows that the ultimate energy source for the entire output of the star is the relativistic binding energy of the final end state.


Shu, Frank H. The Physical Universe: An Introduction to Astronomy. University Science Books, 1982, p. 157

Thus, throughout its millions of years of existence, a massive star is powered solely by the attraction exerted by its heavily indebted final endstate.

That is why mankind is inexorably moving towards its collapse into an ultracompact "neutron star"—a single couple of superhumans, the Last Adam and Eve.

You cannot avoid this heavily indebted endstate, because all of your desires and thoughts are being elicited by the attraction exerted by it.

Said otherwise, even your fighting against globalization is a part of the most efficient globalization scenario.

philipat's picture

Um, I must be totally stupid but WTF are you talking about?

Polemos's picture

Matter is actual. Spirit is potential.

The energy of a potential field is negative. A negative energy is an energy debt. Therefore, the world spirit is the gradient of the world's debt.

The world spirit wants to make matter more debt-bound, more globalized.

Humanity's future is debt bondage. It follows from the minimum total potential energy principle, which can be rephrased as the maximum total debt principle.

BabaLooey's picture

Fuck You MBD - take your worthless site and shove it up your ass.

Nightjar's picture

you can follow things european via this podcast, and the right stuff europa report, hail victory.

Fireman's picture

Mr Juncker has never hidden his view that the compromises and deals being worked out in EU meetings or leaders or ministers need be protected from public scrutiny, by lies if necessary.

"When it becomes serious, you have to lie," 


This evil, lying whore has the same credibility as the rest of the compromised punks in the so-called European Commission or the Pedophile Politburo in Natostan sewer Brussels, seat of the collapsing EUSSR.


Onward to the the co££ap$€ of worthless Pentacon protected fiat filth and the execution of the banksters and political whores that peddle it!


Cracker Pipes's picture

...the EU is an abomiNation...

kellys_eye's picture


Compare and contrast this article to that of the George Soros one (also on ZH) and you don't need leading by the hand to chose the right course.


marcel tjoeng's picture


the process is called

corruption, treachery, selfwhoring to the Goldman Sachs, ECB, Ruben, Summers banking cabal


not that hard to figure our, is it now ..



relaxtrading's picture

I hope this monster colapse soon. 

farmboy's picture

In the Netherlands new right wing anti EU parties are being created that can cause a surprise coalition with PVV. That will create a political tsunami.

Bollockinell's picture

Pleased to hear it. Holland may be a very small country but unlike the rest of the EU nation states, at least many of the Dutch have a pair of balls!

BritBob's picture

Looks like the UK will be heading for a hard Brexit especially when one country (or part of a country in Belgium) can stall negotiations for so long.

And Spain has the cheek to maintain its Gibraltar sovereignty claim.

Gibraltar - Some Relevant International Law:

So it looks like a quick hasta luego !


q0paz's picture

The rate at which Europe's share of global GDP is diminishing is directly attributable to the disastrous economic policies instituted by economic illiterates like Juncker and his gang of like-minded loons. And it is obvious that the importation of millions of culturally incompatible refugees from the middle East ages, is all part of the grand plan to offset the deteriorating demographics in expectation that this will enable them to maintain the Ponzi financing of state obligations to the honest but deluded working stiffs who are expecting to be looked after into their old age, not to mention continuing the maintenance of the elites in the lifestyles to which they have become accustomed through the funding of their gold plated pensions. Of course, this completely fails to comprehend both the non?linearity of history and the impending obsolescence of unskilled human beings of below average intelligence and education as the source of energy expenditure which is stored to 'create' wealth. And rather than submit their lunatic ideas to scientific scrutiny through democratic accountability they seek to bring them in via deception.  These people are criminals.

Ghordius's picture

you "had me" at diminuishing. how about Asia rising? you call Juncker an "economic illiterate". lol

"the importation of millions of culturally incompatible refugees from the middle East ages..."

you know what is criminal? supporting all those damn wars, for example in Iraq and Syria. end those wars... and those refugees can be sent back

Germany is already sending the Afghani back, deportations ongoing. but that, of course, spoils the narrative of your bullshit

Terp's picture

Oh yeah, I remember...all 38 of them. All good then, huh?

Why not just stick to the laws instead of the moralizing whims of a post-menopausal, childless harpy?

Ghordius's picture

"post-menopausal, childless harpy"? it's not even a good ad-hom since I'm a man, my little precious snowflake

Terp's picture

I was talking about Merkel you dolt.

And since you are a white cuck like all the other libfags, you are using the term "man" quite generously.

Ghordius's picture

"a white cuck like all the other libfags"

here I have to abuse you of that notion. since I am a Continental european man... it does not apply to me

that "white cuck" stuff rhymes with the "White Knight" stuff. it's a American cultural phenomenon. with roots in how America was colonized, and how few women were among the early colonists, making them very precious

same with "libfag", whereas we don't have your kind of "liberals"

meanwhile... stopping those wars is still the fastest way to get those refugees back. but it spoils your narrative, doesn't it?

Terp's picture

Sorry to break it to you, I´m german like you (I guess?) and "men" like you are exactly the problem.

Self-righteous, patronizing, spineless douchebags who are unable to see past their lifelong conditioning of "equality" and "fairness" and all the other imaginary bullshit the institutionalized left is parading around for close to 30 years now.

You want others to give up what is rightfully theirs, just to pacify your ingrained feelings of guilt for not living in a cave.

The very definition of a white cuck.

Ghordius's picture

you are for sure not German. you might think that you are German, but your thinking does not apply in Germany

come on, tell me that you have a German citizenship, that you speak German and that you have a German education/culture

you are clearly an American, perhaps of German descent. ready to patronize, with a self-righteous attitude, and even faster in identifying a self-righteous, patronizing attitude in all things european in europeans that really happen to live here

you can turn it in any direction, that "white cuck" thing is not european, it is American. and it's counterpart is that "White Knight" thing, which we also do not have. we simply do not have that history

Terp's picture

Ich weiß zwar nicht warum du meine Ansichten für undeutsch hältst, aber vielleicht ist es einfacher für dich abweichende Meinungen mit geographischen Unterschieden zu erklären. Deutschland krankt an Typen wie dir...Typen die nervös werden wenn einer von Familie, Volk und Vaterland spricht. Typen die von Freiheit quatschen ohne zu wissen was das ist, die es normal finden das Weltanschauungen staatlich reglementiert werden sollten und die noch nach Rechtfertigungern suchen wenn Merkels Illegale (ja, diese Leute sind widerrechtlich hier) Frauen und Kinder vergewaltigen, Omas die Treppen runterstoßen und sich auch sonst benehmen wie die Steinzeitmenschen die sie sind. Es gibt einfach keinen treffenderen Ausdruck in der deutschen Sprache.

Du bist ein white cuck wie er im Buche steht.

Ghordius's picture

my compliments, only two grammatical errors with commas, and a few low-cases instead of upper-cases

meanwhile, note that you had to break with German... because of course you could not find any German translation for "white cuck"


Terp's picture

Ich hab mir die förmliche Anrede mal gespart, daher kein "Du" oder "Sie". Mag sein das irgendwo ein Komma fehlt, seis drum.

Warum ich "white cuck" nicht übersetzt habe hab ich geschrieben: es gibt meiner Meinung nach keinen passenden deutschen Begriff.

"gehörnter weisser Schlappschwanz" wäre vielleicht noch am dichtesten dran, erfasst den Begriff jedoch auch nur unzureichend.

Rede dir nur weiter ein das (ausser dir natürlich) nur Amis ZH lesen.


PS: Meine Empfehlung an die Gattin (wenns denn eine gibt): übermorgen an Frau Reker denken und die Armlänge Abstand nicht vergessen, nicht das sie kulturell bereichert wird und sich von ihrem Gatten hinterher noch anhören muss sie wäre selber Schuld gewesen (so wie das bei cucks üblich ist).

Ghordius's picture

no, no, a few mistakes with commas actually make your case more believable. it's only incredibly old farts like me that never make grammatical mistakes with commas in German

there is no fitting German term because there was never something to describe with a term like that (until recently, if you must). that ought to give you something to think about, imo

so, do you have a German citizenship? have you ever lived in Germany?

I'd be delighed, btw, if you would self-identify as a Russian-German in Germany, something that would explain nicely why you did not know about the legal differences between "migrant" and "refugee/asylum-seeker" in German law

meanwhile, your "P.S." is another example of that "White Knight" thing. a more German mainstream opinion about that... is exactly the cultural difference that was exploited by all that rubbish. and where did all that impact most? again, there is a geographical difference there. in the East

Ghordius's picture

no, I have no problem whatsoever with Family, People and Fatherland

indeed, that's one of the reasons why I am moderately behind the Alliance called "the EU"

you want to talk about the National Good for the Fatherland? fine. what is the other alliance you are proposing?

if you are saying: "none whatsoever"... then I have to answer: learn your German history, that's (again) an American thing, that "we don't need alliances"

Terp's picture

Das freut mich zu hören, Herr Junkers und Herr Schulz sehen das aber anders.

Die EG war schon ok, dabei hätte man es gerne lassen können.

Ghordius's picture

now this part sounds definitely British. including an overstatement of how much power Junker and Schulz really have

Terp's picture

Ok, I give up. Obviously there is nothing I can do to persuade you of my nationality.

Guten Rutsch, hoffen wir das 2017 nicht so wird wie ich befürchte.

q0paz's picture

It is diminishing due to Asia rising. I said THE RATE at which it is doing so is due to poor policy decisions by economic illiterates. There's plenty of economic incompetence in Asia too.  Asia's future world economic dominance is not a delta 1. But Europe's decline did not have to be a certainty either. As for the importation of the refugees, never mind that they've sent a few back.... it is still an act of utter criminal negligence. There is zero hope that these people will integrate.... the UK had a proper sectarian war for 20 years which ended as little as 17 years ago as a result of religious enmities that have persisted for 300 years. The wars in Syria and Iraq are part of the Islamic secatarian civil war in which the meddling do-gooding west (Bush Bliar and Obama) west wrongly intervened but that war has a long way to run. One of us may be a bullshitter but it ain't me.

Ace006's picture

At least 73 have been sent back. It's a tsunami of repatriation! Stand back!!!

4freedom78's picture

All this shit started with the fucking cia-clinton arab springs.

Ghordius's picture

the same team who's member Vicky Nuland was found saying on a Russian tape: "Fuck the EU (and what they want for Ukraine)"

Ace006's picture

No. It started when those greedy, vicious white bastards imported negro slaves into a magnificent country. We've been dealing with that moral catastrophe and negro resentment and pathology ever since. The final blow has been to now have negroes in the pocket of the subversive left which has ruined our society by catering to negroes and foreign invaders and  our economy and is now exporting its aggression and diseased thinking.

Some blacks are decent and productive, etc., etc.

Funn3r's picture

The UK is not really a country. For example I live in England but there are also Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. I have nothing particularly in common with those countries so how come I am in a "United Kingdom" union with them? 

So the idea that UK is somehow an authentic nation state oppressed by the EU does not really make sense. What difference does it make anyway? All the people who rant about being ruled by faceless elite Brussels guys-in-suits, what do they think Brexit will achieve except shift control to a different bunch of guys-in-suits.


Mass_hysteria's picture
Mass_hysteria (not verified) Funn3r Dec 29, 2016 6:23 AM

scotland and england have fought numerous wars, they are not the same country's the commie mentality your leaders have atm

Ghordius's picture

"scotland and england ... they are not the same country lol"

this is probably one of the reasons why all this european stuff seems to be very difficult to understand on the other side of the pond

Scotland is a Nation. England is a Nation. each of them is not a country, at least not at the moment

the country is called United Kingdom. one multinational state. and yes, this entails multiculturalism, then the Scottish culture is not exactly the English culture, and the Welsh culture is even further from both. Wales is another Nation part of the UK

meanwhile, England voted to exit the club of sovereigns called the EU, while Scotland wants to remain in it

and no, that "commie mentality..." explanation is still met with headshakes when uttered on this side of the pond

Funn3r's picture

Scotland is a Nation. England is a Nation. each of them is not a country, at least not at the moment

They most certainly are countries! Try saying that to the average pissed-up Jock or Taffy and see what happens. Pro-tip: remember to take along a baggie for your loose teef.

Ghordius's picture

"ruled by faceless elite Brussels guys-in-suits..."

like who? David Cameron and Nigel Farage?

Ghordius's picture

and another huge bunch of lies from our dear "Gatestone Institute"

like Juncker saying: "...We will not exist as single nations without the European Union." and the Gatestone Institute coming with this bullshit:

"In short, according to Juncker, the European nation state simply no longer has a future."

errr... no. that's not what he said

or this poppycock:

"...the parties agitating for change against the continent's open borders (1), and its centralized, unaccountable and un-transparent law-making (2) – originating from the institutions of the EU"

1. it's the national governments that manage those borders and all national laws about them. it was for example the German federal government headed by Merkel that decided to take in refugees stranded in Hungary. Ultimately, it was a non-EU country, Turkey, that was pivotal in all that. but look, the Gatestone Institute knows that: "In Germany, despite the calamities associated with the decision of its Chancellor, Angela Merkel, to accept 1.5 million Muslim migrants into her nation in 2015, she is seeking re-election. "

2. seriously? CETA was blocked by the Walloon parliament, for a while. that's not even a national parliament

further, there is nothing untransparent abour ministers voting in Council, nor about elected MEPs voting in the EU Parliament, nor, as we have seen with CETA lately, the votes in every and each national/regional parliament, of which we have some 33 of them

anybody with two brain cells to rub together ought, at this point, ask why the Gatestone Institute is so rabid about the EU and so favourable about all that right-wing stuff. but of course the same person would remember that they are also for a full-out war against anything Islam, for example

"However, the EU claims that support for the euro within the currency bloc is at an all-time high (70%), and a majority in countries like Hungary, Romania and Croatia would, in fact, like to join the EU's currency union."

claims? how about... states a fact? how about the support that the EUR has in... Greece? around 65%?

"Wilders's party has leapt to 24% in the polls... " and? how much does a coalition need in order to govern? ah, again, some magic: "Were an election to happen now, this would translate to 23 MPs for Rutte's VVD, and 36 MPs for Wilders's PVV ". Which leaves out the "Dutch Labour party, which holds 35 seats"

at least the Gatestone institute knows that Fillon represents the right. it will be interesting to see the contorsions of some English-speaking media to present the French political party called "Republicans" as something else then the right, but I'm sure they'll try, considering history

seriously, how dumb and misinformed does any reader nodding to this article have to be? it's a bunch of transparent lies, unashamedly so


smacker's picture

"[...] cross-national [EU] security cooperation is necessarily undermined by the EU's open internal borders – Anis Amri, the Berlin truck assassin, was shot dead in Milan"

Thus far I have not seen one shred of evidence - photos or video - presented by anybody which proves that Anis Amri was the driver of that large articulated truck.

Driving such vehicles is not easy and given how it was driven and maneuvered to the street market in Berlin along busy narrow roads etc, I question whether a guy of age 24 with no known experience of being a truck driver could have been the driver. His life history as a refugee from Tunisia entering Italy then Germany with no known employment record etc mitigates against him being the truck driver.

The real driver seems to have escaped and Amri has been used as the patsy. When he saw his name/photo being shown on TV as the culprit, he realised that he was the patsy and fled Germany. That raises the question of who helped him flee and who paid his costly travel tickets from Germany thru France and into Italy. A refugee would unlikely have that sort of cash in his pocket and in any case would risk being recognised at ticket counters etc.

Ghordius's picture

some of what you mention is possible, yes

meanwhile, do you have seen even one shred of evidence that Anis Amri wasn't the driver? further, Amri wasn't a refugee

he was a migrant that was due to be deported. for lack of a reason to stay in europe

the pattern, so far, is established: young migrants with criminal records... recruited by people that want terror to happen. now, those have money to burn

terror acts are usually organized. by groups of people that want terror to happen, and get funding for that

you Brits had the IRA. remember how difficult it was to explain to Irish-Americans that they ought to stop sending money to them?

Terp's picture

Please explain to me how a guy who came to Italy via Lampedusa, proceeded to torch an elementary school (refugee center) for which he spent the next 4 years in jail, only to then move across Switzerland into Germany, applying for and being denied asylum, nevertheless staying in Germany, collecting welfare under 7 identities (6 of them obviously fake) and freely traveling the country - is not a refugee but a "migrant".

The guy should have been deported or fed to the fish 5 years ago ffs. What is wrong with you psychopaths?

Ghordius's picture

since you asked, and nicely...

... I have to apologize, first. I often forget that you Americans really, really don't know what a refugee is

after all, you are not used to such things at all

a refugee is somebody that asked for and was granted the special status of asylum. it's like a guest, of temporary nature

that guy was clearly deranged, a petty criminal and... somebody helped him, which ought to explain some stuff, including those identities

meanwhile, it's not easy to deport them, you know? and you know what makes all this extra-difficult?

the general way that Americans have to not knowing nearly anything about other parts of the world, coupled with all those wars

your Soros, your Vicky Nuland... I could ask what is wrong with you... and your psychopaths

so no, deportations will continue, and become more... despite American influence