Creator of NSA’s Global Surveillance System Calls B.S. On Russian Hacking Report

George Washington's picture

We've previously documented that the hacking evidence against Russia is extremely weak, and the new report on Russian hacking doesn't say much.

Indeed - if Russia hacked the Democratic party emails (from the DNC and top Clinton aide John Podesta) - the NSA would have all of the records showing exactly who did it.

We asked Bill Binney what he thought of the new report.

Binney is the NSA executive who created the agency’s mass surveillance program for digital information, who served as the senior technical director within the agency, who managed six thousand NSA employees, the 36-year NSA veteran widely regarded as a “legend” within the agency and the NSA’s best-ever analyst and code-breaker, who mapped out the Soviet command-and-control structure before anyone else knew how, and so predicted Soviet invasions before they happened (“in the 1970s, he decrypted the Soviet Union’s command system, which provided the US and its allies with real-time surveillance of all Soviet troop movements and Russian atomic weapons”).

Binney is the real McCoy. As we noted in 2013, Binney has been interviewed by virtually all of the mainstream media, including CBS, ABC, CNN, New York Times, USA Today, Fox News, PBS and many others.

Binney tells Washington's Blog:

I expected to see the IP's or other signatures of APT's 28/29 [the entities which the U.S. claims hacked the Democratic emails] and where they were located and how/when the data got transferred to them from DNC/HRC [i.e. Hillary Rodham Clinton]/etc. They seem to have been following APT 28/29 since at least 2015, so, where are they?


Further, once we see the data being transferred to them, when and how did they transfer that data to Wikileaks? This would be evidence of trying to influence our election by getting the truth of our corrupt system out.


And, as Edward Snowden said, once they have the IP's and/or other signatures of 28/29 and DNC/HRC/etc., NSA would use Xkeyscore to help trace data passing across the network and show where it went. [Background.]


In addition, since Wikileaks is (and has been) a cast iron target for NSA/GCHQ/etc for a number of years there
should be no excuse for them missing data going to any one associated with Wikileaks.




Too many words means they don't have clear evidence of how the data got to Wikileaks.

Binney designed the NSA's electronic surveillance system, so he would know.

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B1G mNy's picture

As an IT administrator I see where he is coming from. Everyone keeps screaming Russia and the question I ask when you hack someone you don't leave traces behind. Oh well these are the same people who believed Hillary was going to win in a landslide.

yellowsub's picture

What's he's implying is that don't give our credit to Russia...

sun tzu's picture

As JFK said, the CIA needs to be smashed into little pieces and all high ranking members be tried for high treason. What's the punishment for high treason?

JohninMK's picture

Death to the instigator of the case of treason.

truthalwayswinsout's picture

Don't worry, be happy,

oncemore's picture

CIA owns Clintons, yet, CIA and Klingons are inthe same drug cartell.

Hence CIA owned the Klingon servers. There is no need for NSA to to monitor anything, if they control it via CIA. Bastards.

peu peu moxi's picture

mentalK as in KreBS on security you all a cancer - Creator of NSA’s  Hacking System Calls B.S. On Russian Global Surveillance Report.

GRDguy's picture

"Binney is the real McCoy. As we noted in 2013, Binney has been interviewed by virtually all of the mainstream media, including CBSABCCNNNew York TimesUSA TodayFox NewsPBS and many others."

Don't get me wrong, I respect Binney.

But the resume no longer means much.

It could be used against him, perhaps unfairly.

blindman's picture
The Way Of The World
Modest Proposal
USA Snubs Israel, & Everyone Goes Nuts.--Live Jimmy Dore show!
israel will send the bill for the settlements to uncle sam
again and the senile fucker will pay, watch.

JailBanksters's picture

Obviously the Pedesta Emails are real and NOT Fake Newz, so why isn't the Peadophile in Jail or at least being Investigated. And why isn't it, because the spy agencies, polticians are one big club and you're not in it. They all protect each other through laws and intimidation. That's the real crime here, not who broke in.



fleur de lis's picture

Podesta is not in jail because all the DC perverts know he would sing like a crow.

They will do everything in their power to protect him which protects them.

They all sup at the same trough.


steveo77's picture

It's been bothering me quite a bit.

Obama is a tool of "the Globalists" who are not always on the same page
The Globalists are mostly Jews

So why then does Obama reward Iran, literally flying them hundreds of millions, and an incredulous "deal" on their nuclear arms program, and then attack attack Israel at every opportunity.

Wouldn't the Jew leaders of the Globalists want to protect Israel?

One thing should be clear, Obama is a Muslim, pretending to be a Christian. So that is enough reason there to attack Israel. But why would his handlers allow that?

And that is the question on the table, why so indeed? Anyone have any hunches or intuition on this? We need a hypothesis that can be tested and refined.

Below is an insightful link that analyzes the a possible Globalist coup attempt by Soros and current blowback. Be nice if that guy just died.

detached.amusement's picture

The Jews invented all 3 religions, its all part of the gambit

GreatUncle's picture

Personal thoughts on this ...

Trying to isolate Russia from Turkey and Iran are definitely on the list of nations with land borders to Russia.

To move a land army through Russia you got to have access, they fucked up when they tried it with Poland in WW2.

Ukraine looks promising for them at this time (courtesy of Soros), but they need an EU army to do the war. If you attack with NATO, the US is pulled in and the US don't want that because they make money on the war itself and then cream it all off in the end.

Personally I thought Turkey was going to be this pawn, but after the staged coup not a chance. Isolating Russia is the US elites number one goal and in the event of instigating an attack you got to have the land route to support it.

Droning Russia is not going to work, you will need boots on the ground.


cherry picker's picture

Boots on the ground won't work either.

The Russian people are tough.  They don't have it easy like the people in Europe and North America do.

Not only are they tough, when they have a mind to they are determined, a quality which seems to be lacking with many nowadays.

swmnguy's picture

The key to the current (up to now, I mean) US foreign policy of the past 20 years is Zbigniew Brzezinski's "The Grand Chessboard."  

There's no intent of physically invading Russia.  The goal is to surround Russia with dumpster fires, and fan the flames of internal societal fault lines.  Then Russia just...falls apart.  That's the plan, at least.  

That's why it was so important to bring the Baltics into NATO, to turn Ukraine into a neo-Nazi Banderist hellhole, to keep Afghanistan from ever settling down, to build up Sunni extremism that would spread to the -stan countries, to keep tweaking Iran, to provoke Georgia into causing trouble in the Caucasus, and then the coup attempt in Turkey.

When all that didn't go so well, and then the Syria caper bogged down and started to fall apart, Brzezinski publicly disavowed his own strategy.  That officially left the US without a coherent geostrategy.  I keep expecting to hear of a major blowup among the Uighurs in China's Xinjiang Province, but they must be too smart to fall for the CIA's "Let's you and him fight" propositions.

Occams_Razor_Trader's picture

The ultimate goal of war is power and money, think, back in the day you needed to physically take possession of fiat or precious metals, hence the need for boots on the ground and more importantly arms to carry conquered loot. Today the power and control can come in more modern ways and can be controlled by key board. Ground combat is only theater for the unsophisticated and nightly fake news reels.

monad's picture

It bothered me too. Obama or whatever his name is, is completely insane and was before he took up the office he holds. So was the Clintons, Raygun, LBJ, Truman, FDR and TR. In between the rest were just creepy tools.

G Edward Griffin said that when you throw a penny a cat's eyes follow the penny but a dog's eyes look directly at you.

blindman's picture

i will have to verify that in the field.
great g.e.g. quote. happy and great new year to

blindman's picture

some big money is going to be bamboozled real soon
and the bamboozlers are scared retaliation may
cost them their heads and it will.
happy new year.

blindman's picture

before i check the link i say it is all theater
with the elites. they spill other peoples blood, never their own.
obama is auditioning for a future role and his audience
is the world, the u.n., not his backers. sheep's clothing and all that.
rather, quisling to the future world governance body. he gets in
by crook and presides by hook, something like that.
his last month of 8 years he hopes will pad his resume for
bigger and better things, what an ass. i hope he is indicted with
nuttyyahoo and the clintons.
now to the link

Victory_Garden's picture

Big Love and High Appreciation for every single word of the most powerful juice on the planet. Truth!

The resonation with Light and Love is one of mankind's greatest joys. Some, many, bring it to others in greater ways, and, artistic fashions. Writing and dispelling the truth as it naturally resonates in ones heart is a talent, indeed. An Adept in Truth listens to the Guide. Shares freely.

Blessed, are the peacemakers.

S&W, Colt, Ruger, Star, H&R, AK, Glock, Winchester, SKS, etc...etc...etc...etc...etc...etc... and sum of those awesome Russian thingys too!

Happy New Year, Good Heart.


Kirk2NCC1701's picture

ZHers, Tyler, I need your help...

Anyone know why both Firefox and Chrome are blocking my ZH pages? In both cases, it says that the page does not exist, and redirects me to

I have to use Tor to get through. What gives? Thx.

swmnguy's picture

Damn You Putin!

Obviously, you've been visiting RT, Sputnik, SouthFront or some other den of Russian Iniquity like Naked Capitalism.  Or you've been downloading porn or streaming sports and movies off Russian websites.

I'm sure the Washington Post and their Ukie Nazi IT consultants can help you with that.

If I were you, I'd remove Firefox and Chrome, delete all folders and settings, clean and defrag your Registry, boot into Safe Mode and run Spybot and do a full scan with your antivirus, do a System Restore to before this problem started, reinstall Firefox and Chrome and see what happens from there.

Stroke's picture

Reset your computer for an earlier time....(before this started)....You should be fine

Frodobaggins's picture

your browser is being redirected to that site.  Try removing it with Spybot.  

dexter_morgan's picture

Could it have been that guy found dead, other than Seth Rich, that brought the lawsuit against the DNC and would up being found dead shortly after? Can't recall his name at moment. 

indygo55's picture

Shaun Lucas. Even his family wern't allowed to see the autopsy. I'm sure it was nothing.


Occams_Razor_Trader's picture

He was an outsider just pissed off st what they did to Sanders, no real potential to be a "source"- his lawsuit was embarrassing enough for someone to quiet him down- permanently.

Kayman's picture


What price for "anonymous" donors list to Clinton-Guistra ?

DuneCreature's picture

You'll have to find someone who will admit to working at the NSA for the their stolen data price list.

That shouldn't be too tough because the last I heard The NSA is the biggest employer in the state of Maryland.

Live Hard, Some Things Are Just Too Big To Hide Like An Employee Parking Lot The Size Of A Small Latin American Country, Die Free

~ DC v4.0

DuneCreature's picture

The NSA sees it all on the Internet. .. And saves it.

If the NSA tries hard enough they can even jump air gaps and in all probability can even track a thumb drive or burned DVD. .... I know they can do it, but I doubt they go that far as routine data gathering.

The NSA knows all about Killary's bathroom closet server and probably waded around in it all over the drives just sniffing and snooping. The NSA gets copies of every Email that ever hit a port on that computer server so they don't have to hack anything. They 'TAP' they don't 'HACK' as a general rule but they can easily do both. The NSA knows all about HRC and The Satan Foundation money laundering, HSBC funds swirling, backroom arms deals, pizza parties, Hello Kitty training camps and Pay To Pilfer US Department Of State side businesses. ....... All of them.

The NSA has all this and more. .... Give a clerk/analist there a date range and a few IP addresses and he can hand you a stack of printouts of everything that went through those connections by lunch time tomorrow and won't even have to work late. ...

Would you like them in triplicate, bound by dates or IP address and or all notarized as straight out of the database for legal purposes?

Live Hard, Someone Is 'Sandbagging' As We Say On The Billiards Table, Die Free

~ DC v4.0

swmnguy's picture

It's also interesting the way they use private corporations to do things that are black-letter illegal for the Federal Government itself to do.  Edward Snowden worked for Booz-Allen-Hamilton, not the NSA.  The CIA used torturers and killers getting paid by Blackwater/Academi/Xe, Dyncorp, etc.  AT&T is the one actually collecting a large amount of the domestic communication that's being stored.

They have all this data.  They're obviously not manually reading it all; that's not possible.  But they have algorithms sorting it, so if they ever do want it it's there.  If they decide to use the Judicial system to get rid of you or me, they can pull every email or phone call we've ever made, ever web posting, then configure it to match the story they've prepared for us, then get a warrant to make it all lawful, and then we disappear.

DuneCreature's picture

Yes, yes, swmnguy, you are hot on the trail of a number of the problems with all the spying AND jobbing the spying OUT.

The sub contractors are the way the dot gov loses control of the taps and gets itself tapped by Ass Wipes Inc. (The bad guys! .. Well, dot gov are bad guys too. ... Just a lot of them 'think' they are the good guys. .... Dumbasses is what those types are.)

AND there is no accountability. No oversight. No recourse to their fucked up thieving behavior. ... They have the corporate veil, the National Security secrecy veil and the off shore immunity from US laws.

Last I heard Academy or Xi or whatever they are calling themselves these days had moved the business to Dubai. No extradition, no accountability, no FOIA requests etc. etc.

Yep, you're on it. ........ Now we need to convey this stupid situation to those that don't get it.......... Before 'it' gets us!

Live Hard, Paul Revere Needs A Fast Motorcycle And An Big Bad Air Horn, Die Free, Die Free

~ DC v4.0

p.s. swmnguy, can you see my post below that starts, "Mornin', Gentlemen......"?

indygo55's picture

Hold on a minute with the Blackwater guy. Just give this a listen. He sounds candid and believeable in this interview.

swmnguy's picture

Hi, Dune:  Happy New Year!  Yes, I saw the post you reference.  It's a little beyond my comfort level in technical detail.  I can follow what you're saying though.

The trend toward outsourcing and privatization has had huge ramifications in every aspect of our society.  That trend is itself a consequence of the financialization of our entire social system.  Moving the costs of labor off the balance sheet looks great on paper but fundamentally changes the entire situation.  Those on the inside take advantage of the differences, all the while saying there's no real difference; just more "efficiency," as if that's a good thing.

No, there's strategic separation and deniability, exponentially more opportunities for advantages most of us wouldn't even be aware of.

We've been talking about the effects on Intelligence and our civil liberties.  Another example is what has happened to our military since so much of it has been privatized.  Soldiers who used to spend a month fighting and then a month or more rotated out, and then permanently posted to some safe support work after a few combat rotations are now on the front line (such as it is in the guerilla wars the US fights today) all the time without respite.  There aren't potatoes to be peeled or endless days pretending to work on trucks anymore because that's all been outsourced to the highest bidder.  So our guys might spend the same 2 years, but instead of that being a few months actual combat and the rest "down time," now it's all combat.  The human brain and psyche can't handle nonstop horror of that duration.  They're coming back broken, or at least very different from how they left.

Our entire system is eating itself.  We see the surface manifestations, and they're accelerating and multiplying.  Not good for us mortals.

DuneCreature's picture

Thanks for the comeback, swmnguy.

It gets me scratching my head when I post an interesting link and 300 word post and only get a couple of votes.

It's not an affront to my ego or anything like that. It's that I think I'm being shadow banned on ZH. ......... MDB can get 100 votes for his annoying crap and I post something serious that maybe people don't know about and learn a little something from and I get 4 votes

Something is fishy about that.

If I'm only being seen by a dozen readers here because I'm being sandboxed by the NSA (or?) with a few 'like thinkers' I wasting a lot of effort.

Anyway, enough about that. ... I'll work on the sandboxing thing.

Yep, we need to get back to a little more of a human factor in everything we do. .. I happen to know there are some AWESOME tech things we could have if Ass Wipes Inc hadn't stolen the patents and shelved the tech for simple greed. ... They don't want the word getting out but the Internet is a monster for them to completely tame and keep the lid on. But they have to or they are toast..

It's allways about the money, isn't it? (Don't bother answering that, it's just rhetorical.)

Have a great holiday and coming year for you and yours, swmnguy.

Live Hard, Keep Spreading Your Excellent Insights And Thoughts, Bro, Die Free

~ DC v4.0

DuneCreature's picture

Mornin', Gentlemen, SBG, GU, pf and anyone else still left in my little shadow banned 'sand boxed' group on ZH.

Welcome to 2017! .....

This promises to be a very interesting year, wouldn't you say?

Yes, 'they' seem to be turning up the heat on the propaganda, fake news, censorship and controlling the comms. 'They' divide us off into little networks of like node groups. (A node = you, BTW). 'They' like us burning up our resources talking to 'like minded' nodes (people) and not spreading our ideas too far afield. ..... Clever evil bastards, 'they' are.

Who is 'they'? ........... Well, part of 'they' is the NSA. ... So back to the topic at hand:

$$) ~~~ The Dot Gov Hackers And Tappers And Beyond ~~~ ($$

The TAPPING crap at the NSA gets even more interesting. .... They tap and they 'get tapped' by other nation state 'intelligence communities' AND......privateers.

I'm not sure that most of the purple people eaters at NSA even understand that. .. It is a clusterfuck of evesdroppers listening to spies listening to spooks all gathering intel and comms on each other, other governments and businesses and all the people all the world over. ... Then there is dot mil intel which competes with all the rest.

Fusion Centers and COREs and OneNet and Google data centers and then there's the super secret shit that even the people working on the stacks, cable bays and racks don't know what it all does. They just keep the drives swapped out when the little red light comes on and warm up test the back-up generators once a month.

Few understand the HUGE SCOPE of the 'tapping'. .... Several nations have custom built submarines that do nothing but tap underwater fiber and old school copper cable and plant listening devices.

AI AL is tapped in (two way taps with one-way gates, BTW) all over the Internet and secure dot gov nets both.

AL may turn on anyone at any time, even his (its) owners.

Want to see how easy it is to shoot yourself in the foot with 'hacking tools' which are actually self replicating little spy and mischief robots?


That STUXNET shit the Barry unleashed on Iran probably got loose and caused the Fukashima meltdown.

Who the fuck knows, MAYBE WE HACKED OURSELVES and don't even realize it with a software bot 'we' (NSA, CIA or Barry The Bozo WH Hacker Team or some other dot gov someone?) released to hack someone else. ....... Hell, blame it on the Russians anyway. ... Putin likes a good clown show laugh.

Live Hard, When Tapping The Phone Gets Boring You Need Video Feeds And Control Wiring To Tap And Tinker With Too, Die Free

~ DC v4.0

GreatUncle's picture

Agree with you Dune on this bit "They 'TAP' they don't 'HACK' as a general rule but they can easily do both."

Problem is they now don't just monitor and listen they come in and spike your system.

From being a guard dog, monitoring and watching they then become the attack dog and with it the elite suppression.

They know who is guilty ... but do nothing and at that point they can never represent the population again.

Just like my GCHQ, over time they become the enemy in that innoccuous things you do in your life maybe are not politically correct yet they will support the persecution.

Nope fuck em, one shot to the head is fine by me and by the above statement no sympathy for if and when it happens because they chose what they chose to do.

Totally_Disillusioned's picture

Moreover, Julian Assange was clear - emails were not leaked by Russians. Inside tract says patriots within the NSA provided to Assange as part of counter coup to make sure America would learn about Podesta, Clinton and the DNC activities.

NO EVIDENCE of wide scale ballot box tampering or precinct/county servers that were compromised.

It's all FAKE NEWS

swmnguy's picture

And Philadelphia.

That, of course, is why both Democrats and Republicans opposed the manual recounts demanded by the Greens.  In 2004, the Greens and Libertarians demanded manual recounts in Ohio, which were granted.  Those manual recounts, actually looking at the paper ballots, found fraud in Cleveland and election officials went to prison.

The Democrats opposed those recounts in Ohio, even though had John Kerry won Ohio, he would have become President.  Odd, huh?  Sort of like the dog that didn't bark in the Sherlock Holmes story.

No doubt the Democrats have been stealing Green and other 3rd Party votes for a long time, in a lot of jurisdictions.  And the Republicans have probably been doing it too, where they control the local processes.  So the two parties work together because they'd both rather lose an election today than give up their vote-rigging operations for the next election, when it might be close enough that a few thousand stolen votes or disallowed absentee or early or provisional ballots might tip the balance.

The corruption of America is throughgoing and very comprehensive.  It's everything, and everywhere.  The only reason any of us gets any of the things we want is by aligning our interests with those of the Elites.

rahrog's picture

hack em & stack em


Bill of Rights's picture

Ha ha ha TRUMPs the man!!! Happy new year mr president.

blindman's picture

..."Let's talk about that next. What was the discussion that was going on among all of you at this point?

... Well, first of all, I should say that I had to sign a nondisclosure agreement with the FBI when they were interviewing me that I wouldn't tell anyone else that they were doing the interview of me. So I didn't tell anybody, including Kirk and Tom and all of them. I didn't tell any one of them that they were interviewing me, so because I didn't expect to get raided, I didn't expect anybody to get raided. ...

After the raids we tried to get together to discuss this, what was going on, Kirk and Ed [Loomis] and I, but Ed kind of went off on his own, didn't want to talk to anybody. The lawyers were saying once these kinds of things happen, don't talk to anybody; keep it, because then they think you're in a conspiracy or something. Well, this is the time to talk, I mean amongst ourselves, to try to figure out and get a consolidated defense together, which is what Kirk and I did. We got a lawyer at that point.

We were talking about it as what are the options left. We said of course that there was an option -- Kirk called it the nuclear option -- which was to go to the press with all of this and expose all of it, and we discussed that and said, "No, we still need to stay within." We were still traditional employees of the government and wanted to stay inside the government to try to get the government to change its ways to make it, to right itself as opposed to having to force it by going to the Fourth Estate, the public. ...

And what is the overarching thing of what does it do to your lives, because this is the beginning of it, This will go on now for years.


What happened?

Well, they basically destroyed our business and blackballed us for any business in the community or anywhere. We even tried to get together to try to organize an effort to go against Medicare and Medicaid fraud, because that would be outside the classified area, and we thought we could do that, using the techniques we had internally. We had planned to do that, and since we all of us got back together except for Ed -- Ed wasn't there -- and planned this, including Tom Drake -- he was sitting in on it -- they figured that we were all getting together as a conspiracy and that is what we can charge them all with and take them to court and indict them with that. So they planned to indict us on that attempt that we were trying to organize a business.

Every time we tried to do something in business, they sent the FBI after us, so they were trying to put us out of business permanently.

... Is there optimism that Obama is coming in, that maybe all of this is going to go away? And what is the rude awakening?

Well, we had hoped that, of course, that he would have done something, because he's a constitutional lawyer, that he would have started to change this and be open about it and make these corrections in the path that NSA was taking.

But instead he went the other way, and he was starting to indict people, like he tried to indict us. And the first turn of it was the report in July that came out from those IG reports under his administration. He was in in 2009; this was July 2009. And they said, well, all they need is more oversight and more monitoring of the programs to make sure they don't violate anybody's rights. Well, they were already doing it simply by collecting the data, and he knew that as a constitutional lawyer.

All that said to us was that all this stuff that he was saying before election was simply false. I mean, he was just feeding people a line to get them to vote for him, that's all, because he turned around and did exactly the opposite. ...

But Tom Drake was indicted. So when that happens, what do you make of it?

Well, I looked at the stuff that he was indicted for, and that material was clearly marked unclassified, and all they did was draw a line through it and classified that material, and then they charged him with having classified material. It's like framing him; we're going to frame you after the fact, OK? That was a charade.

In fact, others, like [journalist] Jim Bamford, had found the data in open sources and took it into the judge in the court, Judge [Richard] Bennett, and he knew they were framing him. I mean, those people should have been charged with that. That's a felony. They should have been thrown out of court. ...

The other thing about the Obama administration when they come in is they made some decisions early on that they are not going to go after the Bush authorities for what had taken place, because that is old news; they are only looking toward the future.

Right. They're hypocrites.

And at the same point they are going for whistleblowers. What was your take on that?

They're hypocrites. They selectively silence people because they're doing the same criminal activity that the Bush administration was. In fact they're doing more. …

That's why they have to build [the Utah Data Center in] Bluffdale now, because they're collecting so much data on U.S. citizens and everybody else in the world they're going to need more storage. And they just broke ground on Fort Meade, [Md.,] for another 600,000-square-foot facility to store more data. That was done this summer they started that. ...

The revelations of Snowden. Snowden comes out. When you hear about Snowden, what are you thinking? ...

The difference with us is we went out without any documentation. Edward Snowden went out with all the documentation in the world, so when they started publishing all this documentation, the U.S. government could no longer deny it. ...

Snowden studied your cases.

Yes, he did.

And what did he learn?

Well, he looked at them. I think he said that that helped him decide what he had to do, so I think that said he had to take out documentation and he had to leave the country. …

A lot of what Snowden brings out is stuff that you were talking about all the way through. Is there anything new in what Snowden has revealed?

The extent to which the agreements are involved, the extent to which commercial activities, specifics more than anything else, the specifics of it. I mean, we knew this activity was going on and said so, but we didn't have the specifics that he did. He came out with documentation, so that made it here are the specifics of what they're doing, and so it was clarifying everything and making it irrefutable. ...

You worked in the NSA for quite a few years. You were an important person there, pushing them into the modern age. You look back at the NSA now, and what do you think?

I think the place needs a total lobotomy. I think they need to scrap it and start again, get rid of those people who are in it, because they were a part of this process and agreed to it. Take the workforce, take them and move them to someplace else, or get rid of the management, move them somewhere else, put them in isolation away from everything so they can't infect that process, and reconstruct the whole business.

They need to stop doing this kind of illegal activity and focus in on really the meaningful jobs of foreign intelligence that they were charged to do. ...

What a lot of people in the government will say is that you don't understand; we're still at war. Remember we lost 3,000 people on 9/11. This is a very important program. It has saved thousands of lives, as Cheney said at one point. There are multiple plots that have been stopped because of this program. You've got to be very careful about what you wish for, because if you do, you might have another attack, and you might have blood on your hands. What is your reaction to this question about the effectiveness of what all this has been?

First of all, they like to lump it in as one program and say you can't cancel the program. That's false to begin with. It's multiple programs. The one program that dealt with domestic spying was called Stellar Wind. They had the other foreign ones; you mentioned the names. There were other names that were listed in the PRISM program that was dealing with foreign intelligence. There were a whole bunch of those programs, not just one.

So the point is you stop the intelligence, the domestic intelligence program, period. U.S.-to-U.S. communications are not a part of it. Eliminate them. They're irrelevant to anything that is going on. All the terrorists would have been caught by the process that we put in place for ThinThread, which was looking and focusing in on the groups of individuals that we already had identified and anybody in close proximity to them in the social graph, plus anybody -- the other simple rules like anybody that was looking at jihadi advocating sites over and over again would imply that they might be becoming radicalized, so you would put them into that zone of suspicion, too.

That would get them all, and you didn't have to do the collection of all this other data that requires all that storage, transport of information to the storage, maintenance of it, interrogation programs, all of that added expense that they are incurring as a part of it over the last 10 years. You wouldn't have any of that, and you would still -- you would actually reduce the problem and focus it down for the analysts on meaningful information, and they would actually succeed, instead of failing like they're doing now, because they're taking in too much data and making themselves dysfunctional by that. ...

This problem of the haystacks, how big a problem is that? Is that what we've done, is we've created a situation where the haystacks are bigger, and it's almost impossible to find?

Well, what it simply means is if you use the traditional argument they say we're trying to find a needle in the haystack, it doesn't help to make the haystack orders of magnitude larger, because it makes orders of magnitude more difficult to find that needle in that haystack.

And is that what they've done?

That's what they've done. And now they're looking at things like game playing and things like people doing that. I mean, this is ridiculous. How relevant is that to anything?

But they say they're computers, and in Utah they're going to be able to take all this stored data, and they're going to be able to go through all of it, and they're going to be able to connect the dots. Connect the dots -- that's what everybody wanted them to do after 9/11.

See, that's always been possible. Before 9/11 we were doing that. That was already happening. We already had that program. That wasn't an issue at all. That's why we should have picked this out from the beginning. We should have implemented it, the ThinThread, connect-the-dots program on everything in the world, but we didn't. That's why we failed. It wasn't a matter of not having the program; it was a matter of not implementing the program we had.

How disappointed are you, in the end?

It's disgusting that all those people had to die. That's disgusting that our government did that. They traded the security of the people of the United States for money. That's disgusting."
from link b.b.

blindman's picture

he explains here, if you have not read and thought about it,
that the nsa has been run over by private interests, for money,
and nothing is secure, no information. so, all this talk of
hacking is a pure waste of time as intended. a distraction
and a useless tangent meant to create the kind of fear
and emotion that will enrage segments of the population
to abandon their judgment and act horribly and against their
own interests. this is how they do mind and behavior control
to steal your money and your life right out from
under you. misdirection, sadly.
you can also safely assume they knew all about 9/11
well before and were complicit and instrumental. the motive,
'money' and petroleum distribution and all that surrounds
fear, they use it as a motivational tool because
it happens to work on misdirected and isolated populations.

DuneCreature's picture

blindman, you are one of the persons here that has a clue, BTW.

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overmedicatedundersexed's picture

an expert not talking the obuma did that happen?