Lavrov Vs. McCain: Is Russia An Enemy?

Tyler Durden's picture

Via Patrick Buchanan of,

The founding fathers of the Munich Security Conference, said John McCain, would be “be alarmed by the turning away from universal values and toward old ties of blood, and race, and sectarianism.”

McCain was followed by Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov who called for a “post-West world order.” Russia has “immense potential” for that said Lavrov, “we’re open for that inasmuch as the U.S. is open.”

Now McCain is not wrong. Nationalism is an idea whose time has come again. Those “old ties of blood, and race, and sectarianism” do seem everywhere ascendant. But that is a reality we must recognize and deal with. Deploring it will not make it go away.

But what are these “universal values” McCain is talking about?

Democracy? The free elections in India gave power to Hindu nationalists. In Palestine, Hamas. In Lebanon, Hezbollah. In Egypt, the Muslim Brotherhood, then overthrown in a military coup welcomed by the world’s oldest and greatest democracy. Have we forgotten it was a democratically elected government we helped to overthrow in Kiev?

Democracy is a bus you get off when it reaches your stop, says Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, autocrat of Ankara, a NATO ally.

Is freedom of religion a “universal value”?

Preach or proselytize for Christianity in much of the Islamic world and you are a candidate for martyrdom. Practice freedom of speech in Xi Jinping’s China and you can wind up in a cell.

As for the Western belief in the equality of all voluntary sexual relations, in some African and Muslim countries, homosexuals are beheaded and adulterers stoned to death.

In Nuristan Province in U.S.-liberated Afghanistan this month, an armed mob of 300 besieged a jail, shot three cops and dragged out an 18-year-old woman who had eloped with her lover to escape an arranged marriage. Beaten by relatives, the girl was shot by an older brother with a hunting rifle and by a younger brother with his AK-47.

Afghan family values.

Her lover was turned over to the husband. An “honor killing,” and, like suicide bombings, not uncommon in a world where many see such actions as commendable in the sight of Allah.

McCain calls himself an “unapologetic believer in the West” who refuses “to accept that our values are morally equivalent to those of our adversaries.”

Lavrov seemed to be saying this:

Reality requires us here in Munich to recognize that, in the new struggle for the world, Russia and the U.S. are natural allies not natural enemies. Though we may quarrel over Crimea and the Donbass, we are in the same boat. Either we sail together, or sink together.

Does the foreign minister not have a point?

Unlike the Cold War, Moscow does not command a world empire. Though a nuclear superpower still, she is a nation whose GDP is that of Spain and whose population of fewer than 150 million is shrinking. And Russia threatens no U.S. vital interest.

Where America is besieged by millions of illegal immigrants crossing from Mexico, Russia faces to her south 1.3 billion Chinese looking hungrily at resource-rich Siberia and Russia’s Far East.

The China that is pushing America and its allies out of the East and South China Seas is also building a new Silk Road through former Russian and Soviet provinces in Central Asia. With an estimated 16 million Muslims, Russia is threatened by the same terrorists, and is far closer to the Middle East, the source of Sunni terror.

Is Putin’s Russia an enemy, as McCain seems to believe?

Before we can answer that question, we need to know what the new world struggle is about, who the antagonists are, and what the threats are to us.

If we believe the struggle is for “global democracy” and “human rights,” then that may put Putin on the other side. But how then can we be allies of President el-Sissi of Egypt and Erdogan of Turkey, and the kings, emirs and sultans of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait and Oman?

But if the new world struggle is about defending ourselves and our civilization, Russia would appear to be not only a natural ally, but a more critical and powerful one than that crowd in Kiev.

In August 1914, Europe plunged into a 50-month bloodbath over an assassinated archduke. In 1939, Britain and France declared war to keep Poland from having to give up a Prussian port, Danzig, taken from Germany under the duress of a starvation blockade in 1919 and in clear violation of Woodrow Wilson’s Fourteen Points and the Danzigers’ right of self-determination. In the two wars, 50 million to 100 million died.

Today, the United States is confronting Russia, a huge and natural ally, over a peninsula that had belonged to her since the 18th century and is 5,000 miles from the United States.

“We have immense potential that has yet to be tapped into,” volunteered Lavrov. But to deal, we must have “mutual respect.”

Hopefully, President Trump will sound out the Russians, and tune out the Beltway hawks.

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chunga's picture

I like this Lavrov.

Uncertain T's picture

When one considers the situation, as it unfolded, in Ukraine.... Lavrov and Putin seemed the voices of reason while Kerry, Obama, and Powers seemed the voices of deceit. 

Uncertain T's picture

I don't recall Justice Ginsburg involved with Ukraine... but you must know something I don't. 


E.F. Mutton's picture

She flew secret combat missions there with Brian Williams back in the 90's

Uncle Skid's picture

She also use to be on the old tv show "Laugh In".  I know.  I saw her.

fleur de lis's picture

Ginsburg is a Marxist, feminist, crotchety old bag who falls asleep during procedings and conks out on the desk.

She should have been forcibly admitted to a nursing home for crazy old people long ago.

And she should have had geriatric pest John McCain as a room mate.

They would kill each other and save the residential expences.




Seek_Truth's picture

McCain is the enemy- a traitor to the US Constitution.

A fool.

A blithering dirtbag.

A senile warmonger that needs to be hung for treason.

beemasters's picture

Wikileaks: Close Hillary Clinton friend Lynn Forester de Rothschild (Economist publisher) is a trustee of the Saudi funded John McCain Institute.

Let's see how deep the rabbit hole will go on this one...

J S Bach's picture

There is no question as to who the "evil" side is in our world at the present time.  Russia today is not the Soviet menace it was 60 years ago.  One merely has to look at who controls which country to determine its level of "evil".  America today is infested with Zionists, Financiers and Globalists.  And although they are not entirely free of the shackles of these International Usurers, Russia has made strides to free itself and return to its Christian foundations.  Who has been traipsing around the world since the end of the Cold War enforcing their will by spreading death and destruction upon innocent peoples?  Russia or America?  Therein lies your answer.

johngaltfla's picture

I'll take Lavrov over the Manchurian Psycho from Arizona all day long.

At least we know Lavrov isn't a traitor and doesn't cavort with Islamist terrorists.

BarkingCat's picture

Lavrov hasn't killed dozens of American serviceman.

bh2's picture

Lavrov, as usual, gets to the heart of the matter: "Either we sail together, or sink together."

Unfortunately, this sage observation (echoing Franklin amid the crisis of another age) probably went right over McCain's head. He's been stuck in the Cold War mentality for so long he's become scrlorotic in his thinking.

It is truly amazing that the left sides with Islam against any nations still dominantly Christian, including their own, even as Islam promotes barbaric values the left claims to abhor. They are some very confused people. And therefore dangerous.

East Indian's picture

"Soviet menace it was 60 years ago"


60 years ago. That makes it 1955. Let us see how much a menace the USSR was then. 

Stalin proclaimed as early as 1935 that Russian Revolution would not be exported. "Revolution in one country". 

In 1954, after Stalin's death, USSR offered to join the NATO. 

All the East European countries that the USSR overran were "allotted" to the USSR by FDR, in a well known understanding; the USSR was also "entitled" to conquer and keep one- fourth of Germany. 

It was the US which consolidated the remaining three- fourth of Germany (French, British and American zones) into FRG; it was the US that refused to take USSR into NATO; it was the US that refused to give up atom bombs, and dreamed of flying its flag on Kremlin...


It was the Trotskyite USSR that was a menace to the world of its time. And it is known who sponsored that revolution of Nov 1917...

BabaLooey's picture

Lavrov = Joe Montana

McCain = Jim Ninowski

Bastiat's picture

"She flew secret combat missions there with Brian Williams back in the 90's"

She landed under sniper fire--you should have seen the old bird duck and scoot.

MFL5591's picture

Get rid of McCain trhe man is out of his goddamn mind!

GUS100CORRINA's picture

If indeed Ginsburg will be gone very soon, the TRUMP TEAM will be dancing on the table and singing "Ding Dong The Witch is Dead."


E.F. Mutton's picture

Old Bolsheviks like Ginsburg never die, they just keep Marxin' On...


Idaho potato head's picture

"seemed"? How about unequivocally.

Robert Trip's picture

"I like this Lavrov."

Well, pack your bags and fuck off.

Have a good time in Commie Land.

chunga's picture

No, I'm not packing my bags or fucking off, and I'm not a commie.

This Russia hysteria has been a fake news topic for a while and Lavrov's conduct has been impressive. A lot more impressive than McCain's so fuck you buddy.

Is-Be's picture

I have no Idea what blood flows in your veins, xenophobe,But I do know what flows in mine.

We were in Eurasia before the last ice age. Our blood bond is stronger than your economic loyalties. I may not speak his language, but I know him to be my brother.

My love for My People will, of cause, be twisted into " hate speach" by the "Masters of the Universe".

To them I say Frosch mine Drosch.

moorewasthebestbond's picture

Lavrov probably drove a bomber or a submarine when you were in grade school.


A solider respects another soldier (except in the Ukraine meatgrinder).

jez's picture

"Lavrov probably drove a bomber or a submarine when you were in grade school."


Nope. Career diplomat, straight from university.


And you don't "drive" bombers or subs.


First-class post, apart from that.



BarkingCat's picture

Commie land? Is he going to San Fagcisco?

Oldwood's picture

Those speaking irrefutable undeniable truth in a coherent and logical way are the true threat and WILL be eliminated.

IridiumRebel's picture

Wrong question.
Is McCain an enemy?

Answer: YES.

Chupacabra-322's picture

Real question should be is John McCain Clinically Criminally Insane? We know he's Irrefutably a War Criminal Treasonous Pure Evil Psychopath. So, I guess the answer to my first question is rechtorical.

chunga's picture
McCain Cuts Off Questions About $1M Saudi Donation To McCain Institute

Chupacabra-322's picture

Caught that. "Johnny Wetstart" should definitely be in the frontline for some "Wetwork" being doing to him.

AllTimeWhys's picture

McCain needs to be dropped from a plane into Iran. While we're at it, let's drop them Graham as well.

chunga's picture

The talk about "Russia must give back Crimea" is not good, but I digress.

BabaLooey's picture

When I saw the movie "Shooter" - Ned Beatty's character I will bet dollars to donuts was crafted from McCrazy's profile.

I love watching the last scene, where he, whisperGlover and a security fuck...........get it by Bob Lee Swagger

..and here it is.............

Just put McCain in there............happy ending!

BustainMovealota's picture

McCain is full of shit.  That motherfucker wouldn't let the non-profit org use his name without him getting a kick back.  Stop voting this worthless fuck into office!!!

chunga's picture

A few ZH'ers from AZ have weighed in that there is like a gerrymandering thing where a few areas are locked in for him and that's how he stays in officxe.

He is so bad I think he makes all the red team look bad by letting him stay on these committees. The rules on that involve seniority and vague party rules. The others should kick him off or they suck too. 

Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Actions speaking louder than "words"...

Since time and memorial!

alexcojones's picture

Funny how I respect the Russkies more than my own Gov.

Includes the prez


Vegetius's picture

Good summation of where we all stand. Personally, I think that the USA and Russia have little to come to blows over and many reasons to work together. Of course, the Hillary clones will all label such opinions as from Putin lovers, but that is a risible claim we have little choice and a narrowing amount of room to maneuver.  

Bavarian's picture

Lavrov continues to be one of the few adults at the table. 

McCain has never known such status.  He's a warmonger through and through, nothing less. 

WTFUD's picture

It's almost always a little guy with an inferiority complex that stirs the pot.

Bemused Observer's picture

You know, it has occurred to me that our nutjobs are very similar to their nutjobs, and that they both have more in common with each other than either does with their own 'home teams'.

If each side were to decide to eliminate said nutjobs, I think we and the Russians would get along swell. They are our natural allies, even if both sides are reluctant to admit it.

And we blew an historic opportunity after the fall of the USSR...history will NOT be kind to us for our shortsightedness. USA/Russia relations will have its own chapter in history books of the future...with plenty of "What the FUCK were they thinking?"

WTFUD's picture

So are you pitting/equating the Tyranny of Uncle Spam with that of Russia?

The US Government(s) are a PLAGUE on Mankind.

Volkodav's picture

all the nutjobs are yours


mendigo's picture

Well in fairness, Russia never nuked another country.

Themselves but not another.

BarkingCat's picture

If you are referring to Chernobyl then that accident occured in the Ukraine Republic of the Soviet Union.

InTylerWeTrust's picture

McCain and his lapdog Lindsay Graham are enemies of the state.