Are U.S.-Saudi Relations Turning Sour?

Tyler Durden's picture

Authored by Defense & Foreign Affairs' Gregory Copley via,

Time will tell, but cries of victory in Washington by Saudi Arabian Deputy Crown Prince and Defense Minister Mohammed bin Salman seemed hollow and perhaps even apocryphal. He needed some sign of success when he emerged from his White House meeting with U.S. Pres. Donald Trump on March 14, 2017: Saudi Arabia is running out of options and is pushing its traditional allies - some of which are not happy with it - to show solidarity, particularly over the wars in Yemen, Iraq, Syria, and Libya. And at a time when the Kingdom’s economic fortunes are delicate and worsening, presaging internal political pressures.

Prince Mohammed seemed to want to sweep Pres. Trump into the Saudi camp - and to speak for all Muslims and how the Trump Administration would be good for them — but he was, in fact anxious to exorcise the President’s apparently blossoming friendship with Egyptian Pres. Abdul Fattah al-Sisi, now Prince Mohammed’s nemesis. So the Saudi-Egyptian animosity extended to Washington as it became clear that the new U.S. Administration would not automatically continue any Middle Eastern policies of the former U.S. Administration.

The stakes are of global significance to the U.S., but if Washington had to choose, it would choose the geopolitical (Mediterranean-Suez-Red Sea) and cultural weight of Egypt.

Saudi Arabia’s recent rivalry with Egypt — or, rather, the falling out between Saudi Deputy Crown Prince Mohamed and Egyptian Pres. al-Sisi — has meant that the government of each state has attempted to sway the U.S. to its side, but with Washington giving away little as to its preference. It does not wish to fully alienate Saudi Arabia at this stage, or its neighbor and fellow-Wahhabist state, Qatar, but Egypt’s strategic position cannot be ignored. 

Thus Saudi Prince Mohammed bin Salman met with U.S. Pres. Donald Trump on March 14, 2017, and claimed that the meeting was “an historic turning point” in U.S.-Saudi relations. But White House sources told Defense & Foreign Affairs that it was nothing of the kind, and that - as Pres. Trump’s body language during the meetings showed - he did not feel any chemistry with the young Saudi official. Despite this, the Prince authorized a post-meeting statement which said that Donald Trump was “a true friend of Muslims who will serve the Muslim world in an unimaginable manner”, and that the meeting was “a huge success” and an “historic turning point in bilateral relations the two countries”.

Official White House statements were cool. The Trump team was unimpressed by the Deputy Crown Prince. On the other side, Pres. Trump’s first action on January 23, 2017 (his first day in office), was to call Egyptian Pres. al-Sisi, and positive comments ensued from both sides. Pres. al-Sisi had visited Mr. Trump before Mr. Trump took office, and would meet him again during an official visit to Washington on April 1-4, 2017. Significantly, both the Saudi and Egyptian leaderships had turned their backs on the former U.S. Administration of Pres. Barrack Obama, but for different reasons. Now, the Trump Administration was attempting to determine what was likely to be the most expedient U.S. strategy for the region going forward, and being coerced by Saudi Arabia (and Turkey and the UAE) into a wider conflict in Yemen and Syria/Iraq was not seen as beneficial.

But Prince Mohammed had already committed Saudi Arabia to a path from which it was difficult to retire gracefully. As a result, Riyadh was pushing its erstwhile friends deeper into a commitment to fight its wars with it, or for it. Prince Mohmamed continues to demand that Pakistan enter the conflict in Yemen, despite the fact that this was being promoted by Riyadh as a war against the Shi’a sect of Islam (and therefore against Iran), while Pakistan has a significant (20 percent plus) Shi’a minority. To enter the war in Yemen would, for Pakistan, possibly precipitate civil war at home. And yet Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, who has benefitted from his long friendship with Saudi Arabia, has difficulty now in rejecting the demands of Riyadh.

Thus, not only in Washington, but in other corridors of power, Saudi Arabia’s demands for support are not being well received, and are perceived as shrill and desperate. Increasingly, Washington, in particular, sees Saudi Arabia, Turkey, and Qatar at an opposing side in the wars against DI’ISH (Islamic State) as well as in Yemen and Libya. Yemen has already reverted, essentially, to at least its former two-state identities. 

Pakistan, too, has to consider its longtime relations with Iran, which Saudi Arabia has now pledged itself to destroy.

Indeed, there is a gradual dawning, even in Washington, that, geopolitically, Iran is more important than Saudi Arabia, despite the reality that the Iranian clerics — who came to power in 1979 because of the active and deliberate steps of then-U.S. Pres. Jimmy Carter — have proven to be the major obstacle to the restoration of a stable Iranian strategic position, and the question of Iranian nuclear weapons is politically (although perhaps not militarily) vexing for the U.S.

Washington is now re-examining how well U.S. Pres. Richard Nixon (1969-74) was able to balance Iran and Saudi Arabia. But, then, he was able to deal with the Shah of Iran and Foreign Minister Ardeshir Zahedi on the one hand, and King Faisal bin ‘Abd al-’Aziz al Sa’ud (1964- 75) on the other. In all this, whither Russia and the People’s Republic of China, The Red Sea, Persian Gulf, and the Levant are very much in play, as is Turkey.

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Looney's picture


The Crown Prince’s robe is reversible. It is BROWN to hide his shitty skidmarks. I think?  ;-)


HowdyDoody's picture

Two state sponsors of terror falling out? What's not to like.

GUS100CORRINA's picture

Interesting headline ...

One of the most interesting events yet to come as prophesied in the Bible is Iranian/Saudi conflict. 

The Battle: Sunnis versus Shiites because this is Islam's ancient schism

xythras's picture
xythras (not verified) GUS100CORRINA Mar 21, 2017 4:15 PM

Let's hope so. Maybe some leaks will surface that we spied on saudis also, and all this bromance can go to hell.

One can only hope. Meanwhile,

VIDEO: Edward Snowden Talks Russia, “Spy” Microwaves and Web Security at Tech Conference


GUS100CORRINA's picture

Another more interesting aspect of this situation is how both the US and CHINA now have military bases of operations in Saudi Arabia.

small axe's picture

abandoning these pig fuckers and letting them face judgment would be a giant step forward.

SmedleyButlersGhost's picture

Just for accuracy's sake - the order of preference is : they fuck little boys, donkeys and the occasional goat.  Failing to find any of those available - the public jerk off   in absolute desperation, their wife. No pigs.  

HowdyDoody's picture

Which is worse?
<-- Fucking goats
<-- Fucking little boys

TAALR Swift's picture

The Quran will not allow them to have sex with pigs.

LetThemEatRand's picture

I guess Trump's decision to go forward with a huge arms deal for the Kingdom (that Obama had blocked) means relations are cooling?  Maybe in opposite world.

This author actually talks about Trump's body language as a key piece of evidence for his thesis that relations are cooling, and he doesn't mention the controversial arms deal.  Agenda much?

fbazzrea's picture

it might be that Trump knows something we don't. sell them weapons w/back doors & US parts/maintenance contracts. get the cash. get some jobs and then claim "parts shortages" at inopportune times for the chieftains, knowing someone else will sell them weapons if we don't. in that scenario, we would lose control completely. this way, we're on the inside and can just turn off the key if necessary.

i dunno... just lots of ways to look at things. wish i knew everything Trump knew. would be a whole lot easier to drive from the back seat.

daveO's picture

It's not that hard. The MIC needs the biz.

DirtySanchez's picture

These amoral sand niggers deserve everything that's about to come at them.....

The Caliiphate of Iran.

IranContra's picture

You nean Rothschild's Iranian Kingdom? No.

Trump is having his way with Iran.

Russians are now telling Iranian troops (and other Shiite pro-Iranian militias/troops such as Afghans) to leave Syria.

Russia, Saudi Arabis, and Turkey are cooperating with the US on the goal of containing Iran.

(based on Izvestia, couldn't find an English source)

IranContra's picture

Iran is the common enemy of Trump and Saudi, no doubt about it.

Here are some good articles that may explain why the President and the generals are so focused on Iran in close collaboration with Saudi.

Iran-Loyal Iraqi Military Gave Mosul to ISIS

Iran's Troops in Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon

ISIS: Iran’s Instrument for Regional Hegemony

Rothschild's Hard Work in Iran

The media, including "open-minded" websites have brainwashed all Americans, Left, Right and Center, to believe that Iran is a harmless, righteous victim, in preparation for Obama's wedding with Iran which put Iran right at America's throat.

However, Iranians already occupy Iraq, and have subverted Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, Sudan and Somalia (the ban list), and are attempting to take Saudi Arabia. So much US interests are being viciously attacked by Iran.

Trump promised not to start wars of aggression. He never said that he will not defend America's interests when attacked.

NAV's picture

The media has brainwashed Americans that Iran is innocent?

My heavens, did you just arrive from a planet far away; every propaganda and news outlet that can be purchased by the owners of the currency has made Iran the greatest threat ever to America. Never mind that it isn't true.

As for "Trump promised not to start wars of aggression, it is not Iran that is destroying the Middle East through regime-change efforts. As Tan Dalyell, a Labour party deputy known as "Father of the House" in Britian because he was the longest-serving Member of Parliament said: "A Jewish cabal have taken over the government in the United States..." And directs its foreign policy. And it was Senator Ernest Hollings in Washington who declared that Iraq was invaded to "secure Israel" and that "everybody" knows it.

Stated flatly, it is the U.S. that has waged Bosnia (1994-5), Serbia (1999), Afghanistan (2001-), Iraq (2003-), Libya (2011, and Syria 2014-), "while raining down drone strikes from Pakistan to Yemen to North Africa." Gary Leupp of The Strategic Culture Foundation continues: "These wars-based-on-lies have produced hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths, millions of refugees and ongoing catastrophe throughout the 'Greater Middle East.' There is no understating their evil."

And now the US is targeting Iran, for Israel. But first must come the lies...

Perhaps, since you only recently arrived on Planet Earth, you do not recall Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu's crude visual aid poster covered by every media outlet in the U.S. to demonstrate that Iran either already had or very shortly would have a nuclear weapon to threaten Israel. Few articles in the news corrected this propaganda with the truth: Iran does not have nor is it very likely to develop a nuclear weapon in the near future.

The tragedy is that the United States government has chosen the Jews as the chosen people.

IranContra's picture

You must at least admit that Obama's deal with Iran was well-prepared for by the mass media. Liberals love and defend Iran. Just ask one. Even Netanyahu's personal pleading with Congress opposing the deal with Iran made no difference. Rothschild, Congress, and the American people agreed that Iran is good, and the deal with Iran is good. Even AIPAC must have supported the deal, otherwise, it wouldn't have had so much support in Congress.

Obama is so sinister that nothing he did can be trusted, and he invested so much into a bond with Iran against the Arabs. Why aren't you suspicious of Obama's policy decision?

mary mary's picture

If you are not against Iran but you think Iran is "genociding" Arabs, that sounds to me like you are against Iran. 

But that just leaves a vacuum.  It's who we are FOR that matters.  Are you FOR anybody in the Middle East?  Who?

mary mary's picture

There you go again.  "I hate Iran.  I hate Iran."  Shove it.

IranContra's picture

I don't hate Iran. I hate its troops genociding Arabs in Iraq and Syria, and its constant attempts to take Yemen and Saudi Arabia.

I have not yet seen the President's evidence that Iran is the #1 sponsor of real (not staged) terrorism, but I give him the benefit of the doubt. Unlike Bernie Sanders, I don't see the President as a pathological liar. His words and actions make sense to me.

mary mary's picture

I thought Saddam Hussein started a war against Iran (and USA helped him).  If I were Iran, I would definitely want a safer border (against Iraq), and therefore, I would want Shiites next to me.

There are too many Arabs for "genocide" of them to be plausible.

IranContra's picture

Iran started the war with countless attacks all across the border. Iran occupied Iraqi territories and a lot of their oil is from there.

You should stop believing the old fake media stories.

EvilScientist's picture

Are you out of your mind? Who was killing the shiite minority in Bahrain? Saudi troops. And which minority is opressed/killed in saudi arabia? Shia. All of them arabs. So go figure who likes to be genocidal: Crazy wahabi arabs. They kill whomever they want: means everybody that is not wahabi.

(sarcsam on) Hope they' ll kill you too than you can spew less bullshit! (sarcasm off)

WTFUD's picture

You remind me of a film, titled, 'Brother From Another Planet'.

The Military Academies in the UK are now training an influx of DAESH Saudi sponsored Jihadi's to do their bidding going forward. They are a cowardly despicable motley crew of godless wretches.

Should President Trump turn his back on the House of Saudom, he's a businessman who see's which way the wind's blowing, then only the Mossad & the rotten English can delay the inevitable decline in their influence in the Region.

Expect major changes from within when the Regime is unable to subsidise the populace AND pump $billions into Extremist SUNNI Militias.

HowdyDoody's picture

The Brits have a lot of experience training terrorists - Iraq, Libya, Syria, Ukraine.

_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

I looked up apocryphal

<- yes

<- no

Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Willy Brother...

Make a "wish" on the probability of our simultaneously hitting the return key on this one!!!!

My wish...

I wish that every motherfucker that works for the Federal Government gets a visit from the "Grim Reaper" that will kill everything on Pennsylvania, Constitution Ave, Langley Virginia and the Pentagon!

WillyGroper's picture

i was poopoo'd for celebrating yesterday on 1 down.

my reason is justified more than most folks on a very personal level.  imo a lie would not be better than my reason for glee...& it was damn sure an uplifting day for me.

the lengths these criminal parasite predators are going to, tells me the magnitude of this whole shitshow is going to leave even the awakened bewildered on an immeasurable scale.

i think we'd all like it to move much faster to bring the madness to an end...perhaps drip drip drip is better, wtfk?

one thing fur shur, it's being revealed...perhaps Wikileaks is gonna force the whole hand in due time.

i think Clif High is correct in saying we're going to see high level resignations, rodents fleeing & suicides if not downright murder, as they've let this seething go on far too long for both reasons right & wrong.

will they amp up the power on the cell tower infrastructure and cook us alive to save their skins? 

no one knows how this 52 skiddoo will play's exhilarating & frightening at the same time.

if only we could stay anchored at 7.83Hz.

Son of Captain Nemo's picture

Willy, after the "9/11 Commission Whitewash" was delivered to the lemmings in 2004 and subsequently the FOIA requests which poured in regarding the "facts" especially an absent 47 story building that was never mentioned in the government(s) version of the event(s), the American people should have burned the Nation's Capital and all the people in it to the ground within 2 years!

Now here we are 4 more conflict(s) in the Middle East and Eastern Europe on top of the two that started it with "19 hijackers with box cutters"!

Whatever we weren't thinking all those years ago is still with us... Which is why I believe the Russian Federation, PRC and Iran will do the honors FOR Washington D.C. IN Washington D.C. when they have collectively been pushed into what was already untenable 3 years ago!

The American people got what is coming to them for action(s) they refuse to take in holding those responsible that gave them the pretext of 9/11, Patriot Act(s) and NDAA that they CLEARLY WILL NEVER RESPOND TO until the credit cards, pension(s), welfare and social security checks all go dry!

WillyGroper's picture

sadly, it's going to take missing 9 meals for most of the country.

their rationalization being no such evil could exist...because "they" wouldn't do such a thing.

19 hahahahaha...missiles & holographic images.

all that hair on fire is not going to smell good.

dizzyfingers's picture

It seems very strange to have attacked New York when there was Washington D.C. I've always wondered...

Son of Captain Nemo's picture

If you are referring to 9/11 Washington was "attacked" or should I say Arlington "across the street" and the personnel responsible for investigating Don Rumsfeld's announcement the day before just happen to be the one(s) that went "bye" "bye" that day after!... (

NAV's picture

This and every Saudi decision, of course, depends on the position of Israel.

Below is one call that every key politician in Congress and the White House can ignore at his peril - the summons to AIPAC, the real controller of American policy. These pols just can’t get enough of subservience to their master:

Pence, Nikki Haley to Address Upcoming AIPAC Conference … 

“US political leaders Vice President Mike Pence, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Speaker of the House of Representatives Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), and Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley will all speak at the March 26-28 convention in Washington, DC…”

moorewasthebestbond's picture

Trump full AIPAC speech March 2016:


Draw your own conclusions.

NAV's picture

ANd it was horrible. Surely a man can't draw these conclusions and be President of the United States. If so, Trump is going to be a huge failure. Because Israel is poison. If you want to take poison, you don't survive. He can't govern and give them this much.

just the tip's picture

just to be disagreeable, i think a poison pill would be a better analogy.  introducing the pill has no effect, until you don't do as told.  but all the while, you just keep doing yourself harm.

IranContra's picture

Those who voted for Trump really misunderstood him. He never expressed hate for Arabs or Muslims. He simply said that wants to keep out bad Muslims.

After the inauguration, Trump mentioned a good UAE friend at a press conference, he nodded to Koran reading at a prayer service, and recently he made big business openings with Saudi Arabia that will create millions of American jobs.

When will you guys get it? Trump wants what's good for America, and he's not a racist.

Some Jews hate Arabs, Iranians hate Arabs. Racists hate Arabs. Banksters want to exterminate Arabs. Obama and Hillary exterminated Arabs.

But Trump has a multi-cultural family and he doesn't hate Arabs.

Get over it, and stand behind the president instead of stabbing him in the back and giving the psycho liberals ammunition for their battle against Trump.

Jayda1850's picture

Trump is the one doing the backstabbing. We are merely pointing out that fact.

IranContra's picture

And how is Trump doing the backstabbing? Obama shared the sentiments of this article that Iran is more important, and told Iran that they can grab any Arab country they want, starting with Iraq. They already grabbed a few more (hence the ban list). Trump is simply reversing that chaos.

mary mary's picture

I agree.  Business is business.  I don't care where legal immigrants come from.  A man is a man.  Many honest Muslims.

However, foreign governments which knowingly send criminals, including illegal immigrants, to the USA, are enemies of Americans. 

I think the current ruling royal families of the Gulf States are no more Muslim than the Comet Pizza customers are Christian.  I think those ruling families are knowingly hurting both Muslims there and taxpayers here to enrich themselves.  I think the Saads are the worst kind of criminals for encouraging Americans to take out Assad, Gaddafy, Hussein, and the leadership of Iran.  They are not cabable of friendship, and are not to be trusted.

IranContra's picture

It's a liberal myth that Saudis have a lobby and can tell Americans what to do. Saudis obey America usually. Except when Obama ordered them to support ISIS, they said no. And then Obama said: You want a free ride? What a creep!

mary mary's picture

Well, I agree that Obama proved himself to be a creep.  But I think Saudis do have a lobby.  Everyone with lots of money has a lobby.  As for Obama ordering Saudis to support ISIS, and them saying no, I never heard that before.

IranContra's picture

Obamanites and luciferians spread the rumor that Saudi supported ISIS. The opposite is true.

Saudi: No, Obama, we are not "free riders"

Obama accused Saudi of being free riders when they refused to give him money for ISIS.

Instead, Saudis supported the groups that are fighting against ISIS.

"Ties between old allies the United States and Saudi Arabia, the top oil exporter, have been bumpy since the 2011 Arab uprisings when Riyadh faulted Washington for not doing more to stop the ousting of Egypt's president Hosni Mubarak.

Riyadh has since watched in alarm as Obama forged a deal with its top regional foe Iran"

PleasedToMeatYou's picture

I admire the humility and practicality with which the Saudi Royalty brings their table cloths around with themselves everywhere they go.  They're all set for a picnic, table-for-two, an ass rape, or whatever opportunities may present.  Since many of our politicians behave similarly, it is a shame that they are not as practically prepared as our good friends from the dry kingdom. 

Shropshire Lad's picture

A first class review by Mr Copley -- Thank you.