"Stinging Defeat For Trump": House Delays Health Care Vote On Doubts It Can Pass

Tyler Durden's picture

Summary of the chaotic day's key events:

  • GOP House leaders delayed their planned vote Thursday to repeal and replace "Obamacare," which as AP put it was a "stinging defeat" for Paul Ryan and President Trump in their first major legislative test.
  • The decision came after Trump failed to reach agreement with a bloc of rebellious conservatives. Moderate-leaning Republican lawmakers were also bailing on the legislation, leaving it short of votes.
  • At least 30 Republicans said they opposed the bill, enough to defeat the measure. But the number was in constant flux amid the eleventh-hour lobbying.
  • The bill could still come to a vote in coming days, but canceling Thursday's vote is a significant defeat. It came on the seven-year anniversary of President Barack Obama signing the Affordable Care Act, years that Republicans have devoted to promising repeal.
  • "No deal," House Freedom Caucus Chairman Mark Meadows, R-N.C., said after he and his group of more than two dozen rebellious conservatives met with Trump to try to get more concessions to reduce requirements on insurance companies.
  • The Republican legislation would halt Obama's tax penalties against people who don't buy coverage and cut the federal-state Medicaid program for low earners, which the Obama statute had expanded. It would provide tax credits to help people pay medical bills, though generally skimpier than Obama's statute provides. It also would allow insurers to charge older Americans more and repeal tax boosts the law imposed on high-income people and health industry companies.The measure would also block federal payments to Planned Parenthood for a year, another stumbling block for GOP moderates.
  • A Quinnipiac University poll found that people disapprove of the GOP legislation by 56 percent to 17 percent, with 26 percent undecided. Trump's handling of health care was viewed unfavorably by 6 in 10.
  • GOP leaders had targeted Thursday for the climactic vote, in part because it marks the seventh anniversary of Obama's signing the measure into law. With the House in recess awaiting the outcome of the White House meeting, C-SPAN aired video of that signing ceremony.
  • House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., couldn't resist a dig. "You may be a great negotiator," she said of Trump. "Rookie's error for bringing this up on a day when clearly you're not ready."
  • A key moderate who had been in the meeting, Rep. Charlie Dent of Pennsylvania, issued a statement saying he would be voting "no" on the health bill. "I believe this bill, in its current form, will lead to the loss of coverage and make insurance unaffordable for too many Americans," said Dent, a leader of the Tuesday Group of moderate-leaning Republicans.

* * *

Update 9: And the tiebreaker - no vote today, a vote is tentatively planned for Friday. House GOP leadership has just announced that there will not be a vote on the healthcare bill today. The entire House GOP conference will meet tonight at 7 p.m. to discuss next steps.
 

* * *

Update 8: Now it gets chaotic, because on one hand some are saying there will not be a vote...

  • HOUSE SAID NOT TO VOTE TODAY ON HEALTH CARE BILL: POLITICO
  • HOUSE WILL NOT VOTE ON HEALTHCARE BILL ON THURSDAY -MSNBC, CITING REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP SOURCE

... while others are saying there will"

  • U.S. REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE BRADLEY BYRNE, AFTER MEETING IN HOUSE SPEAKER RYAN'S OFFICE, SAYS IT'S "STILL THE PLAN" TO VOTE THURSDAY NIGHT ON HEALTHCARE BILL
  • HOUSE WILL NOT VOTE ON HEALTHCARE BILL ON THURSDAY -MSNBC, CITING REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP SOURCE
  • TRUMP SAYS "I THINK WE'RE DOING WELL. WE'LL FIND OUT IN ABOUT THREE HOURS."
  • U.S. HOUSE REPUBLICANS TO HOLD CLOSED DOOR MEETING ON HEALTHCARE BILL AT 7 P.M. EDT/2300 GMT - SENIOR HOUSE REPUBLICAN AIDE

In short, total chaos, although it appears that the "no vote" is far more likely.

* * *

Update 7:  According to White House spokesman, Sean Spicer, despite the failure of talks with the Freedom Caucus, the vote will still be held "tonight."  

* * *

Update 6:

Freedom Caucus members leaving the White House after a meeting with President Trump said they have not reached a deal that would allow them to support an repeal-and-replace vote on Thursday, while the White House said it had made a final "take it or leave it" offer to the Freedom Caucus on the Health bill. 

The members streaming out of the White House just after 1 p.m. characterized the meeting positively but showed no signs of a shift toward more favorable ground for the White House and House GOP leadership pushing the bill.  "Nothing new was agreed upon," said Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.)

The problem is that acording to the Freedom caucus, there were no concessions by the White House. As Bloomberg adds, Rep. Patrick McHenry, a member of the House whip operation seeking to win support for measure, says it’s up to Freedom Caucus to accept offer or not. Rep. Thomas Massie, a Republican who earlier described himself as a “hell no” on the deal, said no “definitive deal” yet, though said he heard Freedom Caucus and Trump had a “good meeting.” He said leadership in “real trouble” on vote, it would be irresponsible to vote immediately without full CBO score and as such he remains opposed.

Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-S.C.) told The Hill that Trump, who joined them in the meeting, didn't make an explicit ask. "He was very gracious, he laid out his points but no firm decision has been made by those in the room," Duncan said.

"And he didn't ask us, he didn't get on the table and ask us for that. He asked us to seriously consider the position we are in. "

Most importantly, members of the Freedom Caucus said that if a vote is held tonight, it would fail.  

  • FREEDOM CAUCUS MEMBER AMASH SAYS NOTHING NEW CAME OUT OF TRUMP MEETING, IF THE VOTE IS HELD TONIGHT, IT WILL FAIL
  • HOUSE FREEDOM CAUCUS CHAIRMAN MEADOWS SAYS HOPEFUL CAUCUS' "REASONABLE REQUESTS" WILL ULTIMATELY BE AGREED TO

* * *

Update 5: Following The Freedom Caucus meeting without agreement:

  • *FREEDOM CAUCUS MEMBERS SAY NO DEAL MADE: THE HILL

Rep. Phil Roe - known to be closely aligned with House leaders - told reporters that his sense on vote timing was "not today, probably tomorrow."

*  *  *

Update 4:  Or maybe the White House is just getting ahead of itself. According to Fox News' Charlie Gasparino, the "freedom caucus say their members are still a NO but @WhiteHouse still predicting a victory." 

Finally, here are the latest whip lists:

  • CBS News: 31 "cannot support the bill in its current form"
  • CNN: 24 "no" votes
  • The Hill: 29 "no" votes
  • Huffington Post: 29 "extremely likely to be against"
  • NBC News: 30 "against the bill or leaning against it"
  • New York Times: 29 "no" votes
  • NPR/WNYC: 32 "opposed"
  • Washington Post: 36 "opposed"

Update 3: Maybe those Wall Street forecasts, noted earlier, of a delay to today's vote will be wrong after all. The reason: according to Cliff Sims, special assistant to Trump, there was a "lengthy standing ovation from the Freedom Caucus when @POTUS walked into the Cabinet Room just now" to which the aide added that there is "Big momentum toward #RepealAndReplace."

So while centrists may be getting cold feet in supporting Obamacare repeal, the conservatives appear to be moving toward supporting the Trump legislation, and since it is their numbers that matter, the market's bout of optimism may be justified, especially if the vote is to take place today as expected, which would suggest enough Yes votes have been whipped. Sure enough:

  • REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE MESSER, AFTER MEETING WITH HOUSE SPEAKER RYAN, SAYS STILL HOPING TO HOLD VOTE ON HEALTHCARE BILL ON THURSDAY

And then this:

  • HOUSE REPUBLICAN STUDY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN WALKER TELLS MSNBC HOUSE WILL VOTE ON HEALTHCARE BILL ON THURSDAY EVENING, BELIEVES IT WILL PASS

* * *

Update 2:  Earlier this morning we said the following:

"...the further we press into today without confirmation that Republicans have narrowed the opposition votes from their own party down to 22 or less (as of last night the estimate was 25-30) the more unlikely the vote is to proceed."

It now looks like other analysts are coming around to that fact as well and are lowering their expectations of TrumpCare passing the House today.  Per Bloomberg, Veda analyst Spencer Perlman has lowered his odds to 60% that a vote will occur before the weekend and Beacon Policy Advisors notes simply that the vote is "likely to slip until later today or possibly even into the weekend..."

More time likely needed on possible last minute provisions limiting benefits like hospitalization, ambulance services and maternity care, Veda analyst Spencer Perlman writes in note

 

Adding language limiting these benefits may be enough to “squeak the bill” through House, but Veda is increasingly doubtful will get done tonight

 

Sees 60% chance bill passes House before the weekend, previously saw 65% chance it would pass tonight; keeps 10% odds Senate will finish work before April recess

 

Vote is likely to slip until later today or possibly even into the weekend, Beacon Policy Advisors writes

 

Investors shouldn’t view delays as signal AHCA’s chances of passage are dying; instead, continued negotiations may be positive sign, signaling there’s still "willpower" to make concessions, forge agreements

 

Update 1:  Proving that today's Obamacare vote is encapsulated in complete chaos, here are the latest headlines.

First, one House Republican noted that there is 95% agreement on TrumpCare this morning which could be interpreted to mean that there are only 13 dissenting Republicans and that the bill would pass.  Except that moments later, the same Congressman completely contradicted himself saying "we still have work to do to get votes on GOP bill."

  • REP. BRADY: 95% AGREEMENT ON HEALTH BILL AS OF THIS MORNING
  • REP. BRADY: WE STILL HAVE WORK TO DO TO GET VOTES ON GOP BILL

Meanwhile, as we noted earlier, a 9AM Republican caucus meeting has allegedly been postponed...

  • HOUSE REPUBLICANS POSTPONED 9 A.M. CAUCUS MEETING, ACCORDING TO A SENIOR REPUBLICAN SOURCE WHO PROVIDED NO FURTHER DETAILS

...Paul Ryan just delayed a press breifing to 3:30 from 11:30...

  • RYAN DELAYS PRESS BRIEFING TO 3:30PM, WAS TO BE AT 11:30AM

...and 'fake news' MSNBC is reporting that Republicans are actually losing votes rather than gaining them...

  • REPUBLICAN U.S. REPRESENTATIVE MO BROOKS SAYS 30-40 REPUBLICANS LIKELY TO VOTE 'NO' ON HEALTHCARE BILL -MSNBC 

Bottom line, no one knows where this things is going today...

* * *

To vote, or not to vote, that is the only question on the minds of Trump's White House and House Republicans this morning, or as AP puts it, the fate of Trump's domestic agenda is "on the brink":

The GOP's long-promised legislation to repeal and replace "Obamacare" stood on the brink just hours before Republican leaders planned to put it on the House floor for a showdown vote. Short of support, GOP leaders looked to President Donald Trump to close the deal with a crucial bloc of conservatives, in the first major legislative test of his young presidency.

If everything proceeds as planned, the Obamacare vote is currently scheduled for 7pm tonight.  That said, the further we press into today without confirmation that Republicans have narrowed the opposition votes from their own party down to 22 or less (as of last night the estimate was 25-30) the more unlikely the vote is to proceed. 

As we pointed out yesterday, the TrumpCare vote is the first high-stakes political battle of Trump's Presidency and pits Trump against the more conservative elements of the Republican Party.  For Trump, failure to pass healthcare reform would be a major blow as it was a signature component of his campaign and could signal that he will face an uphill battle against the Freedom Caucus to implement other policy initiatives.  For conservatives, they must choose between supporting their party and a bill that has been dubbed "Obamacare-lite" at the risk of alienating powerful conservative funders, like the Koch Brothers and their various Super PACs, which got them elected in the first place. 

Trump has been billed by some lawmakers as "the closer" to seal the deal on the replacement healthcare plan in a vote but, as of this morning, less than 12 hours from the scheduled vote, passage still looks questionable, at best. 

As of last night, Trump signaled he was willing to meet some of the conservatives' demands to knock out Obamacare's insurance regulations — even though there's no guarantee those changes would comply with the budget rules, and they could just get stripped out in the Senate.  Here are some of the changes currently being contemplated/drafted, per Axios:

  • Top Republicans may be willing to strip out Obamacare's "essential health benefit" requirements to win the votes of the Freedom Caucus.
  • These are the 10 categories of benefits that have to be covered under the law: outpatient care, emergency services, hospitalization, maternity care, mental health, prescription drugs, rehab, laboratory services, preventive care, and pediatric services.
  • Still up in the air is whether the GOP will also be willing to strip out Obamacare's other insurance regulations — like requiring insurers to cover pre-existing conditions and preventing them from charging sick people more than others.
  • The Freedom Caucus wants them out because they think those are the reasons individual health insurance became so expensive under Obamacare — but the law's supporters say those health plans used to be skimpy and will go back to being skimpy if the benefits aren't required.
  • The change of plans happened after the White House offered to try to get those regulations stripped out in the Senate, if the conservatives would vote for the House bill as is. The conservatives rejected that offer because they don't trust the Senate.
  • The risk, as Democratic aides warned, is that the Senate could just strip out all the insurance changes.

Trump also announced he'll be hosting the Freedom Caucus at the White House this morning at 11:30, presumably as a last ditch effort to swing votes after changes to the legislation were drafted overnight.  But, early reports suggest that House Republicans have postponed a planned meeting this morning, according to conference spokesman Nate Hodson.

Trump Ryan

 

As a reminder, here is a recap of some of the key components of the TrumpCare bill per Stone McCarthy Research:

The AHCA would eliminate the penalties for individuals who don't obtain health insurance and large employers who don't provide adequate coverage. The legislation would repeal subsidies for individuals receive for the purchase of health insurance and in their place create age-based tax credits.

 

The AHCA would allow insurers to charge higher premiums for older individuals, ease restrictions on what share of benefits insurance plans must cover and require insurers to apply a 30 percent surcharge on premiums for individuals who allow their coverage to lapse.

 

The legislation calls for cuts in Medicaid spending for those made eligible for the program by the ACA. Future growth in spending would also be curtailed through per capita limits on spending or through optional block grants made available to states. States could also impose work requirements on beneficiaries.

 

The AHCA would repeal many of the ACA's taxes, including the surtax on high-income taxpayers' net investment income, the increase in the Medicare payroll tax rate for high-income taxpayers and the annual fee on health insurance providers. The bill would delay the implementation of the tax on high-cost plans -- the so-called Cadillac tax -- until 2026.

If TrumpCare passes the House, the Senate can pass it with a simple majority, meaning Republicans can lose no more than two votes. That said, more than two Republican senators have publicly opposed the AHCA in its current form. The legislation could also be challenged by Democrats for violating reconciliation's requirement that all provisions have a direct impact on the budget

As Goldman's Alec Phillips points out, the financial markets will be looking to today's vote, or lack their of, as an indication of Trump's ability to execute other key components of his agenda like tax reform and border policies.

Financial markets are focused on the prospects for passage of the House Republican proposal to “repeal and replace” Obamacare because the vote is seen as a referendum on the ability of Congress to enact its broader policy agenda. While this view has some merit, we would note three important nuances.

 

First, the Senate is likely to pose at least as much of a challenge as the House, and reconciling the likely differences between the two chambers will be hard. This week’s vote is the start of a process that could last several more weeks, and may not be the hardest part of the process.

 

Second, passage of the health bill is not what is important for tax reform. Instead, the most important issue for financial markets is for Congress to be finished with this bill one way or another so that it can move forward with tax reform, which is likely to have a greater effect on corporate earnings and the real economy. While the prospects for the health bill are murky, we would be surprised if Congress has not begun debating tax reform by mid-year, even if it means putting the health bill aside to return to it later.

 

Third, while there are lessons for tax reform in the current health debate, there are also differences. The trouble that congressional Republicans face in achieving majority support for the health bill is a reminder of how difficult it might be to reach near-unanimous Republican support for major tax reforms, like border adjustment. However, there is likely to be much broader support for tax cuts than there is for the health legislation. Even if the health bill fails, we would continue to believe the odds of tax legislation passing by early 2018 are high.

Meanwhile, today is a fitting day for the TrumpCare vote as it marks the 7th anniversary of Obamacare becoming the law of the land.

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Looney's picture

 

Here’s a preview of today’s sequel to “Saving Ryan’s Privates”.

Storyline

The jar with Paul Ryan’s lady-parts is stolen by hungry vegetarians.

Cast

Rosie O’Donnell as Speaker Paul Ryan

Whoopi Goldberg as Barack 0bama

Michael Moore as Janet Yellen

Mama June” Shannon as Hillary Clinton

Nancy Pelosi as Crazy Lady with AK-47

Chuck Schumer as Huma Abedin

Looney  ;-)

FrozenGoodz's picture

D oh A Day

 

Y D ew This Day

 

N O Day

 

T rye Again Day

 

N ott A Chance Day

VinceFostersGhost's picture

 

 

It's the art of the deal Donald.

 

This ain't no deal!

 

Healthcare needs to be the land of the thousands of free market choices.

 

Government needs to back the hell out of this crap.

StackShinyStuff's picture

I have no idea what's in this bill.  Can we pass it and find out?

FireBrander's picture

VOTE NO!

Then:

1. Repeal the ACA mandate or instruct the IRS not to enforce.

2. Go after the COST OF CARE that is ARTIFICIALLY inflated by a factor of AT LEAST 10x what people could actually pay without "help" from the Government.

3. The money spent on Insurance, Medicare, and Medicaid will fall dramatically!

4. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of VOTERS will be VERY PLEASED!

5. Hardcore Leftwing nujobs will be angry, the "Health Lobby" will be angry...who cares!

6. Repeal ObamaCare entirely.

7. Rewrite Medicaid...charge a graduated premium (10% of income) with only the "living under a bridge" poor getting it for free.

8. Phase out Medicare over the coming decades.

thinkmoretalkless's picture

Healthcare is in over supply and expensive only because of government mandate and zero price discovery. Cartels of insurance companies, drug manufacturers and hospital behemoths control prices in collusion with a Progressive government just interested in social control. These Progressive control freaks are running out the clock until they have extinguished critical thinking and self reliance from the populace, and even a cursory look at what's happening on campuses reveals they are succeeding. Freedom is too scary.
While this bill falls far short of what needs to be done to return healthcare towards a free market system that can create cost reduction and innovation, with the current mindset of lemmings willing to abdicate their responsibility and sovereignty to a reassuring but ineffective government this is only the beginning.

wren's picture

Everyone needs to let him do his job. You may not like it, but in 2 years we could lose the majority and that's it folks because Dem's don't break party lines. So this is it really. And so far Trump has followed through. So when your congressmen vote remember this. They are either voting for Obamacare or against Obamacare. This bill is either better than Obamacare or it is worse than Obamacare. Your congressmen will be showing you what they prefer soon and I think a bunch of them will need replacing.

crossroaddemon's picture

Sooo... what you're saying is we have to support this because it will save Trump's political capital and keep Rs in congress. Doesn't matter what's in it so long as it keeps your side in power...

Arguably the dumbest thing I ever heard.

PrayingMantis's picture

... so realistically, the House is a 3-party system ... the Elephants, the Donkeys & the Rhinos ...

    ... hmmm, re: House Repubs, I wonder what you'd get if you cross an Elephant and a Rhino?  heck, Elephino ...

... and hell if I know, indeed, why Obumboclotcare couldn't be repealed altogether ... and just let the people buy and pay for what they could afford ... (and if they're Obumboclotcare-fan snowflake retards living in their mommies' basements, let them work for a change instead of protesting under whatever "Social Justice Warrior's" agenda while simultaneously outstretching their collective palms getting food stamps and welfare freebies and sucking every bit of social benefits from .gov tits) ...

... heck, Americans do it with car and home insurance ... they choose and pay for their car and home coverage; why couldn't Americans pick and choose their health care coverage, as well, and select what they could afford from any medical insurance company of their choice and from any US State ...

... Canada could afford a uniform universal health care because only basic health care needs are provided for by each Provincial government (not from Federal .gov) and if the Canadian citizens want the "extras", they would buy the optional "extras" from a "private" insurer in order to get the private corner rooms and other "pluses" like fucking shiatsu "massages" etc..  The extras are provided for by private insurers offered through their employers and deducted off their pay ... so, only those employees working for a company that offers such would get the extra private health care. Every Canadian gets the basic health care from their own Provincial government.

There are approx. 36 million Canadians with an effective out-of-the-labor-force (unemployment) rate of 6% (or approx. 2 million) and the citizens' health care coverage is administered by each Province (or State) ... which means, each Canadian Province could and "must" protect its own budgets (including health care) and other handouts based on each population count numbers ... and it would be up to each Province to decide who gets the health care basic needs ... and this is why each Province could let as many undocumented illegal aliens as they could afford to look after (it would be on each Provincial leader's head and not necessarily the boy Prime Minister's head) ... illegals would fall under each Provincial budget's expenditures ...

... universal health care might not work in the good-'ol-democratic-or-should-I-say-republican USofA ... the USA has approx. 300 million population (much more if you include the undocumented illegal aliens) with an effective out-of-the-labor-force rate of approx 100 million (mostly snowflake retards and much more if you include the undocumented illegal aliens) or approx. 30% of the population (because the remaining 30% are unemployable retards, almost-dead seniors and minors or children) ...

... and the federal .gov (ie. President Trump) would have a very difficult task of telling the whole United States, let alone, the individual States (especially those with retarded snowflake majorities opting for "illegal-or-undocumented-immigrant sanctuary" status) to adhere to a Federal directive ... viewed similarly, why can't EACH American State manage and administer their own health care agenda and program?  ... this way, snowflakes would have a greater chance to protest and riot against their own State's ineptness ... this way, the almost blind, None See Pelosi or the forever comedian retard, Al Frankenstein, or the retard-of-all-retards Maxine What-the-Fuck Waters, would all be swept out of office once their fellow snowflake retards would be denied their State-administered social welfare benefits ...

 

crossroaddemon's picture

First of all, are you high? What are you trying to say, exactly? Second, that was a reply to my post but I can't see what if anything in there had to do with my post.

PrayingMantis's picture

@crossroaddemon ...

>>> First of all, are you high?
   ... yes, I had tea this morning

>>>What are you trying to say, exactly?

   ... it's in north american english, need a dictionary? just read ...

>>> Second, that was a reply to my post but I can't see what if anything in there had to do with my post.

   ... not necessarily, (don't feel too important) ... it's a reply to the article in general ... now go back to sleep ;) ... and next time, don't get triggered easily, unless you're one of those snowflake demoncrat retards  ... this is the fight club, remember? :)

 

 

MagicHandPuppet's picture

This bill is awful.  Just awful.  Almost as bad as O'bummercare.

Is this really what Daddy Trump wants?  Just repeal the entire O'bummercare bill and throw in a goodie or two for us peasants like the pre-existing condition clause from ACA... or not.  I don't even care.  But, requiring insurers to charge 30 percent for lapse?  WTF?

Goobermint: Stay out of insurance.  Seriously.

No Time for Fishing's picture

Because Lobbiest much prefer to only have to pay off half of Congress as opposed to paying off 50% of the legislatures in 50 States and Congress much prefers to be paid off than see that money go elsewhere. 

Shocker's picture

Make a bill that actually works, and will be great. That is what the american people want

Time to start winning again... Jobs list - http://www.dailyjobfix.com

-

WordSmith2013's picture

There's only one question about this unmitigated disaster:

Who tried to force the Ryancare poison pill down Trump’s throat?

 

http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=69510

kavlar's picture

If you know what TRUMP stands for, the defeats will be ONE AFTER ANOTHER.

https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/views-of-news/#trumpmeans

techies-r-us's picture
techies-r-us (not verified) kavlar Mar 23, 2017 6:51 PM

Thank God, I'm apolitical, neither a Trumptard, nor a Bamatard.

Logan 5's picture

aka (((The FART of the STEAL)))...

 

Thanks Kushner!

crazzziecanuck's picture

GOP is only concerned about granting more tax cuts for the rich, which is basically why the GOP establishment have gone crazy the last few years to get rid of it.  All the subsidies are the result of tax levies on the wealthy.  Let's not lose sight of the fact that the core of ObamaCare is basically what Bob Dole campaigned on in 1996 (government imposed mandate and lack of pricing controls).

We all should know now that the #1 job of people in the GOP and Paul Ryan is by now.  It's to protect and coddle the rich.

I like what Karl Denniger said about fixing the system.  Remove the Sherman Act exemptions for all those in the health care industry.  The instant that goes into effect, a large chunk of the federal deficit goes away almost overnight.  Remember what Cheney said, that deficits don't matter.  That's true, but for him they don't matter so long as that spending goes to rich people.  Have the GOP gone after graft and corruption?  No, they're getting rid of Meals on Wheels and school lunch programs... and Democrats just roll over and play dead.

Billy the Poet's picture

All the subsidies are the result of tax levies on the wealthy

 

I've paid for my own insurance even while living below poverty level. The insurance was overpriced because I was forced to subsidize the care of others. So that makes me wealthy in your opinion. Please explain how that works.

Roger Rabbit's picture

Yeah, they claim they're getting rid of the penalties, meanwhile we're now going to be penalized even MORE than before!

GernB's picture

You just don't get it. The game is to call it repeal so you can claim the Freedom Caucus is against repeal, when in fact it is nothing of the sort. This leaves the Freedom Caucus in the position of having to explain to voters the nuances of why it is not repeal while trump with his bully pulpit screams it is. And a public that only reads headlines will believe Trump. This is why health care is doomed and why Trump wasn't necessarily a good idea. He never claimed he favored freedom. Ever.

AldousHuxley's picture

More like FreeDumb Circus

 

The real question is why can't tax paying Americans get the same healthcare coverage tax gorging Congress? 

 

 

 

Billy the Poet's picture

And a public that only reads headlines will believe Trump.

I voted for Trump but I don't believe that this is a good deal. I see lots of other Trump voters saying the same thing in these comments.

 

This is why health care is doomed and why Trump wasn't necessarily a good idea. He never claimed he favored freedom. Ever.

The other choice was Hillary. Who was the lesser of evils?

Giant Meteor's picture

Goobermints is in the business of protecting big money, the FIRE sector e con omy etc. Its what they do. They are not going to shit on their own golden goose, to rescue the murikan peeple ..

 

No Time for Fishing's picture

Because anytime you move something from the Federal Government to the States it then has to be paid for with real money. The Federal Government has magic money that the States cannot access called debt. If I demand the Federal Government do it I can pretrend like I don't have to pay for it. 

GernB's picture

I can pretend I don't have to pay for it... until later when everything collapses under ther wreight of all that debt.

There, fixed it for you.

JRobby's picture

Money changing hands all day, all night, all weekend long.

Some things will not change with these corrupt motherfuckers until they sit in jail for 5 or 7 years (SB 15 or 20)

GernB's picture

"too many people will lose their coverage" - That's political speak for hot enough federal money will go to major health care corporations to have them fund my reelection.

JRobby's picture

Increase The Bribe Collecting Interval

Typical Congressional tactic!

AldousHuxley's picture

System must incentivize people to make healthy choices. can't rely on good will of the masses either since most people are lazy and short term focused:

 

If you smoke, you don't get lung cancer care

If you are an alcoholic, you don't get Liver tumor care

If you are obese and don't exercise, you don't heart surgery care

If you drink gallons of coke a day, you don't get Diabetes care

If you go to tanning salons, you don't get melonoma care

Have kids after 35 because you wanted to have a "career" then no healthcare if your kid comes out mentally retarded.

ETC.

If you support illegal immigration and illegal immigrant drives over your family or harms you, you don't get emergency care

 

Do you know why the state of Massachusetts have the worst drivers? because insurance rate is same for everyone!!! This is the state where Romney's socialized healthcare mandate originated BTW before Obamacare.

 

Socializing anything when you have population of 300,000,000 is crazy. Just another governmetn excuse to funnel money to their corporate bribers.

Tiwin's picture

You cannot argue with a partisan Republica , or democrat for that matter.

They are NOT Americans and have little or no concern for the future of our country.

They only care if their 'side' is winning .

yrad's picture

Do your fucking jobs, assholes!! Just do your fucking jobs.

Syrin's picture

If Trump actually votes for this fucking shit, then he is DESERVEDLY a one term president.  What in the fuck is he thinking?   Is he baiting the RINO's to see who would actually be in favor of this turd, then will abandon support for it at the last minute, or is he now Paul Rino's bitch?   SOMEONE PLEASE EXPLAIN !

wren's picture

I'm saying there are two choices. Obamacare or this new plan. There is no third option. I know you would all like to have your perfect little world, but those are your two choices. Sure, option three might be better, but option three doesn't exist right now.

Arguably the dumbest thing you ever heard? Actually, choosing option three when there are only two options right now is pretty dumb. Pick the better of the two and if you don't like it, start drafting new legislation to further dismantle it.

crossroaddemon's picture

So we get to eat a cat shit sandwich, or a dogshit sandwich. You're still eating shit.

wren's picture

You're right. But it's less shit. I don't like it, but it's either this or Obamacare. If you think we're gonna get what we want when we have soooooo many LIBERAL wannabe republicans, I guess we'll see.

I'm sure Trump would do more if he thought he could get it to pass. Unfortunately, he can't get anything passed when we just keep electing liberals to conservative positions. If he swings the bill more conservative, LIBERAL republicans like Sen. Murkowski will bounce. If he goes more conservative Rand Paul will bounce. Not that I like it, it's just the way it is.

So, it's kinda take it or leave it. Gotta say it for the democrats, at least their congressmen vote party lines. Ours are a bunch of (use whatever word you choose here).

I have faith that Trump is fixing things, but this is the war he's fighting. If we don't like it, we need to bounce any legislators that cross party lines and vote with the democrats.

prefan4200's picture

Seriously?  That's the dumbest thing you ever heard?  Did you live in a cave for the past 8 years?

crossroaddemon's picture

Yeah... seriously eat a shit snadwich so our team can get a win is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard.

Ex-Oligarch's picture

"so our team can get a win"?

More like, shooting an own goal to show you can put the ball in the net.

AldousHuxley's picture

Healthcare is expensive because the entire ecosystem is corrupt:

 

  • Private insurers collect premiums (now forced "tax") from young workers, then dump older ones to government (medicare) when they really need it. Their excuse? expensive doctors
  • Service providers like specialists want to get paid a lot of money for government protected job security. They don't save lives forever, since everyone eventually dies. Their excuse? training costs
  • Medical Schools and training hospitals want to charge outrageous tuition and make their executives, administrators rich. Their excuse? hospitals make more money than them.
  • Hospitals (regional monopolies) charge more money than luxury hotels and are non-profit to boot! Their excuse? insurers don't cover all, so they have to overcharge patients with insurance to help cover those without
  • Patients complain they don't heve insurance because they can't afford it

Everyone makes more than other advanced countries

Also, forgot the other side of healthcare....food, beer, tabacco industry. Unhealthy habits subsidized to keep the masses full and happy with junk food. Warren Buffet loves Coke's profits on sugar water while externalizing the diabetes cost to the middle class tax payers.

And then there is pharma. They actually advance the medicine with magic pills and help you, but want universities do all of the costly R&D and differentiated pricing for a commodity. See how useful Doctors are without prescriptive powers.

 

You have to attack all of these parasites all at once to actually lower the COST OF HEALTHCARE. insurnace alone isn't going to change anything...just shift costs around.

 

 

 

Carl Spackler's picture

Inaccurate conclusion.

The real negotiations are going on now.

The date/time of vote was an arbitrarily set barrier by Ryan, who is from my home state and whom my wife worked with in Congress more than a decade ago.

Having a "deadline" forces the representatives to actually have to do something. Behind closed doors, they are finally having the conversations they should have been having since middle of November. Trump can be thanked for this. He's gotten them to get to work. However, that is not his job. It is the Speaker's job.

A key takeaway from the process unfolding in this manner is, among other things, how weak and ill prepared Ryan is as Speaker for this moment. These conversations and deals among House Republicans should have been done more a month ago.

Blankone's picture

Let him (Trump) do his job (his job for the jews and elite!!) is what you are saying.  This Trumpcare is just more false hope and change by Trump and if it passes Trump will leave the healthcare issue behind and falsely claim mission accomplished when if fact he sold out the citizens.  In doing so he will make it many times more difficult to ever effect real correction.

thinkmoretalkless's picture

I am not necessarily opposed to the current Bill. I've listened to both sides and remain undecided. What breaks the tie is Trump. Watching Trump since he announced his candidacy I've come to appreciate his intelligence ability shrewdness persona stamina and toughness. I'm through second guessing him until he stops "trumping" his detractors and skeptics. I acknowledge he represents a phenomenon, a non-politician in the White House and I don't want to squander this opportunity, so once again I'm ready to give Trump the benefit of any doubt and let him play his hand out.

crossroaddemon's picture

This is dangerous thinking. Anyone in a position of power must be regarded with the utmost suspicion, even if it's somebody you wanted there. Blind trust of power is the most stupid and dangerous thing I know, no matter who is wielding it.

 

John_Coltrane's picture

Yes, the bill is "better than Obamacare", but so is a huge pile of steaming cow manure.

The bill in unacceptable on principle and thus will never go through the house much less the senate.

Firebrander is correct we need to get .gov out of the health care biz.

If nothing is done except repeal the mandate and subsidies which can easily pass both houses all the rest of the so-called private insurance market will collapse and the demonrats who are solely responsible for it will get the full blame come 2018. If they pass this unworkable turd they will get the blame. Its a solid 60 vote majority in the senate if they simply pass the across-the-board tax cuts Trump proposes.

The Wizard's picture

Letting him do his job is to deliver on what people voted for in the election. It wasn't for a healthcare based on a tax system. All Trumpster is looking at is the revenue the government can steal in the name of healthcare. Government should not be contolling healthcare. Healthcare should be people caring for themselves and focus on how to stay healthy without big pharma, doctors, government, etc. I'm sick and tired of paying for people who don't focus on how to stay healthy.

How much of the swamp has