Seymour Hersh: "RussiaGate Is A CIA-Planted Lie, Revenge Against Trump"

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Investigative historian Eric Zuesse is the author, most recently, of  They’re Not Even Close: The Democratic vs. Republican Economic Records, 1910-2010, and of  CHRIST’S VENTRILOQUISTS: The Event that Created Christianity.

During the latter portion of a phone-call by investigative journalist, Seymour Hersh, Hersh has now presented “a narrative [from his investigation] of how that whole fucking thing began,” including who actually is behind the ‘RussiaGate’ lies, and why they are spreading these lies.

In a youtube video upload-dated August 1st, he reveals from his inside FBI and Washington DC Police Department sources — now, long before the Justice Department’s Special Counsel Robert Mueller will be presenting his official ‘findings’ to the nation — that the charges that Russia had anything to do with the leaks from the DNC and Hillary Clinton’s campaign to Wikileaks, that those charges spread by the press, were a CIA-planted lie, and that what Wikileaks had gotten was only leaks (including at least from the murdered DNC-staffer Seth Rich), and were not from any outsider (including ’the Russians’), but that Rich didn’t get killed for that, but was instead shot in the back during a brutal robbery, which occurred in the high-crime DC neighborhood where he lived. Here is the video... 

... and here is the transcript :

* * *

About the kid, I’ll tell you what I know. What I know comes off an FBI report. Don’t ask me how. You can figure it out, I’ve been around a long time. The kid, just, I don’t think he was murdered, I, I don’t think he was murdered because of what he knew. The kids a nice boy, 27, he was not IT expert, but he learned stuff. He was a data programmer, but he learned stuff. And so he’s living on one street, someone, in my eyes,- he’s living in a ruff neighborhood and in the exact where he’d been living, as I’m sure you know, there have been about 8 or 9 or 10 violent, uh not robberies, most of them with somebody brandishing a gun and it’s the kids hands, I’m telling you look, I’m sure you know what, his hands are marked up, the cops concluded he fought off the people, tried to run they shot him twice in the back with a 22 small caliper. And then, they, the kids that did it ran, they got scared, they didn’t take his wallet.

 

Ok. So what the cops do is this: And this is where nobody knows, what I’m telling you, and maybe you know something about it. When you have a death like that DC cops, if you’re dead, you don’t just generally go yep I know (unintelligible) you have to get in to the kids apartment and see what you can find. If he’s dead you don’t need a warrant but most cops get a warrant because they don’t know if they’ve guys has, has a, a roommate. You need a warrant. So they get a warrant. I’m just telling you, there is such a thing. They go in the house and they can’t do much with this computer. It’s (unintelligible) the cops don’t know much about it. So the DC cops they have a cyber unit in DC and they’re more sophisticated. They come and look at it. The idea is maybe he’s a series of exchanges with somebody who says I’m going to kill you motherfucker over a girl or… and they can’t get in. The cyber guys do a little better but they can’t make sense of it so they call the, they call the FBI cyber unit, the DC unit.

 

The Washington field office is a hot shit unit. The guy running the Washington field office he’s like, he’s like, you know, he’s like a three star at an army base he’s already looking for four, you know what I mean? He’s gonna go in a top job. There’s a cyber unit there that’s excellent, given. What you get in a warrant is, the public information you get in a warrant doesn’t include, uh, it does not include the affidavit underlying what, why you are you going in, what the reasons are that.. That’s almost never available, um, I, I can tell you that the existence of a warrant is a public document 99% of the time. So, um, on the same warrant, they call in the feds. The feds get through, and this is what they find. This is according to the FBI report. What they find is he makes cont- first of all this is what you have to know, you have to know some basic facts, one of the basic factors, in that there’s no DNC or Podesta emails that exist beyond May 22nd. May 21st, May 22nd is the last email from either one of those groups. And so what the reports says is that sometime in late spring, we’re talking June you know summers in June 21st, late spring would be after, I presume, I don’t know, I’d just say late spring, early summer and he makes contact with Wikileaks. That’s in his computer and he makes contact.

 

Now, I have to be careful because I, I’ve know, I, met Julian 10 or 12 years (ago?) I stay the fuck away from people like that, you know. He’s invited me, and when I’m in London I always get a message “Come see me at the Ecuadorian” but I say fuck no I’m not going there I’ve got enough trouble without getting photographed. And he’s under total surveillance by everybody but anyways. So, they found what he’d done. He had submitted a series of documents, of emails. Some juicy emails from the DNC, and you know, by the way all this shit about the DNC, um, you know, whether it was hacked or wasn’t hacked, whatever happened, the democrats themselves wrote this shit, you know what I mean? All I know is that he (Seth) offered a sample, an extensive sample, you know I’m sure dozens of email and said “I want money”. Then later Wikileaks did get the password, he had a Dropbox, a protected Dropbox, which isn’t hard to do, I mean you don’t have to be a wizard IT, you know, he was certainly not a dumb kid. They got access to the Dropbox. He also, and this is also in the FBI report, he also let people know, with whom he was dealing, and I don’t know how he dealt, I’ll tell you about Wikileaks in a second. I don’t know how he dealt with the Wikileaks and the mechanism but he also, the word was passed according to the NSA report, “I’ve also shared this box with a couple of friends so if anything happens to me it’s not going to solve your problem”. Ok. I don’t know what that means.

 

I don’t know whether you- Anyways, Wikileaks got access, and before he was killed- I can tell you right now Brennan is an asshole. Uh, I’ve known all these people for years. Clapper is sort of a better guy but not rocket scientist, the NSA guy’s a fucking moron, and they don’t- you know the trouble with all of those guys is that the only way they’re going to make it to a board or two and get hired by (?) and get some fat cat contracts is if Hillary stayed in. With Trump they’re gone, they’re done, they’re going to live on their pension, they’re not going to make it. And I gotta tell you guys, they don’t want to live on their pension, they want to be on boards.

 

I have somebody on the inside, you know I’ve been around a long time, and I write a lot of stuff. I have somebody on the inside who will go and read a file for me. This person is unbelievably accurate and careful, he’s a very high-level guy and he’ll do a favor. You’re just going to have to trust me. I have what they call in my business a long-form journalism, I have a narrative of how that whole fucking thing began, it’s a Brennan operation, it was an American disinformation and fucking the fucking President, at one point when they, they even started telling the press, they were back briefing the press, the head of the NSA was going and telling the press, fucking cock-sucker Rogers, was telling the press that we even know who in the GRU, the Russian Military Intelligence Service, who leaked it. I mean all bullshit. They were telling the studp- I worked at the New York Times for fucking years, and the trouble with the fucking New York Times is they have smart guys, but they’re totally beholden on sources. If the president or the head of the (???) to actually believe it. I was actually hired at the time to write, to go after the war in Vietnam War in 72 because they were just locked in. So that’s what the Times did. These guys run the fucking Times, and Trump’s not wrong. But I mean I wish he would calm down and had a better a better press secretary, I mean you don’t have to be so. Trump’s not wrong to think they all fucking lie about him.

The media-coverage of this matter is focusing on allegations that Seth Rich was murdered in order to silence him. All such media-coverage ignores much of what Hersh said on the phone (where Hersh makes clear that Rich was, indeed, murdered in a regular robbery), and therefore should be viewed as an example of what the Washington Post and others in the mainstream press call ‘fake news’, but which actually applies to themselves, on both the left and right, above all. 

The purpose of those distorting ‘news’ stories might be a desire, on the part of both the Democratic Party aristocrats and the Republican Party aristocrats, to distract the public’s attention away from the far deeper understanding that drives the “narrative” that Hersh, in that clip, is describing: rot by the U.S. aristocracy, which controls both of America’s political Parties, to deceive the American public. The objective is to protect the aristocracy. That’s not publishable; it is American samizdat. Corruption rules America. The public do not. This fact is what Hersh is describing in his “narrative.”

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vulcanraven's picture

Boom goes the dynamite.

synergize's picture

Man - ENOUGH with the propaganda ZH.  Tired of all this conspiracy theory nonsense - time to move on and let the administration WORK!

FrozenGoodz's picture

Is this another ... hey push that Seth story-line ... WH puppet ... click baity story?

Bill of Rights's picture

Nope just another Trump thread that your posting in. Troll la la la la la

jeff montanye's picture

and let's not lose track of what seymour hersh believes he knows and what he suspects.

he has a deep source able to read fbi files and known to be very accurate.  that covers seth rich's contact with wikileaks, his delivery of the emails and, tellingly, that rich asked for money from wikileaks, new information.

as for the murder itself, seymour hersh seems merely an informed bystander.  he does not claim to have access even to the information about the case that the d.c. police has, who have not solved it.  and it looks like the fbi chose only to decode rich's computer for the d.c. police; at least that is all hersh speaks to.

so hersh could be wrong about the murder.  or he could be right.

but what he believes he knows is that rich gave the emails to wikileaks and that the russian hacking story was concocted by john brennan, late head of the cia.

that can't be what the dnc and the deep state want people to think.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Never under estimate the lengths to which people will go to believe exactly what they want to believe.

Slack Jack's picture

I wrote this before Trump happily agreed to sign the sanctions bill against Russia: I didn't post it as I wasn't sure how true it was. I am still a little surprised at how correct it turned out to be.

The Orange Jew actually wants to enact sanctions against Russia.

However, he wants to do this while still pretending to represent those that voted for him.

That is why the House voted 419-3 for sanctions.

That is why the press screams that the sanctions deal is veto-proof.

All to give him a plausible excuse to sign the bill, to do what he wants, but not what his support base wants.

As many Trump supporters now suspect, Trump has actually been their enemy from the beginning.

If the Orange Jew is the real deal then he will veto this sanctions legislation.

But, Trump is not the real deal. So, he will sign it into law.

Trump is no different from Obama, Bush and Clinton.

http://www.preearth.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=630

Jim in MN's picture

How perfect of you to prove Cog's point for him.....

It might surprise you to find out that our trade relations with Russia aren't actually very important.

We have other things to worry about here in the USA. 

Frankly the less we have to do with Eurasia, the better.

Now there is something very horrible about the Congress being able to agree 90+% on this shitty bill, while playing Fake Division on things of actual importance to us.  THAT is going to change one way or the other.

Trump's role?  Who knows?  Still glad it's him and not Her Fury, how about you?

mrtoad's picture

No, trade relations with russia arent important but when germany have to buy expensive US gas instead of cheaper Russian gas thats when things get ugly for the US.

Dammit Walter's picture

"they're all a bunch fucking cock suckers"  -- ya think?

 

How deep does the rabbit hole go?  Does the FBI source "read files" to Hersh?  What's the angle for the source?  Or do they thow Hersh a bone once in a while, to get him to believe/trust his source, so then Hersh is really an "asset".  Then when the FBI wants to feed out complete bullshit to trusted press guy, then his FBI source feeds him a pile of lies ... naturally a "respected" investigative journalist wouldn't betray the public trust [on purpose].  

Another commenter pointed out the spy jargon for this scenario is "Limited Hangout" or similar.

And its even in wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout

 

 

armada's picture

"The objective is to protect the aristocracy."

Meet the aristocracy. https://goo.gl/bFYusM

JSBach1's picture

First and foremost one should consider motive and reputation when a story such as this one in regards to this on-going battle of Russia meddling, or any other story of notiarity for that matter, surfaces cloaked with anonymity and with little to no corroboration.

Clearly there are two diametrically opposed narratives at play in this case: namely those in the government that want to advance the Russia meddled angle for various obvious reasons and ones not so obvious, and the other faction in the government which refutes this claim again for obvious and not so obvious reasons. To what end then? On the one hand, the proponents of the Russia meddling line want to justify the removal of a duly elected President thereby laying the ground work for his removal from office and whatever the aggregate reasoning is for that, yet they seem fervent on this course of action. If, however, this preferred method -- only being preferred because of the wrong outcome in the preceding election -- fails in its objective, the less preferred outcomes will come to play, as it seems: either by way of damaging the President's agenda whereby obsessively repeating this Russia narrative to the point he becomes ineffective at passing his agenda paving way for a realignment of political power in the 2018 and 2020 elections, or removing him entirely a la the JFK way. What is less clear is the order of the less preferable options henceforth. On the other hand, there are those who propose that Russia spent little or no effort in meddling in the election per se. It could be because the election was just, yet its opponents have sour grapes as a result, or the sour grapes turned into a vengeful wrath of their convictions in order to teach the people obedience for not voting in accordance and not inline with the preordained "nominee" of their choosing. Perhaps the truth, as is often the case, lies somewhere in between, and in trying to determine the most plausible version of said events we are forced to round off the real events, as they truly happened, much like rounding off a real number to some less precise value, the only question being is the significant digits in consideration thereof, in which case, as in this scenario, it is akin to the degree of factual/verified/corroborated information.

Now as far as the history/reputation portion, that is more clear and one can thereby judge accordingly.

One thing that is striking about Hersh's claim is that Seth Rich used a Dropbox account to store these emails on to. Well, since Dropbox is a cloud storage solution system we can deduce that: it was physically stored outside Rich's grasp and therefore not in his control, and in order to get the contents of Dropbox one must first download the contents over the Internet thereby registering the data to the omni-eavesdropping NSA's ears. Incidentally, IMO it was this very agency and its brethren which publicized the "convenience" of cloud storage via the media outlets and the mega tech companies -- think about why these companies were given the pathway to becoming giant to begin with, but that is tangential to this discussion -- in the first place. Now can you see why? One would be wise to stay clear of cloud storage of sensitive personal information as it will always traverse through the NSA's and any other group's waiting clutches.

In the end one should juxtapose what Hersh put out here and the aim for which it is put out. What is it that he, Hersh, or, by extension, his sources are trying to convey and by whose purported interests.

Dammit Walter's picture

Your mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.


FIAT CON's picture

Sorry Judd hersh.... you are a player or you are being played!

new game's picture

shit or dead fish, hmmm, guess we all just get shit on...

trumps role is as transparent as his actions, and that my friend isn't looking too good, unless, you or I are pro MIC, ruh, ruh - rah, ty a yellow ribbon are around this cock and suk...

MrBoompi's picture

When they get up to 84 or 85 on the Trump Body Count, I will agree he is the same as Clinton.  

TuPhat's picture

Trump is crap.  Just not the same crap as Clinton.  He can mislead a different group of people much better.  As for Hersh and Zeuss, I would not believe anything they say.  Hersh can't even express himself coherently.  How can he be a writer? 

SWRichmond's picture

The Hersh release is a textbook example of a limited hangout

Killdo's picture

especially if brainwashed /child abused to believe in invisible masters early

swmnguy's picture

Hersh's take makes enough sense to use, I think.  It stays away from the too-tidy, too all-encompassing unified field theories of everything that get people so excited, in spite of what we all know about human stupidity and sloppiness.

A thing to consider is, why Russia?  Why would Brennan and the Dems think that was clever?  

I'm guessing it's because they know Trump has a money trail to hide, leading to Russian figures he doesn't want to have to acknowledge.  I think that was Trump's first, and potentially fatal, mistake.  Anybody who knows anything about what happened in the high-end real estate market in New York and every other world-class city in the 1990s knows the Russian mob and Oligarchs stole everything they could steal in Russia and laundered it thorugh high-end real estate worldwide.  It would be no surprise to learn that Trump had some of that money pass through his hands and stick to his fingers.  He should have divested, acknowledged what he had to acknowledge, and disclosed his personal finance statements.  He didn't have to, but his refusal highlighted a vulnerability of some kind to people who don't do anything but find and exploit other people's vulnerabilities.  Had Trump done this, this whole Russia thing would have fizzled well over a year ago.

But as for Seth Rich, I think Hersh's explanation makes more sense than anything else I've heard, from either hyperventilating partisans or the sweep-it-under-the-rug brigade.

MrBoompi's picture

They picked Russia for a couple of reasons.  Russia fucked over the US in its Syrian ghost war.  They are a roadblock to western globalist hegemony and are being targeted using all available methods, including economic sanctions, wet works, NATO agression, and psyops.  Secondly, the Russian hacking psyop is hard to disprove unless we discover who actually did leak to Wikileaks.  And this is what they are trying to prevent at all costs.  

Whoa Dammit's picture

I think they picked Russia for a simpler reason. Russians have been the go to bad guys in books, movies and TV shows in America since the McCarthy days. Even JFK was supposedly shot by a guy with ties to Russia. Therefore most Americans will not question a Russian bad guy narrative.

Kobe Beef's picture

 

"It was Ivan Drago, in the election booth, with a candlestick," sayeth CNN. And a million morons nodded in agreement.

Why did the Jew World Order pick Russia?

Look at history. Since the collapse of the USSR, how many kinetic actions (illegal undeclared wars, coups, Color Revolutions, etc) have been perpetrated against Russian allies? Yugoslavia, for starters. Iraq, even though Saddam brought most of that shit on himself. Georgia, Ukraine, Syria. This is of the top of my head, btw. I'm sure I've left out a few.

Recent history shows a clear pattern of removal of Russian allies and encirclement of Russian territory. This is not debatable. The facts are evident in the multitude of actions taken, and the steady progression of military assets into the Russian sphere.

The why is debatable, the End Game is open to speculation, but there is no question that the Masters of the Internationale have indeed chosen Russia as the Enemy.

And the latest 98-2 vote in the Senate is clear confirmation. The Republicucks can't figure out Obamacare, nor Immigration policy, nor Tax Cuts, nor confirming open Cabinet Positions, nor anything else regarding the interests of The American People, but they can all agree on overt Acts of War against a rival nuclear power. It's foolhardy, aggressive, and totally unnecessary.

 

Mr Trump, If you're listening, you need to set up primary campaigns against Republicucks in every Senate and House seat across the nation, yesterday. Task Bannon, your premier campaign architect with it. Find Trump Republicans, and stump for them. Unseat JWO puppets, and seat American Nationalists, or they're taking us into WWIII with you isolated in the White House. End Lindsey Graham and John McCain, or they end you.

 

 

Bete Noire's picture

Put on your Smedley Butler glasses and think 'Nordstream'....

Yog Soggoth's picture

Oh yeah, Seth was an average joe that got shot in a bad nieghborhood. Let's start where Hersh is wrong. The hood was not that bad. Seth was the Voter Expansion Data Director working on a curious program called Python and a tool called PANDA (his favorite bear). Hillary stated in the leaked emails some code about a charming interloper was like a panda trying to grab a vase, shoot the panda? Then there was the Podesta email about making an example of leaks whether they are legitimate or not. Everyone except the DNC agrees he was the leak. His job would have given him the data to realize that Hillary was commiting election fraud and damning his candidates future (Bernie). He also found out about the fraudulent votes, like dead people and illegals.

Hillary Clinton may have committed election fraud - Medium.    Hersch also does not mention the damaged watch which was designed to hide thumbnails, and was damaged in the robbery, but not taken. I could go on and on about how simplistic and unbelievable his account is. You have not even read other people's research, so how can you state that anything makes sense unless your conclusion is that it is natural for people to die when they have evidence of the Clintons breaking the law?
Kobe Beef's picture

But it is natural for people to die when they have evidence of Clintons breaking the law. Happens all the time.

 

But it is not just. And that whole Crime family needs to be lashed to the Washington Monument and burned alive.

Akzed's picture

Yet here we are talking about THIS aspect of the whole story instead of the contents of the emails in question. That's pretty much the unifiying negative energy driving the MSM's narrative on the email saga: don't discuss the contents of the emails.

XWeatherman's picture

According to George Webb, the murder could have been done in the hospital instead of on the street.

Giant Meteor's picture

Concocted by Brennan ..

Indeed, and not much of a stretch at that ..

To me, crass as it may sound, this is one of those "no shit" moments ..

Akzed's picture

The problem with reporters having govt sources doing them favors is that it works both ways.

 

seek's picture

"that can't be what the dnc and the deep state want people to think."

Probably not, but this could also be the limited hangout. (And seriously, if this is the limited hangout, can you imagine how bad the truth is?)

The timing of this, though...anyone want to start a dead pool on Wasserman or anyone named Aman?

Kobe Beef's picture

They can't die fast (or painfully) enough, far as I'm concerned.

So It Goes's picture

Well I think I know what Hersh means about the murder of Seth Rich.  In the gang community - you may have to "make your bones" by killing a random person.  Then the gang knows you are for real.  The Seth Rich murder could be a random gang initiation.  The boy-aged killers would not necessarily need to take his wallet.

Off topic - the reason I left DC was because I was robbed at gunpoint (2001).  Coming home from the gym one night I was forced to park in my designated parking spot in the alley behind my rented condo (there was no street parking that night).  As I was opening the trunk to get my bag a thug showed me his silvery pistol in his waist band and said "wallet".  Unarmed, I thought "is this where I die - an alley in DC?"  I complied which was the advice of the time.  Eventually I called the police (there were no cell phones at the time).  A young guy dressed down in T-shirt and jeans knocked on my door and asked me for a description - I guess he was under cover.  A few minutes later, a uniformed officer in a squad car took me for a ride through all the neighborhood alleys to see if I could identify the assailant.

My robbery took place just before Christmas.  This is an especially hazardous time for law abiding citizens as poor people need money for the presents for their kids.  To get any racial bias out of the way - the robber was black.  The dressed down undercover guy was white.  The uniformed officer was black.  The burly squad car driver was clearly pissed off because robbing professional, wealthy, and tax paying white guys is really bad for the D/C bottom line.  During this ride through alleys I would never go alone I felt totally safe.  No fear when you are with an armed official police guard - just go anywhere!

I moved out to Virginia shortly thereafter - never to return.  So it goes.

Killdo's picture

I lived in Alexandria, VA and someone stole my creditcard and maxed it out - but it took me years to figurre out because I have never heard from the bank - the GAP card was delivered to my old address. Never happended to me anywhere else. DC is a shithole of fraud

Atomic Punk's picture

No more FROZENNUTZ. FROM now on you'll be called... NUMBNUTZ!

xrxs's picture

Seth has been dead over twice as long as you've been on ZH.

GUS100CORRINA's picture

Seymour Hersh: "RussiaGate Is A CIA-Planted Lie, Revenge Against Trump"

My response: ABSOLUTELY TRUE!!!!!! We are dealing with an inner group of malevolent people (DEEP STATE) who are working for an EVIL master with a veiled set of goals that include the destruction and control of the REPUBLIC.

OPEN "IN-YOUR-FACE" TYRANNICAL LAWLESSNESS.

====

In a society where all lies, all deceptions, all corruptions are accepted, that society will lose control of everything. Chaos will begin to take over, and the only way that chaos will be slowed down will be when dictatorial control, or maybe even a police state is formed, where thought and behavior is fixed, and anybody out of bounds is punished. Eventually, the chaos has to be controlled. We’re not headed toward socialism; we could very well be headed toward a dictatorship in our world. Is this hard to grasp?

Chupacabra-322's picture

@ GUS,

To reiterate, it's absolutely, completely, open in your Face
Tyrannical Lawlessness.

The Criminal Fraud UNITED STATES, CORP. INC. & its affiliates at the Criminal Fraud STATE / LOCAL Municipalites BOND markets predicates that we are a Nation of Law not Men.

Hence, the "Full Faith & Credit" (Birth Certificate) of the American People (Consenting IMF Citizen Slave).

We've now incrementally evolved into a Nation of Men.
The Emperor is Stark Naked.

How soon before the Global Bond Markets expoldes is anyone's guess.
Full Faith the Collapse is eminent.

vulcanraven's picture

LOL! The deep state tentacles are doing everything they can to make sure Trump and his "administration" will never get any real "WORK" done. 

Bill of Rights's picture

You mean Heil Hitler don't you Urine stain?

Billy the Poet's picture

God wants war with Russia? Who knew?

On second thought maybe it's not God that you've been talking to.

jeff montanye's picture

and much work is being done in spite of "the resistance".

when i explained to people why i was voting for donald trump, my first reason was usually because he's not hillary clinton.  and that still is way up there.  he's clearly fucked up on russia, but that may be the price he pays to avoid assassination or the 25th amendment or impeachment.  how would i know?

but enormous progress is being made in forming an alternative press, in educating even the most recalcitrant of sheeple and in starting to slowly feed into the legal wood chipper the likes of imran awan, next debbie wasserman schultz, next . . . .?

redmudhooch's picture

Yep, Deep State and establishment are being exposed right in front of our eyes. People are paying attention.

No way any of this would be happening under Hillary. We are still armed to the teeth too by the way.

America is waking up, all the ADL Youtube Twitter censoring is gonna backfire big time on them.

They're literally digging their own graves right before our eyes.

Yes, I do consider that WINNING.

Winston Churchill's picture

They will have to be buried in their garves for this to change.

Power will only be taken from their cold, dead hands.

Civil war 2.0 or WWIII,are the only ways out of the spot we're now in

Giant Meteor's picture

I tend to agree with both of these assessments, not that that counts for much. Still, it is good to see the layers of the onion pulled back, and revealing it's rotten core ..

All this means , to my way of thinking, a major conflageration of some scope and extent, which if one is keeping score, is BUILDING in real time, day by day, or in some cases, minute by minute ..