What if some like-minded people on ZeroHedge decided to create a new community?

hedgeless_horseman's picture

“Community is not something you have, like pizza. Nor is it something you can buy. It's a living organism based on a web of interdependencies- which is to say, a local economy. It expresses itself physically as connectedness, as buildings actively relating to each other, and to whatever public space exists, be it the street, or the courthouse or the village green.”  

-James Howard Kunstler
The Geography of Nowhere: The Rise and Decline of America's Man-Made Landscape


I have mentioned before that my favorite book by ZH contributor, James Howard Kunstler, is his non-fiction work, The Geography of Nowhere.  He does a great job of describing many of the problems of our current living arrangements, and how they came about.  The solutions to these problem, however, are much more difficult to come by.  

Let's imagine that I have identified a small town in Texas, with a population of less than 2,000 people.  It is on a waterway and railway, has fertile soil, receives plenty of rain, and has a long growing season.  It rarely ever snows.  This little town is located at least 100 miles from the big cities, and not on a major interstate.  It was once a vibrant farming and ranching town, with mills, canneries, and meat packing.  There are several large and beautiful old homes and the remains of a central business district.  The area's natural gas fields provide plenty of cheap electricity, and the location also allows for more than 5 kWh/m2/day of solar energy.  The surrounding land is pastoral and very beautiful.  


Ten acres of land, part pasture and part woods, with electric service but no other utilities, costs about $50,000.  A nice home in town with 3 bedrooms, 3 baths, 2 car garage, on a 1/4 acre lot costs about $150,000.  

This is a real estate photo of the type of land surrounding a similiar Texas town.

Sure, most of the area's farmers and ranchers are doing fine.  However, the townsfolk have seen better days.  Most of the people living there are just barely hanging on to life with their social security retirement and government pensions.  On the plus side, there is no Wal-Mart, so the few local businesses are still able to make a go of it.

What if some like-minded people on ZeroHedge decided to create a new community in this town?   Farmville...but not virtual...real!  One of the ZeroHedge Symposium attendees in Marfa referred to this crazy idea as, "Libertyville,"...having the libertarian priorities of maximum freedom...and minimum government.  

James Wesley Rawles wrote a fiction book called, Land of Promise, where a group of Christians with a libertarian bent create their own nation in Africa.  It isn't his best work, but certainly on topic.  The fact is that regular people have colonized actual towns, from scratch, in less than ideal places, since the dawn of civilization, with far fewer resources than are available to us.  

Using the very basic process of ADDIE: Assess, Design, Develop, Implement, and Evaluate, I propose we use the comments section of this article to begin to assess the viability of this idea.  What would be our goals?  What would be the big hurdles?  If the discussion goes well, then we could follow it up with some design articles, more discussion, and so forth.   Some obvious topics are politics and law, commerce, technology, security, education, dealing with the current residents. etc.  

Because it is possible that we may decide to keep the town's identity secret, I will keep it to myself, for the time being.  This is not a real estate investment deal.  It would have zero chance of working if it was. I do not live or own property there, nor have I revealed the town's location to anyone.  You have my word on it.

If the hippies could have communes in the 60's, and the second coming of Jesus has his amazing place in Siberia, today...

...then why can't we have Libertyville?

Now, let's all play for a bit in the comments section!  

Peace, prosperity, love, and liberty,


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HRClinton's picture

While watching the video with Vissarion, I was amused by the narrator's numerous references to Vissarion having a "Christ-like" appearance.  This is troubling:

1. No-one knows what JC looked like -- assuming he existed

2. If YoN ('Yeshua of Nazareth', his real Hebrew/Aramaic name at the time) actually existed, he looked like a ME person, not like a European hipster.  In fact, the "European Jesus" we have beenconditioned to (brainwashed) is actually based on a commissioned portrait1 of Cesare Borgia2, the son of Rodrigo Lanzol y de Borja, aka Pope Alexander VI3

    1  Portraits of Cesare Borgia and Jesus   http://pin.it/-lNRiDt  and  http://pin.it/Y0qLbj_


    3  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Alexander_VI

His real image probably looked like this: http://pin.it/IlIv-_k, and odds are that you do not want to sit next to a man on an airplane who dressed and smelled like a ME peasant from 2000 years ago.  Cut the self-righteous crap, but you wouldn't. If you're honest with yourself.

What the video does confirm though, is my suspicion that you need to have a strong Common Belief System for an IC to endure for many years.  For it to grow, its size must grow exponentially and along with it, so too must its organizational complexity. Which requires an exponential amount of natural resources.  Before you know it, you have a nation-state or tribal-state.


Father Roch's picture

So please,  count me in, or very interested.  I have minimally explored the cocept in past twelve months with others.  I think it is a great idea.  and very doable with the right people.  

Things needed:  Monetary capital, human capital, desire, similar goals, someone who knows something about farming and ranching, cool rules





Father Roch's picture

So please, let's get this party started.

I think you need at least 6 to 8 serious parties. Which means you need 20 to 30 interested parties. Lets start talking.  And then we see who's all hat and no cattle.


One of the thorny issues will be the how to purchase and own the land.  As the community grows, we will likely need/want a variety of skills to complement our land ownership and farming/ranching capabilities.  We may really need doctors – and I use a broad definition:


People doctor -- MD

Animal Doctor -- veterinarian

Machine doctor - mechanic

Land doctor – farmer/rancher

Mental health professional – brewer/distiller and bartender


I am Irish so I should be able to learn beer making skills.

HRClinton's picture

An IC is not only possible, but have been going on for thousands of years. 

I'd first decide in the Purpose and Mandate of the IC.

Then why reinvent the wheel, when you can and should Benchmark first, to leverage their Best Practices and Lessons Learned.

Third:  NO Toxic Mindsets. You want peeps with a healthy body, mind and psyche. People who already believe in and practice Improvement principles and practices. This eliminates most ZH peeps, judging by the comments. 

I will write more on all this in my email.

wisehiney's picture

They/we would ride carriage back.

All the way.

To really fine horse races, and endless feasts, and architecture.

And pursuit of excellence.

Do you really believe what hollywood and your teacher tells you?

Stop at every tavern, along the road.

That was cleared by every one that wished to travel it.

Dragged the wagon up the fucking mountain.

And down the other.

And the hurricane "victims" had it worse?

Only if they are indomitable.

No comparison.

So long and good night.

And TN, Nashville.

Our children were butchered in front of our families for years on end.

Sort of forgotten bravery.

And one sided story.

But, children, do not cheat yourself of the tricky truths of all history.

And take pride in what a Pioneer was.

And is.

So much to tell, so little time to tell it.



That is totally forgotten.

Except by drunken story tellers.

And when they got back to here.

On those Patriot roads.

By God.

The progenitor of Secretariat, Seabiscuit,Man of War, Barbaro, endless.

We lost a finer blood line in that damn war.

My fucking family.

And our fucking Champion Thourobreds.

Try telling that.

But they thundered these high pastures.

And it is greater than the English stories of Camelot.

The ancient Indians, the Soldiers of the Revolution,

For the yanks sake, let's leave out the Bravest of History 1861-1865.

But Washington's men of Valley Forge.

Flow down here on nights like this.

With the only tribe that was smart enough to stay the fuck away from the white man.


It is worse for the Southern White man, my red brother.

Of course you know, that scumbag yellowhair custer had not one Southerner ridingwith him.

Good riddance my friends Crazy Horse and Sitting Bull.

We had the same fucking enemy that the world faces now.

N'est ce pas?

wisehiney's picture

Thanks HH. I missed most of this. Either HonestAnn has been holding out on us, or I have missed some. Not that it wasn't great stuff before. But wow. 

Anyhow, between us, the way my folks found the last frontier and settled every Southern State very early.

What you write of.

Has been there, beneath your feet, with my close blood.

There oldest TX tombstones tell the tale, and they ususally mention this old town up here.

Sometimes there is just too much to tell.

The first baby born in Texas, on the day of Santa Anna's defeat,

Was delivered by my kin.

Who stayed behind the fellas because he was needed.

But he had a handful of family members and first Rangers of Texas picking up his slack.

I badly need to connect with an Arabian.

wisehiney's picture

Here's hoping that the old dance hall and live oak in Victoria still stand tall and wide.


nukeaduke's picture

Only practical, and fast & easy, way to do something like this is one or a couple people buy a couple square miles and they sell off 20 or 40 acre plots to known people of their acquantance who share their ideals and principles. Those new people can also submit others for consideration. If any rules, there might be something where property can't be re-sold or leased to another before original seller gets first-refusal to buy back for same originally sold price for 5 or 10 years, if they don't know or like who else might want to buy it. Can't control every which way intial ideal might get diluted over time, but don't want to get so stringent it defeats purpose of owning property and doing with it what you want. 

atlasRocked's picture

One need only look at Catalonia if you want to see how the larger state treats those wishing to live differently. 

Stinkbug 1's picture


Putin (and Russia) is still offering free land to approved immigrants, the Russian Homestead Act.


It's only 2.5 acres per person, but for a group, it might work.

The northern climate would assure that all your future generations will stay very white.

atlasRocked's picture

Huge problem  "Libertyville will still reside inside of a County, which resides inside of a State. "

That's why only a conventionofstates.com, and a top-down restoring of the republic, will work. 

Darth Rayne's picture

Once people start to actually consider what they think they know, your community will come to exist everywhere.

Or we get a major simultaneous global trade collapse, banking collapse and government collapse and those who survive will be those living in or quickly developing the type of community you describe.

We need a rebalancing of society and civilisation, of self and others. I have written more about this here https://davidwatkinson.blogspot.co.uk/2017/09/who-am-i-prepare-yourself-....

roadhazard's picture

I hung out at Morning Star commune in the Green Mt's of Vermont for a very short while in the early seventies. It was far out man... but it got old fast. Turned out it was on the property of some old guy who must have had millions and wanted to surround himself with young hippie chicks. He had a Winter Morning Star commune on his property somewhere in Fla.  I had to give that old dude credit he had his shit together for as long as it lasted.

I hear there are communities of white ex cops in Idaho.... more pussy at Morning Star

Fishy Rickster's picture

I live in an exclusive gated community with my wife, several miles from the nearest commercial enterprise in the lands of which the author promotes.  With that, I have neighbors who preceded my geopolitical choice by several generations.  We together have celebrated community and national events, as Americans have from our founding.  We may not be Pentecostal, yet we recognize an understanding of a relationship with God, because his work is all about us.  With that, if a group decides to join us here, I would ask that such members consider leaving their metropolitan baggage behind, or your new abode will be a lonely and unfulfilling place.

_SILENCER's picture

Sure would be nice to live in a place free of muslims, liberals, gun grabbers, gang bangers, and generally very other type of nitwit, yet filled with real god loving patriots, cowboy hat wearing women, and lotsa guns.

Honest Sam's picture

I'm too discriminating for someting like that.  I don't like most of the 366,000,000 strangers on the planet and I don't even know them. 

The notion of 'commune' automatically means, to me, a curtailment of certain freedoms. I doubt I could do as I do now, get my telescope and focus it on the 20 yr old, hottie in her bedroom down the street.  Nor could I poison the cat 3 doors down that deposits the most awful looking things on my doorstep.

Prefer to be anonymous most of the time.


pupton's picture

HH, et. al., This is already underway.  Please review the following:





hedgeless_horseman's picture


Yes, I am aware.  Apparently, traveling to foreign lands and killing people of another race and destroying their homes is not considered to be promoting violence or racial hatred.




What kind of people are not welcome as Participants of the Free State Project?

Anyone who promotes violence, racial hatred, or bigotry is not welcome. This is also grounds for the revocation of your Participant status.


I'm in the armed forces. How would I declare my move to the Free State?

Active-duty personnel can select a "home of record." This home of record may be in any state, and you are allowed to vote in that state's elections by absentee ballot. Or you may select New Hampshire as your "state of legal residence," which is the determining factor for income and personal property taxation, voting, and any other legal resident purposes. This new state of legal residence remains in effect until abandoned through the overt act of selecting a different one.


The criteria for selecting a new "legal residence" while in the military is having a "presence" there and actions demonstrating intent, the most definitive of which is registering to vote. However, it is not technically necessary to actually live there at the time of selection. Simply owning property upon which you pay taxes can establish a legal address and then registering to vote at that address is sufficient.

Stinkbug 1's picture

I would love to have most of you as neighbors, stories around the campfire at night...... Nice.

But....  "Anyone who promotes violence, racial hatred, or bigotry is not welcome...."

Wouldn't that make it look about like what we've got now?

Those 3 things that you forbid are the backbone of the tree of life in the animal kingdom.  

Personally, I've been busy killing fire ants today, a recent immigrant to this area and to this continent. They breed exponentially, like muslims.  I first tried organic approved bait, and the fuckers just piled it up off to one side next to the pile of dead bodies they had incurred in our last battle.  Now I'm trying a propane torch. I rather like the smell of fried ant eggs in the morning.  This whole project has taken on the feel of a Joseph Conrad novel "Heart of Darkness".  They had colonized my dreams as of last night.  Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Other than the fire ants, this area is perfect. Our well digger said we were sitting on an underground river, the water is pure and abundant.  The soil holds water well, in that a pond that will hold water can be dug most anywhere. There are only a couple of traffic lights in the whole county, which is 95% white with a high poverty rate due to job displacement.  It's not far from our infamous outlaw friend, John MacAfee, who chose this area when he abandoned South America. 

Best wishes to all.

hedgeless_horseman's picture


Those 3 things that you forbid are the backbone of the tree of life in the animal kingdom.  

Not me.  

That is copied from the Free State website linked in my comment.

44_shooter's picture

Either the HedglesHorseman isn't very old, or is very, very naive.

When I was a kid, I used to like to draw pictures of fortresses inside of mountains, with secret entrances and rooms.

Grow up.



hedgeless_horseman's picture


When I was a kid, I used to like to draw pictures of fortresses inside of mountains, with secret entrances and rooms.

Now, as an adult, the best you can come with is a straw man argument?


wisehiney's picture

Man o War's was my thing.

But my favorite was the Niagra class brig, USS Lawrence.

44_shooter's picture

Folly, juvenile and naive.

A strawman argument? Maybe YOU should read what the definition is, or perhaps look up the word "opinion", which by the way mine is already lower of you now than before.

My statement is made as a comparison of my thoughts as a child to your thoughts about your little utopia.

Your town can't write laws that supersede county or state or federal regulations. A true libertarian believes a racist has the right to open a store and hang a sign outside that says no blacks allowed. It's their business, their rules - but that doesn't quite jive with federal anti-discrimination laws does it?

"like minded" is a broad term. One might say guys in the military are like minded, after all they all volunteered to join the military right? They all like guns and must support the constitution? But as you know soldiers are far from like minded.

Because you don't currently live in your secret utopia, whose to say you are like minded with the individuals who might have been there all their lives? How libertarian it is of you to come and force what YOU think on them, on their town?

You sound like a Joe Nobody, Rawles or Forstchen story. Grow up kid.

Seeing Red's picture

HH -- constructive criticism like this is useful (arguably even precious).  Maybe the main/official premise of the town/enclave/villa should be somewhat economic, so everyone at least has related work goals -- this will help everyone get along as they're on the same team and share financial incentives.  This could overlap with the "camouflage shtick" I mentioned in another post (higher up).  Might also make it easier to keep those you deem undesirable out.

Argentumentum's picture



Literally thousands of hectares of land available to start a community..  Why Santa Catarina?  

1. SC is the most developed and economically stable state of Brazil, therefore, has still more positive outlook on economy and real estate market, despite of deepening economic depression worldwide, including in Brazil. Brazil also survived Great Depression of 1930-s easier than other countries.

2. Brazil is very foreign-investment friendly. Foreigners can own 100% of the property (a few exceptions may be there) and in property dealings the law of the land puts them on par with native Brazilians.

3. The climate of the country is not only conducive to one’s personal well-being but because it is warm almost through the year, Brazil attracts millions of tourists. The rental market offers splendid opportunities through the year because of Brazil’s perfect climate.

4. Coast of Brazil has traditionally been the hotspot for tourists, the exodus is now towards the South East of Brazil and there is a lucrative property market in Santa Catarina. Massive investments have already been planned in resorts and golf courses along the coast line and the rental market is only expected to grow.

5. The cost of living is low when compared to developed international destinations.

6. The infrastructure in Brazil is good. There are decent roads, medical facilities etc.

7. With the energy crisis looming large in most countries around the world, Brazil is self-sufficient in oil and other forms of energy. Even more important is food and water security and unlike most countries, Brazil does have this security of FEW-resources.

8. Construction costs are much less than what they are in the United States and Europe.

9. Brazil is extremely beautiful country with diverse landscape and its beaches are world-famous.

10. Brazilians are fun-loving and friendly people. The cities are vibrant and throbbing with music and carnivals.

11. No threats of natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis etc.), „international terrorism”, war.

12. Real estate market in this region is expected to grow because Brazilian real estate market (mortgage based) development is not fully developed – due to high interest rates banks have not given out loans massively, therefore, if they start doing so, we will witness a rapid growth of real estate prices in certain regions.

13. Many factors (especially energy, food and water security) give this region of Brazil a quality of a Life Hedge destinaton. Excellent life hedge properties are still available and are not expensive.

500 000 Brl will buy a permanent residency in Santa Catarina. Look up „Serra Catarinense”, „beaches of Santa Catarina”, images. Look up http://visa4brazil.com/


44_shooter's picture

Strike 1

In Brazil, all firearms are required to be registered with the minimum age for gun ownership being 25.


Strike 2

It is generally illegal to carry a gun outside a residence, and a special permit granting the right to do so is granted to certain groups, such as law enforcement officers.


Strike 3

The government of Brazil is considered a federal representative democratic republic


No thanks. Keep it.

duffelpud's picture

Six years ago we purchased a heavily wooded tract of acreage ten miles from where the Texas Declaration of Independence was signed.  We cleared a road to the interior by hand and then designed and constructed a cabin and barn - also by hand.  Power comes from several solar arrays and water from a rain collection system.  We don't live there yet, but spend a significant amount of our time and money improving it every month.  I'm not certain why we did this.  Shortly after starting the project I remember striking up a conversation with a fellow at a local bar.   He said he was doing the same thing and wasn't sure why, either.  Something just 'told' us we needed to prepare.  Around the same time a close friend sold his town home and bought a 100 acre tract of land not far from Hye, Texas and did the same thing.


Flankspeed60's picture

Dear HH,

I have to chuckle a bit, not at your obvious good-spirited intentions, but at the basic idea. ZH is a watering hole for divergent personalities, most of whom share a hatred of over-reaching, kleptocratic government and corrupt bankers. Outside of that, I suspect the ZH world represents the usual spectrum of humanity with equally diverse views on personal hygiene, cross-dressing, number of piercings tolerated by the human anatomy, aesthetics of home and garden and what actually constitutes 'furniture' on a front porch, civility, the number of 'fucks' to be used in a single sentence and the decibel level accorded each in a confrontation with another divergent neighbor, personal threshhold for use of firearms against same neighbor, etc. In essence, what you are seeking is a 'convergence of divergence,' which is a paradox, and, at scale, unobtanium. Now, IF you add 'temperament' as a qualifier, you have changed the equation, but added a higher degree of complexity to the selection process.

If your community values tranquility as a maor attribute, I would posit that there is no practical substitute for actually knowing your neighbors beforehand. This suggests a small group of friends with long history together deciding to relocate and forming a defensable, expandable compound within which to raise familes and add friends on a very select basis - something akin to the Amish without the Luddite factor. I am in the process of doing exactly that - and I wish you the very best in your endeavors.

freshanus's picture

hatred of over-reaching, kleptocratic government and corrupt bankers

You say this like it's not the most important thing of all.

HH, plant the marker and those that have the means and desire will go.  Your track record speaks for itself.



44_shooter's picture

The article and its idea is juvenile and naive. 

TeethVillage88s's picture

I can't imagine Moscow, St Petersburg or China being 'free'. But could East Russia be settled if you survive Vladivostok to head further in. Has CIA a plan to colonize East Russia? Oh, maybe they want to handle Ukraine first...

Argentumentum's picture

We should not be talking about countries anymore, only about certain regions...I do know that Brazil has had a lot of bad publicity lately, however, this country is huge and there are some wonderful regions which do not resemble the rest of the country, I have found one! Thousands of hectares of beautiful land, almost perfect climate, water, a lot of it... Originally from Europe, I found a real paradise here ...  Investment of 500 000 Brl gives a right to apply for a permanent residency and bring personal belongings tax free. anybody interested, I will share.

rf80412's picture

Manual labor and the necessity of some degree of authority, coercion, and altruism to keep the community a community rather than people living next door who want nothing to do with each other are the death of every such idea.

The groups who've managed to make intentional communities work for more than a generation are invariably highly motivated by religion or secular ideology and are avowed collectivists.

ElTerco's picture

If a few people are wealthy enough to pitch in for free food to grill every now and a again and they invite the neighbors, that would do the trick at keeping people engaged with one another.

frontierland's picture

Libertyville is an Implicitly White town.

You'll have to keep State & Federal Anti-White Policies from forcing Non-White 'Vibrancy' from moving in next store and turning it into something resembling Baltimore or Dearborn.  Further, given the Demographic Trend of most of the South West, you'll be creating an Implictly White community in a sea of Brown people who will outvote you and your ability to maintain what is good about Libertyville.

I hate to blackpill, but we can't have nice things without adressing the larger problem of Replacement-Level 3rd World immigration.

44_shooter's picture

two upvotes for you but down votes on me saying the idea was naive and juvenile.  Your thoughts are exactly why I say the idea is juvenile and naive.  Libertyville will still reside inside of a County, which resides inside of a State.  You will not be able to have special Libertyville laws.  You will not be able to control who lives in Libertyville, or who goes from Libertyville.  



atlasRocked's picture

Huge problem  "Libertyville will still reside inside of a County, which resides inside of a State. "

That's why only a conventionofstates.com, and a top-down restoring of the republic, will work. 

Lucky Leprachaun's picture

If you create a Whiteopia as you say the vibrants will soon start arriving. The solution is to cut welfare to the bone, make it available only to those who have been in the community for a number of years. 

conraddobler's picture

The Walking Dead is essentially a dramatic fairy tale about the human condition.

If you notice our merry band of Rick followers is continually besieged by exactly what everyone around here is bitching about and to combat all that they have really only a few basic human essentials that boil down to loyalty and humanity.

It's the essence of what is to come.

They've tried walling themselves off and in the end it never works.

What worked here in the USA was to gain power, enough power to resist any foe and that power ultimately ensnared the group attempting the escape.

It's the wheel of human existence.

You seek power to avoid the powerful and in doing so you become exactly what you are trying to avoid.

The answer is to relinquish all control other than that of your own actions and only by enough of us acting in this way can we ever hope to forge a better future.

It is the ONLY WAY.

I assure you that if you build such a place, embedded into that will be latent if not outright active psychopaths using the cover of whatever new rules you establish to begin their rise to power.

Humans should learn eventually that they can never give power to anyone for any length of time as it will corrupt the person it's given to every time.

Most people mean well, the road to hell is paved with the best of intentions, but in the end it's the power that must forever be retained in each individual that is the fight.

Each and every one of us are equal sovereign units of conciousness.  That is not something you can delegate to another under any circumstances for any length of time other than incapicitation or death.

Domination of others is the bane of our existence and people not standing up for their own rights is what causes all of our problems.

fulliautomatix's picture

Three: eating people is wrong, we don't eat people.

FreeNewEnergy's picture

Well, too many comments and not enough forward motion. I love HH's optimism, enthusiasm, and idealism, but, from where I sit, on my 5.7 acres in Wayne County, NY (town of Sodus), I don't see myself moving to Texas soon.

Here's why:

I'm really happy here. West of me is the road (900 ft frontage) and a 30 acres field (usually wheat, corn, or soybeans), South of me is 15 acres of farmland not currently in use. East of me (beyond my own stream) is 15 acres of woods. North of me is my one neighbor, a retired Air Force grunt (50s?) who never bothers me at all, ever. His house is a football field away, but I'm in the process of building a huge wall, to the delight of both of us. So, I've already got my little slice of paradise.

Community exists here on ZH (clese enough for me) and in the friends I've cultivated in the oocal community. Lots of Trump supporters, gun toters, farmers, handymen, a few (well, one, actually) women that are tolerable. Enough for me.

The price of land in Texas is absurd. $50k of 10 acres? WTF? I bought my acreage for $14K, less than $3k per acre and people told me that was high. Looking at 10 acres about 1 1/2 miles from here with a run-down house on it, for $49k. Won't sell for that price. Maybe $35. The house needs tons of work. I'd probably live in it, though, and gradually fix it up.

Land around here goes for $2000/acre, not $5k/acre. Taxes, in NY are absurd, but mine are under $700 a year. I live entirely on solar, propane and wood stove. Camper, motorhome, multiple shitters. Did I mention a stream?

Lastly, for me, anyhow, the time has come to go "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" route. I'm establishing a corporation, mainly to defeat the IRS and SS income requirements imposed upon me for retiring early. Probably should have done it two years ago, but, I've been pretty busy with things. I'm going to make a lot of money (my goal is $1 million net in cash and silver in 5 years) and not worry about money ever again. I'm 63. I'll be 68 when I make my goal. Should be more than enough to last me until I hit the dirt permanently.

I enjoy the comraderie here on ZH, plan on meeting with some of you folks at next years ZH gathering at HH's place if there is one, but have my roots in place and have moved too many times in my life already to want to do it again. I'll come and visit, though.

Wishing everybody all the best, always.

Keep stacking and don't stop trying.

Mr. Universe's picture

I'm glad that you are happy in Upstate NY. I lived about 100 miles east of you while in the Air Farce. Beautiful area, dazzling springtime, warm summers, colorful fall. One problem, winter. One that seemingly lasts half the year. Add in all the snow, the below zero temps and I left as soon as I could get out of there. Good luck to you though.

TeethVillage88s's picture

Heard there was good hunting in New York State like 28 years ago. I guess you need 4 wheel drive to deal with the Snow, so you can plow yourself.

I swear I heard land was like $500 an Acre in Upper Michigan maybe 25 years ago. I guess you want to live close enough to town to get cable, phone, electricity, sewer... so that means a house not a camper or motor home, means smaller acreage and higher cost of investment, increases in property taxes & utilities.

- I should look more at living off the grid, alcohol stills, power production

fulliautomatix's picture

I can lend two observations, if you like:

Lies ruin the efiiciency of your communications.

Wars bankrupt nations.

Bemused Observer's picture

If you would plan on staying in this country, you would need to adopt a survival strategy for an 'outlier' entity trying to live within a larger entity. In nature, that means one of 2 things...either you are a fetus, or you are an invader. A community like this would be the latter. Even if your motives are not hostile to the host, you can expect the usual 'immune' response from society. So basically, you'd have to adopt one of the strategies used by invading organisms that wish to establish within a host...

1) You must avoid triggering the immune response in your host. Don't give LE any excuses to monitor you, don't 'stand out' among locals (to the extent you can) pay all taxes, fees, etc, respond to all official inquiries, and obey all applicable laws.

2) Encapsulation. Creating a cyst-like protected environment, with a boundry between 'inside' and 'outside'. Note: This does not protect you from the responses you may get to the encapsulation itself, sometimes the efforts create so much inflammation and irritation that the host declares war. Walling one's self off can protect, but can also make one more vulnerable to attack. (See Waco) 

3) Try to appear harmless. It is the damage you do to surrounding tissues and organs that makes the host declare war. That host has no problem with 'others', it only responds to damage done. So, do no damage, not physical, not emotional, not social, and you can live quite happily as just another 'gut flora'. One can also take the 'no harm' directive a step further, and provide an actual benefit to the host...bring something new to the table. Here is where a clever, talented invader with some REAL ambitions and a Machiavellian bent might take the mitochondrial path, becoming so useful they end up running the show. But a community like this would likely not have this as a goal. I'm thinking they'd want 'safe and separate'...

Now here's where that fetus comes in handy...because that little guy is both safe and separate. How does he do it? Well, first he does all of the above. But then he does the most important thing...he gets the fuck OUT when his welcome has worn out. Because as long as he remains inside, he may be safe, and separate, but he will never be free, never be 'his own man'.


What I'm saying is that you can't truly have the kind of community you envision here. You could likely build a fairly serviceable facsimile that would function for awhile, but, as others have pointed out, it would likely descend into petty squabbling, power-plays, and desertions.

Oh, and when I say 'here', I don't mean USA-here, I mean Earth-here...The moment we start drawing up rules and deciding who is to enforce them is the moment it becomes clear we've lost the plot. Another poster mentioned something about a society developing 'organically', as opposed to being planned out. I think he makes a good point in that some things MUST develop that way, they can't be controlled. By seeking to deliberately create such a place, you'll inevitably end up making all the same mistakes made by the society you are running from. Because THEY had Utopia in mind too, once upon a time. But they never had faith, never truly BELIEVED, and so couldn't relinquish control.

tion's picture

You make some good points but as was previously pointed out in the comments here, in some of these communities even as an individual coming in to a slower going area where most people have generational history, you could easily be seen as an outsider for a decade plus regardless of your mindfulness towards the hosts immune system.  Sure, you could just accept that fate, but if people are going to look at me like I'm some sort of alien forever, I'd rather have a handful of like-minded aliens nearby to hang out with. 

Also, a large degree of apathy has set into many of these communities that have led to widespread drug and alcohol problems.  There is a lack of innovation and creative thought.  A lot of "Don't bother trying, it will fail" mindset.  An acceptance of poor circumstances.  Despondency.  I would rather have some like-minded aliens nearby who would rather build cool shit together from time to time than numb out on soma.  I think some people have a misconception on who would show up.  This idea that some culty commune is intended is also strange to me.

I think a lot of people here support voluntaryism.  I wouldn't think this would be about going into a community and forcing different ways on them.  But also not about erecting up a wall against them, us vs. them, "It's a small club and you're not welcome" attitude.  Most of the time I just want to be left alone and I leave other people alone.  I help others when I can and don't when I can't.  If someone wants to come check out something I'm working out, awesome, my door is open, I will rouse myself to be a good host, but if they want to keep coming over to tell me "You can't do that, you will fail, because no reason just reasons in general and ain't nobody done it like that before" and you let them know that they can kindly fuck off, the whole sleepy town will be whispering behind your back for years about it. Ugh.

There are opportunities for economies of scale that present themselves when entrepreneurial people come together as well. Whether it’s beer, wine, commercial kitchen, meat, goods, it can be hard to justify going through all the red tape and putting the capital in to build out if you don’t really need an exclusive facility yet or ever, having other start-ups to contract out facilities to during off-times or contract services out to can help ease the burden.


As far as adding value to the community already in place goes, I think it's better to look at high value niche products that appeal to wealthy yuppies and foreigners whether that be in Ag or soft goods, but I wouldn’t mind doing something like what the Napa restaurants do and offering a steep discount to locals.  Offering classes on things if people are interested could be cool too.  Besides being a fun community thing it could actually help pre-select interested potential employees/contractors instead of dealing with the drugged out no show no results folks.

I am a bit of a Texas tard in all regards, water/transport/ag/mfg/code, sad to see that the acreage spreads there make my timber forest a no go lol, but can try to get a lay of the land and try to come up with some good sauce.  

Panem et Circus's picture

This is actually pretty good, but far better for individuals to employ rather than a group. 1, 2, & 3 above, plus providing an actual benefit to the existing host but doing so as an individual not as a community. Immune systems are far more likely to be triggered by an outsider that's genuinely trying to help the host, as opposed to a group of them (see both "TEA Party" and "OWS").