CIA Director Met With NSA Whistleblower Who Disputes Russia's Role In DNC Hack

Tyler Durden's picture

One year ago, we introduced readers to William Binney, a former high-ranking NSA official turned whistleblower with an interesting theory: Binney believes the intelligence community’s assessment that Russia-linked hackers stole emails from the DNC as they pushed to sway the election in Trump’s favor is bullshit.

The real story, he says, is that a DNC insider stole the emails by downloading them manually from the DNC’s server onto a hard drive. Binney says he arrived at this conclusion after conducting an independent analysis of the metadata from the emails with a particular eye toward timestamps that he says indicate a download speed consistent with loading the files onto a thumb drive.

Binney’s views have been vigorously rebutted by the intelligence community, which has accused him of cynically advancing his theory to benefit President Trump, whom he supported during the election.

But now, it appears Binney’s theory is being discussed at the highest levels within the CIA after the Intercept reported that CIA Director Mike Pompeo met with Binney late last month under the advisement of President Donald Trump.

Mike Pompeo

The meeting, as the Intercept noted, has caused something of a stir in the intelligence community, as several agents dished that they were worried Pompeo’s politics were superseding his interest in preserving our national security - an extremely serious charge to make under cover of anonymity.

However, given the Mueller probe’s recent turn toward investigating Trump associates’ alleged financial crimes and other allegations unrelated to the campaign, and the growing skepticism surrounding the Clinton’s and their conduct during the campaign and during Hillary Clinton’s tenure as Secretary of State, and investigators’ seeming reluctance to elaborate on how they know what they know (which one might expect them to do given the seriousness of the allegations) it’s unsurprising that Trump would get frustrated.

Of course, this isn’t the first time Pompeo has expressed skepticism about Russia’s involvement in the DNC hack, and in trying to influence the election more broadly...

More recently, at a Washington event in October, Pompeo said that U.S. intelligence had determined that Moscow’s intervention hadn’t impacted the outcome of the election. He was quickly criticized for the comments, and the CIA had to issue a clarification saying that the intelligence assessment on Russia hadn’t been altered.


Pompeo’s meeting with Binney came just days before the first charges from Mueller’s investigation were made public on October 30.

...Which in turn has alarmed some of his colleagues at the CIA.

However the meeting came about, the fact that Pompeo was apparently willing to follow Trump’s direction and invite Binney to discuss his analysis has alarmed some current and former intelligence officials.

“This is crazy. You’ve got all these intelligence agencies saying the Russians did the hack. To deny that is like coming out with the theory that the Japanese didn’t bomb Pearl Harbor,” said one former CIA officer.

Binney, for his part, is happy that the meeting occurred and eager to help Pompeo and Trump get to the bottom of the DNC email theft. As he points out, the intelligence community helped Bush justify the war in Iraq with intelligence they knew to be unreliable. Who’s to say - given the clues that initially sparked Binney’s doubt - that something similar isn’t happening with Russia.

One thing’s for sure: Trump’s support for warmer relations with Russia immediately alienated the intelligence agencies and foreign policy establishment, which have always been deeply suspicious of Russia.

“I was willing to meet Pompeo simply because it was clear to me the intelligence community wasn’t being honest here,” Binney said, referring to their assessment of the DNC email theft. “I am quite willing to help people who need the truth to find the truth and not simply have deceptive statements from the intelligence community."

Binney said that Pompeo asked whether he would be willing to meet with NSA and FBI officials to further discuss his analysis of the DNC data theft, suggesting that there may be some institutional follow-up.

Of course, the CIA’s comms department has insisted that Pompeo supports the community’s findings, which were laid out in a paper published in January.

“The Director stands by, and has always stood by, the January 2017 Intelligence Community Assessment,” Boyd, the CIA spokesperson, said.

Notably, the revelation that former DNC Chairwoman Donna Brazile said she feared for her life after DNC staffer Seth Rich was murdered certainly help cast Binney’s views in a new light. Some suspect that Rich wasn’t murdered in a robbery gone awry, like police said, but in a deliberate hit job organized by shadowy elements associated with the DNC and Clinton campaign. Binney said he mentioned the case of Seth Rich to Pompeo during their meeting.

And as the Intercept readily admits, Pompeo’s decision to meet with Binney breathes new life into narratives that were originally dismissed by the mainstream media as “right wing conspiracy theories." 

Pompeo’s decision to meet with Binney raises the possibility that right-wing theories aired on Fox News and in other conservative media can now move not just from conservative pundits to Trump, but also from Trump to Pompeo and into the bloodstream of the intelligence community.


Some senior CIA officials have grown upset that Pompeo, a former Republican representative from Kansas, has become so close to Trump that the CIA director regularly expresses skepticism about intelligence that doesn’t line up with the president’s views. Pompeo has also alienated some CIA managers by growing belligerent toward them in meetings, according to an intelligence official familiar with the matter.


The Director has been adamant that CIA officers have the time, space and resources to make sound and unbiased assessments that are delivered to policy makers without fear or favor,” Boyd said in an email to The Intercept. “As he has stated repeatedly, when we deliver our assessments to policy makers, we must do so with complete candor. He has also pushed decision making down in the organization, giving officers greater ownership of their work and making them more accountable for the outcomes. These changes are designed to make CIA more agile, aggressive and responsive." 

This past summer, as the Mueller investigation was heating up, Binney co-authored a memo, published by members of a group of former intelligence officials called Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity, making the case that the DNC emails were not hacked by Russia, but stolen by an insider. The memo argued that the emails were likely downloaded directly from a DNC computer onto a thumb drive or some other external device.

“Forensic studies of ‘Russian hacking’ into Democratic National Committee computers last year reveal that on July 5, 2016, data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computer,” the memo states. The memo’s conclusions were based on analyses of metadata provided by the online persona Guccifer 2.0, who took credit for the alleged hack. “Key among the findings of the independent forensic investigations is the conclusion that the DNC data was copied onto a storage device at a speed that far exceeds an Internet capability for a remote hack."


The memo garnered attention on the right, but its claims have been disputed. It cited timestamps embedded in the Guccifer files showing when they’d been copied, and used this data to extrapolate how quickly they’d been copied from one computer to another. The analysis on which the VIPS memo was based, conducted by a blogger called “The Forensicator,” showed that the files were transferred at a speed roughly equivalent to the rate at which data can be downloaded to a USB thumb drive. VIPS claimed that speed was “much faster than what is physically possible with a hack,” and so the files had to have been stolen by an insider with direct access to the computer system.

Binney, who has serious health problems and is confined to a wheelchair, said he traveled to the CIA headquarters in Langley Virginia to meet with Pompeo, who was accompanied by two CIA analysts who didn’t reveal their names.

While the intelligence community has categorically disputed Binney’s theory, it has never provided a compelling explanation as to why.

However, we imagine now that the death of Rich is back in the news cycle and both the Mueller indictments plus the revelation that the ‘Trump dossier’ was financed by Democrats, the intelligence community is rapidly hurtling toward a Sophie’s choice of sorts: Admit they lied and acknowledged that Binney’s theory is at least plausible, or produce the evidence that will definitively prove that Russia-linked hackers were responsible for the DNC leaks - something we imagine might be difficult in the absence of any real conclusive evidence.

Like they say, being “mostly certain” is just an upside-down way of saying that doubts remain.  

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Late onset ADHD's picture

"CIA Director Mike Pompeo met with Binney late last month under the advisement of President Donald Trump"....


excellent... Binney knows what time it is... 'bout time, 'bout time...

takeaction's picture


“Forensic studies of ‘Russian hacking’ into Democratic National Committee computers last year reveal that on July 5, 2016, data was leaked (not hacked) by a person with physical access to DNC computer,” 

Late onset ADHD's picture

wtf you mean 'hello"?... go buy a vowel...

re-read and pay attention... good lord...

BennyBoy's picture


NSA has every email ever sent any where.

They also track who makes what comments on ZH.

I love the NSA!

Late onset ADHD's picture

like I give a shit... but you seem to care, so go cower in a corner someplace...

Bastiat's picture

"go buy a vowel"

go fuck yourself, clown.

Late onset ADHD's picture

beat yourself to death with a hammer, indolent dickhead...

Billy the Poet's picture

wtf you mean 'hello"?... go buy a vowel... re-read and pay attention... good lord...


takeaction was likely replying to the article itself and not your comment. The cascade of comments flowing from the initial comment are usually a place to drop one's observation on the article and not the preceding comment.

But I could be wrong and now I'm runn ng o t of v w ls.

Late onset ADHD's picture

hierarchical comment systems aren't difficult to use... for most...

overbet's picture

We cant have the inmates running the prison. -Bob McNair

valjoux7750's picture

Gotta love it, the wheels are coming off. The entire Russian colution story is fabricated and  promoted as truth, but we have known that from day one.  Can we count on the MSM to report on this please?

 Look a squirl.

I hope the whole lot burns in hell. 

Late onset ADHD's picture

deep state doesn't burn... it burns other things.... that's the problem...

Oldwood's picture

Trying to make a car in the ditch look like a deliberate off-roading attempt.

JoseyWalesTheOutlaw's picture

Who would belive anybody from the CIA....really they followed Brennan off the cliff without any questions.

serotonindumptruck's picture

Why is Binney still alive?

With these revelations, one might expect that a see-eye-ay wet-work operation would be carried out against such whistleblowers.

Perhaps Binney is kinda like Edward Snowden?

A limited hangout.

decon's picture

Both Binney and Snowden deserve the medal of freedom rather than the entertainers that've been getting it lately.

The Wizard's picture

Binney should be in charge of the NSA (period).......

God bless Snowden and Assange. Two people who should be involved in government "intelligence".

xrxs's picture

Binney understands that security vs. privacy is a false dichotomy.  We would have been safer, more free, and have a few billion more in the bank if Binney and his ilk had been in charge.

Ms No's picture

Binney came out when there were still whistleblower protections and whistleblowers were actually protected and rewarded because this nation once understood that there was value in people coming forward to warn the citizenry that their government was committing crimes.  Now people are so damn stupid that they want them dead. 


serotonindumptruck's picture

I certainly don't want Binney or Snowden to be assassinated.

I'm simply wondering why neither one of them is willing to assign names to the alleged perpetrators.

They both speak in generalities, offering just enough information to whet our appetite, but not enough to bring indictments for treason.

Just color me sceptical until more heads begin to roll.

Ms No's picture

I know you don't.  It was a good question.  Something very big changed somewhere.

Billy the Poet's picture

Something very big changed somewhere.


Somewhere very deep.  The effects can be seen all over the world.

Conscious Reviver's picture

serotonin, Re. Binney or Snowden, not enough info.

You never had an IT job. No one knows everything. No one has access to everything. They saw what they saw and decided to do what they did. Binney did not collect any classified docs to take with him. That's one reason he's still walking around. Snowden took the more dangerous step of collecting data to prove his points. But even Snowden can only collect what he can see. People here were saying things like Snowden is not real because he won't say who did 9/11. Snowden won't say who is buried in Grant's Tomb. That's just crazy talk. They both released important, timely data to us and especially in the case of Snowden took great risks to try to inform us. We should appreciate what they did.

The event that caused Binney to break with zombie mainstream occurred when installing monitoring equipment on traffic in and out of America as authorized in some bill, probably the unPatriotic act. Binney pointed out that the act did not permit monitoring the domestic trunks, but was overridden.

Promethus's picture

What's? It has been open season on whistle blowers  for the last 30 years. The IG is just a tool to support management. If you want justice you need to see Don Corleone.

George Washington's picture

HELL NO ... Binney is the MAN, in the best sense of the word.

Conscious Reviver's picture

I agree George, but so is Snowden.

Winston Churchill's picture

Just imagine how bad the real situation is, kept behind Binneys dead mans switch.

He literally wrote the book for the NSA.

All the real backdoors written into machine code,bios and firmware, the designated decoys in

the operating systems are barely the tip of the iceberg.

Tens of trillions of USD at stake for TPTB.

They would do anything to keep him alive as long as possible,and will.

fallst's picture

The only limited hangout is when your fly is again unzipped, Einstein 

jamesmmu's picture

TOM FITTON: New FBI scandal further reason to REOPEN Clinton Investigaton

grunk's picture

You can't drop enough nukes on Langley, VA.

RagaMuffin's picture

Nah, just turn it into a refugee camp    ;-)

DeadFred's picture

Fire and brimstone would work if it were concentrated enough.

spanish inquisition's picture

The intelligence communities job is not to be honest, its to drive the sheep in the direction directed by the overlords.

serotonindumptruck's picture

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.

He's only there to make you believe.

Ms No's picture

Having Weinstein now exposed for using Mossad to intimidate crime victims in the US should be enough to have the NSA, CIA and FBI disbanded.  They have to know because it's their job to know and now we know, and if it can be proven that they know that foreign agents are operating in the US against US citizens and to protect their co-opted media system then it is a clear case of treason.  I'd like to hear their explanation.  I'd like to hear about how it became more important to cover for foreign infiltration than it was to protect US sovereignty, the Constitution and American citizens.  Foreign agents infiltrated Hollywood, then they rape people and have Mossad terrorize them into silence.  Just how was Hollywood infiltrated and strong-armed under the supposed patriotic watch of American intelligence agencies?  This wasn't complicity, it was collusion.  Now people should understand why the intelligence agencies are false flagging us left and right.

44magnum's picture

Its alright, you know they suffered in the holocaust don't you.


messystateofaffairs's picture

That Mossad foreign agent doesn't operate in the US, they run the US "security" complex as its boss. Israel knows more about the US than the President and Congress does. US is a vassal state of Israel.

just the tip's picture

i get really confused about this detail at ZH.

you say the US is a vassal of israel.

next, someone says israel is a vassal of the US.

is it the same thing or different?

Ms No's picture

We are essentially all vassals of Banking Oligarchs, except a few nations.  If there is anything above that nobody seems to know about it.  Stalin, Hitler and FDR had the same funding sources.  Around that time those same interests created the CIA.  It was created by them and for them.  It's doing exactly what it was intended to do.  Many believe, and for good reason, that a Rothschild banking oligarch (one of the federal reserve families, most likely the primary family) had Israel created as his own fiefdom and with future delusions of grandeur.  They were here from the beginning trying to gain control because the creation of a free US would destroy their hegemony.  The finally pretty much have complete control but the hosts heart is still beating.  It's really weird situation.  I would hate to see what the would do to this country if they could do whatever they wanted because they seem to take this shit personally.  There has been a 200 year battle going on here.

So the people who created the disaster of the WWI and WWII, created Israel, created the world reserve currency and the CIA.  It doesn't really have a home because it's nearly everywhere.   

DjangoCat's picture

Follow the money, then stab it in the heart. 

Use Bitcoin.

JohninMK's picture

Bang on the money there. Very perceptive and compact analysis.

Nice one.

messystateofaffairs's picture

No confusion, Israel pays the bills with money printed in the US by its agents and Israel clearly is the boss.

topspinslicer's picture

The so-called intelligence community will always find weapons of mass distraction if you want them to

DjangoCat's picture

Question is, will they use them?

Dickweed Wang's picture

Break the See Aye Eh up into a thousand pieces and scatter them into the wind . . .

just the tip's picture

well.  not his last.  but we know what you mean.

trailer park boys's picture

Binney chalenging the CIA and the Deep State?  I'm afraid his 'serious health problems' are about to get a lot more serious.