Bitcoin Soars, Erases Weekend Losses As 'Cash' Gets Cut In Half

Tyler Durden's picture

Well, that de-escalated quickly...

All the hopes and dreams of Bitcoin Cash officianados have been dashed in the last 24 hours. After its mega spike from $600 to over $2400, the forked cryptocurrency has crashed back to around $1000 overnight as traders switch back to the mainstream Bitcoin branch, sending it surging back above $6600 - erasing all the weekend's "the end is nigh" losses...

As CoinTelegraph reports, cross-exchange data for Bitcoin Cash, which describes itself as “the best money in the world,” shows a swift turnaround in the altcoin’s fortunes through the weekend.

The result of a giant publicity effort from its proponents, BCH saw mass investment as it heads towards a potentially contentious hard fork set for just after 7 p.m. GMT today.

The failure of SegWit2x, coupled with endorsement from the soon-to-be-defunct Bitcoin Classic team meant BCH became the major ‘competitor’ to Bitcoin overnight.

Its rapid rise has ignited the community, with widespread condemnation of lead supporters Roger Ver and Jihan Wu coming in tandem with public praise from Ethereum creator Vitalik Buterin.

As BCH approached its highest-ever point Nov. 11, Buterin delivered his “congratulations” to Ver on Twitter, adding it was a “key reason why he is now so confident in crypto.”

Criticism meanwhile has focused on the ‘corporatized’ nature of BCH in contrast to Bitcoin’s decentralization, while figures involved insist the altcoin is an improvement on Bitcoin.

The project even has a CEO in the form of Finnish Pirate Party founder Rick Falkvinge, who released a statement aimed at harmonizing its structure.

“...As Chief Executive Officer of this disorganization with made-up titles, where every document is as official as people pretend it to be, I further emphasize that we cannot resolve social disputes by voting, for two reasons: first, there is no boundary on the electorate that determines who gets to vote, which creates winning by trickery rather than by argument, and second, we don’t want to vote anyway.”

But that is all over for now...

As Bitcoin soars back above $6600...

 

Leaving Bitcoin Cash about half the market cap of Ethereum once again...

So what happens next?

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LawsofPhysics's picture

Churn baby churn!!!  BTFD in everything!!!!

manofthenorth's picture

Round trips over 30% in less than 24 hours,

"store of value"

crazy shit right there.

Sonder's picture

Did you really expect a relatively new "currency" to have a stable valuation within less than a decade?

LawsofPhysics's picture

Indeed, historically speaking, many things have been tried as currencies, money, or stores of value, the vast majority never even lasted a decade...

"Full Faith and Credit"

Same as it ever fucking was was.  Regardless, the central banks of the world have made it clear precisely what they all agree on as their preferred collateral, regardless of the "fiat du jour".

YUNOSELL's picture

Lots of traders liking the Cryptovolatility

dasein211's picture

Yes!!!! They love it. I didn’t buy Bitcoin Cash because it seemed like a front run to the fork. I may buy 1 this afternoon just to get a free coin but then sell it immediately:

tmosley's picture

No mention of the huge backlog of transactions on the BTC chain preventing people from getting their coins to exchanges to trade for something that isn't going to trap them after BCH attracts all the miners back again after the hardfork.

If you don't have special insight into this thing, you had best own an equal amount of both coins, or you are gambling. I think I have such insight, so I am out of BTC and into BCH with the proceeds. Still holding alts in my core wallet.

We'll see.

NugginFuts's picture

Ditto. Roger Ver may be pimping BCH, but not without good reason. 

tmosley's picture

Exactly. Peanutz need to learn that ad hominem is not an argument.

NugginFuts's picture

... just want to remark on the irony of dissing ad hominem while calling them "peanutz"... lol

tmosley's picture

Lesson to be learned, insult is not ad hominem ("you are stupid" is different from "you are stupid therefore your argument is wrong").

Insult is also not an argument, but generally doesn't represent itself as such. I debunk arguments, THEN call people names.

RedDwarf's picture

It's a fine line, but yes the two are not actually the same.  On the other hand if the name calling is not also after or duing the counter-argument within the actual conversation, it can be called an ad-hom since there is no other context.  The 'therefore your argument is wrong' becomes implicit.

BallAndChained's picture

Funny how there are huge swings of panic sells and greed.

BTC BCH BCC BTG CryptoCrap, they are all the same: chains of NOTHINGNESS.

The same NOTHINGNESS Bernie Madoff was selling.

Calling CryptoCrap different names don't make them any different from NOTHINGNESS.

Real Crap has more substance than virtual CryptoCrap. lol

IH8OBAMA's picture

"Peanutz need to learn that ad hominem is not an argument."

So says the King of the personal attack.

Nature_Boy_Wooooo's picture

Roger Ver is a convicted felon who has no education in finance or computer programming. He is literally just the guy who bought the Bitcoin.com domain.

Why in the world anyone would follow his lead is beyond me.

 

Gap Admirer's picture

"Exactly. Peanutz need to learn that ad hominem is not an argument."

I'm with ya, man!  Why just yesterday an anonymous poster said this to someone discussing crypto:

"Plz kill urself my man, thanx."

What a moron!  I wonder how bad this guy's cognitive dissonance is?  I bet he says that people should argue the issue, not attacking, and then goes on to attack. 

BaBaBouy's picture

Hey Look, It's a Nerd Food Fight ...

tmosley's picture

Spamming refferal links to literal malware is not "discussing crypto".

I also NEVER tell anyone not to attack. I tell them to use ARGUMENTS. Which you don't, which is strong evidence for your state of cognitive dissonance.

Gap Admirer's picture

tmosley dude, you're being overly emotional here. Don't take it personally. As I said, it was an anonymous moron, not you. Everyone on ZH knows that you are brilliant, not a latest fad pumper, and never, ever, do ad hominem attacks. Ever.

NugginFuts's picture

If you listen to the arguments he makes based on Mises, there's a lot of good sense there. But there's also the counter argument - that BCH is just a less impressive version of LTC but with better branding. You figure out which one is more important and bet accordingly. 

tmosley's picture

Roger Ver drinks water, therefore don't drink water?

Just because someone with no credibility says something or does something doesn't mean that is wrong. It just means that citing the fact taht that person is saying or doing that thing is not a proper appeal to authority, and therefore not an argument.

Nobody is citing Roger Ver's enthusiasm for BCH as a reason to buy, to my knowledge.

Buckaroo Banzai's picture

That "uneducated felon" is well on his way to becoming a billionaire. "Literally just the guy" who had the foresight to buy the Bitcoin.com domain, you mean?

He's got some definite character flaws but a leader is, by definition, someone who is way, way, way ahead of the crowd. So he qualifies.

shitshitshit's picture

I see nothing but the usual shaking of the weak handed hodlers here.

You seem to be a very insightful investment advisor btw. Never before this dip did you mention what you now say. Did you already sell a few of your precious BTC? -What are you going to do when they come into fashion again (because everybody knows BTC will always be there, and should it have been for the transaction backlog argument, LTC would already have the highest market cap around, if not 100s of other shitcoinz(r)(tm), so there must be some other reason, right?)?

 

tmosley's picture

Your post is a mess.

>because everybody knows BTC will always be there

https://youtu.be/jT6h2CUWLzQ?t=13

dasein211's picture

So when you consider the different cryptos and the traits they have, to me, Bitcoin is the one who acts as a main store of value but not good for tons of transactions. Dash will have better transactability. Ethereum will be more computer program oriented. Zcash and monero better to evade taxes and government bullshit. Look bigger than currency. This whole economic “ecosystem” is about to change. Bitcoin is better suited for HUGE sums of money as is XRP. However, Bitcoin is decentralized. And has first mover advantage. It survives better with options rather than one supreme winner.

shitshitshit's picture

I go back and forth between exchanges and wallets without waiting too much (30-60 minutes in general without too much of an issue). I do not have the same experience as you in terms of "huge backlog". 

If there is a backlog, you can also pin it on some exchanges which make users wait inordinate amounts of time before sending coins out. Then yes, we have an issue, and it's not BTC linked, but this concerns all cryptos.

Moreover this point, if true, would only confirm one thing: it's that the actual price of  BTC is not due to cash infusion, but rather to price manipulation at the exchanges level. Don't forget that wallst is now on the hunt for cheap money... Something you didn't mention too often lately.

 

tmosley's picture

I don't think your "experience" extends to on-chain transactions over the last 72 hours. Even after the BCH difficulty adjustment and the return of the miners to BTC last night, there are still some 100K unconfirmed transactions: https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

>you can also pin it on some exchanges

It has nothing to do with the exchanges. Only to do with the miners.

>Something you didn't mention too often lately.

Nice innuendo. Not an argument.

shitshitshit's picture

BTC wasn't supposed to handle real time transactions, but rather be used as a store of value, right?

So why are you so concerned about the backlog knowing that this coin is meant to be stored and held (especially if its intrinsic value raises exponentially as you mentioned before)? In such cases I could wait for 1 week to get a transaction cleared, it wouldn't matter at all, just like moving gold bars in and out a safe.

To me this is not a case for bitcoin dying. A whole economy is based on it and I've been very happily mining it for years until recently (it has become extremely expensive to mine, even when you own a feww 100s miners and have access to MW of cheap electricity nowadays). 

My banker used to laugh at me when I mentioned I wanted to buy real estate in BTC back in the days. now he's getting bonkers... It's not going anywhere soon, but we'll have to pop this bubble, and whetever lipstick you put on that pig is not going to change anything: we'll be entering bear market soon, and everybody and their mother is going to try to explain it away by arguments like the ones you put in front of us, up until the point bear market will kick in again.

Those who know will know when it's time to buy back, the others will get burnt. Simple as that.

 

tmosley's picture

>BTC wasn't supposed to handle real time transactions, but rather be used as a store of value, right?

Only delusional speculators say that.

>So why are you so concerned about the backlog knowing that this coin is meant to be stored and held

Because it isn't. If you make it so that you can't transact, it is FUCKING WORTHLESS.

> just like moving gold bars in and out a safe

It doesn't take a week to move gold bars in or out of a safe.

>To me this is not a case for bitcoin dying

All in on DeNileCoin, I see.

shitshitshit's picture

I am not hodling only one coin, but I rather strive to diversify, and this also includes keeping some fiat handy, as well as putting some of my profits in PMs because it doesn't hurt. And yes it's not like it takes one week to move goldbars around, but if you do it neatly you have to pay attention to your security, therefore you have to plan in advance, and this takes some time to plan it accordingly. Same thing should apply to your cold wallets as well...

Very funny to see you burning what you loved so much, and come to love what you most likely hated so much.

What's going to be the flavor next week? z-cash, dash, monero, any other stupid coin?

 

 

tmosley's picture

>Very funny to see you burning what you loved so much

I never loved silver, nor bitcoin. I loved what they represented, which was freedom from fiat and a new financial system. When that changes, I move on.

>come to love what you most likely hated so much.

Argument from ignorance. Peanut special.

>What's going to be the flavor next week?

IOTA or something like it will win in the end. You are an idiot who just got here, but think you know something about long time posters, but I will educate you a little bit. I always liked IOTA from the moment I first heard about it and learned about its capabilities.

And calling the anonymity coins "stupid" is more of a reflection of your character than anything else. You are a good goy.

shitshitshit's picture

why do you always feel the need to close an argument with some kind of cheap insults?

Did I call your competences into question or did I say you were stupid? -No I did not.

Now you're a long time poster and you contributed a lot. This is both a good and a bad thing, because posting all your life is something that will keep you from working and realizing other things.

If I'm not here as much as you are, this is not a problem for me; I've got a life to live and work to do. But sometimes I feel like you're doing a bit too much of promotion, and despite the fact that I've been a long time miner and hodler I honestly think that you're a bit too overkill here.

Now if you want to show off your competences, let us know what's going to happen next week and the week after as well as your analysis, because I'm all ears now.

So far we only read your comments after the fact, and nothing before, no rationale, nothing. It would be good to balance this.

Bay of Pigs's picture

He “never loved silver”?

LMAO! As a 7-8 year ZH vet here I can tell you tmosley is a boldfaced liar, pumper and shill. And he’s an asshole to boot. Has the whole package.

BigJim's picture

He certainly  SEEMED pretty keen on silver as I recall (e, was an oldbug peanut)

tmosley's picture

It's called context you stupid fuck.

Silver was the tool. What I loved was what we were doing with that tool. But the tool was broken, so I threw it away. Now I have a better tool.

BigJim's picture

What were we doing with that tool? I mean, apart from losing capital bigly?

Two Theives and a Liar's picture

BTC 200 DMA is about $3500.00 and still rising nicely. Still technically (yeah, I know) in a healthy bull market ATM. 

shitshitshit's picture

everything is in this "technically".

Mind you, the most revered indicators have this tendency to flip after market changes...

blentus's picture

Oh yeah, you are full of insights. Had no idea what miners were doing yesterday and why, but you were proclaming end of BTC already.

Are you still holding the opinion that miners abandoned BTC?

While we are at it - please tell me, how long does it take for transaction on BCH chain to get processed and accepted by anyone?

Thank in advance man.

tmosley's picture

Your word thinking is going to cause you to lose everything.

>Are you still holding the opinion that miners abandoned BTC?

Of course. They did. Just because they came back doesn't negate that fact. The current 100K backlog of transactions is a testament to that. What do you think is going to happen when the BCH hardfork today entices them back to BCH? HINT: It involves 3-digit transaction fees.

>please tell me, how long does it take for transaction on BCH chain to get processed and accepted by anyone?

My shapeshift transactions clear within five minutes. That is a two-way transaction, including both a BCH and an alt send.

Golden Phoenix's picture

The miners purposely sabotaged the existing system, tried to hold it hostage, purposely forked millions of its users, and you think that's a good thing and they should be handed the reins. 

tmosley's picture

When you own a company that employs people, and another company opens up down the street that pays more, is it "sabotage" for those workers to quit and go work at the other company?

Miners aren't your slaves.

In a free market, EVERYONE holds the reigns. Not just the speculators.

Xavier Doe's picture

When your company is named Coca-Cola, the new company that opens up down the street calls itself "Coca-Cola Cash", and the new company plies its trade NOT by open competition with Coca-Cola (like, for instance, Pepsi), but by

(1) ripping off the Coca-Cola recipe;

(2) naming themselves "Coca-Cola Cash" for the EXPLICIT purpose of applying the brand name "Coca-Cola" to themselves;

(3) furthermore claiming they are actually the *real* Coca-Cola, more closely fulfilling I.A. Pemberton's vision for the product yada yada ("...just not enough *co-caine* in the Real Thing...");

(4) aiming to convince Coca-Cola *bottlers* all over the world to stop bottling their bread-and-butter product, break off relations with their business partner, and instead switch over to *their* company/product, thus hijacking Coca-Cola's product delivery network;

(5) dropping hints to Wall Street, investors and the general public that *they* would like to start using the name Cola-Cola for themselves (but only as long as everything can be worked out "amicably", of course); and

(6) issuing statements, actions and commitments consistent NOT with active promotion of their own brand, but with active *demotion* of the original brand, not by speaking as an outside competitior of that brand, but by claiming legitimacy to speak as an *inside* part/quasi-owner of the *original* brand...

 

is that sabotage?

What I know for damn sure is, the situation is *not* the way *you* characterized it.

HRH Feant2's picture

Branding is everything. I told some of my house painting crew about BTC this summer. When it went over $4k. How many people do you think they told? Do you think I got their attention? They may have heard about ICOs and BCH but maybe not. By the way, I don't talk about BTC to anyone that is my age (50+). Most of them are fucking clueless.

Their grandkids? Some of them are paying attention. Not all but some. I have a smart nephew, a gamer. What is he doing? Working at a warehouse in Pennsylvania. No clue about business or trading or anything. Sad because the kid had talent. Wasted talent, but still, talent.

Branding is everything. But beyond a brand is the foundation. BTCs foundation has proven to be solid.

Spaced Out's picture

Shapeshift? And there's everyone thinking you are a big player!

Spaced Out's picture

"not an argument" is not an argument :D

Shapeshift has very low transaction limits.....for noobies and small players :(

 

Edit: It's a "comments" section, not an "argument" section. And please quit quoting Stefan when you've nothing to say.