Mysterious Bitcoin Dip-Buyer Identified

Tyler Durden's picture

Amid the cataclymsic collapse of Bitcoin late on Friday night, the crypto currency suddenly saw a large buyer step in as prices plummeted below $6000. We now have an idea who that buyer of last resort was...

As a result of a giant publicity effort from its proponents, BCH saw mass investment as it heads towards a potentially contentious hard fork set for just after 7 p.m. GMT today. The failure of SegWit2x, coupled with endorsement from the soon-to-be-defunct Bitcoin Classic team meant BCH became the major ‘competitor’ to Bitcoin over the weekend.

But, as Reuters reports, former Fortress macro hedge fund manager Mike Novogratz - who we most recently profiled here - told Reuters Global 2018 Investment Outlook Summit in New York that he bought $15 to $20 million worth of Bitcoin over the weekend in that recent pullback.

The billionaire says his crypto fund 'Galaxy Investment Partners' owns Bitcoin, Ethereum, and many other companies, and coins.

“The institutionalization of this space is coming. It’s coming pretty quick,” he said.

Novogratz said he expects major financial firms will soon start to offer bitcoin or similar products as an investment option, one that could be easily purchased over the phone.

“When it’s that easy, the price of bitcoin or ethereum is going to go much higher. And that is a lot closer than people think,”

His biggest regret this year has been not buying more cryptocurrencies when prices fell, because he knew that they would keep going up. He sees bitcoin, for instance, hitting $10,000 by March.

Novogratz previously said that, while bitcoin is a bubble, the mania is justified, because it is a technological advancement that promises to fundamentally alter our lives.

"I can hear the herd coming" Novogratz said.

And bubble or not, Novogratz concluded eloquently on the extreme nature of cryptocurrencies' potential...

“Remember, bubbles happen around things that fundamentally change the way we live,” he said.

 

“The railroad bubble. Railroads really fundamentally changed the way we lived. The internet bubble changed the way we live. When I look forward five, 10 years, the possibilities really get your animal spirits going.”

Bitcoin is set to become "the biggest bubble of our time," he added, and could reach $10,000 very soon due to fast-building interest.

But, we also note that Bank of Japan Governor Kuroda made some fascinating comments earlier that appeared to suggest selling yen and buying bitcoin:

Haruhiko Kuroda says he doesn’t “see any serious problem arriving from cryptocurrencies at the moment.”

 

“We are carefully watching the development,” he says at an event of the Schweizerisches Institut für Auslandforschung on Monday in Zurich.

 

Additionally, Bloomberg reported that Kurodas warned "Japan's high debt-to-GDP ratio is not sustainable."

And as the chart below shows, the buying binge overnight really struck as Japan opened...

This move comes on the heels of American venture capital investor Tim Draper's comments (founder of the Silicon Valley VC firm Draper Fisher Jurvetson) that fiat currencies will no longer be in use in five year's time as they are to be replaced by cryptocurrencies.

At the WebSummit conference in Lisbon, Portugal, he told Forbes the fiat system will eventually disappear as people look toward coins like bitcoin or ethereum. He says its because fiat currencies are bound by country borders.

 

“In five years, if you try to use fiat currency they will laugh at you. Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies will be so relevant … there will be no reason to have the fiat currencies,” he said.

 

An unabashed promoter of cryptocurrencies, Draper said he fell in love with bitcoin not long after it was introduced in 2009. He bought 30,000 coins in 2014 (at about $600 each); they are now valued at over $214 million.

 

“This is the greatest technology since the internet,’’ said the investor. “This is a sociological transformation, it’s a movement.’’

 

He also said that bitcoin will divide the financial services industry, at least initially.

 

“There will be a few who embrace it and jump out front and say, ‘This is important’ and then there are going to be those who jump back and say, ‘I’m going to cling to the past, and I’m going to hold onto everything I’ve got.’ And you know who wins then,” Draper said. “It’s always progress, it’s always technology.’’

 

Talking at the conference, he said investors should thoroughly study who’s running the ICOs and whether their business plans seem legitimate.

 

Draper has rejected the possibility of the cryptocurrency market imploding like the dotcom boom in the late ‘90s, saying “people are always going to say there’s a problem, and that usually means there’s a lot more upside.”

Finally we leave you with Dennis Gartman's comments tonight on bitcoin:

"this is a market for criminals and millennials."

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tmosley's picture

If I am completely right, the most profitable move is to go all in on BCH. If I am partially right, the best move is to move to a good altcoin. If I am completely wrong, the best move is to go all in on BTC.

The move that should work under all scenarios is to buy a unit of BCH for every BTC that you hold.

lickspitler's picture

Yer yer Mosley

Coinbase will release BCH to account holders jan 1   and BCH will get murdered.

 

Thats why he pump and dump now.

 

Sucker

lickspitler's picture

The backlog arguement is rubbish.

Bitcoin is being used as a store of value not a transaction currency.

Bitcoin cash being touted as commercial because of a bigger blocksize is rubbish Use Lite coin if you want speed.

This is a cash-in pump.  You gotta love Bitcoin Jesus what a rock star..  respect.

tmosley's picture

You are claiming that Bitcoin was designed to be a speculative instrument.

That was NOT the intention.

If the coin is going to cede the largest part of the market to another coin, then it simply can not maintain its top spot. When other, more usable coins increase in value over bitcoin, then the "store of value" argument ceases to hold water, and the coin dies entirely.

I am reminded of the interrogation scene from the Matrix. "What use is a store of value if you are unable to spend?"

lickspitler's picture

It's a store of value now Mosley.  It's the gateway to the cryptoverse now.

This is an evolving experience, when it stablizes (who knows when) then

changes such as lightening will allow it to evolve into what it was designed for.

Right now, and for the coming months it will be used as a store of value.

 

Just like your  other forays Gold Silver and Bitcoin your too impatient Mosley you old fuck.

tmosley's picture

BTC is an evolutionary dead end, I'm afraid.

A currency without users is not worth anything.

Feant's picture

Thus speaketh the retard that went full retard on BCH.

You are not doing yourself any favors. None. With each post you look like dumb and dumber. In blackface. I find that amusing. Nigger in blackface, posing. Kinda cute.

tmosley's picture

The only thing you said in the post was that I bought BCH.

Do you understand that? CAN you understand that?

BeanusCountus's picture

Thanks. I have equal units. Question I wonder about: if futures allowed, what stops .gov that worries about loss of currency control from just jumping in and selling a few $B notional to bring down price like someone seems to do with gold/silver on occasion?

tmosley's picture

Lack of coins to borrow. Any exchange that allows naked shorting will have their price data excluded from pricing mechanisms.

BeanusCountus's picture

Hoping that the mechanism exists to force "delivery" on futures settlement for BTC and the other cryptos. They sure blew it on PM's. Personally not sure on 'em yet as a "store of value" due to volatility. What goes up that fast can come down fast as well. But the one thing that interests me is the future trade value of these things at points in time as the world goes through the inevitable de-vals of currency after currency due to years and years of excess debt accumulation. The citizens of one country after another are likely to seek alternative short term stores of value when the shit hits the fan. Brexits, Greek defaults, Venezuela hyper inflation, Middle East messes (insert country name here), Japan debt bomb, Chinese moving money out of country, etc. All can have a dramatic impact on short term values of something with a 21M finite supply (assuming they can stick to it). You probably have it right to be a trader taking advantage of the moment. Sure hope though that you have converted a significant portion of your early profits to alternative stores of val.

Feant's picture

You are not right. You are a schill.

Fuck off and die.

tmosley's picture

What's a schill?

Also, not an argument.

lickspitler's picture

All this not an arguement shit.

You keep missing the point.

You overlay your old PM cliches onto bitcoin and believe you are a guru.

Stick with BCH now that you exchanged all your BTC. It will haunt you and many here will be there to remind you. 

tmosley's picture

>You keep missing the point

>Provides an empty insult instead of a point

WEW.

Feant's picture

No, you keep missing the point.

You suck as a salesperson. Rule one of sales: never insult your target audience. EVER.

I said in another aricle. The NFL players failed to understand this basic premise of capitalism. The customer owns you. Period.

Obviously you don't understand that basic tenet of capitalism. It's okay.

And never think you are smarter than your audience. You are not. 99% of the US population has no idea that BTC exists. When you start talking about BCH and ICOs you may as well be speaking a foreign language.

It is all about the numbers. And BCH has no numbers. Unless you are sitting and minding a server farm in China.

If you dumped your money into that operation, not my fucking problem. Go get some Cheerios and cry into your cereal bowl.

tmosley's picture

>You suck as a salesperson

I also suck as an anteater. That doesn't get me down either.

>never insult your target audience.

Who do you think is my target audience? HINT: It isn't people in cognitive dissonance, who are immune to persuasion because their brains have shut down.

>And never think you are smarter than your audience. You are not

Factually inaccurate AND irrelevent.

>99% of the US population has no idea that BTC exists

What percentage of those people do you think are reading the comment section of a bitcoin article on a financial website?

>And BCH has no numbers.

Factually inaccurate.

> Go get some Cheerios and cry into your cereal bowl

Why would I do that? I'm up quite a bit, and it looks like victory is just a matter of time. If BTC manages to get those fees down, then I will change my mind about it. But I don't think it can in time to save itself. It would be really good for crypto if it did, though.

overbet's picture

fading this. not releasing any btc

lickspitler's picture

Mosley you are a fraud.

" Bitcoin is bullshit, you can only rely on PM's"

TMosley TF Metals Forum August 2013

 

First you spruke Gold at the Top then Silver then Bitcoin  Now Bitcoin Cash.

Mosley the bell ringer.

 

tmosley's picture

Post a link to the comment. Always interesting to see how my thinking has grown over time.

Pretty fucking sure I never said that though, as I seem to recall being interested in it almost as soon as I heard about it, and I did buy some back then.

Also, changing your mind makes you a fraud? No, I would say that never changing your mind makes you a fool at best. Dead at worst.

I seem to recall you levelling this accusation at me before, but being unable to produce. Why would you be so stupid as to try again if that was the case? Einsteinian insanity.

maxblockm's picture

Is there some meaning to "spruke" that googling does not reveal?

 

"Spruke is Buffalo-based producer and DJ Bill Boulden. He's got a unique and geeky sound that he brings to his main projects. Bump In The Night with DJ Spruke! Genre: Electropop Albums: Music to Die Alone in Space, To Cepheus"

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/spruik
Says spruik [sprook]  Australian Slang. 1. to make or give a speech, especially extensively or elaborately; spiel; orate.

could kindof make sense I guess?

Volkodav's picture

      too late to stop beatings

 

 

Insatiant's picture

I'm holding onto both my BTC and BCH from the original split.  I believe sentiment will remain with BTC long-term and that the harder that BCH leaders try to force things, the stronger that sentiment will grow.  You never know, though.  In the end, no block size increase is going to scale crypto up to "holiday" credit card processing rates, without the introduction of side channel processers like Lightning Network, which are already being worked and part of the reason for the introduction of segregated witness.

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Am I right in assuming that the very last Bitcoin will take an infinitely long time to mine? (When would that happen?)
Would that not kill the market?
I agree that blockchain is the way of the future, but I don't think BTC will be the coin of the future. I also don't think gold will ever go away.

tmosley's picture

No, the last bitcoin that is mined would come on a specific block in 2140, IIRC. By then the vast majority of the block reward will be transaction fees, and after the last coin is mined, all of the proceeds from mining will be from transaction fees.

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Hmmm...
But then that block (or last series of blocks) would take infinitely long to mine. If the splits keep happening, the hashes get harder, the splits will be quicker (as mining tech improves,) and the value keeps going up... all of it is exponential. Isn't that the model? Double on one side, halve on the other? It's the original 'man who broke the bank' bet at the casino in Monte Carlo.

tmosley's picture

>But then that block (or last series of blocks) would take infinitely long to mine

No, the block difficulty is set by the algorithm. Blocks will keep coming so long as there are miners mining them. The only variable is the ratio of transaction fees and newly created bitcoins in the reward.

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

"No, the block difficulty is set by the algorithm. Blocks will keep coming so long as there are miners mining them. The only variable is the ratio of transaction fees and newly created bitcoins in the reward."

That's what I meant. There is a doubling period. Twice as hard, double the reward... and so on, and so on, until the last block is infinitely hard and takes an infinite amount of time. Otherwise, how would the algo know how long unknown tech would take to mine the last? It might not double, it might be some other fraction, but there has to be a balance. If there wasn't and someone invented a particularly efficient hardware architecture, the remaining BTC could be mined in less time. Since the date is locked-in, there must be a mathematical way to ensure that it is reached on time.
Can you confirm or deny, with a source? I have found little info on this (which irks me.)

This makes it a pyramid scheme by definition, but that does not lessen its usefulness or desirability. It just means that there will be others after it.

It's the math.

tmosley's picture

>There is a doubling period.

There is, but that isn't hard coded in. It is instead a result of Moore's Law. If the hashing ability slows in its rate of growth, or even shrinks, the mining will stop getting harder and even get easier in the latter event. The algo senses the hash power and adjusts the difficulty every so many blocks.

>If there wasn't and someone invented a particularly efficient hardware architecture, the remaining BTC could be mined in less time

If they invented such a thing, there would be bigger problems than bitcoin mining. That would mean that SHA-256 had been rendered vulnerable, which means the banking system is completely open, the nuclear arsenal is completely open, and everything else using SHA-256 is completely open. Any fix that protects those will also protect bitcoin.

>Since the date is locked-in

The date is only an estimate. It is actually a set block that contains the last bit of mined crypto. Radical advances could make it come sooner, while a miner flight could put it off indefinitely.

Don't have a source at hand. Knowledge just kinda seeped in over time. Youtube has some excellent explinations of how the tech works though. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Thanks for your answer and for the clarifications.

Feant's picture

Yes. That is what I have heard posited. You can google when will the last BTC be mined. I don't keep up on that. I am not a miner.

But I am guessing TMosley has a huge stake in a mining company in China. One that thinks they can take over BTC with BCH.

Hahahahahahahahaha. Epic fail.

tmosley's picture

Hahaha, TMOSLEY THE GREAT AND POWERFUL, controls all mining, all around the world!

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

I think the underlying, when it comes to cryptos, is math.
It may well have been a scam (pipe dream) to begin with, but I think that its utility over-rides its lack of intrinsic value; that may well be its intrinsic value, especially when you consider the 'lazy snowflakes' who will all be using it one day. If it's easier, it's better, no matter what its true intrinsic value is. If enough people demand it, it will be used, until the math says otherwise.
People used to trade seashells. Nobody ground them up to make chalk when the currency was replaced by coins.
Value is ambiguous and arbitrary. Just ask Ag when digital photos broke Kodak. Besides, just look at the value of certain Morgan dollars. They all have the same actual silver weight, but some are worth more than others due to the arbitrary whims of collectors.

Also, and as an aside, I think it is bad form to wish ill upon someone's good fortune. I don't care what anybody here has in their portfolios. I hope they have made good decisions and that they benefit from their moxie. My positions won't grow just because someone else's fail. I don't see why the price of both Au and BTC wouldn't go up if the dollar crashes. Both are good in my books, and the dollar, imo, is already dying.

When the dollar dies, what will your investments pay out in? BTC and gold are both better than... GE, for example. But even if GE reverses and goes through the roof, when the crash comes, they won't pay you in Yuan.

Feant's picture

Maybe you should start with a new avatar that doesn't feature a man wearing makeup and with a sucker in his mouth. Is that you? Pervy as fucking hell. Creepy, too.

As for when the dollar dies? It can't happen soon enough. I have of PMs.

BTC was nothing but entertainment for me.

At this point I am trading pure profit. I cashed out two weeks ago. If everything I left in BTC goes to zero? Guess what? Not a big deal. And I am no longer advising anyone to invest in this crap.

I am going to buy more silver and gold. 6000 years as money.

As for the stock market, specifially the US stock market? Yikes. I would consider buying in after it bottoms at 7000. That is when I would step in to buy the fucking dip.

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

What's so pervy about a hot chick smoking a cigarette while blinking SOS? Do you need glasses?

If that creeps you out, maybe you should try a less triggering environment than ZH... perhaps with some milk and cookies, or a blanket for nap time, or maybe an adult colouring book.
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/self-care-movement-turni...

tion's picture

It sounds like you were never really invested in the first place, just gambling for some entertainment.  No better than the greedy speculators that keep pushing into volatility to keep lining their pockets, though many of them are also invested in seeing bitcoin succeed.

BTC is going to be just fine, JMO.  Fortunately adoption on a value for value basis is continuing to increase despite volatility.  Because at the end of the day, it's the utility for exchanging actual value that matters, right?  These people that keep talking about the cup of coffee line are thinking on a too myopic and localized level.  Entities that are at a smaller level than sovereign nations will want a means to transact digitally, internationally, that is not denominated in fiat terms.  The global fiat shitshow is just barely getting started.  The killer is still in play, but these entities are not going to be shipping phyz to eachother to pay for things.  Even if a different CC is more technically suitable to fill that role at any given time, psychology, early dominance, and crypto-info-overload-fatigue shouldn't be too readily dismissed.

Take a chill pill lady, and maybe bake some maca root gingerbread cookies to help with those changes you are going through. Adaptogens FTW.

Also, for what it's worth, there's a difference between being a non-isolationist nationalist and being a downright progressivist globalist, and Draper DGAF about MAGA.

Feant's picture

I never said I was a long-time holder. I always admitted to being a speculator and trader.

That I was able to at least recoup my initial stake? So what. I tried it. That was my initial goal to simply understand how it worked in the real world.

As for your final sentence? I am conservative. I have been conservative for many years. I don't care what you do behind closed doors with consenting adults. But when your perversion involves children, fuck oof.

As for MAGA? Thank god for Trump. Imagine the US stock market under Hillairy. It would have been a disaster. But your 401K is paid up. No worries for you, right?

tion's picture

Regarding my last sentence, that was a generally directed comment about Tim Draper that I threw in, sorry for the lack of clarity.  The Draper types annoy me.  I am MAGA all the way, and I deeply hope we will strive to benefit ourselves as a nation on a value creation basis rather than bullying or deceit.  I don't see how international trade can truly be transacted in an honorable way when global fiats are so fucked up, the FRN most of all.  Only a small portion can benefit themselves playing the geo-arbitrage game, benefitting themselves at the cost of others.  It rubs me the wrong way and so I choose not to play.  People try to deceive themselves that since the cost is not so obvious, that it doesn't exist.  Baloney.

Regarding 401k's, I am unlikely to ever have one.  I am well aware that I will need to be fully responsible for my own retirement, am broadly diversified, and do still hold some equities for cashflow and as a hedge against this slow-mo melt up.  When I see all the speculative gambling going on, it just makes me think, This is why we can't have nice things.  Because humans (not just the elite) are just too damn greedy.  And the funny thing about the speculative traders, is that the ones that make a lot of money think they are hot shit, but they are not much better than the typical dindu, just higher IQ perhaps (an even greater waste of potential?), because when it comes down to it, they want something for nothing.  And as for you, you can yell 'nigger' at some stranger on the internet all you want, but it's laughable to think you are any better than him or the next guy/gal, and the stress is probably not good for your health either.  Your tirade comes across as some sort of menopausal freakshow.  I hear menopause is a real bitch.. but it doesn't have to turn a lady into one..

 

Two Theives and a Liar's picture

October 2140 the last BTC "will be mined".

I'm not sure why the f*** I know that...but I do. 

kochevnik's picture

Non sequitur.  Miners seek most profitable hashes,  BCH has least resistance as it is new mine and price supports quick profits.  When BCH collapses miners will return to most profitable crypto.  In any case much of BTC is mined so impact is minimal

tmosley's picture

>BCH has least resistance as it is new mine

What do you mean by this?

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

BTC mines using graphics cards and is not dependant on RAM. BCH mines using RAM so unused computing power can be used to mine by even common folk without specialized gear, like BTC used to.

BCH is to the people what BTC is to the corporations.

tmosley's picture

BTC and BCH are both ASIC mined. Bitcoin Gold was/is meant to be minable with GPUs. RAM is not used for mining.

. . . _ _ _ . . .'s picture

Bitcoin Gold, yes, not Cash. That's what I meant. I was confused, and OT. Ugh, bedtime approaches.
Thanks for the correction.

DownWithYogaPants's picture

That has already appeared to fail.

tmosley's picture

It's WAAAAYYYYYY too early to be making that call.

Still just under 100K stuck transactions in BTC, and fees remain very high. Time will tell.

lickspitler's picture

BCH down to 18%.  The pumps are getting smaller.   You're gunna burn Mosley u arseclown

blentus's picture

You have claimed that miners have already abandoned BTC, days ago. Did they not?

After hard fork  lat night they maxed at 20%, now it's down to 10% and BTC has still been more profitable to mine.

I know, I know. Maybe BCH could do another hard fork and change algo again? They could just do a fork a day until they ruin both coins.

Because that is Satoshi vision, right? Just ask Craig, he will tell you.

 

blentus's picture

It's at 95% / 5% again, and we have BCH blocks at 60+ minutes again.

Great design and algorithm :(

According to DAA specs, it should have already recovered, it went from 10% to 5% of hashpower, it lost 50%, but it should not increase block time to an hour. Fuck knows what they've done or what happened.

While I genuinely wish BCH to survive and be used, I don't fucking wish to use a product which has developers (or a developer, rather) that might not know what they are doing. 3 implementations from 3 devs were submitted, but of course - one created by deadalnix was chosen anyway,  So no matter how many developers someone tells you BCH has, in reality they have fuckall. That is their weakness. I have absolutely nothing against deadalnix, at all - on the contrary. But he can't carry this alone.

And then we get experts like tmosley telling us how sidechain is easy to develop. Sigh.

Cryptography is incredibly hard, scalability is incredibly hard, concurrency is incredibly hard.