43 Senate Republicans Oppose Reid Plan; Lacks Votes To Clear Cloture
After the Senate promptly voted down Boehner's congressional plan, now it is the GOP's turn to return the favor after a House vote on Reid's bill is imminent at around 2:30 pm EDT, and will result in a vote down in kind. Furthermore, as The Hill reports, virtually the entire Republican block in the Senate has sent a letter to Reid expressing their opposition to his proposed legislation. "Their unified opposition to the bill leaves Democrats at least three votes short of the 60 needed to a clear cloture and virtually assures its defeat when it comes up for a vote tonight or tomorrow morning. Only moderate Republican Sens. Susan Collins (Maine.), Olympia Snowe (Maine), Scott Brown (Mass.) and Lisa Murkowski (Alaska.) did not sign on the letter." This is not surprising and it means that the only potential plan is one based on compromise, most likely using the uber-toothless McConnell plan which essentially just raises the ceiling by $2.5 trillion or so and envisions nothing else, as a framework. That said, we doubt a compromise plan is feasible especially since Wall Street refused to take the bait and umble at least 10% in the past week. In other words, we may well enter the Asian open again, not to mention FX in 26 hours, with absolutely nothing firm on the table. Only this time, there will be 24 hours until the Treasury runs out of cash, sales of Fed tungsten notwithstanding.
From The Hill:
"We are writing to let you know that we will not vote for your $2.4 trillion debt limit amendment which, if enacted, would result in the single largest debt ceiling increase in the history of the United States," reads the letter.
Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) took to the floor moments after the letter was delivered to assure Reid, who was also on the floor, that the proposal had no chance of clearing the chamber.
"It’s not going anywhere," said McConnell. "It will not pass the Senate. It will not pass House."
McConnell also accused Reid of "delaying the inevitable" defeat of the bill and called for an immediate vote. The first procedural vote is currently expected at around 1 a.m. Sunday morning.
Reid responded to the news of the letter, which he apparently received while he was on the floor, by asking McConnell what Republicans would agree to since they oppose his plan.
"What will they vote for?" asked Reid. "Do they have any ideas? Let me know.”
The Reid plan, as it currently stands would have President Obama request a $2.4 trillion debt-limit increase in two installments of $1.2 trillion each. The requests would be subject to congressional resolutions of disapproval."
This ongoing childish stalemate will most likely force Obama to indeed pursue the 14th amendment, which could shortly thereafter escalate into a constitutional crisis, which will have a far worse outcome than the simple downgrade of America to AA.
(5 votes)
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UN blue helmets are already being mobilized to seize assets in the US.
Is this democracy at its best? Or at its worst?
@planbeconomics
It is politicians at their worst.
Q: What did the hand say to the face?
A: Slap! (slapping face)
What exactly is the purpose of having a limit on the US's debt? I know, I know, so things don't get out of hand. Looks like the US is in a helleva mess already. It is time to clean house.
If there were a secret plot to utterly discredit the whole notion of democracy, you couldn't do better than the current farce going on in Washington.
The parallels with the chaos in Rome before the emergence of Sulla as dictator are astonishing... I keep asking myself, will there be a new Sulla emerging out of this chaos.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla
Whatever. At least we've been able to stop them for a few weeks.
Let the new Mao figure out how to live on $200 Billion a month. Because even then, the answer will still be NO MORE.
It's not my debt.
I'm not paying it.
we need some catos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cato_the_Younger
Cato contra mundum
The only thing they will seize in Dixie are the pointed ends of fired bullets.
+5.56
+7.62
.300 winchester magnum
+ .50 tungsten carbide...
blue helmets ROFL (you are just funnin' us right?) but I'll play....who the fuck's gonna "command" 'em? and even if they had a CENTCOM, still a clusterfuck
you got me goin' though.....hmmm...contemplating scenarios,,,,will advise
I imagine it will be the great military leaders of Italy and France. It does make you tremble to think about.
"I imagine it will be the great military leaders of Italy and France. It does make you tremble to think about."
Didn't I read somewhere (oh yeah, here) that the Turkish Army wasn't doing anything particularly important right now? I'm sure they could provide some battlefield C&C...
Aint no damn blue helmets heir on the strauss. Hay-ul no damn it
Scrat run after the nuts and hurry fast before you lose em all.
One Debt to rule them all, One Debt to find them, One Debt to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
As a citizen empowered under the US Constitution, a blue helmet is a legitimate target.
Now hold on there feller! Before we start shooting them up, why don't we ask exactly which assets they came for? I don't think that I could bring myself to start unloadin' on em if they only came to take Pelosi, Reid, Obama, etc back with them - or to occupy DC, LA or Detroit.
None of those is an asset...all are liabilities
Just think, China is going to end up the biggest bagholder ever known to mankind!!! ROFL
When US defaults, Greece will tell the EFSF to Fuck Off! LOL So will Spain, Portugal, .....you get the picture.
China will be left BAGHOLDING!!!!!!!!!! Suckers!!!!!!!!!! and good for them too for making knock off crap and trying to get rich off it.
I likes it! unfortunately, may force China to reveal its alternate "economic powerhouse" = 400 million testosterone-charged, bored & aimless males
You think this is a game of Risk? How will they move 400 million guys out of China and into the US or Europe? Lot's of ocean between them and us and them. There would be a lot of fat sharks.
" How will they move 400 million guys out of China"
Look at the BDI, lotsa unused capacity there! Maybe the Greeks can use their shipping assets to "work off" their bond debt?
no, it's not a game, douche-bag.
1) there are no oceans twixt China & Europe...pick N, with the Emperor's blessings or S thru Iran
2) 400 Mil (wild-as guess) is just the intimidation factor...only need a tiny % of that
3) "oh...no prob...we just nuke the mofo's".... in your dreams. toss one little EMP & you have no firing switches & no telecom.... just standing there with your dick in your hand
4) ETC.
DARE TO DREAM BIG
ps: I have zero confidence in the paper-pushing, politcally quagmired, beaurocraticaly paralyzed, pansie-ass pussies in the Pentagram, killing time to their pensions & consulting gigs to defend us from a even a Hatian invasion; sure hope yer not banking on them
Ok, I'm a douche-bag. But I gotta tell ya it's better than being an internet retard.
1) and 2) You're gonna walk 400million (or 4 million as a tiny %) guys from China to Europe? What fucking planet do you live on? The logistics alone make this impossible. Don't forget that here in the 21st century we have flying machines. Those things make it tough to march across 2 continents.
3) Did I say nuke? We don't have to even invade China. 400 million guys make it tough egg to TAKE, but they ain't coming here. Not to mention an ICBM isn't going to be taken out by your EMP. They can go into outer space now. Really, it's true. Go to www.space.com they have pictures to prove it. If an ICBM was that easy to take out no one would be worried about nukes anymore.
4) ETC? Is this Nancy Pelosi? Come on, if it is just tell us.
I have a lot more confidence in those paper pushing pussies than I have in a guy that's suggesting the Chinese can march from Beijing to Berlin.
And after those troopers take over the desert in Mongolia, how far do they have to swim or march for their next conquest in a wilderness? Hmmm. Maybe they are not the 900 pound gorilla everyone imagines them to be. Natural limits and all, ya know.
nah, forget Mongolia... waste o' time. A challenge foraging Kazakhstan, true, but not so hard on the S route. Meanwhile, airlifting com-con to "special zone" [courtesy of the Tsar] outside Kiev, and etc. Pipedreams? sure. but if you got nothin' to lose.....WTF? one helluva adventure for the young-un's and way big booty for the fat cats
China has what? 6 Trillion dollars Yuan?
"Charge or Debit?"
Neither, the People's Vault Key here.... ka-ching, paid for.
Augh, first dupe.
The Chinese are the thing I fear more than the politicians incompetence. When the DC actors are going through their high-wire acrobatics it would only take a move by the Chinese to bring the house of cards down.
They announce they're sick of the charade and will be selling off their Treasuries, they decide to set up a new asset backed reserve currency maybe partnered with someone like Russia, India or Iran, maybe they send a missle into some US destroyer that is a little too close to their shore, what happens then? In some ways it serves their purposes. It takes down the old alpha dog and lets them take over that role. The external threat is the oldest trick in the book for putting down internal discontent and they have rising discontent. I have no way of guessing how likely it is but be assured they are looking into the possibility and running the risk/benefit analysis. They know Obama won't start WWIII over something that is largely of our making.
If they put a missile into a US ship
1) The world would flock to the dollar
2) Obama wouldn't have a chance to fuck it up, the Navy and Airforce would destroy anything Chinese within range of US bases or assets nearly instantly.
3) Europe, USA, Australia, Canada and others would instantly be out of recession. War time economies and the draft would eliminate unemployment.
4) Any debt owed to China would disappear... instantly.
5) China would no longer be a manufacturing nation. No oil would make it to her shores and no factories would remain.
I could go on and on but the end result would be the end of China as we know it. It would suck ass for the rest of us too, don't get me wrong, but it would be suicide for China.
This is so funny I don't know where to start! We can't bring a third world nation of 20 million under control (i.e., Afghanistan), however, I am to believe that a first world nation of 1.3 billion will be a walk over. A nation that also happens to control the supply of critical minerals necessary for missle guidance systems, etc... (i.e. rare earths).
And I almost forgot, the last time the Chinese and US air forces engaged, the US ended up begging the Chinese to return the remains of our super secret double probation spy craft.
And don't forget that the possibility that America has been installing Chinese made chips and components into critical systems that may be virus preloaded is keeping our national security apparatus up at night.
Sadly I think you're right. Our military, which is first rate IMHO, is strung to-hell-and-gone over this planet and lacks confidence in it's commander-in-chief. If the Chinese keep the provocation in line, i.e. a mere destroyer and not an aircraft carrier, Obama would seize the opportunity to divert attention, declare victory and walk off the field with his tail between his legs. Incidents happen all the time. When Wong Wei 'accidentally' collided with the spy plane it was in retaliation for when we 'accidentally' programmed a GPS smart bomb to hit the Chinese embassy in Serbia. And don't worry too much about the Chinese chips, only half of them have embedded viruses, the others are just defective counterfits.
TV,
You don't know much or are being deliberately disingenouous. yeah, it's really hard to fight against guerillias, and we're not tooled up for it -- 99% of what we have that isn't just plain ol boots on the ground is utterly useless. It's just about impossible when you can't tell them apart from the putative good guys, because they aren't a military using official gear, wearing uniforms and so forth.
Now, when it's a whole country, not just a hidden faction within it you're at war with....it's a very different story indeed. When it's military on military, the game is far different, and that is a game we ARE tooled up for We've got lots better stuff than we used to bomb Europe back to the stone age in WWII, and more of it, and no worries aobut "collateral damage". Far simpler problem even though the scale is larger.
Let's hope it doesn't happen, but your comparison is simply invalid as hell -- ask any military person or analyst.
Every conflict we've "lost" was due to trying to preserve the bulk of the population. That would't apply in this case.
America hasn't won a war since 1945. Unless, of course, you count the great Granada War. In fact, the last two times the US confronted the Chinese in actual battle was through proxy in Korea and Vietnam. And that didn't quite work out the way your analysts expected. I am not being disingenuous. America behaves exactly as a nation in decline behaves, complete with extreme overconfidence in its abilities. How's that military on military thing working out for you in Libya? It seems to be following the genius analysts' playbook perfectly ... quick in, quick out ... just like all the rest, Korean, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq. What did the analysts claim, again? That's right, a matter of DAYS. We are a technologically superior force. They have no navy, no modern airforce. I guess we should add military analyst to the list: economists, weathermen, analysts; wrong more times than they're right. Have you actually talked to any "military persons" lately? Perhaps, you should read the recent preparedness report that states that current inductees can't complete 50 mile forced marches with full pack. Yeah, this conflict should be easy, the enemy (Chinese) look much different than we do, should be easy to differentiate. Oh, no, we prolly can't do that, that would be too discriminatory, can't profile, can't have our precious children think ill of those who don't quite look as we do. Bomb to the stone age? Give me a fucking break! America doesn't have the stomach for war. In my lifetime alone, we've had ample opportunities to "bomb our enemies into the stone age" and yet we can't bring ourselves to the task. Fuck, wait until the EPA and/or the Sierra Club realize that some river in China is home to some rare ass snail darter. We'll send troops in to PROTECT the Chinese and their land. We'll turn the war into a humanitarian crusade. Before you junk away, remind me again how many fucking schools/infrastructure projects have we built in Iraq and Afghanistan using military personnel in the past 10 years?
Oh, and that 1945 thing. Keep in mind that the allies defeated Germany, considered the finest, most disciplined, most technologically advanced fighting force of the time.
China has taken the US 'battlespace' concept and also applied it in orbital space, cyberspace and financial space.
China has demonstrated anti-satellite weapons previously, and demonstrated that they could get a sub into the middle of a carrier group.
We would all be much better off if no one stepped up to this kind of conflict. There is no fun in getting your national power grid or your airspace control "cybered".
All that flag waving must give you pretty strong shoulders.
If they put a missile into a US ship
... if what? It's happened several times, USS Stark, HMS Sheffield (Pretty good show eh what?) and USS Cole among others...
1) The world would flock to the dollar
...What?! No no no. They are building a Yuan/Ruble (What is USSR's curent money called anyway?)....
2) Obama wouldn't have a chance to fuck it up, the Navy and Airforce would destroy anything Chinese within range of US bases or assets nearly instantly.
....Instantly aint gonna happen. Guam will be lost, Okinawa gone, Hawaii and some of our important Space assets needed to find targets on land and sea. Maybe even a carrier or two will be lost. It takes hours of flight time and days of sail time and humongous resources to target, plan, load and execute a attack....
3) Europe, USA, Australia, Canada and others would instantly be out of recession. War time economies and the draft would eliminate unemployment.
...Europe will face a winter without Russian or Siberia Gas, Austrailia will be on somewhat thin ice when her Mineral Exports quit moving or get sunk and Canada has her own worries....
...War time US Figures for draft that I know of show 18 million of fighting age men between 18 and 35. Half of which have never fought, will never fight and don't have the mindset to accept the training, draft or anything. The other half need 6 months with a good percentage washed out due ot medical, criminal or mental issues to become green and up to a year before deemed fit enough to ship out as "Replacements".,....
...China can snap fingers and speak a command and 2 million active duty will put boots on the ground and millions upon millions will mobilize.... Your US Military Unit will kill thousands, but when they are out of ammunition then they get buried in a human wave.....
Regarding Unemployment, they build artillery missiles south of here and Uniform hats etc. They also do other things such as MRE etc in just my state alone. To gather up 400,000 people and spool them up to speed at wartime tasks on a industrial scale will take months.
4) Any debt owed to China would disappear... instantly.
'''''Only to motivate China to hit us even harder. They nuke St Louis and Leesburg VA destroying most if not all of our Telephone networks and remove Walker Lake, Baytown, Hungington Ky, and most of the East Coast.... They have very large networks inside our own Nation in the form of Civilians within thier chinatowns and resteraunts which has existed for a hundred or two hundred years....
5) China would no longer be a manufacturing nation. No oil would make it to her shores and no factories would remain.
...They wont need to be, all they will have is resources and a great deal of it. The rest of the world will need it. She does not need oil. Only coal....
I could go on and on but the end result would be the end of China as we know it. It would suck ass for the rest of us too, don't get me wrong, but it would be suicide for China.
300 million US against 1 Billion Chinese is a null result. The damage done will pernamently create a void for Russia or Iran to step in to fill.
Stark, what happened to the Capt of the Stark? He was FIRED. You think another Capt is going to risk getting punked in front of the world? I doubt it. AWACS ordered planes in the air to intercept and destroy the attackers but ground control lacked the authority to scramble jets. Think they fixed that yet?
HMS and you lost me there. I said US.
USS Cole? Were they suppose to shoot at the dead bodies of the suicide bombers? Or the bits of what might have been bodies?
Yuan/Ruble? Get back to me with something real. Besides which, do you think the bulk of the wealth in the world would back China and Russia? You even think Russia would want to get involved? I don't, cause if they did the Yuble would already be real.
If they decided to sneak attack us I have a hard time believing we wouldn't know SOMETHING was up. Until they destroy those space assets at least.
And China will get it's oil where? You think they will be able to ship oil across the Pacific I suppose? Again you assume Russia would side with China. I don't think Russia wants war, they aren't ready and they don't need it.
Human wave eh? Unless they can walk on water they aren't a problem. You aren't going to suggest they will march to Europe like the moron above I hope.
Now we're nuking shit? Well then it's over cause everyone dies. They nuke us, we nuke them... then it gets cold and we all starve to death.
The war you describe above leaves everyone without a need for oil. We'll all be in the stone age if the nukes start flying. Even Iran and Russia.
Yeah, they could never walk from China to Europe to rape, conquer, and pillage. No one's ever done that before. Good thing they can't walk from China to Afghanistan either.
I'm going to assume you're making a joke. Anyone that thinks you could march from China to Europe today and survive has no creditability at all, and no idea what modern warfare is about.
The last people to make that march were on horseback, and the most advanced weapons used string for fuck sakes!
Yeah I'm joking. Here's another joke for you: I think 19 men armed with box cutters could kill over 3,000 people.
BTW, from the western Chinese border to Warsaw, Poland is a little over 4k KM. From Charleston SC to Bagdad is over 10K KM. So I guess distance doesn't really matter.
Think 19 men armed with box cutters could pull it off again? Remember people were trained to do as the hijackers said and everything would be ok? Yeah, seems like that's over.
So you are comparing Iraq to Europe? You think the US and Europe would just let all those Chinese just march on over and set up shop? You don't think they'd kill them in transit? You don't think it would be a death march the entire way over?
You are a retard. I can't have a conversation with with a mental defect about something that requires at least an IQ of about...95? Have a nice life.
Freddie,
What's all of this fear business? All I have heard on the street since I returned three months ago is Fear; fear of flies, sewage, water, ants, mosquitoes, bats, etc.------and now you are using the same word.
Sorry to be so strong about this, but it will all work out-----'she'll be all right, mate'
I've never been anywhere except the US of A where the word fear was the first thing out of a person's mouth.
Never forget that there ain't no way out of here except death---and death ain't such a bad friend om
Odumbo the Commie-in-Chief is smiling a smile as wide as the Grand Canyon. His grand plan to destroy the United States of America is sailing smooth.
He is slobbering like a teenager with his first kiss while touching boob.
That poor man is gonna faint while his head swells and swims with the ultimate power of the mighty credit card limitless raising no one can deny!~ No credit check here.
and his 13 year old buddy chimes in too...
Ahhh, the 12 year olds repeating what grumpa said after watching Teevee
And the charade continues. My take on this is that it will continue for another week or two, and then there will be unconditional surrender on both sides. The debt ceiling will be raised with very little spending cuts.
Since it's not looking good on Capitol Hill, do you think the Russians would be interested in buying back Alaska along with some Palins to be named later?
Yes, but Palin will make a discount in this deal.
And we can cut California to China and give New York to the Italians.
That should settle everything.
How about Mass. and NY with a Schumer shit head and Frank "gurgler" thrown in?
" "It’s not going anywhere," said McConnell. "It will not pass the Senate, It will not pass House."
At least the Boehner bill passed the House...
Boehner wins!!! Errr...huh?
We need few more parties here - no? The Tea Party should leave Reps, Greens should form from both parties, extreme left should leave Dems and form the socialist party. The Centrist party would be very welcome. Once we rearrange this circus, it will be easier to negotiate. I know it sounds too far stretched for some, but this is how Europeans are dealing with the political spectrum.
The greens are disgustingly tree huggers.
socialists will be hunted.
Centrists are too wishy washy.
It's Tea Party all the way. Politics be damned, it's a bunch of bullshit and mutual circle jerking.
In the current paradigm I think additional parties would be good. Not because the Eurocreeps do it, but for other reasons. However, I don't think that's the ultimate solution. I keep coming back to a singular, simple solution - that being to redirect our federal income taxes to the states who would then forward the money to the fed on a per capita, line item basis as per the states' interpretation of what was constitutional. Any balance the state would keep. This would strangle the federal beast, creative the kind of political incentive you're talking about (albeit between the states and not parties), and drive each state to adopt it's own political personality. The ability of businesses and labor to pack up and move to a different state (taking their revenue) with them, would lead states to hopefully govern from a more centrist position while allowing citizens to choose what sort of social issues were important to them in their own state without infringing on the labor of residents in other states. Meanwhile, the fed still gets funded for it's enumerated responsibilities, but the states (and the residents) are forced to live within their means due to the balanced budget requirements in most state constitutions. Sounds hairbrained on the surface, but I've given it a lot of thought and I think it could work - even surviving in the courts as the fed would certainly challenge it.
I don't think more political parties solves anything. Instead, I'd like to see a change in voter eligibility - specifically, only property owning non-government employees should be allowed to vote. They have the most skin in the game and therefore stand to lose the most.
Add "and not recieving direct gov benefits" to that and you have what all the old philosphers have said -- and I'm with you.
"Once the plebes discover they can vote bread and circuses for themselves, it's all over for that empire". No exceptions have ever been recorded.
Lovely, lets go back to the days where only white Christian land owning men of good standing can vote, shall we?
Fact of the matter is, each person's life and their say in a democracy is equal. You end up in a system where someone's say is based on how much wealth they have accumulated? Well, that's not a democracy any more.
That's rule for the rich by the rich.
Despite your objections, a universal suffrage has already led to "rule for the rich by the rich!" What's that definition of insanity again?
Look at how in-ept this sitting class has been so far. Why would they be expected to do the "right" thing? Why will decades of behaviour change overnight? I don't think e-mail petitions make them feel threatened. Exposure does. And they've all got skeletons in their cupboards.
Anyways, all this is timing exquisitely for Obama's birthday, August 4th (supposedly), in this 4 year (2011)...
Hmmmm.....Something is being primed to give.
ORI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLco5ISptdA&feature=related
Why do you think they are acting the way they are? Ever since those huge naurus boxes got put into all the phone exchanges, the security agencies know all the dirt on all the politicians. What use they are making of that data we don't know, but it sure looks like they now get everything they ask for, every time....Now to predict the future, look at whatever the agenda is for those agencies...it will come true. All it will take is a phone call or two reminding them who's their daddy and who knows where the bodies are buried.
http://www.narus.com/ Are doing pretty well these days. This ain't tinfoil hat stuff. An AT&T employee who got fired for entering the "Secret new building addition" published pictures of enough stuff to essentially tap 100% of the connections in every major exchange -- a little computer work for speech to text, a little searching of that and some traffic analysis and there you have it. I've got copies of the pictures -- they kinda disappeared off the net real quick, but slashdot posted links and I grabbed copies and his story.
The Shadow Knows
Fascinating. I thought Echelon had all this taken care of a long time ago.
ORI
Um, where exactly does it say in the 14th Amendment does it give Obama the power to increase the debt ceiling on his own? I don't think so.......
In fact, the supremecy clause of Article VI of the Constitution prohibits such action. Each state has the power to govern its own affairs, and the powers of federal and state are to be excercised as not to interfere with each others' excise of power. The Congress represents the states, the Constitution gives the power to the state's to enact laws, NOT OBAMA.
Section 5 of the 14th Amendment also says Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
So Obama doesn't have the power to do squat!!!!!!!!! Probably some stupid ass banke dreamed up this crap that he can use the 14th amendment to life the debt ceiling on his own. The amendment states we should pay our debts, not raise our debt ceiling whenever we feel like it.
Who came up with this crap, some black Congressman from a po-dunk state?
Never mind Ronald Dworkin.
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2011/jul/29/can-obama-extend-debt-ceiling-his-own/
In order to expand federal executive power it would take a Supreme Court ruling, and there is no basis in the 14th Amendment for these morons to do it. It clearly says, legitimize debts and pay debts, no raise the debt ceiling. Good lord, if that were the case, we don't need a Congress. Jeezzz.......................
I saw that article you posted before, it is just more of the same dribble. I read it and realize even our own Congress has no clue....that is the kind of idiots we are electing these days.
What about direct monitezation via the Treasury?
http://www.economyincrisis.org/content/way-around-debt-limit-impasse
Once again, monetization is a "coining of the currency", yet another power given to Congress and only Congress. And for this reason, I believe Benny Boy Bernanke and his buddy Timmah need to be charged with violation of the Constitution, aka Treason. A grand jury would indict them in a New York Fed minute.....the amount of time in a New York Fed minute can be easily determined by using the appropriate HFT algo at the Goldman Sachs headquarters. It is very fast.....
Plus, the 14th Amendment is clear about who has authority to enforce the provisions of Amendment in Section 5. If anything, the 14th Amendment gives Congress clear and total authority to demand from the Treasury that existing debts be paid from tax receipts, ergo, no default.
You are absolutely right. The whole 14th Amendment issue is red herring. It does not grant the President the right to pay the bills, if Congress says 'no '.
They could also use the 14th Amendment to argue against Obama using the 14th Amendment, using this stipulation contained within it
The magic word is "Incurred."
The only debts we have suffered is since Obama was elected. Wipe em all off the table and wipe off everyone else too.
Jubiliee anyone?
Let's put Jennifer Lopez's ass and LeBron James up as collateral AKA "Ronaldo as ECB collateral" style to raise the debt ceiling!...makes sense to me considering the ideas coming out of congress!
i would rather put up a toxic asset like AROD
Would folks please stop talking about a 14th amendment move.
There is no such thing AND EVEN IF THERE WAS IT WOULD BE POINTLESS.
All spending authority expires with the FY2011 Continuing Resolution in effect right now on 1 October. Therefore, any 14th amendment maneuver becomes worthless in 6 weeks.
And you can rest assured the House would be 100% enraged by any such maneuver and cut him off entirely with no CR on 1 October. Spending would only be re-authorized if he resigns.
You might even find 4 Dem Senators who agree.
Two words: martial law
Can we just pass it and find out what's in it later? Woops, there were 14 trillion in cuts we forgot to tell you about, kinda' thing.
Isn't that the way Washington conducts business?
Like having to report any purchase over $600 to the IRS, I'm so glad that was in the healthcare bill. The 4% tax on the sale of my home starting in 2013, yeah, I'm soooooo happy that was in the healtcare bill.
This will send the 'market' soaring higher....somehow.
Gold.
Oh they will grunt and strain suffering strokes and anyresums holding up the market for a while.
Eventually Gravity must take hold.
Mother Fucking Republicans ...
In 1995 Republicans Morons shut the Government in over-reach stupidity,
Then these Idiots Impeached Clinton over his private sex life,
Then these Fools took a 2000 budget surplus and strong dollar and TRASHED THE FUCK,
Then these A-holes started the 1st pre-emptive war in history looking for weapons that never exisited,
Then these Cocks destroyed our national integrity with the 1st torture in history becuz of incompetence,
Then these Dicks atttacked the 1st Black President in history from Day 2 as in destroy that NIGGER,
...The best thing for America is CIVIL WAR and send these Pricks Forever 2 Political Eternity.
Cannot be any worse than fat cat dems shoving daddy o for more money to spend, always more.. never enough bling to fill thier empty souls.
That nigger (your words) voted against the debt ceiling and had this to say about it
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
Not only that, every single Senate democrat (100%) (including Obama) voted against the debt ceiling when Bush was in office. Here's the vote ASSHOLE http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00054
While you're at it, why don't you look up who controlled the congress under Bush. Nevermind, you're probably too much of a dumb fuck to look something like that up, so I'll tell you. It was controlled by DEMOCRATS
SO SHUT YOUR STUPID FUCKING MOUTH
Go back to huffingtonpost with all the other unemployed losers collecting welfare bitching about how racist the world is because they can't hold a job.
Gotta give it to ya, as harsh as this post seems, it is 100% fact and can not be disputed!!!!!!
Bob, what you lack in diplomacy and political correctness is boldly replaced with logic and on the record facts. Ya gotta love the hipocracy that is Obama enshrined in the Senate record for all to see.
Political correctness is a vile and poisonous discipline that has brought our country to her knees.
I am grateful my moral constitution has not one lick of it anywhere. I call it like I see it, and straight to the point.
That peice of shit above (republi-ken) should also read up on the Jim Crowe laws, in addition I'm sure he would be flabbergasted to discover that it was Republicans that fought for and earned the freedom of all of the liberties Blacks enjoy today. Most racism and slavery are rooted in the history of the democratic party, NOT, the republicans. Fuckin' idiot.
i am pretty sure they would win a Civil War