6 Hour Greek Meeting Ends With No Agreement, Troika Demands Answer By 11am Tomorrow, EURUSD Drifts Lower

Tyler Durden's picture




The Greek endgame appears to be approaching... or not. After a "marathon" (in Greek terms) session between the Greek coalition cabinet members ended with no definitive agreement, and in fact LAOS president said that more austerity would "contribute to a recession that the country can not afford, and a revolution of misery which will then burn down Europe", while New Democracy's Samaras stated he would "not permit any more austerity", even as Papademos on the other line apparently said that the leaders have agreed on 2012 spending cuts of 1.5% of GDP, the Troika seems to have had enough of being Greek'd around, and demands an answer by 11 am tomorrow. Supposedly, "or else" no more cash. Then again, we have heard all of this before. In fact, the Troika talks are continuing right now as European representatives entered the Greek PM office, following a late night meeting with the IIF. That said, the market is once again quite nonchalant about all of this, with the EURUSD trading down a modest 50 pips to 1.3107 having touched just under 1.3080 earlier. Bottom line: it is likely that nothing will happen tonight.

The following statement was released from the PM office:

PRESS OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER
Athens, 5 February 2012

 

The Prime Minister and the leaders of the three political parties supporting the government met in order to jointly decide on the main elements of the agreement with the troika regarding Greece’s new economic program in the framework of the new loan agreement.

 

The Prime Minister and the political leaders agreed on main issues, including:

 

1) The adoption of measures, in 2012, aiming to reduce public spending by 1.5% of GDP.

 

2) Safeguarding the viability of auxiliary pension funds.

 

3) Addressing the competitiveness deficit by taking measures including the reduction of wage and non-wage labor costs, aimed to support employment and promote economic activity.

 

4) The recapitalization of banks through a combination of measures that safeguard public interest and ensure the banks’ managerial autonomy.

 

The Prime Minister and the political party leaders will meet again tomorrow to conclude their talks on the content of the program.

More from Kathimerini:

"The prime minister and political leaders of three parties supporting the government met to take joint decision on the content of the basic elements of an agreement with the troika on the new economic program in Greece that is a prerequisite for new financial support the country.

 

The prime minister and political leaders will meet again tomorrow (Monday) to complete the consultations on the content of the program. "

 

Meetings and discussions

 

After the meeting it was decided the expanded extraordinary meeting of PASOK Political Council, on late Sunday evening, chaired by George A. Papandreou to discuss what was said at the meeting of political leaders and the course of negotiations with the troika. Extraordinary meeting and LAOS (the executives participating in government and their close associates) convened and the party president George Karatzaferis, concerning the proposals of the Troika of the measures to be taken by our country.

 

Moreover, at the Maximos Mansion went in the afternoon Sunday, the senior executives of the International Institute Chrmatopistotikou (IIF), Charles and Jean Lemier Dalaras - who are in Athens to finalize an agreement to restructure the Greek debt, known as PSI - for a meeting with the prime minister, after the meeting of political leaders. Later, Mr. Papademos would have another meeting with the heads of the troika.

 

Moreover, the state television network in Germany ARD, said that meeting the Prime Minister L. Papademos with the head of Deutsche Bank Josef Ackerman is scheduled for late Sunday evening, an unknown place in Athens. Object process impairment of Greek debt.

Earlier, at noon Sunday, Mr. Papademos met with the heads of the troika, these finance ministers and Labour. On last night negotiations, the troika leaders insisted on their demands to reduce labor costs, despite the remarks of Mr. Koutroumani to cause economic "hole" in pension funds

Finally, since every action has an equal, opposite and, when it comes to labor unions, preempted reaction, we learn that Greece's two largest labor unions are holding a 24 hour strike on Tuesday even before further austerity is finalized. From Reuters:

Greece's two major labor unions plan a 24-hour strike on Tuesday against austerity measures and reforms demanded by international lenders in exchange for a new bailout package, union officials said on Sunday.

 

"We are planning a one-day strike on Tuesday," Ilias Iliopoulos, secretary general of public sector union ADEDY, told Reuters. "Despite our sacrifices and despite admitting that the policy mix is wrong, they still ask for more austerity."

 

ADEDY and its private sector sister union GSEE represent about 2 million workers or roughly half the country's workforce. They have staged repeated strikes since the country first resorted to bailouts from foreign lenders in 2010.

 

A GSEE official said the two unions would on Monday finalize plans to strike

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Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:33 | 2129202 knukles
knukles's picture

Marathon meeting. 
Hah ha ha ha ha
That's funny.
Where are the Spartans when you need 'em?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:44 | 2129235 Popo
Popo's picture

The Spartans?  They're throwing eggs at the Prime Minister's house.   Why do you ask?

 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:05 | 2129270 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

seems like go daddy dot com is havin' some problems today too.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:19 | 2129298 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Supercomputer about to go online, reading and storing all the information in each and every single human brain:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2096522/The-singularity-Mind-b...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 18:49 | 2129442 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Anonymous will hack that too.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 18:59 | 2129457 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

They already did and only found porn inside.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:11 | 2129604 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Speaking of porn I am pretty sure that is all the IIF and Tapioka do in these meetings is bring a bunch of skanks and the politicians and bankers bunga bunga.  This can kicking in Europe is worse than America!  Unfucking believable.  We have no budget and haven't for years, they have no budget and haven't for years either!  We just pile on the debt like there is no tomorrow.  It is mind blowing!

Glad I have a hot date tonight, or else I would be stuck thinking about how totally fucked up finance is and how it appears it will last forever.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:42 | 2129656 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Sooner or later, you have to grab the bull by the tail and face the situation!" -- W.C. Fields

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 23:12 | 2129746 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Beyond Blunderdome

"Two idiots enter, one idiot leaves."

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 14:56 | 2131277 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

No,it gets worse
Two idiots enter, three idiots leave."

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:46 | 2129238 navy62802
navy62802's picture

The Spartans are getting ready for war. The Athenians, on the other hand, are preparing to capitulate.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:53 | 2129248 Gidas19
Gidas19's picture

Spartans are preparing to watch Super Bowl...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 18:39 | 2129256 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Lithuanian flag? I'm asking because I've never seen it before.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:32 | 2129567 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"Spartans are preparing to watch Super Bowl..."

Meanwhile, the Athenians are playing philosophy soccer.

... A plus one for anyone that is familiar with the root of philosophy soccer...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:12 | 2129605 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

+1 for Monty Python reference.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 22:03 | 2129682 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Soccer in togas.. yeah, it fits here.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 05:03 | 2129991 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

...and the winner is... Mr Lennon Hendrix...

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 01:10 | 2129882 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

The Greeks scored a beauty of a goal in the waning minutes in that one!  Socrates buries it!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8

 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:41 | 2129577 k. pablo
k. pablo's picture

Labas, Gidai!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 22:18 | 2129699 Gidas19
Gidas19's picture

zdarova! Lietuvi? visur yra...

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 02:30 | 2129926 akak
akak's picture

Na zdrowie do ty takze!

 

 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:02 | 2129262 zorba THE GREEK
zorba THE GREEK's picture

....Tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace...

Zorba is a Spartan, and we Spartans prefer not to become slaves to Northern EU.

Cut the cord now Greece and become reborn in a free country.

When a Spartan went to battle for the first time, he was given a shield and

took an oath:" Tan e epitas." Ancient Greek for " with it or on it " Which meant

they would come back victorious carrying their shield or dead being carried on

their shield. The Athenians may give in, but the Spartans will fight to the end.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:55 | 2129351 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

Enough talk. The Oprah approach is not working. It's time to bring in Maury Povich and reveal who gets hit with the lifelong support bill.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:49 | 2129583 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"enough talk"... Not here at ZH! Greece blah, blah, blah, Germany says blah, blah, blah, Troika says blah, blah, blah, Merkozy says blah, blah, blah, Europe says sanctions on Iran blah, blah, blah, US pissed that Russia vetoed Syrian vote blah, blah, blah...

Here is some real news: If the Atlantic oscillation slows or stops (Wiki Atlantic Oscillation), causing another mini ice age as happened about 1,100 years ago, the fucking Europeans are going to do any damn thing that Russia wants them to do... Why? Because Putin has a large gas valve on the wall of his office and when he doesn't like what the Europeans are doing he walks to the valve and turns it to the right... righty tighty remember? When Putin turns the valve the bull shit stops because the theiving pols and bankers don't want to be hung from lamp posts because their populations are freezing to death.

When Putin turns the valve the Northern Europeans can ice skate inside their homes... or, ski down their stairs.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:44 | 2129660 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Hmm, how many BTUs are in a typical Bankster?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 22:06 | 2129685 Manthong
Manthong's picture

OMG..

You found a constructive use for them..

                                          Bankster Briquettes

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 22:28 | 2129712 chump666
chump666's picture

That is a very good point.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 23:08 | 2129747 vh070
vh070's picture

Naah, they'll burn coal.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 01:18 | 2129888 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

Carla Bruni is very much in favor of coal burning.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 01:23 | 2129892 ChrisFromMorningside
ChrisFromMorningside's picture

"Go Icelandic, young man."

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 18:58 | 2129455 uranian
uranian's picture

marathon extra-godddddamn-ordinary meetings, at that.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:53 | 2129532 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

It's again a lot of noise. The Greeks have an ocean of time, till somewhere in March. More than a month! In politics that's eternity. Nothing to hurry. Of course they will make it and Greece will be forgotten by April. Boring world we live in.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:13 | 2129608 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hey that's right when the Fed's FX swaps are due back.  Guess Ben will have to loan them some more money!

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 03:14 | 2129748 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

Bennie Ben will print with all the pleasure of the world. It's his hobby, turned into his job, or the other way around, after all.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 01:11 | 2129884 hitsbig
hitsbig's picture

The Hits Big is your online source for music and art themed gifts, instruments, clothing, decor, jewelry, t-shirts, musician's accessories, books, metronomes, music stands, tuning forks, batons, table music stands and more.Hits Big

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:49 | 2129206 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Trojan Gift Horses. Look them in the mouth or not?

-On the next edition of Panem Et Circenses-

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:57 | 2129249 Goldilocks
Goldilocks's picture

Run Forrest Run (REAL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R_HIcE_TIE (2:34)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:11 | 2129479 palmereldritch
Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:55 | 2129533 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

This is who the U.S. has sent to diplomatically advise the Europeans as to how to 'fix' their current debt crisis:

 

Lael Brainard , the United States Under Secretary of the Treasury for International Affairs.


She's going to give them a straightforward, sound plan, that will resolve that which ails them, because those who can't do teach.

 

/sarc

 

*Interesting notes:  Lael Brainard is  married to Kurt Campbell, Obama's assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific Affairs.  

A China expert and former Clinton White House economic adviser, Brainard helps the Treasury grapple with the economic recovery and China currency issues.

She arrived at Treasury from the liberal Brookings Institution, where she helped start the Global Economy and Development program. She is a veteran of the Clinton administration, where she worked as the deputy director of the National Economic Council under Gene Sperling. She also advised Obama during his 2008 presidential campaign.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 20:13 | 2129554 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

Yep.  Another CFR Borg-hive Globalist working now to collectivize European feudal austerity in support of consolidating centralized industrial production in China.

All your industrial production are belong to us....

With the exception of Germany.  It will be telling to follow the relationship between Germany and China in the post-Euro world.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 22:46 | 2129723 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I believe the following excerpt from what her bio states is fancy-schmancy Wonk speak for "she helps Treasury devise ways, in cooperation with The Bernank, to debase Federal Reserve Notes, which most people confuse with United States Currency, at a rate that is fast enough to aid the 60 trillion FRN to 202 trillion FRN indebted United States in paying the interest on its FRN debt, while not heating the water too quickly, thus causing the frogs to leapeth from their pots before they can be cooked.":

 

Brainard helps the Treasury grapple with the economic recovery and China currency issues.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 00:27 | 2129779 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

They've never killed a world reserve currency before.  This is new territory.

Edit - Addendum

It will only be after the FED has spread its undead zombie debt infection into enough sovereign currencies that they can pull the trigger on a currency crisis worthy of their one world Global Phoenix currency solution.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/now-that-u-s-government-debt-has-been-downgr...

“A global currency issued by a global central bank?
Such a system would not be accountable to American voters whatsoever.
Not that the Federal Reserve is accountable to us right now, but at least there is some hope of abolishing the Fed under the U.S. Constitution.
Under a global central banking system, the American people would have essentially no power over the monetary system and the international bankers would have almost all the power.
Of course that is what the international bankers have always wanted – complete control over the financial system of the entire world.”

A solution to the crisis by the same banksters that created the crisis. Thesis, antithesis, solution.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 02:07 | 2129920 jonjon831983
jonjon831983's picture

Technically, wasn't the British Pound the world reserve currency before it was supplanted by the American Dollar?

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 03:09 | 2129956 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Yes and it created The Gold Standard which is why US elections were obsessed with Bi-Metallism in the 1890s. The US Dollar only supplanted Sterling because of the loans Britain took for itself and its French and RUssian Allies to fight the 1914-18 War and the debt servicing costs consumed 40% Government Spending.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 08:25 | 2130088 palmereldritch
palmereldritch's picture

In some ways perhaps it still is as it was never subsumed or submitteed to the Euro.  London's the City is the Debt Star for re-hypothecation and ponzi pedigree with the private Rothschild/Windsor BOE so in some ways it is very much alive in that regards (the term 'reserve' is used but of course it is not about savings or an asset but simply the default or dominant currency with the greatest capacity for debt production).  The British pound is a handy fall-back position as the USD/FRN platform and Euro mutually intertwine in a death rattle towards global synthesis.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:24 | 2129626 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

fiddy pence, for the benefit of your education: quite the contrary !

the German government has actually tried to keep the European Central Bank (ECB) independent

 EU Law actually prohibits the European Central Bank (ECB) from getting involved in political and sovereign Government fiscal policy which means :

No buying sovereign Government Bonds from any debt ridden Eurozone Countries,(including Greece)

no political involvement by the European Central Bank (ECB)

in any of the EURO-Zones sovereign fiscal policies

and No free Hand-outs or bail-outs by the European Central Bank (ECB).

The ECB is actually not allowed by EU Law to interfere in EU Countries sovereign

Government economic policy.

Now the IMF (what actually happened to DSK?) and Tim Geitner

has done anything and everything to try and infiltrate the ECB and install Goldman Sachs Stooges

like that Idiot GS-Monti to undermine the European Central Bank (ECB) and to undermine the EU strong mandate

for the the European Central Bank (ECB) independence. Why does Tim Geitner spent so much time lobbying Berlin?

Christine Lagarde, who by the way is jewish, replaced Dominique Strauss-Kahn (obviously DSK did not comply

with US policy) and Mario Monti of "former" and most probably "present" Goldman Sachs complicity became head of

the  European Central Bank (ECB) Bravo Tim Geitner !

Well, at least that Idiot David Cameron lend him an ear, to try his best (or worst) to fuck up  and undermine or corrupt the  European Central Bank (ECB)  mandate to remain independent.

Institutions like the IMF, the EFSF and now the ESM are there to keep the Economy "stable" if that is at all still possible with all the US/UK interference, and taking care of bailouts and Debt payouts and Loans to sovereign nations and Governments is NOT ,was Never the mandate of the European Central Bank (ECB) !

European Union laws and agreements forbids such an over-reach or breach of the  European Central Bank ECB's mandate !

Thats what the European Financial Stability Fund and the European Stability Mechanism (ESM)

were created for:  to keep the European Central Bank (ECB) completely independent of any Government.

Obama, Tim Geitner and Christine Lagarde and now Mario Monti are all complicit in trying to undermine the European Central Bank (ECB's) mandate of fierce independence, and make it more or exactly like the US FED Bernanke's led US Federal reserve Central Bank,and thereby bugger their Neighbours, in their case : The whole fucking World!

The US FED Central Bank has a 2 mandates:

1) to keep fiscal stability via the manipulation of Interest rates,Debt Auctions ZIRP,TWIST,

2)  to promote Jobs Growth and economic growth by buying its own bonds (POMO) TWIST,even even actively taking over and bailing out companies that are TBTF or Trainwrecks like Lehmann or AIG and lately again MF-Global etc...

Now the European Union agreement forbids the European Central Bank (ECB) from getting politically directly involved in the political and Government handling of fiscal economic policy,like QE or Bail-outs or devaluing its currency by increasing the Money supply as the US does. Keep in mind that the USD is actually the benchmark Reserve Currency for the entire world, or at least that's what it was meant to be !

But Bernank and Tim Geitner and Obama have been trying to do this one thing:

Keep the Exchange-Rate of the USD at rock-bottom versus all other currencies to make it easier to export and underbid every country,especially Germany while keeping the Euro proped up so the chinese dont buy too much german Products and more US exports.

However this is not working, except for Apple Computers which have gotten a bit cheaper all around the world.

But when it comes to Cars or manufacturing, the US is falling behind.

What would you rather drive as a nouveau - riche Chinese: A Mercedes, BMW, Porsche , Ferrari, lamborghini, Toyota, or a Ford ?

anyway fiddy pence,

this is no longer a matter of wether I am German or Russian, or Chinese or (God forbid) American.

This has gone way beyond any nationality, race, creed or religion.

This is ALL about POWER.

total Political and Economic POWER

Thats all -

and by the way, I am a roman catholic as most of southern Germans still are last time I checked,

but I don't really see where religion or your "guilt" comes in on all of this.

You can't just stick Labels on me, or entire countries fiddy pence, If you wanna figure ou this world, you got to travel a bit, learn another language or two, learn about another culture, study a bit and look at people, talk to people, live with people, know their fears, hopes and dreams....

(don't just sit on a think-tank panel , talking shit , then invade other countries trying to create the world according to some pre-concieved Idea to instill some concept or dogma of limited knowledge and understanding to resurrect the outmoded Imperial british colonial system of slave-trading markets and hopium wars.

(those other cultures and nations have survived and have been the very basis of human cultural endeavour, wisdom and real knowledge for millenia )

Perhaps then you maybe realize what this is all about.

It is about the Elite trying to rule the masses by

creating division and confusion, to keep ruling

and enslaving the people divided.

This is not about me, German Roman Catholic

and you, American, protestant, muslim or jewish.

It is not about that at all.

This is all about the Power and the Money !

It is all about fear of death and fuck everyone else,

as long as we are o.k. Jack or whatever your name might be.

so think, fiddy pence think !

besides that, I don't really give a fuck,

ws;)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:38 | 2129211 Pretorian
Pretorian's picture

Troika should know that Greeks have invented sex and then the rest of the world invented sex with a woman. So dont turn your back on a Greek until 11am.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:42 | 2129226 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

And Bankers only taught Greeks a fraction (al reserve) of their knowledge on how to come from the blind side.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:38 | 2129215 czarangelus
czarangelus's picture

Greece should just surrender its sovereignty to Germany and allow the Germans to teach them industry and productivity.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:41 | 2129222 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Just as the US did with Mexico and using Brady Bonds !

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 07:37 | 2130051 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Greeks as slaves to Germans? That might work, but you better hope the Greeks don't get their hands on guns. The only reason a "free" country stays free is because the populace is well armed and the politicians have no where to run. I hope that any European reading this sees what is going on in Greece and makes a point of getting some type of fire arm because it is coming down to that. The US was founded on an extremely healthy suspicion of central government and any central power. You can see what happens when "government" takes the power from the people. The "government" has lead its own people to poverty and slavery in Greece. Why? Because the Greek "government" is not afraid of its people. The Greek "government" will pull a Syria and go out on murder day to shut them the fuck up if they have to. The bankers will support it and the Greek "government" will not be charged with anything. No NATO protection for the persecuted Greek civilians either -sorry. Try that shit in the US and there will be fuckin' lead flying through the air. Thats why it has not happened here yet--the bankers and .gov are a bit nervous about it. Times are a changin' though.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 07:43 | 2130053 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I just have to wonder what you would do if you were a leading member of the Greek Gov or the Troika or the German Gov...

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 07:57 | 2130070 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

Well then, I would be either one of the slime bags who brought this on, or one of the slime bags who facilitated it. In which case I would attempt to redeem myself somehow, having lead the masses to such destitution. Its time the people of Greece realize that no "government" pension or "government" benefit is real and enduring. It is simply a control mechanism. I would bring back the Drachma, and revitalize my industries (maritime and tourism). Get my people back to work as Greeks and not as slaves (to Europe or to "government"). We would have at least a few rigorous years but we would come back stronger and more free and more human. The government would be reduced almost entirely down to basic national defense and minor legislation to reduce tax overhead on the citizens and enterprise. I would make my business climat the best in the world and prosperity would follow - Greek people would be free and not slaves.

Thats what- 

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 08:06 | 2130077 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

nice plan - sensible. the medicine the Greek ought to ask for. though what would you do if there is a referendum and the people reject your plan because it entails major losses of purchasing power for some 60% of the population? would you brand them as idiotic wannabe-slaves of a too-big government?

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 08:27 | 2130101 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

I do not blame the people for too much reliance on the "government". The people thought they had elected superb leadership and the people made a mistake. We all make mistakes. We have done the same by entrusting our leadership in the US. It seems we have made mistake after mistake. We have less freedom each year, each decade--it is a slow process when your politicians are afraid of their populace. The people are the life blood of their country and not to be made slaves by their own "government". 

The people in my country would have some difficult years as we transitioned from a collective "government" centric society to a self-determined collective society. We may have trouble at first with a currency that does not go too far, but the Drachma would get stronger and eventually earn respect. We would be fine, it would just take some time.

Perhaps a referendum would be the way to make the transition from serfdom to citizenship. I suspect that the transition is going to simply come naturally though. Unfortunately, only a legitimate government can have a referendum-and my opinion is that the Greeks have some real empty suits representing them--and yes, that sounds all to familiar to my own country (US) difference being a well armed populace. The people need to limit their government in any country or else the result will always be slavery. We all make mistakes, the object is not to repeat them...

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 07:57 | 2130068 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

czarangelus... "Greece should just surrender its sovereignty to Germany and allow the Germans to teach them industry and productivity."

.........................................

Greece already surrendered it's sovereignty to Germany... during WW2.

How well did that work out?

The German Army, resembling nothing so much as an infestation of locusts, lived off the land, looting and eating everything that wasn't shipped back to Germany. Meanwhile, the Greeks starved by the thousands.

In future you might want to open a few history books prior to sticking your foot into your mouth.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 08:23 | 2130085 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Snidley, are you having a bad hair day? Your comments are usually much, much better.

Greece is a byproduct of the dismemberment of the Ottoman Empire - the Brits and the French wanted it, Lord Byron went as a rebel-helper, and all that.

Greece had once a Bavarian King, at the time when the Great Powers somehow agreed to keep their collective hands from Greece.

The Germans were in Greece only because the Italians could not resist and invaded Greece, mostly through their colony Albania. Afterwards, Mussolini called for a "military bailout".

The Greeks tried to take (more of) Turkey's coast, between the wars - look up the Megali Idea - and caused themselves untold misery.

Show me one army that did not live off the land like locusts during WWII. Except for the US Forces, that is. Everywhere you had starvation if the local food was not enough for both the occupying army and the population.

Greece joined the EU after special pressure by the UK/US and joined the eurozone after special US pressure, by the way, hence the Squid cooking the books.

In fact, some not-very-vocal but influential people in the eurozone were decrying those manouvers as a UK/US sabotage of the eurozone even before it came out how much Goldman Sachs cooked the Greek Government's books so that Greece could join the EZ. I'm not joining in with them, but there is an angle there...

This Greek-Serfdom and German-blablabla just generates strange notions, IMHO...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:39 | 2129217 resurger
resurger's picture

Reducing the wage of labor cost by firing more people.

aint that the strategy of every CEO?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 18:06 | 2129370 agent default
agent default's picture

Yeah, and look at what it's done for the US.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 00:38 | 2129862 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

And Pol Pot, or whoever the new LAOS president is, said austerity will lead to the new "killing fields."

 

At least they got that going for 'em....

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:39 | 2129219 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

"Maybe"

On it goes!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:40 | 2129220 GCT
GCT's picture

Fun and games is just about over.  Time to put up of default.  Greece ought to tell them all goodbye and issue the Drachma.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:05 | 2129269 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

That would spoil the script. Greece is just practice. A couple of others and then we'll get to the main event.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:16 | 2129612 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Yup.  Got to kick the Greek can as long as possible because when you stop Portdegaul and Espana are going to ask for bailouts too!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:40 | 2129221 emsolý
emsolý's picture

This deadline is about as moot as the 3 o'clock afternoon toe from the Big Lebowski

 

Walter: You want a toe? I can get you a toe, believe me. There are ways, Dude. You don't wanna know about it, believe me. 
Dude: Yeah, but Walter... 
Walter Sobchak: Hell, I can get you a toe by 3 o'clock this afternoon... with nail polish. These fucking amateurs... 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:08 | 2129277 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

Walter: Shut the fuck up, Donny. Where as what we have here, a bunch of fig-eaters, wearing towels on their heads tryin' to find reverse on a Soviet tank. This, this is not a worthy fucking adversary.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 21:17 | 2129613 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Where's the austerity, Greece?!

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:40 | 2129223 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

What part of "game over" don't they get?

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:43 | 2129232 resurger
resurger's picture

Its always "gg" , never "bg"

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:43 | 2129231 SAME AS IT EVER WAS
SAME AS IT EVER WAS's picture

Tantalizing suspense-live action ladies and gents!   

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:47 | 2129240 prains
prains's picture

OR ELSE!!!!........ooooooooooooooh we really mean it this time damn it.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:21 | 2129301 XitSam
XitSam's picture

This is your ultra, double-secret, very final, last chance deadline. Do not think you can ignore this deadline like you ignored the other 39 deadlines.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:30 | 2129317 valley chick
valley chick's picture

well ...sure not setting my alarm to find out.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:29 | 2129315 BORT
BORT's picture

Double Secret Probation is next

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:45 | 2129237 SLOMO66
SLOMO66's picture

Taking bets on who will cave first...

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:23 | 2129303 XitSam
XitSam's picture

History says I should pick Italy.

Mon, 02/06/2012 - 00:02 | 2129825 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

My reading of history tells me; France..

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:46 | 2129239 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

 

It would be useful if the Greek government and everyone else would cut the sugar coating and level w/ the various peeps out there: Greece, Europe, US, China etc..

The good ol' days are done, the problem is an energy shortage emerging in the credit 'sector'. It cannot be fixed.

Sacrifices need to be made by everyone and a new way of living put into action. Citizens will have to cut fuel use in half then cut that half again and again. The grandshildren will need energy, too.

Managers lie to themselves, believing that 'growth' will come tomorrow if only the poor counties can hold on for one more day. The growth is never going to come, time to start planning around its absence.

Like it or not austerity is here, there are no ways around it. The world's inexpensive fuel supplies have been burned up with nothing to show for it. What fuel remains is unaffordably expensive.

 We are all Greece now, sitting in a lifeboat. Time for all to pull the oars.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:49 | 2129245 prains
prains's picture

backwards is the new forwards (less 1%)

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:07 | 2129469 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

You're actually more or less correct, Steve, for the 1 billion humans who will remain.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 19:55 | 2129534 luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

"steve from virginia"..."Time for all to pull the oars."

Unlike Greeks, americans (I hope) will not be throwing rocks, in protest!

Time is near, ready all those bullets and firearms!

Let's go down fighting?...Right?    Man, Women and Child!

IT'S WAR...ON THE CRIMINALS!!

 

 

 

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:47 | 2129241 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

will they won't they will they won't they,  the suspense is killin me

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:52 | 2129242 John Law Lives
John Law Lives's picture

The crack baby wants some more crack.  Let us see if the crack whore mother has the resolve to deny the crack baby some more crack.

100% FUBAR.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:52 | 2129246 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

Glad to see Papandreou is still in the game.

From his last days as prime minister, the super-hilarious one-minute musical video 'F-ck You Papandreou', with its lyrics to the tune of Falco's 'Amadeus':

« ... But Papandreou didn't give a sh-t, and then he said
'I'm gonna hold a referendum about this deal of yours'
And then the leaders of the Eurozone said 'F-ck you Papandreou' »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x43dCWkDWFU

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:01 | 2129261 MindTheGAP
MindTheGAP's picture

Papandreou is the major candidate for the guillotines.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:09 | 2129278 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Papandreou to the rescue. He had the solution to the Greek debt crisis almost in hand, as he reached out to Jordan's Queen Rania at Davos 2011:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/alistair-osborne/7105916/Gree...


Mon, 02/06/2012 - 07:47 | 2130058 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Papandreu is an asshole. You don't joke with the referendum card - ever. He pulled a bluff and folded because he was not serious from the beginning. Fact is Greece has to do quite a lot of homework and this entails some hard decisions for the future.

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:53 | 2129247 navy62802
navy62802's picture

Wait. Stop the presses. I thought L-Pap was supposed to resign if there wasn't a deal this weekend. So, is that going to happen??

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 16:59 | 2129257 valley chick
valley chick's picture

I'll take "Greece will cave and be serfs" for $100 Alex....

Sun, 02/05/2012 - 17:38 | 2129329 Whiner
Whiner's picture

You can have a Lotta fun on a stolen credit card, until, You know, you can't anymore. Card privileges stop in a nano second. Then you put on your thongsandles and orange jump suit and go into that noisy place and eat baloney sandwiches. You can scream all you want. Then you go in the hole. Your miserable for a long time. No need to bankrupt against the debt. Only the Mafia will lend to you. They have extraordinary, nonjudicial collection remedies. Yep. Better get back to work as an organ monkey.

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