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Acumen Vs Academic: Gross Sends Siegel Back To 'Ivory Tower'

Tyler Durden's picture




 

While Roach vs Meyer was an outstanding battle - played out face-to-face in the CNBC Squawk Box cage - the Academic vs Acumen drama playing out between Jeremy 'sluggish' Siegel and Bill 'the bond' Gross on Bloomberg TV is far more entertaining. The constant fall-back to age-old textbook definitions of mean-rerting reality and old normal 'expected' returns ran head first into the sage practitioner world of Gross's 'end of equities' call. While Siegel claims Gross 'totally misunderstands' the real-world citing his Dow 5000 call from 2002; Gross rips back with a swift kick to the credibilities with his: Siegel is "tilting at windmills and he belongs back in his Ivory Tower."

 

"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" - Tyson (or perhaps KCG's CEO or Siegel and his BTFD mentaility)

 

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Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:45 | 2673636 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Poor Jeremy. He hasn't learned to shut up.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:46 | 2673644 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Fight Club!

I will take the experience (Bill G) over the academic (Jeremy) every time.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:48 | 2673658 bdc63
bdc63's picture

CLEARLY these guys need to go back and review the rules of fight club ....

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:02 | 2673708 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

BACKGROUND CHECK

He has been a frequent guest on the business TV program Kudlow & Company on CNBC, where supply-side economics fan Lawrence Kudlow hosts. He is a supply-sider like Kudlow.and Kudlow is a dumb schmuck journalist acting like he is some big shot.

 

HISTORY

In a BusinessWeek interview in May 2000 when asked about the stock market, he replied: 7% year real returns on stocks is what I find over nearly two centuries. I don't see persuasive reasons why it should be any different from that over the intermediate run. In the short run, it could be almost anything.

yes, touting 7% return right when dotcom crash is starting....this guy doesn't know what the heck he is talking about

 

CONFLICT OF INTEREST

This guy owns 2% of WisdomTree (WETF) ETF seller which IPO'ed in 2011.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:10 | 2673751 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

I cant wait 200 years to only collect a 6.6% return!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:13 | 2673767 AldousHuxley
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In last 30 years, take away 401k scam you get return no much better than boring ass bonds after inflation.

last 10 years, stocks went nowhere. only banksters made bonuses on short term bets.

 

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 17:40 | 2674097 Popo
Popo's picture

Sorry, but Gross came off looking like an idiot.  You can't smack down anyone with a bungled literary reference.  

Gross:  "He is pushing at windmills".  

Huh?  That means nothing. Fail.  

The expression is "tilting at windmills", Bill.    I guess he never read Cervantes.   

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 18:14 | 2674177 akak
akak's picture

And he would probably assume (like most literarily ignorant Americans) that the "Don" in the title of "Don Quixote" is the eponymous character's first name.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 21:21 | 2674561 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Sancho Panza was fat, lazy, ignorant, naive, greedy just like most Americans.

so stupid that they are easily fooled into stupid tilting of windmills by even crazy old man like Don Quixote or George Bush.

 

perhaps Kansas board of education is right about evolution being just a theory. retards all over the place are proving Darwin is wrong.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:10 | 2673755 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

To be fair Bill Gross isn't much better.

He plays good cop bad cop with  his co-CEO El-Erian (frequent guest on CNBC bullshit show).

 

El-Erian comes out during potential depression for more Fed support on CNBC.

Bill Gross comes out during potential equity booms with negative news with more formal interviews in different channels.

 

This is to keep money in bonds which is what pimco sells.

 

Also, pimco guys begged the government to BAILOUT Fannie Mae Freddie Mac....so they are part of socialism for me, capitalism for you party

 

As far as performance of pimco's total return fund,a simple US treasury ETF beat his fund over last 5 years.

http://chart.finance.yahoo.com/z?s=TLO&t=5y&q=l&l=on&z=l&c=PTTRX,^GSPC&a=v&p=s&lang=en-US&region=US

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 22:14 | 2674679 FRBNYrCROOKS
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Larry Kudlow is a fart-licking faggot. He used to toss Reagan's Salad.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:49 | 2673661 Cognitive Dissonance
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"Gross rips back with a swift kick to the credibilities....."

So is THAT what we're calling them today?

Note to self. Protect my credibilites at all cost.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:55 | 2673681 CrimsonAvenger
CrimsonAvenger's picture

Ow! Right in the credibilities!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 17:03 | 2674013 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Anybody who wants to kick me in the credibilities will have to locate my wife's purse first.

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:55 | 2673664 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I saw the screen shot that said "Wharton Professor", which meant I didin't need to watch this because of the two featured, one puts their money where their mouth is, the other is a few months away from a full pension.

No contest.

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:55 | 2673676 akak
akak's picture

I would tend to agree with you here, DoChen, but I will NEVER forgive Bill Gross for his former defenses of, and toadying and abject servility to, every move on the part of the Fed during the first couple of years of the current world financial crisis.  Bill Gross is no hero speaking truth to power, not by a long shot.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:03 | 2673705 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Bill Gross is a pimp. There, I said it.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 22:07 | 2674674 FRBNYrCROOKS
FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

Have you ever read PTRAX prospectus? It's packed with the same dog dodo that sank Lehman. Shitty Bonds and CDS. I wouldn't be suprised if PIMCO blew up one day. It's all a mind trick. 

 

It amazes me there is hardly a world spoken about Knights meltdown or the whereabouts of John Corzine but, plenty of coverage of these little bitches whining on Bloomberg and CNBC. Not a word out of Tom Brokaw. 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:10 | 2673750 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Gross was still dancing back then simply because everyone else was. Now he's put his nose into the air and he realizes that the scent of the rotting carcass has changed direction. Plus he's beginning to see an angry mob out on the horizon.

Exit stage right. He's just dancing to a new tune bro. If I may quote Margin Call......."Be first, be smarter or cheat".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOO1NY6ctYU&feature=related

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:49 | 2673660 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"Pushing at windmills" - I dont get it?

Someone please explain the quote!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:56 | 2673685 SgtShaftoe
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He meant to say tilting at windmills.  It's a Don Quixote reference:

At this point they came in sight of thirty forty windmills that there are on plain, and as soon as Don Quixote saw them he said to his squire, "Fortune is arranging matters for us better than we could have shaped our desires ourselves, for look there, friend Sancho Panza, where thirty or more monstrous giants present themselves, all of whom I mean to engage in battle and slay, and with whose spoils we shall begin to make our fortunes; for this is righteous warfare, and it is God's good service to sweep so evil a breed from off the face of the earth."

"What giants?" said Sancho Panza.

"Those thou seest there," answered his master, "with the long arms, and some have them nearly two leagues long."

"Look, your worship," said Sancho; "what we see there are not giants but windmills, and what seem to be their arms are the sails that turned by the wind make the millstone go."

"It is easy to see," replied Don Quixote, "that thou art not used to this business of adventures; those are giants; and if thou art afraid, away with thee out of this and betake thyself to prayer while I engage them in fierce and unequal combat."

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:05 | 2673723 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Thanks!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:58 | 2673691 Brother Sebastian
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It's in the same category as Dubya's "I think we all agree, the past is over" or "I know that the human being and the fish can coexist."

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:19 | 2673808 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Makes me all reminiscent of the days where I'd watch him for the sheer comedy value.

What? He's going to finally have another press conference tomorrow?

Set the DVR!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:06 | 2673731 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

Gross is one of the few people in the mainstream that is willing to speak his mind. Good on him.

 

http://ericsprott.blogspot.ca/

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:11 | 2673757 kito
kito's picture

...what mind? where?.....i just see an empty space filled with garbage treasuries.............

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:20 | 2673814 AldousHuxley
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you want someone who speaks there mind, google Marc Faber...

 

Will the US Become a Banana Republic?

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig6/faber2.html

 

As of late November, asset markets became extremely overbought. I recommend deferring any buying and to await the shape and the severity of the expected correction. ---MArc Faber 2006

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 21:38 | 2674595 ajax
ajax's picture

 

@AldousHuxley:

When will you Americans ever ever get it into your thick fucking heads??!!:

there - a place

their - a possessive pronoun

they're - contraction of they are

 

then - a time

than - a comparative

 

to

two

too

 

must one really go on like this?????

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 23:32 | 2674815 i-dog
i-dog's picture

At least he lets us know where his sentences start ... by beginning them with a capital letter....

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:45 | 2673638 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

two snakes

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:45 | 2673640 Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

isnt it academia that led us to this point in the first place, what we constantly forget is that for something to become common knowledge someone had to test it first before that it was simply academia, the first guy who put his dick in a plug socket was an academic gaining acumen, not to do it again.

 

Now listening to academics with their untested theories about stocks and the economy, is a little bit like being stood next to our hero as he approaches the plug socket, it sounds a reasonable idea but we dont know whats gonna happen till he burns his dick off.

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:50 | 2673666 centerline
centerline's picture

With the exception that some things we just know won't end well.

Is it wrong to enjoy watching these exceptions approach the socket with dick in hand?

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:03 | 2673712 Neethgie
Neethgie's picture

no not at all unless hes gonna electrecute you too.

thats the problem bernanke and other academics are putting all our dicks in the same plug socket, we keep saying no but they continue

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:35 | 2673911 centerline
centerline's picture

+1.  Really is the case in the broader sense.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 17:43 | 2674119 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

took his course at Wharton. Classes were packed. Mr. perma bull himself. Did not see the Nobel price winners fuck up LTCM or the incredible value opportunity in div.yield stocks in 99 nor the dot com bubble.
Ivory tower is higher than Burj Kalifa

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 20:46 | 2674494 Wannabee
Wannabee's picture

@Neethgie
Me thinks GREED got us here...Simple as that.

Plenty of greed to go around to. From the stooge making 40k/yr thinking he can afford 400k house. To the stooge that created the "product" that satisfied the first stooge.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:46 | 2673641 centerline
centerline's picture

Everyone is talking thier book.  Just that some are a little closer to reality than others.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:46 | 2673643 Cursive
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Cat fight!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:47 | 2673649 banksterhater
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Seigel should be BANNED from even teaching! RETIRE ALREADY, SCHMUCK!

Play tennis with Schmuck Greenspan instead, before he croaks.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:47 | 2673650 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

Bond...his name is Bond.. 00idiot

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:58 | 2673689 kito
kito's picture

hey billy boy, still waiting for the fed to buy up all of those mortgage backed securities in some massive lsap??? bwaaahahahahhaaaaa......wait, wait, qe3 is coming, really............ha ha ha..................how many times does bernanke have to kick you in the ass mr. gross?????????......too funny...........two clueless "pundits", both stuck in a dying paradigm.................................

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:48 | 2673655 RSloane
RSloane's picture

That was about as exciting as watching socks dry.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:22 | 2673822 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'll bet that pissing your own socks was a bit of a thrill, eh?

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 17:35 | 2674101 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

at least socks have a measurable productive use, you can't say that for academia (with a straight face)

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:54 | 2673678 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

So Gross what else do you have besides platitudes to counter the charges?

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:02 | 2673709 kito
kito's picture

hes got lots of bruises on his arse from bens ass kicking...............and a fair amount of pie in his face............

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 15:56 | 2673687 Tidewater
Tidewater's picture

Say what one will about Bill Gross, he's not an uppity grad student, and Siegel is out of place dressing him down as one. But there's really no substance on either side here.

A discussion worth having would be: how long can even the "least unattractive" dividend-paying stocks continue to outpace economic growth, by how much, and why. Of course, no one who properly discounts the new reality of our flashy-crashy equities market is allowed to talk stocks on TV. And if they were, I probably still wouldn't watch.

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:04 | 2673719 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Gross- "Jeremy, I fart in your general direction"

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 21:40 | 2674601 FRBNYrCROOKS
FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

Jeremy- "Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberry!"

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 16:05 | 2673726 AcidRastaHead
AcidRastaHead's picture

"a swift kick to the credibilities" - Good one!

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 17:29 | 2674054 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Gross Sends Siegel Back To 'Ivory Tower'

 they never look comfortable in the real world or out in the fresh air

change is a comin, debt-slave students learning academic crap of zero commercial use is academia's heady euphoric peak

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 19:07 | 2674299 billsykes
billsykes's picture

I like bill gross.

Met many Ceo types, the ones with the snappy comebacks tend to be total assholes and make shitty decisions. The george hamilton bleached white teeth slick talking ceo is a Hollywood conception- the ones I have met, total dweebs running 4-7B mkt cap companies with zero original ideas and no charisma or communication skill. 

So what if he bungled a comeback- he knows 1000x more because he is not academic and has been in the market for a very long time. So long that he used a monroe calculator, http://bondtraderonline.com/ not to be confused with Kennedy monroe motorboating. 

 

Thu, 08/02/2012 - 19:18 | 2674331 kito
kito's picture

what use is knowledge of the market when THERE IS NO MARKET.............

Fri, 08/03/2012 - 01:41 | 2674965 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Yes, send Saruman Siegel back to his ivory tower and his fellow Orcs in Academia.

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