Acumen Vs Academic: Gross Sends Siegel Back To 'Ivory Tower'

Tyler Durden's picture

While Roach vs Meyer was an outstanding battle - played out face-to-face in the CNBC Squawk Box cage - the Academic vs Acumen drama playing out between Jeremy 'sluggish' Siegel and Bill 'the bond' Gross on Bloomberg TV is far more entertaining. The constant fall-back to age-old textbook definitions of mean-rerting reality and old normal 'expected' returns ran head first into the sage practitioner world of Gross's 'end of equities' call. While Siegel claims Gross 'totally misunderstands' the real-world citing his Dow 5000 call from 2002; Gross rips back with a swift kick to the credibilities with his: Siegel is "tilting at windmills and he belongs back in his Ivory Tower."


"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face" - Tyson (or perhaps KCG's CEO or Siegel and his BTFD mentaility)

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Snakeeyes's picture

Poor Jeremy. He hasn't learned to shut up.

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Fight Club!

I will take the experience (Bill G) over the academic (Jeremy) every time.

bdc63's picture

CLEARLY these guys need to go back and review the rules of fight club ....

AldousHuxley's picture


He has been a frequent guest on the business TV program Kudlow & Company on CNBC, where supply-side economics fan Lawrence Kudlow hosts. He is a supply-sider like Kudlow.and Kudlow is a dumb schmuck journalist acting like he is some big shot.



In a BusinessWeek interview in May 2000 when asked about the stock market, he replied: 7% year real returns on stocks is what I find over nearly two centuries. I don't see persuasive reasons why it should be any different from that over the intermediate run. In the short run, it could be almost anything.

yes, touting 7% return right when dotcom crash is starting....this guy doesn't know what the heck he is talking about



This guy owns 2% of WisdomTree (WETF) ETF seller which IPO'ed in 2011.

Pladizow's picture

I cant wait 200 years to only collect a 6.6% return!

AldousHuxley's picture

In last 30 years, take away 401k scam you get return no much better than boring ass bonds after inflation.

last 10 years, stocks went nowhere. only banksters made bonuses on short term bets.



Popo's picture

Sorry, but Gross came off looking like an idiot.  You can't smack down anyone with a bungled literary reference.  

Gross:  "He is pushing at windmills".  

Huh?  That means nothing. Fail.  

The expression is "tilting at windmills", Bill.    I guess he never read Cervantes.   

akak's picture

And he would probably assume (like most literarily ignorant Americans) that the "Don" in the title of "Don Quixote" is the eponymous character's first name.

AldousHuxley's picture

Sancho Panza was fat, lazy, ignorant, naive, greedy just like most Americans.

so stupid that they are easily fooled into stupid tilting of windmills by even crazy old man like Don Quixote or George Bush.


perhaps Kansas board of education is right about evolution being just a theory. retards all over the place are proving Darwin is wrong.

AldousHuxley's picture

To be fair Bill Gross isn't much better.

He plays good cop bad cop with  his co-CEO El-Erian (frequent guest on CNBC bullshit show).


El-Erian comes out during potential depression for more Fed support on CNBC.

Bill Gross comes out during potential equity booms with negative news with more formal interviews in different channels.


This is to keep money in bonds which is what pimco sells.


Also, pimco guys begged the government to BAILOUT Fannie Mae Freddie they are part of socialism for me, capitalism for you party


As far as performance of pimco's total return fund,a simple US treasury ETF beat his fund over last 5 years.,^GSPC&a=v&p=s&lang=en-US&region=US

FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

Larry Kudlow is a fart-licking faggot. He used to toss Reagan's Salad.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Gross rips back with a swift kick to the credibilities....."

So is THAT what we're calling them today?

Note to self. Protect my credibilites at all cost.

Agent P's picture

Anybody who wants to kick me in the credibilities will have to locate my wife's purse first.


nope-1004's picture

I saw the screen shot that said "Wharton Professor", which meant I didin't need to watch this because of the two featured, one puts their money where their mouth is, the other is a few months away from a full pension.

No contest.


akak's picture

I would tend to agree with you here, DoChen, but I will NEVER forgive Bill Gross for his former defenses of, and toadying and abject servility to, every move on the part of the Fed during the first couple of years of the current world financial crisis.  Bill Gross is no hero speaking truth to power, not by a long shot.

Bay of Pigs's picture

Bill Gross is a pimp. There, I said it.

FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

Have you ever read PTRAX prospectus? It's packed with the same dog dodo that sank Lehman. Shitty Bonds and CDS. I wouldn't be suprised if PIMCO blew up one day. It's all a mind trick. 


It amazes me there is hardly a world spoken about Knights meltdown or the whereabouts of John Corzine but, plenty of coverage of these little bitches whining on Bloomberg and CNBC. Not a word out of Tom Brokaw. 

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Gross was still dancing back then simply because everyone else was. Now he's put his nose into the air and he realizes that the scent of the rotting carcass has changed direction. Plus he's beginning to see an angry mob out on the horizon.

Exit stage right. He's just dancing to a new tune bro. If I may quote Margin Call......."Be first, be smarter or cheat".

Pladizow's picture

"Pushing at windmills" - I dont get it?

Someone please explain the quote!

SgtShaftoe's picture

He meant to say tilting at windmills.  It's a Don Quixote reference:

At this point they came in sight of thirty forty windmills that there are on plain, and as soon as Don Quixote saw them he said to his squire, "Fortune is arranging matters for us better than we could have shaped our desires ourselves, for look there, friend Sancho Panza, where thirty or more monstrous giants present themselves, all of whom I mean to engage in battle and slay, and with whose spoils we shall begin to make our fortunes; for this is righteous warfare, and it is God's good service to sweep so evil a breed from off the face of the earth."

"What giants?" said Sancho Panza.

"Those thou seest there," answered his master, "with the long arms, and some have them nearly two leagues long."

"Look, your worship," said Sancho; "what we see there are not giants but windmills, and what seem to be their arms are the sails that turned by the wind make the millstone go."

"It is easy to see," replied Don Quixote, "that thou art not used to this business of adventures; those are giants; and if thou art afraid, away with thee out of this and betake thyself to prayer while I engage them in fierce and unequal combat."

Brother Sebastian's picture

It's in the same category as Dubya's "I think we all agree, the past is over" or "I know that the human being and the fish can coexist."

NotApplicable's picture

Makes me all reminiscent of the days where I'd watch him for the sheer comedy value.

What? He's going to finally have another press conference tomorrow?

Set the DVR!

Silver Bug's picture

Gross is one of the few people in the mainstream that is willing to speak his mind. Good on him.

kito's picture

...what mind? where?.....i just see an empty space filled with garbage treasuries.............

AldousHuxley's picture

you want someone who speaks there mind, google Marc Faber...


Will the US Become a Banana Republic?


As of late November, asset markets became extremely overbought. I recommend deferring any buying and to await the shape and the severity of the expected correction. ---MArc Faber 2006

ajax's picture



When will you Americans ever ever get it into your thick fucking heads??!!:

there - a place

their - a possessive pronoun

they're - contraction of they are


then - a time

than - a comparative






must one really go on like this?????


i-dog's picture

At least he lets us know where his sentences start ... by beginning them with a capital letter....

wang's picture
wang (not verified) Aug 2, 2012 2:45 PM

two snakes

Neethgie's picture

isnt it academia that led us to this point in the first place, what we constantly forget is that for something to become common knowledge someone had to test it first before that it was simply academia, the first guy who put his dick in a plug socket was an academic gaining acumen, not to do it again.


Now listening to academics with their untested theories about stocks and the economy, is a little bit like being stood next to our hero as he approaches the plug socket, it sounds a reasonable idea but we dont know whats gonna happen till he burns his dick off.


centerline's picture

With the exception that some things we just know won't end well.

Is it wrong to enjoy watching these exceptions approach the socket with dick in hand?

Neethgie's picture

no not at all unless hes gonna electrecute you too.

thats the problem bernanke and other academics are putting all our dicks in the same plug socket, we keep saying no but they continue

centerline's picture

+1.  Really is the case in the broader sense.

Ratscam's picture

took his course at Wharton. Classes were packed. Mr. perma bull himself. Did not see the Nobel price winners fuck up LTCM or the incredible value opportunity in div.yield stocks in 99 nor the dot com bubble.
Ivory tower is higher than Burj Kalifa

Wannabee's picture

Me thinks GREED got us here...Simple as that.

Plenty of greed to go around to. From the stooge making 40k/yr thinking he can afford 400k house. To the stooge that created the "product" that satisfied the first stooge.

centerline's picture

Everyone is talking thier book.  Just that some are a little closer to reality than others.

banksterhater's picture

Seigel should be BANNED from even teaching! RETIRE ALREADY, SCHMUCK!

Play tennis with Schmuck Greenspan instead, before he croaks.

ziggy59's picture

Bond...his name is Bond.. 00idiot

kito's picture

hey billy boy, still waiting for the fed to buy up all of those mortgage backed securities in some massive lsap??? bwaaahahahahhaaaaa......wait, wait, qe3 is coming, really............ha ha many times does bernanke have to kick you in the ass mr. gross?????????......too funny...........two clueless "pundits", both stuck in a dying paradigm.................................

RSloane's picture

That was about as exciting as watching socks dry.

RockyRacoon's picture

I'll bet that pissing your own socks was a bit of a thrill, eh?

Zero Govt's picture

at least socks have a measurable productive use, you can't say that for academia (with a straight face)

Dr. Engali's picture

So Gross what else do you have besides platitudes to counter the charges?

kito's picture

hes got lots of bruises on his arse from bens ass kicking...............and a fair amount of pie in his face............

Tidewater's picture

Say what one will about Bill Gross, he's not an uppity grad student, and Siegel is out of place dressing him down as one. But there's really no substance on either side here.

A discussion worth having would be: how long can even the "least unattractive" dividend-paying stocks continue to outpace economic growth, by how much, and why. Of course, no one who properly discounts the new reality of our flashy-crashy equities market is allowed to talk stocks on TV. And if they were, I probably still wouldn't watch.

azzhatter's picture

Gross- "Jeremy, I fart in your general direction"

FRBNYrCROOKS's picture

Jeremy- "Your mother is a hamster and your father smells of elderberry!"

AcidRastaHead's picture

"a swift kick to the credibilities" - Good one!