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"Adolf Merkel": Presenting The Greek Gratitude For The 50% Debt Haircut
One would think that considering that their debt, or rather about 60% of it, was haircut over the past 2 days, the Greeks would be grateful to Germany who not only orchestrated this transaction over the vocal protests of her French vertically challenged counterpart, but effectively has pledged a substantial portion of German GDP to preserve not only the Greek welfare state but soon that of all the other European countries. One would be wrong.
The Mail reports:
Greeks angry at the fate of the euro are comparing the German government with the Nazis who occupied the country in the Second World War.
Newspaper cartoons have presented modern-day German officials dressed in Nazi uniform, and a street poster depicts Chancellor Angela Merkel dressed as an officer in Hitler’s regime accompanied with the words: ‘Public nuisance.’
She wears a swastika armband bearing the EU stars logo on the outside.
The backlash has been provoked by Germany’s role in driving through painful measures to stop Greece’s debt crisis from spiralling out of control
It gets worse:
Opposition parties blasted the landmark agreement, with conservatives warning it condemned the country to ‘nine more years of collapse and poverty’.
But it is the fury of ordinary Greeks which is raising eyebrows.
Greek government officials who agreed to the belt-tightening moves have been portrayed in cartoons giving the Nazi ‘Sieg Heil’ salute.
Greek finance minister Evangelos Venizelos is a regular target in the liberal daily Eleftherotypia and is often shown in cartoons making a Nazi salute.
One shows a German soldier watching over Venizelos as he barks at a Greek citizen to pay more taxes.
In another cartoon, a young Greek answers a German soldier asking why there were no names on a list of Greece’s newly formed labour reserve, saying: ‘They are empty as you exterminated the Communists, the Jews, the homosexuals, the gipsies and the crazies last time.’
And the most ominous sign is that we already are seeing animosity between ordinary people on both sides of the table, people who are part of the proverbial 99%, and who have nothing to do with the disgusting arrangements at the top whose only purpose is to enrich the already uber-rich.
And German visitors flocking to ancient tourist sites are being met with a hostile welcome from some Greeks.
If that last one isn't very concerning, re-read it enough times until it is.
And while geographical proximity between Greece and Germany may be a redeeming feature to what are already preambles to outright aggression, when will geography no longer matter: when the Greek "experiment" moves to Portugal? To Belgium? To France? Is it time to start plant more trees in the Ardennes forest?
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sick
Greece should be shown the door and told to fuck off
This should play GREAT on the streets of Berlin
No good deed goes unpunished!
See what happens when you keep giving in to socialists? They think they deserve every free lunch, and they go nuts at you if you dare take it away from them.
Oo..
Women in uniform are so.. compelling.
We need a Chairman Maobama picture
I've been comparing her to Adolf for over a year now, so this is a proud moment for me.
Whatever next, Senor Berlusconi dressed up as Mussolini?
And all just in time for the Christmas party season.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2054405/EU-summit-del-Desperate-...
Europe is holding out the begging bowl to China in an effort to keep the rescue package for the single currency alive.
In a clear sign of how the balance of world power has tipped towards the East, EU leaders hope China can be persuaded to hand over huge sums to help bail out the eurozone.
In a further embarrassment, it emerged that the one trillion euro bailout fund announced in the early hours of yesterday does not really exist.
So China will print more to buy the freshly printed from Europe, while printing more to buy the freshly printed from the US.....
Hmmmmm......something is wrong here. But what?
"Come on in China, the (nearly boiling) water is fine!" said the Frog.
China.... LOL... the savior.
Great article Tyler.
Great comments to ALL above, who ALL got a green!
One must understand the German mentality: Germans love to be loved regardless what.
Remember ALL major german political parties have voted to keep EU going and Greece getting their welfare checks forever.
IMHO, Greece deserved their bailout money and 50%-debt cut. After all, only Greece people went on general stricks and were fighting their police. It is vital to fight for your rights!
Nobody loves Germans. And that's ok. We know that too.
Ich lieb dich immer noch so sehr...
It is better to be respected (and solvent) than loved any day.
This German is OVER Love. Love is a Fiat Currency now.
why would they need to print? couldn't they just use their $1 Trillion+ USD reserves to buy Euro bonds?
well, with every USD they sell to buy EUR, they would lower the value of the remaining USD in their hands.
giant fx operations like that always create more imbalance... like when all passengers in a small ship move to the same side.
thats why every central bank likes to create its own ammunition.
they need some form of independence / counterweight
hahahas ... this is easily the funniest show on the internet ... no matter how silly is gets ... can always get sillier ... it never disappoints ... just love it ... everyday it gets better.
Didn't a young prince do this first?
Verdammt sie wurde enttarnt !!!
Merkle is quite tame compare to Hillary though.
Both rank right up there with Janet Reno.
Janet Napolitano, however, takes first place in my opinion. If I had even one tenth the artistic ability of certain other denizens of ZH I would create an image of Janet, eye sockets darkened, with official emblems on the lapels. Both would mimic the old SS motif, looking a bit like lightning bolts. On one side would be "See Something" and on the other side would be "Say Something". Gotta go...I hear someone knocking on my door.
they're all a buncha dykes
Maybe Barney Frank can lend him a riding crop. The long-stemmed rose is way too effeminant for our virile Barry.
Removed.
Adolf Merkel? Why are people constantly insulting my Fuhrer Hitler. Hitler knew how to handle the finances of Germany and got straight to the root of the financial problem and eliminating it.
Nice to see another liberty lover on ZH
And quite mad too. Think it thinks like it's fellow man?
Certainly acts like a typical Canadian, eh?
Ah yes. The good old mass murder strategy to jumpstart an economy. Makes all your troubles go away.
Pssst, you have to say Defence from E.T.s. Paul Krugman is polite, be nice and introduce politically correct "defence " - from Islamist, Chinese, Liberals and ZeroHedgers.
In the first place - defence from the Ayatollah Ron Paul ....
Mass murder could potentially provide plenty of shovel ready jobs. That'd be good for the economy.
-Adolf Hitler
Adolf didn't need gold. He had Prescott Bush and Union National Bank.
For those who want further info.
http://www.amazon.com/Conjuring-Hitler-Guido-Giacomo-Preparata/dp/074532...
Wow.
Knew how to handle Greece too. Took a couple days to conquer it and steal all their gold.
Hitler knew how to handle the finances of Germany
In finance and economics Hitler was an idiot. The German finance ministry, however, were keen at borrowing and printing.
And when Revenues were a little light, then stealing, plundering and invading were always available.
Yes, but notice size of underware.
"Oo.. Women in uniform are so.. compelling."
Har! Yeah, I'll bet she's a real "nazi" girl in bed.
The Greeks just realized that their pensions had to take the haircut not the banks. wait till this gets out they will be burning German tourists in the streets
BTW: The direct translation of the poster is "Public Danger" not merely a nuisance. I guess google translate is biased.
Greece got something on their independence day. Symbolism over substance all over again. The Greeks will be milking the cow (Merkel) until she runs out of hard working German people's milk.
Warning to Germans. Vote her out. Time to revolt and return to the deutschmark.
Depends on what Porsch their driving, Cayenne or King Tiger -- sorry, meant Leopard.
@dlmaniac et aliae
See what happens if you just keep green arrowing the wind-up blowhards like duhlmaniac who spout stupid rote ? They think they deserve the accolades, even though they don't actually know their assholes from a tea towel holder, and they'll go nutz if you present them with reality and try to take away their self delusions:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/may/27/debt-deficit-oecd-countries-data
I want to know what it is going to take to trigger a credit event for CDS on US bonds
Greece should just pull an Iceland
"I want to know what it is going to take to trigger a credit event for CDS on US bonds."
We have passed through the looking glass. Now there are no defaults, no triggers, no consequences. The rules of the game clearly state -- in invisible ink -- that the rules may change at any moment to suit the needs of the plutocratic cartel.
Onward through the fog!
'Now there are no defaults, no triggers, no consequences. The rules of the game clearly state -- in invisible ink -- that the rules may change at any moment to suit the needs of the plutocratic cartel.'
The only way to win is not to play.
hey, G_F!
pulling an iceland is very probably the best thing to do, but the dynamics are so different b/c iceland wasn't in the EU
the banksters have done some pretty advanced work in and around greece, it seems, right from the time greece joined the euro in 2001
this is dated today: Sarkozy said Greece should have not joined the Euro in 2001: “it was not ready” — MercoPress
friday afternoon humor, BiCheZ!
if the US fails on its debt, the pope's new bank will bail out the world and charge it to The Trinity
trust me!
I always appreciate the P_Irate's POV. You're dead right slewie: an outright Greek default would rip out the skeevy little hearts of sociopathic banksters and their pocketed elites, right smartly too.
Actually, the beginning of this thread gives a nice impression of how gullible the majority of ZHers are, if only you appeal to their obsessions...... dozens of people getting 40+ votes, who have a trackrecord of spewing desinformation...... with no second thought at all what this may mean, when all the regular sockpuppets come out in force and agree with you....
Just a minority didn't blindly fall for it, when the right buttons are pushed by the tylers and sockpuppets together.
So, as for that myth of the majority of ZHers being so much more clever? Well, some are - as for the rest: They depend on the tylers for guidance.
there is much iron in tyler's words of guidance
Sure, there is most of the time, i fully agree. Else, i wouldn't be reading ZH so often.
Still - i may be a little utopic here..... i would have thought that a good "mentor" ought to be used, to oneself become a more independent and skilled thinker - instead of the opposite: oneself just becoming the sheep of a better leader. Sure, one may end up doing the right thing more often - but this then will simply be because of the choosen leader, not because of one's own skills.
To give a counterexample: There are 2 people who grew very close to me, and i to them. We by now are so aligned, that one can just start describing an idea, and the others can quickly complete the rest. However, we never trust each others skills blindly - we constantly check each others thoughts, and this way not only synergetically improve, but also avoid a lot of mistakes - because whenever one comes up with an idea, there will be three verifying it.
greatest.movie.ever.
He's Full Metal Comanche
Yeah, exactly. Germany gave them more time to dabble in the failed keynesian experiment without being forced to do the TRUE austerity measures, and this is the reponse.
Doesn't matter. Austerity is coming, regardless. This is all about pissing off as many people as possible in order to divert attention, aka Divide-and-Conquer 101.
After all, how can you create a world war without angering all 'sides' first?
Most unfortunately, correct. Over the last few years we all first talked about BKs and equities ... then we talked about money and financial banditry ... than we talked of riots and growing police states ... then we talked about defaults and overthrows ... then we talked about currency wars ... and then trade war .... and now everyone realizes WWIII is a distinct possibility ... and famine ... and mass murder ... and
When everyone is angry, desperate, afraid, hungry, dissappointed, disillusioned and divided ... it can all keep unfolding.
thanks, you two just cured my hiccups: I'll just go grab a fresh pair of underwear and I'll be right back.
"Courage my friend(s), it's not too late to make the world a better place."-T Douglas
And we heard green shoots and better than expected... then we heard easing and financial support... then we heard end of recession and summer of recovery... the we heard national security and death of enemies... then we heard growth of democracy and it helps our exports... then we heard made in america and going green... and now everyone realizes its a global economy and we're all intertwined... and china's still growing... and you can take a space flight... and
When everyone is angry, desperate, afraid, hungry, disillusioned and divided... it can get better if we are positive, patient, and remember to vote the party line.
Weird how it's opposite.
Ok, if things are so good, you just try buying a suit that can fit an iPhone properly into it's inside pocket!
you cant! ... see! ... what'd I say!? ... world is coming to an end, right? ... am I right? ... LOL
Here is how the conversation went....
Merkel to Papandreou : You Greeks get your shit together!
Papandreou to Merkel : "What the fuck do you mean?"
Merkel: Yes you know, the money thing - get with the program
Papandreou : "Fuck your program you started it!"
Merkel: We did not
Papandreou: "yes you did you invaded Poland, ask them how that went ...now Fuck off!"
Funny - Greeks just slit their own throats and this is supposed to show Germans "good deeds". W/ Greek pensions holding about 30% of Greek debt...now taking a 50% haircut means these plans are so underfunded as to be a complete joke. But of course the ECB Greek debt takes no haircut. And ECB and sovereigns will take care of their banks...but Greece is being encouraged to destroy itself on the way up and now on the way down.
Greek citizens should be very angry at those who played them and at themselves for fogetting that democracy only works w/ involvement and shared sacrifice (not that I give a fuck)...and American citizens should take a glimpse at their likely future. The parallels are all there (uncompetitive economy w/ huge trade imbalance, prohibitive wages, unfundable liabilities, massive debt to GDP, dysfunctional gov only representing the lobbyists and greatest among us, blah blah)...primary difference is the ability to print worth less and less fiat. We will use this amazing tool as a weapon to destroy ourselves and the world economy.
Pension funds are not underfunded.
They overpromised.
Aligning the funds with the promises is not possible. It is now time to reset the promises to reality.
Sorry, you can't retire at 50, you can't inflate your earnings in the last year before retirement so that retirement pays more than working... the paradigm must change.
The politicians/unions/sheeple/etc have now been exposed for their robbery and now must pay the price. Haircuts all around!
Average greek retirement age: 62, BEFORE the recent cuts.
Go fuck yourself, slavedriver.
And the Germans slave away until 65 (soon to be 67), just so the greeks can retire earlier.
Which is just another reason why it is best for everyone (except international bankers) if the Greeks just pull an Iceland. (Upon reflection, that might be bad for average Germans: Greece defaults and leaves the Euro, Euro appreciates against it's fiaty peers like a house on fire, German exports become prohibitively expensive to shrinking economies... Same thing happens if Germany leaves the Euro and reintroduces the Mark; Just My Humble Conjecture)
Oh, and if you read on further, prepare to be shown up; you and all the other ignorants who gave you a green triangle for being dead wrong.
Thanks for coming out.
You know, everyone keeps on about accepting the 'mark' of the beast and all that concerning the end times....hmmm... where's there's smoke as they say. I'm German by the way so I am being non-chalant here, not inferring my country is beastly, just adding fun to this wildfire that's burning.
Oh, wow, i am SO happy to have have my retirement age moved higher BECAUSE OF THE EURO, that i now instead of blaming the EMU, i resort to being ENVIOUS that this bullshit hasn't been done to the full extend to greeks.
Wow, now i feel soo much better, you fucking organic piece of trash. Envy makes my life that much better, that i can completely forget about what has been done to me, everyone around me, for which purposes it has been done (and if you believe that it has been done for greeks, as opposed to for megabanks and multinational megacorps (produce cheap, sell expensive), then you are beyond retarded - oh wait, you did already - nevermind). Because, you know - all that is irrelevant, because - there is someone who doesn't have it as bad as me - so that makes that guy the evil one, and i'm just fine! Because - you know, i'm a braindead egomaniac - no one may have it relatively better than me - if he does, he's evil and deserves to be put below me!
So folks, everybody suffer more! Because: The more pain, the better you are! You only become worthy via suffering. And those who refuse to suffer, just aren't worth shit - they must be made to suffer more. Get with the times - collective selfsacrifice and infighting for the sake of the kleptocracy. Sadomasochism as an ideology!
*
Yeah, people should just work until they can't and then die quickly so that the machine can just keep on chugging along on the educated fodder coming out of the schools, colleges and University...
Imagine the nerve of someone thinking that working for 35-50 years is enough and wanting to have a little downtime before taking the dirt nap!
And worse, if all workers could retire at a reasonable age - say 55-62 years of age - and could then have sufficient money to live, health to be vital and time to volunteer in the political process through political positions or challenging the wrongs perpetrated by the kleptocrats, THIS would be the worst (for the controllers) case.
Now there are definitely some pension reforms which should be made - in my opinion there should be NO pensions exceeding 70% income UNLESS purchase protection is not part of the pension contract. If hyperinflation arises, pensions should rise to meet the need. Also, set up a reward system for those who rat out thieves sucking off of disability programs etc. Catch a "disabled" person in hard physical labor or doing something he/she should not be able to do - get a monetary reward. The cheater loses benefits and pays back the ill-gotten gains - and does some jail time as well.
Well, my issues with people complaining about retirement and pensions are the following:
- I agree that the current system isn't a good idea. But NOT because people are getting too much, but because they get TOO LITTLE, compared to the amount they paid in, REAL inflation adjusted (OUCH!)... and they are at the whim of the gov. Short version: Pensions should simply be gold.
- Current pension cuts however have nothing to do with that. What they have to do with instead is:
- Purpose #1: The gov has wasted most of the money already. It isn't even capable anymore in the foreseable future, of paying out, what people paid in - NOT real inflation adjusted! (WTF?). Also, there aren't enough jobs anyways, so it also doesn't really matter how long people work before retirement. However, unemployment benefits (especially after they have been cut over and over to barebone), are cheaper than paying out pensions. And if people are stupid enough to actually work as long as demanded, naively being ignorant of inflation and future cuts, well.... maybe they'll just drop dead and nothing needs to be paid out.
- Purpose #2: More wage pressure downwards on the job market == more profits for multinational corporations (why multinational? Because national corps would sooner or later - absence gov sponsering - see buying power dry up. Multinationals on the other hand, can produce in one nation, sell in another - and thus avoid the wage <-> purchasing power feedbackloop).
- Purpose #3: Our bankster masters have again spend all their stuff on crack, bitches and icecream.... so, we just need to get cash SOMEWAY ANYWHERE..... ELSE.
<----Myths-Busted
<--- Duped Pricks
Lets look at some FACTS
" According to Eurostat, Greek workers work on average longer hours than the rest of Europeans. They work a 42-hour week, while the average working week in the 27 member states of the EU is 40.3 hours and within in the “Eurozone” it is 40 hours. So that is myth number one dispelled."
" What about the age of retirement and pension levels? If we were to believe the...media Greeks live in a kind of workers’ paradise, where they can all retire early and nice big pensions. Again, facts and figures are stubborn things and they give a completely different picture. The average age of retirement in Greece is 61.4 years, a little higher than the European average of 61.1 years."
"And what about these fat Greek pensions? According to the GSEE Labour Institution, the average pension in Greece is 750 euros per months [£650 pounds or US$990], while in Spain this figure reaches 950 euros, in Ireland 1700 euros, in Belgium 2800 euros and in the Netherlands 3200 euros. Moreover, this figure was calculated before the implementation of the new government measures, which increase the age of retirement from 65 to 67 years while at the same time cutting pensions by 30 to 50%."
"Furthermore, according to the annual report of the joint GSEE-ADEDY trade union confederations on the economy and employment levels in 2009, of the current four and a half million labour force, more than a million work without any social security or other forms of legal protection. According to the report of the Commission for Social Security, established by the Greek Ministry of Labour, this figure reaches 30% of the overall workforce, while in the rest of the EU the percentage of workers in these conditions are only between 5 and 10% of the total."
"Instead of civil servants’ wages going up in recent years, we have seen the opposite phenomenon. As a result of the constant cuts carried out since 1990, according to an ADEDY report [the civil servants trade union confederation], the total real income of civil servants has fallen by 30%. During recent years, governments have preferred to grant “allowances” to civil servants instead of real wage increases. These allowances have neither been included in the annual pay rises nor are they taken into account when calculating pension levels upon retirement."
The banksters and their politicians have now been exposed for their robbery; now they must pay the price.
I'm sick and tired of all you Little Miss Informations out there flashing us your fake tits and pretending that they're all natural
GFY's
Yeah, that's right: little red triangles is all you've got, pricks.
BS. After all that hard work, there are less Greeks making more than $100K in the entire country then there are people in my small town in NJ making more than $100K.
If they are working so hard, what the hell are they producing? They don't even produce enough food for themselves, they import food. I can't think of a single product I have ever purchased that was made in Greece. They have some tourism - all generated by accident of climate and some things done thousands of years ago by people that probably have little or no genetic relationship to present day Greeks.
Most of them 'work' for the government - doing nothing.
Totally agree about government workers. It is however the politicians who created entitlement society by buying their votes paid by the productive Greeks.
Obama and the so called progressives are on their way to produce an even larger entitlement society. He knows the drill.
I know from my own experience in Greece that the Greeks can often be incredibly lazy mofos. We could trust your unsourced rant, or Michael Lewis' very fine article in Vanity Fair.
The Greeks are totally fucked.
They’re not just a little fucked, like your car just got towed or you got drunk and accidentally banged a Ladyboy … No Greece is fucked big time, like waking up in a bathtub full of ice and your own blood in Bangkok and realizing your kidneys are already on the next flight to Vietnam.
It amazes me that people are still debating whether or not Greece will default. For the rest of us non-retards, it is a foregone conclusion. The real question is when they will default and how many other European countries they will take down with them. Clearly if the few solvent countries that are left in Western Europe (read: Germany) keep bailing out the incompetent losers like Greece they too will go bankrupt. With estimates reaching as high as $250,000 of public debt per working adult ($1.2 trillion total) and rising, even school children should be able to understand that in a small country of only 11 million people, that debt level will be absolutely insurmountable.
http://www.singledudetravel.com/2011/07/greece-greed-graft-and-the-grim-reaper/
That Bangkok tale is going to give me nightmares, thanks a lot.
It amazes me that anyone doubts Greece will default too, though it appears that there exists international financial chicanery that knows no limits. Greece should just go the Icelandic route and get it over with.
"Clearly if the few solvent countries that are left in Western Europe (read: Germany)"
Erm, they didn't even make the top four on this list
And as long as we're sharing anecdotes and making sweeping generalisations based on them: I have yet to experience a country where I haven't met at least a few lazy fucks. Perhaps skyrocketing obesity rates might provide a clearer picture?
http://www.singledudetravel.com/2011/07/fat-people-the-aids-of-america/
Everything rings true except the Bangkok tail which has been related to Bangkok, Shanghai and other parts unknown, but never verified.
BS indeud.
Tell you what, first you should try actually reading my comment, and then respond to it if you can find any errors in the facts it outlines. Otherwise please don't waste anymore of my time with your MSM induced claptrap.
They don't do that - that group of 8 people who suffer from braindamage and/or denial of reality and/or are paid sockpuppets.... simply refuse to accept, and even downvote posts, that do nothing else than post cold hard stats.
But you know - FUCK THEM! REPOST!
Work = sit in air conditioned government office playing Farmville.
Yeah, that's right, that's it, that's all you've got; nothing.
i thought he might have missed yer point...
hahaha! Touche. I was attacking his "BS." and what followed the apple and oranges comparison.
Olives, olive oil and feta cheese are all I ever see from Greece.
Don't forget Ouzo!
And anal sex, of course.
What the hell pleasure does it give to people to recite-- olives, feta... and all the other garbage that make up the extent of your knowledge about Greek stereotypes? I can't imagine writing garbage like that about a country I don't live in. What do you get from that? You're probably the same people who are all up in arms that some Greek made a poster of Angela as Hitler. Too many weirdos on this site.
Regarding production, Greece has not been managed well by its government. As I understand it, its entry into the EU led to the death of its agricultural production (or at least it was around this time that it started importing more, even though it used to produce almost all the food to satisfy its needs). If any of you (and I'm picking on your comment because it is the last in the string starting with olives or something and ending with a/s-- how predictable!) tasted fruits and vegetables from Greece you would know they are the best in the world. The fish is excellent as well. Greece has potential, but they just have to pick the right government.
You failed to mension the public holidays in other countries especialy Italy and Spain being twice as many and the holiday bridging that they do when holidays are separated by 3 or fewer days, which happen several times per year.
In a way, Greek tax avoidance is a way of sending a message to the gov. that their taxes are being misappropriated. American's talk but do not act bitczzes.
Ya Going, Americans are fat lazy pigs now as well! Thanks for forty years of being number one producers suckas! The one constant, class warfare is attempted slavery. The irony of Obama as POTUS is frigging hillarious. I have to admit it, the script now is making me fall out of my chair in maniacle laughter. Man are we going to learn to pyschologically screen before letting people run for office of any kind.
m
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obama was psychologically screened by bankers some years ago and was found particularly suitable as career puppet!
they have it easy: screening for a puppet is easy..
but recognizing a true righteous person is many times more difficult.
its always easier to be evil than to be good... that is the intrinsic difficulty of the game
Somethings a little smelly or massaged in your numbers; or Greece would be the poster child of fiscal prudence. What are you hiding ?
Maybe they "put in" 42 hours, but they aren't working ?
And what are Greek pensions vs. Greek per capita incomes ?
If you get a chance, check out the 1984 Greek movie "Loafing and Camoflage". It is in Greek, but can be obtained with English subtitles.
Answer your own fricking questions, if you think they have any merit. (They don't)
What exactly could I be 'hiding'? I have invited all to do their own research, to check my information; do you really need someone to hold your hand?
You're just casting unfounded aspersions and hoping they'll stick. What are you massaging/concealing? On second thought, don't answer that.
Here's a better answer: Entitlements got nothing to do with it. Lazyness got nothing to do with it. Pensions got nothing to do with it.
Here is what's got to do with it:
Pushers and junkies.
Oh wait, i guess now some retard will reinterprete "pushers" with the altruistic and powerful, and the "junkies" with the egoistic, weak and lazy.
Here, let me rephrase it for your braindamaged retards:
Country A sells workforce below the cost needed to sustain the workforce, and pays the difference via entitlements.
Country B now cannot compete with prices of country A.
Country A PAYS country B to buy their wares.... via debt.
Country B accumulates more and more debt that cannot be repaid, and its industrial complex gets wiped out.
Country A lends more and more capital that it will not get back (its balance sheet is a LIE!), and its domestic market gets wiped out.
Both countries in this mutual parasitary relationship slowly destroy themselves together.
Big corps and big banks make big profits! As long as the bill doesn't come home.
Bill arrives...... STHF
So, i'm sorry - as much as it may hurt the egomaniac hearts of the many sadists around here.... your obsessions really just mean shit - it really is just ponzi, and the only relevance of your slavedriver fantasies, are that you keep yourself impotent in the big picture, and by agitating the lower and lower middleclass help keeping them impotent in the big picture - via distraction.
So, to all those retards who upvoted the regular sockpuppets... you are part of the problem.... and the sooner you at first get kicked in the nuts together with the banksters and crony capitalists, and then get shown the door, the better. And with better.... i ironically mean also for you - or at least your business, even if you're too incompetent to grasp the simple basic school maths of the "why" (after all, i wonder how anyone managed to build up a business, without understanding that giving goods away for free, does not create a profit, and that in the case of jobs, if in the equation A / B, if you increase B, the result does not increase, but DECREASE. Then again, looking at economics, it appears that total incompetence isn't that rare after all...).
(...continuing w/ the better answer theme...)
would it be more ironic if you were playing a game designed by sadists, for masochists?
Frankly, in my opinion, even if the Greep pensions drop to 1% of original value, that is 1% more than any pension I hope to have.
Therein lies a big problem, those who have and those who have none...
Barely worked, rarely paid taxes, retired much earlier than anyone else in the world.
Now their pensions are trashed because they bought their own bonds.
That's some delicious irony.
if there was even a taint of truth to it mb
Think of California state workers. Do you see any semblance there?
Yes but California state workers are not being paid by Texas yet.
Uh, the operative word in your post is "yet".
Wait until Chicago Jesus beats that flip-flopping phony from Massachussetts into the effing ground next year and Jerry Brown comes to Obama and his bankster masters for a bailout.
Obama will make sure that Texas pays California, one way or another.
Yes and that will easily pass Congress because almost every state will be getting bailed out.
California pays out more than it receives. Texas is a net welfare state (big one)
Recent article:
Nurse Making $269,810 Demonstrates California’s Overtime Bingehttp://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-10-26/nurse-making-269-810-demonst...
Among those who got large payouts are a prison doctor who cashed out more than $590,000 of vacation time when he retired.
I wonder if that $590,000 was used in determining his pension?
Such wages for a nurse must make the 30,000 teachers that were recently fired a bit peeved.
sorry, I have no idea how I double post.
Have you ever seen a grateful welfare or entitlement recipient? Never. It's always not enough.
J.K. Rowling
SHE'S still on welfare?!?
Greedy bitch!
Haven't you heard? Now she goes out of her way to increase her tax load; it's almost as if Gov't made a good investment. Crediting the opportunity provided to her by the dole, apparently Rowling went on to write a series of wildly successful books about magical events that will never happen. Kind of like an 'Ayn Rand inversion'; except in AR's case she remained firmly attached to the public teat until she died (I guess her fantasies about unlikely magical events weren't quite as popular/lucrative; though I for one certainly found her 'works' just about as entertaining as Rowling's, albeit a touch less grounded in reality).
Irony, oh you are such a sweet mistress.
Let's face it, the Greeks are envious of the Germans, as are the rest of the EU.
And on a psychological basis, human beings tend to project blame, are allergic to taking responsibility for their actions. It is not easy for the Greek people to acknowledge that they are less organized and industrious than other cultures. As individuals they are outstanding (like the Italians), but on a tribal level they possess relatively less discipline, unity, and the capacity to defer gratification. Failure is humiliating.
Besides, Athens should blame Il Duce for the 1941 invasion. Hitler had bigger fish to fry to the north, but Mussolini decided to invade Greece and got his tit in a wringer.
look up, look waaaaay up to "Myth-Busted" and you just might learn something. The Greek citizenry are certainly not 'projecting' any blame; the mark in a con job is not the perp.
The Greeks have their own government to blame. Like everywhere else, though, the Greek PTB would prefer the blame was laid elsewhere.
You can't blame the German government trying to get the best deal for their people; you can blame the Greek government for selling theirs down the river.
Ya never know, if Mussolini stood home Hitler may have taken Moscow. That 4 week delay cost.
"Adjutant: "Herr general, the italians have decided to enter the war!"
German general(thoughtfully): "Hmm... send 2 divisions to the italian border."
Adjutant: "No, you got me wrong, they are on our side."
General:" Damn, order to send 10 divisions to the italian border..."
" It is not easy for the Greek people to acknowledge that they are less organized and industrious than other cultures."
Yeah, industriousness is the be-all and end-all of human existence isn't it?
God forbid that at some point ART again enters into human life here!
Just a guess but, I would bet that we would be less likely to ART ourselves out of a planet and bio system than we are apparently close to doing so industrially.
Hmmm...?
I like you Nostra; so you must be used to being subjected to a lot of red ink from the resident ZH Mankiw zealots.
Thanks for the LIKE GoinFawr. But you should know that there is a reason dumbass is part of the user name I selected.
I am fairly clueless as to economics and have no formal education in it. I had to go to wikipedia after your mention of Mankiw...
Attempting to determine a trend in the socio-political-economic activities of our time brings me to places like ZH.
My posts are generally a response to the ugliness and/or short-sightedness that I perceive in other posts. Or a recognition of humor and wit. I wish to remind all of us that we are much more alike than the artificial divisiveness employed through language, culture and beliefs which tend to keep us separated and bewildered make us seem to be.
Cheers!
Fine but should Dutch and Germans pay for Greeks to make art?
After all, the Dutch are much better at art as well. It would make more sense for the Greeks to pay the Dutch to produce art for them if they could use the freed up labor to produce something else.
All you get from the Dutch is a French nose.
"And keep your eye open for a good ear." -Ringo Starr
Apparently slewie was absolutely correct, you have missed the point.
Don't worry about that 'whooshing' sound, I'm sure you'll get used to it eventually.
Ayn Rand
Beat me to it!
As long as there is so much drama attached to the Euro, the petrodollar hegemony won't be threatened. Remember when everyone was threatening to stop the music on the recycling petrodollar back in 00-05?
Not so much anymore. I wonder if Obama realizes how lucky he is?
Every day he wakes up in the White House..,.
must be a trip to get the front cabin on AF1
I'm sure, in your eyes, he should be in the back cabin?
Take it to 30,000 ft and throw him out.
He'll do some skydiving and land into the GS Antonov . Another GS PR Stunt.
No. You are not wise and nor do you understand American law. Courageous and bright yes, wise definately not.
Advocating violence towards the person of our chiefmost puppet is a definite legal no-no.
What would be the point, anyway? The sheep would just elect another one the following day, and you'd have blood on your hands.
Now... taking the plane to 30,000 feet and doing a countrywide air-drop of The Creature from Jekyll Island and Ron Paul's End the Fed would be a much more constructive use of your time and jet fuel.
He should be serving drinks and handing out headphones.
In other words...community organizing...lol.
Now you're on to something.
Quite the fait accompli for the Fed shysters.
You could almost suspect that it was orchestrated that way. /sarc
Berliners should go again and invade Greece. Let the Greek find out, if somebody is going to stand up for them. Retarded liars.
In real world terms half of that shishkebab nation belongs in to jail.
That's a choice avatar...
More than half, Should let Turkey have them again
I for one hope you are right. Maybe the German sheeple will finally get it into their heads, no matter what they do....they will always be nazis. It disgusts me to see, once again this unfair display of nazi association.
Coming from the Greek though hurts even more so....considering they cooked the books to get into the EU and then again to get into the EMU.
Greece should rot in hell!!!
Greek books cooked by Goldman Sux, FYI ...
Predatory lending works, but there is a new quality - pump the money in the greek shithouse to rob Germany, over french puss... ehm, proxies ... ( shihouses of SocGen, BNP Parisbus & Credit Agricole ).Take their RE as collateral when they blow up.
U want to screw Americans - lend money to peones and grab the savings of everyone,
-you want to screw Europeans - pump money to Greece and Ireland. Be sure to find some nice Democrat-Alike ( Gerhard Schröder ), advised by a swiss Jerk, to pull off the stunt before the sheeple gets a hint .... pack all the EU Goverments with Goldmanites.
The System Works.
The Germans get to feel like Americans now. Hand an ally a pile of money to solve a problem. Ally spits in their face.
Hand an ally a pile of money to solve a problem. Ally spits in their face
Well said
A WORD !!!
I too would probably spit in the face of anyone who tried to hand me a sum of money that everyone knew full well there was no way I could ever pay back. Especially if it was offered with the intent to enslave me, my family, and all of my countrymen for generations to come. Without even the decency to allow me the privilege of defaulting on the odious debt already being imposed on me and mine by liars, cheats and frauds that that same face had hired to do the job. And you'd have the gall to expect me to be grateful for that?
Oh wait, I think I just described most South American (amongst a litany of others)/US relations of the past couple of centuries. So I guess, in light of that, I can understand your perspective, or at least your conditioning.
You, like so many, have been fooled into blaming the raped for accepting a drink loaded with roofies from the rapist. "She was asking for it..."
Makes me ill.
Sorry but have you not been reading the news? Greece is defaulting on at least 50% of their debt. I dont know what else you want. Greece defaults and Germany props up Greece's welfare state.
Greece could always leave the Euro, but would need a full default. Becasue after they devalued the drachma to nothing, they would never be able to pay back their debt denominated in Euros.
Apology accepted, I didn't realize it was so difficult for you. Have you not been reading my comments? I've been saying, quite clearly I think, that Greece should fully default on its onerous debt and leave the Euro.
Reading AND comprehending... None of this is as simple as a "friend does favor, ally then spit." Financial aid, loans to industrialize, etc. are never gifted. And when these LOANS are made, debt forgiveness comes with conditions, and is already written into the script. Often it is preferred by the 'friendly institution.' Its these conditions that make the loan, and the inevitable default, acceptable to those gratious enough to grant the loan in the first place. These include all kinds of things... like privatizing things like........., and placing trade restrictions on things like........... political pressures for.......... (left for your own research).
Start studying this phenomenon, because its as old as empire.
I think this is what Greece should be hoping for.
The best day in an inmate's life is when he's shown the door.
A lot of inmates do stupid shit to remain incarcerated for fear of maintaining in the real world, whatever real is....