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Aircraft Carrier Enterprise Sets Off On Final Journey - Direction Iran
Today at noon Eastern, the storied aircraft carrier Enterprise, aka CVN-65, left its home port of Naval Station Norfolk one final time for its final voyage with a heading: Arabian Sea, aka Iran. There in a week it will join CVN 72 Lincoln and CVN 70 Vinson, as well as LHD 8 Makin Island, all of which are supporting any potential escalation of "hostilities" in the Persian Gulf region. As a reminder, back in January we learned that the Enterprise's final voyage will be in proximity to Iran, and in the meantime, the aircraft carrier held extended drills off the Florida coast to attack a "faux theocracy" consisting of fundamentalist "Shahida" states. Why the Arabian Sea in about 7-10 days will be home to not two but three aircraft carriers and a big deck amphibious warfare ship is very much an open question, although we may have some thoughts.
More:
Thousands of sailors will deploy today from Norfolk on the USS Enterprise for the last time on Sunday.
Nearly 5,500 Sailors aboard the ships of the Enterprise Carrier Strike Group (ENT CSG) are scheduled to deploy from Naval Stations Norfolk and Mayport, Fla., March 9, 11 and 12, to support operations with the U.S. Navys 5th and 6th Fleets.
The aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN 65), commanded by Capt. William C. Hamilton Jr., will depart from Naval Station Norfolk for the ships 22nd and final deployment March 11.
CVN 65 will not be alone:
After the Enterprise leaves Sunday, three Norfolk-based guided-missile destroyers will head out Monday — the USS Porter, USS Nitze and USS James E. Williams.
The strike group is commanded by Rear Adm. Ted Carter Jr.
Carrier Air Wing 1, based at Naval Air Station Oceana in Virginia Beach, will be embarked aboard the Enterprise.
The Enterprise was launched September 24, 1960, by Newport News Shipbuilding and Drydock Co. and commissioned November 25, 1961.
Its record of high-profile service began with the Cuban Missile Crisis in 1962. Since then, it has served in countless missions around the world.
...
The aircraft squadrons of CVW 1 embarked aboard Enterprise are: Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 11 Red Rippers, VFA 136 Knighthawks, VFA 211 Fighting Checkmates, Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 251 Thunderbolts, Carrier Airborne Early Warning Squadron (VAW) 123 Screwtops, Carrier Tactical Electronic Warfare Squadron (VAQ) 137 Rooks, Fleet Logistics Support Squadron (VRC) 40 Rawhides, and Helicopter Anti-submarine Squadron (HSL) 11 Dragon Slayers.
Some pictures released minutes ago from Enterprise's final deployment:
Finally, this is how congested the Arabian Sea looks right about now, where two carriers and one assault ship are currently located, via Stratfor.
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dolt much?
stay away from hannity moron, he's not your hero.
oh, and this for IQ or not IQ
You may be an imbecile if you deny the muzzie treats their women as sub human.
The Pakistani slaves in Dubai get paid more in Dubai then when they do the exact same job in Pakistan. For example a Pakistani in Dubai gets paid more to work as an accnt manager in Dubai than if he was an account manager in Pakistan. And he doesn't have to pay tax on his income. Further, the standard of living is much better there than in Pakistan. I know this, because I have a family member who actually experience this.
That is the case in all arab countries. They indenture themselves because they will do better financially then if they stay and work in whatever shithole monarchy or socialist country they come from.
whatever shithole monarchy or socialist country they come from.
[Translation:whatever ex-British colony they come from.]
Arguably large stretches of the arab middle east are so backward precisely where the europeans never colonized.
To define a little better what we mean by colonizing: India is a fine example of a country colononized by the british for two solid centuries. They have a parlementary democracy there. The common language is English. Not the best run shop on the planet but a damn site better than ANY arab country. A lot of arab places(not gonna say countries because you couldn't really, back then) touched by the british empire were adminstered by proxy for pretty short stretches of time. The French and Italians had there go colonizing north african arab shitholes and I think we can call those unsuccessful, but look at just about ANY former French colony or current overseas French territory. Most of them suck ass to live in. A lot of the current or former british ones have done admirably well, ranking way up the scale of nonshittiness as places to live and work.
It could be argued that Israel and Saudi Arabia are ex-British colonies as well...as for India, it was the Brits primary laboratory for 'divide and conquer...just ask Pakistan....
Nuh Uh. Saudi Arabia, Dubai and Bahrain are fucking sweet, very high quality of life and were never colonized. Algeria is a shit hole mostly and was colonized for almost a century,compare and contrast with morocco and its night and day, both colonized by the FrenchOman wasn;t colonized but is for some strange reaosn very very quiet.
Lets have a similar look at Indochina Vietnam, Thailand Burma and Bangladesh. Vietnam was heavily colonized by the french and then fought a war for decades against everyone, it is now doing well, Thailand was never colonized and formed a buffer between British and french Indo-China. It is also doing very well. Burma was also colonized by the British as was Bangladesh. they are both Fucked right now, Bangladesh more so. Bangladesh lost a cool half a million of its population during the pakistani invasion which some say was ordered by Kissenger http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_atrocities.
You are a weak-ass apologist for colonialism who knows very little about history or international relations. There are so many ways a country can go depending on its people their choices and the effort they put into it. I'll admit that the British left a good framework for the Indians to work in as they did in Malaysia but take a good look at most of Central Africa,Yemen Pakistan and Palestine and you will see some serious fuck ups. Two nucleaur wars ready to kick off as a legacy. I LIVE in a former French territory its pretty good as far as things go. And yes they do have pretend Democracy but do you really think our fucking REDvsBLUE situation is any different?
India is real hit and miss as you would expect from an entire SUBCONTINENT populated by 1 BILLION people. I'm sure you've been all over the fucking place and met everyone but they also have problems....
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2010-12-29/india/28661327_1_...
TBT you really got to stop championing places where they cut peoples dicks off in the name of Democracy people are going to think your a eunuch. Seriously man my dick is my property, the state comes and inteferes with it i consider it a serious breach of my rights. You and your people are talking about Property Rights while people are getting their nut sacks cut open? You crazy.....
Right right, vietnam is "doing well".
Saudi, Bahrain, Dubai are living on borrowed time, bootstrapped as they were entirely by foreign technology and foreign demand for petroleum products they happened to have under their feet and/or their neighbors feet. Saudi Arabia in particular is very very hosed, thanks to their wahabbist indoctrination system. The people there, very largell have no knowledge or skills of interest to foreigners. They are crude oil welfare kings and queens, by and large. "Sweet!"
The Brits put those Wahabbist hillbillies in charge to keep the population under control through nepotism and atavism and to keep the region hamstrung and inflamed by religious and cultural extremism.
It's not just oil they're pulling out of the ground and refining for distribution. KSA was a bad choice, it's a prime example of the legacy of British colonial hatred and destruction...it's a hate (control) engine by design...
wow.
you must be prior service.
you sir, are an idiot of the highest order.
:0
yes, i am that guy that slings names like the immature scripty, or whatever,
but this does not change the fact that you are an oxygen thief.
you probably vote....american'T duty, yadda....
go boil an egg, assjack
......apologies maghreb, this is intended to point at IQ or not IQ's silly attempts at playing 'blog'
You've obviously never been to one. Don't believe what you read in the NYT.
Compare the French Caribbean islands to some of the shitholes left by the British. Compare the French Pacific islands to the shitholes left by the British, Germans and Americans. FFS. Hong Kong was almost pure free-market capitalist *despite* the British.
T, most here think conquest is good if you enslave the people and tell them they are part of the collective which will one day make all equal and wonderful. If you go in to a country and build a road or infrastructure you are an oppressor.
The Spanish and Portugese had the whole southern half of the western hemishphere, and did nothing but exploit people and resources. They left nothing but poverty and disfunction.
Up north the Brits(later of course, US) built cities and infrastructure and eventually created the most prosperous civilization known to mankind.
which is condemned by the educated and open minded majority that frequents this site?
Oh you'd be talking about the Philippines there also? More Filipinos in the Middle East, inc Israel than any of those "ex-British colonies" you speak of. My understanding is that the Philippines was the start of US empire building efforts. The whole legal and political system there certainly mimics the good ol' USA!
Is it? Can't say I've ever been. Based on what I've read it sounds like a sanitized wannabe Disneyland-meets-Singapore but with less families and more rich douchebags. Oh, and more artificial islands. They really love artificial islands.
I have done some reading on the Big E.
8 Reactors and all of them cannot be used for full speed.... I am sure they tried.
However... that many reactors that survive shipboard damage means steam and power for damage control and that means everything to a ship fighting in war.
I have begun to advocate smaller Carriers with maybe 24 aircraft on board total and two cats and so forth. You can probably build hundreds of these things and maintain them rather well all over the world.
Good luck, good hunting and get some!
I did my first ever arrested landing on that ship, (yeah it's a ship not a boat:)) many years ago, am retired now, VFA 87, some here will know what that means! It's a fine ship for what it's obvious she needs to do. Old Bill is a fine captain, he'll bring all of them back! CVW 1 is also one fine bunch of aviators, too bad they'll fight for noting but a bunch of greedy Jew bankers! Get them bogies boys!
TradingJoe said:
Let's do the right thing for once. Make us proud and shoot down the Israeli attack aircraft.
"We Kill Bad People And Break Their Stuff", this is just one of the many sleeve patches that "tell" it all! Many other have similar "wordings" yet once you get an order you're not allowed to "think" about it, just execute! Naval Aviators are a very peculiar bunch, to them it's "FLYING"...do the "job" and get home safe! Not that we're not thinking, we do that don't worry but we do it "muted", we love being "free" too much , we need to see the sky, not some wall in the brigg! :()))
you should try "jumping out of that airplane to do your fighting" sometime.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR6AF1ctDs8&feature=player_detailpage
"it's not easy when the numbers are never on your side."
I hear you! We were ALL in harms way! Our fine men and women on the ground even more so!
Even if true, those bankers have written yer checks too buddy. Just sayin. Thanks for your service, althugh I disagree with your silly notion of what it is all for. I do not see why simple conquest gives so many people conniptions. Or do you actually think, that is a just world, all wars would be only defensive? Man, read some Plato!
Like battleships and heavy cruisers in WW2, aircraft carriers are obsolete in WW3. Satellites and missile technology just make them a big and very expensive target.
There are viable means to eliminate targeting satellites and missiles. Carriers sometimes get sunk. It happens. Everyone knows that. USN estimates most carriers won't be sunk, plus they keep retired ships in 'mothballs' for a decade or two in case a big fight emerges and interim replacements are needed.
Iran doesn't have a chance in the air or on the water, but they can make it very dangerous for US and NATO.
And they can and would close the Strait of Hormuz and would be able to keep it more or less closed for as long as they want it closed. So Marines would have to be put ashore in large numbers, in southern Iran near the strait, to take and hold the territory surrounding it, in order for it to be re-opened and kept open.
It would require several LHD Amphibious groups plus airborne para insertion, plus engineers to set up and supply fire-bases on Iranian soil. They could certainly do this, but hundreds if not thousands of marines would die and the LHDs would be very vulnerable.
Countries would still try to send escorted tankers through the strait simply out of necessity, but huge numbers of tankers and Naval ships would be sunk in the attempt with no end in sight to that.
The Marines would be unable to stop this any more than Israel was able to stop Hezbollah via continuous heavy bombardment, drones and fast reaction air-power.
That's obviously not a fight that will occur before the election.
Iran anticipates the US would do all this if the strait was closed, and will have prepared and equipped their forces for precisely that sort of land battle to prevent the Marines getting established, and to destroy all attempts to re-supply them, then to over-run them as they are weakened. The whole area of southern Iran will be one gigantic network of defensive positions and forward positioned materials for that battle. It will be riddled with hidden tunnels and bunkers. So resupplying Marines would become a serious problem, using helicopters, and that would require a beach-head.
That beachhead and any ships coming in to it would be pounded with thousands of heavy missiles. Numerous ships would be lost, and thousands of US Marines and sailors killed, and vital supplies fail to be delivered. The US could thus be forced to withdraw because the US has only so many VLS missiles at sea and only so many Naval bases nearby that can replenish them, and only so much anti-mine warfare capability.
Frankly, I'd rather be facing the North Vietnamese than an incensed nationalistic hyper-religious Iranian military on their own territory. Chances are they're going to be highly creative, proficient and motivated, be everywhere, and be even more fanatical than the Japanese, during WWII.
So the question is; is the West prepared for a protracted fight of attrition?
Because once it starts and Marines are on Iranian territory they probably can't ever make Iran stop counter-attacking via bombing them, so they would be forced into a very bloody and hyper expensive ground war, to actually take Teheran, whether they wanted such a terrible battle, or not.
The Iranians will have anticipated this also.
What the West could expect is that the cheap and highly-effective anti-armour weapons used against Israel in Southern Lebanon in mid-2006, will be present in Iran in astronomical numbers. So even Trophy equipped vehicles will still be rapidly attrited by multiple attacks. Plus huge numbers of AAA and modernised MANPADs to deal with the hundreds of AH-64s that would be required.
This would be a huge and multi-axis battle, with real pressure on US Naval facilities and constant attacks on supply lines, i.e. it won't be like the slow drive to Bagdad.
Plus due to the extremely rough and high-mountain terrain (think Rocky mountains ... and then some) the easy land flanking opportunities that were abundant in Iraq won't be present almost at all in a battle for Iran, but there will be an almost endless series of traffic and logistics bottlenecks, and almost endless ambush opportunities along the route.
I wonder if people in the US military really understand and appreciate the nature of the complex terranes in Iran. It is worse than Pakistan and Afghanistan. Combat helicopters would genuinely struggle to cross the successive en-echelon rows of increasingly higher peaks, as you moved inland, so would be restricted to flying down valleys, with Iranians DOWN at them, with MANPADs and AAA, from the high mountain side bunkers and pre-prepared positions.
And MANPAD missiles fired upward, downward or sideward, from 10,000 feet up a mountain, in much thinner air, have a lot more range, better visibility of the approaches, than any MANPAD launched from sea level, and firing upward. The combination of MANPADs, anti-tank weapons, AAA, SAMs and artillery and mountains is real nice for the defender, not so much for an attacker suffering nearly constant effective ambushes.
It would be one of the most deadly land battles the US has ever fought, and it's not sufficiently clear that they would either win, or be able to hold positions.
The US would be crazy to get into such a war when perfectly viable diplomacy and negotiation would certainly be the far smarter option. But look who you've got as Secretary of State!
Good post, right or wrong. You spent some time in putting it together. I tend to agree--we are going to bite off more than we or Israel can chew and will eventually get our head handed to us. Man, talk about B.K.!1 Milestones
I worry about Israel using a nuke or 200 on Iran, should it look like they're taking too much damage and too many casualties.
Israel might should consider the possibility that Iran has purchased nukes from the FSU, NK, or Pakistan. Israel is small and densely populated. Iran is not, except for some cities.
They won't do it.
If Israel simply used nukes on Iran, Russia could at that point decide it does not want to live within range of a nuclear-armed psychopathic genocidal mass-murdering Jewish state, and may unavoidably decide that it must eliminate such a threat. If Russia ever gets forced into such a decision Israel and its military would disappear within the hour. And that would be that.
I'm actually very confident the US, UK and France won't risk losing their cities, power-supplies and oil flow, simply over the demise of a mass-murdering Jewish state.
In any genuine strategic war, where such choices are in fact real and have consequences, Israel would discover it has zero friends or allies who are willing to get nuked on their behalf, in the service of Israel's defense.
I spent some time on Google Earth eyeballing the Iranian Landscape divided by States.
It's essentially mountain passes with a handful of other types of land.
If you have ever stood at a place called Emigrant Pass in our Nation, you will understand why the Pioneers had to tie each wagon, horses and themselves to every single tree they could reach while going straight down.
And then try to do battle on chains in three feet of snow and winter hell up there.
I for one will be quite... worried for our Marines should they be sent inland to do bad things to our enemies that hate us very much.
The Iranians are not naturally "our enemies". There is no evidence that they want a war with the U.S.
And Israel is not our friend.
It's possibly the nastiest terrane an armoured mobile army would ever have to fight through. I can't think of a more hostile terrain to cross, and mine and IED opportunities would be endless. If a column were cut off and ambushed in those long deep valleys, they're probably not coming out again.
The other option is to leap-frog the mountain ranges. In that case after SAM and airfield suppression takes place the US would have to use C-17s to bring in heavy equipment to build a rough-field dirt airstrip behind the mountain ranges, in the central plateau area. I've seen US and Aussie army build a complete logistics base in only two days in a remote area. The technologies and methods for it exist and they practice doing it, from time to time. Once done they can bring in armour, SAMs and medium artillery in C-17s, and as many troops and supplies as necessary.
But I don't see how they could do it under fire. As occurred in Stalingrad, and also with the French in Vietnam, forward deployed forces can be surrounded and cut-off then slaughtered with artillery and waves of infantry and mortar.
The Iranians would be expecting the US to try this airborne option, and would attempt to detect and wipe it out as soon as it got on the ground. They have developed theatre-range heavy ballistic missile artillery for that sort of purpose. Ballistic artillery can likewise deliver hundreds of cluster munitions and mines within minutes over an airbase sized area.
Plus the US would not have the defensive measures in place in the first several days to stop it occurring, so that could turn into a slaughter. But even if it went well. I still can't see how they get in enough fuel and the heavy tankers need to transport it for a big fight into Teheran. Clearly it would take many months to build up forces inside Iran to get it done.
And what if the Iranians just lob a tactical nuke or two on it?
They would be perfectly justified in doing that if they had one. And let's not forget the Russian military recently and very bluntly said they would use nukes to stop such an attack.
We now know the Russians actually delegated independent field-launch authority to their nuclear missile crews in Cuba in 1962, if the US attacked. There absolutely would have been a nuclear exchange. So what if they take a similar step if the US invades Iran?
And the whole time the Iranians could have the strait closed and be bringing western economies to their knees, to a point where they have to negotiate cease fire, simply to avoid total systemic collapse.
And there is nothing to stop Russia from turning off gas and oil to Europe as well.
This sort of battle is the reason why the US strategic oil reserve exists, and why it will not be tapped to ease prices if the west really is planning to attack Iran. Quite the reverse, rationing would be instituted and private transportation would be banned and all fuel stocks would be forcibly nationalised overnight.
If you haven't already, buy a bike.
Stalingrad, oh brother. The invention of the tactical nuke and the cruise missile makes anything that happened during WWII a historical footnote. I can't speak to Dien Bien Phu, it's possible the French are just idiots when it comes to warfare...
@ Element
There will be NO LAND WAR in Iran, for the reasons you discuss. Great job writing your post. But, land war will not happen. We can't afford it (on multiple fronts) and it is not necessary.
Logically I agree.
But I'm not sure TPTB see it in logical terms.
If they did why are they still talking about attacking Iran?
I also haven't seen the Joint Chiefs coming out against it.
That suggests to me an attack on Iran is still politically active within the Pentagon.
Which further suggests the White House hasn't signalled to the Pentagon yet that an attack is off.
Which means an involuntary land invasion could occur, if the Strait is closed as a result.
No way. After we eliminate their air force, we'll simply helicopter small teams to the nuclear sites and blow them up. The teams will be in and out faster than ground reinforcements can get near.
This is what Israel did to the Syrian reactor a couple of years ago. With massive electronic jamming the Syrians didn't even know if they were being invaded, let alone where it was occurring... until days later.
If we do it the way you envision, we are morons and deserve our fate.
I suggest you have a look a satellite images of the sites involved, they're incredibly large, and some clearly protrude deep underground.
http://maps.google.com.au/maps?hl=en&tab=wl
Type in; "Parchin Iran", and have a look around.
Do you think what happened in Syria went un-noticed by Iran, who is their closest ally?
Do you think 'reinforcements' will be 20 miles away, and asleep in their underwear?
Iran has special forces also and will have used them to evaluate and plan defenses of such facilites against commando attacks--no one's going to just waltz in there.
US spies, sorry, innocent hikers, have been picked up as soon as they got inside Iran. This indicates the Iranians are actively patroling and looking for them. The closer you get to these sites the more radially dispersed observers and active patrols and sensors will be in the area listening for helicopters or drones, and looking for anything at all out of the ordinary.
Commandos from helicopters at 2AM with satchel charges, are a long shot, at best. Most likely they would be discovered and killed, or captured and eventually executed.
This is nice and all, but after reading the links that had details about the punch-up in the late '80s, I don't think this one will escalate that far.
Iran doesn't have a chance in the air or on the water, but they can make it very dangerous for US and NATO.
Good analysis of conventional warfare in Iran.
I believe it won't be conventional warfare. Maybe at first, but I believe the whole thing will go nuclear, and no, not Israel lobbing nukes into Iran. If Israel were to launch one nuke, going anywhere, it would be the end of Israel. I suspect they know that.
It'll be more like Russia lobbing nukes into America. I know that sounds crazy, but I believe it'll happen.
If people keep thinking this Iran thing will go like they hear on TV, I believe they're gonna be very surprised.
I came to this same conclusion in the late 1980s. It is simply so that if Israel did it, no matter what it took, or how long it took, Israel would eventually be completely eliminated for it.
You suspect they know that, but I just hope they're not in denial or blind to that reality, because I suspect they could be.
The Problem for Russia is they don't have target tracking data on US SSBN or SSNs, so I doubt they would dare to go for a knock-out punch knowing those subs can nail them right back ... well, unless they also thought they could stop missiles and RVs. They'd need more than S-400s. It's easier to stop all the subs, and that's particularly unlikely.
I personally think the Russians know that deterrence is the only way to co-exist with other nuclear-armed states, and that this is what they have been saying and trying to maintain since their arsenal build-up finally peaked and topped-out at about 40,000 nukes, in 1986. The Russians have done far more cutting to nuke numbers than the US did, so it seems to me at least, that they are serious about achieving a survivable and livable, "balance of terror".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CcJ_xGvnBdU
Frankly, I'd rather be facing the North Vietnamese than an incensed nationalistic hyper-religious Iranian military on their own territory.
The iranian military is made up of conscripts, mostly, or men who chose to get income that way thanks to the mullahs horrible economy for youth employment. Most of the people in the military do not want to be in the military, and hate the regime. On the other hand, they know how iraqi soldiers did who chose to fight western armies: they died uselessly in very large numbers, very quickly. Whereas those who gave up...went home!
So no, the large part of the iranian army doesn't pose much of a threat to the U.S. military., and the U.S. military does not pose much of a threat to them, so long as they are doing the smart thing welcoming the destruction of the regime and its security apparatus. They dream of that happening.
As always, a most excellent posting from Element. Thank you for the truth in your analysis good hearted one. Your well put words are highly appreciated.
Yes, set up like a bowling ball to fall...it has been the ongoing plan. Like the guy on the radio yesterday in active military saying we are so thinly spread out all across the world, many fear there is no hope of winning a world war.
The American soldiers have been on the sacrificial alter for ten years. The plan being to thin and eliminate the herd before the great and final solution war in which the USA(great satan) is being setup to lose the third world war. Bare in mind that at the top of the pyramid, the over all goal is a population reduction agenda to eliminate most of the human civilization. Wars work well for that, and there should be wise caution given to the fact that we are fast steaming towards a potential point of no return.
They are slow in the progressive agenda of world domination and the one world money system...but the major mechanisms of the planets demise are all on track and this time it is, hiel the god money!
.
I could engage your analysis of the strategic prospects here. But a question: have you maybe let a partisan lens color your perspective? or do you actually believe, Hillary Clinton is not as cut throat, exactly as cut throat in fact, as, say, Rumsfeld?
I think you underestimate the scale of US military planning. We already beta tested all the worst case scenarios. The Iraq war was the stress test, purposely botched with multiple systems failing. Bush took the fall as "derp" for that one, but that was the plan. Him and Obama cooked it up back in the late 70's while smoking a lot of hashish while interning at Langley. Hillary chuckled, but was not a smoker herself, but she was impressed with the audacity of it all, and managed to sell it to Bush Sr., who realized the history of his namesake kid played perfectly into the derp role, and he was good natured enough to let it roll. He signed Cheney on, and Rumsfeld was already in orbit, Gary Sevin style, on duty from Starfleet. Wait, you realize this is a VERY large scale operation, right?
More than likely, ever met anyone who hasn't, or isn't?
But don't interpret that to mean I'm taking sides, because I don't.
My 'side' is the one that says all sides are effectively insane and implicitly suicidal.
Unfortunately we are all involuntarily born into a 'side', one that claims to own us, and has a domineering right to our inner being's course and development.
Well fuck that, I reject it all.
Hopefully my comments provide some insight, however flawed, warped, inadequate and incomplete. We see through a glass darkly all the time, but that's no reason to not look at what you can see, and communicate about where this is going, and what the more obvious dangers are. I've studied operations and and their twists, I'm no expert but I have a grasp of the scale and scope of US global war planning. I read one book when much younger called, "S.I.O.P. - Single Integrated Operations Plan". Curiously this mind-blowing book does not seem to have made its way to Amazon. Over the years I've read mountains of stuff about Great-power plans, within plans, within plans, and the waves of subterfuge and propaganda that go along with it, and I regularly deal with and dscuss these issues in depth with people.
For those that don't know, an overview of SIOP from Wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Integrated_Operational_Plan
Here's why it's a particularly dumb but nonetheless completely real global-scale military plan that it contiues today in an evolved form:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQI1daFXp4U
So I'm not asking a self-appointed authority's permission to cut myself some slack RE any question of 'partisanship'.
Good luck, good hunting, and get some?
Good hunting of what, you fucking moron? Hunting some innocent people who have done nothing wrong?
The Iranians have done nothing wrong. Get it through your upside-down aerosol paint can brain.
Good luck surviving World War III.
Good hunting ... you'll need it. Your family will be so hungry they'll really want that opossum steak.
Get some ... radiation poisoning. You probably already have it from the Fukushima fallout but, if not, you'll soon get it from Depleted Uranium and the Enterprise reactors spewing neon day-glow shit into the Straits of Hormuz for the next thousand years.
Just imagine what it would be like if the world had ended the previous 238,451 times it was supposed to.
Nobody said the world is going to end, but if your idiotic posts would end I would consider that the "end of days" (of stupidity)
Salaam Alekum Brother
The Enterprise have fought the Iranians before.
No moron here. If there must be a war, let it be the USA and Israel to see it through along with some other allies such as the UK who has seen fit to send some very good ships down that way.
I have NO illusions that it's going to be a terrible and brutal fight to reopen the damn waterway. But reopen it we will.
If you cannot wish our Military (Who are a Volunteer Force by the way) well then you need to be quiet.
Too damn many of my family has spilled blood through the centuries for idiots like you to sit and call other people bad names. Is this the freedom that they bought and paid for you to have?
"We" "Allies" "Our" your post gets more and more ironic and twilight zone, then you end it with a reference to our long dead freedom.
I mean you are joking - spoofing right? Like "Freedom!" get it lol!
Christ if the Brits want to resurrect their empire let them do it without us. Remember, we "are" their empire, not helpy little helpers in arms. As far as that other little Satanic Cult you mentioned, God help the world.
"If there must be a war, let it be the USA and Israel to see it through along with some other allies. . ."
The last time I checked Israel was not a NATO member and there is no U.S.-Israel Mutual Defense Treaty.
Are you one of those ADLers whose job it is to make Americans believe that Israel is somehow her friend?
Daddy, who profits from war?
Iran has been waging a low level war via proxy directly arming and funding attacks against the US for 30yrs. From the hostages, to Beirut to most recently arming/funding at least one maybe two of three sides in Iraq.
Every muzzie around here knows it, or one's to believe the Shia just magically made arms out of sand.
But thanks for playing.
Done nothing wrong?
Oh ho... they have done plenty. Starting with the Hostages problem way back when.
If the Persians decide enough with the current government of Iran and overthrow it to save themselves and their great nation from a terrible war they need to do it soon.
You are right about past historic attacks like the 1980 Hostage situation, when Iran mercilessly slaughtered -ZERO- Americans, I forgot about that. How much more you must yearn for revenge against the evil Iranians when they killed 35 Americans in their totally unprovoked attack on the USS Liberty in 1967.
What kind of payback do you propose?
No war here.
Arming the Shia's in Iraq was a coincidence.
All a big misunderstanding afterall no one speaks farsi here.
Aslam Alekem Brothers.
One should never let moral reasoning cloud one's understanding of reality. I do not rejoice at this world that may very well come. But there it is. I will admit, "good hunting and get some" is far too jaunty for my tastes. I prefer a much more grim, and silent, set as realize there shall be blood. this is not funny, even though of course, write about it as such we must, or go mad.
People have advocated for that sort of platform before. In fact, the Carter administration pushed such a concept. The problem is the number and striking power of embarked aircraft does not scale linearly with the displacement of the carrier. An aircraft carrier set up to hold 85-90 aircraft will displace 100,000 tons. An aircraft carrier set up to carry 40 aircraft will still be 60,000 - 65,000 tons, assuming even that the aircraft are V/STOL (like the Harrier or F-35B). An aircraft carrier set up for 24 aircraft (non-V/STOL especially) will still be a 40,000+ ton vessel. All of this depends to some extent on how multi-mission the thing has to be and what the requirements for sustained operations have to be. Fuel and weapons take up more room than you would think, and the placement of deck infrastructure can cut down radically on the number of sorties you can support in a day.
Bottom line, this his been looked at before and soundly rejected. If you want to save some money on carriers, build the newer Ford-class vessels so they have less crew complement and way more automation. That's being done to some extent on the Ford, as well as the British QE (Queen Elizabeth, not Quantitive Easing :) ) class.
I understand your post.
Automation is good, however manpower in damage control is even better. Being able to stay mission effective is even more vital.
We cannot rely on Norfolk to stay in existence to fix everything. And yes, I am one of those awful assholes to even consider what would happen to us if we lost Norfolk.
Italy has an example of a very small aircraft carrier: Italian aircraft carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi (551)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_aircraft_carrier_Giuseppe_Garibald...
That is in fact extremely optimistic. This ship typically carries 8 Harriers and about 6 helicopters as anything else must be carried up on deck, and often interfers with or precludes flight operations as aircraft have to be swapped around the hanger, or up to the deck and back again, simply to get the necessary aircraft in the right place to operate. The ship's displacement is 13,850 tons fully loaded, and that's extremely small considering the US Wasp Class LHD's are around 40,500 tons displacement.
The USMC LHD's are in fact medium sized multi-role aircraft carriers in their own right;
Standard embarked aircraft load (mix varies by deployment or mission needs):
• 12 × CH-46 Sea Knight helicopters
• 4 × CH-53E Super Stallion helicopters
• 6 × AV-8B Harrier attack aircraft
• 3 × UH-1N Huey helicopters
• 4 × AH-1Z Viper helicopters
• MV-22 Osprey VTOL tilt-rotor aircraft
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wasp_%28LHD-1%29
i.e. you can put 90% harriers or F-35B on them, if you must, on occasion.
So an LHD can always function as a more capable aircraft carrier, if necessary. Carriers often reduce the number of aircraft they embark so they're less cluttered. You can squeeze more aircraft on of course but you get into a situation where you can do even less with it. Like all things there's an optimal mix, to maximise effects.
And likewise, there is an optimal mix of small and large aircraft carriers and helicopter carriers.
Frankly, I think the US would probably be better served with more LHDs and fewer CVNs. That way some LHD's could operate as dedicated F-35B fast-jet carriers where necessary, and allow others to operate as dedicated amphibious and helicopter attack ships (with no fast jets, thus you operate two LHDs together, one for each role), whilst still others serve as dedicated anti-submarine-warfare helicopter carriers.
Given so few current USN DDGs can embark a hangered dedicated anti-submarine helicopter (which is their weakest point) a dedicated anti-submarine-warfare LHD would fill-in that gap to provide around-the-clock ASW coverage, rather than just an hour or two of coverage per day .... if you're lucky.
Russia's first multi-role 'aircraft-carrier' missile-cruisers were designed and used as dedicated anti-submarine helicopter carriers as it was recognised that these ships were the ideal platform for finding and killing US nuclear submarines in the North Atlantic, thus the Russian fleet would be able to operate in the North Atlantic.
Such an arrangement is unlikely though because LHD's are Marine Corps and CVNs are Navy, so the politics kills it.
And that is why we may have a false flag done to the Enterprise. It's supposed to be decommissioned and it has alot of small nuclear reactors. It's going to be a bear to get rid of the Enterprise so it would be better if it was attacked and sunk on the other side of the planet.
Has anyone checked Lloyds for a insurance contract on the Enterprise yet?
There is plenty of pink slime to go around
Betting the crew really loves the rustic accommodations. It's gonna be hot in the Gulf of Sindbad's fabled heroics - does the E have crew HVAC systems?
[Also] Betting some of the crew are wondering why a "should be mothballed piece of iron" is sailing into the gulf. Some may be wondering if the LBJ endorsed glorious false flag bait fate mentality that sacrificed the USS Liberty's crew to glory, is, in fact, the fate they await on the big lady E.
Be great for oil prices!
Iran got the baddest assed anti ship systems on the planet (+MACH 2 Russian Stuff). the US Navy has a hard time defending against harbor tugs and Iraqi Mirage Exocet platforms. The US Navy cannot defend the Iranian systems. Theoretically, Iran could put every US asset floating in the gulf on the bottom in minutes. The War Usury Exchanges Israeli colony would become an instant ashtray. This will allow the War Usury Exchanges' American Colony's military industrial complex to commit the most devastating war crimes and acts of industrial scale genocide (lots bigger than Iraq could ever be) in the history of mankind and provide the fear fog needed to formalize the gentry of the commons as fully documented indentured servants to colonial stewards (viceroy and ruling council). The last vestiges of pretense the US is a republic will get swept into the dust bin of tyranny doped up commons have allowed in daze gone by.
We are but sheeple grazing in the Valley of the Bling!
There is other old iron sailing to or already in the gulf. Old amphibious assets.
The alchemy of fascism turns blood to gold. And blood clots bleeding are always a better return than mothballing!
Read a couple of paragraphs from 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor recipient, Major General Smedley Butler's thesis, "War is a Racket".
Glory is death. It is better to be alive.
US Soldiers are very cost effective. For example, this weekend it took several sorties and millions in ordance for the Colony of Israel to kill 17 Palestian civilians. Very expensive. All the while Israel was going to all that trouble (110 missiles to be exact!) to flame broil a couple of kids in Palestine, ONE US SOldier, with just his issued weapon, and no more than a few clips of ammo was able to kill 16 Afghanistan civilians. 9 children, 3 women and 4 males. F*ck Yeah! Jesus F*cking Titty Christ, Team America, all the way!
Magical mid eastern manufacturing consent theatrics were exposed when reports from Syria, today, reported Syrian authorities had arrested members of the marquis "Syrian Rebel Army Whatever" Iraqi, Afghani, and European mercs and European military officers as well as caches of Israeli and US ordinance. Lots of cash, mostly EUR and USD, floating around Syria. Syrian Western Hero Cockney Accented Syria Danny was caught staging a scene for a CNN interview - hours later Danny shows up in NYC sitting across from our very famous but barely watch Zoglodytic Droid, Andersen, "the pooper scooper" Cooper explaing to CNN's loyal 3 viewers why, in fact that the staged war zone fantasy Cockney Danny and CNN were manufacturing was not a fabrication.
Complete and utter nonsense.
So why only on those ships so far? It's for two main reasons' (1) because they have no other missile defense and they carry a LOT of people, and (2) because the surrounding Destroyer Cruiser and Frigate screen has hundreds of SM1, SM2 and ESSM missiles, that can do the same, but from very much further out. The Sea RAM is only on the above ships in order to provide a third inner layer of extra missile defenses to intercept any ASMs that the SM2 and ESSMs may fail to intercept. And given SeaRAM has a 95% 1-on-1 success rate against 180 real ASMs I'd say there is practically zero chance of ASMs getting through to hit a carrier (unless they run out of such defensive missiles in an attack involving hundreds of missiles ... for that is what it would take to hit a carrier or LHD).
People need to get over this false idea that US Navy carriers and LHD's can't defend themselves against Mach2.5 anti-ship missiles and ballistic missiles. It isn't true, in fact it's pure bollocks. US Navy's SM2 (long range), ESSM (medium range) and SEARAM (short range) missiles can all engage and destroy such weapons, and have repeatedly done so with high reliability in multiple tests for years.
Probably no ships would be hit or sunk for as long as they have missiles left to defend themselves with, and can withdraw to reload at an appropriately equipped naval base and return.
Are these real tests or computer simulations your citing here? Are they considering the system failing in battle or Human Error? Have they ever worked before? Alot of the tests on these weapons systems are politicized and are also "spun" from a psychological angle, helping to reassure the public and the politicians that the Wundderwaffen make our armies unstoppable.
I'm thinking back to seeing the U.S reports on the F-22 claiming it was a game change and truly next generation. RAND Corp made it sound like a waste of money.
Isn't this going to make everything way more expensive now we need one missile to shoot down everyone of our enemies?
And I thought moi was a gadfly!
Mr. Element certainly has been all over this one and shares a style similar to other ZH troll login accounts.
His condemnation with the phrase "Complete and utter nonsense" is a common neo con / neo liberal first volley trolling bash. He said "bulloacks", so maybe he's our cockney accented Syria Danny,
Have not read all his posts. For this article alone it would take 2 mths. But I wouldn't be surprise if Mr Element penned the word "quisling", another popular troll stomp word, especially by posters whose first language was the for of ghetto Yiddish spoken in West Bank Settlements.
Then you do not know much to make such a dumb comment.
Are you afraid of comments that depart from your 'world-view'?
How about you just address what I said within the comment, if you disagree with it, or has your world-view been all-shook-up by the truth of the situation?
The topic of this thread is: "Aircraft Carrier Enterprise Sets Off On Final Journey - Direction Iran"
How does discussing the actual topic and the assertions that have been voiced about it equate to 'trolling' in your mind?
Or would you just rather we all sign-up to refresh the cannon-fodder while the wife and squids make the ammo, and get nasty telegrams about sacrifice and the greater-good?
Complete and utter crap.
I am guilty of making dumb comments all the time. And I appreciate the grace you offered to point it out. I confess: I am as dumb a zero brain cheerleader sis boom baaahing with an obviously overly compensating meticulously precise expose of military assets to center my crotch direct dead center in the curved carny mirror that makes my love muscle look larger than life.
But you , my dear dear friend, with all your Jane's Defense Catalog recital skills, may have forgotten the answer to the "riddle of steel".
Steel. my dear lonely heart hardware reciting song bird, is, to be sure, strong, but, it is nothing when compared to the power and strength of flesh.
Flesh, not steel, is the true source of earthly power.
I close with a toast offered by the private eye to the stars, the one, the only and greatest gum shoe of our time, Ford Fairlane, who quipped as the magnums of bubbly were dispensed: "Here's to s*cking my dick, AW!".
Keep it wet and keep fending off those big musky masculine love muscles pecking outside the security of your Jane's Defense Catalog Cage, and keep them at bay, by calling them dumb! Remember what mommy said, "They only hate you because you're better than they are".
We who live, salute you!
(_|_)
yikes! ... whatever you're on there, I don't want any ... I can't help but notice you made no comment re what you originally criticised, and called 'trolling', and issued several insults ... and now a few more.
If you have nothing to say other than that drivel, then perhaps you should STFU?
You were talking COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE.
I pointed this out to you and relieved a little of your intense befuddlement.
You may not like being completely wrong, but you will have cope.
"... stupid is as stupid does ..."
called 'trolling'
Allow a para-cite from Jane's Defense Catalog, under the index item to 15 Attributes of a Troll, yow will see words Jane's concludes as evidence of "Troll" behavior. Here are a few for your gracious consideration from the section list common troll words and , you will find the following wards ...
----
utterly
drivel
whatever you're on there, I don't want any
COMPLETE AND UTTER NONSENSE
... stupid is as stupid does ...
STFU
quisling
---
There are others, to be sure. The addendum to the index includes references to flaming queens bitching while screaming 6 inches or less at 7-11 cashiers because they ran out of the most recent issue of "Dumb Old Nude Fat Guys Quarterly".
When responses to replies are loaded up with condemnation of those we are responding too with `tween the lines" and not to hard to spot "little man" issues seemingly underlying every word, but little, to no, off the cuff "from the heart" analysis, one must accept the possibility they're dealing with a "feather duster" feigning the "phony tough rut strut".
Grazing in the Valley of Bling has made us all fearful, overly reactive and really pissed off. The trick is to learn how to control it.
That being said, allow it to be made soothingly easy for you: You are right - I am wrong. You win.
Feel better now?
You obviously didn't read the link.
The SeaRAMs are real missiles, physically fired in realistic testing conditions against real incoming missiles, some of them tested traveling up to Mach2.5, and SeaRAM successful kills in the 95% range.
Ask yourself why you're surprised by this result?
Sorry if the prevailing internet zeitgeist mentality lead you to another view but the USN has been developing and fielding naval SAMs that can destroy other missiles since the early 1960s. Only the Russians ever produced a broadly comparable range of naval anti-missile systems (more in fact).
All the major nuclear powers are making these and have them in service right now, they have been proven in numerous tests and exercises and they do reliably kill missiles, especially when two are fired at every in-coming missile, which is the Western standard practice, then re-assess and follow up with more if necessary. The chances of both missiles missing are rather low. And with long, medium and short-range defensive missiles, you have three separate systems and three opportunities with which to fire 9 to 12 missiles, at every in-coming anti-ship missile.
It works. Incoming missiles do not 'leak' through to the ships ... as long as you don't run out of missiles be fore the attacks end. US Destroyers and Cruisers each carry hundreds of them, ESSMs can fit 4 per cell with 128 to 196 cells per ship. i.e. enormous capacity to shoot-down wave after wave of antiship missile attacks.
Several countries have made short-range (under 5km range) dedicated ship-based anti-missile defence systems, many based on advanced MANPAD missiles or short range air-to-air fighter missiles.
What's possibly coming next: (if it can actually physically stop a 'dead' Mach 2.5 missile travelling-on and crashing into the ship anyway ... which would be almost as bad)
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/05/31/navy.death.ray.wired/
Thanks for ^^^. Why do people need doomsday thinking? Just because something is very, very huge -- like, say, a war -- does not mean it is like some OMG the end is near, we are doomed, the entire fleet will be vapoized because Spock let the star kill his home planet, etc etc.
Come on, this is very technical, very physical stuff. If anything sinks, it has been calculated as an acceptable loss. Unless you think we are governed by idiots. I do not think things work that way. All chaos is more or less either planned, or shrugged off. At least, that is what my day looks like, not sure about yours!
I got 99 problems, but chaos ain't one.
very huge -- like, say, a war -- does not mean it is like some OMG the end is near
The end is always near. it just depends on what we mean by end, the end of our current heart beat usually anticipates there will be a beat after, but who knows. If by end we mean the end of our measly life span, refer to "last heart beat" (above). If by end we mean the sun's corona engulfing the earth in about 15 Billion years, the last heart beat axiom means most if not all of us do not need to be concerned about that, unless we are designing some kind of propulsion system that can be used to increase earth's orbital radius to some tangent lying between the orbits of mars and jupiter, see "last heart beat" axiom above. If by end we mean total protonic reversal and the entire universe collapsing in on itself at tachyon speeds after the last higgs boson is dissolved from existence by the end of time, see "last heart beat" axiom above.
Or end could mean the stage setting for our personal end. There's a big difference in dying while holding ones guts in and then having ones throat slit ear to ear as we listen to baseball bats crush our children's skulls while they scream for the mercy of the gates of hell, and dying in a bed surrounded by grand children as Mr Bluebird whistles "Those were the days my Friend" in the early spring foliage of a 300 year old oak tree outside our death bed window. Or a personal end like coming back from market and getting caught in a street riot when the Xe Crowd Control boys turn on the crowd control microwave and our brain pops like a teeny bops pimple head on a school bathroom mirror.
So "end", and any attributes we might associate with the "end", depends on both "when" and "how" the end occurs, right?
Unless you think we are governed by idiots.
Is that a "trick question"?
I got 99 problems, but chaos ain't one.
Chaos in never a problem. Chaos is opportunity.
Our problem is the lack of chaos. Our problem is too much certitude. There is no way to "play" certitude. Certitude is stasis.
And thats why I won't do two shows a night. I just won't!
"Zoglodytic Droid, Andersen, "the pooper scooper" Cooper explaing to CNN's loyal 3 viewers why,"
The article says it will be there within one week. With listed cruise speed of 33 knots it could cover the distance 8600 nm in 11 days. We'll see.
ya, the tylerz (must b the newbie headline writers taking lessons from GW ;-) don't really understand SLOCs and that it isn't the deck, it is the group.
Lotta' old nucs 'board Enterprise getting the last dose of old neutrons and gammaz. Most of the original plank-holders must be dead. I hope that this group of future-plankholders aquits themselves well above average.
- Ned
The United States Navy excels in high speed.
If a Carrier needs to get up and go, it probably can break at least 30 knots inside of a minute. With enough force to require people to hand hold something sturdy.
But the true top speed? Classified as far as I know. And with good reason. They probably can displace 1000 miles in 24 hours if not more depending on the seas.
I am a Battleship man, however our Carriers essentially represent the very best of all the trades required to build and maintain them.
I don't give a damn what the nay-sayers do. We are making preparations ourselves for WW3 as well. Have been for years. We live in Titan Country with silos all around us from the 50's We are a people who has had several generations of Cold War expertise and experience even with nuclear accidents in the past that could have been quite something.
Live your life with a glad heart, tend to your labor with a strong will and never ever be unprepared.
If you think what it takes to keep a aging Carrier going, the Navy has a saying. There is Tough and then there is Enterprise Tough.
I think you have a simple, clear eyed view of military realities. I might condense your point: Big fucking hammers. We got 'em. And they are not just for looks. And sometimes, a problem *can* become just like a nail.
You may be right. It is the nay-sayers who are just confused; at worst, your calculation of probabilities is off, but at least you are calculating the right numbers!
The article says the Enterprise will reach the Gulf in a week. At the Enterprise cruise speed of 33 knots it would take 11 days to travel the 8600 nm not considering currents.
False flag event coming up.
"We can't go on together, with suspicious minds."
How bout a little Elvis the Pelvis;)
Gerald Celente had some interesting thoughts on the Iran situation this week in an interview with RT News:
http://www.ftense.com/2012/03/gerald-celente-discusses-hawks-circling.html
Disturbing images from Iran:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98j0I7e5OHE
Persian nights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y_AqbcGFGg&feature=related
Look to be a bunch of Western Emo's that need stoning.
That's the real reason iRan is phuked: not enough punks&metalheadz.
Reminds me of how we sold the "barbaric devils" of Japan and Germany as our enemies, prior to and during WWII - and how civilized we were in placing US citizens of Japanese descent in camps (but not those of German descent).
If there's a war that really needs to be fought it's against these morons in government that wage endless wars, killing inocent civilians (collateral damage) and wasting our public treasuries that result in the ruin of our nation.
Cui Bono? For whose benefit? The MIC.
To my detriment as a taxpayer 1st, and 2nd as a world traveler; I'm at risk being identified as a US citizen, a (percieved) promoter of these wars.
Not only the Japanese-Americans but also the German-American citizens were put in concentration camps in the US.
You may check their history here:
The German American Internee Coalition ("GAIC") was formed in 2005 by and for German American and Latin American citizens and legal residents who were interned by the United States during World War II.
http://www.gaic.info/
There is intelligent life on Earth....but I am not stopping, just looking for Dilithium crystals
Hey Scotty: It's not that there's no intelligent life down here, it's that it's fucking moronic pernicious homo sap humanoids down here.
I'm so sick and tired of having to share the planet with selfish venal unconscious idiots: BEAM ME THE FUCK UP NOW!
The technology has progressed, and we remain beings run by animal instincts and armed by reason. I will be happy to leave this world whoever calls first, Scotty or God.
Scotty is God. Dog is Scotty. Are you ready?
anybody want to know what a 1 billion dollar bill (demandable in gold of course) looks like? From now on on this website i would like ot be known as divinecosmos.com the smartest guy in the universe. I think i owe this website a donation soon thanks Tyler
http://bit.ly/AyOjk8
"Henry, there's something I would like to tell you, for what it's worth, something I wish I had been told years ago. You've been a consultant for a long time, and you've dealt a great deal with top secret information. But you're about to receive a whole slew of special clearances, maybe fifteen or twenty of them, that are higher than top secret.
"I've had a number of these myself, and I've known other people who have just acquired them, and I have a pretty good sense of what the effects of receiving these clearances are on a person who didn't previously know they even existed. And the effects of reading the information that they will make available to you.
"First, you'll be exhilarated by some of this new information, and by having it all -- so much! incredible! -- suddenly available to you. But second, almost as fast, you will feel like a fool for having studied, written, talked about these subjects, criticized and analyzed decisions made by presidents for years without having known of the existence of all this information, which presidents and others had and you didn't, and which must have influenced their decisions in ways you couldn't even guess. In particular, you'll feel foolish for having literally rubbed shoulders for over a decade with some officials and consultants who did have access to all this information you didn't know about and didn't know they had, and you'll be stunned that they kept that secret from you so well.
"You will feel like a fool, and that will last for about two weeks. Then, after you've started reading all this daily intelligence input and become used to using what amounts to whole libraries of hidden information, which is much more closely held than mere top secret data, you will forget there ever was a time when you didn't have it, and you'll be aware only of the fact that you have it now and most others don't....and that all those other people are fools.
"Over a longer period of time not too long, but a matter of two or three years you'll eventually become aware of the limitations of this information. There is a great deal that it doesn't tell you, it's often inaccurate, and it can lead you astray just as much as the New York Times can. But that takes a while to learn.
"In the meantime it will have become very hard for you to learn from anybody who doesn't have these clearances. Because you'll be thinking as you listen to them: 'What would this man be telling me if he knew what I know? Would he be giving me the same advice, or would it totally change his predictions and recommendations?' And that mental exercise is so torturous that after a while you give it up and just stop listening. I've seen this with my superiors, my colleagues....and with myself.
"You will deal with a person who doesn't have those clearances only from the point of view of what you want him to believe and what impression you want him to go away with, since you'll have to lie carefully to him about what you know. In effect, you will have to manipulate him. You'll give up trying to assess what he has to say. The danger is, you'll become something like a moron. You'll become incapable of learning from most people in the world, no matter how much experience they may have in their particular areas that may be much greater than yours."
....Kissinger hadn't interrupted this long warning. As I've said, he could be a good listener, and he listened soberly. He seemed to understand that it was heartfelt, and he didn't take it as patronizing, as I'd feared. But I knew it was too soon for him to appreciate fully what I was saying. He didn't have the clearances yet.
divine cosmos only tells part of the story- for the rest
Subject: .The Bankruptcy of The United States
United States Congressional Record, March 17, 1993 Vol. 33, page H-1303
THIS IS IMPORTANT!!!!
Speaker-Rep. James Traficant, Jr. (Ohio) addressing the House:
"Mr. Speaker, we are here now in chapter 11.. Members of Congress are
official trustees presiding over the greatest reorganization of any Bankrupt
entity in world history, the U.S. Government. We are setting forth
hopefully, a blueprint for our future. There are some who say it is a
coroner's report that will lead to our demise.
It is an established fact that the United States Federal Government has
been dissolved by the Emergency Banking Act, March 9, 1933, 48 Stat. 1,
Public Law 89-719; declared by President Roosevelt, being bankrupt and
insolvent. H.J.R. 192, 73rd Congress m session June 5, 1933 - Joint
Resolution To Suspend The Gold Standard and Abrogate The Gold Clause
dissolved the Sovereign Authority of the United States and the official
capacities of all United States Governmental Offices, Officers, and
Departments and is further evidence that the United States Federal
Government exists today in name only.
The receivers of the United States Bankruptcy are the International
Bankers, via the United Nations, the World Bank and the International
Monetary Fund. All United States Offices, Officials, and Departments are now
operating within a de facto status in name only under Emergency War Powers.
With the Constitutional Republican form of Government now dissolved, the
receivers of the Bankruptcy have adopted a new form of government for the
United States. This new form of government is known as a Democracy, being an
established Socialist/Communist order under a new governor for America. This
act was instituted and established by transferring and/or placing the Office
of the Secretary of Treasury to that of the Governor of the International
Monetary Fund. Public Law 94-564, page 8, Section H.R. 13955 reads in part:
"The U.S. Secretary of Treasury receives no compensation for representing
the United States."
http://bit.ly/zKSA1Q
Dude: Interesting stuff! I will check it out.
... two braincells of Lloyd Blankfein's gros grey matter trigg. Cockless faggot cums on the 200$ pricetag fer barrel ....
7 Billions of worthless "Untermenschen" star on Armaggedon ...
Peamuts fer free, bitcheZ !!!!!
Excuse me. I thought this was a thread about America's oldest Aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise and possible war with Iran?
!. What is the tried and true way to get the people behind a war?
2. What is the cheapest way to decommission a Nuclear Naval vessel?
Crazy time: War With Iran: A False Flag Alert
Greek Default? Perhaps that’s what the American people need to see before they can begin to connect the dots, but don’t bet on it. While this unfolds we will likely be distracted by yet another ‘necessary’ conflict in the Mid East (Syria? Iran?), as the 1% of the 1%’s Goose steps the balance of man ever closer to a global calamity.
The Silent Coup, Para Militarization And The New Reich
Inflection Point
I throw down a challenge sir!! A challenge!
And who, as the summer approaches, shall be our Gary Condit? Surely, we need an unusually piquant MWW! (missing white woman)
Let the new crisis begin: http://www.armadamarkets.com/2012/03/let-the-new-crisis-begin/
Fuck off, spammer!
Sacrificial Lamb?
I was wondering that myself and then wondered are these actual working aircraft packed in below deck ?
Of course they are real. The contractors will make more selling replacements at the newer, inflated emergency price.
Hey, there's an election and two political parties that needs financing coming up.
Pearl Harbor Part Deux, Bitchez!
Havana Harbor Part Deux!
Can you say, "Remember the Enterprise!"?
... to announce tonight another step forward in balancing the budget of the United States in spite of partisan bickering and Republican obstructionism, the investment made possible by the savings from no longer needing to decomission the USS Enterprise, having fallen victim to unprovoked terroristic attacks in the Persian Gulf causing the innocent deaths of over 5,000 brave American soldiers and sailors, men and women, patriots of all races and colors, even genders indeterminate, therby necessitating unilateral nuclear heat, light and kinetic military operations, I hereby announce the intiation of Operation Glassine Parking Lot....
But that would involve changing the molecular structure of all the oil so it glows in the dark, forever?
Sell it to Japan. It'll still be well within their new, improved radiation safety standards.
And then the combustion products will just go up into the jetstream and head across the Pacific to the American west coast. The circle will be complete.
+1
Demolition derby.
Bullish for razor blades!
too funny. seriously
Ship scheduled to be decommisioned: Check.
Ship going to cost a lot of money to dismantle due to eight (8) nuclear reactors: Check.
Sacrificial Lamb, meet "unexpected" "unfortunate" "event".
http://warships1discussionboards.yuku.com/topic/18384/Navy-to-scrapped-E...
Just call it for what it is The USS Forced democracy , USS Murder for profits , USS exploitation..
Get lost with the fucking gay names uss enterprise, USS Wolverine
USS Brown Child Incinerator
USS Freedom Exterminator
USS Goebbels' Truthmaker
USS Netanyahu's Fist
right on right on fourthstooge-ing
cheers~!
lol @ Netanyahu's Fist. you have to admit, that is pretty awesome.
All those cowardly men and women off to die for the NY/DC Axis of Evil. I bet their fat, in-debt-to-their-eyeballs, boomer parents are so proud to see their children on their way to mercilessly rape and murder innocents at the behest of a cabal of treasonous fascists, whose true allegiance, once again on display for the world to see and ignore, lies with a foreign government.
Idiocracy, slaves.
Asinine, Boomer children aren't in that position. Most are the University playing simulations of this on Xbox.
Yep, These are immigrant children mostly, Dying for their parent's right to collect entitlement checks from the government.
And so that they themselves may later be granted citizenship.
Yet another page right out of the Roman playbook.
Chapter immediately after Bread and Circuses
NeoRandian:
Ayn gonna' punish u 'cuz your statement is not able to be proved objectively:
Check out Mac Owens and see the numbers.
Dumbass!
- Ned
here's your breakdown for "09" can't imagine it changing all that much in 3 years!
http://www.2k.army.mil/faqs.htm#demo
How about Drug Addicts. I thought they let them serve now? How about gays and Lesbians, is there a category for them?
"Expendables"
Calling me baby killer!
Trautman: You did everything to make this private war happen. You've done enough damage. This mission is over, Rambo. Do you understand me? This mission is over! Look at them out there! Look at them! If you won't end this now, they will kill you. Is that what you want? It's over Johnny. It's over!
Rambo: Nothing is over! Nothing! You just don't turn it off! It wasn't my war! You asked me, I didn't ask you! And I did what I had to do to win! But somebody wouldn't let us win! And I come back to the world and I see all those maggots at the airport, protesting me, spitting. Calling me baby killer and all kinds of vile crap! Who are they to protest me? Who are they? Unless they've been me and been there and know what the hell they're yelling about!
Trautman: It was a bad time for everyone, Rambo. It's all in the past now.
Rambo: For *you*! For me civilian life is nothing! In the field we had a code of honor, you watch my back, I watch yours. Back here there's nothing!
Trautman: You're the last of an elite group, don't end it like this.
Rambo: Back there I could fly a gunship, I could drive a tank, I was in charge of million dollar equipment, back here I can't even hold a job *parking cars*!
Boomer children are in their 30's happily awaiting their Medicare taxes to triple to pay for Mom and Dad's insulin and heart pills.
Political discourse is one thing you fucking tool, but cowards murdering and raping innocents? That sounds more like an OWS group more than the men and women of the US military. 18 (so far) up arrows?!?
Douchbags...
Sixteen innocent Afghan civilians - including nine children and three women - were shot and killed by a rogue U.S. soldier who opened fire after suffering a 'mental breakdown' early this morning.
The Army staff sergeant, who was stationed at a U.S. base in Kandahar, reportedly entered three Afghan family’s homes around 3am this morning and began the killing spree. A relative of the deceased added that he then 'poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113410/US-soldier-shoots-dead-16-Afghan-civilians-house-house-shooting-spree-suffering-mental-breakdown.html#ixzz1oqXVSTsC
Yes, this will now be presented by people of your ilk as the norm. You and I both know this is not the policy of the US military. Once again, politics is one thing; I too believe we should pull the fuck out of not only the middle east, but the rest of the world( a few forward bases is a good thing), but to try and claim the US military is just out rampaging through the countryside murdering and blowing up everything that moves is pure Bullshit.
jwoop66 = psychopath
Footage showing American soldiers urinating on dead Afghan bodies has sparked outrage across the world - with Afghanistan's leaders labelling it as a 'recruitment tool for the Taliban'.
The 'disgusting' and 'highly reprehensible' 40-second clip shows four men in combat gear standing over the three corpses with their genitals exposed as they relieve themselves.
The men can be heard joking 'Have a great day, buddy', 'Golden like a shower' and 'Yeahhhh!' as they groan with relief whilst urinating.
It has sparked anger from Afghans, with top negotiator from President Hamid Karzai's High Peace Council Arsala Rahmani, saying it will have a 'very, very bad impact on peace efforts'.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2085378/US-troops-urinating-dead-Afghan-bodies-video-used-Taliban-recruitment-tool.html#ixzz1oqacRJZV
and lets not forget the helicopter attack video that showed the slaughtering of innocents, with 1 being a bloomberg employee...and the disgusting audio
Winning hearts and minds®
(that is, winning them for all those who oppose the breakaway nation of Vichy DC)
Bloomberg is part of the global-elite mafia.
That hello attack was not an accident, on neither part.
>>>Yes, this will now be presented by people of your ilk as the norm.
how do you think the Afghan people will take it? the U.S. better get the hell out of afghanistan and soon, or more and more of the young soldiers are coming home in bags. First the koran burning and now this... it seems fairly clear that someone wants to set afghanistan on fire.
What about the Haditha massacre? 24 innocent Iraqis, including a toddler, executed.
Abu Ghraib? Some bull dyke and a bunch of mustachio'ed queers getting off on sexual sadism.
The Kataba raid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khataba_raid). Two innocent pregnant woman and a teenage girl executed by a special forces team.
The notorious "kill team" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maywand_District_murders) in Afghanistan that killed various people, including a teenage boy.
The murders in Bagram.
The "Collateral Murder" video where U.S. helicopter gunners laugh while murdering an unarmed journalist.
Anyone remember the video of U.S. soldiers throwing puppies off a cliff? (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=621_1204615429)
Or the plethora of videos that one could find online circa 2004-2006 showing U.S. soldiers mocking poverty-stricken Iraqi children?
C'mon Jwoop66, grow some balls for the first time in your life. Stop trying to pretend that everyone who joins the U.S. military is some upstanding citizen who is there to serve their country with honor and dignity. Maybe back in 1945 but you're an idiot if you think that's the case today. I'm of recruitment age and most of the individuals I know who went in to the military did so either because 1) they had practically zero job options otherwise, and would likely have ended up in jail, or 2) they're borderline-sociopathic antisocial fucks who want to live out their 'Call of Duty' fantasies in real life (or a combination of the two). Don't pretend iike there aren't a ton of gangmembers in the military who gives two fucks about this nation and are just there to collect yet one more government check (why do you think you can find Gangster Disciples and Crip tagging in fucking Kabul?). Don't pretend like guys don't brag about killing and see it all as a big First Person Shooter, where they can drop Non-Playable Characters (AKA real life innocent human beings going about their lives as best they can in the midst of a tramautic, fucked up war) to a metal soundtrack. Can we be REAL about who goes into the military and what their personalities are like in 2012 as opposed to some fake-nostalgic vision of selfless sacrifice??
hey Chris, while I am mostly onboard with your rant, upvoted it, and certainly agree with the sentiments behind it, because you're wanting to "be REAL about who goes into the military" I'm just going to make a small point. . .
Lynndie England wasn't a "bull dyke" and in fact, was engaged to the instigator of the prisoner abuse, Charles Graner, and gave birth to his son later (though never married, of course).
I am in no way defending her, or any of those involved, but if you read a bit about her, you'll realise she wasn't the brighest individual, she enlisted while still a junior in high school. . .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynndie_England
these are the folks representing amrka around the world. . .
The guys at Haditha were exonerated.
Puppies off a cliff? I'll take your word for it, but if you knew how Iraqis thought of their dogs, you would think they thanked the americans for throwing them off the cliff.
Most who join the military are of middle class background. It's been pretty competitive to get in for a while. If you lived with a lot of troops you would see a high number of what we call nerds. I was surprised as well, even though I saw a lot of nerds twenty + years ago when I was in the military.
I have been in the military and I went to UNC (finance). Then I went to Iraq as a civilian for two and a half years. Without question I saw a higher caliber of individual(I'm sure you cringe at that word) during my time spent with military members than my eight years in the University. If colleges had the same quality of people this country would have a very bright future indeed.
As to agressiveness of troops serving in a war zone - Yes, American troops are very aggressive and highly motivated. That is why 5 troops can hold off and defeat sometimes hundreds of enemy troops. This does have a down side, but it is rare that troops commit atrocities.
Pissing on dead taliban may upset your delicate sensibilities, but shortly before they killed those poor victims, they were probably getting shot at by them. I'm guessing
US heroic freedom-bringing soldiers kill a goat with metal bat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxXbNwVE-h4
The soldier's name is studiously not given in the article. Remind you of anything?
interesting.
The Staff Sergeant is probably an Islamic Homosexual
Very funny - you should tell this joke to the parents of 9 dead children.
Waiting for better info is in order. This could be another "atrocity" of the Jena "massacre" variety.
No, it got done. Point is, if U don't want war crimes...don't have wars. And this one should have been terminated long, long ago. Increasingly, individual soldiers have no idea why they are in Afghanistan at all.
Nothing like a call to arms to bring out all the SockPuppets. Hello, SockPuppets <waving ballsack vigorously in your direction>
individual soldiers are in Afghanistan killing people because they enlisted to do so.
given that the Afghani people weren't implicated in "nine eleven" volunteering to kill them for a pay cheque gets zero sympathy from me.
((and OMG TruthInSunshine, thanks for the visual =O))
OWS is/was just a big Obama campaign rally. Implying that OWS is out there murdering or raping innocents is utterly retarded, and just gives the police state more justification to crack down on anything that even resembles independent thought.
The reality is that anyone who serves in the U.S. military is just a puppet for the financier and political elite in NYC/DC. It's a bit funny to see rural white males who talk about "conservatism" and patriotism putting their life on the line to support the agenda of a rich elite that is overwhelming socially liberal, heavily Jewish or atheist, supports globalism, wipes their ass with the U.S. Constitution and looks down on bumpkins from "flyover country." Then these same sheeple sholdiers get really really butthurt when anyone smacks them with reality.
jwoop66:
Actually, it sounds like Kerry, Murtha, Durban, debbie-waserman, etc.
Who knew?
- Ned