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American Anger: 58% Say Are "Furious About America's Politics" Compared To 49% In January, 37% Support #OWS
The Arab Spring, which yesterday claimed its first brutal televized murder, confirming that the new regime is unfortunately in no way more civilized or humane than the old one, is slowly gaining ever more traction, and those in power who think they are immune from the basest of human emotions like Gadaffi thought, even in so-called civilized countries, may be surprised to discover otherwise. According to a new AP-GfK poll, 37% of respondents back "Occupy Wall Street" and its various offshoot variants. As can be expected, "A majority of those protest supporters are Democrats, but the anger about politics in general is much more widespread, the poll indicates." What is more disturbing is that nearly two thirds of respondents are openly expressing anger with everything that is wrong in America, even if they can't quite place their affiliation with either the Tea-Party of the #OWS movement. "58 percent say they are furious about America's politics. The number of angry people is growing as deep reservoirs of resentment grip the country." The number was 49% in January - in other words it is rising with meteoric speed. And with the topic of Marxism lately quite prevalent if for purely intellectual masturbation purposes, perhaps the practical implications of Marxist "discontent" should also be considered, and the defining question becomes what will be the tipping point beyond which silent protest and peaceful occupation morphs into something far worse.
As for the actual broad sentiment, we couldn't agree more with the following statement:
"They've got reasons to be upset, they've got reasons to protest, but they're protesting against the wrong people," Jan Jarrell, 54, a retired school custodian from Leesville, S.C., says of the New York demonstrators. "They need to go to Washington, to Congress and the White House. They're the ones coming up with all the rules."
The following will come as no surprise to those who have been following the two core discontentment movements over the past years:
While the troubled economy is at the root of anger at both government and business leaders, there's a key difference. Tea party activists generally argue that government is the problem, and they advocate for free markets. The Wall Street protesters generally say that government can provide some solutions and the free market has run amok.
Of the Americans who support the Wall Street protests, 64 percent in the poll are Democrats, while 22 percent are independents and just 14 percent are Republicans. The protest backers are more likely to approve of President Barack Obama and more likely to disapprove of Congress than are people who don't support the demonstrations.
More generally, many more Americans - 58 percent - say they are furious about the country's politics than did in January, when 49 percent said they felt that way. What's more, nearly nine in 10 say they are frustrated with politics and nearly the same say they are disappointed, findings that suggest people are deeply resentful of the political bickering over such basic government responsibilities as passing a federal budget and raising the nation's debt limit.
And as Ron Paul loosely paraphrased, at the last GOP debate, another democrat before him, "it's the economy, stupid"
The protesters cite the economic crisis as a key reason for their unhappiness. The unemployment rate hovers around 9 percent nationally. Many homeowners owe more than their homes are worth. Foreclosures are rampant. And many young people - the key demographic of the protesters - can't find jobs or live on their own.
"They all have college educations, and some have advanced degrees, and they're unemployed?" says Alice Dunlap, 63, a retired speech language pathologist from Alexandria, Va. She supports the protests because, she says, anger lingers at those who profited while the nation's economy tanked.
"We all got ripped off by Wall Street, and we continue to be ripped off by Wall Street," she says. "You can look at my portfolio, if you like."
The poll found that most protest supporters do not blame Obama for the economic crisis. Sixty-eight percent say former President George W. Bush deserves "almost all" or "a lot but not all" of the blame. Just 15 percent say Obama deserves that much blame. Nearly six in 10 protest supporters blame Republicans in Congress for the nation's economic problems, and 21 percent blame congressional Democrats.
Six in 10 protest supporters trust Democrats more than Republicans to create jobs.
Most people who support the protests - like most people who don't - actually report good financial situations in their own households.
So who is the "minority" that has been targeted by the 99%? Or is it really 99.999% as BusinessWeek analyzes some of the finer nuances in what is now a full blow "poor vs rich" class war.
A better way of thinking about the Occupy Wall Street Movement, though, is to look at what happens at the very top, in the rareified upper reaches of hedge fund land. In his investigation of investment bank bonus payments for 2008, New York attorney general (and now governor) Andrew Cuomo, found that 774 employees of the top 5 investment banks took home close to $4.2 billionin bonuses. That report prompted extensive bonus rage. But here’s a more stunning number to compare it with: for the same year, the top 25 hedge fund managers reaped $10.6 billion in gains, according to Insitutional Investor’s AR Magazine. Let’s set those numbers down again:
- 774 investment bankers: $4.2 billion
- 25 top hedge fund managers: $11.6 billion
There’s more: in 2009, the top 25 hedge fund managers made $25.3 billion, and in 2010 it was $22 billion.
Measured as a proportion of the people in the top 1%, financial types might not be the biggest part. Move up to the very top, and the the share of those finance is absolutely huge. Maybe “We Are The 99.999%” is a more accurate sign, but Wall Street is the right spot for the protests. We may not be sure of just who makes up the top 1%, but who’s at the pinnacle is clear.
Still, exactly which part of the financial world is pulling in the most money is something that’s worth thinking about closely. The focus of popular anger, and of proposals for reform, have been mainly banks and bankers. But if the most outsized compensation is not, ultimately, in the big investment banks but at the hedge funds, it’s not clear that reforming the bank reform will markedly change this distribution—or resolve the central complaint of the protests.
All very good observations... and all quite moot. When the tipping point is reached, we doubt the unleashed codex of vigilante mob justice will care much to look at whether occupant of XXX Crown Lane in Greenwich put down $999,999.00 on their 1040 or added a few extra zeroes.
Just ask the Bolsheviks... Or Gaddafi.
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Nice observation. +1
But he might have worked for 5 years to get to that retirement. Let's not judge him so harshly.
This is for New York.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/School-Janitors-Can-Earn-More-Teach...
Piker. I retired at 42. Seventeen wonderful years ago.
Then I got married. Big mistake.
So, you're "retired," meaning that you're living off of others while you do nothing productive?
"Big mistake." Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's what She's saying!
furious? that's because the game is rigged.
even the cnbc stock market game is rigged; just suspended, due to... drum roll... front running
http://www.newsonnews.net/cnbc/12400-cnbc-suspends-trading-in-million-do...
Why do only 37% support OWS? The other 63% are brain dead? Or they listen to Rush? - but then I repeat myself
I thought it was worse. Brainwash media FAIL.
I'll bet it was 5% a month ago.
I could split hairs all day long about OWS. Is it an Obama front? Are they liberal hippy commies? Fuck, I don't know, but someone has to get pissed off first and create some chaos. Hopefully it will eventually head in the right direction.
It is and it isn't. The good news is that people are starting to talk about our problems. The bad news is that people are starting to talk about our problems which will inevitably lead to some fucked up resolution that will worsen our problems. Overall, I support the movement even if their anger isn't pointed in the right direction.
The real bad news is most don't know enough to define the problem.
Go public edication!
Just more smoke and obfuscation, or as Tyler is so fond of saying:
Bread and Circuses!
the bread is moldy..
and there are
no elephants at the circus
distractions won't mater soon..
True, but you don't need an official education to know when you are being screwed. In fact, being officially educated in economics seems to be a hinderance to being able to define the problems.
Overall, I support the movement even if their anger isn't pointed in the right direction.
Ever see the scene in Slapshot where the Hanson Bros are beating up the crowd, but can't quite get the right dude to punch?
"No, not him...(points) Him!"
That's what comes to mind when you state, as you do, that OWS is an uncoordinated, aimless mass of anarchists.
Overall, I support the movement even if their anger isn't pointed in the right direction.
Their anger is partially pointed in the right direction. They are right about how there is a bad relationship between government and corporations. I started finding the wrong things they are talking about 7 months ago, and then I decided to research the Fed because I heard people talking a lot about that too, and I found the problems with the banking cartel as well as the corporations. Everything everyone is saying is wrong, really is wrong. The list is long.
Yes. Chaos. Good....we all need chaos. Only Chaos can lead to Civil War and thus System Change. Jim Kunstler, over at CF Nation, has a post this week on exactly this issue - @ http://kunstler.com/blog/2011/10/going-apeshit.html.
One guys take on OWS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2qqRFYv3ao&feature=player_embedded
I get really irked when people say that OWS should not protest, but instead should boycott the corporations they are irritated with. You can't boycott Monsanto. They keep the FDA from implementing the labelling of GMO food. You also can't boycott the military industrial complex, the prison industrial complex or many medical corporations. Last, but not least, you can't boycott the Fed.
People who say that are just not getting the big picture.
Agree to a point; you'd have to be naked living in a cave somewhere these days and maybe not even then. But there are some obvious hypocrisies inherent in some of what OWS is touting. I'm not saying they are right or wrong, more power to them for being seen and heard and getting their message out so more people might wake up, but being out in front comes with the inherent risk of being an easy target for the opposition.
"but someone has to get pissed off first and create some chaos." +1,000
"Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis
and foster such a tension that a community which has
constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the
issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no
longer be ignored.... The purpose of our direct-action
program is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it
will inevitably open the door to negotiation."
"[W]e who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the
creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the
hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in
the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil
that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but
must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural
medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed,
with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light
of human conscience and the air of national opinion
before it can be cured."
- Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. "Letter From Birmingham Jail"
No mystery why he was murdered by The System.
the poll analysis numbers out of that are horrid...most "blame Busch" and want more government.
These idiots can't figure out that the government is who gave Wall St $23T to make them whole. All of these stupid marxist shits are going to have to understand that everything they think is true is actually a lie.
....and good luck with getting them to understand.
I have no hope for it.
Trav 777 and Anony : You're both wrong from my perspective.
1° COrporate kleptocracy is governement not doing its job. Its NOT socialism, its elitist feudal society. And the reply is more strong, honest government, not less. More regulation to remove those monopoly corrupt plays. To make the word 'markets' meaningful again.
2° Having a politcally alive citizenry is vital to republic. The US has lost that if it ever had it. Its time to acquire it. Its no longer an empty, resource unlimited country. Its no longer pioneer mindset country for basic population needs. It needs to educate its population. Its a question of survival. Its not a choice, its bedrock stuff. If anything the pioneer frontier is now outer space or the internet.
Here's what Conservatives understand and the Left does not want to understand: there is no such thing, given the vagaries of human nature, as "strong, honest government." You can have a strong government, but it will never be honest, because power attracts the already corrupt and corrupts the honest. Only a weak government can be honest. The Left doesn't get it, because all they care about is getting into power and - via debt-financed handouts to group entitlements, government employees, and crony capitalists - staying there. Put simply, more government------>more Fascism. Less government------>less Fascism. Take it from a (Compassionate) Fascist who knows.
Well, in no way do I even pretend that I could possibly claim to know what ANY substantial amount of diverse people could want (if I did I'd be in marketing or such), but your logic completely fails.
Only a Strong government can be corrupt? A "weak" one cannot? Do you mean that corruption can't happen in a small govt?
People toss out all sorts of statements about big and small governments, YET, there's never a true discussion of what delineates the two. I mean, is it when there's one too many people working for the govt? Or, as I suspect, one too many laws (the govt isn't the law)? If so, which laws, or which laws would be the ONLY one we should have?
Don't like govt intrusion yet want the govt to protect your "property" rights? At what point do you note when it is that the govt oversteps this "protection?" And consider that this "protection" is also against foreign intrusion: I believe that right now we've got a massive protection racket that goes by the name of Homeland Security that claims that that's exactly what is going on- hell, there's lots of bad guys out there, bad guys like Qaddafi (who borders on Marxism by not allowing his country's oil to be exploited).
I have yet to see or hear of ANY govt that has NOT, from the start, or later on, ended up oppressing its people.
It's THE PEOPLE who end up corrupting the govt in order to try and get what they want. I'm pretty sure that most here believe this. How such people can be held back from a weak govt is THE question. Productive minds will apply themselves to being productive, while the snakes will look to twist things such that They don't have to be as productive. The "productive" types just don't have the extra energy it would take to mind the store. Again, not seeing that anyone would argue with these observations.
I'm just struggling with this small-govt is possible hypothesis, and any "you have to just believe" won't cut it with me. Maintaining "property rights" etc. sounds all well and good, but achieving this w/o also getting an oppressive govt doesn't seem possible. DISCLAIMER: I am NOT in favor of any BIG govt (remember, always, I'm the person tossing about "BIG=FAIL!" ad infinitum!).
Well, Seer, I AM in Marketing, and let me tell you what most people want. They want you to lie to them. Yep. It's a fact. A senior level merchandising exec for one of the largest Depatment srores still standing explained it to me years ago. That's why the real price of almost everything thing they sell is at least 50% off....but that's another topic.
What is important is the concepts of government that you raise. No matter how we might try, large groups of people will have governments. The true issue is how will we control it?
I am not claiming to know the answer. However, I am confident that we as a society are about to undergo some profound changes, and the answer to that question will mean everything. Will our current Constitution and Bill Of Rights actually prevail...or, will our pitiful stewardship of Liberty allow the relentless march to Fascism continue? Or maybe it will even worse. Technology is driving us evermore rapidly to some mix between '1984' and 'Brave New World'. There is a financial tryrant lurking in the shadows, with powers of both intimate information about almost everything, and unlimited money.....and this power is worldwide. Just imagine the marriage of all your banking info with constant tracking by Google. You would essentially have no secrets; no privacy. Do you have a smart phone? What will tomorrow's tech mean for the power to control?
How do we fight back? When do we fight back? Do we fight back?....or just go to the "Feelies" ;-))
That is what US citizens want, not most people.
US citizenism has imposed on the world the commercial relationship.
The buyer wants to be seduced, wants to feel a sense of matter, wants to believe he/she is the center of the world, the saler wants to sell the stuff.
It is wrong to tell that most people want to be lied to.
US citizens want that.
You can believe whatever you like, but the facts argue against you.
A sizzling marketing campaign works in any language, and MOST people with disposable incomes are not immune. Price is a primary motivator. That is what haggling is all about, but at the end of the day, the seller must have his profit. The seller can name a price and refuse to budge...and too often lose the sale. Or, the seller can inflate the true price, and you can negotiate until the real price is discovered. People will tell you that they would prefer the first scenario...but the numbers prove that it is the second one that drives the most sales. You think all the money spent by advertisers is just for fun? I can assure you, it is not, and that some very sophisticated analysis has taken place to direct those funds in a way to generate max returns. They know more about what motivates you than you know about yourself.
It needs to educate its population.
Why does this seem to become a priority when there is a crisis? Why are people not already educated? The info is out there, and always has been, for the taking. I hope like heck the educating isn't coming from the OWS anarchists / indiscriminate rage crowd.
Speaking of stupid, you haven't figured out that the government is bought and paid for by Wall St. Thus the original sin isn't in Washington.
But keep calling them words that you don't really understand (ike "marxist). That'll help
Let's just call it 'Wallshington DC(Duopoly of Corruption)' and call it even? I need another beer...
Listen, you idiot...do you REALLY expect the government to then rein in Wall Street if Wall Street owns them?
The gov't SOLD ITSELF. Without PROTECTION from the gov't most of Wall St would now be GONE. Without protection from the gov't The Fed would have COLLAPSED.
Give people the freedom to choose by getting the GOVERNMENT out of the business of providing legal protection at the point of a gun to the machinations of these confettiers.
The original SIN *IS* with the person who ACCEPTED the bribe, not with he who offered it.
Your intellectual superiority is so overwhelming! All those OWS people don't know of course that government is owned by WS, only you and 98% of ZH posters know it. They're just plain stupid. Is that what you are really thinking?
who cares what they KNOW if they cannot SOLVE?
Further empowering government ad hoc is NOT going to solve the problem! The government needs to be STARVED of its revenue and shrunk. Only THEN will it not attract the type of people drawn to large sums of money.
You hear the call for true democracy from OWS frequently if you watch videos of them. That is what the Indignants in Spain are also protesting for, and in Spain I know that means participatory democracy. Where the people have the ability to write laws and to abolish laws given to them by their politicians.
For now the OWS protesters have only listed that they want money out of campaigns, and want publicly funded elections to stop the politicials from being bought. They have also listed rules about politicians not getting to work for corporations that they regulated for years after their public service is over.
If they do follow where the Indignants are going though, they would want to add some participatory democracy to the government which would be even more powerful at keeping the politicians honest. When the people can strike down the laws, the politicians end up being more careful about what goes in the laws. You can see this in Switzerland, which has the most participatory democracy of any Western nation.
I know that whenever I bring up participatory democracy a few arguments come back at me. One is the argument that the people just vote themselves things. Switzerland is more conservative than most nations without participatory democracy, and they usually only use their initiative process to pass conservative laws. California has it, and some very good things have come of it, namely prop 13 and the legalization of medical marijuana. Both things which took power away from the state, rather than giving more to the state. Prop 13, is where there are limits to how much the property taxes can be raised to protect from people being taxed out of their houses. So, you see, the liberal politicians in California deliver too much liberalism. But, the people with their participatory democracy actually take power away from the state.
The other argument is that participatory democracy did not work when tried in the past. However, in the ancient times when it was used, only military men were allowed to vote, so it is not so terribly surprising that it fell apart through too much warring. Switzerland is the western country with the most participatory democracy, and it is doing pretty well with it. Libya massively tried participatory democracy too. But it is unclear how much participatory democracy they had. They had the revolutionary council at the top still, supposed to be temporary, but never went away.
Anyway, I think the call would be for just some participatory democracy added to the system like Switzerland and California. I don't think the call would be for complete participatory democracy like Libya was trying to implement. As an interesting fact, participatory democracy was added to California to combat the railroads running the California government, so it has been used before to stop the bad relationship between corporations and government.
Stinky, smelly, hippie, Marxist, Commie, yada, yada. Trav speaks and claims to know all about #OWS. Denninger is wrong, Mish is wrong, etc. And, above all, do not go to the streets in dissent. You have a bad contrarian streak, that probably won't serve you well in the future, if you plan on getting along with anyone.
You didn't just appeal to Fish and Douchinger for authority, did you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ah, once again someone painting in broad strokes claims supperiority.
One need only rant about Marxism in order to get a green arrow. Not like you need any logic to back anything up.
Go ahead folks, continue salavating that you can kick some commie ass. McCarthy (and the MIC) would be proud!
NOTE: I advocate for ZERO GOVT. So, fuck you and your stupid-assed "if only capitalism were allowed to be pure and we could have just enough govt to keep us rich fucks' 'property' safe" as the salvation to mankind's problems BS fantasy. Both extremes are about as pathetic as it can get. And, BOTH will only lead us over the growth cliff.
Agreed zero govt would be fantastic, but as I'm sure you are aware of it only works when the rest of the world agrees to follow suit simultaneoulsly. Otherwise, well good luck protecting your land and your family from some other monopoly of power coming and taking it. So, the question really is how much govt? IMHO it seems more state power would be a good start as it would divide the monopoly of power more competitively. Then we should probably start to downsize the federal govt but that's where I haven't a clue as to how much it too little and how much is too much. Enough to have a protectionary military but how bout we stop invading countries. Military stike hits the country, how do we know it's not a false flag? All states come together and investigate, vote and then act?
Fuck if I know, at this point I'm beyond in over my head but this is just one question that needs to be figured out. Is it any wonder the OWS don't have any demands. Would anyone feel better if they had demands in place after a month, would that mean they're really understanding the complexity of the situation? My guess would be they wouldn't have a clue. End the FED, okay and then what? This process of restructing govt will last years and the OWS protests will probably follow suit.
<moved>
To Canadia, I hope.
Yes, I meant Canadia, dammit! Canadiastan is too cumbersome.
Here is Peter Schiff wrangling with the OWS, pretty good, they aren't all anti-capitalists.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18000013
I used to read Schiff all the time - up until he ran for the Republican Senate seat.
Then he became a tea party Republican (note the big "R" and the small "t" and "p").
It's too bad. He used to make a lot of sense.
How can you read schiff all the time. He says the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over.
He thinks staying on message means he has to be completely brain dead.
come on now, Peter is a bit narcissistic but he was another one predicting the impending doom upon America, he's one of the good guys or at least one of the honest ones.
My rule is you can either be arrogant or you can be incompetent.
Shiff is definitely arrogant, he is also clearly competent.
Krugman is definitely arrogant, he is also clearly incompetent.
I like my rule, it's simple and it works.
That still doesn't mean that just because he has a faint clue about what is happening he'll come out of the other side of the tunnel with anything more valuable than a what the fuck just happened look on his face. He may be a genious simply through his intuition but he's got no freaking brain power to turn it into any sort of expression that can be valuable to others.
It still doesn't make him wrong. But it does make him highly confusable and flappable when it's the most dangerous time to be flapping. I just hope his clients know how to pick up on it when he inevitably transmutates into cluelessness.
But yes he is a "good" guy. But if I'm going to deal with arrogance. I'll take's reggies this aint my first barbeque barbeque sauce arrogance any day.
You got my green! I feel the same way. His performance during that campaign blew his cover ... it was disgraceful, demeaning and indicative of a serious narcissist.
But does Rush listen to himself?
Boy ain't that sumthin"? They're furious. But not enough to throw out their own members in the Senate, and the House. are they?
Much Ado about nuthin', Sound and Fury signifying nuthin'.
The voters are more and more responsible for the past and ongoing crises the longer and longer they keep the same men and women in power.
They know nothing!
well maybe they are pissed because they have begun to realize that throwing out the current bums does no good as the next set of bums immediately picks up where the last set left off.... banker whores.
Don't expect miracles. If they don't throw out the old incumbents, the newbies don't stand a chance.
Schumer, Frank, (Dodd got it in the neck finally), Kennedy, Boxer, Waxman, MCconnell, Hatch, Byrd, and all the others who spent 20-40 years did all the damage, and the ones remaining will still win reelection.
It won't be accomplished in one cycle, ESPECIALLY if the Ya-hoos keep those men and women in office.
They must be gotten rid of then the newbies can change the paradigm.
Gee, nothing like loading it up with Dems. Your party hat is showing!
All you people who vote for ANY clown (which would be anyone runnnig) ARE THE PROBLEM. You all just encourage this fucking behavior.
You're not going to vote for Ron Paul if you have the chance?
You play by the rules, work hard, do everthing thr right way, and you get sodomized by the powerful 1%. Yes, I would say we are pissed.
Like they care if you are pissed. The only thing that will make them change is when they FEAR you. THAT's what you have to do to make them care.
Got any stragedy to do that?
Yup. Stop letting them scare you. Fear freezes the brain and survival instincts take over. Logic and rational thinking are thrown out the window.
Return to your own source of strength and personal power and start thinking for yourself (I know many already do on this site). A place to start could be removing anger and resentment from the past, healing old wounds.
Get away from the programming used through mainstream media, movies , video games, etc.
Start interacting and being involved with other people in a respectful and meaningful way.
Yup. They won't know what to do when we no longer build all their shit and grow their food for them. It's like a big fucking strike. We should just all walk away from the system. What are they going to do? They have no concept of how to react in such instances. If they try to force us then their hand is played and they open themselves up to annihilation.
Careful, however, because 2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less. We TOO are, by comparison, The Rich: won't behoove anyone to flaunt any wealth.
Follow them home.. Then mail them a picture of their house..
signed.
expect us.
V
What department of the government are you from?? I Have played my life in the system, by the law, why do you want to egg us on? Who are you?
Can you buy KY with an EBT card?
Yes.
But you can't buy CONgress. They have standards.
Even if all the EBT cards say JPMorgan on the back?
The reactions against Washington will coalesce as the economy futher erodes.
Yes, but Washington is getting its defenses up...
Do not be deceived, God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. Galatians 6:7
"A man reaps what he sows."
If only that were true in a single lifetime. I notice Reagan passed in peace and with respect as will Kissinger, Greenspan and other criminals too numerous to mention.
You ignorant F^^K: Reagan freed hundreds of millions of people from neo-slavery: Communist corporate states using Berlin Walls, Iron Curtains and Gulags. Yeah, I know, you're too young to remember and a product of the current Ministry of Dumbing Out and Demoralization, aka the Dept. of Education. The 2 Jews? Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
A man reaps what he owes?
Oh, yeah, right, Reagan single-handedly defeated the Soviet Empire!
Your dumb-ass commie-haters' story is so fraught with holes that you could drive the 1st Marine Division through it.
If the Soviet System was so crappy, as people suggest (and I TOTALLY agree), then how the fuck could it have taken over the world? Bad systems do NOT work, and therefore they cannot survive!
We were all played by the MIC. It was about controlling the US population more than "defeating communism."
The Soviet Union collapsed due to its own incompetency (as a system): yes, the US helped it over-spend its way to its death, but this was inevitable, and given the debt legacy (not to mention MIC) that the US was saddled with, I'd hardly claim that the US "won" this "war:" sorry, the books aren't closed yet (still pumping money into several former Soviet satellite countries to protect nukes). This will be the same fate of the US, just as it has and always will be for EVERY empire.
Riddle me this: How come the CIA didn't even see the fall of the Soviet Union? And yet here you are identifying the actions of a senile, abuser of the US Constitution, Edward Bernays blow-up doll of a washed up Hollywood actor as being THE reason?
Lech Walesa did more to shake up the Soviet grip than Reagan could ever have dreamed (assuming he really was serious about this rather than just helping POWER build up).
Your tale is an insult to intelligence and logic.
+1 for your ability to use basic logic. Something Reagan-worshippers lack for some reason
Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall. LOL
And why did Ronnie want an end to communism? Was it for the people or for the banks who told him what to do?
I prefer James 5:1
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for the miseries that are coming upon you...
If the EPA allows it. God fergot that part.
IMHO the OWS protests are too fragmented. Mainstream media ignores them, so it's like little circle jerks in every major city that largely go ignored. Too bad we can't round up all the people from each city and send them to DC or NY.
Come on, people! The MSM NEVER sides with those challenging authority to which it is beholden! To expect otherwise is to miss history's lessons.
Numbers don't count. Further, revolutions are in the mind. Once you see them materialize in the flesh it's just a formality.
The System's dead. The "revolution" has ALREADY happened.
We are, in effect, marking this event for our own edification. It's the tree falling in the woods thing: doesn't matter if anyone heard it, it STILL fell!
IMHO the OWS protests are too fragmented. Mainstream media ignores them, so it's like little circle jerks in every major city that largely go ignored. Too bad we can't round up all the people from each city and send them to DC or NY.
And yet the number of people who support them keeps going up.
We're angry that we are in all these FAKE wars!
The people dying are not FAKE, the people fighting them are not FAKE, the people who got us into them and the reasons they gave ARE FAKE...
"Fake wars"? Tell that to the families of the dead soldiers.
The Bernank sock puppet Yellen is tipping off the QE 3 plan....er, excuse.
Occupy the Fed !
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-21/fed-s-yellen-says-qe3-may-be-warranted-if-more-easing-needed-for-stimulus.html
dismantel it and put up a parking lot.
Easy Solution: Constitution verbatim
Yeah, funny that when the Ballot Box is rigged, the Jury Box is filled with picked members, there is only one Box left.
And they contain Cu/Ni, Pb, Cu, fulminate of mercury and cordite.
How much more uptick in percentage points before the boiling point is reached?
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -Thomas Jefferson
"what will be the tipping point beyond which silent protest and peaceful occupation morphs into something far worse."
This is unrealistic in this country unless the state steps up police action. Baring that it will be settled reasonably civilly here. I would not bet on the prospects in Greece, Spain or Italy though. They have a history of radical change and they don't fear vast civil disturbance the way we do.
Who's this WE?
Maybe he meant Wii, or perhaps oui?
You should have lived throgh the period 1966 through 1971 in America or at least have had the courtesy to have read about it. Things only got really nasty in response to direct murder on the part of the police departments (particularlly the Chicago police) and the national guard in various states, except in the South where the violence was against the Feds enforcing the newly passed anti-discrimination laws. By most standards though we (the American public) are pretty tame. Nevertheless things did change and the violence was relatively minimal compared to the history of France, Italy, Spain and so on.
and Nixon won.....
until he really lost it all...WG, WH, VN and Bretton Woods.
and America lost....
"what will be the tipping point beyond which silent protest and peaceful occupation morphs into something far worse."
Silent protests and peaceful occupations are as mythical as unfettered capitalism. Protesters don't intend to be peaceful...
what an ugly bitch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hbENCmVMc0
She's shooting for a heart attack. That weight, blood pressure, and cholesterol level must be in the "Epic Fail", zone.
But yes, she isn't very attractive. Spiritually or physically.
She's got to be a real goddess to the Rosie O'donnell, and Roseanne Barr butch lesbians though.
In that vidio you see whats wrong, so very wrong with America.
Hillary this is your resposibility Baby - rules written for the position you now hold ...
From the moment you are captured you have certain rights. Even before you are taken to a prisoner-of-war camp, these rights are in effect.
You must be humanely treated at all times.
Reprisals against you are not permitted. You cannot be punished for what somebody else has done.
You must be protected against insult or acts of violence by enemy military or civilians.
If you are wounded or sick, you are entitled to the same medical care as a member of the enemy's Army.
The enemy must clothe, feed, and shelter you.
You are a prisoner of war, not a criminal.
Shall I hold my breath that a charge for the War crime that was committed will ever be pushed by your bloated carcass-------- I would not waste my breath
Her comments are fucking ghoulish. Sounded like an absolute psychopath.
She's evil.
"She's evil incarnate."
"the top 5 investment banks took home close to $4.2 billionin bonuses"
End the non-Federal non-Reserve and all the other privately owned central banks around the world. JP Morgan and Morgan Stanley are big shareholders in the non-Federal non-Reserve but the general public will never be offered a share. Their website in section 7 states that stockholders receive an annual dividend of 6% as a profit for providing a paper currency. Teach yourself about the Austrian school of economics and you will understand we have centrally planned economies not free market.
http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/section7.htm
I wonder how much 6% was in dollar terms. The public will never know how much they are being robbed by these people.
The non-Federal non-Reserve welcomes you to your destitution after 100 years of paying out an annual dividend of 6% to their mega-bank owners while having a .gov website. When you consider that Americans, both ‘democratic/labour’ and ‘republican/conservative’, before 1913 were never subject to this transfer of their wealth to the mega-banks you have to ask yourself how much less poor would the American general public be today without it and how much less warfare the world would have been spared.
I found a list of the stockholdings that had been posted in 1983 I think on http://www.usavsus.info/
I took pictures from the video but ZH cannot accept files in its posts.
I am sure you will not be surprised to learn that it is exclusively international banks.
Bankers Trust Company.
Bank of New York.
Chase Manhattan Bank.
Chemical Bank.
Citibank.
European American Bank & Trust.
J. Henry Schroders Bank & Trust.
Manufacturers Hanover.
Morgan Guaranty Trust.
Associations between Wall Street international bankers and the rise of both Hitler and Naziism in Germany and Lenin and Bolshevikism in Ruusia.
Check out http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/wall_street/chapter_12.htm
The same guys profited from bankrolling both sides of the European theatre of World War 2 – that is really, really special.
Once the grassroots of both the ‘democratics/labourites’ and ‘republicans/conservatives’ recognise who their common enemy is, it’s all over for the oligarchial 0.01%
The scam has been going on for more than a century and us, our children, our grandchildren will all be debt slaves to Wall Street international bankers.
Check out http://dev.republicoftheunitedstates.org/what-is-the-republic/history/
americans are furious, huh?
well there are 5 stages of loss:
1) denial
2) anger
3) bargaining
4) depression
5) acceptance
we are in stage 2 apparently.
6) action
I half agree.
I think you are right in that we are only in stage 2 - anger.
But I don't think we have to go to stage 5. At some point people are going to want Justice, not acceptance.
2a) Revolt.
end.
http://www.hark.com/clips/rnhqrfsfzd-know-his-limitations
Yeah, all you "Furious About America's Politics" peoples! Rise up!
FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP FAAP
The giant sucking sound you hear is your money going to Wall Street via Washington DC.
Oh, I thought that Bwarney was under a desk somewhere...
melbourne, australia "occupy" arrests...........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pweOMUSozFY&feature=player_embedded
Damn.. you posted that as I was typing.
+1 for being a quicker draw
They need to be careful with those kind of tactics.
For everyone brutalised they have added 10.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrRZBVqioeU
Things hotting up in Australia
Things to note:
#1 Queen is in town, thus the rush to remove the commoners
#2 Herald Sun has been pro-Police / business so far, as has most of Murdoch press
#3 All very tame, but Australia is 'shocked' by the 'over-reaction' and 'violence' (srsly)
Tie that into the currency finally breaking against the rest of the world (comment here: "Surprised it lasted so long") & their own housing bubble.. hmm. Things getting hotter down under, with summer to come.1
Meta-reply: what protests? A bunch of morons that don't know what a bullet is?
too bad that they took away all the guns down in Oz.
I wonder at what point will the police, everywhere, realize that they are on the wrong side.
But gun control worked in Oz! Here's the link......
(empty)
Wall Street and the bankers own the political system.
Nothing is going to change until people at the grass roots start saying "I'm mad as hell and I'm going to move my money to a S&L!".
Also, close down any credit cards that you have with TBTF banks.
Does anyone recordnize the damage done to this country by the media? The fucking electra is so stupid it is blaming Bush for the 5 Trillion Obama/Bernanke and Geithner gave to the gangsters on Wall Street at the expense of main street. What a mess this country is.
A full 20% of the national debt is directly attributable to the war in Iraq and another 10% to the tax cuts. Further, it was under Bush that the banks (starting with Goldman Sachs) were allowed to eliminate their fiduciary obligations to their clients via contractural codicle. True Obama is a co-conspirator as he has done nothing about any of that but to hold Bush II harmless displays vast ignorance.
Regardless of who "started it"... and it goes back a long ways but was certainly made significantly worse with the W....
.... the O has done absolutely nothing to Fix The Fucking Problems... only entrenched them all deeper and far worse.
If John Q. Public wants a friend in Washington, he'd best be thinking about the State, not the DC.
Get a rat.
A Republican congress and a Democratic president were responsible for Gramm-Leach-Bliley which destroyed our banking system. W did nothing until the system imploded, at which point he leaped in to bail out the banks.
Obama and the Democrats had a supermajority and could have reregulated the banks if they had been so inclined, but they did nothing of substance.
We don't have two political parties in the US. There is just one: the Banker's party. It does come in two shades: bluish and pinkish (for people who are fashion conscious).
+100, Senior.
Exactly! Why is this concept so hard for some people to accept? It's as plain as the nose on your face.
...but...but...but Bush started the Fed!
War is always a convenient unemployment reservoir.
Actually you forgot the man most responsible for the current mess - Greenspan.
And lest you forget, Cain thinks Greeny is the man...
When the government no longer can borrow to sustain the food stamp program is when riots will hit the U.S. You got over 43 million people on food assistance. When the debit card is empty on that 3rd day of whatever month and year it happens, watch what happens when huge minority populations in the urban areas can no longer eat.
Snake Pliskin where are you?
http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/TTO/Programs/Phoenix.aspx
Comment: Reagan at work, militarising space under the aegis of 'recycling' older satellites. Having a semi-autonomous scavenger in orbit reconfiguring old satellites... what could possibly go wrong?1 Rising from the ashes, indeed - which ashes though? 2015 target date, means 3 years to 'fire it up'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07rZggtSw30&feature=related
Skynet is already watching and targetting....
Dude, we make plenty of new satellites in China now, recycling is for hippie loosers and Al Whore. Maybe these are as awesome as the virus infected Predator drone system, and they will all crash and reboot in unison in 2015.
The real story about predator drones is how the mark II's used hacked targeting software (which caused a law suit, which forced someone somewhere to demand IBM buy out both parties) which is inaccurate... by approx 100'.
But that's a different windmill...
Only 37% support OWS?
Damn, they can't even convince all the Goobermint check recipients.
Pretty sure the locals in places such as Gary, Indiana who are targets of SAP [or SNAP or whatever it is called now, probably FUCKED] can't afford the bus fare to an urban centre that holds such protests... and if they could, I'll give you 10-1 odds Greyhound et al suddenly escalate roadside 'terrorist' checks by a factor of 50.
Or did you miss the whole VIPR thang? Proles travel via coach or rail, they don't use GV's.
So, you are saying the survey is crap because that wonderful Dodge Viper ran over it?
While I love Mad Max, I feel you're intentionally missing the point.
Here's a thought experiment: VIPR / TSA get your surname, and hilariously connect it to the wrong guy (in prison, as we've discussed previously). How do you think that's going to end up?
So the cop says: Oh, so you're the infamous criminal Mynhair, eh?
Mynhair says: Oh no, he's in prison.
Case solved.
You forgot the entire "after being held without a lawyer for 24 hours and one intrusive search later"...
... a broken paw for reisting stroking fur backwards and partially dry shaved all over sensitive body parts looking for biological Lyme disease carrying ticks...
BTW. If they were decent human beings, instead of dry shaving people they'd use...
Nad's Men's Hair Removal System
www.amazon.com/Nads-No-Heat-Hair-?Removal-Gel/dp/B000JUUBJ6
I kind of like some of Mynhair's comments but damn it is a cat.
butt, lol
Does ZH now develop a social conscience to match its trading acumen?
Amen to that, GW and WB7 now don't beat the only drums.
Society has always been checks and balances. THe powerful have every reason to be, sincerely not cynically, the MOST socially conscious, as their livelyhood, ability to enjoy what they like to do as prime movers, depends on ensuring that those in lower echelons always attain access to minimal social requirements. The current cycle has seen the systematic destruction of that social link between top and bottom, cement of a republic, and sermon amongst all men that they are not only equal in death but also in life, before the law, in the polling booth, before each other as humans and through taxation ensuring common nation building.
Western society has totally lost that, maybe as reaction to the 60s era where governments focused on social entitlement legislation. Its time to balance society once again and learn from both experiences : no free spending welfare state, no corporate oligarchy full of monopoly plays; just an equitable society, with balanced budgets and free access to fair markets for all.
More fabled past. US citizens love their fabled past.
The 'free' spending welfare state was never free: it was built thanks to the wealth that was extracted from the exterior. Nothing much different from maffiosi who run racket business and give money to fund a hospital. By the way, it is higly possible maffiosi learned that trick from US citizens.
When the exterior is drained too much, the system of entitlements, all of them, is overstrained.
The US has only been a story of entitlements. All men have never been equal before the law, in the polling booth, before eahc other as humans in the US world order.
On the contrary, the US has brought more divisions, more layers in human kind, has forced a hierarchy among them so to make possible to organize a transfer of wealth from bottom to top, top constituted by US citizens.
Alas, US citizens are totally addicted to their own propaganda. They cant live without it. Even when exposed numerous times, they will keep using it.
But what? The US citizen nature is eternal and denial is part of their nature.
Time to que the anti-capitalist crowd who never studied but overvalue themselves. When you took the easy way out and didn't study math and sciences; there was no way you could become an engineer- so live knowing you cheated yourself. Stop blaming capitalism and blame the government that not only paid for these idiots to breed, but paid for their worthless degrees and their homes they didn't deserve or earn.
The unemployment rate is 4% for engineers. Live with your life choices you gravy trainers!
I've noticed that a great percentage of American infrastructure is dilapidated, missing or hopelessly out of date. Huge amounts of roads, bridges, rail and so forth falling apart (or being stolen for scrap).
What the fuck are you engineers doing these days? Back in the day, you were like http://www.americaswetlandresources.com/background_facts/detailedstory/M... or sending Men to the Moon. Now you're all like building skyscrapers that fall down when a building next door burns through its steel and collapses...
Seriously. What the fuck are modern engineers doing?
Modern engineers are making weapons.
Designing iPods, cell phones, HDTV systems, routers, automotive radar, etc.
Naaaah
Lead man at apple, worth $128 mil, and enshrined by S. Jobs to never answer to anyone ain't an engineer. He's a designer:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/10/21/steve_jobs_left_designer_j...
As for weapons, well... the black project list in DC isn't run by engineers, they get routinely fucked by suits and CEOs looking for profit, even as they labour under the unrealistic expectations of their masters. Mantra: build a great presentation to get us the gig, and if it goes tits up, well...