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America's Demographic Cliff: The Real Issue In The Coming, And All Future Presidential Elections

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In four months the debate over America's Fiscal cliff will come to a crescendo, and if Goldman is correct (and in this case it likely is), it will probably be resolved in some sort of compromise, but not before the market swoons in a replica of the August 2011 pre- and post-debt ceiling fiasco: after all politicians only act when they (and their more influential, read richer, voters and lobbyists) see one or two 0's in their 401(k)s get chopped off. But while the Fiscal cliff is unlikely to be a key point of contention far past December, another cliff is only starting to be appreciated, let alone priced in: America's Demographic cliff, which in a decade or two will put Japan's ongoing demographic crunch to shame, and with barely 2 US workers for every retired person in 2035, we can see why both presidential candidates are doing their darnedest to skirt around the key issue that is at stake not only now, be every day hence.

Sadly, the market which due to central-planner meddling, has long lost its discounting capabilities, and is now merely a reactive mechanism, will ignore this biggest threat to the US financial system until it is far too late. After all it is the unsustainability of America's $100+ trillion in underfunded welfare liabilities that is the biggest danger to preserving the American way of life, and will be the sticking point in the presidential election in 80 days. However, don't expect either candidate to have a resolution to the demographic catastrophe into which America is headed for one simple reason. There is none. 

The problem in a nutshell: the first wave of Baby Boomers, born between the years of 1946 and 1964, officially reached retirement age in 2011. There are a whole lot of Baby Boomers - just under 76 million, to be exact - that will depend on new money flowing into the system to help keep the entitlements coming. According to the latest Social Security and Medicare Board of Trustees 2012 Annual Reports Social Security now pays out more than it takes in, and is expected to do so for the next 75 years. 

And while the market, and its "discounting" may now be largely irrelevant, those who care to be educated about the facts behind America's Demographic Cliff, here is ConvergEx and "Talkin' 'bout your generation"

According to the Census Bureau’s Current Population Survey, about 40.2 million people – 13% of the entire US population – are 65 years or older and eligible to receive government entitlements such as Medicare and Social Security. At current levels, spending on these entitlements make up about 8.7% of GDP – about $1.3 trillion. While this may sound sustainable over the short term, in coming years the amount of entitlement outlays necessary to keep up with retiring Baby Boomers is going to send spending through the roof. By 2030, for example, a full 19.3% of the population will be claiming SSI and Medicare benefits, based on the Census Bureau’s population projections (the CB uses an adjustment factor for the age cohorts based on mortality rates, foreign-born immigration, and life expectancy). For simplicity’s sake, here’s a decade-by-decade look at where the aging population – and expenditures – will be in the years to come, courtesy of the Census Bureau and the Congressional Budget Office (CBO):

  • In 1900, 4.1% of the US population was 65+. By 1950, this number had almost doubled to 8.1%. As the chart following the text shows, the Baby Boomers (now ages 48-66) represent the most significant population wave in US history. According to the CBO, the population aged 65 and over will increase by 87% over the next 25 years as Baby Boomers enter retirement, compared to an increase of only 12% in those aged 20-64.
  • This year, 13% of the US population is 65+ and entitlement spending accounts for 8.7% of GDP. And that number only includes SSI and Medicare, not Medicaid and future Obamacare subsidies which add to these outlays.
  • In 10 years (2022): 16.1% of the population will be 65+, entitlement spending estimated at 9.6% ($1.5 trillion, based on 2011 US GDP)
  • 2037 (25 years on): 20 % of the US population will be 65+, entitlement spending estimated at 12.2% of GDP ($2.0 trillion)
  • Not surprisingly, there will be far more women than men in the 65+ population. Women currently live about five years longer than their male peers, on average. Accordingly, the Census Bureau estimates that in 2030, there will be about 8 million more women than men that are 65 and older by 2030: 27.8 million versus 35.7 million.

It’s a pretty tough picture, to say the least; as the population ages, we’re looking at more and more money dedicated to retirement benefits with a smaller workforce to fund the spending. We’re not the only ones, either: Japan is in worse shape than the US, with 23.1% of the population already over 65. In 2050, government statistics forecast that number to be 39.6%. Europe’s in the same boat: 17.4% of the population in EU countries was 65+ in 2010, and it’s expected to be about 30% by 2060. The developed world, essentially, is facing a demographic “Fiscal cliff” with no clear-cut strategies for how to fund the liabilities inherent in an entirely predictably aging population

Are there any social positives that might mitigate this plethora of indisputable financial concerns?  The math is the math, as quants are fond of saying, so I don’t expect that there are overwhelming offsets to the problem of an aging population.  But there are some notable “Positives” which don’t get the attention they deserve because they offer such a lightweight counterbalance to the challenges I outlined above.  Still, here are a few thoughts:

  1. Stronger voter turnout/greater engagement in the political process. The 65+ age group has beaten out every other age cohort in voter turnout in every Presidential and Congressional election since 1980. In the latest presidential election, 68.1% of those aged 65+ went to the polls, versus and average of 51.2% for the rest of the voting-age population. The reason for this differential is straightforward: it easier for retired persons to vote given fewer time restrictions, allowing the higher turnout rate. But given an average turnout of 58.2% overall in 2008 for Obama’s election, compared to an average of 70-80% in other developed countries (Japan, Germany, Canada, Spain), the growing 65+ population will certainly help the U.S. come closer to its developed country peers on this metric.

    The stronger turnout of these voters, and their sheer numbers, are also likely to have an important impact on US political races in the years to come. They’re going to be the biggest voting bloc in American history, if patterns hold: 68% of them is almost 52 million, larger than the entire Black/African American voter population, for example. And like other older generations, according to a study by the Pew Research Center done in late 2011, Boomers have become slightly more conservative as they’ve aged, and slightly more of them (45% vs. 51%) intend to vote for Governor Romney in the upcoming election. However, given that one of their main concerns is the maintenance of entitlement spending, it seems unlikely that Boomers will continue to support a party that recommends reducing the deficit by cutting entitlements. All candidates, then, and especially the GOP, will need to take a hard look at the wants and needs of the Boomers. The 2012 Presidential election – and many others afterwards - will quite literally depend on their votes. 

  2. Lower crime rates. The younger population is by far the more crime-prone age cohort, according to the Department of Justice and the FBI Uniform Crime report. The DOJ publishes an annual report on arrests by age, the first occurring in 1980 and the latest in 2009. Over these years, the number of total arrests has increased by 30.9% for the entire population; for the 65+ population, it’s gone up 0.3%. Moreover, the Baby Boomer generation (in 2009, ages 45-53) accounted for only about 7% of all crimes. What were their most “Popular” crimes? Drunkeness and DUI. Violent crimes are almost exclusively the MO of the 18-29 cohort, who account for almost half (44%) of all arrests. It’s not too far of a stretch, then, to think that as our population ages, we can expect less and less violent crime across the country – though you may want to be careful on the roads.
  3. Lower resource consumption. The older population tends to cut down on resource consumption after retirement, particularly in the case of gasoline. Once they no longer need to commute to work and move into smaller, more affordable houses, the amount of fuel needed for transportation and heating/cooling should drop, perhaps significantly.

    Take motor gasoline usage as a benchmark. Just under 60 million Baby Boomers consider themselves a part of the labor force, according to BLS data. 85% of all Americans drive to work, according to a late 2010 Gallup poll, with an average commute of 30 miles round-trip – about 45 minutes – and an average of 20mpg (courtesy of the Bureau of Transportation Statistics). Using these estimates, we can calculate that the average Baby Boomer commuter uses about 33 gallons of gas each month; assuming that 85% of them drive every day, that’s about 1.7 billion gallons of gas being used per month.  As they retire, there are actually fewer new entrants into the workforce to replace them, meaning fewer drivers and less fuel consumption.

  4. Growing domestic service economy. An older population becomes more and more dependent on services as they age, particularly in the realms of healthcare and transportation. More and more people will be needed to fill the void in these service areas as the Boomers retire. Luckily for the US workforce, these are jobs that can’t be outsourced: healthcare especially depends on on-site care and personal service.

    In fact, as the population has begun to age, the US has already seen some steady growth in service-related positions. The BLS’s Occupational Employment data logs the number of occupations across the US in major industry sectors as well as almost 800 detailed occupations. According to the survey, the US has seen a -3.3% drop in job growth overall. Healthcare and “Personal Care”, however, have grown 13% and 11% each since that year. Occupations such as physician’s assistants, pharmacy technicians, and home health aides are in high demand, and will most likely continue to be so as the population ages and begins to rely more heavily on these services.

  5. Declining unemployment and increased labor force participation for this segment of the workforce. One of the most unique aspects of today’s aging population is their continued presence in the workforce. According to the BLS, 23.4% of Americans age 65+ were in the labor force as of June 2012, making up a full 4.5% of the total civilian labor force. They also had a below-average unemployment rate of 6.9%. If this trend continues, we’re likely to see more productivity from the upper end of the age spectrum in years to come as Boomers delay retirement in favor of working.

    On the flip side, as more of the aging population retires and leaves the workforce, more job opportunities will open up for those who are currently unemployed. The youngest members of the workforce, ages 18-24, will be the biggest beneficiaries of this shift, as they typically seek the same kind of jobs that the older population currently occupies. When these positions are vacated by the older group, then, and refilled by the younger groups, we may see a decline in youth unemployment rates.

    The older workforce also opens an interesting opportunity for some employers. The younger half of the Baby Boomer generation is tech-savvy, experienced, and definitely needs the money. This set of skills won’t go unnoticed in the labor market.

Unfortunately, these societal “benefits” are only a thin silver lining on a very, very dark cloud. Social Security and Medicare spending are projected to grow exponentially as healthcare costs explode and the biggest population wave in the history of the US starts to enter retirement. The Congressional Budget Office expects spending to increase by 150% over the next 25 years, which is hardly sustainable with barely 2 workers for every retired person in 2035... there’s a storm a comin’

Sources here:

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/06-05-Long-Term_Budget_Outlook.pdf
http://www.census.gov/prod/2010pubs/p25-1138.pdf
http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/elections/voting-age_population_and_voter_participation.html
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_cons_wpsup_k_w.htm
http://www.bls.gov/emp/ep_table_304.htm
http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_04_23.html
http://www.openleft.com/diary/13242/the-future-of-the-electorate-age-and-party-id
http://www.people-press.org/files/legacy-pdf/11-3-11%20Generations%20Release.pdf
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=datool&surl=/arrests/index.cfm#

 


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Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:37 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Also, retirees tend to be less useful as ground troops. So maybe with fewer centurions, some of the $1 trillion annual "defense" spending can be siphoned into the "entitlements" that we old geezers have been paying for.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:42 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Dr. Sandi

"Also, retirees tend to be less useful as ground troops."

I bet BIGOV is working on ideas presented by John Scalzi to solve that problem.

I also think old people can use a joystick nearly as well as younger drone pilots.

 


Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:58 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Reaction time goes to hell over the years for too many of us. Droneing is for the young.

Older folks tend to have gotten there by not being the poor dumb bastards who are willing to die for their country.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 16:49 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

DR? Sandi

How could you make such a stupid statement like that.  The number of those who would had been seniors who died in combat far exceeds those of non seniors today.  The number of senior combat veteran alive today exceeds those non senior.  This is not of course taking away from our brave younger men who served and fought and still serve and fight, but before you make such a dumb statement, know what the hell you're talking about.  And BTW our vets are NOT poor dumb bastards!

Viet Nam Vet 1969- 1970

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 17:42 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Consider The Alternative:

"The number of those who would had been seniors who died in combat ..."

And I'd guess that is the point, them poor bastards ain't around to foment corrective behaviors.

And a greenie on ya as a playa'

- Ned

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:39 | Link to Comment AlaricBalth
AlaricBalth's picture

On July 29, 2011 I posted this comment. It seems more apropos in light of Goldman's report.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/budget-debate-fraud#comment-1506074

A trillion here, a trillion there. These so-called negotiations will not make a dent. The next ten to twenty years will be defined by an enormous continuing demographic shift. As the first wave of the baby boom generation has finally hit the age of 65, most of the 77 million of us will now start to become net takers instead of net contributors. For the next 19 years, 10,000 boomers will be achieving retirement age each day. It going to take 2 workers to support each retiree. Corporate America planned for this long ago by phasing out the old traditional retirement plans and replacing them with 401K's and IRA's. Now state and local governments are facing insolvency due to under-funded pensions and poor planning. The current debate in Congress concerning deficits and debt ceilings are a short term smoke screen which does not address the true demographic problems they know exist but refuse to acknowledge. The amount of unfunded liabilities which are promised to the boomers is a staggering number. The estimates range from a low of $53 Trillion to a high of $202 Trillion over the next 20 years.  Lets see the Federal Reserve print that up!

Collectively, we boomers were lucky. We were the most healthy, educated and privileged generation ever born. Our youth was spent virtually worry free. Our college educations were inexpensive, gas was cheap, jobs were plentiful and our futures were bright. We were the "Hippies" of the late 1960's and early 70's. Love was free and drugs were cheap (orwas it the other way around). Then the 1980's rolled around and we became "Yuppies". We began to believe that success was our birthright. We bought our BMW's and wore our V-neck sweaters. We turned conspicuous consumption into an art form. Hell, even Newsweek Magazine gave us our own year (1984). We were so busy clamoring to the top of the corporate ladder we forgot to develop any job or management skills which would lay a foundation for future generations to flourish.

Then as we aged, we hit our peak spending and borrowing years in the 1990's.  We went a bit middle age crazy. We splurged on second homes and McMansions. We thought fuel would be relatively cheap forever and bought gas guzzling SUV's. We also padded our financial statements and maxed out our credit cards trying to "keep up with the Jones's". Some of our brethren became bank CEO's and leading politicians, whose unethical and irresponsible behavior has been a reflection of our entire generation. We didn't want the party to end and they just tried to prolong it for us. We wanted it all and never learned nor cared for moderation.

And now in the Autumn of our lives it looks like we are going to get it all (of course in devalued dollars). We will leave those coming up behind us with nothing but debt, austerity and a lower standard of living. We will be reigning in our spending and hoping to save so we can offset future inflation. The malls, our cathedrals of consumption, will be ghosts towns compared to what they were, with "30%-70% off" signs decorating their stores windows. We will be net sellers of equities and mutual funds soon, not net buyers. Therefore, trade accordingly. It was fun while it lasted but now the piper must be paid. You know the old saying; the longer the party the bigger the hangover. Well, this hangover may last 25-30 years until the last of my generation are dead, either through natural causes or intergenerational warfare.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

Simple solution to the whole problem. You don't get more social security out of the system than you put into it. If you outlive your savings it's back to work. Or live with your kids. Why should younger generations work longer so boomers can retire at 65?
Social security is the worst investment ever for anyone under age 50. Why people continue to support it is beyond me.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:40 | Link to Comment azusgm
azusgm's picture

I'm 58 and have been paying into SS since my teens. SS is not exactly causing me to put on my party hat either.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:39 | Link to Comment Popo
Popo's picture

...and that money has already been spent.  It's not in any "lock box".

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:56 | Link to Comment GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

 

SS will go the way of the Euro. If you want to know what that will look like just keep watching Europe.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:55 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

And so has all the money that the U.S. Gov't. has borrowed -- it has been spent too.  You are suggesting that America renege on all her financial obligations, eh?  Does that default extend to the currency in your wallet too -- it's nothing but debt of zero duration.  It's already been spent too -- a big chunk even given to your terrorist Zionist compadres in the Occupied Territory of Palestine.   What difference is there between those Ben Franklins in your mattress and those Treasury Bonds?

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

SS is a colossal ripoff, unfortunately the sheer size of the boomer generation guarantees that they will vote themselves the contents of the pockets of everyone behind them down to the last bit of lint.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 02:45 | Link to Comment RestoreOurFuture
RestoreOurFuture's picture

 

 

SS is a colossal ripoff, unfortunately the sheer size of the boomer generation guarantees......

 

I, and millions of retired American workers, wouldn't call it a ripoff; we simply a leader who has the courage to make bold decisions. Social Security can (and should) be saved!  This is a pivotal moment in American history that calls for bold, thoughtful and analytical actions by our politicians much like the actions of American hero, Ronald Reagan.

In 1982, Reagan appointed Alan Greenspan* as chairman of the National Commission on Social Security Reform, and directed him to come up with a plan to ensure that when all the baby boomers retire, the pool of social security funds wouldn't be empty for them.  While, indeed, it was a tax increase, Reagan had the charisma and conservative warmth to bring America together so that everyone understood and accepted this tax increase.  Can you only imagine how much worse off our Social Security problem would be if Reagan didn't have the courage to make those changes?  Social Security would be broke!

Fast forward 30 years, and American finds herself in a similar situation.  Does Obama have the warmth and charisma (like Reagan and/or Romney) to unify this country and persuade Americans to make difficult decisions? We need a team in Washington with the courage to make difficult decisions that will ensure that millions of hard working American citizens have a safe and secure retirement.  We need leaders with the analytical skills to dig deep into the numbers and make difficult - yet necessary - choices.  If Obama has screwed up this country this badly in three years, do you think he's the guy?  Personally, I'm voting for the guy with real business experince and whos agenda benefits those beyond the inner cities.  

Romney/Ryan 2012

* As an aside, do any of you see in mutiple similarities between Paul Ryan and the 1982-version of Alan Greenspan?  Both were/are up-and-coming Republican stars.  Both are very analytical with a penchant for digging deep into complex economical problems.  Both have an affinity for Ayn Rand, the importance of self-reliance, and the dangers of central power morphing into a nanny State.      

Just an afterthought! 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 02:49 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

 

Reagan had the charisma and conservative warmth to bring America together so that everyone understood and accepted this tax increase.

 

I did not willingly accept the tax increase nor did millions of others whom you have conveniently whitewashed out of your history. New retirees can now expect to  receive less in benefits than they have paid in. If that's not a rip off I don't know what is.

 

 

WASHINGTON — People retiring today are part of the first generation of workers who have paid more in Social Security taxes during their careers than they will receive in benefits after they retire.

Read More http://timesleader.com/stories/Historic-shift,193182#ixzz23ya92bR9
Sun, 08/19/2012 - 02:51 | Link to Comment RestoreOurFuture
RestoreOurFuture's picture

 

 

I respect your opinion, but I think most Americans trusted Reagan and rightly so.  Secondly, new retirees will only receive less in benefits if we continue this communist path we're on.  That's why I'm encouraging you to vote for a team who can make the bold decisions like Reagan did, and save this cornerstone of American security. 

Romney/Ryan 2012

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 03:13 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

You'd have better luck if you asked me for my left nut.

And that was a nice try at moving the goal posts when you switched from the specific and all inclusive "Reagan had the charisma and conservative warmth to bring America together so that everyone understood and accepted this tax increase" to the much more general and mundane statement, "I think most Americans trusted Reagan."

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:17 | Link to Comment BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Is that you Mitt?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:34 | Link to Comment LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

 

Social Security is a wedge issue it will be paid unless the entire government collapses since it is a legally enforceable debt just like any other. Even left as is the only thing that would happen is the benefits would be reduced in the future. The fund does not have the authority to tax, by law it cannot deficit spent.  Social Security is an entirely self funded program ZERO government money goes into Social Security something many don't seem to understand. It has NO EFFECT on the budget period other then when the fund actually cash's in some of it's IOU's like it just started doing. Social Security owned 19% of the debt last year far more then China or any foreign creditor. 

Think about this since it is a legally enforceable debt if anyone actually tried to dismantle the program right now where would they get the money to pay it off remember it was the largest holder of our debt?  If you use entitlement in reference to Social Security in the sense that people are entitled to get back the money they were FORCED to pay in you are correct it's the law. Doesn't matter if it was a Ponzi scheme or not the fault lies with the politicians who passed it into law to begin with long before the boomers who are starting to collect now had any say in it. I'm all for reform or getting rid of the program since I don't believe it was Constitutional to begin with but that's water over the damn now just like Obamacare will be in a few years if it's not repealed if you want to correctly phrase something as a welfare program that would be the one that's full of taxes that DO affect the budget. 

Like I said a Wedge issue.

Medicare is the real issue right now that's why they are campaigning on it.

The TRUTH About Who Really Owns All Of America's Debt

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-owns-us-debt-2011-7?op=1

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:01 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

SS is so fat that it can buy over $2 Trillion of US debt and still keep paying out to the tune of 10K new members per day (if that is even true). It ain't going away until the bottom drops out of everything else.

That 2 for every one crap is, well, crap. Each persons employer ALSO pays for each employee. That is one shit load of money. 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:07 | Link to Comment kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

tee hee :)

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:50 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Some boomers, like myself have been advocating solutions since the 1980's. It is actually the WWII generation and the lefties of several generations that voted this down.

The good or easy solutions are now too late. The best solution was never to have invented this stupid ass socialist ponzi system. Too late for that.

The next best would have been actual accounts with names on them. You can only get your own money, not someone else's. This system would have been a nice compromise. It could never go broke and you would have a fortune even with the smallest contributions. Too late for boomers on this, too. Not enough time to fund them.

The last best solutions would be to immediately stop all increases as a sort of slow haircut and then put it on some solvent financing, like the first two solutions. This will be voted down. Even when I explain to my elderly parents and one grandparent who actually acknowledge the system is going bankrupt they will accept no changes other than more money. They will deflect and say it was wasted, spent, stolen, etc. but still will not agree to anything other than continued increases hoping there is another way.

So, for us boomers, the later boomers will preside over the bankruptcy of this system and the nation as a whole. Given the nature of people they will vote more money always. There is a political party willing to lie without ceasing as to the solvency of the program and what can be done. When it breaks they will still lie about the reasons.

I do not have hope for change. It will break and the new lies will begin. I do not even really know how to prepare very well for it. For the generations that follow us boomers...see the light and fight for your financial survival. It will not be in the collectivism your stupid college professors taught you. That is the problem, not the solution.

This is the cliff or disaster that will eclipse all others. We see it. We acknowledge it. We will lie about the solutions.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:11 | Link to Comment Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

People had better understand that the Boomers are going to get paid their SS in full.  EOS.  Any politician that even raises the topic is toast.  Anyone seen Rick Parry lately?  The math doesn't work?  You aren't thinking hard enough.

Medicare is a different deal.  The whole health care system is broken.  And if it doesn't really get fixed (Obamacare, LOL) the whole economy is toast.  You could take all the medicare benefits away.  That won't matter.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 03:13 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

 Boomers are going to get paid their SS in full.

Nominally you are likely correct.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 03:16 | Link to Comment CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Not even nominally.

 

WASHINGTON — People retiring today are part of the first generation of workers who have paid more in Social Security taxes during their careers than they will receive in benefits after they retire.

Read More http://timesleader.com/stories/Historic-shift,193182#ixzz23ya92bR9
Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:14 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I agree with what I think you mean. IF the government can do their inflation plan you will get paid in full in nominal terms. A loaf of bread will be $50 and you will get the "full amount promised" back in 1976. However, it will be worthless.

The problem with this plan is that governments have inadvertantly discovered they can wreck economies more easily than they can inflate them. You see, the stupid people who invented our stupid retirement system are also stupid on multiple other fronts, like banking, medicine, energy development, trade, insurance, and even traffic control. They regulate all of these...everything, actually and they are no smarter in these areas than they are in retirement planning and accounting. They are also just as corrupt in running all these things. So, we have the delight of watching them destroy world economies. This brings deflation which screws up every inflationary tax plan they have.

What is does do in the short run is create a sort of perfect storm for the governments of the world, though in that bond yields are the lowest in history keeping enormous government debt payments low. However, it also means stalled economies everywhere and grandma has no money off her money market and bond  accounts.

So, I am not sure which way it will break, inflation or deflation, but it will definitely break.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 21:11 | Link to Comment dr kill
dr kill's picture

If you Boomers really cared about your families you would have the decency to die at about age 62. Being the first generation to live into your eighties has enabled you to spend or hoard the fortune created by all your family who had the courtesy to die in their forties or fifties after amassing wealth in the glory days of the past two centuries. Now you have it stuffed away where your grandchildren can't use it to get a start in business or life.

Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is the best use of capital for your kids or the USSA to have old stupid people sitting on trillions.

 

$.02

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:34 | Link to Comment XF
XF's picture

Exactly, I'm 46 ad I don't expect to see a dime.   The old SOBs with their incesant bleating, "I'm just getting back what I put in."   One wonders if they are delusional, stupid or simply that egocentric.    Probably all three.

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

A lot of us are still trying to overcome the full course menu of lies and bullshit pumped into our brains by our evil overlords during the "Wonder Years." Excuse me if normalcy bias makes acceptance of the truth come a little slowly.

But the fact is, if THEY hadn't lied to us daily during our formative years, a lot of us probably would have dropped out even earlier. And there'd be even LESS of nothing to go around.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:07 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Can't quantify it (wouldn't have the time to even try), but I think the boomers and the next group were the most lied to and manipulated generations.   Most bought it all.  All will end up paying for it.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 08:00 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

 

dropped out? Who paid your fucking salary? Who paid your fucking VA bennies? Where do you think that money came from? Hopw come all you fucking geezers think THEY spent all that money? It was fucking YOU, you asshole. YOU spent that money dropping bombs on rice paddies in the middle of FUCKING NOWHERE. Hope you enjoyed it douchebag, how many 500 lbers did your Social security conrtibution buy? Like THREE, not including the FUCKING INTEREST paid since NINETEEN SIXTY FUCKING NINE??? Because you borrowed that shit up too...

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:23 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

XF, I think you are unfairly junked but your comment is accurate. That is exactly what they say. If they are elderly and have been on it awhile they have gotten a few mulitples of what they paid. However, they think it is their money and they are being paid fairly. I saw an article on a guy in Montana who died at the age of 114 and he said "That Social Securtiy was a great idea!", LOL! Of course! He was old enough to have lived before and during the lowest payouts when the ponzi was fresh.

More to your comment, I think the "old SOB's with their incessant bleating" are helpless. That is my conclusion. They sold their souls to the government devil and now they are relatively helpless and dependent. It is a matter of survival for them. Welcome to the middle class version of welfare dependency. I assure you I have many relatives in this situation as does most everyone. They are a huge voting block with plenty of time on their hands and fear at their backs.

The ongoing problem is that as all mature collectivists know, you can know absolutely pull the strings of fear and line them up to vote for those who say "all is well and there is more" and against all those who say "we must take strong measures and swallow the bitter pill now, before all is lost!" I think Obama and his collectivists pals have a good shot at reelection, myself. My own mother will acknowledge he is wrecking the economy but believes his healthcare plan is good and he will keep the checks coming. Amazing.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 04:49 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

+65 will be the largest voting bloc. They'll get the money.
So debts will continue to. Rise. Younger will be paid in decayed value dollars.
Out of the two workers, one will be marginal, low skilled, low paid. Or worki.g for local, state, federal gov. So that means one worker will have to earn enough to pay for the other gov worker, an elderly, and his expensees, interest on gov debt roll over, and if anything is left, their own families.
Not going to work. (Although it explains bi partisan support for illegals. It's cheaper to import people then raise them here. )

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:30 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I wish I had the links but there are some excellent articles on how many people a PRODUCTIVE (i.e., generally not a government worker) worker must support. It is amazing and depressing. Last week I heard about 8 million and growing are on disability. It pays better than unemployment.

It is why we have 40% Fedral deficits and it will get worse as we go. Add in your stated deficits, bankrupt cities, unfunded government union pensions and it is astronomical in size.  At some point it becomes pointless to work if the real tax rates ever kick in. BTW, the real tax rate is what your governments at all levels spend each year, not what you pay in tax rates.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:08 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"Simple solution to the whole problem. You don't get more social security out of the system than you put into it."

Simple solution to all insurance benefits -- you don't get more out than you pay in.  WTF kind of bullshit is that?  Does this mean you think if your house burns down, you shouldn't get anymore from the insurance company than you paid in premiums?  Or if you die, your dependents don't get any more than you paid in premiums on your life insurance regardless of the insurance contract?  Well -- fuck you!  And fuck all the rotten thieving Zionist scumbags that are trying to steal the money and get the Social Security System to renege on their legal obligations due to the payments that we've paid into it for years.

"Simple solution to the whole problem. You don't get more social security out of the system than you put into it."

Social security is insurance.  Insurance is not an investment.   It is a reverse form of gambling -- an annuity, a form of life insurance.  If I make a legal bet, I expect to be paid on that bet if I win.  It doesn't matter if that bet is in Las Vegas on the crap table or in Washington on an annuity contract.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:28 | Link to Comment You Didn't Buil...
You Didn't Build That's picture

<<30%-70% off" signs decorating their stores windows>>

 

You are too optimistic. I see lots of empty mall spaces with signs, "new store coming soon." The handful of stores that are still able to stay open despite plunging revenues must offer 30-90% off (plus a Fat Cashback) to attract any attention to debt-saddled consumers.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 07:41 | Link to Comment jballz
jballz's picture

 

pigfuckers, most of them.

Sure glad you and the boys saved us from those water buffalo pushers in SEA who were going to swim over and take our country any day.

You're a fucking dupe. 10 years pissing money into the drain, oh wait, not into the drain, into the coffers of the masters of war, and you want respect?

Go fuck yourself. 3.5 million dead civilians, go to your grave with that honor, you pigfucker.

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 17:51 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Sandi:

"Older folks tend to have gotten there by not being the poor dumb bastards who are willing to die for their country."

In that venue, older folks tend to have gotten (OT? : u from new england? just wonderin' 'cuz gotten traces back all the way to the ...) to live 'cuz they waz nay playaz.  No opinion on that here (Cassius Clay did his time as well as anyone else, just in a different venue, and all within the law.)

A Maina' who I respect said: "Neva' ran into a fight, neva' ran out of a fight."  So it might not be about reaction time.  It is certanly about endurance.  And that is mental as well as physical, prob the first matters more.

- Ned

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

I have been paying into MY SS retirement since I was 15. Now, they act like I'm trying to cheat them out of something.

The "cure" is NOT to cut payments and extend age eligibility. The cure is to repay the $3.5 Trillion "borrowed" from the fund, remove the $110,000 "cap" on the tax, and to reinstate the FULL SS tax currently reduced under the "Bush Payroll Tax Cut."

How ignorant was it to even FURTHER reduce the contributions to a program that for years we have been crying about it being underfunded?

In an era of "single issue" items deciding elections, The GOP had better get on the right side of this HUGE voting block. I’m not sure Ryan is the right step.

The problem is NOT that there used to be 16 people paying in for each retiree, and now there is only 3. The problem is that there is now only 3 paying in BECAUSE they (congress) stole the surplus that was designed in to pay for the large baby boomer group retiring.

(These funds should not be going out to anyone who hasn’t paid in.)

So, reduce unemployment benefits, welfare, food stamps, defense spending, lunches for school kids, education and medical benefits for illegals, foreign aid......ANYTHING but the money I was FORCED to pay for my retirement.

You kids NOT understanding this better beware the "next" retirement program the govt. forces YOU to participate in, because I can guarantee you they will spend it 40 years from now, before YOU can collect!

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:24 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Stop wasting your energy man, the debt cannot be paid off without serously devaluing the currency.

You really think they are going to tax the rich more? oh dear

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:31 | Link to Comment johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

please.....you could tax the rich 100% and it would fix nothing...debts too big.period.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:55 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Agreed dude, but also, they wont tax the rich anyway.

Solution that is easiest, devalue the currency.

All this jobs data, retail data bullshit will be exposed as tax revenue comes in annually and the debt continues to increase.

You fucking know it dude

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:50 | Link to Comment FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Boogerbently, where should we start? The payroll tax cut happened two years after Bush left office. He never proposed it or supported it. Second, there is no $3.5T surplus used by the goverment it's around $2.3T and wil be exhausted in 2033 (this includes interest paid in of course). Third, Social security really isn't that big a deal, it can be fixed with modest adjustments. The problem is Medicare. The average person signing up today (at age 65) will have paid in $110,000 (his and his companies contribution) in todays $ and will take out $280,000 over his/her life in todays $. That math can't work, even for Democrats like you.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:56 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Alpha and FMRBankster,

I have always been a conservative. Reread my post, I NEVER said tax the rich.

I said the GOP, who has traditionally been supported by the seniors, are in danger of losing that support if the ONLY fix thet see for SS is cutting benefits and raising the retirement age.

You doomsday ZH'ers, who are SO proud of NOT being duped, have swallowed the liberal media Kool-Aid on this one.

The FACTS are:

They STOLE TRILLIONS from MY retirement. Now they want ME to take less instead of cutting whatever program they funded with MY money.

They cut the traditional amount of tax to SS.

They have a cap on SS tax at the $ 106,000 level.......who benefits from this, past that level?

The difference between me and most of you, is that I am older, and have been getting SCREWED longer from the same govt, you constantly whine about. You repeat the CRAP you've been brainwashed with your whole life, without thinking.

 You PROBABLY think "gay is OK", because you were taught that in school !!

If they abandon SS, they WILL have an alternate plan, which you WILL donate to.

40 years from now, you will be having THIS conversation with brainwashed kids who want to deny you your $$$ after the politicians have "redistributed" it.

STOP.

Take a breath.

THINK about it.

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Yes, they stole your retirement- so now YOU want to steal it from someone else to make you whole. What a pathetic hypocrite.

Some conservative- "GIMME MY SOCIALISM AND I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT ANYTHING BUT WHAT THE GOVERNMENT AND OTHER PEOPLE OWE ME!" How amusing. You are the problem of your children- not mine. No doubt you are quite conservative when somebody else is the one getting money from the government teat but you howl at the thought of not being able to feed from it yourself and its all about what everyone owes you. Forget the fact that the money does not exist and cannot be paid, you simply don't give a damn.

Let me get this straight- you have been getting screwed for longer than I have, so I am supposed to furnish you with the retirement you feel you deserve? Parasite, I'm 45 and have been getting burnt on this since I started working at 16. I know damn well I won't get anything because I can do math, but unlike you I don't want to steal from somebody else to make up for my getting screwed.

You may get what you are "owed" but what you will be able to buy with it is entirely another matter. The only way to pay you is to ensure that the dollar isn't worth a damn thing. There is no other possiblility, grow the hell up already.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:54 | Link to Comment NemoDeNovo
NemoDeNovo's picture

Its not even so much about the "Older" Generation getting screwed, for me it is the FACT that "They" can not accept or acknowledge that they were lied to and it's NO ONES Fault but their own.  Great the media/govt lied to them for longer, well whose fault is it you didn't figure it out sooner?  Now you want to bitch whine and cry that you STILL need to be paid your money that the Mob Stole from ya......

ROFLMAO

Hey Boomers and up!!!  You got FUCKED and the younger Generation is getting FUCKED, sorry we figured it out sooner, that's not our FAULT!!! Take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and handle it!  We are.......

 

...and the MAIN difference for the younger generation [I am 40], is there ain't SHIT out here for "Decent" jobs like there was for your generation, so in a lot of ways then younger generation is and is going to suffer much worse then you will, we will NEVER have so much of what was easy for your generation. 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:48 | Link to Comment CalibratedConfidence
CalibratedConfidence's picture

Gay's have no control over my life.  I could care less what they do.  I didn't realize you were the only person to pay into SS and feel "they stole trillions of my retirement".  Should have woken up sooner brother, sorry you voted every 4 years and got fucked by a gov't that doesn't care about you.  Yeah, we want you to take the hit because you were to fucking dumb to realize what was going on.  I don't want to pay into this shit anymore.  I can manage my own money for retirement better than the government can.  I realize this.  I accept this.  Wish you could too.

As for doomsday ZH's...sorry the truth isn't Disney Land and Peter Pan fantasy.  For 25 years people are taught what to think and how to think.  ZH'ers are not that group.  ZH will tell you SS is bullshit, HFT doesn't tighten spreads, and that Europe is total fucked and that the Emperor Has No Clothes.

The government we whine about was created and established under your generation.  On the contrary, you are the one who believed what you were taught in school, such as government can manage your retirement money better than you can.  Don't blame us for calling you out on your bullshit.  We're self educated and taint free.

STOP.

take breath.

THINK about it.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:58 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Forty years ago I would have said the same thing that you just did.  Guess what?  It didn't matter to TPTB whether I wanted to be in the system or not and whether I could fund my own retirement or not.  Payments were compulsory.

Why the fuck should you get away without paying?  I didn't get to.   I got to pay for a few wars I didn't want or believe in either (still paying).  Do you care?  I didn't think so.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:23 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Lets say yes they did steal it. The government, it stole. The stealing, lying, armed, Homeland/IRS/NSA/Waco. Government. And then there is you. Checking your mailbox every day to see if you got a letter back from your Congressman making everything right, just, whole. Hello, anybody home? I think you mistake your a d our part in this . We are not the drummer, we are the drum, to be beaten. You remind me of stories of Russians being dragged of to Siberia and yelling about rights under the Soviet constitution. Ink smear on wood pulp. Printed boob bait.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:14 | Link to Comment kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

I only regret that I have but one junk to give to your dumb, entitled comment

also nice job working gay people into your hissy fit

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:22 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

"The problem is Medicare. The average person signing up today (at age 65) will have paid in $110,000 (his and his companies contribution) in todays $ and will take out $280,000 over his/her life in todays $. That math can't work, even for Democrats like you."

And what do the Bush neoconmen Republicans do (with the help of the thieving neolib Democrats in Congress)?  They enact Medicare Part D that guarantees that Big Pharma will get another huge chunk of the trust fund!  Grand theft on a grand scale!

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:11 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

jQ: a greenie on ya.  And I wonder who the pussy junksta is, obviously no balls to actually make a comment.

- Ned

{and not only tax, but confiscate all, still the same outcome}

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:31 | Link to Comment masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

Repay with what? Oh, printed money that will destroy the value of everyone's savings.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Depends on whether what you save crinkles or jingles.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:38 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Plato: "Nothing in the affairs of men is worth great anxiety"

Relax dude

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:00 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Plato must have been a Christian:

Matthew 6

 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life ?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:22 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

"Not one single problem - in the whole of human history - has ever been solved by just worrying about it" --- i-dog

Take action ... or just sit down quietly and eat your peas.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:34 | Link to Comment You Didn't Buil...
You Didn&#039;t Build That's picture

 

"Blessed are the meek:
for they shall inherit the earth."

 

Matthew 5:5

 

BTW, it's one Blankfein forgot t read in Sunday school.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 19:06 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Here's the beef.  You got fucked.  Give me a break. You lived square in the middle of the biggest bubble in history and the most peaceful time ever as a result... and did not know it.

Your money is gone.  Wake and up and start looking for the real answers as to how you got here.  Do't waste our time around here with the "I am owed something" crap.  Stand in line asshole.  lol.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:14 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

 

"Do't waste our time around here with the "I am owed something" crap.  Stand in line asshole.  lol."

 

Ok fine. I'll feel the same way when I hear someone whining about money they think is owed to them by the likes of Peregrine and MF Global.

 

Deal?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:51 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

 

For the 4 red downvoters(now 6, with no replies)...I view both scenarios as theft.

 

centerline said this about my(and my employers) forced by law 'contributions' to FICA on my behalf:

 

Your money is gone.  Wake and up and start looking for the real answers as to how you got here.  Do't waste our time around here with the "I am owed something" crap.  Stand in line asshole.  lol.

 

I responded:

 

"Ok fine. I'll feel the same way when I hear someone whining about money they think is owed to them by the likes of Peregrine and MF Global."

 

Now then which theft is worse?

 

I and millions of other working people and our employers on our behalf are forced by the law of the land to pay into what I fully agree is a ponzi scam(for almost 40 years in my case).  When I'm still 10 years from the lowest age(62) to retire and be eligible for SS 'benefits' I hear a bunch of young cunts telling me 'fuck you you socialist geezer, our political 'leaders' blew all the money you paid in, and besides you ain't owed shit...stand in line'. But I feel I'm 'entitled' to at least the principal amounts that were by law taken from my income(and the matching amounts that by law my employers were forced to pay on my behalf).

or...

Someone who by their own choice, in order to trade in futures/commodities, placed money in an account that was managed by crooks and criminals inc. who 'vaporized' that someones money. Now 'someone' feels 'entitled' to a return of their money.

 

Maybe I'm biased, but I'm more sympathetic to the individuals in the first scenario. But again IMO both scenarios are a form of theft.

 

edit: from the FICA link above it says this:

 

The United States Supreme Court decided in Flemming v. Nestor (1960) that no one has an accrued property right to benefits from Social Security.

 

But yet we're still forced to keep paying into the scam...ain't that a bitch!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:04 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

There is nothing I can say that Leadnbrass hasn't already said so well above and below this post.

We both agree here though.  Of course what happened in big finance is criminal.  Gambling is gambling.  And gambling with other people's money without thier consent is criminal.  A system designed some 100 years based on perpetual growth is also criminal in my opinion - it exploits human nature.  But, the latter is a slippery slope that leads us into conversations about human nature, political structures, history, etc.  Lot's of places for predators to hide.

I am in my 40's and know I won't get a dime.  And I did not live in the same magical time period so long as to have even a snowball's chance in hell to stick a little something in the bank - own some decent property somewhere.  The word "pension" wasn't even in the corporate dictionary by the time I entered the professional workforce.

We all would like to rewind the clock or somehow get our money back.  But, that isn't going to happen and my time machine is out of plutonium.

It pisses me off that I am paying every day into this scam.  If I could opt out I would.  But, for now I trapped (forced) to play by these rules for the greater good of my family.

What is really annoying though - and is likely what is drawing you so much heat is that your generation is the one that refuses to take the red pill.  The one that still plays the same old red-blue, left-right game.    

The core fact here is that younger generations do not owe you anything.  If you are taken care of in your old age, it will be because of honor and love.  Not because of when you were born or because you got screwed.  We all are getting screwed and those born behind you are getting a even worse deal.  So, "stand in line" if you are going to take that angle.  It's a really long line too.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:24 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

 

Thanks for responding and stating your position... +1

 

For the record I don't think that you younger people owe me anything. It's the political puppets(past and present, (R) or (D)), who sold us out and allowed the money we older folk have paid in(FICA taxes) to be spent on all sorts of things that benefitted a few special interests, that I'm taking to task.

 

Actually I've already resigned myself to the fact that whatever I've paid in the past and am still paying in FICA taxes I will never see any sort of 'return.'

 

As for... "The one that still plays the same old red-blue, left-right game." This homey don't play that shit any longer. I have no use for any of them.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:48 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

+1 from me.  The fact you are here at ZH already says alot.  My position was really aimed at a very simple concept that seems so pervasive in the baby boomer generation.  That is some odd sense of being "owed something" - and somehow connecting it younger generations.  Directly or by implying that mathematics can be ignored a little longer, damn the consequences.

I can sincerely appreciate the frustration that boomers are now feeling.  I really can.  But, I have yet to hear a boomer admit that while they are fucked - younger generations are beyond fucked.  AND, we never had the same odds to getting ahead as the boomer generation did.  Therefore, when boomers start the generation divide arguments, you will find some real heated arguments coming from it.

There are no easy answers here at all.  We are all going to have to work together.  Families and neighbors are going to have to take care of each other in ways that have not been common for a very long time now... out of honor and love - not obligation though.

 

edit -

Just wanted to add that our collective frustration needs to be aimed at the system... bankers and politicians to start.  Then work up the food chain.  The fact there have been no real prosecutions so far says everything we need to know about who has been doing the screwing all these years - and is continuing to do so.

Unfortunately, real damage has been done.  We now face real resource, population, and social problems.  These are real issues that we will have to face as well.  And, there are no easy answers.  The key though is not allowing ourselves to be divided any further.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:03 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

.

 

"But, I have yet to hear a boomer admit that while they are fucked - younger generations are beyond fucked."

 

I'll admit it...hell I can see it in the form of my two daughters who are in their mid to late twenties. Both of them and their families are seriously struggling. I do what I can to help them, but right now I'm struggling myself to stay afloat. I see a dim future for all of us.

 

"Just wanted to add that our collective frustration needs to be aimed at the system... bankers and politicians to start.  Then work up the food chain.  The fact there have been no real prosecutions so far says everything we need to know about who has been doing the screwing all these years - and is continuing to do so.

...The key though is not allowing ourselves to be divided any further."

 

Absolutely! +1000

 

They don't want to see us united  

All they want us to do is fuss and keep on fighting  

They don't want to see us live together

All they want us to do is kill one another

~ Bob Marley - Top Rankin

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:24 | Link to Comment ceedub
ceedub's picture

People under 22-26 are currently the most fucked group in the country. There are no jobs for college graduates with good degrees.

Masters in mechicanl engineering with over a year of intern experience? Look for a job for 6 months and you finally get a temp job with no benefits.

We can't even begin our working careers much less worrying about fucking retirement. Most of us couldn't even fucking vote before the crash and you asshole old geezers want to push it on us and say we're fucking lazy. Sorry guy's but you boomers are the ones who drove the ship straight into the rocks.

And to the guy who said we were taught to love gays, nah man we just aren't retarded assholes. They are normal people not the big scary ooggaaboogaa AIDS machines your jesus instructor led you to believe.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:19 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

+1 

or the "banksters"

We no longer live in caves, but the basics are still the same.   You want meat and hides?  Go hunt.  Keep your hands off mine.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:11 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

My point is,

If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing.

AND

You deserve the same support when they screw you.

" the most peaceful time ever. " .....1953 until now??? (Korea, Viet Nam, Middle East...)

"I am owed something" crap..... Just the money I put in.

To me you, saying I "deserve it" is like saying all the victims of Madoff, Corzine, Knight, Peregrine, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson......DESERVE it.

I'm sorry it's INCONVENIENT for you, at this time, but ending/reversing the screwing doesn't start with YOUR generation.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:26 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Your not very good at math are you?  Or history?

Anyhow, no one here said the "screwing" was justified in any way.  And, I never said you deserve it.

What makes you think that we aren't all getting screwed and younger generations are going to have it even worse?  Younger generations know that they will not live as good as you did.  They know that life is going to get much harder than it was for you (already is, by the way).

It seems you think the younger generation is "turning against you."  LOL.  With that attitude you might be right, but will have created said outcome and at that point will deserve it.  Perhaps you should explore whatever character flaw makes you so easily turn against your (younger) neighbors.  This sort of selfish and misguided attitude is pervasive in your generation though.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:29 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

How would you feel if the money you had in all of America's financial institutions was stolen and all the insurance programs like FDIC, SPIC, etc. were reneged on and you got nothing?  Ditto for your retirement, if any?  All the legal contracts that were a "store of value" were reneged on?  All your property were stolen?  History?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:02 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

That's what has been happening as a result of inflation all along.   Cash under the mattress was stolen outright.  Imagine I put a year's salary in a mason jar back in 1970.  Oops.

Reality is that we were forced to play the game.  Reality is that the funds are already toast - thier fate has been sealed.  Reality is that our property CAN be taken (just don't pay your property taxes and you will find out in a hurry).

I don't like any of this any more than you do (well, maybe you are a wierdo like that - lol).  But, I am not going to play dumb.  Nor am I going to blame my neighbor for anything more than not waking the hell up earlier!

We here are in a different position though.  We know something wicked is coming.  We can do something to prepare and can help those around who will listen do the same.

Green arrow up from me FS.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 19:15 | Link to Comment kekekekekekeke
kekekekekekeke's picture

preach

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:19 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Look Sparky, you people didn't do a goddamn thing in the 40 years since Uncle Sam started screwing with Social Security. You had your fun and you partied for your entire lives on borrowed money without ever bothering to consider what impact it would have, or even if there would be enough people to pay for the grandiose and delusionary promises you made yourselves.

It is unconscionable that you literally want to feed off of your grandkids (well, those of you who could even be bothered to raise a next generation while pursuing your personal fulfillment at every step) and have literally turned economic child abuse into a retirement plan. Why not just show up at the playground in and shake nickels out of their pockets?

Those of us behind the two legged locust swarm known as the boomer generation already known damn well we won't get anything. The difference between me and you is that I would gladly take it in the teeth and write off my nearly 30 years of losses in order to keep the burden off of my kid's generation, you want to eat every last kernel of seed corn and drain every last drop of blood so that you get yours.

I suspect you will get yours alright, and will get it good and hard when the wheels fall off due to the insane demands of your generation on a structually broken economy and impoverished people behind you.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:14 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

My point is,

If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing.

AND

You deserve the same support when they screw you.

" the most peaceful time ever. " .....1953 until now??? (Korea, Viet Nam, Middle East...)

"I am owed something" crap..... Just the money I put in.

To me you, saying I "deserve it" is like saying all the victims of Madoff, Corzine, Knight, Peregrine, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson......DESERVE it.

I'm sorry it's INCONVENIENT for you, at this time, but ending/reversing the screwing doesn't start with YOUR generation.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:31 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing"

Bzzzzt ... FAIL! ... non sequitor!

Insert another coin and try again.

 

To attempt to re-balance the argument ... no voter over the age of 20 who has benefited from any government largesse in their education or by way of other subsidies (fuel, iCrap, cheap mortgage, etc), has any right to criticise the boomers. Remember: Most of the $16 trillion in debt that funded all those things has been run up in just the last few years.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:36 | Link to Comment BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

"...the last few years..."

Yes, yes it has. So now what? Let's just be honest. We're going to pay your Social Security with devalued dollars, we'll give you decades of medical treatment which will cost more than all the taxes you paid in your life, we'll give all the seed capital for new businesses to make up the difference, and when the last boomer is gone, those left behind will work wherever we can find someone from the new generation to give us cash. Our favorite hobby will be gardening: but it will be food, not roses. We will live with our children, or our grandchildren. We will forego life-saving treatments, because we have no money, and we won't drive our progeny into debt. And when our generation is gone, our grandchildren will look around and say...

"There should be some sort of safety net for old people, so they don't have to push themselves off on ice floes, like our grandparents did!". And the cycle will start again.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture

 

 

"you partied for your entire lives"

 

Yeah, it's been a real fucking fun party too. I'm living that blue collar workin man high life. /s

 

JFC!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:59 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

lol...so where are we at here in this discussion?

We all agree government started programs, to fix percieved problems and has now only made them much worse and us more dependent on it, the government, as usual.

We all agree the majority of the population was not taught basic economics in the public school system. We all agree its counter productive to fight amongst ourselves over the scraps...the leftovers. We all agree its only possible because of printing money from thin air and the power that gives to the most corrupt among us.

Surely we must agree it has to end or be greatly pared back to end (both Medicare and SSI) at some point.

But lets at least start with either one. 

An age must be decided on at which the younger generation is not forced to pay in, the ponzi's must stop.

Disclaimer...I'm a Boomer.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:35 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Nicely put.  The math is real and the issue we face now are not fun.  But, for the sake of the generations behind us, it is time to man-up and deal with it.  The boomer generation stands the best chance to pull this off.  Sheer numbers, connections, wisdom of years, etc.  Just have to get past the "hurt" of coming face to face with the truth.

In the short term, there is mountain of nasty things we are going to have to deal with.  I personally don't have much faith that we will find a civil way out of a good portion of the mess we are in.  Ponzi schemes don't usually end well.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:00 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Its gonna be tough centerline, on everybody.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:08 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Yeah.  I can feel it coming.  Not sure how it plays out, but I expect I will be taking care of many people and the dynamics of everyday life are going to start really changing fast.  Right now feels more like suspended animation... artificial support that will result in even greater acceleration of change once the support is let loose or fails.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:12 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Repost:

Well, the libertarians had a plan to end SS in the early 90s.

They wanted to sell the 1.2 million square miles of land and most of the buildings the federal government 'owns'.

The proceeds would have been used to buy out, set up annuities, or cut free everyone from Social Security.

The benefit would have been more money in workers' pockets and hopefully, smaller government.

 

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:55 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well, the problem with that is, the government used my money and/or my consent to force in order to aquire them in the first place. Its mine in part already.

Now, if they want to give me my title to my forty acres along a river bank in Yellowstone as payment in lieu of SSI, I'm down with that.

In other words, ferners need not apply for this one time special offer ;-)

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:39 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

If you're going to just steal people's money, why not steal the Koch Bros., the Rockfellers, the Romneys, the Bushes, the Cheneys, all the .01%ers' money to pay for the system?  They've gotten away quite nicely for years.  It's payback time!

If theft is necessary, is it not better, or at least not as bad, to steal from the few than the many?   Especially those few that have spent their lives stealing from the rest of us.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:04 | Link to Comment nmewn
nmewn's picture

I'll assume you left out Soros, the Kennedy's, Kerry-Heinz and congressional pensions as an oversight ;-)

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:06 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Not as an oversight, but because there isn't enough room in the post to list every one of those thieving mutherfukers.  Yeah, definitely them too!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

That sounds like a fantastically good idea, right? But if you do the math, it doesn't quite work out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 16:14 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Every little bit helps.  There's more places too.  Like Medicare Part D Big Pharma giveaway and SSDI given out freely to everyone that has some sort of addiction.   The U.S. Military's and government employees' exemption on payments to the system.  

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Boomers.   

First it was society and their parents who owed them, now its future generations.   STFU!

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:45 | Link to Comment bunnyswanson
bunnyswanson's picture

http://www.pacemakerclub.com/public/jpage/1/p/story/a/storypage/sid/23537/content.do

 

Did you plan your retirement fund according to the Mayan Calender too? 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:52 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Congress didn't steal. They openly passed legislation, that could of been repealed at any time. But they and you didn't want that because you wanted federal pork without the taxes.
And now here we are with the pork( who's going to give up their share? ) the taxes, the debts, a crappy economy and no kids to sucker off the debts onto.
Unexpectedly, of course.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:15 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

My point is,

If you agree with my being screwed, then you are on the side of the govt. doing the screwing.

AND

You deserve the same support when they screw you.

" the most peaceful time ever. " .....1953 until now??? (Korea, Viet Nam, Middle East...)

"I am owed something" crap..... Just the money I put in.

To me you, saying I "deserve it" is like saying all the victims of Madoff, Corzine, Knight, Peregrine, Geithner, Bernanke, Paulson......DESERVE it.

I'm sorry it's INCONVENIENT for you, at this time, but ending/reversing the screwing doesn't start with YOUR generation.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 00:35 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

If you're going to whine, then just do it once. Three times is ... how shall I say it? ... reeeeealy whiny!

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:57 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

You're apparently not very bright.

I figured maybe if you read it a few times, you would understand that you are advocating the SAME kind of robbery you complain about in other aspects of finance/economy.

But I guess if it's YOU doing the screwing, you can rationalize it.

In this case, you ARE the same "sheeple" you condemn.

It also reminds me of myself when I was 20, and my attitude about "anyone over 30" during the Viet Nam War era.

I wonder if this "generational" thing is like the "Red Vs. Blue" thing. It distracts us from our real goal, fixing Washinton.

 

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 05:15 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

In private investment you are free to, or not to give you wealth to others, all or part.
Madoff promised by unclear methods to return year after year 2-300% MORE then industry standard. Hello.
No one believes SSI is an " investment ". It is a tax on workers to hand over/ buy off elderly. There is mo trust fund. It does not own any buildings, shares, investments like a private pension or insurance company.
You grew up in an economy that was undertaxed, low debt. Your SSI will be paid by over taxed, over debt younger workers. The only stealing that is and has gone on is the usual taxes are theft kind. Bowed that dollars flood/paper the world, fedgov can debase them and steal openly from anyone holding ever more printed dollars. So until others wise up to the scam, we have that going for us, which is nice.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 01:21 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Time to complete your training, young padawan:

http://reason.com/blog/2008/10/24/saving-social-security-episode

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:38 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

Ha, Ha

After the first clip, I thought you understood what I was saying.

After the next three, not so much.

Considering their audience, I understand why they put their message in cartoon form.

So, the govt. tells us they'll collect this $$$ all our working lives, and pay it back with interest. (because we're not responsible enough to do it ourselves.)

Then, 40 years later, we find out THEY have "borrowed" a great portion of that money (through irresponsible spending.)

Meanwhile (the last 40 years) we have saved less, because we have factored SS into our retirement plans.

Rather than take the money from the programs they funded with our SS, they convince the (young, gullible) next generation that the reason SS is underfunded is because of the sheer number of retirees Vs. the number of workers. When, in fact, the money to make up that difference was the surplus that was stolen.

If you can't understand this, at LEAST understand, they will start you on another program. It WILL be forced, and controlled by them. You don't think they'll just say..."we trust you to save your own money ", do you ?

They are not only brainwashing you into allowing us to get ripped off, but help in the process.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 14:41 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

Almost impossible to salvage anything here when the instinct is to be so binary.  Reality is that there is truth in all of it.  Above all, the mathematics of a system built on perpetual growth in a world of finite resource.  Nothing is forever, and even monetary systems come and go.  Nations rise and fall.

FYI, it sounds cowardly to suggest that the youth is allowing you to get ripped off.  The youth isn't even thinking about your SS check.  Right now they are trying to find jobs, make ends meet, take care of thier kids, etc.  Regarding the suggestion that young people are being elisted to "rip you off" - major dickhead statement there.

 

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 03:21 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

 reinstate the FULL SS tax currently reduced under the "Bush Payroll Tax Cut."

Try to get at least your basic facts straight.
SS payroll tax was "temporarily" cut and later extended by Obama.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:11 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

DUDE!  You've been lied to all your life.  You probably voted to continue the lie.  Statism and the concept that the govt can take care of you if you just pay more taxes is a lie!   Get over it, and prepare to take care of your self.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:34 | Link to Comment Seer
Seer's picture

"So it might not be about reaction time.  It is certanly about endurance."

Let's see how far that goes when you encounter a bear in the woods. :-()

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:01 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

When outrunning a bear, you don't have to be first. You have have to not be LAST.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 19:48 | Link to Comment max2205
max2205's picture

Pay the fuck up bitches I plan on collecting the first day I can.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Over the past year or so in Ahganistan, members of Afghanistan PD and military caused "10%" of all US military deaths.  USA and its MSM enablers report not all the killers were Al Qaeda.  Some deaths were for "personal vendettas".  The latter, I suppose, is an easier pill for stupid Americans to swallow than the former.

Hey!  Great recruiting slogan!  "Sign up now!  If you die, take comfort in knowing the killer could be our 'ally', not Al Qaeda!"

Damn!  I knew there was awesome fun in the military available no where else!  Sign me up now dude! 

 

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:02 | Link to Comment scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

Hey no one ever said it would be easy protecting/controlling the opium trade routes.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 19:11 | Link to Comment azusgm
azusgm's picture

Are you forgetting something when you type this:

 

"Older folks tend to have gotten there by not being the poor dumb bastards who are willing to die for their country."

 

What was your draft lottery number? For some, the difference between 2 digits and 3 digits was life or death.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Stock Tips Inve...
Stock Tips Investment's picture

This is a problem that societies have coped successfully throughout the history of mankind. In many cases, wars (with many deaths) were the answer. On other occasions, the elderly were left to die "faster." In our case, I think that the concept of social security will have to change drastically in the following years. Much less developed countries (such as Chile, Colombia and Peru, in South America), have a pension system "private". Each worker "gives" money to an account in your own name which is managed by certain undertakings authorized. They know how much it costs these countries pensions of this population? zero, nothing!. you know what the deficit of these three countries? zero, nothing!. is more, annually have surpluses. Know what the net debt of the governments of these three countries?. zero, nothing! no debt. As you know these countries grow annually? more than 6% per year over the last 12 years. I think we have to learn from "others" who are doing these things better than us.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:34 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

"Reaction time goes to hell over the years for too many of us. Droneing is for the young."

Actually, slow but skilled reactions are necessary to pilot drones.  The round trip time for communications with a drone can exceed a second.  Patience and slow prediction are the main skills of drone pilots.

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 16:33 | Link to Comment Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

You guys aren't thinking evil enough. In a war, the PTB will use the old folks as live bait, decoys, and warm bodies that appear to be a massive standing army. The enemy will then waste time obliterating the old folks while the young bucks turn the tables.

Oh, and what better way to reduce the debt and pare down the "entitlement crowd" by sending the biggest users of such entitlements into battles that aren't meant to be won.

You gotta think like pure evil to understand just how twisted any government is.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 17:41 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Man, we will all die one way or another. Who gives a fuck?

Enjoy your freedom while you have it, historically we have never had it so good. You are some wanker expecting to have some amazing and free life, nice idea but get real.

Historically humans have always got fucked by the people at the top of the food chain.

Get laid, ride the silver bull market and have a few drinks or fuck off

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

And you guys just aren’t thinking outside of the box.  Just annex Mexico!  Willingly or unwillingly, who cares?  We get enthusiastic and cheap workers, senoraitas, better enchiladas, and favorable demographics.  They get real football, California, and a chance to chase the American dream. 

Best of all, they don’t bring Sharia law with them.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:18 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Fuck off racist cunt.

Muslims are good people, the zionist hate them and propaganda is against them.

Are you a retarded child?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

you show your intelligence (lack of) every time you put your IQ in print by way of your opinion. and as far as muslims and sharia law, you will change your uninformed opinion when the knife (figuratively or in reality) is at your throat. Islam is different than other religions in that Many of it's adherents feel it is justified/sanctioned by their religious leaders and books to Force us who they deem unbelievers into submission to their god. and if you think that the muslims who are 'good people' will protect you open your eyes and look around at muslim states everywhere. there's nothing racist about telling the truth. and you are the last person who should be calling Others retarded

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:06 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Right man, You are a fuck face.

I have many friends who are muslim and know a lot about many rleigions and scriptures.

I also have an IQ in the top .001% btw, and a mathematics degree from Oxford, and have aquired over a ten million in assets, no debt.

U are just a useless cunt, grow up.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:14 | Link to Comment New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"I also have an IQ in the top .001% btw,..."

Joe Biden posts on ZH?  Who knew?

- Ned

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:53 | Link to Comment Acorn10012
Acorn10012's picture

And he has a ten inch dick and fucked the Queen, the Olsen twins, Pam Anderson, Gillian Anderson, Cooper Anderson, the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man, Marcia Brady, Hannah Montana, Goober and Gomer.............

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 05:28 | Link to Comment Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

The " Stay Thirsty, My Friends " guy was modeled after him.

He invented Rugby, to be played against himself.
Neal Armstrong found a wrapper from his Cuban cigar collection ob the moon.
He can dunk a basketball from laying down.
He is his most impressive man

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:08 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Not ten inches, eight

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:22 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Joe Biden's IQ is in the top .001% of dead people.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 20:31 | Link to Comment HappyCamper
HappyCamper's picture

Sorry, I simply don't believe your claims of great IQ and wealth.  Having to resort to profanity to express oneself is a sure sign of low intelligence. 

Now back on topic; my was post was tongue in check, but now that I think about it immigration from the south should perhaps seriously be considered to help with the demographics problem.  They're great workers and great people.

Ronald Regan did it and it turned out ok.  As a people, maybe we in the U.S. are a little too shy about letting more people immigrate here who can help.  OTOH, It's also a shame that those same people may vote for the same soulless and irresponsible politicians who got us into this mess.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:20 | Link to Comment The_Dude
The_Dude's picture

Ronald Regan did it and it turned out ok.

You obviouly haven't spent much time in the soon to be failed northern Mexican State of California. If you come to visit, make sure not to make the same mistakes as most do and hide in the American Settlements that still exist or you won't get that warm 3rd world experience.

BTW...I agree with you and expect the planned solution to the economic and demographic cliff is to flood the country with immigrants.  Regrettably, the melting pot concept is dead with most immigrants and now they all look at it as a chance to take over from the weak, non-reproducing Americans and are setting up in enclaves, fighting against pressure to integrate.  Without the integration and Americanization process happening, the 3rd world ideas and cultures they bring with them will take hold and the America you know that was open, accepting and accomodating (wealth, jobs, opportunity) will cease to exist.

I think many are considering an exit.  For the future of my family, I definiitely am.  There is evidence that many of the Elites see this coming and are acquiring their exit paths also.  I just hope it holds togehter long enough for me to make the adjustments necessary.  (FYI...go ahead and call me racist...I will not bother to tell you what you are)

My biggest regret is going to be the millions of Americans that have no options and are trapped watching this once great country turn into a 3rd world cesspool.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:56 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

 

"I just hope it holds togehter long enough for me to make the adjustments necessary."

I just hope your time window is no longer than 30-60 days ... otherwise, IMO, you'll be SOL. Good luck, either way...you're making the wisest decision for your family (though I'm not confident of there being any "Switzerland" for us under the NWO).

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:33 | Link to Comment Colonel
Colonel's picture

"Regrettably, the melting pot concept is dead with most immigrants and now they all look at it as a chance to take over from the weak, non-reproducing Americans and are setting up in enclaves, fighting against pressure to integrate."

Observed that as well. These are not the immigrants of earlier times that were proud to be an American they're just NWO foot soldiers smug in their parasitism, tools that enable the MTB (minions that be) to get around the logistical problems of creating the NWO superstate.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:07 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Sweet man, believe what you want.

I am also married to a muslim woman, more beautiful than any white woman I have been with.

If you think I am making it up, then thats your problem

Also, have you ever met a muslim? Or just listened to some gimps on tv telling you how evil they are?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:45 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

I worked in Iraq for a while, and had Iraqi workers.  They told me muslim women shave their pussies.  Is this true?  Does your wife shave her pussy?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:50 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I have met muslims.  Some of them were white.

The implication that muslim and white are mutually exclusive suggests you or someone has made a serious miscalculation of your IQ.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 21:40 | Link to Comment Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

I also have an IQ in the top .001% btw, and a mathematics degree from Oxford, and have aquired over a ten million in assets, no debt.

Good for you.

So then, the problem is that "education" and "wealth" fails to weed out the assholes along the way.

That's why we're here.

Thanks for piping up and being poster boy.

 

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 07:31 | Link to Comment AlphaDawg
AlphaDawg's picture

Sorry mate, why am I an asshole?

I dont support any government and am actually against multiculturisim as I believe it does not work.

I still believe that people who are muslim are not evil people. If you look at what is being done to the Palestinians, they are angry at the suppression and have waged a war in retaliation, not just attacking because people are of different religions.

I got angry as people are being racist and I, of christian family, have good muslim friends and disagree.

I do have a high IQ and the rest, but I am not perfect either, everyone has problems, but I support peace unlike the trolls on this website.

I actually do not believe an IQ means much either, common sense is a far more powerful tool in life.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 10:59 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

I'll just stick my neck out here and say that apart from your abrasive tone (which elicited the responses above), you're right. I don't buy religion one bit, but for every bad muslim example, one can also find an equally bad Christian, Catholic, Jew, Atheist example. Has anyone heard about the witch burnings in the colonies? How about the Inquisition? Gulag? Take things into historical context before passing such silly negative judgements.

Also, yea, referencing IQ === admittance in eugenics. Be smarter.

Mon, 08/20/2012 - 12:45 | Link to Comment DeadFinks
DeadFinks's picture

What race are Muslims genius? So, anti-Islam is "racist".  You're a fucking idiot.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:18 | Link to Comment boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

LOL

Alpha DAWG,

So you support Islam, but not your parents genersation.

That explains a lot.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 08:18 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Religion is a control tool. It is one of the best way to throw the masses at each other´s throats, so they do not go after their respective rulers. That works equally well with nationalism. Same method to throw masses of different countries at each other´s throats instead of toppling their rulers. Ah.!! I almost forgot minorities. Rule 1.03 for ruling a crowd of people: When you have a problem, minorities are also a good way to deflect attention, so the rulers channel your anger toward a particular people, because ... it is convenient. When you have extremely harsh conditions, do something extreme like a human sacrifice or genocide, like the Mayas, or with the Armenians, jews with Hitler, do a mutual genocide lie the Tutsis and Hutus. Rule 1.04 In case you are running out of minorities, nothing to worry about, you can massacre your own people and do random mass killings as with Staline, the Khmers in Cambodia. Rule 1.05 Short of killing them you can starve them to death on purpose, if you have limited ressources and limited amoumt of bullets or gas (Mao followed this advice). There is nothing like a good old mass murder to deflect attention and try to stay in power. Ah!.... The good old notion of human progress... in mass killings technology has shown some remarkable progress indeed, we have used gas in concentration camps in Poland and Germany and nuclear bombs in Japan. Progress people!! Progress! Sometimes we have to wonder if humanity is just a disease of this planet.... And then comes the Plato of the world, the Mozart of the world, the Goethe of the World, the Isaac Newton of the world and so on and so forth... So what do we do? We stay numb in a perplex state trying to make any sense of all of that...

So a lot of people on this blog do not seem to realize that they do not form opinions on their own, they just repeat other people s opinions. Now to form your own opinion, it is a painful process where you have to make mental efforts and sometimes argue with yourself, question your own beliefs. Philosophy helps.. Read Plato the republic (it is freed), and others and make your own opinion. 

 

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:49 | Link to Comment centerline
centerline's picture

The hero of the thread emerges.  Thank you.  People need to wake the hell up regarding the basic tactics that have been used against them over and over and over.

There is one thing I think is certain though.  The human species is not nearly capable (may never be capable) of really coming to terms with human nature itself.  Cycle after cycle repeating with so much similarity.  But, technology increasing.  Destructive power increasing.  Etc.

 

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Don't know about your IQ etc, but you are not wrong.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 06:52 | Link to Comment Carnegie_IB
Carnegie_IB's picture

making money is the easy part, your challenge will be keeping it. Truth can be stranger than fiction. 

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 06:59 | Link to Comment Carnegie_IB
Carnegie_IB's picture

I have many friends who are muslim and know a lot about many rleigions and scriptures.

 

Mosab Yousef I understand is working on releasing a film to help the Islam community learn more about Islam.  

so help me understand why Islam is so enthusiastic about following a an ancient child molestor who lived in a cave? 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 22:43 | Link to Comment XF
XF's picture

Mislims are a plague upon the earth.    Humanity will not move forward in any meaningful way until that entire grotesque farce of a "religion" is wiped-out.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:29 | Link to Comment Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

The world is being guided further into turmoil by those who enjoy it,

or need it,

enabled by those predisposed, or conditioned, to feed the fire.

It is not religion, it is not race, it is not generation, it is not class --

it is the outliers, willfully or out of ignorance,

sucking the life out of... everything.

 

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 12:55 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Zionists "are a plague upon the earth. Humanity will not move forward in any meaningful way until that entire grotesque farce of a "religion" is wiped-out."

Read the Talmud and compare it with the Quran and make up your own mind about which is the worst.  

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 18:55 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

Sharia law? 

Right now in NYC exists a law giving legal protection for Rabbis to perform briss (for fee of course), suck the baby's penis of the blood (felate the baby), transmit Herpes to the baby, which herpes caused the baby to die.

I know it's wrong, but I wish you god forsaken Rabbincal scum bags and their sycophants ("Synagogue of Satan", Revelation 2:9, 3:9) would just go kill yourselves.

Keep looking for Muslim terrorsists under rocks you stupid, blind, deaf, and dumb, goyim.

Rabbinical daily prayer: "Thank you g-d for not making me a slave, a woman, nor a gentile."

Michael Hoffman's definition of "Judaism", AKA Rabbinical Talmudism": "The worship of the Judaic male as God."

Rabbis: God argued with the Rabbis, the Rabbis won, now God answers to the Rabbis. 

Anti-semite, James Sobran (RIP): "Not someone who hates Jews, but rather someone hated by certain Jews."

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 19:56 | Link to Comment moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

now THAT is what hating and racism looks like. nice lesson by example, jones

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 04:24 | Link to Comment Adahy
Adahy's picture

While I agree that the post was a bit anger-driven; I have to ask:  Do you agree with grown men putting their mouths on 8 day old babies genetals?  I certainly hope not.  I mean, accepting different religions and cultures is one thing, but allowing deviant criminal behavior is quite another.  I didn't even believe it when I read the post.
Then I researched it, and was horrified.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 09:17 | Link to Comment moonshadow
moonshadow's picture

of course not good grief! if that was his only issue i wouldnt have commented. but he DID go just a wee bit further and show his true stripes did he not?

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 13:01 | Link to Comment FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Racism?  Where in his post was there any "racism"?  Are you suggesting that Talmudic "Jews", aka Ashkenazim or Eastern European Kazarians are a race separate from Caucasians?   What race would that be?  Certainly not Semites like the Palestinians, eh?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:03 | Link to Comment Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Again, the government will have to figure out how to convince the old folks to participate before they can play with them.

Maybe they dangle some extra Medicare credits in front of Granny if she'll just get on the damn bus for a Military Mystery Tour.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Anusocracy
Anusocracy's picture

Just tell them the luncheon buffet has been moved to Afghanistan.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:49 | Link to Comment Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

Granny just booked her ticket. I'm taking her to the airport as I write this.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:47 | Link to Comment Angus McHugepenis
Angus McHugepenis's picture

It's a simple choice. They tell them they can die today if they choose not to participate and all entitlements will be cut off immediately, or they can take their chances on a battlefield and perhaps live another day/week/month with 3 hots and a cot.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

There may be a non-SciFi derivative of that coming anyway, but likely not what BIGGOV had in mind. And I am not that fond of green.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 11:23 | Link to Comment LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

 

 

I am surprised no one figured this out yet. Social Security is a wedge issue it will be paid unless the entire government collapses since it is a legally enforceable debt just like any other. Even left as is the only thing that would happen is the benefits would be reduced in the future. The fund does not have the authority to tax, by law it cannot deficit spent.  Social Security is an entirely self funded program ZERO government money goes into Social Security something many don't seem to understand. It has NO EFFECT on the budget period other then when the fund actually cash's in some of it's IOU's like it just started doing. Social Security owned 19% of the debt last year far more then China or any foreign creditor. 

Think about this since it is a legally enforceable debt if anyone actually tried to dismantle the program right now where would they get the money to pay it off remember it was the largest holder of our debt?  If you use entitlement in reference to Social Security in the sense that people are entitled to get back the money they were FORCED to pay in you are correct it's the law. Doesn't matter if it was a Ponzi scheme or not the fault lies with the politicians who passed it into law to begin with long before the boomers who are starting to collect had any say in it. I'm all for reform or getting rid of the program since I don't believe it was Constitutional to begin with but that's water over the damn now just like Obamacare will be in a few years if it's not repealed if you want to correctly phrase something as a welfare program that would be the one that's full of taxes that DO affect the budget. 

Like I said a Wedge issue.

Medicare is the real issue right now that's why they are campaigning on it.

 

The TRUTH About Who Really Owns All Of America's Debt

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-owns-us-debt-2011-7?op=1

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:51 | Link to Comment Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

Bullish. Is it any wonder that Kimberly-Clark is making all-time highs ?

http://www.1800wheelchair.com/siteimages/large/depend-superplus.jpg

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