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America's Discretionary Spending Well Has Run Dry

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The more we dig into the bones of President Obama's new budget plan, the more it becomes clear that, as JP Morgan's Michael Cembalest notes, the battles of the future (among our peak-polarized political class) will be between raising taxes and cutting entitlements as the discretionary spending well is empty. As the Budget Control Act cuts this discretionary spend to a 50-year low (close to only 5% of GDP), it is the rise in entitlements (and of course interest costs) that appear mandatory for now and will need to be 'balanced' with tax revenue growth that is expected to rise from 15% of GDP to 20% of GDP by 2022 (thanks largely to a belief that cyclical recovery will save us). As the real ranks of the long-term unemployed and now disabled benefits receivers swell, it seems clear how the entitlement-taxation see-saw will swing unless there is change everyone can believe in.

 

JP Morgan. The President's Budget - An Unhappy Valentine's Day Card

The battles of the future, after the discretionary spending well is empty

The Administration projects that tax revenues will rise from their current 15% of GDP to 20% by 2022, and that spending will decline from 24% of GDP to 23%. Both numbers need to be dissected in order to make sense of them. The projected revenue increase is as much from an assumed cyclical recovery as it is a product of tax legislation. Secondly, the modest decline in spending as a % of GDP obscures cuts in some categories and increases in others: the Budget Control Acts cut discretionary spending to a 50-year low close to 5% of GDP, but is offset by continually rising entitlement and interest costs (mandatory items). Budget negotiations of the future are likely to revolve around the tradeoffs between tax revenue increases and entitlement reform. The discretionary spending well is empty.

 

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Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:54 | 2166649 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

It's at 1776 levels.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:02 | 2166665 economics1996
economics1996's picture

The interest payments are 8% of the federal budget.  We owe $15 trillion.  One third is short term.  When the inflation becomes official and interest rates raise over 0.08% its game over.

Date stamp mother fuckers-2018.

Washington is signing its own death certificate today by borrowing all that cash from Bernanke.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:51 | 2166856 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You think we keep ZIRP until 2018!  And that would make the debt what?  $55 trillion?!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:05 | 2166910 seek
seek's picture

Inflation will never be official ever again. They'll have the CPI at 1% when food and gas are rising 20% a year. Plan accordingly.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:19 | 2166993 viahj
viahj's picture

whenever i have any of my prep purcahses delivered to me at the office , i still have some of my co-workers sneer and make jokes while they buy purses and shoes and kindles....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:25 | 2167263 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

And when the SHTF, guess who will be first to pay a visit to your cubicle? Those same co-workers who now realize they're up the creek without a pancake. "Can you loan me some of those beans?" Hope you know how to say Go F*** Yourself.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 23:19 | 2168276 Nobody special
Nobody special's picture

As one who got singled out while getting preps at work, and is now unemployed, let me suggest you find an alternate location to receive your preps.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:38 | 2167089 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

The US, with its magic printing press, is claiming to be broke. It must be the people's fault for "not paying their fair share".

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 22:42 | 2168163 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Actually if you add in everything including SS it comes to around 55 Trillion dollars in liabilities but most of that is off the books for a reason.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:02 | 2166673 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

The US government is buying iPads now.  It's all ok.  

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:28 | 2167045 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

nothing new here,... they bought Dell for a decade

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:06 | 2167206 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Dont ya know the keeeds can't learn the 3R's without ipods and ipads?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:11 | 2166711 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

My fellow terrorists:

Did not know any discretionary "au jus" still clung to the sides of the "fiat stew" pot. It's been totally sopped up in blue-collar-ville for sure.

Flash Informant Briefing: US homegrown  AL KADA are easy to spot. If you see someone disguised as an American who is not buying stuff or someone you know has quit attending your blocks Thursday Night "Bunko Party", do not take action that may jeopardize your classified neighborhood snitch status. Instead, please call your precinct's Department of Homeland Security Annex, and / or, Fusion Center  immediately.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:55 | 2166654 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

It's priced in....or it's bullish, or something.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:03 | 2166681 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

Transitory, I believe.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2166722 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

Graphs are "barbarous relics". Only BLS bs is gold.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:57 | 2166657 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

 

 

"Change"...melt it, it's worth more.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:06 | 2166697 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

...and someone's on to that game.  If you go to a laundromat or video arcade and change up some bills for quarters, you won't find a pre-1965 anywhere.  Pre-1981 pennies still in pretty good circulation, tho.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:42 | 2167101 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

Modern nickels are worth 5.6 cents.

coinflation.com

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:03 | 2167192 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Modern nickels are worth 5.6 cents.

Try and order some from your bank...............good luck.

2012's,last year for 75% Cu, and nickel.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:57 | 2166659 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

The Fed will just keep the markets pumped up and create the illusion of wealth. It's all BS....Rally on!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:58 | 2166660 DosZap
DosZap's picture

http://www.businessinsider.com/dallas-fed-texas-charts-2012-2\

 

Not here.................here is why the Uber regulated, and  governmental states legislatures are killing our states.

Get the hell out of the way, and you can thrive and survive.

Commiefornica, and NYC comes to mind.

 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 14:59 | 2166661 GernB
GernB's picture

Taxes as a percent of GDP have been constant between 15% to 20% like... forever. It's not realistic to have a budget predicated on a histroically high level of taxes as a percent of GDP that has held constant  even at Carter vs Regan tax rates.

 

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/12/06/chart-of-the-day-u-s-taxes

 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:18 | 2166744 Dan Conway
Dan Conway's picture

You are being too rational. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:28 | 2167043 reload
reload's picture

English & European taxes would have to be halved to get anywhere near 20pct of GDP. We fucking dream of taxation that low, it's not like the currect 40-45 pct of GDP has even bought us ballanced budgets or anything of value as a society.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:35 | 2166807 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

The tax system is not about raising revenue, it is entirely about rewarding one constituency and punishing another.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:54 | 2167151 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

Oh, if more people knew this.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:40 | 2167314 smb12321
smb12321's picture

In fact, it's hard to think of a more inefficient way of using revenue.  We take it from individuals and companies, send it to state capitals and DC where they (in all their wisdom) then return it to political friends.  Of course, since the vast majority is now going for some type of social program, the amount they can give their buddies is becoming limited.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:16 | 2166664 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Wake up and smell the coffee much Michael?  Obama's whole strategy from day one has been to minimize discretionary spending and make almost all Federal spending mandatory, i.e.  the baseline budget.

Now that 50+% of Americans pay no Fed income tax (and therefore have almost no incentive to restrict how much federal government costs) which way do you think future budget negotiations (entitlement reform vs. higher taxes) are going to swing?

If the economy actually grows significantly and throws off more tax revenue than projected, they'll just expand mandatory spending to fill the gap.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:17 | 2166735 Seer
Seer's picture

Now that 50+% of Americans pay no Fed income tax

"of Americans" means just working, or "all?"  Also, do you have a handy reference?  Thanks!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:23 | 2166749 GernB
GernB's picture

50% of wage earners pay no federal income  taxes.

Edited: Sorry 50% is an exageration it's more lime 45% and it's not all taxes just federal income tax:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/14/pf/taxes/who_pays_income_taxes/index.htm

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:27 | 2166779 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

That shows you how little they make.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:10 | 2166789 Mercury
Mercury's picture

...but not how much they get or will get from the government.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:29 | 2166767 Mercury
Mercury's picture

46% of all tax "units" in 2011 actually

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3057

Use your imagination as to how many voters that implies.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:01 | 2166667 Dealer
Dealer's picture

How sad is this country when Hillary Clinton is the best option for running the World Bank.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:08 | 2166704 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i guess you have forgotten she is a commodities savant...

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:10 | 2166707 Dumpster Fire
Dumpster Fire's picture

BULLish for cattle futures :)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 20:07 | 2167758 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

And why wouldn't Corzine be the best option?  Anyone?  Bueller?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:00 | 2166668 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

We've only just begun........to wither and wan.

Sad really. There was great potential until the natives realized they could vote themselves an extra large scoop of the groups' ice cream.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:39 | 2166815 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Absolutely. We are meeting our end with a whimper instead of a bang.   Posters at ZH blame the rich, the banks, Wall Street, Europe and the FED but they elected officials who promised we could live beyond our means forever.   Anyone who spoke brutally honest about our situation was relegated to the back woods. 

Greek people are not lazy or stupid but they convinced themselves that they could live off someone else's dime and never suffer consequences. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:01 | 2166670 kralizec
kralizec's picture

Yeah, we're not taxed enough, that's it!

/sarc

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:02 | 2166675 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

When our "growth" industries are being a waiter at Applebees, "barrista" serving latte's, being a tattoo "artist" and selling cell phones.....don't expect much in the way of disposable incomes.  Kinda hard to spend money you don't have since the credit well has about run dry.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:00 | 2166892 Seer
Seer's picture

It's amazing how many people don't make this connection.  There's been such brainwashing going on, that EVERYONE can be a millionaire (as hyper-inflation sets in this will be true!), that everyone is blind to the fact that it's all a big fucking hoax (perpetuated by the continuing ruling class).

One of the best lessons on this I ever encountered was sitting in this multimillionaire's living room and hearing him talking (one on one) about some new proposed development.  He didn't buy the BS.  Plans that he got a hold of (he owned waterfront property along the port where the plans were to take place and they never bothered to talk/consult with him!) showed young people strolling the promenade; ha ha!  Yeah, the same young people who will be slaving away at all the low-end service jobs and serving old rich people retired along the waterfront will have disposable income to apply to the very area!  This was many years ago and the project finally collapsed in the big real estate bust; no surprise to me (and the man whom I talked to had passed away many years ago, so he never got to see what he too likely figured was going to happen).  So, a service/tourism centric project that, like all significant projects started up around that area, failed to really provide for a better future for the younger people.  Developers and their pocketed politicians screwing future generations....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:03 | 2166677 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Of course it has! It's full of , Walking DEAD Banksters!  As John Belushi and Dan Aykroyd always said????  Always save the LIVER!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:03 | 2166678 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

US Indiscretion: So the US spends 10X more on its Military Complex than China (the closest competitor). A sum vastly more than the crumbs thrown to the poor on social programs.

If only we had a Nobel Peace Prize winner in the white house.

 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:16 | 2166734 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Medicare, SS, and Unemployment are about, I think, 2 to 3 times more than MIC stuff. But that money doesn't get funneled so much to big players I think. There is a need to cut both warfare and welfare in America.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:51 | 2166858 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Medicare & SS are paid by taxes on wages. They are not give away programs. SS would be in surplus if the politicians didn't loot it. And Medicare would cost a quarter of what it costs if the politicians would truly reform the Healthcare system (meaning cost controls). JMHO.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:21 | 2167004 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Alex Kitner,

Medicare & SS are paid by taxes on wages. They are not give away programs. SS would be in surplus if the politicians didn't loot it.

Bingo, forget trying to get that fact thru about 50% of the under 30's crew here.They haven't been pillaged for 30-40yrs.

They think we get this shit for free.

If I borrowed a $100k from you, and told you I would pay you back, and did not...........would you say Oh, well,thats the way it goes!!!.

Or hire Guido to F-me up ?.

The latter I hope..................theft is theft, no matter who is stealing it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:41 | 2167096 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Put. Down. The. Kool-Aid.

But yes, I understand how you're correct. If criminals would actually provide efficient goods and services, why everything would be just peachy, huh?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:45 | 2167340 smb12321
smb12321's picture

As a factual matter you are dead wrong. The average SS recipient takes approx $100,000 out more than they put in.  For Medicaid it is even higher.   As for cost controls, I know of no hospital or doctor who has not cut to the bone (pardon the pun) on costs.  As most will tell you, the biggest rise in costs are from front office, insurance and paperwork.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 20:14 | 2167777 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

A lot of reciepients Die before they collect a dime. And even more die just one or two years after starting to collect.  All of the Money they paid in then goes back to the Government and not to their Heirs.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 00:47 | 2168515 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I went to dinner with a 15 and some SESs. Lots die before they collect but if you ask the middle and upper government bureaucrats, not enough die early.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 01:28 | 2168590 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

... which is a crime an' a shame.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:23 | 2167262 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

SS and Unemployment might go directly to the people, but Medicare is a subsidy for big medicine. At one point, there was competition in medicine in the US. Early last century Carnegie and Rockefeller drug money (big pharma of the time) funded one school, the alopaths (MDs). They didn't necessarilly have the best medicine compared to the naturopaths, osteopaths, and homeopaths, but they had the most profitable, and with a little help from Washington, the modern medicine monopoly took control of America's health. Unfortunately, this group is alergic to the word "cure", and would rather sell drugs to "manage" symptoms than actually help anyone. Today, modern medicine is the third most common cause of death, and one of biggest leeches on the American pocketbook. Their skill in putting you back together when you have trauma is unequalled, but their drug-based solutions for chronic conditions can be outright dangerous. Most people would do better seeing a good nutritionist.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 01:35 | 2168604 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

See: 'The Flexner Report' and how it was used by the Robber Barrons to create one of the biggest monopolistic scams (AMA) ever perpetrated on the American public.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 20:08 | 2167764 Grinder74
Grinder74's picture

It would have to be someone who spoke Austrian though.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:04 | 2166687 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

Raising taxes or cutting entitlements?  How about eliminating at least 2/3 of all government departments; cut all government pay and pensions/benefits to no more than twice the median private sector ones; disband all regulators since they only serve the criminals; cut the military to meet the needs of defending the homeland, and only the homeland; all Congressional pay cut by 2/3 and all pensions calculated pro rata.  Oh yes, and 2 term limits.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:20 | 2166752 adr
adr's picture

terrorist :)

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:42 | 2166822 smb12321
smb12321's picture

Cutting 2/3 has zero effect.   Almost 70% of the budget is in entitlements of some kind, another 16% to defense and 8% for debt payments.  You're making the same mistake of attacking the 5% left over.  Congressional pay cuts sound good but they are at the same level as 1950 - approx .2% of the budget. 

We MUST return to a strong dollar, savings, prudence and civic pride and no, I don't see that happening in my future.

 

 

 

 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:26 | 2167272 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

If you have a chance to cut out the cancer, cut out the whole thing. Leave 1/3 and it will kill you.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:05 | 2166688 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

Portfolio: Falsified Deficit Statistics in Europe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmYkXmZ-YXw&feature=g-all-u&context=G294b79bFAAAAAHgAAAA

 

We in America could learn a LOT! from Greece and / or Spain.. or the PIGS in General!

we just need to lie more as a Country!

Look how well it works with Job Numbers!

Lets just pretend we have LOTS AND LOTS! of Money to Spend!

Wall Street does! why do we only Print for Wall Street? we should Print for We the People as well!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:07 | 2166691 Agent P
Agent P's picture
"America's Discretionary Spending Well Has Run Dry"

Try telling that to my wife!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:11 | 2166713 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

We did, and she kicked us out of the bed. You get the same treatment too? No respect I tell ya, no respect these days!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:00 | 2166884 Agent P
Agent P's picture

Well...since we're sharing, I'll send you your portion of her credit card bill.  Anyone else out there tapping it?  This could end up being a win for me!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:14 | 2166731 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Will KY help?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:40 | 2166817 bigerny
bigerny's picture

KY will only give you the illusion she respects you.

It's still dry.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:30 | 2167049 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Just eases the pain.....you still know you're getting fucked in the ass.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:06 | 2166693 DosZap
DosZap's picture

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2012/0214/Congress-poised-to-scale-back-unemployment-benefits-from-99-weeks?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+StatelineorgRss-TaxesBudget+(Stateline.org+RSS+-+Taxes+&+Budget)

 

Get this,NOW that the UE rate is getting better.............................LOL

These morons are going to 75 weeks,wait till they cut them off after(IF) Ohama gets re-elected.(an automatic since the Fed is paying for his re-election.........................IMHO)

The the Pb flies.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:07 | 2166696 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Everyone needs to look up exactly what the fucking government considers "manditory" and "discretionary".

Apparently, empire building and unnecessary wars are in fact "manditory".  Go ahead, cut the discretionary spending to fucking zero.  You might be suprised how much of that spending actually leads to improvements that impact your life directly.  Fucking bring it, there is a very real cost for creating capital without adding and real fucking value.  Know the real value of your labor? we are about to find out.  Again, fucking bring it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:17 | 2166982 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

LawsofPhysics


You and I.. and our brethren are Fucked! Read below as to why.

I am sorry! I would have happily fought for your freedom and everyone else’s freedom as well.. but it is not to be.

 

I have spent some time talking to different people..

I on purpose have engaged different people, that have varying socio-economic stations in life.. and by and large! over the entire spectrum.. people, We the People.. are fucking beyond stupid.

people will say! I am not making this up! I feel like he’s a nice guy! i feel like he’s trying to do a good job! I feel like we need new blood in the white house..

all of these feelings.

I ask people about Gold (silver is fat to complicated for simple minded or proven to be stupid folk).. and they say! I shit you not! that Gold is expensive! LOL!

I mention the amount of printing that has taken place..

they say it is expensive..

I mention that sugar is up over 500% and gold is nowhere near that.. it is still expensive..

The Bottom line.. even when I try to engage people that I would have assumed.. could grasp the numerical facts, thusly making some sense of their or our situation.. BUT! NO! Nothing, not even a lil bit of common sense shines thru that cloak of dullness.. that they have dawned!

 

People have made themselves stupid! And those people, the Majority of Americans have decided to stay there.

 

America is not dead because of the lack of Cheap Energy..

America is not dead because of its transition into a sustainable socialist society.

America is not dead because Wall Street paid the Lobby who then paid Washington DC to Gut Americas Manufacturing Base.

America is not dead because of the Taxes that are paid by the poor and not paid by the rich.

 

America is dead because the Majority is stupid.. and you can’t fix stupid.. Especially when it is self inflicted!

 

America can NOT! Recover.. America will never recover! Because Consensus Building in the Land of the stupid is a Lost Fucking Cause!

 

The Majority Rules!

The Majority is Stupid!

And not ALL of us combined here or in ALL! the chat-rooms around America could educate enough of them to make a difference in this or the next life time!

The Majority in the Chat-rooms is Stupid as well! The majority is more interested in Feeling Right!

 

This is why America is Fucked!

This is why we are ALL Fucked!

Madison Avenue Won A LONG FUCKING TIME AGO!

 

So! Stick to the Hot button issues that the sheep have been trained to jump for and ignore Reality! The Owners on Wall Street have plans for ALL of us!

 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:46 | 2167119 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Stupidity has paid out great dividends up until now. It still will continue to do so, but just not to the stupids who are about to discover (or not) the true price of their apathy.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:21 | 2167247 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

I know what you mean. All this bad news has put me over the edge and into a depressionary tail spin.

I had to take a couple weeks off work to mourn the death of Whitney Houston....and I may have to extend that time off further depending on what happens with the Indianapolis Colts and Peyton Manning not willing to communicate and reach some decision on what will happen with his future with the franchise.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 18:09 | 2167433 Kali
Kali's picture

JW, this is the one bigger truth that no one wants to admit.  We're (meaning the U.S.) too fucking stupid to get out of this.  Contrary to what "they" all want you to believe, none of this is rocket science.  Live below your means, don't spend more than you take in, save your earnings, treat others as you would want to be treated, keep your nose on your own face, clean up after yourself, be productive and better your community.  The older I get, the more I thank, admire and respect my great- and grand- parents that  taught me these simple truths and some of them had NO formal education at all (it wasn't my parents, they were into the whole materialism/get rich/what will the neighbors think thing).   The collapse of this civilization is in full swing, everything is dysfunctional -our families, our governments, our financial systems, our businesses,  our schools, our hospitals,  everything.  It's all FUBAR. I am also so grateful to the Tylers and ZH that I have at least one sanctuary of reason and freedom in my life, it's already so unbearable as it is. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 00:57 | 2168535 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

I Love Ya Bro!

I mean it too!

From the bottom of my Heart!

I Love Everyone here!

even the people i disagree with!

becuase even they have a clue!

 

SO! Please Hang in there! You deserve a Break and it will come! just hang in there!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:09 | 2166705 yogibear
yogibear's picture

I see the booming business at the dollar stores and low-end side.  More people are dumping the name brands for the discount/no-frills side.  The big box stores have priced themsevles out. 

Soon Tata can sell their "peoples car" in the US. That's the direction the country is headed. 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:38 | 2166812 DosZap
DosZap's picture

yogi,

I see the booming business at the dollar stores and low-end side

BEWARE the Dollar stores.

Check some prices there (food) compared to your regular Krogers, TomThumbs,etc.( they also have their own Private label brands).

There are less expensive prices at those, than the $ stores.(esp food)

They have joined the Scam game.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2166719 hognutz
hognutz's picture

Oh yea-pre revolutionary ejaculation man.....

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2166720 BeerBrewer09
BeerBrewer09's picture

<----this video never gets old

<----this video should be our national anthem

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhnUgAaea4M

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:31 | 2166793 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

BeerBrewer, double click on both red and green.  Fuck yeah.  

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:13 | 2166727 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

It's transitory- we'll grow out of this. Heard it on CNBC

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:48 | 2167126 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Wait, I thought we're going to "muddle through?"

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:19 | 2166743 DosZap
DosZap's picture

cut all government pay and pensions/benefits to no more than twice the median private sector ones

TWICE???, THESE FOLKS PRODUCE NOTHING!!,except RED tape.

They are useless,and actually do serious damage to the common good of the country for a minimum of 80% of all their positions.

But, in order to establish a EU type economy(which has worked so well), we must have more gov folks working than private sector, and at 2x's the going rates.

This is how to establish SOCIALISM.

NO one is going vote themselves out of their lifestyle..

As for Congress, they must give up their special retirement plans, and get on SS, like the rest.Two terms MAx, OK.

And NONE can work for a Lobbyist after those two terms in any capacity.

NO 100% salary after X # of years of service, most are wealthy before they get there

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:53 | 2166866 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The sad part is that "twice" is a major concession for them.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:19 | 2166753 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

sept 3-6:  charlotte, NC = DNationalConvention

the $500 Treasury checks4all will be announced by th 4th0'july and the checks will be mailed in august

b/c prez0 has presided over the worst economic debacle in 80 years and we still have a "strong dollar" and a wunnerful future getting assfuked, i think this would be just wunnerful for everybuddy and a better idea and a lot less risky than having these shitheads go "QE" with thePeople'sHousing MBS and Treasuries

pay us some fuking green, keep away from more complicated "programs" than this

see what happens, mrPrez0:  tell the kids you're gonna stay @ 1600, but why take chances?

how eZ is this gonna be?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:28 | 2166784 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Slewie, the Forrest Gump card was used yesterday!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:50 | 2167135 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

$500!!!

Why I can leverage that into 250 PowerBall tickets!

I"m gonna be rich, biotch!

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 12:14 | 2169850 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Plus a free cell phone that tells you when and where to riot.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:26 | 2166776 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

This is all wrong. Since ( at least for now, since ex vice prez Cheney let slip ) deficits don't matter, our leaders will just spend and print ourselves into whatever utopia we choose. No need to choose between taxing or cutting entitlements at all.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:28 | 2166780 adr
adr's picture

Idiocracy isn't a movie.... It is a documentary.

An old guy at a restaurant told me the other day. Go buy a home with 5 bedrooms for pennies on the dollar and make freinds with 5 good looking loose women. It will be the best investment you'll ever make when prostitution is legalized in a couple years. Happenned in Germany, it'll happen here.

Maybe merging the whorehouse with Starbucks isn't a bad idea.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:43 | 2166823 DosZap
DosZap's picture

adr,

Sound like the Florida Co-eds, advertising on a  new site as Sugar Baby's.

They make an agreement for full time expenses, and are avail for anything the Daddy Warbucks wants sexually...........

They do not consider this being a whore, they consider this as economic salvation for an education, and everything else.

Hundreds are doing it.And plenty of high rollers are taking care of these 19-20 yr olds.100% of their financial needs,for everything.

They see this as relationship building,not Prostitution.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:11 | 2166938 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Better get 10 bedrooms. Repubs are gonna outlaw contraception. Gawd told them to do it. Or sorry... That was Carl Rove.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:01 | 2167179 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Alex Kintner

Repubs are gonna outlaw contraception

Alex,be real.

They are just not forcing it on the population like the Fascist in Thief,and making you and I pay for it.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:46 | 2167346 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If we can just get the batshit-crazy Christian Scientists into significant political power, we can solve our Medicare/Medicaid problems by making the same argument that "we" shouldn't be forced to help pay for any medical treatment at all.

Freedom of religion means we all have to adapt to the lowest common denominator.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 18:39 | 2167515 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

What people fail to realize is that it is far cheaper for an insurance company to provide contraceptives than to end up paying for doctors visits/tests/delivery/followups for thousands of unwanted pregnacies and babies.

Thus, your insurance is cheaper when the insurance company covers contraception. Anything else is a discussion between you and your gawd.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 20:21 | 2167801 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Welfare Moms will not use contraceptives.  Otherwise it would cut into their Income.  All they have to do is pop out another Baby and they get another check for 18 years.  No questions asked.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 21:10 | 2167902 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Yeah, could you PLEASE tell your friends to quit the rutting until they've figured out the whole "food/air" thing?

(hat-tip to dear old Bill H.)

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 12:18 | 2169880 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

End the Cash for Bastards program now. Mandatory sterilzation (depo/norplant) in order to receive any welfare subsidies. 

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 12:36 | 2169980 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

A lot of welfare moms are devout Catholics.  It would be a violation of the first amendment to force contraception on them.

Besides, even if they aren't, there are laws preventing the government from using the believers' monies for such evil purposes.  Heh.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 14:04 | 2170444 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

I find it hard to believe devout Catholics are having children out of wedlock for the sole purpose of taking the working public's money to fund their bastard offspring. Kind of the opposite of devout Catholicism, hmm?

But while we are apparently discussing this phenomenon in an alternate reality, then I'm a Mithraic Sirusian Atlatl. It's against my religion to pay taxes to fund my own dispossession. Guess I'm hereby protected by that old First Amendment now, huh?

End the Cash for Bastards program now. It is a dysgenics program, by any definition.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:17 | 2171615 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I find it hard to believe devout Catholics are having children out of wedlock for the sole purpose of taking the working public's money to fund their bastard offspring.

Well, I'd say talk to Waterfallsparkles, she's apparently the one who knows all the welfare moms who intentionally have kids to add another $100/month to their dole-payments.

As to discussion about who is or isn't a devout Catholic, all I can say is that the welfare moms I've known who kept squeezing out kids were, in fact, women who were philosophically opposed to abortion, and generally were just a bit too impulsive (or stupid?) to use contraception.

I suspect you're misunderstanding my point: the government has seen fit to protect the Catholics from "having to pay tax money" for birth control.  Such a law would need to change before you can start up your eugenics program.

I am all for helping depopulate the trailer parks, though.  The kids deserve better than parents like that.

I'd add I really appreciate the honesty.  Not many people are nearly authoritarian enough to actually support the idea of government-induced sterilization.  But I know you guys exist--jeez, look at the last 12 years of escalating government control of everyone's life.  Clearly that's not an accident.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:27 | 2166782 non_anon
non_anon's picture

ha ha, well, it was a good run, pffft, not!

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 15:54 | 2166872 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Well, he's cutting something out of the budget. Thankfully, it's nothing we need.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/16/obama-budget-food-safety-microb...

President Barack Obama's proposed budget would eliminate the nation's only program that regularly tests fruits and vegetables for deadly pathogens, leaving public health officials without a crucial tool used to investigate deadly foodborne illness outbreaks.

The budget plan the president sent to Congress Monday would ax the Agriculture Department's tiny Microbiological Data Program, which extensively screens high-risk fresh produce throughout the year for bacteria including salmonella, E. coli and listeria.

 

Listeria - wasn't that a Def Leppard song from the 1980s? Hehe.

Bad joke. Both the story and my one-liner.

Only, the story isn't funny or made-up.

Damn liberal! Commie! Trying to make us eat unhealthy foods and be all sick and stuff! Socialist!

Now go eat your peas. Enjoy the extra-special bacteria.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:02 | 2166895 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

What ARE you talking about? No discretionary spending indeed..

I still have plenty of checks in my checkbook.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:26 | 2167032 DosZap
DosZap's picture

America is dead because the Majority is stupid.. and you can’t fix stupid.. Especially when it is self inflicted!

Beg to disagree with you, not self inflicted, it was a long process thru our Public Educations systems, that where taken over by Progressives, and Commies.Try finding any conservative Professors in our systems of higher learning...............maybe 5%.

The rest are Socialists, and Marxists, and Progressives

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 12:21 | 2169906 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

"The Long March through the Institutions", sayeth the Frankfurt School.

Anybody not stupified gets taken out by (Marxist) judicial activism and Administrative measures.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 16:27 | 2167038 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

Does anyone even begin to believe that Mandatory Spending and Interest will go down before going back up again. 

It will be parabolic by 2016.

Reminds me of the saying.....

47.2% of all statistics are made up.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:06 | 2167207 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

On returning to a gold standard ..

My fellow comrade terrorist suspects,

This bugs the shit out of me. Let's say that the corrupt busboys farting and fondling in our houses of government, have, during one of those many ambien resistant fear filled nightmares stealing their sleep every night of their fucking fraudulent worthless lives, wake up drenched in sweat and have, as boy love addicts sometimes (and often) do, to an epiphany, u-no, like one of them "moment's of clarity", AND come to the realization the best hope they have for a negotiated arbitration of their well documented malfeasance, in lieu of a Columbian Necktie AND THEY QUIT GAMING THE FUCKING VOTES IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES - and Dr Paul has the pen.

So how does this move to gold happen?

How is it alloted? The little red conspiracy demon whispering in ear says "open your eyes, this was the endgame all along ..."

If gold is alloted based on the number of outstanding counterfeit USDs , we're gonna get screwed. The counterfeit print has ONLY BEEN GOING TO THE SUITES RUNNING THE PONZI! Next to the Banksters astronomical stack of USDs, main streets pile is so insignificant as to be invisible.

Most of the USDs NOT HELD by main street would have to be burned. Talking "gold standard" and "doing gold standard" are two different things -and your humble narrator too lazy to even start to research for the "plan" to to do that.

Signed, Perplexed

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:57 | 2167391 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

...we're gonna get screwed...

I don't see why you sign "Perplexed." 

Sounds like you understand perfectly what's going to happen.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 19:18 | 2167617 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

USD coupons printed to bail PONZI particpants used to buy the unmarketable "notional" position (toxic) (and probably booked to cover another infinite tell of swaps booked as dimensionless notional assets, well those USDs, they could be "retired". Once the books get opened it be easy to trace route it. SHait that would be about 7 Trillion USDs - back gold to maybe 200 / 300 USD units?

It was all funny money anyway - burn it. Wealth is finite, Capital flows should never exceed the underlying pool of "wealth", right? Basic law: The conservation of mass and energy - they will always equal one - wealth should be a measure of enlightenment or prowess of craft or density of orgasm - but "conservation law", that'd be g*d's law by cracky!

 

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 19:51 | 2167709 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Wealth is finite, Capital flows should never exceed the underlying pool of "wealth", right?

Yeah, I don't think the second bit follows from the first.  This is the problematic realization of the Austrian school. 

Demand for any given resource or commodity can drive "price" completely out of bounds, but price-determination mechanics can operate independently of that "finite wealth" assumption.

Money is a bit too abstract as a concept to be properly modeled using classical physics.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 14:09 | 2170485 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Total wealth "capacity" would remain constant. Innovation would simpley transfer or redirect portions of wealth to that sweet spot in the market where the innovation has occurred.

Future value is often confused, or substituted with notional value.Future value(s) can never exceed total wealth units available. IT HAS TO COME FROM SOMEPLACE OTHER THAN THIN AIR!

Wealth is finite already - it's just diluted because our current "paper medium of wealth" is easy to counterfeit. Any derived notional value currently measured in USD units would have to be re-dimensioned as a non-convertible promissory unit instead of a convertible transaction (example USD) unit.

When a commodity prices beyond the market's ability to purchase - it just won't sell. Innovation may find a more affordible substitute - and the expensive commodity's pricing power would diminish - or - it will have to reprice to a more attractive, affordable level.

Artificial shortages are used to enhance the pricing power of a commodity all the time. Diamonds come to mind. Oil comes to mind.When they get too pricey - they don't get purchased - and (eventually) inventory glut will bring prices down.

Physics is a perfect model for a monetary system ... another axiom perhaps: Wealth can be neither created nor destroyed . it can only be converted from one asset (or commodity) to another, But, wealth can never exceed the value of the underly.

That's not too hard - that's the way household budgets work - right? We just have to distinguish between "promissory" and "monetary" units of measure.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 18:24 | 2171641 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Interesting stuff, can you clear it up?

Total wealth "capacity" would remain constant.

Who determines what "total wealth capacity' is?

Any derived notional value currently measured in USD units would have to be re-dimensioned as a non-convertible promissory unit instead of a convertible transaction (example USD) unit.

What is the function of the non-convertible promissory unit?  If it's non-convertible, how I do exchange my future earnings for any actual physical wealth?  Lay out the working a simple example, like a mortgage for a house.

Sun, 02/19/2012 - 01:27 | 2174376 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Who determines what "total wealth capacity' is?

Blankenfein ... Romney  . Bernank .. Vlad the Impaler .. (those guys are great at dinner parties) . but before that - deep back rant ...

First problem is that the commons has allowed itself to be tagged, not only as a pool of terror suspects, but [also] as is as "consumers", the dregs at the teat! The commons needs to show it weight and change it's image.

The real "consumers" are government and houses of the Global Cluster F*ck Fractional Reserve Usury Debt and Debt Insurance Exchange! In America, we manufacture debt and rehypothecated insurance policies for pawn tickets on a pawn ticket for another pawn ticket, infinity..  We need to exclude bailed out ghost casino poker chips from the money supply to arrive a a gold standard based on USD.

What determines ,,:Do not know - thinking the issue more about distribution once a standard was implemented. The standard could be gold - shit it could be something abstract - maybe as abstract as the notion of "wealth". Lots of deep questions there. Some say wealth is the driver of innovation - other say innovation is the fruit of our competitive nature - innovation is it's own reward.

Why did some guy or gal chisel out the first arrow head a zillion years ago? Why did Mr Coat and Mr Hanger invent the "coat hanger"? Individuals do stuff cause it makes them feel cool about themselves not cause they wanna be the guy in a Mexican Beer Commercial..

And sometimes humans achieve secret little epiphanic jewels all on their own without any witnesses- it's mans nature to understand "the magic" and to use that understanding for the betterment of his community, The current abstraction to measure of wealth may do more to stifle than enhance innovation,

What is the relation of price to value - only the market knows .. well used to anyway .. the HFT's tell us, as well as each other, now and London's Orcs still have sanctuary in the shadow. Determining "real" value not easy. Uncle says. "Don't buy or shoot something you can't eat."  Life is a cost and debt is revenue.

Proposed redistribution of the "standard", whatever it be .. if we use a USDs (money supply) to  gold  ... then .. maybe ..

Differentiating between real USDs and casino chips is important. Excluding chips from the outstanding USD supply would be necessary.

Guessing a suggestion .. sort real collateral from casino collateral. Use the number of USD that represent "real collateral" and divide it into the weight of the gold owned (outright) by the commons. Voila a gold reimbursement / sovereign conversion ratio: a gold standard not diluted by casino chips.

UST Bondholders may have to take a haircut, The "full faith and credit" "promise: on USTs ain't like signed in blood - they are investment and risk is attached, China will come out as one winner - the osmosis of US owned trade secrets and patents no doubt saved trillions in R&D and industrial espionage costs. Anybody that bought casine chip bonds had to see this coming - if not in on it - too bad  - and if they wrote insurance on the other side - f* em - it's funny money - ghost casino chips - melt them into coffee table top art and howk it at flea market booth - if you own a bond learn to settle up with your f*ing broker - you and he, not we, signed off that deal.

It's simple. Good ideas will attract parked wealth flow and stagnant ineffective ideas will have to survive on reserves till they re-muster or default.

The notion of modern day corporations is not the notion when rules were laid down. Corps used to serve as a funding source for a project - never meant to live for ever or trade as a commodity or become holding company monopolies.

Wealth can neither be created nor can it destroyed.

Debt + Cash can never exceed exchange unit supply. In the real world output + input can never exceed total available capacity.

How you do it?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:11 | 2167222 rlouis
rlouis's picture

-1 gov. employee (wages) + 1 u.e. claim for a year * X gov employees laid off = net [simple] savings on budget

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 18:23 | 2167476 Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

Spent several summers framing houses with pneumatic 10 penny nail guns. Packed 50 nails per clip. Once asked boss about the cost of nail guns - he said it didn't matter cause the money item was the nails. Had a X-mas break job hanging sheet rock. And end of day the boss would come by to instruct as to how many sheets of brand new sheet rock we were to pulverize - that's an example of a cost plus contract. When planes copter's are missioned for combat they leave with full ordinance and return empty.: war, grasshopper, is not about the guns - it's about the bullets - it's about maintenance contracts - it's about real estate contracts and bribes and logistics to base our sons daughters fathers mothers in the middle of a pile of humanity that hate them because of what drone operators working for the company (Xe contractors fly us drone sorties - mercs - mercs with iron clad "never to be prosecuted for anything" agreements fly sorties and unloading 2 to 6 million dollars of genocide ordinance on household insisting on closing bathroom shutters when tony bathes with millions of cost plus hunter killer fire from sky and millions in maintenance for everysortie.

Less than 1% of government are our so called political employees - they do hire sayans to whisper in their ears BUT - the rest are rank and file salt of the earth types.

But, for the politicos - and bag fillers at the PONZI Agency - ITS BEEN A F*CKING WAR ON TERROR GOLD RUSH KILL FEST AND NO BUDGET REQUIRED!

When was the last time the republic had even a official pretense of a formal and constitutionally required budget? What are we paying those child those guys for?

The only people holding this confused can of worms together are our rank and file civil and uniform service employees - the political agency bosses and their lackies are snorting poppers in the Bahama's and enjoying samples shipped in "fresh every night" from Haitian orphanages. Manning was rank and file - there's a whole bunch of em

But the politicos - u-no all they did was slow down spending / borrowing - u-no, those guys we pay to manage the republics balance sheet - you know - those carny barkers we entrusted with our authorizations - the ones rigging the caucuses - you know the "so called" executive the "so called" congress and senate - wekk those gusts haven't written since no one knows f*ing when - well them - u-no, the politicos they be both problematic and [fortunately] disposable. Bout as useful as a tit on a lizard.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 17:42 | 2167320 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Well, I either buy food or pay bills at my discretion....so that's somethin.

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 18:07 | 2167423 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Who says "mandatory spending" is mandatory?  Isn't it all discretionary?

Thu, 02/16/2012 - 18:40 | 2167520 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

If that's a sincere question, you totally fail on basic civics education.  Come on, already--you're not really that poorly-informed, are you?

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 01:15 | 2168573 SilverFocker
SilverFocker's picture

Civics, WTF...do they still teach that? our kids are fukin retards when it comes to Civics. Hell most fucktards could not tell you who their house bitch is, yet that same bitch ass slams them daily.

Fri, 02/17/2012 - 06:19 | 2168814 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Only speaking for myself, but my discretionary spending well appears to be a dry hole. Obviously I must be some sort of rare exception to the generally improving economy. Anecdotally, Harley Davidson is still selling more of its superfilous bikes....that miner's canary is still chirping away happily

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