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America's Future, Interrupted
The ghost of America's future pays us a visit, telling us all we need to know in five simple charts.
Starting here:
Here next:
Here next:
Here next:
And finally here:
Good night.
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nobody said anything about killing granny. if people don't want to take care of their own elderly, why should it be my damn problem?
bullish on catfewd either way.
PUT ANOTHER WAY: THE FED IS BAILING OUT BANKS AND YET THERE IS NO SUCH BANK LEFT THAT ON AVERAGE PERFORMS BANKING DUTIES -- THIS IS NOT SHRODINGER NOR IS THIS CABINET OF DR. CALIGARI -- THIS IS ALTER-WORLD SCHIZOID GRAND FUCKERY HAPPENING RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES!
Get out there and do something constructive. What a whiner!
That's not really possible working in the system anymore.
The young guys can do things, and should. But they'll have to do them in black/gray markets.
The "on the books" market is OWNED by the state and bleeds participants dry.
AGREED. ON THE BOOKS = BENT OVER WITH NO LUBE = SOME GOVERNMENT PIECE OF SHIT CAN LOOK YOU UP (NO PRIVACY) AND TAX YOU (WITHOUT REPRESENTATION) THEREBY ROBBING YOU.
OH AND YOU COME TO TYLER DURDEN'S HOUSE (WHERE WE SQUAT AND PAY NO RENT, JUST THE $$$ MOVIE BUDGET) AND YOU FUCKING DARE VOTE ME DOWN?!! I AM MOTHERFUCKING TYLER DURDEN.
Hey spondoolixs
What else do you likxs...?
Well said ...
But what are you doing to disrupt the plans of the "statist, control-freak set of looters and moochers at the helm of nearly every government on the planet who are strangling any and every opportunity"?
If you think your generation has it hard, wake up! The 60's and the 70's were not a Golden Age of Aquarius.
Here's what the "boomer generation" has done for you:
In short - we made the system change. If you are half as pissed off as we were then - WHY ARE YOU NOT MAKING THINGS CHANGE ?
barliman
These are primarily social issues which completely ignore the economic situation both then and now. How exactly were you able to protest and still have money to live? My guess is the economic situation was much better then. A trivial job could fund all your goals including the massive protests you Boomers are fond of taking credit for.
Ignorance is bliss for you, eh?
The ecology issue was an economic issue from day one. We had to find a scrap dealer to take what we collected for free before we started collecting it. We had to borrow someone's dump truck to hold what we collected. We had to pool our money to pay for the gas for the truck. That was at the local level where we also arranged to get some coverage by the local paper to make people aware of what we were doing and why. On a national level,the argument was that cleaning up the smokestacks, the drainage and the stuff just buried somewhere would cost too much. So we learned early what the actual costs were (i.e the scrap dealer was making out like a bandit on the bottles alone. He came out a little ahead on the newspapers and was a visionary because he just kept the aluminum we had already separated for him for a few years until the market for it bloomed. Friends in college did papers breaking down the actual cost of air scrubbers and filtering systems and a dozen other things to prove it could all make economic sense.
What we accomplished was not done by massive protests. I'd be surprised at your feeble minded logic if you didn't display it at every turn - so I won't ask you to figure out on your own how we did it.
Let's see if there are people brighter than you who can.
Some important points for those paying attention: Trivial jobs did not exist back then. The economy was much smaller than it is today. Regardless of your perspective on things GOOD social justice is ALWAYS economic justice. As my grandmother taught me, "The Irish were more hated than the blacks back in your great grandfather's days. Black men were given jobs where the Irish were not given the time of day. The way we achieved equality was they worked harder at any job they could find than anyone else would. They saved their money and spent it wisely. Im America, any group of people who work and have money can have equality."
Life is hard and not fair. If this is news to you or you have a problem with that being how it is - you are in the wrong place.
barliman
Or in other words..
- sent jobs to China so they could polute the shit out of everything
- brought on the age of Political correctness, cultural marxism, planned cities which resulted in reverse racism and the destruction of black communities (BRAVO) while taking away property rights
- brought on the age of a Proffesional fulltime military enabling 1984 style perpetual war. I am sure many can thank you for that.
- brought on the age where a woman has to work and the age of latch key kids, radical feminisim and the destruciton of the family unit in favor of the state
-watergate hearings? oh great job... enenmies list unaccepablte...... LOL!!!!!!! thats a riot.
You've learned the "straw man" technique - say something and therefore it is true, right?
Horseshit!
People buying lower cost goods produced in China sent jobs to China. If you don't like that fact, complain to the mirror.
The next generations spending more time in front of TV ("ooh, you've got MTV.") and listening to celebrities and rock stars rather than working values out for themselves brought on the age of Political Correctness. Planned cities grew out of the Great Society and a Democratic vision of how to control a powerful voting block. The disintegration of the black family through welfare laws structured against two parent families led to the destruction of black communities. In the early 60's a black family without a father was a rarity - by the end of the 80's, it was commonplace.
The "professional fulltime military" ended World Wars and learned a very painful lesson in Viet Nam. I know those people and you don't. You want to bitch about HOW the military is used - call Bill Clinton. He perverted the lessons learned from Viet Nam and the first Gulf War. HE decided using special forces as assasins was better than using them as counter insurgency resources used to teach indigenous populations how to fight back against terror tactics used by insurgencies.
My wife would happily bitch slap you for saying she "brought on the age where a woman has to work" and "radical feminisim and the destruciton of the family unit in favor of the state". I'll just point out that now one out of two marriages ends in divorce and women who can't compete equally with men are sentencing their children to a lifetime of poverty. Oh, and regardless of your gender, you are a misogynistic pig. We've been married for 30+ years. Our family ate dinner together every night - even if one of us was out of town on business. We still do. Family was more important to us than sports or lessons or any of the thousand other things children were doing. Talk and laughter are what our dinner table are known for - including some kids we "adopted" along the way.
Ingorance of history is just plain stupid. The Watergate hearings were a seminal moment for this country. Looking back 40 years and sneering just underlines your shortcomings. Yes, enemies lists was where Nixon lost the died-in-the-wool Republicans.
"All these problems are so bad and they are all somebody else's problem."
You really are a shameless little whining POS, aren't you?
barliman
Gee what generation did Clinton belong to again? Or which generation did Bush,Kerry,Frank, Bernanke, Blankfein,Corzine etc... belong to? Basically most of the "power brokers" in government and corporations even to this day who still "aren't done yet"? Hmmm see a pattern? Probably not.
As for your wife bitch slapping somebody how about you do the slapping big man instead of your wife, no feminism there right? Divorce is the epitomy of the destruction of the family unit. The divorce-a-thon in the 1980's must have been the Xers right? Oh wait they were teens then or maybe it was the Y Generation?
Watergate hearings seminal?! LOL. A joke compared to the size of the scandals now that are covered up by the government corporate media ran by boomers.
School costs and debt were how much when Boomers went to college?
Ignorance is bliss for who again?
Yes, I see a pattern.
I see following generations whining and not making change happen. A plurality of them voted for a Chicago Machine Politician of their generation with no experience for President because he promised them Hope And Change.
It just proves the old adage. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. The Daley Machine turned loose a police riot in the streets of Chicago in 1968. Forty years later, the Daley political machine (it never went away) achieved its greatest triumph by getting one of their people with ties to organized crime elected as President.
Strangely enough, this fellow turns out be both incompetent and corrupt. He's done everything he can for the political machines backers (GM, Chrysler, $ 787 billion for the public employee unions, TARP) while ignoring unemployment in favor of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid's wet dream - Obamacare.
Well, my wife has prerogative of first option on misogynists but I am always willing to maim people if she needs me to step in.
My older brother graduated in 1972 with $ 20,000 in student loans - he finished paying those off in his 50's. College, as a rule, has never been cheap. I was lucky enough to be a resident of a southern state that at that time made the tuition and fees ridiculously low for in state students. I paid for college, my books, my food and rent, insurance, etc, etc etc buy working more than 20 hours a week while taking classes. I was nowhere near being the highest GPA in my class but I was the highest paid starting salary because I had been working for an engineering firm both before and during college.
Having even more vigously displayed your ignorance than the previous fellow ...
IGNORANCE knows you are its bitch.
barliman
What does your rant have anything to do with what I pointed out? All of which is factual.
"College, as a rule, has never been cheap." No shit, but now the price nowhere reflects its value its another bubble that is well expanded beyond anything in the 1970's. That's one of your problems (among many) you're stuck in the past.
Oh and another thing lot's of boomers voted for Obozo out of whitey guilt, for example remember those water cannons and riots in the 1960's that you were lamenting about in a previous post? But yeah blame the inexperienced youth when the media completely covered and hyped him.
Hope you didn't work on anything important Mr.Engineer man because you're about the stupidest engineer I have ever seen now back to your regular scheduled programming peon.
we made the system change.
In some ways you changed people, and that was good. But you also glorified the system (as you 'made it') and turned it into an arrogant beast. And yeah, I was there too.
WHY ARE YOU NOT MAKING THINGS CHANGE ?
The young guys - at least the ones around here - are not idiots. The system is depraved and irreparable. Sanely, they are forsaking it. They don't pretend that they tamed and sanctified it, and they know it chews them up.
This is their "dropping out," and it will change things.
Uhmmmm, I was there. Nobody was glorifying the system as we made it and it turning into an arrogant beast is, IMO, primarily the fault of people ignoring myself and others when we told them we HAD TO HAVE campaign reform to prevent money being the ONLY thing that would get a politician's attention. I hurt my corporate career by refusing to contribute to the company's PAC.
"Dropping out" did not change a single thing in the 60's or the 70's and it will only make things worse today. Anyone who wants to believe otherwise is smoking the Hopium.
"Depraved and irreparable"? I watched black people getting beaten, hosed and attacked by police dogs on the evening news. That was "depraved and irreparable" - this is just simple old corruption ... and it isn't the first time it has been a problem in this country. In point of fact, it has ALWAYS been a problem in this country.
It's fixable - but not by giving up.
barliman
Spondoolix,
With sincere due respect, Sir, why should you recoup your investment? You are expecting par knowing those of us that follow you will at least take huge haircuts. I am 43, have also been 'paying into the scheme' since 16, and I know I will not see a dime of it in real terms. I consider it a tax and a considerable confiscatory one at that. We don't seriously expect what was stolen from us to be returned but we don't think it unreasonable to desire an end to the theft.
bsbd
Not to mention we will have to work until age 70. Five more years of working than the boomer generation. And we will get means tested right out of our Social Security. It's nothing more than another tax. And it's doublednfor anyone who owns there own business.
Then confront the thieves instead of going after the old folks to whom they toss pennies.
Pennies? Medicare: $25 trillion in unfunded liability. SS: $21 Trillion. All that money he paid into the system is GONE and there is one big ass pile of IOUs in its place. With your main point I agree, it is time to turn off the music and figure out how to unwind this; but, everyone will have to take the hit ... including him.
In the aggregate SS is a ton of money but individual seniors receive a relatively small amount. The average SS payment is less than one would make earning minimum wage and you know how much the safety netters scream about not being able to live on minimum wage.
you do know that talk like this is really going to fuck up the "divide and conquer thing" right?
I'm 52 and I doubt I'll see my ponzie pay out at my current retirement age of 67.
I'm helping the youngsters out by smokin', drinkin' and letting my body turn to shit.
'Natural Causes', bitchezz!
OldPhart, Eat lots of pasta and spicy sausage like me. My bowels have been plugged up for days. My wife says my farts smell like fucking death. It should be any day now. ill see you soon on the thirteenth floor.
I'm with you brother! Plus, I have my "suicide" pills, so when I get too sick or weak to take care of myself, I'll have one hell of a last buzz. I will be damned if I will let the "health care system" take all of my wealth in the last years of my life. I prefer to leave it to my loved ones. I've always said, "old age is no fun if you are not healthy and wealthy enough to enjoy it" BTW, I am 52 too. As one of the "younger" boomers, we always got stuck with the "leftovers" of whatever the older boomers didn't hog for themselves.
I watched them with horror and disgust from about age 5 onwards.
This may have meaning for you
Lol. I always have to watch that I don't leer too long at young hotties, at my age, they'll just think of me as an old lech.
I present myself as a dangerous-and-to-be-avoided old lech to the young hotties, with a smirk and a grin
works like a charm and it's worth the return in giggles
Good man Kali. And make sure you get some life insurance and when your "suicide" pills OD is ruled an accident your loved one's can get some xtra $.
It is done. BTW, Good Woman! : ) I always joke with my "heirs", that I am worth more dead than alive. Lucky shits.
OldPhart make sure you party and decay from now on exclusively on credit such that when you kick the proverbial bucket you'll be in the maximum amount of debt humanly possible for you. Deal?
Sorry, no deal. I have had a life long aversion to debt. Can't stand it! Still working on getting rid of the mortgage as quick as possible.
I know now how many got involved in equity loans and such. I just never did out of a perversion of credit. If you never used it, you din't have none.
I don't want to owe anyone anything. At that point I will happily have moral authority to point fingers and jeer.
I am actually with you OP! I too have zero debt and that's my general policy.
It's hard to believe you honestly think you "paid in" and "invested" in social security. They really got you! They stole your money using the threat of violence against you if you refused to participate... And guess what. They spent your fucking money! Its gone. Finito baby ! Congratulations. The only way they can keep the ponzi going is by keeping guns to the heads of the working class. But the music will stop one of these days. And when it does, I really hate to tell you, if you live long enough you are going to be pretty disappointed on how that "investment" worked out. I'm glad you own gold!
As a point of reality, youre going to get back alot more then you paid. the generations ahead of you made out like bandits.
http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/social-security-medicare-benefits-over-lifetime.pdf
It wasnt an "investment"- the government took your money and spent it on other things, now you think its OK to burn everyone behind you because you got duped. Im 45, and it pains me that not only will I never see a single dime of what I paid but it aggravates the hell out of me that you want to bleed everyone behind me because you think that ripping off kids is OK. Listen up Sparky- economic child abuse ain't a valid retirement plan.
Im sorry that you didnt read the grasshopper and ant fable and learn something, Im sorry that you think its OK for you to literally feed on the young like some kind of damn vampire so you can be comfortable, and even sorrier that all you have to say about it is some stupid fucking rhetoric about making your future. You didnt start your working life owing three years of your labor to the government, but my teenage son will. You didnt pay a tax rate remotely sufficient to give you what you want, and paid no attention when the money was pissed away by the government because you were having a good ol' time that wasnt possible for anyone before you and wont be for anyone after you- because you demand to be fed all the seed corn for future years to sustain yourself.
Although I've been one for the longest time, thinking that the end is coming to the U.S., I'm starting to wonder if that's the case. About 15 years ago when I was living in america, I remember some discussion on tv, and they were saying the dollar had to be devalued in the future in order that manufacturing would again be competitive. Also, something was said regarding american workers needing to lose their primadonna attitude, and work for longer hrs, and less money. Well it looks like that is coming. Also, wages in the cities here in China, rose 49% last year.
It doesn't seem to matter if the BRICS start their own world bank. Everything boils down to who controls the oil, and that it remains priced in dollars. Looks like america/nato is taking care of that.
I'm starting to wonder if it might not be a bad idea, to start, incrementally, increasing my exposure back home. For starters, I see tons of palatial homes in the hills outside Sacramento (where I'm from) in the $500-700,000 range. Hell, here in Chongqing, we've been thinking to buy a villa for around that price, but they are piles of concrete shit. Also, wages are lower in the US now, so I wonder if it might not be a bad time to start up sthg over there. Any advice?
edi
Advice? Yeah. Stay the fuck away from California!!
It's a legal morass ruled by lawyerly morons.
The cost of doing ANYTHING is just about double of doing it anywhere else. And that's if California's governing malware determines you're allowed to do it in the first place. (Otherwise be prepared for a whole lotta holes in your domicile.)
Drive by shootings? pshaw!! We have drive by lawyers...each eager to sue you for sneezing in public. We have police that hone their interrogation skills using batons in creative law enforcement flashmobs. Ownership of a fire arm is an immediate sign of imminent terrorism and merely transporting one to a gun range is an act liable to get you 'enlightened'.
California has a tax system that will seize every one of your bank accounts then send a letter six months later explaining why...and charge you for the paperwork to seize the accounts.
Worst of all, California is where the likes of Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Diane Fienstein and Maxine Waters originate. (Bullet bait every one)
If you have a whiff of common sense you'd got to Arizona, Idaho, or some other god forsaken place with really shitty weather.
Because weather is the only saving grace California has anymore.
Pelosi,Boxer,Feinstein,Waters wait which generation do they belong to again?
We had it easy, race riots, Vietnam, no where jobs, high interest and gas shortages. You want to know why schools are failing. Simple they have been politicized since the sixties.
Spondoolix - obviously we don't know your exact situation vis a vie what you paid in to the system versus what you'll recoup. But if you are only thinking of SS, you are missing the white elephant in the room: Medicare. If you think you've come even close to having paid into Medicare the benefits you'll run through in just a few short years, you are deluded. Sure, you may be very healthy and as an individual it may end up being true that you'll be screwed by the syste, if like your dad you die quickly and without a lot of heroic measures attempted - but assuming you fit the normal distribution of health care utilization, you'll be sucking off the government tit in no time at all even if you count all the SS dollars paid in, plus interest. And by the time you start getting to an advanced age, you'll be sucking off it like a fire hose.
I don't point this out to be mean or even to begrudge you the largesse, but if you want to calculate the true ROI of what you've paid in, I think you would be surprised. That is precisely why we are in the situation we are.
In DC they have a simple solution. Look at these Charts upside down.
And those are the optimistic government numbers...
This is nonsense. We need to be talking about skittles and iced tea.
No, that's played out. Tell us about the tragic loss of someone you loved so that we can make fun of that for a change.
@Tyler-last chart shows us currently around 70% Debt/GDP...How are we not officially over 100% right now, especially according to the GAO???
The chart shows the debt held by public. If you include intergovernmental debt then we are up over 100% of GDP. Not that consumption equals GDP. It's more like GCP. Gross consumption product.
Is that what a TB patient hacks up?
Off topic but this appear's to be credible. Not good...........
March 31, 2012, Sun City West, AZ: Lead Investigator Mike Zullo, of Sheriff Joe Arpaio's Cold Case Posse, presents interim results of the investigation into Barack Obama's alleged birth certificate and Selective Service documents http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETy88NZLh4g
Obama's a piece of shit like the rest of them, but spending hours on his papers doesn't help much. Joe Average doesn't want to see anything that would require courage of him.
Tommorow, I will go off to levenworth. I am not really joking here. But the one thing I ask is that we come up with an IQ rating for timmay. Bammer's birthcertificate is secondary. Ben nice knowing you folks on zerohedge.
Best of luck!
Its only timmay. I bet he never even planted a tomatoe plant. Then there is Ben's tax code.
Honestly, I laugh at the pigs that call themselves IRS agents and pray to timmay with an IQ at what 110? 115 maybe?
Good move, at least you'll be safe from the crazy shit that is coming soon on the outside.
Take care. Just remember the biggest criminals are in charge.
Not a problem. knew that from the start. I am pretty serious here in that even though I am not going to be able to post I dont want you folks to develop a zerohedge tax code unless you understand zero and hedge. we live a long time. too long to figure out timmay is a mogolian.
Good Luck.
Highly Recommended
Well, I would like to think you are taking a trip with the family to see rural Kansas, or maybe visit some family. But that is probably not why you are headed there. So let me just say I have enjoyed interacting with you here WF, seriously. You are a smart MF and that should be sufficient to keep you out of trouble there. Keep your wits about you and your head up. You have a lot of hours in at fight club preparing so you should be fine. Sorry to hear about your luck bro come and see us when you get out. Stax
Thank you for the truth stax, but tommorow I will give any semblance of ill gotten gains. I do want to some back here ... maybe tyler will have some children of men meme by then.
You are obviously self-surrender so your designation is to the minimum security facility. Don't sweat it. Get a job outside. Good horticulture program there. Excellent exercise facilities and extensive library. Workout, read a lot, learn a language, they have Rosetta Stone. Come back better, stronger and healthier. All the best.
Does not solve the problem. I would like the great minds of zero hedge to put a barbaric scalar on our freind, and my master. Timmay.
Do this -- and -- I will work tungsten as decribed.
Who knows maybe we will all be labeled as terrorists and join you. Nah we will be shuttled off to some FEMA camp. Maybe you're better off then us. Good luck.
The magnimasity is fine. but in the age of facebook I really do want to know what timmay rates on the barbaric relic called IQ scale. I am going to give my "retirement" portfolio up tommorow.
Timathy Geitherner. IQ = ???
Sorry to hear that.
Somehow I have confidence that in the
face of adversity, you will find a way to redeem
what might otherwise be considered "wasted" time.
Via con deos.
Timmay should have quite already. The longer he stays the lower his IQ.
Does it factor in for 3 Fukushima reactors in meltdown or china syndrome for the rest of the century?
I only see skynet starting a thermonuclear war and killing more than half of the population on a day as the only long term substainable solution....
i gave up my job so another could work in my stead (sob!)
So did millions of others....just not voluntarily.
geez, slewie, sorry you dont have to work anymore....sob...
i gave up my job as a greeter at squidMart and became a volunteer bong tester for zH
i also test-ride bicycles, BiCheZ!
and drink radioactive water; from fuk_u springs
I don't give a screaming fuck about future generations! I'm for me and my family. I got my bag full, fuck everybody else. In other words, I got mine, fuck you. Don't you just love it when the retired military fucks, cry about Obama the Marxists when you belonged to the most socialist organization in the country! Fuck you, asshole! I saved the country from communism in Nan, asshole, I cut off cocks and stuffed them into the mouths of VC. Only because they were doing it to our guys! Have a nice daY.
http://www.loriferber.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33...
it's all over...just accept it and move on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZtRedcmTIQ
My grandmother gets $1200 a month. I pay $700 a month into SS and my wife pays about $250. Cancel SS and give me my money back and Grandma can move in with me. She's already taken out far more tha my grandfather ever paid in.
As for the boomers, it will take 7 workers for each retired boomer to pay their benefits after they leave their jobs and the are not replaced. 100 million McJobs isn't going to pay for retired boomers, let alone the millions of $70k pensions young workers on are on the hook for. Either the pensions and SS go away or young America becomes slaves.
Our kids aren't going to have a school because every dollar will go to pay the pensions of 200 retired teachers. There won't be any money left to pay for real techers. Guess we'll have to settle for Michelle Obama on teleconference. Probably the plan all along.
michelle is a service industry unto herself
did you hear about the rumor i started that she's related to thomasJefferson?
so you answered your quandry yourself and you are correct. it will not be paid or it will be paid but not with dollars that have much present value. the reset will include ss reform which will probably have to focus ss resources on the neediest impoverished old people and not just plain old impoverished people. .gov pensions will be reset to 401ks.
kinda ironic that baby boomers made the usa the wealthiest most powerful nation on earth while we worked and will bankrupt it economically and geopolitically in retirement.
Take the generious pensions from those in the congress and senate. Replace it with the same social security everyone else receives. Next take away their special heath care plan and replace it with medicare,
Totally agree.
However, that is only a relatively large drop into a much bigger bucket.
Yogi - As much as they deserve every bit of scorn you can heap upon them, it does us no do to believe in unicorns. Member of Congress and Senators are not exempt from SS.* They pay in and get out the exact same as everyone else. The federal pension they get in addition to SS is the same as the pension every other federal employee gets. And actually, it is somewhat reduced because their COLA is set at the federal COLA minus .5%
For sure, they are well paid and the system is more generous than what the average person has. But let's not get distracted by untruths.
* Some of the longer serving Members do not pay into SS but instead pay into a similar but separate system (CERS). At this point, it really is only the old fucks who were elected prior to I think 1987. Again, this is also true for any federal employee, not just the elected folk.
America was murdered....over time by bot and paid for politicians, a warmongering Pentagon, terrorist banksters, power-hungry and delusional administrations and probably a lot more.
Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
Time now is to default, break the country in some 5 to 7 parts and start afresh....this time with a hard currency to keep the new leaders honest! Or you can keep all of those pompous and murdering asses on yr payroll for a couple more years!
i think we in the south have more vivid cultural memory about the last time secession was attempted, and honestly it's really, really hard to see any kind of a good outcome from taknig that road again.
ouch.. falling off that horse sure did hurt... best be walking from now on.
not sure about you, but walking for the last 150 years sure seems pretty shitty to me.
hurt? well i reckon that's an understatement. both sides of my family have ancestors who fought and died in major engagements and not a one of them for the union and i'd damn well say i probably know more about the war between the states than most on this forum. i just fail to see how splitting the country in half again (much less a half dozen pieces) would work. personally i think calling a constitutional convention for redress of greivances would be much more constructive, maybe something involving balanced budgets and term limits?
Continuing what we have wont work- its already a split country. It has the same language and currency but there is absolutely no "us" in the US anymore. Far better for the 3 or 4 distinct subsections and cultures to go their own way. Do you honestly think the northeast and left coast are going to vote for balanced budgets, ever? Not in a million years.
Things are alot different now then they were 150 years ago. Take a look at who actually does and doesnt join the military these days, where weapons manufacturing is, and where food production is.
they wouldn't vote for fiscal sanity yet, but i think at some point it might happen. i'm not saying i wouldn't support secession, ever, period, but i think we're a ways from that choice yet and i would rather avoid the situation entirely if it's still possible. given the ugly history of my area i doubt that particular sentiment would be too hard to whip up. the last carpetbagger we ran out of this parish escaped minus a couple arms and most of his family. but never fear, he has since been lauded as a hero by a few yankee authors. my people have been here for centuries, i'm fairly certain we'll be here for a few more one way or another.
I think it may be more like the old USSR going broke. After the 2008 election - I knew it was pretty much over and we were headed to a USSR bankruptcy scenario.
Old people and baby boomers will be wiped out. Pretty much anyone over 30 to 35 is screwed. Younger people will be able to find some sort of jobs.
Anyone hoping for a magical reboot and the bad guys lose is dreaming. The banking families controlling the Fed never lose. They buy armies.
The difference in the USA versus the old USSR is a lot more guns. There are also ethnic and racial divides that are worse than Russia. Our future is just like the USSR when it broke up. It will probably be a lot messier.
I mentioned 70 to 80 year olds buying guns. Anyone over 40 will be low person on the totem pole.
alfred b.,
I want to be the first to thank you, my ESL brother, for your contributions to this thread.
What is all this shit about it being the "boomers" fault?! Do you think that generation was all for Nixon eliminating the gold standard? Oh yes, and we dearly wanted draft cards and Vietnam. Instead of dividing it into stupid descriptions of generations used by marketers, why not define it for what it is. Each year there's another corrupt politician, greedy banker, or media hack brought into the system. The universal of all this is the color pink; the common color of an asshole. Let's get back to reality that there is a systemic problem that we are all getting shoved in an orifice.
Look..
Its the boomers fault, because yall didnt do anything to change it and instead pressed on the excellerator(same as the generations before it)
It will by my generations fault if we dont do anythign to change it.
so on and so forth
boomers not acceptign responsibility for the failure of their generation seems very typical of that generation.
you will never find me apologizing for mid 30's statist/marxist/obamanites
You had me at look.
We did make an attempt in the 80's. Congress said 'screw it'.
That's when I knew I'd never see a Social Security check. I didn't bitch because there were still a shit ton of old folks that had no option.
I seriously do not expect to ever retire as my parents did. I will have to work until I die of exhaustion, 'natural causes', or plain old fashioned starvation.
Further, I actually do envision my dessicated corpse lying along some desert road.
There's a place out here called Old Woman Springs. This was the natives solution to the aging population. When you got too old or too feeble they'd haul your ass to Old Woman Springs. And leave you there to the elements.
No, please retire.
Seeing this generational warfare here with fairly educated people fighting over benefits that are still being received.
Wait until it sinks and falls apart. It will make the Civil War look like a garden party. People will be killing each other for a piece of bread.
they are jealous because we had the last of the best of times. gen x.y.and z get to shepherd the usa down the tubes with the good times a distant memory. it is not boomers'fault that we were the last usa generation that partied and made money with abandon but losers have to blame someone else for losing and the boomers are the likely target.. gen x,y,z are pretty useless to themselves. they couldn't even carry out a good protest without the pink panthers showing them the way so it is fitting that the chinamart generations rationalize their unfortunate birthdate by faulting the last great usa generation for birthing them..
"last great usa generation."
I needed a good laugh thanks.
top it. you can't even though you still have plenty of time.
Haha... hardly jealous. I'm mostly angry at your generation's unbelievable arrogance despite your leadership being a piss poor D-. Your words pretty much sum it up. I am VERY glad to be in a different generation and not part of the blinding egotism.
so you are angry at clinical human behavior and history? winners win because they compare themselves to the best. losers lose because they blame their state of affairs on someone else. you think you are immune to human nature? what has gen x,y,z accomplished? not a single damn thing for the usa. like i said, the fn pink panthers had to show your weak asses how to protest. up until then all of you were perfectly happy to take it up the hershey highway without ky. you must like it.
OK, all snarky comments aside.
Your POV is understandable. But, any arguement should be taken in context. Any Baby Boomer that didn't get their head shot off in Vietnam had it pretty good after the inflation of the 1970's. Virtually everything a Baby Boomer touched since 1980 went up in value. Bonds, check. Real Estate, by a factor of 4 or 5. Equites, you bet your ass. Heck, you didn't even have to invest in traditional vehicles, how about cars or art work or guns?
All the while this was happening, your generation was selling the "USA and capitalism is #1" schpiel. But, a little secret was always lurking in the back ground. The good times where financed not by increased productivity, but by debt. Every year, the vacation, the new car, the little lady's tit job was not bought by savings or hard work, but rather by a credit card.
Now, today, the realization that the bill is coming due, has finally come. There is no more credit left to extend. The following generations will not have the ability (even if they wanted to) to see you to your golden slumber. This is not an opinion but a fact. The US Government running trillion dollar deficits, the US Fed pinning interest rates at zero (with little choice to ever raise them past 3%) and the massive entitlement promises can never be sustained.
Why many people, like myself, are so pissed off, is because of this, I DON'T WANT TO BE DRAGGED DOWN BY YOUR POOR JUDGEMENT!
USA #1
Yep, that nails it. Look at GDP since 1970, then factor out deficit spending and inflation. Real growth has been non existent, the entire thing has been an illusion put on the national credit card. They dont want to look at the numbers or admit it, but as gravity kicks in and reality takes hold its going to be a real bucket of cold water on those folks.
Also warden. you think you are fron the 'south cause you have ab IQ<75,000.
Suck on some sweet timmmay. city boy --or-- rate him reltive to yourself. The penentulum accompishment for zero hedge would be to state the atomic weight of AU, AG and Timmays IQ. Econ 4320.
sounds good, first level the playing field by putting the debt at the same level when you started. you have to pay it off now. then we see who squeals
Good night? I would have said "Good grief"!
Good night and good luck
Doesn't look like were moving to Ft. Lauderdale Marge.
After 18 years in State Government as a project manager and business architect I left the service of the people to complete the implementation of my new company which I started last April.
I laid off 5 people in February, they were good people who have all found other employment since, one of them is starting a new business which I would like to invest in as soon as I recoup my initial investment in my company and the loan is paid back without interest which per our financial model should work out by end of June.
I’m a baby boomer, just cashed out one of my retirement accounts to have some time to think for myself instead of others and invest in things better suited to my values and character.
I don’t have charts now, but do have a very good handle on the low level data and a fair predictive model for my business
Each day I wake expressing gratitude by way of a blessing on our people and place.
The wall we are hitting is about governance and revolution.
A perspective of how you view yourself as an individual and part of the collective.
Are you the TPTB?
Why or why not?
Unless you look at yourself in the mirror and see a free person, you are a slave.
Our future is not interrupted unless you say you give up,
The growth in health care spending cant work.
We are spending way to much processing this problem.
Meanwhile back an the ranch house, there are more important things than this..
Anybody who believes we are on a trajectory to an ultimate end point is a mistaken luddite in my opinion,
Unless you wish to follow the leadership of TPTB. And do not considers yourself to have this power.
We are TPTB. There are other powers in this time and place.
What’s your interest rate?
Who are you and do you want to hang out with someone like me?
As the systems crash, as they crash, who are you going to hang with?
We have a choice, to be TPTB or a slave.
If you can stretch to the second position you may find yourself.
And loose yourself in the now.
Fuck the future; it is a lost cause base on the chart.
You are all “the powers that be” as you see fit.
Until you take the power to be an architect of this reality, you will be a sucker to the pansy (ponzi) scheme of the existing paradigm.
So much money is being spent on crap now.
Why do we have three air craft carriers in the straits of Hormuz now?
North Korea!!
We are to0 afraid to let go, of how we think about things.
Just look at the demographics of the CIA world fact books.
As long as we got these folks so worried about the BS of the current paradigm we are wasting our energy,
Peak Oil is not a delusion.
We are spending hundreds of millions of millions on sports stadiums, healthcare instead of hydro power or other investments with a far superior ROI TCO.
Bull shit has poor resonance.
Though I’m an old baby boomer, fuck you bitchtes!
I’m not going to take it.
I am ThePowerThatBe.
When you want to take about you in this matter drop me a line.
Otherwiise drink the Koolaide.
Oh Geez. An 18 year govt employee. Did you also belong to one of those greedy sh*t govt unions? Hope & Change. I bet you voted for the slogan.
In the fed rpograms they rate people. I think timmy is 104. It would be interseting when he puts me in jail tommorow.
This is not a joke. I would like to know what IQ timmay has. Non violent person here.
how's the pension?
After 18 years in State Government...
Have you ever heard of paragraphs? Gosh, and you wonder why people are so pissed off at the government.
PS Business Architect? How would you rate the job you have done over the last 18 years? You are aware that their are no jobs, taxes don't cover expidentures, services are being cut without a cut in taxes and your pension fund invested in some Spanish Debt.
Is Trevon smater than Timmay?
Honestly folks, before we shut this website down, we should do an old school IQ test on timmy. Plenty of psychology majors, teachers, etc. here.
It would help tommorow with the backwoods southern lawyers.
Backwoods southern lawyers eh?
I hope you are someones girlfriend next week ya Yankee asshole. May the government your people fought for continue to grind more of you into the dust and leave you broken.
Id give Geithner a buck twenty something- now go rot.
Thats how we do it from the real south. 20-1 you are from charolettle and wear a wig, and pay 12% like Romney boy.
Does not change the fact that the internet is forever and they will attach an IQ to Timmay. I am betting 104. You Sir, Might do better.
EDIT: and I was the one who junked your low IQ ass.
I misinterpreted your comment- my error and my apologies. Actually, my people come from the Sampson county through Goldsboro area, not Charlotte.
As far as IQ goes, whatever my deficiencies are that isnt one of them.
I really am going down tommorow. but what frustrates me the most is that A) I do not know the atomic weight of gold. B) I do no know why the head of the IRS is clinical retrard with an IQ that we can not comprehend. We get it dude, enjoy 2013. but you are going to change the timeline of a nonviolent person tommorow.
My brothers on ZH, can we put an IQ on Timmay? it is barbaric, but also catharsis. facebook/wiki dont use metrics.
Decent fight with Boomers tonight... Basically, you can sum up every one one of their arguments down to this:
We are the greatest generation, have done everything under the sun, and we deserve it all in a neat package when we retire. Ain't nobody going to tell us otherwise. Doesn't matter what the truth is. Doesn't matter if our grandkids become eternal debt slaves. We deserve every dollar we put in.
Sorry, those dollars were siphoned out long ago in Ponzi payouts. The exponential function is a bitch. Deserve's got nothin' to do with it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpDkYZWeeVg
We still love you Boomers. We will try to take care of you as best we can, but it ain't going to be by the standards you dreamed about...
Fine movie, (Clint Eastwood) not a boomer.
Allow me to add on to the pile.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ3LXHKB34
Wait for you take care of us?
Not my style. I don't expect Social Security to make any significant contribution to my retirement and haven't for the last 30 years.
You haven't had a decent fight with the Boomers tonight - posting straw man arguments and "you suck" statements back at people would not cut it in a junior high debate club ... much less here.
Be happy with your green checks or sad about your down arrows but understand one thing.
Some of us don't give a shit about either of them. We were working to make people think before you were born. We will keep doing it after you give up or get too busy with other things.
We are old school and taught by some of the best. We knew the lazy shits like you 40 years ago who only had ego and bullshit. You've practiced what you've derided up above - patting yourself on the back.
A take away lesson - we are teaching the next generation. We have been doing it since they were children. They know what we learned.
You never win by giving up.
barliman
You and the other 4 guys. The rest of you are still waiting for real estate to "rebound."
I'm sure the OWS crowd is willing to buy your house, after their done squating. (In 2028)
We still love you Boomers. We will try to take care of you as best we can, but it ain't going to be by the standards you dreamed about...
************
Kiss my ass--piss pants mommys boy-
I don't need your fucken help-
The boomers went through life paying for their parents old age-
But of course the "me" generation of fat assed/texting/soft/pudgy fuckheaded fools like you want to bow out of what made America a place to grow old and feel safe-
We paid--show me that we didn't--or--STFU
We paid--show me that we didn't--or--STFU
If you paid, why are so many of those benefits you want un/underfunded and why is DEBT being used to pay for them? Oh, that's right, because you didn't fucking pay, you just passed the buck... hmmm, I wonder where the "me" generation gets it from.
Or was it that you, like so many, were too fat assed and foolish to stand up and say "Hey government, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING WITH MY MONEY!?!?!"... Oh no, that's not it, it's the "me" generations fault.
/puke
If you paid, why are so many of those benefits you want un/underfunded and why is DEBT being used to pay for them? Oh, that's right, because you didn't fucking pay, you just passed the buck...
************
Typical fucken idiot--
The so called befits are unfunded because your corrupt government wanted to reduce the "deficit and so threw it all in with general revenues-
Of course it was unsustainable-anyone with a glass eye and a tin ass knew that-
But listen asshole--
I said--"prove" that we did not pay and further more--unlike you Mr basement dweller--we didn;t bitch and were happy to pay for the veterans and the forefathers that made this country--unlike Zimbabwe
Yet another mathematically challenged boomer.
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/TCMDO
Another dumbfuck soft ass who shows any chart heading north as "proof" of "something"--
Here's the boomer debt compared to your 60 trillion-
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/CONSUMER
You don't even know how to interpret the charts you post-
Student-loan debt may become the next U.S. asset bubble as rising tuition costs climb while household income stagnates, Standard & Poor's said.
Colleges and universities have been struggling with declining endowments and lower state funding at the same time students are facing an inability to repay loans in a tough economy, the ratings company said today in a statement.
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/feb/09/business/la-fi-student-debt-bubb...
Ahh, Ok.
Well you see, the chart I posted shows that in 1970 that Total Credit Market Debt Owed (TCMDO) in the $3,000 to $4,000 billion range. This would equate to when the first boomers were about 24. Moving on, the chart ends in the current time frame, showing TCMDO in the $55,000 billion range. The first boomers would now be the age of 65. Sooooo, during the adult age of the first boomers, we can say that TCMDO would have increased by approx. $51,000 billion, give or take.
Next, we can interpret this chart many ways. First, we could say that during the time frame of 1970-2011, the US Economy increased its productivity 10+ fold, allowing its citzens to take on and service a 10+ fold increase in debt. Or, we could say that, all things being equal, the US population increased 10 fold. But, of course that would be silly. You don't get to work 10 times faster today, then you did in 1970. Or you don't have the option to eat 10 times the amount of hamburgers today as you did in 1970.
Hmmm, could there be another answer? Could it be that the quantity of money has increased at a much faster rate then productivity? And how (In our debt=money world) could the quantity of money increase if productivity does not match the rate of debt? It couldn't possibly be the issuance of yet more debt to pay off previous debts, could it?
Now, I may not be the chart expert of the world, but I have seen a chart or two in my young life that bares a stricking resemblance to the TCMDO chart. I even heard an old timer once call a chart with similar characteristics a "bubble". But, I could be wrong.
I of course could go on to tell you that while YOU SIR may have been living a life of Job, many of your fellow citizens, were not. When folks came to your shop, firm and/or restaurant, you thought that they were paying with cash. After all, at the end of the year, that is how it showed up on the balance sheet. And of course your customers had customers and they had customers and after awhile, well, its was hard to tell who had what money or what money actually was. (In the debt=money world)
Debt=Money, its kind of a bitch ain't?
Now fuck off and go to bed old timer, your wrong and if you croak in the pond, the rest off us are going to die of thirst!
Now fuck off and go to bed old timer, your wrong and if you croak in the pond, the rest off us are going to die of thirst!
***********
Like i said--you know fuck all about what you spew out--
Interpret this-which just so happens to be the makeup of your chart-
http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/categories/32257
I know you can't--you're running on wind and bluff-fuckwit and i ain't buying it-
I wonder how many college girls will be spreading their legs upon graduation with their General Studies Degree. Just askin? Yeah the Spring Break was great on bororowed money and Daddy and Mommy's funding. All one has to show for is posting on Facebook and the endless pictures of O look what I did. Now for the reality, fucture American College Girls-- Prostitution.
I'm not sure I understand the pissing match you two are involved in with this post... got distracted with the the chart you posted on Individual Consumer loans at Commercial Banks which is eye opening...
WHAT IS THE STORY WITH THE vertical jump in 2010????
From around $800 billion to almost $1,200 billion in one year..... what is up with that?
Found this online but not sure how "valid" it is.
"OA flagged the problem but not the answer. $365 billion of consumer loans were re-classified from off-balance sheet to on-balance sheet due to changes in accounting regs." from a blog first part of 2010
http://capital3x.com/think-tank/nothing-to-shake-the-bulls/
Nothing to shake the bulls
what thse charts do not anticipate is 79% of boomers will be turned into pink slime; the new kind of pink slime, like playdoh and silly putty. who said boomers never gave back LMFAO
As long as IPADS and IPHONES are avaialable , nothing mattters. Forogt, waffle irons on Black Friday.
America needs communism and socialism more than it has ever done. Not the rantings of you far right lunatics who think John Wayne films are documentaries.
Your nation is built on the biggest genocide in history, it is built on theft and envy and violence. And slavery.
Not by the sweat of individuals, or fictional concepts like 'liberty' and 'freedom'. But by brutal force. And you libertarians are the last dying group of people who have swallowed all those myths. Who long for the better age which never existed.
The US needs collective action, communual living, health systems paid for by everyone, transport systems paid for by everyone. It needs them now.
Instead all you want is to own guns so you can shoot the children of your former slaves.
You are fucking sick. Who do you thnk is going to emerge from all this in better shape? Germany? The Scandinavians, indeed all of Europe? China? Asia? Or the US? Just take a look at Mexico to see your future...
Idiots.
Wait a minute, what do u mean see Mexico a analogy, Americans will never understand. Watching the slow train wreck.
jokes aside, me.
double post
you are still idiots
Chinese Woman Giving Baby Away Online Outrages Everyone
http://www.minyanville.com/dailyfeed/2012/04/02/chinese-woman-giving-bab...
Amerikans are getting too stupid to adopt their kind. Might want to consider this.
i expect to hear any day now, since 2008
LOl
Who's worried about paying for an aging population. We have a printing press and a Congess full of people who think money and debt is just another digit.
Did you actually hear Obama during the Three Amigos meeting this weekend? He is still of the opinion that the U.S. gets all its crude oil from the Arabs. The two major suppliers are now Canada and Mexico and he wants the Keystone Pipeline to be diverted to the Canadian West Coast so the tar sands crude can be sold to - GUESS WHERE - CHINA! What are you people thinking?
Boomers as a demographic are not to blame - the NY "boys" bought the MSM and then embarked on a disinformation campaign in order to maintain power. The boomers are now just as screwed as their children. The culprits are residing in mansions in upstate NY where they all sit back and contribute to the Arts and have telephone chats with their minions in Washington. Atlas Shrugged 2012.