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And There's Your Perfectly Leaked Explanation: CME Hikes Gold Margins, Again, This Time By 27%
Two weeks after the CME hiked gold margins by 22%, and two days after the Shanghai Gold Exchange sent them higher by 26%, here comes the CME, as we expected, with another 26% gold margin hike (previously: "Should we expect 3 more SGE margin hikes in the next 2 weeks? Or will the CME rightfully accept the baton and do everything in its power to dent the parabolic rise in the alternative reserve currency? We are cautiously looking at what the CME will do today and will advise readers."). And now we know that this particular margin hike was leaked well in advance, and explains the entire $100 plunge in gold today. And as a reminder, the August 1 CME margin hike worked... for about 30 minutes.
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If you are someone that is long 1 GC contract (lets say you use IB, you post 8613 as collateral) and the contract is worth at $1800 $180.000 so you are posting 4.8% of the value of the contract.
Just look at todays movement! its already the whole margin pretty much, do you think that is an apropriate margin? I believe it is not, it should be at least double to give a decent margin of safety.
But Lets say I bought 1 contract, if I am buying something that has a "risk" of $180.000, do I care if I have to post 8613, 10000 or 12000? No, its still a very small part of my overall exposure, so only extremely levered people get affected, which is a small portion, and those tend to be eliminated natually by "market selection" anyhow.. so it just doesnt make much difference in reality, other than the psychological perception that is just as a result of imagination and misconceptions.
The 'unlimited money' CAN (and DOES) move the markets. If you can write enough naked shorts to drive the price down (and start triggering the stops that most traders will have in place) you can then go in and buy back at a much lower price to cover - making a ton without ever having the metal you sold.
You can play this game as long as there are paper players. BUT YOU CAN PLAY THIS GAME FOR ONLY A LIMITED TIME. If there's not enoughmetal to cover the ontracts out there - and if you have serious physical buyers who are willing to jump in on the dips and stand for delivery, you could get caught in a real squeeze.
Maybe it was a mere coincidence that you had an unopposed run up when the debt ceiling battle was underway and the government stopped spending to intervene in markets...... maybe the bullion banks are not willing to risk their own money in this game.
The recent history of silver in May would seem to contradict your argument.
My view is that silver was parabolic and it crashed as it was to be expected. It always ends the same way after a parabolic movement, margin hikes by the exchange are just to be expected at some point because they are logic after such a movement, the problem is that the CME, using fixed margins, is also slow to react to price and volatility changes, so then the margin hikes coincide with more less the peak in the parabolic movement, but just look at the move, it ends badly all the time after you go parabolic, unless its a takeover of a company or something that justifies it.
Gold just went parabolic now (actually vertical more than parabolic) , and margin hikes coincided with what now seems a good, very easy to be expected, correction of prices. It makes sense that they coincide, but logicly, it does not make any sense that it brings price down, it should logicly actually do the opposite if you think about it, because its the shorts that are short of cash and more likely to get squeezed.
margin hikes bring down the price because it is the longs that are short of cash. Shorts are either hedged or backed by metal. As in silver, the longs are being exposed as speculative gamblers.
Why would they be short of cash? They had cash pouring into their accounts almost every day non stop for a month!
the smart ones with large embedded gains were likely selling while the new, hot money rushed in on high leverage thinking (based on reading the gold pumping sites like ZH, SGS, Turd, etc) this was going to be the great rally to the moon that their leaders told them about! Must buy now! Gold to the moon!! $2,000 next week, $5,000 next month, $55,000 bitches!!! We can't be wrong!!!
Lever up and BUY GOLD!
Whoops
Hehe, yes, those suckers always come at the best moment.. but that is the nature of the financial markets, always the same game, i dont think it explains the complain of many, that margin hikes simply kill longs and therefore bring the price down.
I'm guessing they'd be short of cash if they were the type to use the "cash pouring in" to buy more contracts. Any cash that comes in is put toward "just one more" contract, and the leverage increases. Sure, there's the chance it'll pull back, but not yet... This time it's different!
even if you are short, and are hedged because you are backed by metal, you will have cash flowing out of your account via short futures that are going up, but no money coming in, just an appreciating asset, so you will be short of cash very quickly if you are short in April/May 2011.
For silver, the margins were just ridiculous considering the value and volatility that the contract reached, it was putting in danger the brokers, and the CME.
"My view is that silver was parabolic and it crashed as it was to be expected. It always ends the same way after a parabolic movement, margin hikes by the exchange are just to be expected at some point because they are logic after such a movement"
The CME hiked silver margins five times in eight days in an unprecedented move. Most of this happened as price was falling! Neither you nor anybody else saw that coming. If you did, do please point me towards the post. There is no explanation except that they tried, successfully, to crash the price.
Exactly correct my vagabond friend. To wit, the silver takedown occurred simultaneous to the second death of the CIA asset one Osama Bin Laden. Proof that the whole thing was staged. Proof also that the deminati are running out of bullets and are desperate. They must fire more than one bullet to sleigh their target.
I am Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez and I am armed (with my makeshit drop gun assembled at that poor gun owners shop) and extremely dangerous to the deminati!
rsi1, let me try to explain it to you. This is a techique as old as the sun. It's been used by retailers since there were retailers, and why it is illegal for a retailer to sell below cost. When a large retailer invades a city, they seek to sell at prices that are unsustainable in order to bankrupt the competition. There are laws that try to prevent this, so generally they work in pairs to preclude monopoly...Home Depot / Lowes, Coke / Pepsi etc. But the simple fact is, those who have the most money, can starve the competition. And that is why margin hikes favor the banks short position THEY HAVE GREATER MONEY, AND GREATER ACCESS TO MONEY.
If you only have one product - and there's a limited supply of it (or the supply cannot grow faster than the demand) - you can't keep selling it below its market value in the face of growing demand or you WILL eventually go bankrupt (unless of course the government is forever bailing you out).
And it seems like the Central Banks are no longer willing to 'sell'/lease their gold anymore to increase supply quickly - to support a lower price.
Nobody want's to be 2011's Brown - and I suspect there would be a beheading if any nation went and sold off their gold now. (there still may be if it comes out that certain Central Banks have lent out their gold and can't get it back).
The people who are short communicate with those who control the margin hikes, so of course you don't see shorts getting squeezed, because they would never hike the margins if their friends who are caught short don't have the cash to outlast the longs. That's how it worked with the Hunt brothers. Many of the people who voted to hike the margins were themselves heavily short. It's that simple.
stupidity of the crowd is the cornerstone of this blog. You'll get nowhere spouting such common sense here.
Thanks for stopping by to enlighten us. Now go away. If you think "the stupidity of the crowd is the cornerstone of this blog" why not spread your pearls of wisdom elsewhere, fucktard!
Unless of course you're an arrogant, condescending Wall St pimp such as yourself.
Your ignorance on the level of corruption going on in the financial markets and in gov't (regulators) is astounding.
Are you really this fucking dumb or just a paid troll?
How the hell did Bernie Madoff (rsi1) get a computer into his jail cell ?
An awful lot of unfounded faith in a totally corrupt system to be posting his hollow thoughts on ZH.
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/202761/20110823/bernie-madoff-chasing-madoff.htm
Maybe he should get special leave to attend opening night.
Just spam your website www.iamadumbasstrollpaidbywallst.com and don't let your ass block your way out.
Yeah, those stupid idiots making huge amounts of money by accurately predicting the future!
Futures 102 Lecture
margin is settled daily so the recent losses of gold shorts in the long run up (before the move of the last two days) are already covered in margin calls -- the parabolic move up may have been some of those shorts getting squeezed out unable to meet those calls. A margin raise on the day of a big down move will asymmetrically hurt longs, because they have to cover their loss plus the extra margin, whereas shorts can apply some profit to their margin requirements.
Also, as you'll see in the commitment of traders report -
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/cotcharts/GD
most of the short interest is commercial, for example gold miners who are short their forward delivery, and these may have deeper pockets than long speculators, and hence more able to meet a maintenance call. Finally, as you'll see in the COMEX announcement, "Hedge/Member" have a smaller absolute maintentance level than speculators. Although the percentage increase is the same (27%) the dollar amount the speculators must come up with is larger (and these are asymetrically set long according to the committment of traders report).
So several factors work together to make this margin maintenance call harder for the aggregate long position to meet. That doesn't mean gold will trade down, I have no opinion there, just that the claim that the effects of margin calls is the same for longs and shorts is not strictly accurate.
yes, in a day like to day, of course the longs have more impact on a daily basis, but most buyers and sellers buy gold/silver or any future considering the notional, because they will lever their account, but not 15-20 times like it is currently possible, maybe they will use between 1 times and 5 times depending on the aggressiveness of their strategy (for those that have one) therefore, if you are levered 1 to 5, a margin hike reduces the cash available, but does not oblige you to close positions (selling longs in that contract to meet the margin increase)
also, and here this is only my oppinion, the majority of buyers/sellers of gold/siver contracts do not use more than 1-2 times leverage, so even less of an impact that would push them to close positions, unless it was a market movement that made them do so, but not the margin increase
Thus the need for a huge smackdown before raising the margins, thus `rescuing' the trapped shorts before they get arse fecked again with the margin increase.
Okay. Then why don't we ever see any margin hikes in the toilet paper markets no matter how high they go? 30-year treasury bond toilet paper for instance.
I don't think western Gold traders will ever want to(have ever) reference a physical price to a low paper price during the Gold buying season in the East. I don't think Gold will drop further.
Let's see. I am a buyer at this level .
Probably. Raising margins is what screwed the Hunts in the 80s and the common man today.
Long term, things are bullish for PMs. There isn't a Volker out there willing to hike rates and with Twist 2 / QE 2.5 [Attack of the 10 year], the Fed will continue to monitize debt.
interest rate hikes didn't help the hunts either
edit: guess you covered that...apologies
I love how the MSM always attributes the crash in PM's to "profit taking". Most of the accumulators I know are not day trading tards and have no interest in converting their PM's back into paper trash!
"As far as margin rates are concerned, they will rise to cash on both gold and silver before either sees full valuation." Jim Sinclair 08-24-11
And after they have no room left to raise requirements, what are they going to do then? Throw rocks at it?
I don't know about the rest of you but I am tired of the comex stealing from me. We need to put Ron Paul in Office and eliminate the comex and the federal reserve and the world bank and the fomc and on and on and on.
Actually, it explains yesterday, too.
Insider information > Outsider information
Look, in your website you said that if you read the comments carefully you would have noticed the SH exchange raised margins, but how in the hell should one know how much impact that has? In my view the impact of the CME hike is much more significant, yet only insiders knew about it.
The Shanghai hike and inside tips led to yesterday's slide. Today was clearly everyone heading for the exits at the same time in anticipation of this CME hike.
Glad to see you're a regular visitor.
The leak saved the commercial shorts Billions...
yahtzee!
hikes bitchez...
Frontrunning, Bitchez!
I say fuck em'.
Good buying opportunity should present itself over the next week or two.
I find myself saying that to alot of government folks these days, and bankers.....
Get physical 100%, and screw the paper pushers!
This will only make gold stronger in the future.
So true....
so feking criminal.
I'm sure raising margins timed with comex options expiration was purely coincidental.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rUPU7dZVjDE/TlK7SnWqAYI/AAAAAAAARpw/I15xlOpbMM...
Sell the rumor, buy the news??
i'd wait for the rebound...then see how much further it falls...may silver playbook
or you could click that red arrow there what do i care
But will they follow through with MOAR?
I hope they give it a really savage beating. It makes it cheaper for the smart money to buy. Hopefully it will stay down like silver has so I can pick some up when my Fall buying ramps up. If not, then it gives all of you guys out there time to catch up on your PM purchases.
pretty soon it will be $ for $
Go Hugo Chavez!
"Margins? We ain't got no margins! We don't need no margins! I don't have to use your stinkin margins!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsdZKCh6RsU
Hope Hugo didn't call the top
alot of speculative unbacked paper longs forced to sell yet again. When will they learn?
Hiking margins on the eve of gold and silver op-ex, and 36 hours before Bernanke's Jackson Hole speech. Is this is great country or what?
GG
They probably already have Qadaffy's head mounted on a wall of some hunting lodge in Jackson Hole.
"Come on baby,lets do the twist"
TD, How do they calculate the new margin levels? Why 22%? Why $7,000?
I'm afraid I already know the answer. Just checking to see if I'm missing anything.
They call 3 random people and ask which number between 1 and 100 they like, and take average.
They consult the chart: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80617042/
Panic at the CME.
At this rate, Gold and Silver will be the only non-speculative markets available and will show true price discovery. Thanks for the buy opportunity.
Welll..panic only the margin hikes don't depress the price.
Last margin hike knocked gold down for a few days, then back up to new record highs. Any bets as to how long this one will last, before we see 1900 again?
I think we see 1900 again within 7 days.
Honestly, probably Tuesday. It's already failing to confirm below $1750. If we close above $1700 tomorrow, it's off to the races.
I agree. It's too low of a number for a significant retrace (that probably sounds controversial but I think a quick move to above 2k is in the works and have for some time now). I'd look for a 16% or better retrace at around $2200 to $2400. This is just a quick shakeout in my opinion. Something to get the easy money out of position on. Let's wait and see what happens come Monday. I bought today after selling a bit on the way up and sold a bunch at 1850ish/43 (silver). I suspect we have either seen the lows for this correction or are very close. Either way, I sure am nervous anytime I'm holding FRN's in my account!
I think you are right. I think that the retracement will be quicker than we experienced in May. After this summer's action, May seems a long time ago.
No. Think again. The shorts just made $10,000 per contract; overnight. That, my friend, is shock and awe, and the human psychology does not recover that fast.
its like quantative easing
but for gold
get $ out of gold and into trash right in front of bernake and jack a55 hole
lybia bofa rumors obama jobs speech all levers are on to push this market higher its a kommunist market
i am dead-serious: who needs to be prosecuted?
//sarc¿/
It's a market for grown ups; if it's too hot in the kitchen, find something else to do.
I hope it keeps going down....as this monkey wants more.
A chimp off the old block I assume:)
Dear Sir/Madame:
Put mo' money in yo' account, bitchez!
Yours truly,
InteractiveBrokers
lol
All those tactics are smoke and mirror. Owning physical gold is the only way to Liberty and Freedom. I wouldn't want to use fiat as ass wipes.
From a business perspective this is perfectly normal. Why is this continually an issue and conspiracy for you guys? Counterparty stupids have no backing thus they need to shut the fish down.
I'd rather that than some dipshit with 19 mortgages and 1000% in gold futures cause everyone says he'll make billions bringing the house down.
Besides, I love buying PM producer stock at 40 cents on the dollar
And there you have it, no real time and thought spent on fixing the real economy, but instead fixing the markets.
But I guess people are too focused on scalping short-term and watching Jersey Shore to give a fuck that our system is fucking utterly useless and markets are moved by rumours, central planning molestation, and bailouts.
Time to buy into the equities just like the overlord Chairsatan wants all his minions to.
Fuck equities. The market caps of these companies are laughably dwarfed by all the fiat and derivatives out there across the globe. Index funds, hedge funds, funds of funds, 3x funds, scores of HFT scumbags, and quadrillions in derivatives. There is no price discovery in this market, no analysis. No reward for running a solvent business.
Instead it is massive amounts of fiat dollars, together with computers, moving the entire market so these fraudulent fucks can skim pennies and dollars off volatility, along with massive amounts of insider trading. Homegamers and pension funds get raped, traders margined to the hilt pocket dough. True "investors" get eaten alive in these rigged markets.
F the "market." It now truly is nothing more than a rigged casino. House wins, public loses. F it all to hell.
Now someone's talking sense.
These paper markets have to be avoided, shunned, disparaged and exposed for what they are. They are a skimming pond. This pond has riptides that will drown an olympic swimmer and whirlpools that will sink a solvent business.
You cannot honestly compete with a corrupted and dishonest monetary and regulatory system. Warn your children of these toxic waters.
Jebus Christos; it's always been a casino; you just now woke up and realized what movie you were watching. Of course, the public loses; what did you expect? I don't lose. Do your homework, be a contrarian; don't be "the public".
they're so blatent now it's sickening, leak to your mates, frontrun, crash.
I am sure the investigation will start immediately..... or NOT!
this is NOT the reason gold sold off $150. c'mon. It hardly budged when the first CME hike occurred. People are in general far less leveraged to gold than the silver players. When prices go up alot (and/or when prices become alot more volatile) the exchanges raise margin - anyone who thinks this is a 'surprise' or a 'concerted effort' needs to get out more.
am i the only one happy about this move?
i've got a shit eating grin as i place my order...
That's right - average down.
You're brilliant
I think you gold buggers are missing the sarcasm.
Good to see u again M.R.
i sure as shit didn't miss it.
there are 6.6 billion people on the planet.
for this, there are 2.2 billion ounces of gold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YDaiil13fE&feature=player_detailpage#t=1...
anyone care to refute these numbers?
If all fiat were converted to FRNs, I wonder how many "dollars" that would be?
Actually, it's more like 7 billion and 4 billion known ounces of gold as of 2010. My guess is a good portion of those 7 billion don't have $1750 in discretionary capital, even those who might have a fondness for gold. Thus, your comment is a curiosity, nothing more. Never mind India, China or Pakistan....I am reminded that a recent poll found that 60% of Americans could not come up with $1000 in the event of an emergency.
There are only about 10 high quality rubies of ten carats or more in existence in a world of 7 billion, and a good many of those people have a fondness for other rare and shiny things. I'll admit my statement is merely a curiosity, not an implication of value. Some foolish people would rather have a virtuous woman. (Proverbs 31:10) Go figure.
WIll post when I next buy Au....... just to let you all know when the plunge will begin! Ha!
Hhmmmm... how come, on margin increases, do the prices of precious metals ALWAYS GO DOWN?
Especially considered the large, leveraged, short positions in the precious metals?
Well?
Re: "how come, on margin increases, do the prices of precious metals ALWAYS GO DOWN?"
That's easy. The big shorts have access to unlimited free money. Margin increases mean nothing to them. Longs who actually have to work hard for their money are the ones who suffer the impact of increased margins.
Disclosure: Long and strong physical only...
FUNKYMONKEYBOY,@16:49
Especially considered the large, leveraged, short positions in the precious metals?
EVER considered WHO it is that HAS thise HUGE SHORTS?.
JPM.
Next!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone give me some price predictions. When will AU start its climb again? I sold some physical this morning (got lucky) and took profits, now I'm just waiting to move back into me gold.
maybe 1600
maybe 1400
maybe 1200
no one knows except 5 guys sitting around a table
Martin Armstrong says 1000 I believe, one thing is for sure.
The carnage will be epic cause the level of stupid fish in the gold pond was greater than I have ever seen it.
I'd say 1100
Martin Armstrong thinks he knows a lot more than he actually does. He's living in 1980. This is 2011. Continental perspectives are no longer relevant.
One of the things my mentor told me in 1981 was the data in the world is divided into two groups. 98% of the data you can't trade on; you can't use it to make money. 2% of the data you can trade on. Finding the t2% is slightly challenging, but it can be done. If I can't predict an entry point in the future; and I can't; then neither can he; but I will tell you shen the charts tell me its time to buy. If you examine any of these predictors carefully, you'll find that you really can't trade on the predictions. I suppose the exception to this is if you accept one buy signal every ten years; but nobody does. I had an extremely educational experience trying to get people to buy Silver at $4.35/oz. pre-selected audience; had money, familiiar with the idea of markets; no dice. One of these three men actually spoke to me and said, I wish I could get in at the bottom of a big new bull market. I just stared at him, for a minute, and then I told him you are in at the beginning of a major bull market. All these people had stock market accounts; I tried, and tried to talk to them; it was impossible. they had been so brainwashed by the TV for so many years, thtat they just knew that "Stocks were the only thing". They all lost big time. One of them told me, Silver is no good, it's been going down for years; of course, this is exactly the point; but uh, uh. They change their socks, but they never change their minds. too bad.
I actually bought some 90% when silver was $3.96. Like a dumb ass I had to sell it a few years later but that was damn near the bottom, sometime in the early 80s if I remember right?
Don't feel bad- I looked into gold about ten years ago, right at the beginning of the bull market. Figured out where and how to buy, had a plan, was ready to go... and then just did not bother to actually make the trip to the coin shop to even buy even a single coin. The first day I checked, it was $330/oz.
You can bet your ass I'm not missing any silver opportunities now, after burning myself like that. My intuition is usually good- I just don't always act on it. Gut says silver is still a hell of a good deal right now. Oddly enough, gold just isn't doing it for me right now, though I couldn't say just why.
418 good early call. Back then I was 25% physical and most of the rest in stocks. November of 2008 and early 2009 I got CREAMED to say the least in many 6 figures. Then I licked my gashes and went totally physical 50/50. Since then my gold has almost tripled and my silver has quadroupled. When it looked like gold was about to break 2K and silver way back up and the Bernank due for a Twist-2 speech Friday, everyone knew this attack would happen. The worst thing anyone could do is to sell their insurance. Also go 50% physical in your possesion and 50% outside of the US like Goldmoney.com.
Armstong has a funky wave theory he's been using for a long time, but all the markets are broken. Sinclair actually uses some Armstrong, but includes some real world and other analytical inputs and he has the opposite view. He called for 1650 gold in 2011, ten years ago -- and he was right. He's calling for gold much, much higer. I can't argue with that.
I feel a lot of sympathy for Armstrong; he's very bright, and he really got screwed; but there just isn't any wave theory. Wave theory is entirely a product of "projection" a function of the human mind; People see the waves; but the predictions are not usuable.
Wave theory is predicated on the assumption that the markets are a particularly good medium to reflect human sentiment. When markets don't reflect human sentiment, but instead reflect Ben Bernanke's hairy naked ass as he does a cannonball into the pond, wave theory is worse than useless.
Models and theories that worked in the past when there was less manipulation are the same, pretty much useless and almost guaranteed to kill you.
So are you going to short this Golden Bull or just talk out of your ass again and throw numbers around?
Hey, how's my silver short that doesn't exist going? I was just curious how it was performing in your imaginary land.
You're the one saying silver is going to $20 or something like that, correct? Or have you changed that call?
I have no idea what you're doing Bob, and really don't care.
When did I proclaim I was short silver? I'm just curious because I want you to pull my comments and show me where I said I was "short" silver.
You said on another board that I was short silver.
I AM short gold right now, but I want you to show me where I said I was short silver.
After you don't find it you can shut your little mouth. Bitch.
Can you read asshole? You said silver would be in the low $20's by the end of the year a couple months back. You and Spalding were quoted as saying that.
I never said you were short, but I was wondering how that would be going for you as silver went from $32 to $44 at that time. Comprehension problems Bob?
Ok... is the YEAR OVER ASSHOLE?
You're all up in my jock trying to prove a point that is meaningless.
You said gold would be over 2,000 and silver would be over 50 by year end.
What's your point? Let's see who's right bitch.
You have a small dick and are trying to prove something. I really don't care...I make money, that's what I do. Yea, I shorted gold two days ago....I said it after I made the trade(s) I am in the money...what are you? A shit talker.
*next time you attack me, don't say I'm short something I'm not like you did on the other board. Stop being a bitch, grow some balls and be a man.
You're a big mouth and a fucking asshole. Almost trollish.
You have no cred on this topic. By year end, I will call you out BobTard.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-brief-history-silver-manipul...
"Shorting silver has never felt so good."
Oddly enough from the same thread:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-brief-history-silver-manipul...
"Good time to buy silver...I would buy some if my dealer wasn't asleep.
Mother fuckers need to answer their phones."
Here's the one that makes me think you are just part of the "$5 to dig out of the ground" sock hydra:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/and-now-todays-mini-silver-flash-crash-...
"How much does it cost to mine 1 ounce of silver?"
What do write for Barrons?
check out the action around 1650ish course this is not a popular opinion
This Sunday night.
LOL! How transparent are the market manipulators becoming.
This does explain the drop.
Does anyone have a list of major futures and the % required to trade? Just curious if metals are treated any different than equities, bonds, or other commodities.
cme margins
google; CME.com use your mouse; drill down, etc. etc. everything is on this website. Check back on this blog; I'll anounce when I'm buying Silver again; at the day and hour and price in real time; just like I did last time.
if your IQ actually matched your alias, you would have bought a long time ago.
Made 604% with Aug. 26 expiration puts on GLD.
Looks like i'll be picking up a GLD maple this weekend.
I think these dudes on Bloomberg are waking up to the CME margin hikes (conspiracy).
I don't know if you are tell the truth (it's the internet), but "Dude, I like your style". Using paper puts to buy more physical, nice. Very nice.
exactly
Yeah, i saw what happened with silver in May (still have those january calls worth less than half now), so I bought 7 puts yesterday in the morning @ 48 cents/contract, held them overnight, lost a little sleep... but woke up, sold them @ 2.90/contract. Wait, is that 504%?
It's hard to be short PMs, but it worked out.
i know what you mean...it's harder to tell someone you're short...nice trade dude
Nice going there. Happy for you.
I tried shorting through going long DZZ twice but was too early (too early means WRONG) and bailed near yesterday's low, dammit.
Well done!
Fucking leaky commie bastastards looking out for TPTB. God, the whole world has gone full retard.
Will there be any consequnces? Hell no. I'm ready to bring back the guillotine though . . . .
Fuck this absurdity. Thank you Camu.
I'm not buying that this caused the decline in gold today. I think smart money is taking risk off the table before the Bernank speaks, while the johnny-come-lately buyers are panicking out of their positions. This action creates a nice buying opportunity for those who want to speculate on additional monetary stimulus by the Fed. CME is raising margins as a REACTION to volatility.
After a long time lurking and wringing hands over whether to buy, I recently made the leap and bought some Au and Ag...just in time for this smackdown. Am undaunted though-- in the grand scheme, $70-80 here or there isn't going to matter much. Kudos to Tyler and the ZH posters for getting me off my a$$ and finally doing it.
Me too, but earlier last week. I don't see how any of this can play out without PMs going higher in the end game. I'm wondering if I should buy now or wait for continued smackdown.
Seems like GLD can move the spot price quite a bit? Big outflows this week IIRC.
Wait at least a few more days; watch carefully Friday at lunch time, NYDT. and also Monday. It's seems extremely unlikely this kind of move can be a one day affair. I agree completely, in the medium run; next 2 or 3 years; it really doesn't matter, as long as you plan to hold on to it. I'm trading one contract at a time, partly to keep my hand in, partly as an educational effort here; I anounce what I do in real time, so you can check and see that the price is real. My life savings are entirely in Silver; of course none of that is for sale at this time. It's basically for my grandchildren; although in some odd case it might be converted to some currency or another; it can be converted to any currency; of course; even a newly invented currency. That's the nice thing about it. That and the fact that it doesn't lose buying power like the world-wide fiat experiment; which isn't going all that well.
Many of us will be picking up more gold. U.S. dollar = the ultimate counterparty risk, backed by $100 trillion in on- and off-balance sheet debt that will never, ever be paid back, except by printing. Truth.
Is your avatar Larry from Three's Company? Wondered what his last name was.
If you own some PMs you'll be able to sleep at night, no matter what. Some gold bull analysts have indicted the margins hikes here are not unusual given the price moves and the price amounts. Some hedgies are reportedly going broke in here and making things messy with all the bodies laying about.
Nice notice-- it is Larry from Three's Company. 100% agree with you, feel better after taking possession but timing always ends up being screwy. Just waiting for next entry point....for both Au and Ag.
The next entry point is now, as gold hits support near $1730, dont wait too long dude
I started buying physical silver at the "high" last September. Don't regret it a bit. You won't either.
I'm in a similar situation. I've been stacking silver since November, but just went all in with my former 401-k and baought gold about a month ago. I haven't checked yet today, but even with this beat down--and the silver beat down in may--I'm still aheard of the game.
Keep stacking.
It's even better than that- I started buying silver with both hands in March of this year, after a few months of research, and have bought every two weeks since, ignoring price as best I could. Even after May and today, it's still in the black. Beating my "professionally managed" 401k by 7% even after today's bloodletting.
And it should be noted that about 20% was bought in late April, when things were heating up before the margin hikes. The biggest saving grace was that I stuck to the f'ing plan, and didn't let the correction spook me out- if that would have happened for even a month, my silver spreadsheet would be bleeding red today.
meet me at the reagle beagle...tell no one
Silvergoldsilver says its best. "Price is fucking fiat. Just buy the fucking dips and donate to zero hedge."
ZH has now offered three reasons for the price move today. Are you sure this time Tyler? And who cares? It's a price move. Nothing has changed. 1400 or 4000, doesn't matter. Just wait.
Ever think that a perfect storm of all three is the only way to knock gold down that heavily?
One of them "coordinated -attacks- ... er ... "Policy Moves."
I'm on my knees praying for these pinheads to hike margins again a la silver. Let's you buy more phys under the DHS documentation limit.
Don't you love free markets?
It's odd really....
I have the same amount in my basement now (post $100 drop) as I did this morning...
I guess CME doesn't have dibs on it.
They just did a Breaking News bit on this on Bloomberg TV and explicitly mentioned the manipulation "conspiracy theories" wink nudge. Interesting that Faber called this exact move yesterday
Marc Faber, or Dr. Faber, to be correct, is a class act. If you never did anything but listen to his statements and write them down you'd do pretty darn well.
Ditto!
Is CME JPM - or the other way around? Paper hooligans