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And There's Your Perfectly Leaked Explanation: CME Hikes Gold Margins, Again, This Time By 27%
Two weeks after the CME hiked gold margins by 22%, and two days after the Shanghai Gold Exchange sent them higher by 26%, here comes the CME, as we expected, with another 26% gold margin hike (previously: "Should we expect 3 more SGE margin hikes in the next 2 weeks? Or will the CME rightfully accept the baton and do everything in its power to dent the parabolic rise in the alternative reserve currency? We are cautiously looking at what the CME will do today and will advise readers."). And now we know that this particular margin hike was leaked well in advance, and explains the entire $100 plunge in gold today. And as a reminder, the August 1 CME margin hike worked... for about 30 minutes.
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Demons in a pod.
...this makes me angry.
Got rope?
...no. How about you? http://bible.cc/galatians/6-1.htm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4fvWAtZn64&feature=fvsr
Why? It just provides a buying opportunity. the local traders in New York are going to be buying the bottom of the dip; I tell you this for sure. You can too. Who's going to stop you. Why is it a problem? It's still a bull market.
So, call me captain obvious but I estimate the margin hikes have pushed 50 to 60% total from their baseline. Doesnt that mean that much like the economy they will eventually run out of bullets? And arent they getting closer and closer? What happens when you can only margin 10% and are in a relative 1 to 1 relation...is that when people start to realize we are in a paper market and go parabolic? Real money looking for real product?
This seems all to obvious...forget I posted it.
Bingo...
Just like playing poker. there comes a point where you have so much in the pot the "call" just makes sense. Good pot odds so to speak. At the point of the "call" you are going to find that the CME has shit for hole cards.
Being priced in is good. Having "the nuts" is even better. CME may be drawing dead.
McShirley: when gold starts having 3% per day moves, it will mean the cartel is losing control.
McShirley: when gold starts having 3% per day moves, it will mean the cartel is losing control.
I'd like to see the charts, but that was a very interesting interview.
Well, the main thing is it's nowhere near 1 to 1 margin now. It's still a lot of margin available; as far as I know the thing won't work at some "low enough" margin. I don't know what "low enough" is, okay. But there's definetly a limit to this kind of thing; this margin raising; and the result ultimately would be putting themselves out of business, (the Comex, that is); I'm pretty sure that's not what they have in mind; they like collecting commissions. The product is availble and people are buying it. You can see this at various places on the internet; the interesting thing to me is to see the report that GLD just unloaded a lot of gold; that;s pretty hard on the price, of course. These big ETF's are a factor of instability; when there wealthy investors all run to the left side of the ship at once, the thing does tilt over, for sure. But at the same time, physical buying does continue. My instinct right now is to wait for some bottoming action, I don't think a move like this can clear in one day; maybe next Tuesday, or so. England is closed Monday, which is extrememly important.
Should we expect a 32% hike two weeks from now ?
This is sending the message to the people who are choosing to participate in the futures market that they should ditch this stupid market and get the physical metal.
SON OF F**KING B**CH !!
While the players are known in the futures that are unknown,
My interests have been gradually converting paper goods into physical goods for the better part of 2 years, and we are continuing to this day gradually converting the remaining portions of various accounts into the same.
Always encourage anyone who requests of you advice or information on purchasing either gold or silver for the first time, to purchase their goods in physical form only.
The shelf life of the folding currency paper known in its present form is coming to an end soon.
The paulson wipeout is upon us just like Martin Armstrong thought. Good call.
Boy, bargain basement precious metals from wiped out hedgies. whodathunk.
yum
keep the powder dry, this is looking 2006ish
Yep, I am happy and was expecting this, and surprised it didn't hit earlier. I had a the grin mostly because they're so freaking predictable about knocking down the price before opex, that I've recommended people buy the day before when it goes down hard -- so I look like a genius to my friends.
I bought in to silver on this dip -- it was down more on a percentage than gold was and I was looking for a good entry.
i love you Tyler. no homo.
I'm a buyer in here.
So is the SEC or justice dept. going to investigate this insider trading on the leaked margin hike?
Oh I forgot. Criminal investigations are for the little people.
It is time for some rope. Hang them all at the SEC and start over fresh.
Well, come on, now. You don't expect people to be honest when there are millions os dollars on the table, do you? just from a "power lunch conversation"; if you read the history of bond markets and stock markets in England, for instance, in the nineteenth century; it makes this thing look like it's run by boy scouts. People have always done "insider trading", and had non-public prior knowledge; always; it's basically impossible to prevent.
Exactly what time was the CME's notification of gold margin hike officaily released?
I assume right around Bloomberg's breaking news announce, so about half an hour ago.
Gee, this doesn't seem rigged at all
Not trading in the paper gold or silver paper markets, I'm loving these margin hikes. Everytime they hike I'm buying physical. Sometimes it's just a few grams of gold or a few ounces of silver. Sometimes I buy more. Point is, I'd like to personally thank the exchanges for manipulating the market lower so everytime the jackasses do it I'm gonna hit em'. We're all hitting them. We're right there to buy the real thing on sale. Thanks again assholes.
What is Nouriel's problem (on Twitter) just now? Inappropriate to use ignoramous and hypocritical for ZH.
This is a further indication of just how COURRPT the USA has become. I have never seen such a concerted effort to destroy products like this.
love the current exchanges between tyler and roubini currently on twitter... go at him tyler
Let's say hypothetically there would be a "good reason" to do this. What would that reason be? Also, why do the margin hikes affect the price of physical so drastically?
Start here http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/2009_01_04_archive.html
Re: "What would that reason be? Also, why do the margin hikes affect the price of physical so drastically?"
You need to study FOFOA, GATA and related links. Google it. The PM price manipulation is a desperate attempt to prolong the life of paper currencies. These are coordinated attacks using every trick available, so the impact is enhanced.
All markets are contrived. Always have been, always will be.
I am looking for stock to sell to buy more gold.
cool, i sold my paper gold off for a nice profit and have been rebuying as the fall goes along. it'll probably fall a bit more, but it'll be right back up there in a week or two tops. No skin off my nose, I just get to buy 9% more gold than I had before.... and perfect timing too, as a CD just came to term... so, more funds to fuck around with. If you play Forex at all, this is gonna be a really nice ride up to the top.
Couldn't agree more on the Forex ride. CHF and JPY are now just 2 more fiats that must eventually fail. Don't care abvout the sequence, just trading the volatility of several pairs. Profits go to physical assets, PM's and income properties.
See you at the top - best wishes.
Roubini: "Ignoramus remark as Fed cant never be insolvent as it issues currency"
lulz ensue
I wonder if Gartman and his Gold Top Call today was given this most valuable insider information or if the MSN just pays him to state such things after every margin based cleansing of the stupid weak leveraged weak long speculators.
Now that we know the real reason for this pull back the bull is stronger than ever and the cash buyers will be backing up their trucks. Whatever the Fed does it will be wrong and currency debasement will continue whether through synthetic QE3 or expansion of bank credit. Doesn't matter, the fiat currencies of the western world are burning and will not recover from terminal debt.
Great scoop Zero Hedge! Power to the little guys!
I wonder if Gartman and his Gold Top Call today was given this most valuable insider information or if the MSN just pays him to state such things after every margin based cleansing of the stupid weak leveraged weak long speculators.
Now that we know the real reason for this pull back the bull is stronger than ever and the cash buyers will be backing up their trucks. Whatever the Fed does it will be wrong and currency debasement will continue whether through synthetic QE3 or expansion of bank credit. Doesn't matter, the fiat currencies of the western world are burning and will not recover from terminal debt.
Great scoop Zero Hedge! Power to the little guys!
Or he could be trying to drive the price down so he can get back in at a lower price. Then he'll come on TV and say "I had to get back in because central banks are unexpectedly printing more money." He's done this on CNBC several times already. Talking heads using the MSM for their own self-interests...
OKAY THEN.
How many Troy Ounces of Silver are in one GigaWatt of solar PV panels? That is how many Solar Millennium AG will permanently take off the market as they build their 1GW photovoltaic panels at the Blythe Solar Power Project in California. How many more GigaWatts will we need to install to meet our energy requirements? Do the math. All the Silver is spoken for and more. Buy and hold physical only. Forget the CME.
Source: http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/intelligent-energy/shock-technology-shif...
You do not have to use one atom of silver to produce solar panels. You can even use non silver solder. You can do tabbing material in ANY metal that conducts electricity. It's just easier to use silver it rolls down easier works with less material. Electronics industry can etch out panels and eutectic ball mount individual cells on the panel. Get more panel output anyway.
I have to disagree with the general consensus here.
Gold had become overbought. That is the reality.
Gold needs to consolodate if it is to go any higher. The $400 unrelentless run needed to take a breather. What's evryone so anxious about ... gold is merely where it was last week. It's not like the sky fell out.
Anyone watching the action could have seen a correction coming, regardless of the CME. Sometimes we have to stop blaming people and just accept the facts as they are.
This isn't over yet. But if your long term view is up then what happens in a short time frame should not matter.
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.com/2011/08/time-to-take-closer-look-at-gold.html
Exactly, nothing goes straight up or down. I dont know if gold will be at $4000 or $400 in 2 years, but if you see people who NEVER thought of doing investments suddenly buying gold, you know that some weak hands have entered the market who will get crushed before the rally continues (if it does)
I think Trav7777 got this one right. It was timed for maximum effect to the downside! Since there was a healthy correction in progress, what was the need for a rate hike? Make more options expire worthless? I am loving it though. Almost as much as I love pulling up a 10 year gold chart beside a 10 year DJIA chart and asking a 'financial advisor' which one is more "volatile"? Keep stacking.
from bloomberg:
Gold plunged $104 in New York, capping the biggest drop since March 2008, on speculation that financial markets may be stabilizing, eroding the appeal of the precious metal as a haven.
bwaaaaaahhaaaahhaaaaahhaaaaa............
Well, as Hitler said; if you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one, and repeat it frequently. But, I really don't think the "wonder weapons" are going to make the Russians go reeling back across Poland to their own borders. I mean, there is such a thing as reality.
Where are we going to someday put this cowering pack of conniving jackals? Here is where they belong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwA3AJPWphQ
Pretend I'm a total retard, what is options expiration going to do to spot prices?
rather than roll forward to a new contract the holder will sell rather than roll forward when spot is dropping during opex. the situation is exacerbated during option expiration when tptb increase margin requirements.
Likely increase as the sellers of calls at higher strike prices will have pocketed the premiums they got from those poor bastards that bought calls at higher strikes. Tuco
as mentioned many times before if tptb tank silver and gold many buyers like me will be in the market buying the physical. a paper loss is a physical gain.
Martin Armstrong posted today:
Gold
http://www.10sigma.com/files/Gold%2008-24-2011.pdf
The markets followed through after Friday’s closing but gold failed to close
ABOVE 1900 last week and bounced off the projected resistance for this week 1910-1960 for this week topping at 1917. The sharp decline suggests a temporary high is coming as of this week, just four days early although the price target was achieved. The closing support remains at 1730 and a daily close beneath that area would warn of a nearby correction and we have a temporary high. A mere closing BELOW 1780 today will keep gold BEARISH for now. This is the correction that seems to be due for this period, but we need a weekly closing BELOW 1617 to confirm that. A further weekly closing BELOW1583 would warn of a serious correction to flush-out a lot of people before any uptrend could resume.
Volatility will rise in November and should remain fairly high for the first quarter next year. A month-end closing
BELOW
1630 would signal a serious correction is likely back to retest 1350.
This is the ideal
QUARTER for the high being 43 such quarters from the 1999 low (5 x 8.6). At the very least, we should get one quarter correction with a max up to three taking us into the second quarter next year. That outcome would be indicated by a year-end closing BELOW
1427.
The bull market I not over long-term. The market will reveal its intent based upon the closings laid out. We did
NOT get through the NORMAL projected resistance at 1910-1960, so that is good news in that we avoided a PHASE TRANSITION up to 2500 that would have warned we are in VERY serious trouble until the ECM
turns in 2015.75
A detailed update will follow shortly.
hillarious...lets meet down at the coin store in november shall we and buy those eagles for $1350
I'll have to put in a few extra shifts at work now we're going to be getting the good stuff at those prices!
I'm sorry, but it's just gibberish. It should be obvious from studying this note, that it's completely useless.
You remind me of the dickhead in 'Good Will Hunting' from the bar scene who makes these arguments to intentionally belittle others, while masking your own shortcomings. Listen, having a small pecker isn't the end of the world, Jack. You don't need to make up for it with your supposed high IQ. Just accept the small package that God gave you and deal with it.
Thanks for reminding me why I have no use for "technical analysis".
Reading charts & conjuring up predictions. Like looking at grass & predicting when it's gonna rain.
For the real scoop of bullcrap
tune to CNBS...
All day the rotating talking heads have been harping the gold bubble spin. Yep, folks is gettin scared and movin to those safer UST's don't ya know? Gold is finished blahblahblah.
Some people are taking about today's Sell Off in Gold as a sign that Bernanke "will do nothing" and his "tool box" is empty. We see this "trash Gold operation" as a part of PPT plan to save the market again. Please do not make any mistake - it is not for the sake of investors, at least not ordinary ones with their pension plans - it is for the insolvent financial system in order to keep it running. The falling market in the deflation death spiral with ticking up CDS on all banks, with the stars like Bank of America in the headlines, will make the real financial meltdown is just one policy mistake away.
http://sufiy.blogspot.com/2011/08/gold-vix-panic-and-ppt-in-action-will....
How refreshing to see a little bit of contra-lemming-speak around here... lol
World record blowout selling volume on GLD the last two days.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=GLD&p=D&yr=0&mn=9&dy=0&id=p38542787277
Tom O'Brien will be squealing "Down with volume from the highs!!!"
He expects the ongoing correction to last for more than a year.
World record blow out unicorn race yesterday too. Shits Rainbows won the freakness in 27 seconds.
Turd,
Really like and appreciate your site, but I respectfully disagree with the leagage of a margin hike. From wave counting perspective, we had a clear 5 waves up in a parabolic move. Yes, it continued to subdivide, but I argue (and did, with my account) that you could hedge your physical at this kind of juncture. I covered my hedge today and will accept my physical going down more from this point as long as this remains a 3-wave move to the down side and nothing more. Should it look or behave differently I will change my view to adding hedges.
So in short, it was a good time to institute some protection. That does not mean that the banks aren't eager to maintain price controls because many of us agree with you that they are. As a trader, however, I must trade what I see.
This bears repeating..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frppeozyZDI&feature=related
The use of the word parabolic reveals everything we need to know about your educational status. "hedge your physical at this kind of junctiure" is merely meaningless llanguage. There aren't any waves; they waves are all in your mind. I sold by Dec. Si. at $43.80; anounced at the time here, because of simple chart reading; simple after twenty years, anyway. I have no idea where the bottom is and neither do you. I will anounce it when I see it; and I may be wrong.
Who gives a flying fuck what my educational status is, or what your IQ is for that matter. How successful you are at making money and keeping it is all that matters. Wave patterns are for managing risk, that's it. I never said they predict the market. Never said I knew where the bottom is. Make your announcements or not, I could care less, you arrogant prick.
Turd,
Really like and appreciate your site, but I respectfully disagree with the leakage of a margin hike being the whole reason behind it. From a wave counting perspective, we had a clear 5 waves up in a parabolic move. Yes, it continued to subdivide, but I argue (and did, with my account) that you could hedge your physical at this kind of juncture. I covered my hedge today and will accept my physical going down more from this point as long as this remains a 3-wave move to the down side and nothing more. Should it look or behave differently I will change my view to adding hedges.
So in short, it was a good time to institute some protection. That does not mean that the banks aren't eager to maintain price controls because many of us agree with you that they are. As a trader, however, I must trade what I see. I still think gold remains in an uptrend until proven otherwise.
This alone should cause riots in the streets. Can there be a clearer indication that the whole market is a scam? Didn't realize "we the people" was actually "we (not including the little) people?"
Ah yes, the Silver spot is back to close to where it was last week or two weeks ago before the big run up. If the numbers will just get below 41 I will back up the truck.
If you are buying on Margin, you need to go sit at the kids table still. Buy cash and take delivery, everything else is bullshit and fantasy.
I understand the advice, and I'm secure.
But this is literally the fleecing of America.
How much more will it take before everyone realizes a few control the majority. The selloff followed by the news of a margin hike points to some major corruption.
Aha!
When they do, the PRICES will GO so high... Gold 5K Silver 500 or more and not a coin to be found anywhere outside of the US mint.
That is one reason I abandoned the City as a way of life.
Imagine. CME Hikes margins on that day to 1000% and bulls still trample them to get the Physical that they no longer have. I have chills and feelings that I have thought long dead thinking about the end of days scenario such as that.
Silver's got to be a facking buy now! Why don't we arrest the criminals at the CME and be done with it? Oh, wait, never mind! Can something be a crime when the government asks you to do it?
Everybody and their brother are attempting to "make their year" by gunning the double whammy DZZ.
Check out the gargantuan volume today and yesterday:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=DZZ&p=D&yr=0&mn=9&dy=0&id=p45217573050
Folks, people who are buying gold in the futures market are buying gold contracts to make MONEY. These are different from those that buy bullion for the end of world trade. Any time you make a purchase on margin you will be victim to the masters of the universe who control credit. The end game will arrive when the discrepancy between bullion and paper gold increases to the point where paper gold no longer prices bullion. Until then, all you bullion holders will be at the mercy of the issuers of fiat.
Approximately what percent of our economy is rigged?
Hint. It's 3 digits. Tuco
Oh, I don't know. If you count the black markets, then it's only in the high double-digits.
over the long haul as gold and silver continue to plow higher as the usa empire and the fiat regime implodes days like today when gold drops or rises $100 will be the norm. at $5000 per ounce i know i would not even blink an eye if gold rose $100 per ounce.
Welcome to todays game fans, Since The Royals have taken the lead 3-2 in the 4th inning, the Yankees will now get 10 outs each inning and the Royals will get one out per inning....
Big thx to the CME. Keep it up. Raise the requirements to 100%. Load up on physical.
Bitchez galore baby.
Sling shot engaged. what a great day to buy!
as they say in talladega nights SHAKE N BAKE!
And all of the die-hard gold bugs thought that the lawmakers (who authorized the last 100 years of counterfeiting) were going to stand aside and allow the citizenry to become enriched through ownership of a counterparty-free asset class in place of paper scrip?
ROFLMFAO - they have torched the gold market until all the "important shorts" are covered after which gold will see record highs...In the meantime, $1,650 here we come........
Silver never retook the steep climb of april 2011, after the hikes. Hmmm. Future for gold?
That was only 4 months ago. Give it some time and stack some more while you're waiting.
good news for serious stackers - confirmation that fundamentals are strong.
bad news for speculators - confirmation that only the select few will profit.
Cavuto on FOX Business just asked the head of the CME - live, if someone leaked the information about the margin increase ! Fucker looked guilty as hell, as he said no !
This is all a frontrun folks ! Little guy need not apply ! 30 minutes since the market opened and Gold is holding strong. What ? all the options holders already cleared out ! LOL
Obvious (period)
P.S. There has been a $4 spread on the price since the open. Is this Hunt Bros. 2.0 in the making ?
This shits like playing monopoly with my sister... starts losing, fuck it change the rules. don't like the outcome, cry to ... change the rules.
I added as much as I could today...will add silver soon when it drops to near 36.....
GL! ...and God Bless our Free Market!
Roubini going nuts on Twitter.
It is interesting as ZH has pointed out that Interactive Brokers seems to know when these are coming.
http://how-to-trade-armageddon.com/
All in BitchZ !
deleted
I agree. As it looks right now all the option holders that were going to sell already did, before the margin increase hit the wires. Price is down a little but holding strong.
Looks like the punk "pre margin increase tipped-off announcement sellers" just got "punked" BBWWWWAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAhAAA ! is that a double reverse PSY-OP or what ?
Suckers !
It seems strange to see people invest in a market where the rules are changed so predictably that plenty of folks here at ZH can easily call the margin hikes in advance. When the time for the "final rule change" comes, the house will run the table and leave everyone else with huge losses. The house always wins. And TPTB will say that the evil speculators (insert your photo here) got exactly what they deserved.
I bought quite a lot of PMs on borrowed money (from my 401K) back in 03' through '06. Yes, I'm smiling!
But, why would a person, desirous of borrowing in a dying currency to purchase a living one, not simply borrow the money elsewhere and buy the physical? The COMEX paper is just as worthless as the Bernakes being wagered to buy it.
There is no margin hike when you get the money "off the market" and buy the phyzz, "off the market". There is not nearly enough silver in the warehouses to cover these trades. As long as people still show up to play, this criminal enterprise is still supported. They cannot lose. Which means.... eventually, that you cannot win. Er, I believe the popular descriptive term is......"Bitchezz"? No?
That's no shit, Shineola:)
"But, why would a person, desirous of borrowing in a dying currency to purchase a living one, not simply borrow the money elsewhere and buy the physical? The COMEX paper is just as worthless as the Bernakes being wagered to buy it."
Prudence. I know it's no longer stylish, but it still works fine.
I have no idea how long this is all going to take, and neither do you- that being said, I borrowed from my 401k as well. What I won't do, and have already passed on a half-dozen times, is take out loans that can land me in court if I don't pay- there's just too high a chance that the paper price could shit the bed and stay low for just long enough to push me into bankrupcy, and I have small children to take care of. Wouldn't work out well to have a safe full of metal while we are living out of a van.
Doesn't take forever for margin buying to kill you- it just takes a day longer than you can hold out.
Someone indeed leaked this one. I sold last Friday and will hop right back in after the meeting Friday. I can buy even more this time. I just sold as I thought the powers that be would bring it down for the meeting. We cannot have Bernanke trying to explain gold now that the MSM was all upset. Physical only for me!!
You guys. You just have to fess up and take your punishment now the TRUTH is out at the BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14656210
Apparently there is some economic GOOD NEWS in the USA and THAT is what has brought gold and silver tumbling down.
Well, that and the necessity to get GLD lower without actually trying to sell it off directly. All the bars that are leaving the repositories are destined for Chavez. Otherwise it would be too difficult to figure out which of the 100 customers his actual bars had been sold too, and who would actually cough up the good stuff.
'Gold price drops sharply on US economy hopes'
sounds like economic GOOD NEWS to me.
Propaganda, but good news nonetheless.
Another sale? Aw shucks cartel, you guys are so dang thoughtful, ok I'll take a few more, here's my paper money, now go pay off some bondholders somewhere.
Is anybody making book on Hugo actually receiving his GOLDsten bars?
For a guy with a lot of oil and not much of a military, he sure seems to live dangerously.
Maybe that sumbitch is a harborin' sum terr-ists down there?
That Chavez was reported to have been letting Iran build medium range missile bases, capable of taking out our refineries and theoratically other important places including Arkansas. That is our soft underbelly and it might hurt. Dont underestimate him.
Let's play the game called Thermonuclear War.
If somebody creates an unauthorized gold standard and can't be invaded / beaten down like the K-Daffy i assume the only course of action is to crash the price of gold.
It's funny because he intends to send his tungsten to Russia.
Yes, he might have some of the "bad" Al Qaeda down there, not to be confused with the "good" Al Qaeda (some of whom have admitted killing GIs in previous conflicts) that are assiting NATO in taking down sovereign Libya.
Bros & Sista's,
We KNOW why GOLD has been taken down.(the same damn reason it's ALWAYS taken down).
It's because the market is CONTROLLED BY THE PAPER MARKETS.(ETF's)
End of friggin story.
When they are gone, all HELL breaks loose.
It's actually the EPA that's been quietly taking out our refineries.
The third world tin-pot dictator we need to worry about is sitting in the Oval Office.
100% correct. there sure are a lot nice pretty colored distractions tho, aren't there.
Tyler, I'm disappointed in you. I thought I had educated you to understand that no price chart is or becomes "parabolic"; using ignorant illiterate terminology is never desirable; even if you are pandering to the ignorant bloggers. Sometimes price charts become exponential; exponential, Tyler; go ahead; you too can be literate. it's not hard.
Proof that your IQ is not 145. 45 "maybe"!
Stop beating that dead horse, buddy.
Here:
Parabola (quadratic) equation, simple form:
y=ax^2+bx+c
This describes most stock curves, when it happens. The Y-axis is price. The X-axis is time, and if you start from a certain point and move forward, plotting the points from the quadratic equation, you get the positive half of the parabola. X needs to be an imaginary number for the result to present on the negative side of the axis of symmetry, so if you discount the possibility of imaginary negative time occuring in the markets, which I think is a pretty reasonable thing to discount, describing a continously accellerating price point as parabolic is perfectly acceptable.
An exponential price chart would need to be graphed on a logrhythmic scale within hours, as the demand variable is located in the exponent rather than the against time squared. That would be a hyperbolic or vertical market. It can, and has happened, but it means really bad things are happening as you watch. No markets that I am aware of are acting like that right this minute, and gold is definitely not. If it went through $2000, and then shot to $10,000 and $100,000 in a matter of days, that would be exponential- not a $300 pop.
Just in time for the Holiday gift season. Give her Tungsten!
It's the new gold.
I seem to recall a story quite a while back about somebody buying a yacht full of gold options expiring around this time or next month at around $1,800. As gold was WAY further back at the time it made big news as in "does this person know something or are they just plumb crazy?" So, gold closes down 10%! at $1,758 today. Velllly interesting sidebar, I think.
Yeah, I remember reading about that huge gold position. It kinda reminds me of when Hillarity made all that money in the copper market a few years back.
Nothing smells quite as nice as freshly laundered currency!
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/buyer-2000-december-1800-calls-back-sec...
Yes, here's a link..
as of tonite, open interest on the Dec 1800c is 16,089 priced $85.70
Actually what happens is that battle ships hips Hillary invested in cattle futures and made $100,000 on her first trade. When queried after the fact by the establishment media as to how she did so well she said, and I shit you not, "I read an article in the Wall Street Journal". Of course, it was a payoff of some sort but that's okay if you have sold your soul to the devil and also wear his wedding ring!
Tuco
Thanks, Tuco! I had the commodity wrong, but the criminal right. -Shine
Hope they cashed out . . . or even better, take delivery!
Good memory, they bought $1,000,000 (cost basis) of options at .25-.50 so fucken far out of the money it seemed silly, I remember reading that if gold went to $1700 (or $1800) the person could make up to $25mm, I wonder if 1. they cashed out yet, but probably not as that many contracts crossing would be noticed 2. the name will be disclosed 3. they took delivery on some, I would sell 3/4 and use cash to buy 1/4 for delivery...free gold
So they are trying to disquise a rise from 1620 to 1750 as a rise to 1900 and a drop to 1750.
If they keep raising the margins, then only the rich will be able to buy gold. But isn't this how it always is? The little guy always gets fucked. As for Krugman the only jobs he knows about are the ones that begin with the letter B.
Bank jobs, Krugmans a bank robber, sumbich, I knew he wasn't an economist...thanks for that :)
This is a good thing, we can go out and buy physical gold and silver cheaper (until it runs out)
This is absolutely criminal...
Kazachstan has decided to stop exporting gold starting with its 2012's bars prepared for export - the national bank will buy it all.
the source in russian http://lenta.ru/news/2011/08/24/gold1/
The CFTC is corrupt? They were set up to be corrupt, their purpose to enbable bank corruption of markets and to block attempts at transparency and truth.
You want the criminals to continue on happily then you have their toys (congress) create an agency to oversight them and then have them choose its appointments. Simple, the criminals are their own 'police'.
Hey Tyler,
What is the vigorish, on another margin increase from the CME, by the Comex open in the morning ? This ain't looking so good for them ! Already back up to $1760.00
TIA
Ready to pull the trigger on another few hundred zzz's of Silver from apmex !
Only communists believe things go up forever
So I've been reading Zerohedge obsessively for months now but honestly I only understand 25% of these posts, I stack PMs but have zero background in economics and know very little about the stock market [I still don't know what margins, futures, etc are exactly], anyways can any of you recommend a book/website so that I can understand what the fuck y'all are talking about please thank you
kekeke, most of what passes for economics these days is just crap. Read Henry Hazlett's "Economics in One Lesson". He wasn't an economist, so the book actually makes sense. Then, subscribe to the "Daily Reckoning", it is on-line and free.
http://www.amazon.com/Economics-One-Lesson-50th-Anniversary/dp/093007319...
http://dailyreckoning.com/
Keke... I don't pay attention to the television or anyone has to say about anything on the market. Up or down makes no difference.
I read zero hedge over a year and still not sure about some things myself.
So.
Buy low, sell high. Never borrow (Margin) to buy something. Do it cash and take delivery. Don't buy a paper share of anything. And watch your fees. They can eat you up if you are not buying/selling with attention to basic costs to you per unit.
I can buy 50 silver ASE at 40 each for 2000 dollars. Wait a week and sell 50 at ... 46.00 each. THen wait until the market falls back down to about 41 or so. Then buy more than 50 ASE. Always accumulate.
When the final breakout and gold to 5K and silver to 100+ I dont do anything but WAIT.
I've been buying physical only for a couple years now, still too chicken to sell anything other than palladium (which I traded for silver)
thanks for the tips!
I was just looking at that book on amazon! thanks
I btfd though
Where's what I don't understand. How is the price of gold or silver ever going to go higher if all they have to do is raise the margin requirements whenever they feel the price is getting too high? Can this be done infinitely? And if so, then how can gold be a safe haven against inflation?
Don't worry about the so called "price" of gold and silver. Buy the physical, as secretly as you can, and wait. When the dollar dies, you will have that which only a few will possess. True Wealth.
Food and Ammo will not be falling in price either, so load up on them too.
Well they can only raise margin requirements up until the point where their customers are no longer allowed to make bets on margin.
Well they can only raise margin requirements up until the point where their customers are no longer allowed to make bets on margin.
Can someone more informed please tell me if there is a method to these margin raises? I remember the previous increase in margin earlier this month had come along with increases in margin for all other investments. Are these increases random or automatic (based on volitality). I mean, I know everyone here has a natrual reaction to shout "Conspiracy" but I just want to make sure that these margin increases are actually a deliberate attempt to manipulate the price of gold downward and not rooted in actual theory.
Also, how many more margin increases are possible? How close are we to investors simply not being able to trade gold on the Comex with any margin at all? Thanks.
Conspiracy? It's hard to explain the true meaning of "street smart" to someone who has never been in an actual street fight.
Here is a good way to evaluate if you are getting ready to dole out an ass-kicking to some un-wise opportunists:
You see 4 dudes coming down the street toward you. You casually change sides of the street. If they change sides, you glance hurridly at your watch and change back to the original side of the street. If they switch back with you, it ain't no co-incidence. It's a conspiracy.
Get your hand on your piece, and your ass behind solid cover.
Fish-in-a-barrel time. Come to Papa!
I go with three steps or less.
If I change direction slightly once and the person of interest steps towards me I say, stay back, I have nothing for you and change direction again.
If POI makes a second move and keeps closing the distance, I present weak side and place hands into the recognize position and one on the weapon. And tell him in a much louder tone, GET back, I dont KNOW you or what you want. GET BACK.
If he takes one more step... then I will have to draw. That should either end the problem or ,...it's out of my hands.
What do you have against conspiracies? It's fucking obvious. Maybe you should ask where you got your reflexive belief that there are no conspiracies (hint: it's part of your basic programming).
Because you guys think everything is a conspiracy. I like to look for a little thing called evidence. Still waiting for an answer to my question.
In a properly run conspiracy, there is no evidence before the trap is sprung. And there always plausible denial afterward. That's why it is so easy to suck in the un-initated.
Good judgement is the result of having experience. Experience is often the result of having faulty judgement.
It is really a question of "why should I trust "X" not to lie, and to act in my self interest"?
Well, I suppose you could just trust that guys like ol'Lloyd Blankity-blank really are just doin' God's work........
http://www.businessinsider.com/guess-how-much-wall-street-borrowed-from-...
Ya, know. I think you're right. I'm just being paranoid.
Food commodities, oil, gas, etc. the term "conspiracy" may be correct in that the gov't(s) don't want speculators driving up dramatically prices of things the avg. person needs to survive, and truthfully that's probably the right thing to do, there are enough other things people, funds, etc. have to speculate and make $$$, as for Gold, silver, etc. It's not a conspiracy however it is a very specific effort to take smaller speculators out of the markets. I think it's wrong, should be done transparently i.e. 1-2 days notice, there is NO benefit to anyone to surprise us, but for those of us who still want to play, just be wise enough to figure that if gold goes up $300 there will be margin hikes, same with anything, and be prepared, don't get greedy, and when this happens KNOW the next buy level, for me it's $1650 using a 50% retracement from recent low to high, I already bought puts today and have orders in to but futures contracts at $1655 (in case I just miss the low)...........Thoughts?
i think FED allready implement plan,however for gold bears it could be interesting:
The downgrade by S&P with head mr.sharma was an operation “World Corp” against “World Bank Corp” and they lost,mr.Sharma was try throw insider trade to shut down US markets and install pro-corporation government which is now weak pro-banking government,he used weak point thinking they can to succeed,he forgot-he has not printing press of Beny Shalom and lost.Now,to every one attention the calculations made of long term ETFs and ETNs holders in gold,while bullish ETFs and ETNs during last 3years worked perfect making almost 2% for each gold rise in 1%(i meaning DBs),the bear funds was so much smashed that now i set some home work to find that any bear who invested in DB GLL or DZZ at the gold price 850$ is currently loosing at very big,so,other investors should know that if you bring the gold price from current levels into 850$ price the GLL will reflect 60$(when gold was 680$ GLL was issued at 125$),this meaning that to get to the original investment price investors will be lacking 30-35%,same with DZZ-this is very unadeqate situation,where the bears positions was squezed while gold bug benefited at rise,this to the Banks of Deutsche Bank which had stollen via 3years from investors 30-35% and this could be a good big case against bank on behalf those ETF,ETNs holders.Bank must brink equality into pairs DZZ/DGP,GLL/UGL.Things simple as banking cartel benefited from bulling gold even more that any gold bug on the planet via comissions,instruments and broker dealing process.But where is fairness in those markets?If admit that on the way from 850$ gold to 1900$ bears lost in DZZ case from 27$ down to 4$ minus 30% unrecoverable %,make summation on the way back to 850$ and i think totally bears may get just 30% from initial paid price,where the 60% then?DeutscheBank and firends who are now expecting to be all time no cash banks!
In the bank statement written that both ETFs/ETNs is reflecting similary situation in the market futures.However we would like to ask bank,how during gold rise DB ETFs/ETNs bulls benefited according to statement,while bears if the gold price going back to 850$ would get only 30-35% less from money invested in funds.The Banks like DB recommending to use those instruments as short term and not as the buy&hold investment-its very clear that on DB gold bull ETFs those policies did not apply and I calling the bank to respond to unfare practices,because only buy &hold practice in gold DB bulls could to deliver results as metal was in buy&hold stand,would the banking managers offer us to trade each time those ETFs to get for them fees?I think yes,they just had lie to those who believed that International Gold Cartel was interesting to advertise together with companies and Gold Council the metal which has no practical use in current days untill some political willingness,however I would like people if the value of gold is so high what price bread farmer will be selling for gold?Think twice,as your gold holding may soon became coal compare to prices of food,they just can catch up running after gold and you dear gold bug will stand with yellow metal and cry,because corporations and mining industry thise is those who sold to you idea of the gold valuable asset ,food is a valuable cause we cannot leave without it,but we can leave without gold!However,those who interesting in writing united letter to the DeutscheBank London branch issuer of the GLL and DZZ can leave here they messages and we can build some compensation case because stealing 30% from your value is criminal!
http://trendybull777.blog.com/
gold is in permanent and severe backwardation regardless of what the fraudulent paper markets report.....the rapid and massive margin hikes are proof of my thesis....gold is moving from weak hands to strong hands.....he who owns the gold makes the rules....
cme and other exchanges are bankrupt and in a panic....
This makes no sense. Backwardation is a term that has no meaning without contracts (I.e. Paper). Gold was recently temporarily in backwardation (for like an hour).
I'm bullish, but this statement makes no sense.
So if I have an AK47 and you have some gold nuggets you can tell me what to do?