• Sprott Money
    05/06/2016 - 06:03
    The US, in its own decline, is showing this same self-destructive tendency. The worse things get, the greater the inclination of the citizenry to say, “Carry on, everything’s fine.”

Andy Lees Kills The Argument Of Endless Debt-Funded Stimulus

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Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:37 | 1685773 TruthInSunshine
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Paul Krugman begins stalking Andy Lees.

Get a personal protection order and a Glock, Andy.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:38 | 1685783 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

OMG Michelle Obama went OFF calling some people WHITEY? WTF!!?


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:45 | 1685810 franzpick
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And after owebama's earlier "you guys" remark and his renewed class warfare economic strategy, it's only a matter of time until we hear him make the fatal slip addressing wealthry taxpayers or other groups as "You People".

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:46 | 1685816 hambone
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Andy explains why the world shouldn't do what it's gonna do.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:57 | 1685875 MillionDollarBonus_
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As usual, Andy Lees completely fails to understand the key principles of Keynesian economics. Firstly, it is fallacious to criticise the policies Keynesian economists when they themselves admit that the government's fiscal stimulus programs have been insufficient at best and cowardly at worst. Following each fiscal stimulus package there has inevitably been a boost in GDP. The fall only comes when the stimulus is withdrawn. From this pattern we can infer that the economy performs better under a centrally planned environment than a chaotic anarchic environment. And of course this is what you would expert, given that in a centrally planned economy a higher proportion of the capital is allocated by educated connoisseurs of elite intelligence, rather than people who would rather be watching reality TV or monster truck racing.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:57 | 1685893 flacon
flacon's picture

I find it ironic that the paper fiat money proponents who believe in more stimulus the Keynesian way often will dismiss gold as a viable reserve currency because they say that "there isn't enough gold to go around". Well if they really stopped to think about it, the reason we are almost at the end of their system is precicely that: "There isn't enough paper money to go around - because if there was we will all be living in Zimbabwe."

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:00 | 1685908 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:36 | 1686265 Pure Evil
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Yep, those centrally planned government economies work out just well.

How's the centrally planned government of Cuba working out, or the one in the Soviet Union, oh that's right, it imploded. And, if you really love a centrally planned economy, head on over to China, it's about to implode both fiscally, and politically.

And, let's don't forget Solyandra is about to roll over into a grave taking over $500 million with it.

Here we are with our centrally planned economy chugging out a deficit of $1.5 trillion a year and over $14 trillion in public debt with no way to pay it all back even if we taxed everyone and everything at 100%. And don't forget that's just the Federal government racking up debt, and we haven't even started considering how deep the states are indebted.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:33 | 1686260 captcorona
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I find it interesting that the "Anti_Gold" people think that math doesn't work in two directions. The result of a stagnation in Gold Production would be an increase in Gold Purchasing power...Which in return would reward savers, sounds good to me! Reward those who are productive and have Capital Creation. What a concept!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:08 | 1685949 mayhem_korner
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<< Methman reincarnate?

<< Huff-post shill?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:15 | 1685977 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

I dunno he is a different one :)

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:20 | 1686003 Toma Haja
Toma Haja's picture

uhhh, you are kidding, right?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:53 | 1686121 sasebo
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How about the growth aftert WWII? Was that centrally planned? Of course not. And what did the keynesians predict would happen after the war? Wrong!!!!!!! You conveniently forgot about that huh?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:18 | 1686215 fonestar
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I will take the anarchic movements of the free market any day.  The free market as in, that created and funded by engineers, leaders and business, inventors, innovators and people producing good and services while saving capital.  Not the couch potatos and definitely not your central planners!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 18:30 | 1686406 BetterOffDead
BetterOffDead's picture

Yeah, man, don't you know all that spending is going to ignite the animal spirits? Don't ask me to quantify those, though...

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 21:37 | 1687054 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

MDB kicks ass again. You are my idol. You are the bestest. You make Obama teleprompter reading somewhat bearable because we know he has no fucking clue what he is saying.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 02:01 | 1687733 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

MillionDollarBonus, these 'educated connoisseurs of elite intelligence', perhaps you could point me in the direction of one of them?

That would be like buying a new suite, TV and lounge furniture on your credit card and then sitting back thinking 'Yes, I've made it. Haven't I done well?'

The problem as always is paying for it...

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 04:47 | 1687881 outsidertrader
outsidertrader's picture

Errr. You are being sarcastic right?


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:47 | 1685820 spiral_eyes
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Another crucial aspect is that debt-funded stimulus parasitises the real job creators — entrepreneurs and small business — to give to big business.


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:18 | 1685994 WSP
WSP's picture

Precisely, but that is exactly what the elites want to do----completely eliminate small business because they cannot control small business.  The elites of New York want all money to flow through them, and they want a cut.   Just as the mob used to visit each local store to get their cut, the New York "mob" knows that by wiping out small businesses and eliminating any "local" investment opportunities, they get to control everything.  Their strategy is brilliant if you are a sociopath which of course we know they are.

Regarldess of how things turn out, small business is dead and won't come back.  The large conglomerates have successfully carried out their coup d'etat' on small businesses and the middle class and at this point all the population has to look forward to is the "scraps" that the banking oligarch and corporatists do not want to wipe their A$$ with.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:41 | 1686075 Toma Haja
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Free enterprise, capitalism, whatever one calls it, seeks positive economic returns.  Over time, companies buy out others to achieve economies of scale and/or greater market share.  Some companies fail.  Other companies start up.  Ease of entry and barriers to entry are key factors in a healthy economy and determine the level of competition and, to a large extent, the overall price levels.  As taxes and other costs of doing business rise; as capital is sucked up by the government; as more and more regulations burden the only productive sector of the economy in order to promote the non-productive sector, the small businessmen face greater and greater barriers to not only entering into business but maintaining their toehold in a shrinking economy. 

Small business is not dead, just choking in a very hostile environment.  We need to clean up the economic environment.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:50 | 1685839 flacon
flacon's picture


Must watch:




Systemic collapse is 100% certain and unavoidable.


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:53 | 1685873 Jumbotron
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Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:27 | 1686246 captcorona
captcorona's picture

I am not shocked, but that video seems a bit old. Anyone know when it's from?


Tue, 09/20/2011 - 04:38 | 1687868 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Only -14, I must be losing my touch.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:44 | 1685808 covert
covert's picture

the whole thing is simpler than it looks. atlas is shrugging and "we the people" are atlas.



Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:24 | 1686236 SWRichmond
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The paper The real effects of debt –(http://www.bis.org/publ/othp16.pdf) – by Cecchetti, Mohanty and Zampolli highlights that debt is supposed to improve the efficiency of capital allocation across its various possible uses in the economy by shifting the risk to those most able to bear it, but of course that very statement reinforces what I am saying; if debt is causing a better allocation of capital, then debt will fall, not rise, relative to GDP.

This is just another way of describing the marginal productivity of debt.  If borrowed capital is applied productively, then wealth will rise faster than debt. 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:38 | 1685781 kahunabear
kahunabear's picture

Risk on Babay! Greek can kicked, Bernanke and Co. will not disappoint and cause the market to fall.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:45 | 1685812 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Sorry dude market is recovering, no doomsday today!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:54 | 1685878 kahunabear
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Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:10 | 1685958 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

That's what everyone said the day before 9/11

the day before Katrina

the day before the Japan Quake and Fukashima

the day before Pompeii

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:38 | 1685782 Little John
Little John's picture

I don't want tp sound mean spirited but I hope j m keynes is in Hell - cleaning stalin's toilet.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:01 | 1685913 porrannor
porrannor's picture

Do you understand the concept of Gulag or purges or Lubianka? Heve you ever faced slow death by starvation? No? So, shut the hell up... There are some things that should not be disrespected and disrespecting those who lived through it or died by it is one of them.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:41 | 1686070 andybev01
andybev01's picture

...being Stalin's toilet.


Fixed that for ya.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:47 | 1686093 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

You know, just because we refer to it as "Keynesian", does not mean that Keynes would have approved.  I think Keynes would be amazed to see the policies being promoted in his name.


Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:51 | 1686254 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Keynesianism is embraced by politicians not because it is correct but because he told them what they wanted to hear: they have a right and an obligation to manage the economy and to spend spend spend to keep it going.  Imagine telling politicians they are smarter than the average person and that they should spend as much money as it takes; do you think a politician can come up with spending schemes that also just happen to get him or her re-elected?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:40 | 1685790 tempo
tempo's picture

IMO, there can always be an infinite supply of debt/money as long as the US/EU/China/India/Japan cooperate. Thats 80%+ of world GDP, the rich world families love it, the alternative is a depression/war and its all monopoly fake money anyway not backed by anything but giant military powers. Anyone who tries to stop this way of life will be shocked by the response. Literally!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:53 | 1685867 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

And yet TPTB do not bask in this confidence because it's not just about fiat, it's also about oil.  The world IOU holders fear being the first to cash an IOU, but are terrified of being the last to.  The Ponzi unravels and there is not a thing they can do about it.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:41 | 1685797 Soul Train
Soul Train's picture

Insane and elitists they are.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:41 | 1685798 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Mushroom Cloud ... biatchez

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:42 | 1685799 mayhem_korner
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T. Chong:  Hey man...how does he get (that debt) to fly?

Cheech M.: You know man, with the magic dust, man!  A little for the (debt)...a little for Santa Clause...a little more for Santa Clause...a little more for Santa Clause...

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:55 | 1685881 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

+1000 !

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:47 | 1685809 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Gee, who to listen to? Who has more credibility? Volcker or Bernank?; Volcker or Bernank?

Wow, I'm conflicted. One has a successful track record, and the other is a blithering, incompetent failure of an economist, prognosticator and human being.



A Little Inflation Can Be a Dangerous Thing - NYTimes.com


Published: September 18, 2011

IN all the commentary about Ben S. Bernanke’s recent speech in Jackson Hole, Wyo., little attention has been paid to six crucial words:


in a context of price stability.”


Those words concluded a discussion by Mr. Bernanke, the Federal Reserve chairman, of what tools the central bank could consider appropriate to promote a stronger economic recovery...

...What we know, or should know, from the past is that once inflation becomes anticipated and ingrained — as it eventually would — then the stimulating effects are lost. Once an independent central bank does not simply tolerate a low level of inflation as consistent with “stability,” but invokes inflation as a policy, it becomes very difficult to eliminate.


It is precisely the common experience with this inflation dynamic that has led central banks around the world to place prime importance on price stability. They do so not at the expense of a strong productive economy. They do it because experience confirms that price stability — and the expectation of that stability — is a key element in keeping interest rates low and sustaining a strong, expanding, fully employed economy.


At a time when foreign countries own trillions of our dollars, when we are dependent on borrowing still more abroad, and when the whole world counts on the dollar’s maintaining its purchasing power, taking on the risks of deliberately promoting inflation would be simply irresponsible.


It is that conviction that underlies Mr. Bernanke’s six words. Let’s not forget them.

President Obama has now set out new proposals to support economic growth. I hope he will be able to work with a responsible Congress to find the common ground that is urgently needed to deal with the economic challenges before us, restoring a healthy economy “in a context of price stability.” I also hope they will reach agreement early next year on a strong program to deal responsibly with our huge budget deficit over the years ahead.

*Paul A. Volcker was chairman of the Federal Reserve from 1979 to 1987.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:56 | 1685889 GottaBKiddn
GottaBKiddn's picture

Now you know why Volker was replaced.



Mon, 09/19/2011 - 23:08 | 1687279 ElTerco
ElTerco's picture

 Great comment.  Yes... he was way too competent to be chosen to work in a position of authority within our government.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:34 | 1686051 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Pardon this poor illiterate bastard, but is not Volcker supporting Bernanke?  Saying he is too responsible to unleash inflation (ahem), and thus will stop the printing?  No more stimulus?


That would be a pleasant surprise.  Maybe not to the market....

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 17:30 | 1686251 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Believe it or not, to Volcker that milqutoast editorial was fighting words.  He's criticising Bernanke:

"Once an independent central bank does not simply tolerate a low level of inflation as consistent with “stability,” but invokes inflation as a policy, it becomes very difficult to eliminate."

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 15:51 | 1685853 BruntFCA
BruntFCA's picture

Slight problem with all this. He assumes that in some ideal system GDP can always raise to meet the increased debt load - what he calls the "Systainable GDP".

However, in our debt based, compound interest based money system, this means that GDP must rise...*forever*. So there we have it continual exponential growth on a finite planet. What he proposes is simply less insane than the malivestment, centrally planned model we currently have, but still insane.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:05 | 1685916 Jumbotron
Jumbotron's picture

BruntFCA said......"Slight problem with all this. He assumes that in some ideal system GDP can always raise to meet the increased debt load - what he calls the "Systainable GDP".

However, in our debt based, compound interest based money system, this means that GDP must rise...*forever*. So there we have it continual exponential growth on a finite planet. What he proposes is simply less insane than the malivestment, centrally planned model we currently have, but still insane."

BINGO !!!!

Give that man an infinite supply of gold stars.

So...really after all the reasonable sounding language and the facts that are truly...facts...in the end Andy Lee is just slightly less insane than the other nutters running this asylum.

Another theorotician decrying the fact that the other theoroticians simply went to the logical extreme of debt based wealth creation.

What else would corruptable humans do with what seems like the discovery and perfection of financial based alchemy?

We can transmute base metals into gold.  Only you have to dispense with the gold and simply transmute faith in a sovereign entity into base metals.....and paper.

We are so cosmically screwed if it's a battle between these two camps.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 16:39 | 1686067 HoardeBilly
HoardeBilly's picture

Modern day alchemy:

Turning a lead fiatsco into gold in hand. 

Take advantage while this magic still works!

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