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Guest Post: Another Consequence Of Economic Decline

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

Another Consequence Of Economic Decline

Nearly 10-years ago to the day, the government of Argentina collapsed. Beset by weighty deficit spending and a completely unrealistic currency peg to the US dollar, Argentina became the poster child for the golden rule of economics: ‘that which is unsustainable will not be sustained.’ It’s reversion to the mean.

Within a matter of days, the country had burned through several presidents, the currency collapsed, inflation soared, unemployment shot up, crime rates spiked, and the government defaulted on its debt.

After limping along for most of the last decade with a socialist agenda, the government of Argentina is at it again. The economy is rapidly deteriorating, and street-inflation has surpassed 25%.

Naturally, the administration of President Cristina Fernandez insists that inflation is not a problem, despite the Argentine peso losing 25% of its value against the US dollar over the last three-years (and far more against gold).

Meanwhile, Fernandez has borrowed her plays from Atlas Shrugged. She’s imposed capital controls, raided pension funds, nationalized private property, and taken control of the media… all in a vain attempt to delay the endgame.

A few weeks ago, the government passed a package of new laws, essentially criminalizing public protest under the auspices of combating terrorism. The legislation, snuck in at a midnight session during the holiday period, provides severe punishment for various crimes under a very broad definition of terrorism.

Fernandez herself maintains that the law would -never- be invoked to restrict the legitimate rights of Argentines. This, from a woman who simultaneously passed legislation to seize control of the country’s newspaper industry.

In her latest move, Fernandez has stepped up her saber-rattling over the Falkland Islands, a nearby archipelago that has been a British territory since 1833 (it is now self-governing). You may remember that Argentina invaded the Falklands in 1982 and was subsequently defeated after a bloody conflict with Britain.

It’s a sore subject in Argentina; the government still claims sovereignty over the Falklands (known as Las Malvinas in Argentina), and Fernandez is waving the flag once again.

Last month Argentine naval forces were sent to frustrate commercial fishing around the disputed territory. And in the most recent development, Argentina, Brazil, and Uruguay announced that they were closing their seaports to any ship flying a Falklands flag (all 25 of them…)

Argentina has also mounted pressure on the British government to reopen negotiations over the Falklands’ sovereignty. Thus far, the Brits have refused.

Cristina Fernandez’s BFF Hugo Chavez recently added to tensions by saying, “The English are still threatening Argentina. Things have changed. We are no longer in 1982. If conflict breaks out, be certain Argentina will not be alone, as it was back then.”

At this point, it’s all just tough talk and petty annoyances. But here’s the thing– there are four billion barrels of oil estimated to be within the Falklands’ territorial waters.

Given the utter insanity with which Fernandez governs her country and the desperation in the Argentine economy, one cannot rule out the possibility of her trying to grab Las Malvinas by force. After all, military conflict is the ultimate social distraction.

I’ve often written that economics drives everything. A solid, vibrant, competitive economy lifts an entire nation into prosperity, while deteriorating fundamentals and a socialist agenda create inflation, unemployment, and social turmoil.

War is just another one of those consequences. And given the vast deterioration in the global economy coupled with deeply-seeded conflicts around the world, the Falklands is just one of many that we may have to look forward to in 2012.


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Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:40 | 2051585 fightthepower
fightthepower's picture

Gold Bitches! 

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:46 | 2051597 Popo
Popo's picture

Well,  at least Argentina has hot chicks.


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:55 | 2051627 economics1996
economics1996's picture

The United States federal government spends 25.3% of the GDP and collects 14.4% in taxes.  We finance 10.9% of our economy through debt, at the federal level.  This does not include state, local, and private debt.  Sound like Argentina?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:07 | 2051908 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

A good assesment of the US economy

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:38 | 2052020 economics1996
economics1996's picture

If the asshole pos in the WH would get his dick out of Americas ass we might be able to work for a fucking living.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:06 | 2052770 robobbob
robobbob's picture

Unlike that third world place, our investments in MIC have paid off beyond calculation.

We went into debt, but leveraged it up enough to buy off most of the world.

at least for now.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:30 | 2051991 Aquiloaster
Aquiloaster's picture

For work, I have been back and forth to Argentina for over three years now. I am in Argentina for a year. The previous times I was here for 7 weeks a pop. I leave it to the readers of ZH to extrapolate what my experiences mean, but here they are:

1. The exchange rate has remained remarkably constant, hovering between 4 and 5. It has been 4.25 on two of the three occassions I have been here.

2. The cost of living here, in dollars (as I calculate my expenses when I get home) has gone up each time. Now, my apartment in a northern Argentine provincial captial costs about 60% as much in dollars as my aparment in the Philly metro area for the same number of bedrooms etc., but food is currently costing about 110% of what it did in the eastern US.

3. I have been here now for two months, and have not seen a significant change in the costs of food or essentials --specifically beef--the end all and be all of staples here.

Conclusion: Either this article is bunk/fairly ill-informed, or the US has a similar inflation rate right now. Or something else fishy. Probably the latter. Can someone analyze?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 20:40 | 2052451 economics1996
economics1996's picture

From a economic perspective the food going past 110% is a red flag.  When inflation hits inelastic items, food (-.2%), energy (-0.06%), go up very rapidly.  Housing (-0.6 to 1.2%) is inelastic but more elastic than food and energy and would climb in price at a slower pace, but not for long. 

If I were you I would be watching the food items, get my money the hell out of there ASAP, and be ready for a rought ride.  Get your lease extended ASAP if you plan on staying there and buy capital purchases NOW.  Automobiles, anything durable.

The most important thing is to have your money out of there and all your capital purchases completed ASAP.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:35 | 2052645 Gromit
Gromit's picture

Argentina has a dark, dirty secret. They have repudiated Western bankers and their people have prospered. At all costs this truth must not filter through to the other debtor nations so consistent nonsense, "basket case" , "runaway inflation", government by edict" etc etc must be force fed by compliant media. Even the F'ing Economist magazine for Fs sake!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:06 | 2052767 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Exactly. The moneyed dicks will never forgive us argies for the default Greece should be doing right now.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 05:31 | 2053720 Oliver Jones
Oliver Jones's picture

Would this be the same Economist that, in 2011, described protectionism as "impoverishing developing nations"?

The Beano has more credibility.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 00:19 | 2053325 trav7777
trav7777's picture

have noted similar trends in other south american countries.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:15 | 2052108 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

But they only give you a glance from under their sunglasses when you just about passed...

And if you do manage to get one, you will have to meet her friends and familiy and pretend

you`ve know each other for ages... comparable chicks of Italian descent are much more of a bargain in Aussi or the US..

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:28 | 2052866 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

They sure do, I lived there for close to 5 years.  But I thank the poster in commenting about this, I totally forgot about Argentina.  I remember Kirchner taking the Pensions but didn't consider that Argentina was going into a default like they had 10 years ago.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:06 | 2051677 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

Orange juice bitchez -

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:19 | 2051734 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

@ fightthepower,

Guns Bitches!!!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:29 | 2052160 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

Interesting, that the Falklands are mentioned, as the Duke of Cambridge -- the future King, Prince William -- is being posted, long ith his RAF unit, to this disputed archipelago in February.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 02:06 | 2053560 philipat
philipat's picture

Sounds just like NDAA. Do they compare notes?

The Falklands diversion is also directly analogous to Iran/Pakistan. Create a false diversion and get everyone to get all wrapped up in the flag. Pathetic really, not that they do it but that the sheeple still fall for it every time. Argentina OR the US.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:42 | 2051588 Kastorsky
Kastorsky's picture

Fukushima was not an accident.


Man behind the story was arrested and held without charge.


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:45 | 2051594 sabra1
sabra1's picture

right on! check out how many reactors are built on fault lines! by the way, i used to love that show Columbo, with that dude, Peter Falkland!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:11 | 2051698 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

i used to love that show Columbo, with that dude, Peter Falkland!

I've always wanted a Guy Falklands Mask


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 00:24 | 2053345 trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh??  Japan is a faultline.  Faults are everywhere.

Please don't tell me you believe they built it there knowing that a quake was inevitable within the next 50,000 years and would kill lots of people.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:59 | 2051650 seek
seek's picture

I'm willing to respect quite a few conspiracy theories, but that one is flat-out looney-toons. It wasn't an accident, alright -- but the cause was a design so crappy one of the engineers resigned, citing a failure mode identical to what happened.  Yet the author of this theory dismisses out of hand that there were any engineering flaws as "The designers of the plant most certainly took all such cases into consideration." A designer did, recognized the design as flawed, and things progressed anyway.

Earthquake magnitues are easily verifiable by virtually any univerity seismology department on the planet, and the theory is arguing the the actual quake 10,000 weaker than stated.

Sorry, doesn't fly. Junk theory. There's a real conspiracy here, alright, but it's TEP and GE covering up a bad design and bad decisionmaking in the name of profit, not some whacked earthquake-didn't-happen, let's cause an intentional meltdown theory.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:44 | 2051823 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

When you purposely build something that's accident-prone, and you put it in a place where accidents are likely to happen, and then an accident happens, and the thing breaks just as smart people expected it would (even though those smart people were "somehow ignored")... well, I guess it's either a really amazing coincidence, or its a conspiracy.

You wacky "Coincidence theorists" drive me nuts.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:56 | 2051872 Evil Bugeyes
Evil Bugeyes's picture

Little known fact: Chernobyl and Fukushima were actually built by closet anti-nuclear activists in a deliberate attempt to discredit nuclear power.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 00:25 | 2053347 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you seem unable to grasp "specific intent"

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:03 | 2051887 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

All conspiracy theories conveniently ignore the messiness factor of life: mistakes, bonehead stupid decisions, beyond-belief-dumb-as-turnips people, poor timing, poor choice of words, disorganization, fucked up things happening at the worst possible moment, Murphy's Law, bad weather, perfect storms, lousy mainteneance, blatant negligence, ignored warnings, running red lights, and the fact that some people go a little crazy some times

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 00:27 | 2053356 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I have to ask:  do any of you people have jobs where you have to interact with other people?  Do you not DAILY see this phenomenon in play where groups of people, individually smart enough to do something not stupid, end up doing something VERY stupid while the whole entire group goes along with it?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 05:56 | 2053735 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

should be bullish for conspiracy theory sales

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:43 | 2051590 BigMike
BigMike's picture

I wish I had a alt-energy powered commune in Chile so I didn't have to worry about this shit all the time.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:25 | 2051755 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Chile has some big faults...why not Honduras or Costa Rica?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:31 | 2051769 kito
kito's picture

HA!!! nice...............

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:47 | 2051596 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

OT but can someone please tell me, why is there VAT on Silver in Europe?

Any way to avoid it?



Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:09 | 2051696 Saro
Saro's picture

Any way to avoid it?


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:13 | 2051709 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture


No way Im moving to Chile! I just invested my cash in the 4th Pillar!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:04 | 2052086 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

if you,re not a US citizen buy ZSIL or JBSIUA at the SWX, it represents physical silver in the nominal amount of 1000 ounces. you only get charged VAT when you demand it physically. Hence you still have governmental risk in a feuderalistic democracy. else pay the 8% VAT and regard it as an insurance premium against the gov risk

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:07 | 2052097 Lets Hang Parliament
Lets Hang Parliament's picture


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 20:37 | 2052448 smiler03
smiler03's picture

I'll get junked for this but you could try an ETF, VAT free




Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:18 | 2051730 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

Coins are for investing or saving and vat free. Bars are for industrial use, according to governments so with vat.

Avoid it? Coin bars from Andorra for example.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:44 | 2051826 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



debtor of last ...

Coins are for investing or saving and vat free. Bars are for industrial use, according to governments so with vat.

Avoid it? Coin bars from Andorra for example.

As well maybe buy directly from the Perth or Cnadian Mint? will that get around the Tax?

Nice little shop you posted as well. it is interesting (to me) to see what the rest of the World is looking at..

how about the 5 X 9's Maple? maybe a few for the novelty of it?

I tend to see the extra silver / cooper in my Liberty (U.S.) Crowns Coinage as free extra metal.

Once again! Thanks for sharing differnet and interesting!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:53 | 2051860 Cast Iron Skillet
Cast Iron Skillet's picture

nicht ganz. In Germany you pay a reduced 7% vat rate on silver coins and the full 19% rate on silver bars, while gold coins and bars are vat free. go figure.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:38 | 2052014 css1971
css1971's picture

One of the reasons I don't buy physical silver.  Add the volatility, correlation with the stock market and bulk.

In the UK not only is gold VAT free, but "Sterling" coins (Sovereigns, Britannias) are also capital gains tax free.


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:46 | 2051829 doggings
doggings's picture


OT but can someone please tell me, why is there VAT on Silver in Europe?

Any way to avoid it?


buy it here at spot price and no vat

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:48 | 2051601 Irish66
Irish66's picture

The legislation, snuck in at a midnight session during the holiday period, provides severe punishment for various crimes under a very broad definition of terrorism.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:59 | 2051645 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Is he writing about the U.S.?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:01 | 2051654 Irish66
Irish66's picture

I wonder how many other countries did this recently?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:04 | 2051665 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

My guess is that there are plenty of countries following our lead.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:05 | 2051675 Irish66
Irish66's picture

martial law?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:08 | 2051691 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

They are setting us up for it.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:11 | 2051701 Irish66
Irish66's picture

I'm gonna do a little research to see if I can find out how many countries did this.

Any help would be appreciated.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:22 | 2051745 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture

Yes........appears we are well on our way.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:51 | 2051616 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Anyone ready for a shocker?

Go to Yahoo Finance under "World Indexes" and pull up a chart of the Merval since 2002.

One of the biggest index gains ever recorded for a Banana Republic.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:54 | 2051629 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Great! Now all we need is to invent a Time Machine to go back to 2002 and invest in that and we will all be millionaires!

Thanks for the tip!!!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:34 | 2051785 kito
kito's picture

robo is just so darned good at hindsight investment........

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:33 | 2052880 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Wait til robo gets a look at the Harare index during the Zim dollar collapse. Apparently he can't get his head around the concept that stock prices inflate along with everything else.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:41 | 2051804 Au_Ag_CuPbCu
Au_Ag_CuPbCu's picture

+1 What would we do without the nuggets of wisdom comming from RearVewTrader?  He truly is the Oracle of the Bygone.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:03 | 2051659 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Sorry, you lost me at "go to Yahoo Finance".

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:08 | 2051690 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Well, that was the shocker!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:51 | 2051618 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Praise the Lord and pass the bullets."

Inspirational poster coming real soon to an American street corner near you.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 20:13 | 2052351 Strelok
Strelok's picture


Ok, what's my prize?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:53 | 2051625 youngman
youngman's picture

She just had an operation..possible cancer....maybe they removed her brain...yes Socialists are winning...all over the world...are the schools teaching this....what a sucess.........


When do you think our Socialist will ask for his 1.2 trillion more in the debt limit....during the day...or late at night on some Holiday...and will the MSM report on it...after all its all Bush´s fault

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:16 | 2051719 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

"are the schools teaching this"


The Secret History of Western Education & Scientific Destruction of Minds -

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:53 | 2051856 youngman
youngman's picture

I actually meant are the schools teaching the failure of Socialism.......NOT....but yes you are right they are teaching that Socialism is great...just look at all the current examples.....oops..better not...its all Bush´s fault..

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:08 | 2051917 Seer
Seer's picture

I'm assuming that stating that "socialism" is winning then that would mean what? "capitalism" is losing?  If "capitalism" is losing then clearly it's not a better system, is it?  For fuck's sake, BAD systems NEVER win in the end.  Quit whining and get to work making YOUR pet/favorite system work!

BTW - I hold that it's fascism that's in command.  At the very least, ALL systems have a penchant for totalitarianism, that's what happens when power consolidates (and, unless someone can show me how this is NOT the aim and underlying function of their pet/favorite system, well...).

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:10 | 2052783 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

If socialists were winning, the TBTF banks would be no more. What you're talking about is a plutocracy, or kleptocracy: socialism for the rich, capitalism for the poor. Obomba a socialist? Don't make my ass laugh...

BTW: The news today is that the cancer wasn't cancer at all and they removed her thyroids by accident? Something's really fishy there.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 07:15 | 2053789 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Thyroids, isn't that somewhere in front of yer Cerebellum?

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 16:35 | 2055858 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Haha! Probably they did that to her long ago. In fact I believe most Argie presidents had a lobotomy before coming to power. But no, thyroids I meant these:

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:58 | 2051641 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Uploaded by on Dec 8, 2011
Warning that "American democracy in endangered," Sen. Bernie Sanders on Thursday proposed a constitutional amendment to overturn a Supreme Court ruling that allowed unrestricted and secret campaign spending by corporations on U.S. elections. The first constitutional amendment ever proposed by Sanders during his two decades in Congress would reverse the narrow 5-to-4 ruling in Citizens United vs. the Federal Elections Commission.

Another Consequence Of The Economic Stimulas of the Lobby Whores in Washington DC!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:01 | 2051653 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



JP Morgan has so Many Names to Lobby with They can give the legal limit in each name! JP Morgan DOES Lobby The MAX thru ALL their different Companies! Because all those different Corporations are People! And have 1st Amendment Rights!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:03 | 2051658 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



here are some of the names.. not Hidden! from View!!

Affiliate of Heavy Hitter(7 results)

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:02 | 2051656 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Maybe Bernie should learn a thing or two about the other amendments before suggesting more. Primarily the second amendment.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:09 | 2051694 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



how about INSTEAD of bashin anyone or everyone for the things we dont like..

How about we support them.. when what they are pushing is GOOD for AMERICA!

I understand that since Obama is President.. that the Whole Country should suffer until some fucking repugnant gets elected..

it really is no wonder why 48+% of American's are recieving Government Assistance of some kind, American's.. Poor American's are busy trying to fuck each other over for any little thing they can.

Families were more dependent on government programs than ever last year.

Nearly half, 48.5%, of the population lived in a household that received some type of government benefit in the first quarter of 2010, according to Census data. Those numbers have risen since the middle of the recession when 44.4% lived households receiving benefits in the third quarter of 2008.


I am PRO Gun as anyone you have ever heard of.. let alone met.. but what the FUCK does that have to do with NOT! treating Corporations like people with 1st amendment rights?

You and everyone else better figure out a way to start fighting together.. becuase if not.. ALL of YOUR Rights will be sold off to the highest bidder.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:15 | 2051715 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

It has everything to do with it. If Bernie can't respect the other amendments why would he respect his own? I can not and won't support a hypocrite that doesn't support the constitution as a whole.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:22 | 2051744 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Please explain how you see Bernie's amendment conflicting or underminding the constitution?  

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:32 | 2051777 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Because to a guy like Bernie the constitution gets in the way of things he would like to do , such as disarm the American populous etc. But it is a convienient tool for those things he would like to get done. If he wants to utilize the constitution he should accept those things he agrees with and those he doesn't . If he can blatantly disregard an amendment simply because it goes against his ideology then what is to hold him to defend any other amendment ?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:00 | 2051880 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

it was paul and sanders that exposed the frb through the 2yr wait 'foia' --- if not for their heroic, and unyielding persistence,... we'd still be in the dark 

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:06 | 2051906 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The difference between Paul and Sanders is that Paul respects the constitution. It's not a convenient tool.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:17 | 2052123 323
323's picture

Bernie supports the second amendment, FWIW

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 20:03 | 2052296 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Bullshit. His voting record speeds for itself. He scores an F according to his record. I prefere to judge people by their actions not their words.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:25 | 2052846 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"how about INSTEAD of bashin anyone or everyone for the things we dont like..

How about we just call them fucking repugnants"

Take your lithium and go back to bed.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:17 | 2051727 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. . . . corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."

-- U.S. President Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
(letter to Col. William F. Elkins)
Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:20 | 2051738 Irish66
Irish66's picture

That made the hairs on my neck tingle

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:47 | 2051840 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



God Bless Abe and God Bless You Sir for posting Abe!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:07 | 2052094 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Read my post below.  You'd damn Abe to hell if you knew the truth and had the power.  Talk about historical rose colored glasses.  If you read the history you'd wonder how he avoided assassination as long as he did.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:23 | 2052069 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Abe Lincoln was a tyrant of the worst kind and murderer. He only left conveniently pretty quotes behind to fool you. The myth of Lincoln is far greater than the man. He imprisoned northern civilians without trial, attacked the media and his political opponents, put into power a strong central government. He violently and eggregiously violated the constitution at every opportunity.  "Honest" Abe supported the constitution by:

  • imprisoning thousands of northern citizens without trial
  • suspended habeas corpus
  • launched a military invasion without the approval of congress and senate
  • censored all telegraph communications
  • Used federal troops to interfere with elections
  • confiscated firearms
  • deported an opposition member of congress
  • nationalized the railroads
  • premeditatively and specifically targeted and murdered civilians, women and children (abandoning international law and the new geneva conventions)

He didn't give a damn about civil rights, freedom or the people, least of all the constitution.  Fuck Lincoln, let him rot.

The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these [new] territories.  We want them for the homes of free white people. - Abraham Lincoln October 16, 1854

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:12 | 2051927 Seer
Seer's picture

Money is free speech, don't ya know...  Maybe all those robe'd ones were singing "money talks and BS walks" in the back room?

Resources are getting scarce.  Natives are getting restless.  Something's in the air.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 16:59 | 2051651 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Fenandez was Bush's BFF as well, so the civil liberties eroding is not suprising.

This is what happens when a country is run by religious nuts.  Which is about 99% of them.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:29 | 2052868 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

Argentina is run by religious nuts? Put down the crack pipe, Mr. Head Cheese.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:03 | 2051660 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Savy Argetines measure their wealth in llamas.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:53 | 2051859 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

as do savvy herders in the n.e., eg. vt, me, nh, etc., etc.,


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:53 | 2051998 xela2200
xela2200's picture

I know that you are kidding, but Argentina has some of the most productive land in the planet and it is Cheeeeaaap. Also, Bariloche is one of the most beautiful places in this planet. Leave to escaped Nazis to make an A+ skiing resort.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:12 | 2052793 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

No worse. Savvy argies measure their wealth in US dollars... oh the humanity, are we stupid or what?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:09 | 2051670 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Nice article by Simon Black. At first, I thought he was going to suggest we all move there. Maybe he is coming to his senses. Then again, Argentina is mostly Caucasian and Simon seems to hate Caucasian people.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:09 | 2051693 mh505
mh505's picture

What nonsense.  Apart from inflation - which however is still not out of control and is nowhere near to what the US may experience rather sooner than later - Argentina is doing pretty well; rather better as a matter of fact than the much touted Brazilian "success" (see f.i. here:,1518,804856,00.html; and here:

How did they achieve this?  By doing the exact opposite than what the IMF and associated banksters wanted them to do.  One caveat: they did pay off more of their debt than was warranted under the odious debt concept.

On the other hand it is true that Kirchner is going off on a somewhat authoritarian tangent but still nothing comparable to Obama's America where everybody - no matter who where or why - can be shot on a simple executive order.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:14 | 2051713 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



The order doesn’t have to be an executive order.. the executive order and law (patriot act + NDAA) give / gave the Military the right to kill us protesters for being terrorists!

the White House has plausible deniability! For what the Military does for the White House!

It is more of the same.. Fuck You! Fuck Me!! Fuck WE!!! While they get rich and more powerful!


Wed, 01/11/2012 - 19:01 | 2056443 mh505
mh505's picture

Right. So let's concentrate on the US befgore bashing Kirchner's mini dictatorship ...

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:14 | 2052804 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

You're talking truth there my mate. Check your back, you're life's in danger now.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:15 | 2051716 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Cry for yourself Argentina. Will you never learn? If you want Falklands oil, why not negotiate a Joint Venture and drill together? It would be a lot cheaper for the oil companies to base their operations out of Argentina than anywhere else. If you want fishing rights, why not negotiate - perhaps you pay to upgrade the islands ports infrastructure in return for being able to fish? If you have a few thousand idiots who want nothing more than to go live on a rock in the middle of the South Atlantic, why not lease them some land ( er - rock) from the Brits and give them free one-way passage?

Do you actually think (not you the Argentinian people, but you, the demented bitch at the top) that you can successfully go to war against the UK? Oh, so Hugo is going to help you? Guess who will be helping the UK. The US is just aching for an excuse to invade Venezuela and sieze the oil. And we have our own demented bitch at the top who would do so in a heartbeat.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:24 | 2051973 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Negotiate a Joint Venture? You might want to spend some time in Argentina. I recommend puerto madero in Buenos Aires eating a churrasco. England and Argentina are the countries with the biggest egos in the planet.

oh and BTW. There is no need to invade Venezuela. Just give Colombia the go ahead, and they will send 250,000 well seasoned soldiers down the border. Venezuela and Ecuador get a lot of "protection" money from Colombia's drug lords.


Yeap, the world is a big garbage dump full of rats that want each others' rotten food.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 20:09 | 2052336 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Hi xela2200 - couldn't agree more. I have spent time in Argentina and agree with your observations (although I would include some other countries in your biggest ego list - quite a few actually). My suggestions were not quite sarc/ - more tongue in cheek. Not to be taken seriously in other words. But if only egos weren't in the way ...

Hey - silly me. They always are, aren't they.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:16 | 2051718 pslater
pslater's picture

As I read some time ago, the last Socialist/Communist on the planet will eventually die in South America.  Nothing new here.  Move on.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:18 | 2051729 Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

This is what the system has devolved into I’m sorry to say.

“It’s not the people who vote that count. It’s the people who count the votes.”

-Josef Stalin

And the most of the Press just goes along spinning and pretending nothings wrong.


George Carlin: Forget the politicians…

The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice … you don’t.

You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear.

They got you by the balls.

They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying … lobbying, to get what they want … Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want … they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking.

They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that … that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin’ years ago. They don’t want that.

 You know what they want? They want obedient workers … Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin’ retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it … they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin’ place.

 It’s a big club and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in The big club.



Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:13 | 2051930 margaris
margaris's picture


I watched the george carlin speech so many times, I was able to hear his exact voice in my mind while reading your post.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:51 | 2052059 Chupacabra-322
Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:14 | 2051937 Freegold
Freegold's picture

George Carlin RIP, you always told the truth

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:19 | 2051731 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

The big one won't hit until the world is completely full of idiots, and at that point, no one will even understand Austrian/Keynesian economics to fight it.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:22 | 2051743 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Meanwhile, Fernandez has borrowed her plays from Atlas Shrugged."

Ah, a Rand ideologue.  So no wonder the author fails to mention that the 2001 collapse was largely the result of the pure greed of private bankers as laid out by Perkins in Confessions of an Economic Hitman.   

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:04 | 2051899 thepsilocircus
thepsilocircus's picture

So, you propose that the issue was lax enforcement of regulation?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:16 | 2051948 Seer
Seer's picture

It's always about greed and corruption.

Yeah, like this is something new...

How Wall Street Turned a Crisis Into a Cartel

[and published at, of all places, Bloomberg!]

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:48 | 2052047 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"So, you propose that the issue was lax enforcement of regulation?"

No, I propose that the issues are extremely complex and the problems cannot solved by simple answers such as those proposed by the Ayn Rands of the world.  Rand was a narcissist who spent her life developing a world view that justified her complete lack of empathy for her fellow humans.  Her followers tend to be likewise self-absorbed and they tend to gravitate towards Rand because she justified and indeed glorified their own self-devoted worldview.  It's nice when someone tells you that your most selfish desire would actually benefit everyone else.  It's largely the same reason people who listen to Limbaugh listen to Limbaugh.  Rand's philosophies if put in practice would be the end of the middle class and a return to feudalism.  

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:15 | 2052117 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Right on.

If every solution you can dream up is *simple*, you're probably not very bright.  Complex problems don't often have simple solutions.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 20:37 | 2052446 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

Complex problems are usually created by complex solutions.

The Constitution is amazingly simple and rather close to perfect.  Been ruined through legislative and judicial complications.


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:06 | 2052534 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Did you read the Constitution?  It created the legislative and the judicial branches that you bemoan as "complications."  If you did read it, then perhaps you should read it again.  It's not quite as simple as it appears at first blush.  Put 10 brilliant people in a room, and you will get 10 different answers about the meaning of almost any passage, regardless of politics.   

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 01:15 | 2053491 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It got us here, which is relatively pretty good.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:22 | 2051748 debtor of last ...
debtor of last resort's picture

And yes, not only in Greece they are good in avoiding taxes.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 17:51 | 2051850 Pancho Villa
Pancho Villa's picture

British need to watch out. If Spain collapses, they may start demanding Gibraltar back as a distraction from their economic problems.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:04 | 2051896 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

"A few weeks ago, the government passed a package of new laws, essentially criminalizing public protest under the auspices of combating terrorism. The legislation, snuck in at a midnight session during the holiday period, provides severe punishment for various crimes under a very broad definition of terrorism."


Damn, this sounds familiar.  Where have I heard this befo---oh yeah, NDAA 2012.

America, Argentina is our future.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:10 | 2051920 Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

Argentina had it pretty good after its collapse, and it's been pointed out that the MSM carefully avoids reporting on that aspect. Remind us what wars Iceland is involved in?

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:12 | 2051928 xela2200
xela2200's picture

US Department of State asked the embassy in Argentina to investigate mental health of Argentina President Cristina Fernandez, according to diplomatic document leaked Monday in Wikileaks

These are the crazy leaders that people elect.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:13 | 2051932 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Argentina has zero probability of taking over the Falklands.  The British have nuclear subs. 

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 22:19 | 2052821 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

But we have a navy full of 50+ y/o ships ready to terrorize the Empire with our own ships sinking. It's time to spend a couple billions of US taxpayer to give the British more US made weapons to attack our great and invinsible army, for freedom, liberty and the queen's ass on a stool.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:13 | 2051933 Peacefundamentalism
Peacefundamentalism's picture

OT but can someone please tell me, why is there VAT on Silver in Europe?

Any way to avoid it?



Buy it here   

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:18 | 2051957 Seer
Seer's picture

the golden rule of economics: ‘that which is unsustainable will not be sustained.’

Somebody FINALLY got close to the REAL issue!  Let's now take this and run with it, let's DEFINE what's economically sustainable!

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:28 | 2052154 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

If I can dig holes at the same pace that you can fill them in, then the hole digging and hole filling industries can simultaneously exist in perpetuity.

Economics is simply the science of denying people the right to pursue their own self interests. 


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:35 | 2052007 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture




"there are four billion barrels of oil estimated to be within the Falklands’ territorial waters."

Exploratory drilling to date has found ZERO producible oil, the latest attempt in just the past 12 mos.


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:53 | 2052060 SgtShaftoe
SgtShaftoe's picture

Argentina used to be cheap.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 18:59 | 2052077 binky
binky's picture

I remember watching World News Tonight back when this was going on the first time. The anchor that night warned the following segment contained graphic images. I was left with an indelible image (in my decaying, feeble mind) after viewing a short video clip of a horse-drawn cart being attacked by a small, not-so-friendly mob. The horse was hacked apart, (alive) and one of the members (of the not-so-friendly mob) had it's left rear leg on his shoulder as he ran away.  

When that level of violence becomes commonplace here, I will be truly amazed if things go as smoothly as they did for Argentina 10 years ago.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:01 | 2052081 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Britain can't afford jets for the new aircraft carrier (a carrier of aircraft, get it?)... a brilliant/pitiful example of Westminsters totally inept planning and (political) ambitions exceeding their wage grade

Being all out of (other peoples) money the British Govt then 'partnered' with the Frogs to 'craft' their aircraft-less carrier with French fighters. Awesome... except it was only a matter of months Sarkozy all-out blanked the British PM at the crumbling EU. One can only imagine how long the French jets and British carrier remains in harmony after a few weeks at sea!!

And with 2 expensive illegal wars unravelling in failure as a result of being the Yanks miguided lapdog Poodle the last thing bankrupt Britain needs is a conflict 2,000 miles away ..although we should never underestimate the British Govts delusional diplomacy and military planning

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:01 | 2052529 smiler03
smiler03's picture

I agree with most of what you say but note that these carriers were ordered by the Labour Party, the bankruptors of the UK. The current government would have cancelled them if they could but it was too late.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:04 | 2052087 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Wow. What a nightmare. One coming to the US im afraid.  I hope the hell everyone is able to hold onto their guns it's the only way out.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:33 | 2052177 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Replace: Argentina with US; Falklands with Iran; and Fernandez with Clinton/Obama.


Tue, 01/10/2012 - 19:51 | 2052259 Questan1913
Questan1913's picture

Economic decline has always been a descendant of moral decline.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 21:59 | 2052736 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Oh Simon, you don't know shit. As an Argentine myself, I have to agree with many of the things you say about Cristina, or "La Crista" as I prefer calling her. But so much you're writing is full of shit. Let me recap:

"A few weeks ago, the government passed a package of new laws, essentially criminalizing public protest under the auspices of combating terrorism."

The terrorism law is kinda different. It aims towards "financial terrorism" as playing a part on a run on the banks and stuff. It's not the best of laws, I have to admit. Even though there's real financial terrorism, this law doesn't help much. And as for criminalizing protests, we'be been having DAILY PROTESTS from various groups since 2001. It never stopped. It isn't as heavy as it was, but still is. It's just impossible to criminalize it, specially because Crista would end up destroying her base.

"This, from a woman who simultaneously passed legislation to seize control of the country’s newspaper industry."

The "Ley de medios" was not like that. It was a jab at the jaw of Grupo Clarín, specifically. But it diversified something that was very much a monopoly (it's not in full effect yet though). And if you mean the "Papel Prensa" affair, well, I understand that making it public, specially under Crista, is dangerous (I still remember her acolytes blocking the distribution of Diario Clarín once or twice). But at the same time, it was a company seized by the military Junta and then sold off to the biggest moneyed dicks in the country, those behind Grupo Clarín (her owner and her 2 adpotive children - children born out of Desaparecidos from the last military dictatorship); and it was controlled by both those corporations.

"In her latest move, Fernandez has stepped up her saber-rattling over the Falkland Islands, a nearby archipelago that has been a British territory since 1833 (it is now self-governing)."

Saber rattling my balls. I know not one Argie who would support going to war with anyone, specially with the British. Not again. People hate the military here and they know the last war was a ruse by Galtieri to save his ass (which didn't work). At the same time, I'd beg of you to drop the colonialist hat and remember that the first occupation of the Malvinas was by Argentinians, which were then expelled BY THE US NAVY, and the islands were then occupied by the British. I'd support them Kelpers living there as an independent nation. After all, they've been working that land and I doubt many argies would like to go live there (those islands suck). But the kelpers are not an independent nation. They're subrogates for the British Crown. And don't forget that the islands are on Argentina's submarine platform, which by the 3rd convention of the law of the sea, means it's rightfully Argentinian territory. If they want to extract oil, they better become an independent nation, or just don't do it. Because it wouldn't be much different from what Israel does with the Palestinians (albeit to a much lesser extent): stealing the resources that are not rightfully theirs. Argentina's navy is a bunch of cracked up ships that just don't work that good. There's nothing to fear there. Or is there, you know, fear, that political recipe which the US and the UK have been using so much... Fear of Evil Crista and her Navy of buccanneers terrorizing those good British citizens... don't make my ass laugh, please...

Yep, Crista governs crazy. But De la Rúa did too. And let's not start with Me*em (that name cannot be spoken or written fully, it'll just jinx you, ask Scioli), he was the crazies motherfucking president we've had in a long time...

And if you want to talk about leaders governing in a crazy way, well, you've got a good cast right there within the US and the UK. And damn, the shit they do has consequences around the globe which Crista would never even dream of.

I have to love how these so called liberty lovers (yeah, I mean you Simon) end up showing their true colours. Fascism. Love for Piñera brothers, love for a government hands off approach which lets corporations do whatever they want. And hate for anything they seem to think is "socialism" (ooohhh, scaaary), when it's many times actually the government fighting against the moneyed interests. Because like it or not, mess or crazy or not, Crista and her late hubby did a lot in that front. And many many argies are grateful for that.

Even though I have to admit that we're going towards another big crash. But well, that's nothing new to us. Argentina has a big crash or collapse every 10-15 years. It's the Argentinian cycle. I've already lived through hyperinflation (where prices jumped manyfold within the same day). Also lived the fall of De la Rúas government. And here we still are.

You should rather worry about those gorilla (find out what Argies mean with Gorilla)  hairs popping up your shirt. Because when the shit hits the fan, you might have an angry mob of Chileans on the doors of that territory you think yours because you put money down. When push comes to shove, governments will have to side with the people. And considering what you write here and there, the people won't be happy with a crazy foreigner like yourself reaping the fruit off their land.

A little social aimed policy by the government ain't bad. Specially in these times when the private moneyed interests own everything in your "first world". How many yankees would dance on the streets if Obomba would just break down the insolvent parasitic banks? Oh I know, too socialist to you I guess.

Christ had it right all the time (even though I'm not a Christian). It'll be easier to pass a camel through the eye of a needle, than someone like you entering heaven.

Tue, 01/10/2012 - 23:48 | 2053181 Modernist
Modernist's picture

The cliche of Israelis robbing Palestinians is itself a forgery of intellectual capital.  Two references to Jews in one comment.  That's just lazy.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 07:55 | 2053824 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Well, I guess that taking water sources and land is a forgery then...

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 09:21 | 2053949 Sheikh Dani
Sheikh Dani's picture

Totally agree. Good to know there's another Argentine reading ZH.

Wed, 01/11/2012 - 04:14 | 2053679 koolkurkle
koolkurkle's picture

Argentina will find it much easier to implement their "anti-terrorist" measures thanks to technology.

Biometrics in Argentina: Mass Surveillance as a State Policy
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