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Another Lawsuit Filed Against JP Morgan For Silver Price Manipulation

Tyler Durden's picture


It has been a while since JP Morgan has been sued for silver manipulation. Well, that changed on September 12, after JPM was served with its most recent lawsuit alleging silver manipulation, which we have no doubt will promptly move from JPM's Inbox straight to the trash can. Since this is a class action, virtually everyone who has ever traded silver and lost on the trade appears to be on the list of plaintiffs (we jest, although the list of impaired parties a through x is rather, well, dillutive of the purpose). It is unfortunate that the John Doe defendants are not named as the general media will merely see this as just another lawsuit which serves simply to remind us that the CFTC still has to investigate any of the allegations against JPM and HSBC for silver manipulation. And while a lot of the content in the filing is regurgitated filler, it does provide some suggested details (with price/volume - probably a first in a legal filing) on JPM's specific manipulation techniques, which makes for some engaging reading. There is substantially more, which at time reads like a diary of a conspiracy nutjob, and unfortunately that is how the conflicted legal system will see it. Because after all it is the CFTC's dute to monitor its member firms, and as long as the regulator is one of the alleged manipulators, nothing will change. That said, we certainly wish the plaintiffs lots of luck to at least get their case heard. That said, and going beyond the purvey of this lawsuit, we ask ourselves: why all the endless sound and fury over this purported ongoing price manipulation. Surely, the plaintiffs are smart enough to realize that every market intervention (such as the alleged JPM silver manipulation) always ends with price discovery in the end, i.e., silver, gold, spam, what have you, reaching its fair value. As such, should the litigants not be thanking JPM for allowing them to buy silver at lower than fair value prices? We wonder...

Full filing below.



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Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:30 | 1677750 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Corruption.  Manipulation.  Theft.  Scandal.  JPM.

All in the same breathe.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:32 | 1677758 fuu
fuu's picture

Silver:JPM 1.2269 a little tighter than last week.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:49 | 1677838 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Silver eagle bitchez..

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:02 | 1677884 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

and i bought, what figured, was the last batch of pre-65 dimes im going to need yesterday....


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:08 | 1677904 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Tyler makes a fantastic point. Once this silver tsunami rises to a fair value plateau ($300? $500? $2000?), investors like us should be thanking Blythe for letting us buy it so cheap.

Blythe, bitchez. 

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:33 | 1678004 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

1916-D silver dimes!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:51 | 1678347 beastie
beastie's picture

They haven't been dropped. Read past the headline in the Reuters piece.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:00 | 1678111 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

That's exactly what I thought I was doing when I bought 3 contracts for delivery @ $20 spot only to have a massive margin call @ at $8.50. Ouch. You can imagine that I forgot to thank the sell side manipulators for the cheap prices. I got out of that arena quick smart and went straight to physical. Got my physical at a premium to spot, plus the margin call losses, but have my 5+ contracts worth at a tripple bagger and sleep well., no thanks to Blythe et al.

Np, he doesn't have a point.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:02 | 1678132 malikai
malikai's picture

If you had been more patient, you could have taken delivery at $8.50.

Timing is everything.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:17 | 1678213 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

And if the fox hadn't stopped to smell his shit, he would have beaten the turtle to the finish line. The point is, the bastards used unbacked sell dockets to beat the price down to skim long's accounts. They have nothing in the game and use the CFTC skirts to cover up their manipulation. I have watched the action from the safety of the physical sidelines only to see them use their other Orwellian tools to control the outcome over fair trades. Patience my ass. More like crystal ball.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 14:51 | 1680152 WmMcK
WmMcK's picture

I like the part when the rabbit ate the  sour grapes, too.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:06 | 1678158 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

You laugh last, Al.  Congratulations.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:11 | 1678176 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture



No, he doesn't have a point.

Why all the sound and fury, Tyler? For the same reason that you present this blog. Corruption, no matter where it resides, deserves outting and justice. I would have thought even you whould have acknowledged that. Just because you get to take advantage of the corruption, doesn't make it any less revolting. That's akin to not having any qualms about the corruption of the housing market robo signing, etc, ad nauseum.. Hey, the price of homes are 10 cents in the dollar. What an opportunity! Thank heavens for those market fluctuations. BUY!


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:16 | 1678204 malikai
malikai's picture

Listen to a bit of Friedman in the 70s. You'll understand.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:20 | 1678225 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I understand already. I got ripped.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:45 | 1678881 thesapein
thesapein's picture

I agree with you on this one.

Tyler is sounding like Rick Rule, calling it a sale, and why not like a sale on what you want, however, that's just self-justification for one's own position and hindsight and completely ignoring those who got burned.

I'd add, too, to all those who think it only hurts those trading in futures, don't kid yourselves; the phyical market is not just holders. You're forgetting about mining, mining stocks, and the whole supply side margins, yo!

Kind of cold even for fightclub.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 11:29 | 1679694 Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Yep. - and who wants a firesale just after he's loaded up with all he wants / can afford.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:36 | 1678510 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
Evil Genius Loves JP Morgan for Cheap Silver Price
Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:49 | 1678888 thesapein
thesapein's picture

And that's why he's evil.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:14 | 1677917 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

If the gold bugs had just bought US treasuries as a safe-haven asset like NORMAL investors, they would have more consistent profits and an INCOME. Instead they constantly get wipsawed in the volatile precious metals markets and then blame JPM as a cover for their amateur trading. JP Morgan traders got to the top because they are smart, and they simply know how to fleece the novices by leveraging their hard-earned cash.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:17 | 1677936 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Yes, I totally blame JPM for me being up 38% since November.

Damn you JPM!  How dare you make me wealthy while you engage in corruption.



Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:22 | 1677965 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

There are always exceptions. I take my hat off to you. Maybe one day you'll join the pros at Goldman and JP.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:28 | 1677992 Transformer
Transformer's picture

You are so right.  I wish I had bought Treasuries instead.  So, If I had bought Treasuries in 2009, how much more would I have made than with that stupid silver stuff?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:38 | 1678863 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

It's not too late, Transformer.  Send me all your physical silver and I'll send you some paper.  Let's get this done!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:22 | 1678236 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Just like all those unsophisticated buyers of sub-prime mortgage bonds, and Greek debt and LBMA gold,right?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:18 | 1678458 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

MBD you are best. You just kill me. I can not count how many times I laughed and blew soda out of nose after reading your posts. Thanks. ... note to self.. stop drinking soda when reading MDB's comments....

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:10 | 1677885 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

P.A.G.E will take care of this!


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:33 | 1677767 Thomas
Thomas's picture

The BAH crowd (buy and hold) loses nothing over time. The traders may have a case.

Gold and silver bug for 12 years....

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:34 | 1677770 trav7777
trav7777's picture

put silverbugz pumpers in that same sentence

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:35 | 1677780 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Hows' your paper, Trav?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:55 | 1677859 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Trav, when in the hell are you going to start that personal exercise program I have been advising for you!?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:12 | 1677922 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

His doctor has adivsed him not to get involved in an excercise program until his neck heals from his latest attempt to suck his own cock.  It's a shame.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:10 | 1677915 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

I really hope someone creates the handle trav's mom

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:23 | 1677950 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Who would degrade them self in such a manner?

Booyaa, the elusive two-in-one insult!

Subtly against Robo-Mom for his lack of self respect and obviously against the fucktard Trav777.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:56 | 1678105 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I still say Robot Tader's Mom is comedy gold, and for its class, cannot be topped. If you are in it for the laughs, it's fucking funny, every damn time.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:00 | 1678118 malikai
malikai's picture

100% Hat's off to RT's Mom.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:26 | 1678253 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Confirmed by your posts. When are you going to have that operastion? That penis attached to your forehead gets bigger each time you open your mouth. There has to be a correlation there somehow.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:41 | 1678036 gbomber
gbomber's picture

Have you seen sugar today?

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 00:17 | 1679343 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

I'm right here, baby.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:31 | 1677751 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Fair value, eh? So around 400 I take it?

HSBC is at least as responsible if not more so.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:30 | 1677752 Gecko Junior
Gecko Junior's picture

I'm a subscriber to Ted Butler Research.  Let me save you all the money:

Silver is being manipulated. 

That's literally all he writes about, week after week. I'd like my $39 back so I can go buy a Silver Eagle with it. 

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:33 | 1677760 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Butler. Banana peel. Staircase. Soon.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:39 | 1677794 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I'd like my $39 back so I can go buy a Silver Eagle with it.


At this moment Apmex is listing Silver eagles for sell @ $45.55 each.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 04:25 | 1679448 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

premiums are crazy everywhere, nearly. I'm from the uk and don't want to pay VAT. I have some family in OZ so spent some time looking at dealers there - but premiums are INSANE!! I was better off just paying the VAT over here! I have most of mine with

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:50 | 1677842 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

That may be true GJ but he's one of the first people that was saying it and he was one of the first to turn me onto PMs so if he ever made you money...well it was worth it then wasn't it?  Besides if you can get a ASE for $39 buy me a tube and I'll pay you back.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:32 | 1677757 President Palin
President Palin's picture

Couldn't happen to a nicer group of people.  Poor JPM.  Rot in hell.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:37 | 1677791 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Hello Sarah. I also fucked Glen Rice, only more recently.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:53 | 1677856 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Did you put a bag over head!?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:43 | 1678875 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I couldn't care less about Sarah as a politician but man, I'd do her in a hearteat.  I bet she is one hell of a ride.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:33 | 1677763 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

JP Morgan is just an entity.

The individuals behind the entity are the ones that need to named and punished severly (one way or another).

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:52 | 1677851 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Actually, I would like to pull J. P. Morgan himself from the grave and hang his corpse!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:59 | 1677876 JohnG
JohnG's picture

They are, here :


Read the whole suit.  It's a doozy.  Demanded a jury trial.  Plaintiff's do not have to settle. 

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:01 | 1677881 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Also, the tolling agreement with HSBC makes me think that HSBC will be called as a plaintiff's witness, they admit collusion => GUILTY.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:33 | 1677766 UncleJonNadler
UncleJonNadler's picture

Nadler here!! I can assure you JP Mourge is as pure as the driven snow! Just like my Gold forecast for the last 5+ years!! Nadler Out!!!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:34 | 1677775 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Damn you, Jon Nadler!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:04 | 1677893 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

maybe as pure as 'yellow' snow!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:13 | 1677930 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Jamie told me that snow was lemon flavoured...

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:39 | 1677799 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

LOL - Good to hear you're well John, and thanks for the update. Where would we be without your sterling quality insights as to why the pms are overbought, not in a bull market, overpriced, etc....

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:50 | 1677846 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Don't beat yourself up Jon!  JPM is as pure as the driven "slush"!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:35 | 1677771 malikai
malikai's picture

Personally, I woud like to send a box of chocolates to Dimon and Blythe.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:40 | 1677806 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Might I suggest 'Whizzo' brand confectionaries? I understand they have a fine Quality Assortment...

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:55 | 1678096 malikai
malikai's picture

Why is it that MP is /always/ appropriate? They covered pretty much everything, didn't they?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:35 | 1677781 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


Let's make a deal...and happy anniversary!

The completely laughable action in all markets this week should be proof positive to anyone with half a brain that "markets" are, well, no longer.

This week has been obviously about "the deal" that was cut during the G-7 meeting of last weekend. Buy stocks and prop the equity markets, sell Gold and "show" the world it is not a safe haven. Hell, who needs a safe haven anyway? The world has been saved again for the 153rd time in the last 3 years. Yes, it has been exactly 3 years since Lehman Bros. was kicked to the curb thus detonating a CDS (credit default swap) chain reaction.

So here we are 3 years later like the song goes, "another 3 years older and $10 Trillion+++ deeper in debt. But no worries, EVERYTHING is under least this week! Even Gordon Brown (the idiot who sold over half of Britain's Gold) says that the European banks are "grossly undercapitalized". What's next? Alan Greenspan comes out and says the U.S. banking system is insolvent? Almost every economic number that has come out in the last 2 months has been less than the already "weak expectations", yet here we are in "all is well land". I have news for you, it's not!

We wake up each morning where any news, any event, ANYTHING could be the tipping point where no matter how much "help" is unnofficialy given from the (official) government sector, the landslide becomes unstoppable. The entire western Anglo banking system in bankrupt. "We" can not be allowed to "know" this which is why I fully expect some type of "event" that The Powers that Be can point to. I fully expect to hear that "if it were not for (XYZ event) we could have turned it all around and have been fine"

Each "fix" that we have seen over the last 3 years has made the core problems worse. The point is that the core problems today are MULTIPLES of what they were leading into the "Lehman weekend". Back then the U.S. and European Treasuries and Central Banks had "room to move". They still had the ability to borrow massively and to print. They had the ability to ramp up borrowings which was done, they no longer have that luxury if the central banks are not there as lenders. In other words, the capital does not exist in the marketplace to satisfy more borrowings at ever exponentially higher levels. Now they only have the ability to print...period. THIS is your QE to infinity!

The systemic insolvency, the fraud, and the complicitness of governments to all of this etc. is about to come into full view for anyone and everyone to see. The problems currently in Europe are all about the lack of trust. This lack of trust will spread. It will spread to EVERYTHING paper. I believe that the collapse will be so far and so wide that "trust" will become so rare that only "real coins in hand" will spend.

Wimpy will no longer get his hamburgers and will go hungry until another system that is "trusted" comes about. It is now so obvious that this is game over. No matter how "warped" I try to make my viewpoint, I just cannot make the leap into current mass thought. I just do not understand how ANYONE can listen to Washington, Wall St., CNBC etc. and not see this for what it is. I guess you could call it "my bad".

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:49 | 1677839 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

"Every day the bucket goes to the well.  One day the bottom will drop out."


Eric Clapton - "Who Shot the Sheriff'.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 20:16 | 1677892 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:05 | 1677894 Cleg1
Cleg1's picture

Clapton covering Marley

Who will cover JP Morgan?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:16 | 1677944 Top_Kill
Top_Kill's picture

Unfortunately we all will.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:13 | 1678192 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

I'll bring my own shovel.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:52 | 1677850 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Buy stocks and prop the equity markets, sell Gold and "show" the world it is not a safe haven. Hell, who needs a safe haven anyway?

The manipulators of gold prices know you are trying to time the obvious manipulations in gold and are therefore likely to give you a great day to lure you back into the water and crush you.  We just saw a clear manipulation of gold prices, and now on opinions expiration day, we have a 2% rise which is slipping away as we approach the close.  What do you think is likely next week?  I think they are going to circle back and teach the paper traders a lesson.  Next week smells like it's going to be a bad one, so they are going to take gold out prior to any developments that otherwise would have raised gold prices. 

On the other hand, I missed the move.  We'll see.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:06 | 1677895 Zola
Zola's picture

There is an old saying that in a bull market you sit tight and hold... what will be interesting is when all the top callers and smart traders "time" their profit taking in gold and the rocket blasts off... that will be very funny... Selling is easy... buying back will be the trick i think.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:11 | 1677918 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Many have sold already thinking that "everyone" was bullish and they were "contrarians" not realizing that only 1% is invested in PMs.  There is so much room for higher PM prices it is surreal to think people don't get it yet.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:45 | 1678052 jemlyn
jemlyn's picture

"We wake up each morning where any news, any event, ANYTHING could be the tipping point where no matter how much "help" is unnofficialy given from the (official) government sector, the landslide becomes unstoppable."

Yes, every morning I have to check and see if we're still here. You too?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 17:22 | 1678667 WSP
WSP's picture

David, you wrote "No matter how "warped" I try to make my viewpoint, I just cannot make the leap into current mass thought. I just do not understand how ANYONE can listen to Washington, Wall St., CNBC etc. and not see this for what it is. I guess you could call it "my bad. "

If I had a silver dollar for every time I have had similar musings, I would truly be able to use fiat currency as toilet paper.   With that said, I had a long discussion with several people who specialize in human behavior about this subject, and they explained it to me quite simply that aside from the obvious "sports center" and "jersey shore" watching crowd that would not understand even if it was spoken in elementary language straight from their favorite "pop culture hero", the rest of the population is simply so overwhelmed they don't have time to understand it.  Now granted, you and I both look at it as "how can people not get it".  But what these professionals explained to me is that most people (aside from the sheeple that only watch "sports center") are just so busy trying to put food on the table that they could not care less "why" we have a problem---they just want to clothe and feed their children.  When I explain to these professionals "but this is exactly why we have the problem" since the sheeple don't get it, the reply is sure, and our "master" at the Fed are well aware of this fact.  In fact, the Fed’s primary academic research department (a.k.a. Harvard Sociology and Harvard Psychology) put in many long hours figuring out ways to "adjust" our populations mindset to keep them in the dark and overwhelmed. 

Put another way, the institutional fraud and deception is not just financial----it is institutional corruption in both financial and social sciences.   The deception is very deliberate, and while it is obvious to most of us, the masses simply have so many more "immediate" needs that they cannot see the forest through the trees.   From my perspective, this argument is akin to being upset about your dinner being burned up in a house fire which started on the stove while cooking the dinner.   I am the type of person that would not be concerned with my dinner----I would feel my house was the bigger problem.  However, as it pertains to most sheeple, they don't "get" that their house is burning down but instead are only concerned with where they will get a replacement for the meal that got burned.

Sound confusing?  That is why it is difficult for us to understand why the sheeple don’t get it, but as these human behavior professionals explained to me, when you spend every waking hour just trying to survive, most people tend to forgo explanations of the root cause and instead just react.  This fact of human nature has been well researched by the sociology department of the Federal Reserve (a.k.a. Harvard Marxist/fascist big government thugs) and they well understand how to manipulate the sheeple masses to keep them running on a wheel like a hungry hamster.

That's all I have for an explanation---people are too busy to care what the root cause is.  I don't like that explanation and prefer to just say the sheeple of the U.S. are the most ignorant people in the history of mankind, but in fairness, it could well be that once you get into the vicious 'serf" mindset, it becomes self-fulfilling.



Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:47 | 1678991 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

"That's all I have for an explanation---"  And a damn good one it is.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:39 | 1677783 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Identities of JP Morgan Silver Manipulators Exposed


"Marcus Elias"

"Robert Gottlieb, Christopher Jordan and Michael Connolly"


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:50 | 1677843 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

"Marcus Elias"

"Robert Gottlieb, Christopher Jordan and Michael Connolly"


So I'll buy an Ag Eagle for each of them. Join me.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:57 | 1678351 malikai
malikai's picture

I've already agreed to send Blythe and Dimon chocolates. You can sort these guys out.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:54 | 1677858 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Nathan Johnson, typical bastard

Neidermeyer, dead man

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:01 | 1677880 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Navin Johnson?

"Things are going to start happening to me now!"

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:57 | 1677868 Hearst
Hearst's picture

Didn't Bart Chilton recently announce that he would make another public statement on Silver this month?  

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:03 | 1677889 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes.  But how long has the "investigation" been "ongoing" anyway?  Didn't he say that he'd say something months ago and then...nada.  I don't think he's corrupt but someone has gotten to him either telling him to wait until there is more evidence or to not get in the way of these other litigations I'm not sure.


Perhaps it will all come to a head now?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:37 | 1678026 Hearst
Hearst's picture

I think it will be interesting to hear what he says.  Considering in the past he basically admitted to fraud in the Silver market.  What's he going to say to top that this time?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:09 | 1677905 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Thanks to Max Keiser, I have entered into some nice naked short options on JPM and as Silver rises, JPM will fall. 

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:15 | 1677937 TimmyM
TimmyM's picture

Let Robert know how you feel:

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:49 | 1679888 jackinrichmond
jackinrichmond's picture

thanks timmy...   generally, i don't like to send hate-emails, but somehow i feel a bit better now.

i got two words for robert, "general population"..  let the other criminals dispense true justice.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:37 | 1677789 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Here's the greatest investment mystery of all time.

Anyone know the market cap of AAPL?

I bet if you look up Vanguard or Fidelity's position in that one stock alone.....

What would have happened if that same amount of money was piled into the COMEX to stand for delivery?

Why hasn't anyone done it yet?


I guess people would rather own a bunch of $400 paper certificates than pallet loads of silver.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:43 | 1677817 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Dazed and confused so long it's not true......

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:48 | 1677836 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

It can be Infinity or it can be zero. AAPL after all is just another paper certificate. With Steve now retired the next product will be critical for Apples future. If it's not a huge hit AAPL could very well go down the crapper, really fast.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:27 | 1678955 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Me thinks Apple-sans-Jobs will get about three chances to impress, not one. But who cares, really?  I personally love my MacBook, iPhone and iPad but pretty soon, people all over the world will suddenly find themselves broke and won't be able to buy anything like Apple products.  That is, unless, you own some PMs in which case you'll probably be able to pick up a new iPad for an ounce of silver.  

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:56 | 1677862 kito
kito's picture

"i wanna be a billionaire so freakin baaad....

to buy up all the comex silver to be haaad....."

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:38 | 1677792 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

by Mr Lennon Hendrix
on Wed, 04/07/2010 - 14:12

So Max Keiser is killing it and he cleared some shit up for me.  We have until $20.92 to buy silver (this is its nominal high), because that is when JPM should be done unloading their shorts (more specifically the shorts they inherited from Bear Sterns).  Once that happens, the whole market should capitulate, and then silver to the MOON (we have our own Argonaut, GET THE FUCK IN THE BOAT PEOPLE!) followed by gold and oil.  By my calculations we will reach $20.92 at mid summer, then the market should capuitulate for 2-6 weeks, depending on how bad peak oil is right now, and then KABOOM!  Anyway, my two sense...I could be wrong. MB anyone?
Also, a low of $8.88 during the "crisis".  They are saying something.  They are saying 'We will run this town for infinaty'.  I cry ISIS!  Then I go to war with these damn JPM "M"arket "M"anipulators.  Join me!  BUY SILVER!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:45 | 1677825 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

$20.92!  Damn, that would be interesting!  If it gets to that level we will be in the middle of one helluva mess, a deflationary spiral, probably bought on by the unwinding of $1,500,000,000,000,000.00 in worldwide derivatives.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:53 | 1677853 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

He was re-posting (cut n paste) from April 2010!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:40 | 1677802 bania
bania's picture

I'm in the "thank you" camp. Now it's just a waiting game.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:41 | 1677808 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

The best way to find out if JPM is fucking around is to keep stacking and get your friends to as well.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:45 | 1677823 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Fuck if they'd have listened to me they would all have...ahh nevermind I'm tired of complaining about other people not making money.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:58 | 1677874 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

Starting buying gold and a little silver last year cause of Celente.  Then started going 100 percent silver buying after hearing Keiser when silver was 25 spot.  Got my bro, my friend and his gf all buying silver (coins and bars)...  So barbaric dude!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:17 | 1677947 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Barbaric relics at the gate bitchez.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:21 | 1677961 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

We're all barbarians according to Zbigniew Brzezinski's book 'The Grand chessboard - American primacy and it's geostrategic Imperiatives' but more so the people of black skin and brown skin, hell all non-white. But then the whites not in their little group are still barbarians. When I say little I have heard it is just 6,000 people.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:41 | 1677810 SaveTheGreenback
SaveTheGreenback's picture

They'll settle out of court for pennies. A huge part of JPM's business now is shorting silver thorugh the naked paper market.  They've already lost so much money.  They're not about to stop now.  They need to keep Silver volatile to scare away the physical buyers and keep the price low.   They don't want to be responsible for the SLV bullion when the paper starts to burn.

The only way to make JPM hurt is to buy physical!!!  I wish some rogue central bank or country would just take delivery of 1000 tons...that would do it!!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:43 | 1677815 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Don't do anything to upset my cheap Silver prices damn it! Just BTFD while you can because eventually, as the article said, Silver prices will move up to it's real value. The longer that takes the better for us.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:01 | 1677883 longhardbull
longhardbull's picture

Screw that, I already have enough and don't need to BTFD..

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 04:28 | 1679449 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

No you can never get enough - call your boss and ask for some overtime

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:00 | 1678901 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture


U just cut that crap about longer time to buy!   It's been on for years...and rotting.    

It's time to go for the jugular and have heads rolling!!!



Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:44 | 1677821 jon
jon's picture

don't wonder about the litigants, just listen to andrew's interview again.

he states precisely why he's out for blood.

GATA on the other hand... well... that's just GATA for you.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:04 | 1677891 stopthenewworldorder
stopthenewworldorder's picture

eh? what about GATA?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:48 | 1677835 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

We should be thankful?  Because we can buy more on the cheap?


Remind me too to send an X-mas card to Uncle Ben for destroying the value of the dollar.  Between Ben destroying our savings and JPM running a government sponsored campaign to brainwash Americans into avoiding at all costs anything that even resembles sound money, millions have been herded away from financial lifeboats at the very time our collective Titanic begins listing.

The artificial price fixing is perhaps good for myopically selfish individuals who are late to the game; I can't see it as being anything but rape for the rest of us.  Forgive me for being ungrateful.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:19 | 1677954 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

I heard somone once say " the best way to help poor people is not become one of them."

At the time i thought is was harsh. I still do.  Still harsh or not you cant save anyone if you dont save yourself first.

Best of luck.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:06 | 1678406 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

That is wise.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:53 | 1677854 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

I came relatively late to the physical silver and miners party and probably was a beneficiary from any JPMs price manipulation.  Is there any claw-back risk to people like me?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:56 | 1677866 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Sit tight friend. You'll be fine, just learn to BTFD.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:42 | 1678528 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

Keep stacking them, dig a hole, hide your stash and sit tight.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:55 | 1677860 caerus
caerus's picture

nice move in ag today...looks like 40 is pretty solid

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:09 | 1677907 SumSUN
SumSUN's picture

40 for First Majestic would be great.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:26 | 1677983 frippy
frippy's picture

$40 for GPL even better.

OK, I'll take $4 for now.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:56 | 1677863 MarcusLCrassus
MarcusLCrassus's picture

Step 1: Outlaw naked shorts

Step 2: Watch the price of silver go to the moon and the price of JP Morgan stock go to $0.00

Step 3: Laugh

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:21 | 1677960 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

My supposed Congressman (Steve LaTourette-Syndrom) was discussing a bill to "break those damned speculator" at a recent telephone townhall.  The bill basically would have required any commodity investment purchase that was made or sold short would require possession of that metal for trade execution.  Never went anywhere, but I thought that would have been a wonderful trip for JP Morgan.  Of course, those fucks would have been grandfathered in to not be a part of that regulation. 

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 12:53 | 1679906 jackinrichmond
jackinrichmond's picture

i thought naked shorts were illegal..  perhaps its the enforcement that is the problem.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:57 | 1677867 LiquidIce
LiquidIce's picture

White House forced me to back project funded by Obama donor, Air Force general tells secret Congressional hearing

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 13:57 | 1677871 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

OT: Talking abt the fraudulent banks, tomorrow is supposed to be the "occupy Wall Street" day. Any guesses how many people will take part? IT World is writing that Anonymous is cooking something too.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:02 | 1677882 Gecko Junior
Gecko Junior's picture

Would anyone else like to eff Blythe? 

I don't mean like in the gentle, stare-into-each-others'-eyes kinda way... I mean the on her hands & knees, full-throttle, balls deep in the butt kinda way.

If only she didn't work for the Dark Side...

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:09 | 1677906 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I can't begin to tell you what I would like to do to her because I would get banned for life.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 04:32 | 1679451 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

I'd fuck her

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:13 | 1677928 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

yeah, probably many different things

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:14 | 1677933 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

I would like to thank the TPTB for yesterdays gold price and todays because i look like a genius today. We will see if i look like a fool next week :)


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:17 | 1677939 PaperBear
PaperBear's picture

(sarc) Oh, these evil conspiracy theorists. (sarc off) Of course the regulators are captured by the industry they are supposed to regulate so it is up to the silver vigilantes to acquire pyhsical silver thereby forcing the issue.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:23 | 1677969 Thisson
Thisson's picture

I read this complaint.  I am a securities lawyer who used to work on the Commodities Exchanges (both COMEX and NYMEX), and I found the allegations to be very weak. 

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:40 | 1678033 stopthenewworldorder
stopthenewworldorder's picture

Really? That was quick Thisson - 110 pages?  Or are you talking about the version of a year ago?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:22 | 1678233 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

So you are a defendant in some of these cases.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:36 | 1678492 Thisson
Thisson's picture

I'm Plaintiff's side, so no, I'm not representing a defendant.  And yes, I read through the 110 pages pretty quickly as I'm very familiar with complaints and don't need to read the sections explaining out-of-the-money options and delta hedging, for example.   I just don't see much of substance here, sorry.  To clarify, I read the version posted here in this thread.  I make no judgments about the complaint in the other suit mentioned in the main post.

Here's an example.  Just as a matter of common sense, if JPM could manipulate the silver market on the short side, why would they not also manipulate from the long side and make twice the profits?  The complaint just seems to lack common sense to me.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:20 | 1678829 tongue.stan
tongue.stan's picture

Could be they think discovery will yield some fruitful nuggets.


"Just as a matter of common sense, if JPM could manipulate the silver market on the short side, why would they not also manipulate from the long side and make twice the profits? "


Yeah, I mean if a rapist effed a victims vagina, why would they also not turn her over and take her from behind, and make twice his pleasure.


But alas, I'm no lawyer, so I lack any common sense.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:41 | 1678983 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

I'm not a lawyer and I definitely lack any common sense but any information regarding JPM's silver position that can be gleaned or leaked as a result of this lawsuit/trial will be a great thing for all PM investors.  I just wish they would televise the shit because whatever coverage we'll get from mainstream media will be piss poor and/or distorted.  

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:06 | 1678912 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

"Just as a matter of common sense..."

Oh, Pleeeeeeeeez! JPM is a branch of the US Government. Their balance sheets are so closely linked to US financial security, they are considered classified information. Making money as a "private" investing firm is just a perk that conceals the Morgue's true operations. Shorting silver, and using short silver to keep a leash on gold, are a major tool in the 666 toolbox used to "defend" the fiat US dollar. The money that is gained or lost by JPM while engaged in this activity is essentially irrelevant "noise" that only serves to further distract from what is really going on.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:25 | 1677975 AmazingLarry
AmazingLarry's picture

In reaction the the last sentence: no shit, Dick Tracy. I'm not going to sue anyone for stacking at a discount. In fact, drive spot to 0 cause I'd love me some free silver.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:26 | 1677981 nah
nah's picture

i want to take my silver to the store and buy nice shit

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 14:51 | 1678067 Segestan
Segestan's picture

If Bart Chilton causes silver to fair market value... he might just need to be deified. He would have a supreme worth.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:05 | 1678148 FluffyCone
FluffyCone's picture

Does JPM still have a lot of shorts to unwind? What is the fair value of silver? Thanks,

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:48 | 1678992 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Who knows what the fair value is.  Personally, I think silver under $50 is a good deal.  Not a bargain but a good, solid deal for where we are today.  Hell, it costs $60 to fill up my tank and I drive a mid-sized sedan.  So, silver to me is a good deal under $60.  

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 09:56 | 1679618 MonkeySmoke
MonkeySmoke's picture

The fair value of silver is--GSR 9.14:1. If you use $1800 gold then silver should be at $198. Every dollar exchanged for an ounce is another ounce in the stack and another dollar out of the system. As Max Keiser says: If YOU want $500 silver you can have it. What that means, is keep exchanging dollars for ounces and whatever price you want to see will happen. We ALL have to keep exchanging dollars for ounces for the price to continue to rise.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 15:31 | 1678278 digalert
digalert's picture



Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:02 | 1678388 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

"As such, should the litigants not be thanking JPM for allowing them to buy silver at lower than fair value prices? We wonder..."


So only those trading silver will probably be able to prove damages in this case....what needs to be discovered is some type of linkage between The Morgue and the CFTC....a smoking email, if you will.

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:36 | 1678508 polak potrafi
polak potrafi's picture

...zadac kluczowe pytanie.


Dear Zero Hedge


Thank you for being out there. Without a doubt you've brought more love and understanding into international relationships than United Nations, that pretty soon are going to face a really tough cookie on its agenda.


Not knowing whether there is even a slightest faint of chance to see any hints from your side on this, I would like to ask "Who shall lose?" and "How much?" if we don't see 2000 on gold or 50 on silver before the infamous 2012 kicks in.


truly yours

one of the many grateful (not dead) fans

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:36 | 1678509 Hannibal
Hannibal's picture

You dont hold it You dont own it!

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 16:50 | 1678556 YouThePeople
YouThePeople's picture

When the value of PM's goes up be happy.

When the price of PM's goes down buy more and be happy.

Hence, buy and hold physical PM's and be happy.


Fri, 09/16/2011 - 18:23 | 1678837 SILVERGEDDON

If you don't own it in physical, if you can't touch it, if it is not in your possession one hundred percent, then you have no control and no say in what happens to that which is yours. If the bank or brokerage has it, you are fucked. Ooops, I did it again - made your money disappear! So, if you enjoy getting fucked, stay in paper to wipe your ass with afterwards. Or, park it in a tangible resource, and ride out the storm. Gold will never be worth $28.00 an ounce again, and silver will never be worth less than the coins it was minted in, not too long ago, either.

Sat, 09/17/2011 - 04:34 | 1679452 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
theMAXILOPEZpsycho's picture

3rd party allocated metal?? safe?? bullionvault?

Fri, 09/16/2011 - 19:19 | 1678937 dehdhed
dehdhed's picture

personally, i love these guys .. they're my heroes

without their help i never could have accumulated so many ounces over the years


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