Appeals Court Finds Obamacare Mandate For Individual Health Insurance Unconstitutional

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Fri, 08/12/2011 - 13:19 | 1554686 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

i agree, you can't force private citizens under threat of fine to purchase health insurance from for profit companies.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 13:31 | 1554730 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

Try living in Europe you'd be amazed at all the things the government can Force you to do here (fuking commies)

And forget fines try prison

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 13:33 | 1554750 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

We are not Europe (yet, well not completely). That is why we need to elect someone like Ron Paul. We are and have been moving in that direction for many many decades (over a century).

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 13:38 | 1554780 StormShadow
StormShadow's picture

Ron Paul would be a great Secretary of the Treasury, but a miserable president. 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 13:47 | 1554819 Overpowered By Funk
Overpowered By Funk's picture

Really? more miserable than GWB or O'Bomba?

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 01:06 | 1556506 Jack Napier
Jack Napier's picture

/-\-/=[-<>-]=\-/-\
Greetings seemingly intelligent folks who have been suckered by Ron Paul. His father was a freemason. His wife and daughters are in the order of the eastern star. You are being deceived. If you are truly awake, do not support the controlled opposition such as Dr. Paul and Alex Jones. There is no savior in Washington. Even if there were, we all know elections are rigged. Buy silver and crash JP Morgan. It's the only thing we can do without personal risk.
\-/-\=[-<>-]=/-\-/

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:51 | 1555090 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

My mind pretty much seized up trying to even fathom a ruler more miserable than GWB/Obama.  Maybe Vlad the Impaler, but even then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't lecture me daily from behind a pair of teleprompters about how he's doing everything possible to assist me, how my impaled condition is all due to absolutely everyone other than him, and that my vitals statistics all point to a lifeless recovery.  ;)

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:45 | 1555297 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Going back to the subject of the article, where the judicial branch is working up to deleting, or not deleting, a plainly tyrannical law that would transform the commerce clause into a writ allowing the federal, no, scratch that, CENTRAL government of the US to do anything to you that it pleases...reconsider which president was worse, the the one who appointed originalists to the bench and the supreme court, or the one who appointed the worst statists he could get through Congress??

Here in is the very core of the reason Western Civilisation cannot afford another Obama term. He would very clearly appoint people who would make decisions ending this grand experiment in human freedom, by rewriting the constitution to statist ends.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:44 | 1555298 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Going back to the subject of the article, where the judicial branch is working up to deleting, or not deleting, a plainly tyrannical law that would transform the commerce clause into a writ allowing the federal, no, scratch that, CENTRAL government of the US to do anything to you that it pleases...reconsider which president was worse, the the one who appointed originalists to the bench and the supreme court, or the one who appointed the worst statists he could get through Congress??

Here in is the very core of the reason Western Civilisation cannot afford another Obama term. He would very clearly appoint people who would make decisions ending this grand experiment in human freedom, by rewriting the constitution to statist ends.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:16 | 1555784 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Well stated.

I read this Bloomie editorial this morning. I had to read and re-read it to make sure what my eyes were telling my brain was accurate to what was on the page. The pertinent passages from this particular fluff piece...

"Obama, asked about asserting a 14th Amendment right to raise the debt limit unilaterally -- or at least threatening to do so -- said: “I’ve talked to my lawyers. They are not persuaded that this is a winning argument.” And that was that.

Obama’s reluctance to use a power he felt he wasn’t entitled to was impressive, even if the former constitutional lawyer was wrong in his interpretation. When was the last time a president voluntarily gave up power for no better reason than obeying the Constitution (which, just incidentally, he has sworn an oath to defend)? If it had been a Republican president and his supporters in the legislature were making such a case for an imperial presidency, liberals would be having fits.

Obama’s stand on principle is especially noble because he might well have been able to use the public debt clause to have his way, even if his interpretation of it was wrong. First, he could have threatened to use it, even knowing in his heart that he would not. And second, there’s a good chance the Supreme Court would not take such a case."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-12/obama-s-14th-amendment-stand-counters-wimp-factor-claims-view.html

The mental calisthenics involved, for the editorial board of Bloomies to write that is breathtaking to me.

A "constitutional lawyer"...who never argued a case before SCOTUS. Or even a petty theft case before any municipal judge or any case anywhere for that matter.

He "consulted" his lawyers before determining what he was contemplating doing was un-constitutional, so he can now be said by the Bloomie editorial board as standing on principle?

I need a drink...a stiff one.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:10 | 1555993 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"I need a drink...a stiff one.... "

Dude, have one on me.  I'll follow suit.  But Boomberg is a great view into wtf is going on, especially in the morning.  Keene and Pruit do a good job of a) being pussies, but b) queuing up opposing  viewpoints.  So the themes of their shows are to have their guests battle out  the issues across sessions.

- Ned

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 20:53 | 1556090 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Dude, have one on me.  I'll follow suit."

Quick, hurry up,..they're slidin down easy...lol.

This particular type of garbage MSM meme will always catch my eye. Here is a man propped up by nothing but illusion. He's not a "constitutional lawyer" or a professor or scholar of the Constitution. This is a man who once said the Constitution is a collection of "negative liberties".

Think about the implications of that for a second...................

He has always interpreted the Constitution as a hinderence to what the states plans are for the people, instead of what the peoples plans are for the state.

And Bloomie, by propagating the lie that he is a constitutional lawyer or that he is learned of our basic law and then omits the fact he has been consistently wrong with his "scholarly" opinions from the Heller case to his own health insurance nightmare legislation gets nmewn's razzie for the day ;-)

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:59 | 1555327 Michael
Michael's picture

All our problems are already solved by blaming George Bush.

See how great BO and the Obamabots are? Problems solved.

"Al-Qaeda gonna getch yah? Odds unlikely."

You can quote me on that. MJN

You can even make bumper stickers out of that saying.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:04 | 1554877 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

'Miserable' President, eh? I have to ask you, who has a more consistent credible track-record?

  • He has never voted to raise taxes.
  • He has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
  • He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
  • He has never voted to raise congressional pay.
  • He has never taken a government-paid junket.
  • Passed legislation for a full audit of the Federal Reserve system acquiring in the process 320 co-sponsors in the process

  • He has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
  • He voted against the Patriot Act.
  • He voted against regulating the Internet.
  • He voted against the Iraq war.
  • He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
  • He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
  • Warned American's about an unsustainable economic boom, emanating from artificially-low interest rates, which fueled a speculative housing bubble and consequent bust
  • Introduced legislation American Traveler Dignity Act, to disband the TSA and return Americans their right to privacy at airports
Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:05 | 1554886 shushup
shushup's picture

He has voted "Present" more frequently than anything else.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:10 | 1554903 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Go ahead and vote Romney then. He admits to loving the Federal Reserve, no public audits and never to abolish it.

Go ahead, put another Fascist in and watch American burn to the ground.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:17 | 1554938 PuppetRepubl1c
PuppetRepubl1c's picture

Go ahead, put another Fascist in and watch American burn to the ground.

 

+1 agree completely

 


Fri, 08/12/2011 - 16:32 | 1555471 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

No single group of people enjoy watching America burn to the ground more than libertarians. 

Do you not read the comments section around here?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:06 | 1555613 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

but only the Republicans have the votes to cause burning to occur.

well???

 thats not exactly true.. becuase we all know the Democrats have not done anything the republicans dont do.. so two peas in a pod, really.

dog and pony show.

there is no difference between team red and blue! just all part of the show for the sheepish consumers!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:46 | 1555951 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

We're all happy in Barney's (read blue+red = purple) America!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:33 | 1555807 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>No single group of people enjoy watching America burn to the ground more than libertarians. 

It's true; there's a lot of schadenfreude in seeing what happens when others do the opposite of what Austro-libertarian theory indicates, i.e. less freedom, more taxes, more government spending, more government interventions, more bailouts, more welfare, more warfare, etc. I wish I could live in an era where society wasn't self-destructing, though.

Sun, 08/14/2011 - 11:05 | 1558755 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

"I wish I could live in an era where society wasn't self-destructing, though."

 

Yeah, but you have to admit there is certain entertainment value.  Front row seats to history and all that.  Peace and prosperity might be too boring for human nature. 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:12 | 1556128 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[No single group of people enjoy watching America burn to the ground more than libertarians.]---Libertarians fo...

I consider myself a "classic libertarian."  I'm a constitutionalist.  Very conservative.  I'm a Tea Party member, as well as an Oath Keeper.

Not sure if you'd lump me into your "libertarian" catagory.  I don't know of any like-minded folks who enjoy watching America burn to the ground.  Mind you, much of the burning happened before I was born.

Are you confusing anarchists for Libertarians? 

On the otherhand, Leftists are the only ones I know who truely salivate at the destruction of capitalism, rule of law, unalienable rights, natural law, private property rights, limited govt, etc.

 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 13:30 | 1557268 cdskiller
cdskiller's picture

We leftists also salivate at the idea of accountability, equal rights, conservation, justice and education. On that note: please learn how to spell.

Sun, 08/14/2011 - 10:13 | 1558639 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

 

 

 

Oh my goodness, there's a leftist on ZH.  Welcome.

(Don't worry cdskiller, this isn't gonna hurt a bit.) 

Equal Rights.  I thought I already mentioned equal rights under "unalienable rights."  Unless, of course you have a different idea of what "equal rights" mean.  What does it mean to you?  From whence come these "equal rights"?  The govt? No.

Accountability.  Sounds good.  But, who is accountable to whom?

Conservation.  Sounds good.  I enjoy the outdoors too.  Who determines what?

Justice.  I like justice too---individual justice in a court of law.  Social justice? No.  Sorry.  Our Founders didn't believe in collective justice.

Education.  Indeed, our Founders strongly believed in an educated informed electorate.  Public education has an important role.  And, private schools should play a larger competitive role.  Schooling directed from the Federal level?  No.  That's up to each state---a state's rights issue.  Our Constitution does not expressly give to any federal branch the authority to create, direct, or regulate public education.

Now, see?  That didn't hurt. 

 

Sun, 08/14/2011 - 11:14 | 1558780 I did it by Occident
I did it by Occident's picture

I think it's the Phoenix idea.  Basically the US is too far down the path of tyranny, that the system inevitably imploding is seen as the only way for a return to constitutional/classical liberal ideals (i.e. negative liberties, rule of law, personal and individual self-reliance, true capitalism, minimal govt in the economic sphere, etc.).  Too many are dependent on the central state (even the states) and will fight to keep their unconstitutional benefits, thus making the implosion inevitable.  But the fires of renewal will hopefully return the US to its first principles.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 23:39 | 1556400 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Not America...just 70-80% of the Feral government.

It's not so much about satisfaction, as it is about recognition of, and resignation to, the inevitable.

 

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 14:26 | 1557330 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

Agreed, "America" is not the power hungry idiocracy in D.C.

Sun, 08/14/2011 - 02:57 | 1558076 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

And no other group will enjoy and do more to help in rebuilding America around sustainable Constitutional principles.  Suggest you read about and see pictures of what has resulted from the Yellowstone fires of 1988.  At the time, few wanted the fires and a lot of money was spent fighting them.  Then think about Japan after WWII and South Korea after the Korean War.

It is way past time to worry about how to apportion blame for the overgrown and unroductive underbrush that is choking our economy.  At this point, it is also pointless to worry about who struck the match and far too expensive to create lines around much.  There isn't the political will to allow controlled backfires to burn, we had our chance in 2008.

As a libertarian, I'm offended that you think there is some evil or selfish motivation that would cause me to enjoy suffering.  I fought as hard as I could against, but now accept and prepare for, the inevitable consequences of the policies of non-libertarians.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 17:45 | 1555707 srelf
srelf's picture

+2

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:24 | 1554965 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Willard Romney... More spineless than Hairy Reid... The First Douche among Douches... The Republican version of Gavin Newsome... A two dimensional pretty boy card board cut out of a politicain with brains of.... cardboard...

Willard Romney:

"Corporations are people!"

Iowans should have pelted that worthless bitch with tomatoes and corn cob on the spot and drove him off of the stage and out of Iowa on a rail...

Willard "The Rat" Romney (As in the movie: Willard...)
A perfect example of the complete and utter uselessness and failure of the US political class... Kulaks one and all...

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:25 | 1554969 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

Too true

+1

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:50 | 1555321 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Yup, Romney is a statist, a guy who promises to make government "work", which is how we got here: Democrats enact vast vote-buying, dependency building federal bureaucracies, and Republicans like Romney, rather than deleting them, promise to make them work. This goes in one direction only. We need a president who'll delete programs entirely, not tweak, apply iso 9000 management consulting makeovers to the orwellian Dept of Education, useless Dept of Energy, and on and on.

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 17:02 | 1557493 milkchaser
milkchaser's picture

Thankfully, our choices are not limited to Romney or Ron Paul.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:30 | 1554988 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

That is actually a compliment considering all of the awful things Congress has done in the past 30 years.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 22:12 | 1556243 zhandax
zhandax's picture

BB was talking about Ron Paul.  As you pointed out, there is very little obummer has ever voted for (or against).

Sat, 08/13/2011 - 01:01 | 1556501 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Progressive/Socialists/Obamatron supporters/Decepticrats don't really need reading comprehension skillz, just a loud voice (or in this instance, a keyboard), and a willingness to do what Big Brother tells them, especially during the 10-minutes hate!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:06 | 1554888 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

i like your bullet point thingies

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:11 | 1554910 SMG
SMG's picture

I agree with every single one of those votes.   But in the end we got everything he voted against done to us.   He is not charasmatic and although I'm not sure, I think he's controlled opposition.   We need another champion of these ideals.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:17 | 1554939 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

we don't have much time left, the economy will totally implode before the next election.

I would rather put a Pro-American president in now then risk losing the nation.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:16 | 1555193 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The nation is already lost. It was taken from us through the principles of adverse possession. Unconstitutional laws were ushered in throughout the last hundred years and allowed to stand, like razor wire fences well within the borders of our own private properties, intentionally put there to steal from generations of people who were not around to defend themselves against future tyranny of the Nanny State. Until we the people decide to survey the land with both our Deed and wire cutters in hand, and take back the land the previous two generations unwittingly yet intentionally gave away as a matter of convenience and false prosperity, then TPTB will continue on with their own dark and maddening version of Amerika the beautiful.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:26 | 1555236 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

So I read this GREAT Post that has stuck with me.. in spite of my readers digest mentality.

the last time I read something here that stuck with me / moved me was.. forgive my regurgitating this thought improperly (to the original poster).

There can be no us or them.. only when we are them..

that abortion of a mis-quote was in reference to educating the masses.. only after everyone is educated will we ALL be better off.

 

Back to this GREAT POST that got my ADD attention to settle down..

The description of right verses left.. can be described one way.. throughout history.

The Right Looks at the World from a Top Down Perspective.

The Left Looks at the World from a Bottom Up Perspective.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/obama-implementing-plans-war-throug...

 

***** "If you want a clear logical definition of what differentiates 'right wing' thinking from 'left wing' thinking I would say that it lies in the confrontation of 'top down logic' and 'bottom up logic'; the French revolution and the American revolution incarnated the triumph of the latter in their declaration of human rights; the corner stone of 'left' logic." ******

 

Which takes us back to.. People Not! Corporations or Government should have the Power.

of course as much as Most of us here will Love the idea of this.. the majority of Citizens in the United States are NOT! Capable of caring for themselves let alone comprehending what is truly Good v. Bad for them. Thusly! we have a Two Party System that accepts more money from the Interests of Foreign Countries more so than ALL the Big Brand Name Wall Street Banks!

 

The Lobby Owns Our Government!

"We the People" have allowed the Government to Sell Itself Off!

"We the People" have allowed an Electoral College to Vote for "We the People"??

I could go on and on.. but the bottom line is that the Bottom or the Majority.. "We the People" Broadly do NOT! give a fuck about anything other than what "We the People" are programmed with by 24 hour a day Corporate Owned News Agencies.

 

So??????? how do we.. the Few! influence / educate the idiot majority Sheepish Consumer Masses? How do we the few? minus 5th Ave. multi-market / sub market testing.. create meme's that can compete with the MTV Generation / Readers Digest Mentality Majority? How can we help ourselves with Truth? or more reasonably.. can we? can we help ourselves? or are we ALL too far gone?

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 18:03 | 1555749 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

 

It's too late to save America.

It's too late to save other people.  They're not worth saving anyway.

Save yourself.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 21:42 | 1556189 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[***** "If you want a clear logical definition of what differentiates 'right wing' thinking from 'left wing' thinking I would say that it lies in the confrontation of 'top down logic' and 'bottom up logic'...]---JW n FL

Hi JW.  I disagree.

But, it's encouraging to see someone who cares enough and is curious enough to intelligently drill down to the core of our ideological differences.

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:16 | 1554935 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

He has never voted for an unbalanced budget

- doesn't matter like you think it matters...those who value balanced budgets over everything else, have unbalanced minds

Should we be prudent? Yes.  But anyone that thinks balanced budgets should be law #1 in America are idiots.  So are the Keynesians.  Both are equally idiotic. Austrians are just as stupid as Keynesians..we just live in Keynesian world..so it's easy to overlook that Austrians are still MONETARISTS.

Monetarism is an Anti-American and anti-constitutional economic system. 


I'm not here to argue whether or not he'd be better than Nero or Dumbfuck Bush, but he'd be bad in his OWN way, if he was allowed to be. 

He has some major plusses, but a greater many minuses obscured by Keynesian insanity we currently are showcased every day.

The Austrian School of economic non-thought are idiots.  Just a little less idiotic in today's world.  If the Austrian school was in charge, the keynesians would look good, and think their shit don't stink. 

Monetarism as a whole is what's wrong.  All the schools of monetarism are WRONG.  All are OLIGARCHICAL in NATURE. Those are facts.

But it all goes back to one side of the propaganda.

Healthcare, Social Security, and certain things the gov't pays for, IS NOT what caused this problem.  The fact Ron would basically do nothing but shut stuff down is not a good president.

What are his ideas to DO something?

He just wants to tear down good and bad things.

Thus if he was president...we'd get rid of a lot of bad things...while creating new problems as he got rid of good things.

Why? Because he would listen to the dogma of his idiotic, anti-american MONETARY school of non-thought.

 

Ron Paul isn't the answer.  Even if he supports some good things.  He again, supports many bad things. 

What we need is someone who will get rid of the bad things, and create good things.  Ron isn't that guy.  Rand surely isn't.

 

Glass-Steagall

American Credit System (not monetary system)

Good luck to all!

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:26 | 1554971 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture

What exactly are the good things government does again??

 

*crickets...crickets....crickets....*

If you think its social security you are crazy.  How people think that sending the government their money so they can get 75% of it OR LESS back is a good deal is so totally beyond me, its amazing.

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 15:16 | 1555201 Trial of the Pyx
Trial of the Pyx's picture

for the most part keeping the rivers from catching fire

 

oh...I forgot, we can trust the enlightened self interest of corporations to do the right thing

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 14:28 | 1554976 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Never voting for an unbalanced budget means he never voted to create debt where revenues were insufficient to pay. This means he was prudent, not unbalanced.

Austrians are not monetarists, not even close. You are confused by Friedman's collaborations with Hayek. Hayek diverged from Mises on the important issue of taxation and monetary theory regarding government. You might want to do a little reading before you open your mouth.

Ron Paul has very sound ideas regarding economics. His consistency encourages the idea he will not be reckless or driven by "dogma" without a thorough evaluation of the events. 

You on the other hand, not so much.

 

Fri, 08/12/2011 - 19:50 | 1555956 Joe Sixpack
Joe Sixpack's picture

Thre may be times when an unbalanced budget makes sense, but not everytime and all the time for sure!

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