Are Government Unions Out Of Control? An Infographic
This week, Arizona legislators are voting on a package of bills that would be “Wisconsin on steroids” – banning collective bargaining, release time and automatic deduction of union dues from paychecks. The unions plan state capitol protests this week, so things are heating up and the story has already appeared in various national publications. Since union protests are planned for the capitol tomorrow it will likely involve a lot of drama and TV coverage. Yet like every issue there are pros and cons, and government unions are a very sensitive topic to be sure. While the TV coverage will certainly focus on the favorable side of unionization (after all, what is better for the economy than more people collecting paycheks.... even if these are ever diminishing paychecks) here is an infographic from the Goldwater Institute looking at the cost side of the equation.
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Unions should be abolished, really.
We don't need unions anymore with all the programs the government has to protect workers.
I don't even want to list them all.
This golf resort is owned by the UAW:
http://blacklakegolf.com/
Thank you US tax payers!!!!!!!
...it's half time America - put on your work boots so next time these jerk offs need a bailout they can still play golf at their resort
If people want to collectively bargain instead of negotiate on their individual merits that's fine with me. They just shouldn't get any government protection for doing so.
Obama guarantees their standard of living with tax payer money. Why do you think he has such overwhelming support from unions? He'll subsidize their losses no matter what.
Unions are nothing other than a legalized form of organzied crime.
PUBLIC UNIONS should DEFINIATELY be abolished. Doctors can't unionize, why should public workers be able to?
One of his first moves in office was to give them a 10% raise. Then the following year he "froze " their wages to make it look like they were feeling the pain with the rest of the nation.
Do it the greek way. Fire all workers, and for every 5 fired, hire just one.
Careful. It was ugly here in Wisconsin and they repealed it in OH. Oh, and plan on being called a Koch-head.
Get it strait. It is now Private Sector vs Public Sector Warfare. None of this class warfare bullshit.
Government jobs, of which there are quite a few at the federal, state and local levels of government, are the last bastion of the unions.
In the United States, there are 22.5 million government employees (at least as of the 2008 census - I haven't checked the 2010 census and do not care to get more ill).
TOTAL - 22,461,691
2008 US Population (est) - 304,059,724
Of course, this 22.5 million is a number representing direct employees, and I wouldn't be shocked if there's another 5 million 'subcontractors' of government agencies (or maybe 2x that amount).
Leaving the issue of contractors and subcontractors aside,
1 in every 13.5 jobs in IOUSA is a direct employee of federal, state or local government.
*It's a good thing we can afford this largesse, given our very disciplined spending whereby our national debt = a mere $200,000 per citizen if David M. Walker, the former Chief Comptroller of the United States, is to be believed (or $700,000 per anyone who currently pays net taxes), based on what he has come with as a pretty concrete Debt of 61 trillion USD (that was as of 18 months ago, so add...I don't know...a couple trillion).
Kotlikoff pins it 3.3x as high as Walker, so that's a cool 2.4 million per net taxpaying citizen.
Contractors are just a way to hide what is going on, they ( mostly) do a pissy job and end up costing more.
I see Florida citizens getting suckered into this Correction corp and others running the jails...just wait Florida the billion dollar lawsuits alone will convince you to dump every self-service Republican you blindly elected. Thank God I live in Georgia, at least ours don't give away the state if they want to sun at Tybee this year.
Well, if using contractors and subcontractors is a stealth way of getting that ratio of government workers to overall IOUSA jobs to 1 in 10, or even better, 1 in 8, then Paul Krugman is all for it, so who can be against it...
With the last 50% increase in population in the US there was a 125% increase in the number of government employees. The military is generally constant around 1million.
I would place the subcontractor number even higher and if include all personel who's primary function is complying with local, state and federal regulation obviously the number would go even higher.
It is sick as the government and their no show jobs, have become the largest employer, consumer, landlord, tenant, lender and borrower. The crowding out factor is substantial and obviously slams the poor and middle class the most as they compete with a largely unaccountable government for same goods and services.
Banana Republic Model.
Government invented racketeering, then passed laws against it to eliminate the competition.
THE FORGOTTEN MAN
http://www.mcnaughtonart.com/artwork/view_zoom/?artpiece_id=379
Kotlikoff's,
The Coming Generational Storm: What You Need to Know about America's Economic Futureis an excellent read:
http://www.amazon.com/Coming-Generational-Storm-Americas-Economic/dp/026...
What about individuals who are neither direct employees nor subcontractors but who tangentially rely on government spending to keep their industries going? We're talking everything from the fast food restaurants that rely on EBT-carrying customers to the armies of "consultant" middle-men that have to get their cut whenever the government is contemplating an infrastructure project. It would probably be near impossible to quantify, but there are a whole lot more people than those 22.5 million who depend upon our "largesse" (at threat of incarceration).
"....who tangentially rely on government spending to keep their industries going?"
Being one of the "tan-genitles", I hang my head in shame and admit that all that live here in DC are reliant on the gov in one way or another.
22.5 million govt employees = 22.5 million workers that don't pay taxes
Really? What some, or most, or you fail to realize that it most public sector workers DO NOT belong to a union
--Public-sector workers had a union membership rate (37.0 percent) more than five times higher than that of private-sector workers (6.9 percent).Yes, its five times higher than private sector workers but 63% of public sector workers dont belong to a union or have collective bargaining rights. I fucking know, I'm one of those non unioin workers. I don't have a gold plated retirement plan that pays me 90 to 100% of my salary, I don't have medical insurance coverage after retirement. so stop this bull shit talk about public sector versus private sector bullshit. You're doing exactly what the PTB want you to do, you idiot!
Gub, you are probably safe. If your job can't be done cheaper by the private sector, and you do not have a benefits package that is out-of-line with those of private sector, and you are doing a job that must be done, you are providing a public service.
That is the test when funds run short. Is this person providing an essential public service that can't be done for substantially less in the private sector?
Yep, sewage treatment, and a private firm did try to take over the operations but when I pointed out to the town council that their contract required the town to pay for the costs of replacing major equipment at the town's cost, and how then that does not provide the contract operations to do much of an incentive to perform preventative maintenance....well...I'm still there :-)
Oops, double post!
Ahmeexnal
About six months ago I read this article about some Westerner in India. He had five women with scissors mowing his lawn. When asked if that was offensive he pointed out that the labor was cheap and each of those women were feeding their families. One person with a mower would have made far less than those women with scissors.
Five families saved.
By hand was how it was done on base in Morocco in the 50's in enlisted housing.
stupid westerners & their manicured lawns - waste of space, pollutants for maintenance - let the women plant out food gardens, it would be a better "gesture" - they could share the food in markets, make more money, "save" more families.
A friend who spent some time in South America said it was customary (expected) if you were doing well financially, you were to employ others. A cook or someone to look after the home cost about $25/wk U.S., so it was not a big deal to comply with the cultural expectation.
*at 40-60% the former employee wage
There is a pretty good chance many public sector workers will lose a large portion of their pensions and health coverage in the coming years.
At barely 60% funded in many cases, only an immediate and powerful revival of the private sector can provide the infusion of funds over the coming decades to restore the health of these funds.
The 2011 U.S. median household income was $49,909. That's "household" as in there may be more than one worker helping to get the number up that high.
Even if highly educated, public workers making substantially more than $50K are supported by the private sector median income as the source of public paychecks. Luckily, the private sector tends to work for 45 years which helps close the funding gap, but the public sector's ability to secure employment over multiple decades has deteriorated.
As we have seen in negotiations around the country, entrenched union members will not budge. In almost every case, they end up creating a two-tier agreement that screws younger union members to preserve the promises made to those with seniority.
If a resentful working environment develops as a result, look for a move toward more privatization as the final solution.
This is good and all, but the thinking is wrong. The reason government unions are "successful" is because their benefits are backed by the goverment with IOU nothings. We do not need to abolish gov't unions, we need to control the government and everything else will be resolved.
Two good places to start: 1) Re-establish the gold standard 2) Limit government to budget of 18% of GDP - spend it however you like, but you cannot exceed the limit. I would have added #3 - End the Fed, but do not want to be labeled as a terrorist by FBI at this time. Oops, too late. I am not prounion, but understand they represent the interests of their constituents just like the lobbyists. They are there to get as much as possible and they don't care how they do it. If the money is not there, well that is a showstopper. End of discussion. If people of your state would rather fund a 10% increase to your government workers instead of repaving the roads, go out and vote them out of office or move to another state not named California. Or Illinois.
What the hell is a GDP number? It's a made up, bullshit number that isn't at all reflective of the real economy. If you base government largess off some phony number they'll just game it like they do with the inflation number. Assuming we still need to have a national government, I think it makes more sense to strictly limit the types of taxes which can be employed and what the tax revenue can be used for and return control of the money supply to the people. Then the problem of excessive government can be resolved gradually and over time.
At the very least, we should add a Balanced Budget ammendment to the Constitution. It should also mandate that state governments must balance their budgets as well. I know, states are supposed to do that already. But when you look at California and its unfunded liabilities and the way they use accounting tricks to hide their shortfalls, its clear that some of the state governments are actually running deficits in reality.
Collective bargaining is wrong, even without gov. protection. For many businesses it boils down to either going out of business now because a walkout will shut them down, or going out of business later after the union bleeds them dry.
That wouldn't happen without government protections. Workers could potentially get fired for striking (or what regular businesses call "not showing up for work!") and get no unemployment benefits. That changes the balance of power substantially, and makes workers more carefully weigh the benefits and drawbacks of collective bargaining.
"Collective bargaining is wrong"
"Collective bargaining without 100% voluntarily participation is wrong."
There...fixed.
You fixed nothing, you pretentious ass.
Collective bargaining, with or without 100% voluntary participation, is as clear an expression of Global Communism as wearing a red T-shirt emblazoned with a yellow hammer & sickle.
It discourages exceptional performance and encourages mediocrity among workers, stifling the natural instincts that otherwise make individuals competitive with one another in a constructive manner and making the poor participants spiritually sick.
Collective bargaining is the very definition of a moral hazard.
hmm.. not quite.. Communism is where the government tells you what you are going to be paid as a collective.
Some larger companies prefer it to some extent so they dont have to negotiate the wages of every single emplyee. It would cost more to hire the managers to perform a task when you got 10 of thousands of emplyees.
A group of people wanting to get together to discuss and bring a proposition to maybe an unaware employer isnt communism, it's a form of free speech and right to work. If the employer wishes to fire them all for it.. then so be it.
People have the right to assemble. I'm sure I read that somewhere.
I guess I'll take the other side, just for sport.
Public employees should not be allowed to unionize. Its state sponsered legaized theft.
Private employees I don't really have an issue with them unionizing.
Pressure has to be brought to bear on management in some fashion or they will run it like little fiefdoms. And I'd rather that pressure come from the workers than the state.
If management is weak and caves to insane demands (like GM etc.) it is the management that ultimately ran it into the ground by caving...not the union. Let them strike, the company can get other workers and train them with time, the shareholders will just have to suck it up for a little while.
In the case of public employees, the taxpayer (meaning management here) is never at the negotiation table...so no union for you!!!...lol.
And no, I'm not a union member. For me it would never work out, I'd wind up telling the union and management to go pound sand ;-)
At what point does collective action (lower case) become Collective Bargaining (upper case), and thereby an expression of "Global Communism"?
If a group of employees meets after work, discusses their wages, and then they present a united front as they confront management with their grievances, does that make them evil commies? That seems like an expression of fundamental freedom to me. I also think management/capital should have the freedom to fire them immediately, if that's how they feel.
"Okay, boss, here's the deal: you're gonna pay Jimmy and me the same as you pay Frankie, or else me and Jimmy are gonna get all the guys to stop working and trash the place."
"But Frankie works twice as hard, and fixes the equipment for me, too. He deserves more pay."
"Jimmy, go tell Frankie if he fixes the equipment one more time, we're gonna get him fired. And break out his living room windows."
"You guys are real bastards. You're both fired."
"Nice factory you got here. Shame if anything *happened* to it. We'll be here to work tomorrow. We'll have my cousin's law firm and my uncle, Sherrif Rick with us when we punch in."
In Soviet Maryland: The Democrats and AFSCME are one and the same.
Same way in the People's Republic of California
D.C.-Virginia-Maryland = The Trifecta Corridor of Federal Government Employees (along with government 'contractors') & Taxdollar Milk & Honey
Don't forget Chicago, Crook County Illinois, Obamaville, the Union-topian State. Can I get a what what?
If people want to collectively bargain that's fine with me also....but that's not what "collective bargaining" is. Collective Bargaining is cohersive bargaining because I'm not allowed to opt out of that representation. If ten people in my department want to "go to our boss" and say give me a raise or we're all quiting...they should have the right to do that. And I should have the right to say "I'm staying you guys do what you want".
that's a rhetorical question, right?
That's the problem with this world. Wherever power consolidates, there you will find corruption. Life's a bitch, then you die, then you go to hell.
"Life's a bitch and then you die, that's why we get high." - Nas
so it took you about half of a second for you to associate this article on GOVERNMENT UNIONS and took a shot at the UAW. You're an idiot if you can't see the difference.
UAW, Govt Unions, Teamsters, all the same criminal socialists like the banksters. No difference.
The UAW is for all intents and purposes a government union. It would have gone bankrupt without GOVERNMENT money. Furthermore, auto loans are now guaranteed by the US government. That's why anyone with a pulse can walk into a dealership and get approved for an auto loan.
It's all government money.
The profits are kept privatized, the losses are socialized to the public and their votes go to whichever candidate promises them the most.
Private enterprise getting in bed with government is a defining pillar of fascism.
Stomarch churning. Once those on the teet reach 48%of the population, democracy slides into socialism... Funny how a crisis of too large govt witn too large liabilites from having made too many promises and provided too much support (all with the blessing of the voter whose progeny will pay the tab) results in EVEN MORE citizens running to the shelter of the govt, voting for still greater largesse...making sure they get theirs. This is how the swing in mindset can occur.
The UAW has my tax money in its pocket. Yes, it's a government union. Youre an idiot if you can't see the obvious. The UAW is bought and paid for, and they will lick the hands that feed them. May the chains lay lightly upon their backs.
I grew up in a union town, but I was quite unprepared for the level of hate I confronted once I had to deal with them. It was ugly as hell.
Lets go down to the Meadowlands In NJ and dig up Jimmy Hoffa and beat the shit out of him....Come on, who is in?
Oh Please, he is stuffed into a 55 gallon drum buried in the Love Canal. Get your facts straight next time.
Actually,,you are both wrong. He is in my backyard. Warmest regards, Ben.
So THAT's why Obama ran for president, so he could play there for free..
I just don't see the need for government "desk jobs" to be unionized.
Also, the reality is that this has become the way in which the democratic party is politically funded. Unions fund the democratic party races and they have every right to do that. Just don't expect the US tax payors of this country to be the payor. The democrats require public employees to join the union, the union funds democrats, and the tax payors ultimately pay the employees of the state. Nice racket and one no democrat would ever agree is right if this funded all republican races.
Q: Are Government Unions Out Of Control? An Infographic
A: No, they have run out of US taxpayers’ monies to kick the can down the road.
Aside from Central Planning member’s setting the stage for minimal growth projections, trillions more are needed in continuing the fleecing operations. The next US crisis will be disguised as window dressing, Win The Future.
Faith Collapsing
WHAT??!! Collective bargaining is a HUMAN RIGHT. Government unions are just bargaining for future benefits like any other private contract. The unborn children that pay these taxes will be happy to pay for a more equal and prosperous society. Unions need to take to the streets NOW and fight for their rights!
In my town Cops work for 20 years and retire between the age of 40's-50 with a full pension for the rest of their life.. some have been collecting for more than 40 years.... Hmmmm work 20 collect for life.. sounds like lotto.....
... Lotto rights for everyone Bitchez
Yeah let's just give everyone that deal, what could go wrong?
Oh yeah, Greece....
Greece Bitchez.
Every pensioner will get crushed when the dollar hyperinflates and pensions are wiped out. Social security is a poor backup plan because that will be gone too.
TheSilverJournal.com
I was thinking the same thing. Government is going to eat it's own with the hyperinflation it will cause trying to get out of debt. It will be strange though, because according to gov't statistics the CPI will never go above 6%.
As more and more asset classes undergo inflation, they'll just keep whittling down the basket of commodities they use to measure CPI. Gas skyrocketing? Food skyrocketing? Education costs skyrocketing? Who cares! Those things are inconsequential. The price of a toaster at Wal-mart hasn't increased much, so clearly we have 0% inflation! Yay!
Yep. Don't forget that when all of the 401Ks are (further) wiped out, that will lead towards more Baby Boomers working til they die and therefore less legitimate jobs for younger people ...
We have local government employees here who retire at age 56, on a 120% pension (based on their last year of compensation, which their co-workers help rig higher by arranging lots of overtime for that special departing public servant), who get health and life insurance forever, and can go out and get another job, and that's often also in the public sector, collecting their full pension from their first government job.
No, I am not fabricating this, and no, it's not uncommon.
Same in my town. Not just a pension but also a fat healthcare package. The unionized teachers in my city make six figures ($100,000+) once they reach about the 20-year mark on the job.
... Lotto rights for everyone Bitchez
And everyone's got a winning ticket--it's your Right! Your HUMAN Right. to retire in style. to have a condo in florida, so you can snow bird with the rest...or maybe you prefer Arizona? Tell me, Comrade, what you like.
I totally agree that people's ability to form a collective and bargain is absolutely a right they should have. However, employers should have the right to decide not to deal with the union if they so wish. Each side is free, each does things out of mutual benefit, and each has power within reasonable boundaries. Nobody should ever be forced as a condition of employment to belong to a union. They should be free. If this were the case unions would be a benefit to society in that they would have to make reasonable demands which don't get all their employees fired and provide value to employees for the dues they collect.
you're fucking drunk
government jobs (or contracts, or bailouts, etc., etc) are THE BOMB if you can get them -- always been the way and always will be. After all, it's not like the government is spending real money, so milk them for all its worth. Once we're all govt mules on the doll, everything will be great again.
I love MillionDollarBonus - he comes up and puts the commie line down with a straightface and all you folks fall for it. I guess it's also known as trolling but man he gets a rise outta the posters on here.
MillionDollarBonuses are a HUMAN RIGHT to union workers...see how easy the sarc is?
MDB, you should contact me via facebook. I can prescribe medication that can help you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yldgS-ySo24
Govt Unions are out of control? Hell they have been that way in NY State for the last 70 years, so why should we do anything to change, I mean it is not like we have a huge state deficit and they own the politicians in Albany. Oh wait we do have a deficit that is massive and the unions do own those worthless COCKSUCKERS in Albany. Hello Virginia....
Revolutions, bitchz.
Abolish unions? Of course. Let's start with the AMA and the American Bar Association.
All professions are conspiracies against the laity.
George Bernard Shaw
What about the CEOs' unions, where they all sit on each others' boards and keep raising executive pay, bonuses and stock options "because we need to be able attract good people"?
That's a union that negotiates with itself!
But I get it. When a union negotiates with management, it's the union's fault that the poor, helpless management rolls over and gives pay that hurts the (stockholders? taxpayers?)
Just like when a greedy, rapacious individual asks a bank/mortgage company for a mortgage that the person can't afford, it's not the weak, helpless bank's fault the money is lent, it's all the fault of the borrower.
Or the government, which forced the bank/mortgage company to issue "only liar loans at 120% LTV, or we'll kill you!"
Ben Franklin was wrong. He should have said: "United we're shit, divided we're free!"
A CEO union! I want one!
united we're shit, divided we're diarrhea
My favorite scene from Hoffa is when the Corp. boss gives the "OK" and the warehouse doors fly open letting out thousands of independant contractors with baseball bats and pipies to beat the shit out of the union parasites.
Great cinema
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_labor_issues_and_events
there's your free market fuckwits...
after all the bullshit that the elites have tried to pull over the years the one thing they were wildly successful in doing was convincing non-elites that unions were the problem.
Many intelligent people on this website talk about the false left/right paradigm being used to divide and obfuscate. Why can you not recognize the similarities h
"Yes."
! YES !
tekhneek, I hope that is indeed your picture, because you are rather hot in that coy come hither way.
Clearly the solution to our economic woes is to bust unions and pay firefighters, police and teachers less.