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Art Cashin Explains What Happens To Those Who Stop Looking For Work

Tyler Durden's picture





 

While the government propaganda machine chugs along and tells us to move along, there is nothing to see in the plunging labor participation rate, it is just 50 year olds pulling a Greek and retiring (fully intent on milking those 0.001% interest checking accounts, CDs and 3 Year Treasury Bonds for all they are worth - they are after all called fixed "income" not "outcome") there is more than meets the eye here. Yet while we will happily debunk any and all stupidity that Americans actually have the wherewithal to retire in droves as we are meant to believe (with the oldest labor segment's participation rate surging to multi-decade highs), there is a distinct subset of the population that migrates from being a 99-week'er to moving to merely yet another government trough - disability. Art Cashin explains.

From UBS Financial Services

I’m Sick Of Being Unemployed - A couple of strange and rather disquieting reports circulated among the Friends of Fermentation yesterday. The topic was unemployment or, more specifically, where do those people go who have stopped looking for work. Their absence is credited with distorting the unemployment rate and making it lower than most expect or believe.

The reports I allude to, contended that many went on disability. In fact, they projected that nearly 25% of those not actively seeking a job had applied for, and been accepted, by disability - mostly Social Security.

One of the reports came from a site called SoberLook.com (a perfectly logical place for the Friends of Fermentation to be browsing). The Sober report quoted extensively from a report by JPMorgan. I was unable to locate the original JPM report but we’ll assume that Sober quoted from it correctly. Anyway, here’s a bit from SoberLook:

But how does one survive after losing the unemployment benefits? Clearly people struggle. One way to pay the bills however is to file for and receive the federal disability benefits - assuming of course one has a disability. Interestingly enough, the Great Recession and the slow recovery somehow generated many more disability recipients.

 

JPMorgan: As of January over 8.5 million individuals were receiving federal disability payments (an additional 2 million spouses and children of disabled workers also received disability payments). Since the onset of the recession and the subsequent slow recovery, this figure has accelerated and grown faster than the overall size of the potential labor force— currently 5.3% of the population aged 25-64 is on federal disability, up from 4.5% when the recession began.

The Sober report then goes on to look at the makeup and maladies of those going on disability:

JPMorgan points out that increases in the number of disability benefits recipients account for about a quarter of the decline in employment participation. Furthermore during recessions the number of new disability claims actually increases, even though the number of jobs with higher injury incidence (such as construction) generally declines. Try explaining that one... Half of the benefit recipients suffer from "mental disorders" and "musculoskeletal disorders" (such as back pain). "Mood disorders" alone account for over 10% of this group. And once someone starts receiving these benefits, it's almost impossible to take the off the program. In 2011 only 1% of the recipients lost their benefits because they were no longer deemed disabled. So how much is this program costing the US taxpayer? Apparently quite a bit.

 

JPMorgan: The cost to the federal budget of these programs has escalated along with the number of claimants, and now runs around $200 billion per year—more than the budgets of the Departments of Commerce, Energy, Homeland Security, Interior, Justice, and State combined.

 

Thus a quarter of people who drop out of the workforce and come off the unemployment benefits, simply move to receiving disability payments. And most stay there until they roll into the social security program when they retire - from their disability. The same source, a different program.

The other article on the disability phenomenon was authored by Robert Samuelson and carried by Real Clear Politics. It quoted extensively from a paper by David Autor of MIT. They cite a similar relationship of rising unemployment to rising disability application.

Autor attributes disability's expansion mainly to liberalized, more subjective eligibility rules and to a deteriorating job market for less-educated workers. Through the 1970s, strokes, heart attacks and cancer were major causes. Now, mental problems (depression, personality disorder) and musculoskeletal ailments (back pain, joint stress) dominate (54 percent of awards in 2009, nearly double 1981's 28 percent). The paradox is plain. As physically grueling construction and factory jobs have shrunk, disability awards have gone up.

 

For many recipients, the disability program is a form of long-term unemployment insurance, argue Autor and his frequent collaborator Mark Duggan of the University of Pennsylvania. Benefit applications surge when joblessness rises. From 2001 to 2010, annual applications jumped 123 percent to 2.9 million. On average, recipients start receiving payments at age 49 and keep them until 66, when they switch to Social Security's retiree benefits.

 

Superficially, the case for overhaul seems overwhelming. Tougher eligibility standards would protect the genuinely disabled but limit benefits for others. Don't hold your breath. For starters, any crackdown could become a public-relations disaster. It might seem gratuitously cruel. Many recipients command sympathy. With low skills, their jobs prospects are poor. "People are driven into the program by desperation," says Autor. Nor are they rolling in money; the average payment is about $14,000 a year.

Another, rather familiar relationship showed up a bit later in the article:

Lawyers would also resist big changes. The Social Security Administration initially rejects about two-thirds of applications, but about half of these are appealed by lawyers and other professional advocates before administrative law judges, where the approval rate is between 60 percent and 75 percent. In a series of well-reported stories, The Wall Street Journal's Damian Paletta showed that the system is open to abuse. But it's also lucrative. Lawyers and other advocates are entitled to 25 percent of back benefits up to $6,000 per case. Their total payments approach $1.5 billion annually.

 

The larger budget quagmire now comes into focus. What the federal government does is so vast that it suffocates informed debate and political control. The built-in bias for the status quo reflects the reality that the various parts of government are understood, defended and changed mainly by those who benefit from their existence. However strong the case for revision (and it is powerful here), it is tempered by political inertia. What's sacrificed is the broader public good. The quagmire is of our own making.

So, when your unemployment benefits are running out and no potential jobs are visible, it’s almost natural to look in the mirror and wonder why you aren’t feeling good…..er…..make that well (sorry, Sister).

 


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Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:09 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

Ben must be sweating his bald head off today fighting this selloff. No lunch today. Get in there and buy! Market.....must....go...positive.....!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:16 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

My tummy hurts

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:24 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

My post was not a joke!  State worker, whose Mom is a State Representative, out on disability because of a stomach ache trying to get back  $2500 bucks she put down for a personal trainer. 

http://www.courant.com/business/custom/consumer/hc-bottom-line-healthtrax-20111231,0,6810045.column

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:43 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

i wonder what the racial breakdown is on SSI...oh wait, no i don't.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment ratso
ratso's picture

All the SSI recipients I know are white middle class men and women who are playing golf and tennis in between trips to the bank.  They include cops, firemen attorneys and business owners.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Agree. Race aside, I've yet to meet anyone on "disability" who was substantially disabled in any way. Just another debt-financed, vote-buying socialist racket. "Only" 14Gs a year? Add on the medicaid, food cards, Sec 8 and 900 other ways of working the system...just now adding free contraceptives...and this crowd lives quite comfortably.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:04 | Link to Comment CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Guess what, sports fans.  The LPR of previous norms was the basis of all baseline budget projections. 

Well, not only is the 2% cut in labor participation rate going to translate into no taxes paid by these ppl, they are also going to draw 14K/yr.  Double slam.

ALL FISCAL BUDGET PROJECTIONS JUST BECAME MUCH WORSE.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:37 | Link to Comment fnordfnordfnord
fnordfnordfnord's picture

Wait, you're opposed to "free contraceptives" for the welfare niggers? Are you just a babbling automaton, or does the shit you're spewing appear logical through your eyes?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

DO NOT confuse SSI with SSdI (Disability)

SSI is a even harder program with less money given to those who are disabled through no fault of their own. Blindness, Deafness and Birth Defects etc. I consider that a compassionate act on our Government to take care of these people who probably will not enjoy the fullest freedom we enjoy.

And that includes mental retardation (Sorry I aint politically correct and don't care) and those injured and need a guardian appointed to manage and make decisions for them.

And Trav, dont even bring up race. It strikes across the board.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:18 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

If race is a factor by minority advocacy groups or political parties who give assistance to special groups on how funds are allocated, then race is relevant; discrimination cuts both ways. Race is an extremely timely topic, especially when race is a deciding factor for the transfer of private property (income) from one group of citizens to another. How dare the government say we can’t talk about it!.

And, according to the Social Security Law Attorney website,”the designation of the SSI program as ‘High Risk’ by the General Accounting Office (GAO) is well deserved” when it comes to fraud. 

For instance, “In 1994, GAO reported that after years of rapid growth, an estimated 250,000 Americans were getting disability checks due to drug addiction or alcoholism.

“The government is literally paying people to drink themselves to death.  Hence, in 1996, SSA ended the drug addicts and alcoholics part of the program and used some of the savings for more drug treatment where it might help individuals overcome their addictions.”

Also, “the SSA has identified a general increase in the amount of annual overpayments made to (1) individuals who are found to have violated program residency requirements or to (2) recipients who leave the United States and live outside the country for more than 30 consecutive days without informing the SSA.”

Yet:  “Despite these tremendous strides, however, GAO will testify that SSI remains on its list of programs at high risk of waste, fraud and abuse.”

http://www.socialsecuritylawattorney.com/Fraud.html

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

So, they haven't figured out the 26 year olds on SSI, that come in to the ER with Medicare and Medicaid for a sore throat, and roofing tar all over their hands?

Or do they not have a problem with that, because I certainly do.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:45 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

A government in business to ruthlessly exploit its most productive and responsible into poverty, seldom sees a financial fraud it doesn’t like.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 04:48 | Link to Comment drunkenlout
drunkenlout's picture

SSI is Supplemental

Security Income, largely for people who were disabled from birth.  Had they become working adults, they would get SSDI.  

There is huge fraud within the SSI popualation, but that comes from healthcare providers who deliver entitlement services to the SSI population, not from the recipients.  Here's an example of thow that happens: a doctor is the resident physician of an Intermediate Care Facility for Develpmentally Disabled, a form of long-term care.  The Doc goes there one day each month, walks through the facility, and has a nurse record his comments on each resident.   Medicaid is billed the applicable rate.  The doc leaves in a short period of time.   If any resident is really ill, staff call the doc and initiate a new set of charges.

One reason we can't scale back costs to a reasonable level is that we're confused about which program is involved, and about how we are swindled in each.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:21 | Link to Comment midtowng
midtowng's picture

I should point out that the largest percentage of those missing from the labor force are those who never had a chance to enter it: high school and college graduates who can't find any job.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 05:05 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Which is a damning indictment of the public Education System...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Manthong
Manthong's picture

"Ben must be sweating his bald head off today fighting this selloff. No lunch today. Get in there and buy! Market.....must....go...positive.....!"

                                        Reptiles don't sweat.

                                        ..another PPT end of day no vol pump in progress.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:06 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

And paper bug Joe Weisenthal Tweets about wondering how many times a bear dick has been cut off in these late day rallies.  I don't like that man.  Thank aqua buddah I don't play in the pape rmarket.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

OOOOOH... It's my arm... It's BROKEN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_wy8ebqKbA

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Cpl Hicks
Cpl Hicks's picture

Let's see...Rodney D in Caddyshack...and I didn't even peek at the video.

Was I right?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:18 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

TRAV you dont get out to middle america too much i see.....

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Why, he can't even keep his racism coherent!

Apparently, unemployed people have jobs to become disabled from.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 00:52 | Link to Comment Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

We know lots of poeple in N. Utah collecting disability.  If you think most people in N. Utah are not white, think again. 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:27 | Link to Comment VanillAnalyst
VanillAnalyst's picture

This study is glass half empty. Don't think of the 1 in 4 unemployed people who go on disability, think of the 3 out of 4 unemployed people who don't suffer from depression!

 

.....or perhaps they just don't realize how disabled someone would have to be, to be unemployed

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:31 | Link to Comment TheGoodDoctor
TheGoodDoctor's picture

It's the unintended consequences of the Health Care Industrial Complex and the Banking Industrial Complex.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:41 | Link to Comment GernB
GernB's picture

Are you saying all these complexes could give you a complex.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 05:09 | Link to Comment merizobeach
merizobeach's picture

L. Ron Hubbard said 'yes'.  Prolific novelist, that guy.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:50 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Maybe intended?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

depression=REALITY

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Listen, I don't care if the glass is half-full or half-empty as long as it is whiskey in the glass we are speaking of.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:49 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I keep telling people that depression is NOT a disease, but a coping strategy. As fucked up as everything is, you should be depressed, otherwise, you're likely delusional, and thus, are adding to the overall fucked-upness of society.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:22 | Link to Comment ProtectiveFather
ProtectiveFather's picture

I can see the argument that depression is a normal reaction to bad circumstances, but how does depression help you cope?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:10 | Link to Comment Errol
Errol's picture

Evolutionary Biologists have theorized that depression evolved to prevent people from wasting energy via multiple repetition of activities that failed to be productive (for most of human history, people had a problem with getting enough calories, rather than eating too many).

As an ironic aside, right now my ZH screen includes an ad for expert assistance in getting your disability claim approved...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:56 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

I keep telling people that depression is NOT a disease, but a coping strategy.

There is depression and "clinical depression". The two of them are not the same and if you think they are then hundreds of thousands of experts would disagree with you. But hey, what do you expect in a country where the population is paranoid about fluoride, vaccinations, gay marriage, free contraceptives and evolution, not necessarily in that order.

http://uhs.berkeley.edu/lookforthesigns/depressionsuicide.shtml

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 01:17 | Link to Comment Gold Dog
Gold Dog's picture

Ear ache, my eye!

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 05:08 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Eye ache, my ear!

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

I'm sleepy, I should eat.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:40 | Link to Comment GernB
GernB's picture

Yes ES is down a whopping 0.67% percent. If we can just keep this rally going like it has since the start of the year the S&P should make 1900 before the end of the year. Then equities will be fairly valued.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment illyia
illyia's picture

Right on schedule. Chart is ... fill in with your own expletive (amazingly obvious, hilarious, sick, etc.)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:35 | Link to Comment AllAboutTheBenjamins
AllAboutTheBenjamins's picture

the sweat makes his bald head so nice and shiny though

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:26 | Link to Comment emunah73
emunah73's picture

USA is a really funny country. Or better word maybe - surreal. You can get disability because of personalitiy disorder and depression?? Unless it's restricted to trully disabilitating clinical depression that demands hospitalization and heavy medication or severe personality disorder it's totally strange to me.

Half of the Wall Street could go on disability then as antisocial and narcissistic personality disorder is so common there, so yes, it looks like they have still something up their sleeves :D

But seriously - the article doesn't make it clear - looks like the eligibility is very stretched.

What about remaining 75%? I guess they just work off the books :D

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:42 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

You better not claim mental disorder. If you do, you just written off your own right to bear arms and other freedoms.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:46 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

I see these people in the ER all the time, it drives me crazy.  I keep threatening to write a book and title it: "It Only Hurts When I Work".  People on disability for anxiety, depression, back pain, because they look funny, etc.  The Gubmit just raised the allotment to $1800/month, up from $1200, I believe.  Plus food stamps, medicaid, welfare, it starts to add up.  Why go to work when you can make as much as a FT minimum wage job and get benefits?  Welfare state needs to stop, they are crowding up my emergency department.  God forbid you have a real emergency when all the entitlement people are making their weekly visit.  This does not include all the people who are coming to the ED several times to get a "track record" established to support their disability claim.  Just to let you know in advance, No, I will not fill out the disability certification for you.   

I had a lady come in who was depressed and suicidal, brought her 13 year old daughter with her.  The woman kept carrying on right in front of the girl (if you were wondering where and how they learn this behavior) and so I asked her if living for her daughter was something to hold on to.  Her reply?  "No, she can have my SSI disability"  The entitlement attitude is so entrenched that the disabled poor are considering their benefits as family property that can be given to the heirs.  The system has to collapse and flush out all these people, disability is robbing them of their dignity and they are teaching their children that it doesn't matter.  

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:32 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

What of the truly disabled with families unable/willing to care for them? Social Darwinism? Or are you going to use the RP faint that charity can do it just like in the old days ... the old days when the vast majority of people were church going and health care costs were negligible. For better or for worse, those days are gone and we need different solutions.

The welfare state doesn't need to stop, it just needs to be less cushy and stop handing out money. Money is freedom, the best impetus to get people back to work is to remove most of their freedom (also making sure there actually are jobs available of course, which in the case of the disabled probably needs per employee subsidies).

Just give people who initially go on welfare food stamps, the ability to purchase necessities on request, direct payments for rent/mortgage and health care. Live too long on welfare and you force them to move to the cheapest housing available. Break the rules and you lose the right to privacy and to use electricity for non essentials. Etc.

Welfare runs the gamut from handing out money to all takers and poorhouses ... just because the system went too far in one direction is a poor excuse to just throw it on the bonfire entirely and go for social Darwinism (which is the reality of what would happen today without social safety nets).

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:51 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Sorry, no, it has to be dismantled.  It has been corrupted by the politicians and is unsalvageable.  My friend worked in an occupational health position with the state of Kentucky.  He was asked to resign by the administrative director after six months, seems that their budget is tied to the number of people they enroll and service on the disability rolls.  My friend turned down most of the applications and the district budget was cut, they had to lay off people.  Admin traced it back to him and told him to start approving applications or find another job.  He left.  It is a perpetual motion machine that feeds on itself, creates more government jobs and keeps local politicians in office, funded by the disability lawyers who charge $4k per person to "shepherd" a disability claim through the system.

I truly feel for the people who are disabled and are in need of SSI. Welfare and food stamps should have a defined benefit, perhaps 5 years max.  Only short term fix that makes sense to me is that everyone should have to reapply for disability every 3 years, show proof of continued disability and go through the entire process again.  A third party independent evaluation that is required with private disability insurance claims would be adequate, but no way the local government entities would cede control of that to a vendor with their budget on the line.  

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:13 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

What toss ... government has been corrupted entirely and at this point most property has been gained through gaming it ... so should we just go for complete anarchy?

"Welfare and food stamps should have a defined benefit, perhaps 5 years max."

What if there is simply no living wage employment to be had?

You haven't thought your third party evaluation through BTW. There is no way to create a financial incentive for such a third party to judge eligibility any better than a government agency (and they will always judge according to their financial incentive, that's what you rely on when privatizing ... or at least what you should rely on). They will want to grow their budget just as much and judges will still be the final gatekeeper, nothing much would change except that the wage distribution would become more top heavy at the third party compared to the government agency.

The only solution is good governance ... there is never an alternative, only fairy tale lies which lead to Somalia.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:24 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

I have been to several countries were there is no welfare and the world does not stop spinning on it's axis if the government is not there to pay people not to work.  People who cannot work have to rely on family, friends and NonGSO around them for help.  It used to be that way in the US as well.  The creation of a welfare state is one of the harbingers of the decline of a nation and their quality of life.  It is similar to leaving the gold standard, every country that has tried it has failed.  I don't know what to tell you, I am all in favor of people in need receiving aid.  The government has done a poor job of mananging SSI from the very beginning because it quickly became an entitlement used to buy votes and favors, not a safety net to protect those who were injured while working.  Hell, I'm a doctor and get paid nothing for about half of the patients I see.  If that was the defining factor in my career then I would have moved on to something else long ago, bankers and dentists have much better hours.  People need to work, need the stability and dignity working provides.  Trapping people into disability and inactivity just above the poverty level is a fool's existence and locks them into being dependent on the government.  What will they do when the checks stop coming?  

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 11:36 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

The US has had welfare since before the civil war ... the US started to decline ~50 years after it started according to you. Welfare isn't the problem ... governance is.

Peak oil and the rise of wealth inequality set in the decline of the US, not welfare.

As for what will happen if you let people starve in communities unwilling and/or unable to support them (the US is no longer a christian agrarian nation, this is the time of cities egoism and prosperity theology). Mad Max.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 05:15 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." - James Madison

"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." - James Madison

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

@jekyll island,

I hear ya loud and clear.  A neighbor of ours (here in LA County) moved in down the street and was surprisingly vocal about how she was receiving *extra* money from the gov't on top of her standard welfare checks because she had her kids diagnosed with ADHD and "clinically required medication" for it.  Then she put them into our local school district and their staff refused to place them in special-ed classes because they said the kids were normal.  Well, the school's declaration of "normal" removed the kids' eligibility for the state-funded drug payments (the kids hated taking the drugs, anyway), which pissed the mom off because her income was reduced.

So what did she do?  She took them in to a Medi-Cal sponsored psychiatric counselor and told stories (lies, as we later discovered) about how the kids were traumatized with the world around them.  The counselor not only re-instated the ADHD declaration, but added "Oppositional Defiant Disorder", which is an eyebrow-raising way of saying they sometimes didn't like being told to eat their veggies and go to bed on time.  With TWO disorders now officially declared and filed, the woman now gets even MORE money from the gov't.

Yikes.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:10 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Hacked, 

Preaching to the choir, unfortunately.  There is too much fraud in the system that is sanctioned by the government to ever hope for meaningful reform.  Marco's point is valid, what about the people who truly need disability?  They are the ones who are going to be hurt the most.  

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:15 | Link to Comment Magat Guru
Magat Guru's picture

Social Darwinism is a cute name for being in denial that your number could come up any time. Just keep whistling past the graveyard, baby. It's full of former Social Darwinists that are now singing a different tune:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgjN0vyf9e4&feature=fvsr

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 23:05 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

1200? to [b]1800[/b]??

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 00:12 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

1800/month, up from 1200/month.  This is from a source in the industry, I have not confirmed the amount yet.  

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 03:07 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I have a source myself, I will also check. Maybe between both of us we will see what's what.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:26 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

He most definitely is fighting the sell off we've had these few days and last week.  Obama doesn't want anything drastically done before the November elections, which won't work because for one it didn't work back in 2008 and they had world ending scenarios needing voted on 1 month before the election.  And two, anything done will definitely tip the election to the other party and that is why Obama is saying no to Bernanke and yes to printing, because any fiscal change or hard belt tightening before an election would be cannon fodder to his political enemies.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:13 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The few I know have been able find work getting "stuff" for me that I typically don't find in any store where you would pay taxes.  Dare I say black markets bitchez?  As to the other "issues" with the exponentially growing dependence on social programs - time to cull the fucking herd. 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:18 | Link to Comment DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Yeah, that works for a time LOP.

Until another set of blackmarketeers smash into your car for the GPS or kick in your door for your flat screen,

or maybe even cut your throat for your i-thing.

WGACA  .

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:25 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Oh wah wah wah.  Chance favors the prepared mind.  Just like in any business, the better prepared providers will survive.  At the very least you still have a truly free market.  If this is a problem for someone, they were not properly prepared, fuck'em.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:42 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

If my door comes down, that 12 gauge will be talking.

Never mind my house, I aint got shit. I am running off digital Tee vee on a 12 year old boob tube.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:44 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh?  that type of crime quickly gets limited to favelas and some random background noise.

Yes, people still live in Rio and Buenos Aires.  You don't leave a GPS in the fkin car unless ur stupid. 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

I've said it before and it's pissed off a lot of my liberal friends:

Those who are consistently and habitually dependant upon gov't assistance like the one's mentioned in this article must lose their right to vote as a citizen until they prove they can contribute to society. 

Simply put, there is too much of a conflict of interest if someone who is running for office is going to go out campaigning to rob Paul to pay Peter.

You have to have skin in the game, and if its anything the Vietnam draft taught us, was that everyone pays complete attention when they are forced to put skin in the game. 

You can't be a 100% taker and expect to have your cake and eat it too. I'm fed up with this. It's completely demoralizing.  

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

I've always thought anyone on welfare shouldn't be allowed to vote. It's sort of like having your unemployed worthless brother-in-law who sleeps on your couch and eats your food having a say in what color you should paint your house.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:29 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

The only "say" he would have is as to what kind of fucking brush he wants to operate.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:55 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

Excellent.

Outsource the work.

Infest the government.

Invade countries.

Destroy Constitutional protections.

Pull the rug out from women and children.

Blame the victim.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:10 | Link to Comment mind_imminst
mind_imminst's picture

Not all of them are victims. I have peronally met plenty of people that are gaming/robbing the system.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:29 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

There are plenty of people paying taxes that are gaming/robbing the system as well, which have a hell of a lot more political power than the poor.

Power they would retain without buying votes, the poor don't vote much any way ...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:36 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

I understand and agree with your feelings Larry Dallas but the fact is that going on welfare or disability doesn't make you less of a US citizen - unless of course, you are not. The Constitution is the Constitution, until of course, the Supreme Court says its not. But since we're talking about voting and new laws, I would like to see it mandatory that every adult over 21 vote in every election or be penalized with the equivalent of a traffic ticket ( or a deduction from your welfare/disability/social security payment) and I would also like to have every election for office include a 'none of the above' option which, if a plurality chose that option, would cause the election to be re-run with none of the previous candidates allowed to participate.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:56 | Link to Comment donsluck
donsluck's picture

I believe it was illegal not to vote in the USSR. Not voting is a crucial freedom.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

*runs off to find citation*

Saddam had really good election results too, if I recall.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:23 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Why they're all bastions of freedom!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_voting

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

At least 6 of them are in the G20. That is, six of the twenty largest economies in the world. You might not think they are bastions of freedom and conversely I suspect they might think the enduring duality of the US political system is also not representative of freedom.

I read your biography entry with interest and good for you for having something on it, it's very rare. Your reference to apathy is, I believe, the reason why nations have compulsory voting. 

Personally I'm undecided on the matter (UK) ;O)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:11 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Jeez aren't things bad enough already? Do you really want everyone forced to vote whether they know anything or not?

How about all voters take an intelligence test before being allowed to cast a ballot?

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 11:41 | Link to Comment CutterJeff
CutterJeff's picture

The issue is they're not less of a US Citizen...

... the issue is "Conflict of Interest"

 

How would you feel about Judge Smith handling "You vs Mrs. Judge Smith" ?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:53 | Link to Comment 10mm
10mm's picture

Your vote is worth shit.Tell ya what,you can have mine.And im working.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment fnordfnordfnord
fnordfnordfnord's picture

Maybe, so long as retirees aren't allowed to vote either.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:17 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I had to downvote you for believing that there's any value in the "right to vote." Statism, along with the act of voting you see, is itself a disease, not any kind of a cure. You are the one "consistently and habitually dependent upon gov't assistance," as you demand they create a whole world to your liking, rather than realize they'll steal yours instead to make their own.

"Your" government (if it ever existed) was stolen lock, stock and barrel by a bankster coup way back in 1913.

I'd make the "I voted for Kodos" reference (yet again), but you sound old, and likely wouldn't know it.

Just remember, every vote you make further enslaves you to a criminal cartel. Good luck with that come November!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:19 | Link to Comment jekyll island
jekyll island's picture

Larry, 

Interesting point, but disenfranchisement is a step backward.  I feel your pain, believe me.  Let's modify your proposal a little: Everyone receiving Welfare must undergo random drug testing four times a year.  Fail a drug test, you are ineligible to receive assistance.  Ever.  

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 01:14 | Link to Comment Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Great idea.  Expand the fucking war on drugs.  One welfare program for another.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment fnordfnordfnord
fnordfnordfnord's picture

More drug war, great idea. What are you smoking?

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 11:39 | Link to Comment CutterJeff
CutterJeff's picture

I've always said you should get one vote per Log10 of taxes you pay.

Pay $0-9 , or get bennies that exceed payments: no vote

Pay $10-99 : 1 vote

Pay $100-999: 2 votes

Pay $1000-9999 : 3 votes

Pay $10k-99k : 4 votes

 

Yes, it means really rich people can get, oh, maybe 8 votes.

On the other hand, they're currently spending bunches on sundry campaign contributions, PACS, etc, and are getting more representation anyway so this isn't going to mess things up too much.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:22 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

LawsofPhysics

"The few I know have been able find work getting "stuff" for me that I typically don't find in any store where you would pay taxes."

Ever see the episode of the Shield with the guy who hired elderly women to make porn which he starred in wearing a Nixon mask?

His films were called Dick in Granny.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:12 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

Tummy ache they just can't find?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:43 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

They will probably find it soon enough later in the ER when they have a full bowel.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:14 | Link to Comment Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

The entire country is turning into Detroit.

Can you imagine the chaos when this Ponzi scheme finally detonates? Those "kooks" with guns and pork-n-beans don't look so crazy after all, they are actually the smartest people around!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:23 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"The entire country is turning into Detroit."

Haha...

It's been hard to crawl out of the blues today. For whatever reason (dark humor?) that statement managed a chuckle. Thank you.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:44 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

No no no...

Detroit is SPECIAL. You have to either been a trucker to see it or actually lived and moved from there.

Compared to fucking Detroit, the rest of the USA is a frigging Paradise.

Then there is Gary Indiana... if they aint cleaned that place up yet.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

um...no.  Pittsburgh is doing just fine.  Seems like demographics matter more than the rest of this crap.

Fuckin iceland just collapsed its currency and life there is...clean, orderly, and pretty serene.  Yeah, it's not a party a minute with Range Rovers everywhere anymore but wtf, huh?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Minus the riots they had indeed.

Iceland is doing well after the massive heist they performed on their fellows.

They were allowed to get away with it though.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:34 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Iceland Ethnic groups

93% very white people

7% other (types of mostly white people)

Homogeneity apparently has value, no?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment ffart
ffart's picture

Default isn't theft, any contract or agreement can be defaulted on. More like a bunch of asshole bankers print up money at no cost to them, loan it out to people and threaten them with punative measures if they don't pay them back with interest. The mafia must be fuming at their business model.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:44 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I will concede Pittsburgh is pretty good despite the loss of Steel. But I contend you need to be careful even there, the People are big hearted but pretty tough.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:02 | Link to Comment CoolBeans
CoolBeans's picture

Saw a report recently on Detroit -- police are overwhelmed.  More private security and such.  Very scary.

Me?  I'm not all that into beans.  Not one you'd find on the Prepper TV show -- but I have children depending on me in case the SHTF....so yes, I prep a bit.  Not many beans (ugh) - decent food, water, snacks....

Like many people - I'm just following a bad feeling I've had for a while.  I think anyone who doesn't maintain supplies for at least a month nowadays is risking some sad times.  Seriously - don't you feel it, too?

OK, maybe it's just going to be SO BAD that all the prepping in the world won't matter --- but at least I have tried.  My spouse wasn't feeling in until the past 6-8 months or so -- now is on board.

Be careful out there - the world is turning into an interesting place.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:06 | Link to Comment seek
seek's picture

Month?

Seriously, supplies for months to a year or more are in order. If any friends ask, I say 3 months minimum, and for anyone I care about, I've already bought a year+ for them and have had them hide it well.

When this goes down it'll easily be a couple months of pseudo-government pillaging trying to keep things going when they have no cash. The logistics of keeping 300 million fed and the lights on in a currency collapse are pretty daunting specifically because most people aren't poor by african standards, and they will definitely notice when they are.

Nothing will change much for people in detroit (though food deliveries will be an issue) but imagine someplace like NY, Chicago, Boston, LA without gas or diesel trucks bringing food. You know all levels of government are going to be running around taking anything they can to keep things moving, and that gap between the taking and the reforming of a monetary/supply system is where things will get insanely bad. When Argentina went south, it was bad, but the fall wasn't much for most people. In the US it will be huge.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:38 | Link to Comment WolfePaq
WolfePaq's picture

"may you live in interesting times" has never been so appropriate as now...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Fucking hard to get on SS these days. First application is usually denied right off the bat. Year later you may get a hearing after they run you through the battery of tests.

Those hearing judges have their own agendas and can be quite the assholes. Plus you can't file a complaint against them for say bias.

They are worse than ticks dug in for life.

I imagine most of those people are on welfare and have signed a lien against their homes.

Eventually the state will have a shit load of property on their hands because most of those people ain't paying off the lien.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I don't know about the liens. That would be the one thing they will not do.

The Judges job is simple. Weed out the abusers and riders from the genuinely disabled.

I suppose if you had that job, you might feel like you have been watching too many Judge Joe Brown shows and get cranky yourself.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:03 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

HungrySeagull

How does an elderly homeowner pay off a lien to Social Services?

If the kids wind up selling the house fatre a parent passes, then the state gets their cut. No kids, state owns the house.

Those judges are political beasts just like politicians except they cant be recalled or even voted in. They carry the same biases as everyone else.

The real trick is a SSD attorney establishes a raport with a judge. That attorney then carries more credence with that judge. Cases then assume more merit than severely disabled Joe who tries to bring a claim himself and save the quarter due an attorney. Attorneys are also the first guaranteed payment.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Learn something today, thanks!

Oh, and I was the sole heir of my grandparent's home. However it was sold and it's money carefully managed to take care of parent for 8 years.

Well done I say. Even though we broke even after probate got finished.

I just was not ready to be a full blown home owner at 19 years old while still flipping burgers. UGH...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:17 | Link to Comment Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

What the federal government does is so vast that it suffocates informed debate and political control.

 

So the government being the largest employer, consumer, landlord, tenant, lender, borrower et al  is not such a good idea afterall?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

In Soviet Russia, connections matter.  You get shit doled by the State...which is, yeah, JUST LIKE a feudal system.

This is the joke that the drugged up baby boomers didn't get...feudalism is extreme socialism.

With racial orthodoxy being what it is in the USA, you have a fast track to utter destruction waiting.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

trav7777

Dude connections have always mattered in the US as well.

Nothing new in that.


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:59 | Link to Comment Marco
Marco's picture

The REAL joke is that feudalism is completely compatible with both socialism and capitalism.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:17 | Link to Comment Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

we have systems of maintaining people so they dont go nuclear - pure and simple - there is a tug of war going on and the 1% controls the rules -  this is chump change for them -for peace and quiet while they loot and extract

only real solution is a national  industrial policy and a complete redo of the WTO and GATT participation for "only" those countries that have comparable wage rates / regulations / and work rules so there is no slavery (read foxconn)- today -  no way to ever meet $22 per day 10 hour day / 6 day week - obama new subsidy program is a joke

then you can trade - otherwise under the present circumstances we dont need 160 million people within a very short time  - not just blue collar but white collar including doctors and lawyers - without transactions lawyers dont have contract hours  - litigation runs out - docs need insurance payments  - if they are taken out -  they are off the air in big numbers  as well

system was virtuous - disposable income creates rich service sector which is now going to implode as well without it

the wheel could spin on its own forever and they intentionally broke the perpetual wheel

take the cost inflation as the devils trade for jobs USA

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:17 | Link to Comment azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

A lot of handy man types running around doing cash jobs no longer participating in the scam the government perpetrates. Fuck 'em all but 6 Save the pallbearers

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

And a few others who are making do with what they have as a offering no money taken.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:18 | Link to Comment yogibear
yogibear's picture

With ever more jobs being outsourced overseas or taken by H1Bs the government keeps the population happy by letting them live off the government tit. More Food Stamps, welfare and Social Security Disability for everyone.  Both industry and the government are turning their backs on highly educated and overly qualified Americans. 

Kids in school are discouraged from being scientist or being productive because of global wage arbitration. Causing gollege grads to be burdoned with heavy schhool debt and lower wages if they can find a job.

Much of the US government's stimulus is being used to build up wealth and jobs overseas. The US government gets more debt and overseas products as a result.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:33 | Link to Comment unnamed enemy
unnamed enemy's picture

when it comes to outsourcing and H1Bs - the corporate masters of the universe are entirely responsible. they know that by hiring a us worker they can make 30% profit, but by hiring a chinese worker their profit will be 50% so because of their greed, jobs get outsourced. 

then when smeone brings up taxation - they respond by: well how much tax is enough? 30% 40% but nobody asks the question how much profit is enough?

if you think people overseas are building up wealth you need to do some thinking - the only people building up wealth are the 1%ers and they are truly citizens (owners) of the world.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:20 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Hey look its all good, see! Pretty soon we'll all just get a Gubment disability check to live on, VOILA problem solved!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment tickhound
tickhound's picture

As soon as they lower the barrier to entry to include things like depression / anxiety.  Wouldn't shock me.   

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I hope they dont do that.

That is what Bars and taverns are for...

now in the dry counties...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:48 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

No it does not solve the problem.

14 thousand or whatever minus your Medicare and medicine payments will limit you to a special place in hell when you realize that McDonalds is no longer in your world.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

But wait a minute... I heard that everybody on welfare has a free house, a free SUV, free fuel, free mobiles, free food, loads of cigs and alcohol, an ipad, free healthcare and a huge TV and full cable package. You mean it's not true?

The same myth persists in the UK where all Daily Telegraph readers think the poorest have the best quality of life in the country. The wealthy certainly have some bizarre ideas.

My contribution to sorting out the disability issue is get lawyers out of the system completely, they surely are amongst the worlds biggest parasites.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:20 | Link to Comment rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I already went thru this. I'm now totally for the Black market.  I didn't apply for disability, even though I may actually qualify due to 35% 3rd degree burns and sever nerve neuropathy.  I applied 3x a few years ago after it happend, got denied everytime and was in a wheelchair for almost a fkn year.

Then I see my neighbor with a "bad back" take his fishing boat to the creek and haul it down a 50' steep embankment every other day and laughs it away all because his shit is on the "list" meanwhile i've done almost everything under the sun to get by excluding gay sex.

And although im totally not gay if someone offered me 1 million cash id glady lose my anal virginity.  Truth be told im pretty sure a lot of guys would lmfao.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

lol +1

hope you get ya shit sorted out rsnoble

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:49 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

most guys are closet homo whores then...and you're all welcome to it

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 23:04 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Hey Trav, I remember you admitting that you like to poke assholes. That makes you a closet homo user in my book! Lady boys and all that ;O)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Reapply and keep applying until you get your Hearing. It might take two years...

When you pull your shirt up and show the Judge in that room the amount of damage you have.... You will get that and all the back pay due you.

Persistence is key.

Oh turn in your fishing man neighbor if he is abusing the system.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Yeah pulling my shirt up would probably get me kicked out of the courtroom. LOL. Actually the tops of my hands got fried and my right forearm looks like a turkey leg. No kidding. It's a pretty screwed up disability. I can bench 300lbs for reps but I can't separate papers, zip up my own pants without a mirror etc. Yeah you see me typing. Trust me....I can't even pick my nose without stabbing my eye out lol. I sure's the fuck learned how to open a beer bottle though.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:24 | Link to Comment mkkby
mkkby's picture

Video tape how "disabled" he is, then demand 1/2 each of his checks -- or else.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:21 | Link to Comment Clayton Bigsby
Clayton Bigsby's picture

My favorite irony is the "Disability Lawyer" display ads I'm seeing on this page as I'm reading the post - that rules...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

And the tv advertising.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Google knows all.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:47 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Not anymore they dont.

Duckduckgo with removal of the top Google ranked engines and such from your machine will ensure it.

Yes your ISP will retain the search activity for LEO's should they wish to subpoena it... but. *Shrugs.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:21 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

With all this idle time, GILF websites should see a lot of traffic soon

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:25 | Link to Comment Banksters
Banksters's picture

Our society is about maintaining the debt slave/master relationship.    If it weren't, we'd live in a completely different world.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:25 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I don't blame the people whose bodies or minds are broken by work but if there is anyone "Riding" the system, they will and should be found.

If they are not able to find work after 99 weeks that no one talks about anymore in MSM, then effectively they are bankrupt and qualify for SNAP, free cell phones and what have you.

At some point people do retire. Or are retired by the workplace determined to pay cheap young blood instead of the very large salary to a old man who has been in 40+ years with loyalty and skill.

Now on the other side of the coin, I have had contractors come do work on my home and some of the young folks will be the future contractors themselves some day.

The rest are in the Military who will take care of them well enough.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

There are lots of disabled people that want to work.  Many are very qualified for jobs that could adapt to them and cause a productivity jump pretty darn fast.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:50 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

to hell with them, hire diversity

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:23 | Link to Comment indianajohns04
indianajohns04's picture

TVIX to da moon

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:52 | Link to Comment cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

sorry....not today. the WHORES goosed longs again...as they are prone to do

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:25 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I know of at least five people who are taking advantage of disability benefits who are quite capable work. all of them say they have some kind of back pain or chronic pain it won't let them work.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:29 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

If they are truly in pain, you will see that they will not enjoy life as much as you are. They would be sitting near bottles of medicines and visiting doctors.

Now if they laugh and tell how they are using the "System" turn them in. It's that simple.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:36 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I know that they're taking advantage of the system. But I don't believe in to see something say something policy. I'll let them sort it out on their own it's their conscience. They have to live with themselves.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:12 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Social Security always had a system in place as does Unemployment.

I am not referring to the Snitch system that recently was imposed on all of us by the newly created DHS.

Since Bin Laden is dead ding dong... we should dismantle and retire that DHS.

But no. Like all things American, it's like crab grass and weed that sprouts everywhere.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:46 | Link to Comment NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

I don't sit near bottles of medication. That's why I take them, so I don't have to sit near them.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:57 | Link to Comment Stevious
Stevious's picture

Try it, you'll be ignored.

Let's look at the Pharmaking and nothing else.  A friend is on disability due to "mood disorder."  Subsidized rent (her place is nicer than mine), SNAP, subsizided electricity and heat, and then...free medical.  One day while visiting I noticed she had half a dozen boxes of Restasis (for dry eye syndrome which I have) on her kitchen table.  I said: "you have dry eye syndrome?" She answered: "Yes, but that stuff doesn't work for me."  "Oh," I responded, "then why to you have half a years supply?"

She said: "They just come in the mail, every month."  Consider: A month's supply cost ~$140, let's say that Medicare pays 1/2, or $70, so that's $840/year.  Now consider that restasis is plain 'ol Cyclosporine.  A month's supply bought from a Canadian pharmacy, by a leading drug manufacturer (who probably made the Restasis) costs about $25 a month or less.  So the "net profit" to someone buyng the Restais via Medicare is $600/year.  Now multiply this times her dozen other meds...  Get the point?  Welfare or disability....in many cases it's a profit machine...a huge one. 

We're as set in our ways and as corrupt as the Greek's are, and I fear that within 4 years we are going to meet the same fate.

 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Are you certain it is Years, rather than Months ????

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:49 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Shit. And my doctor keeps an very hard eye on meds if I need them, and not one day longer.

I have a trauma kit to take care of those who may live but no medicines worth a goddamn other than a bottle of Jack Daniels for them.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:27 | Link to Comment Mercury
Mercury's picture

Shit, what percentage of public sector employees don't retire in their 50's with a "disability"?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Or a private sector worker in a Utility who has been told that his position will be or is eliminated and has a choice. Retire and take pension or keep working pending termination with no pension.

That was valid for many who had pensions until those are removed from current employments due to the expense.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Being a government worker IS a disability....to the human race.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:45 | Link to Comment optimator
optimator's picture

The ones that retire in their 40's,

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Firemen and cops--damn if it don't seem like a majority retire in their early 50's with at least a partial disability on top of their retirement pay.

I know of 4 or 5 personally and they all got partial disabilities.          Milestones

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:28 | Link to Comment dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

This just emphasis the fact that we are well north of 50% of the population being dependent on some government handout. So... even if you had legitimate elections, it still wouldn't be enough.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

The Nation is getting older, no doubt. That too shall pass as they die off in the next 10 or 25 years or so. (Myself included)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:41 | Link to Comment roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

If you can't get medicine a lot of people die quick. There must be a brazillion Type2's for starters.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:51 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

that can go away if they are just underfed for a while.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

 

 

Moral Hazard.

The bailout of the banks and corporations, the non-prosecution of blatant theft (Mozillo, Corzine, etc.), the loss of individual rights, the rubber stamping of corporate financed elections and candidates, the insider trading and bribery ("lobbying") of CONgressional representatives, Crony Capitalism, privatized gains with socialized losses ad nauseum has led many formerly hard working, law-abiding, work ethic, proud Americans to say "fuck-it" and milk the corrupt system that they have worked to fund for 30+ years.

Moral Hazard.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:30 | Link to Comment HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

That could be true. And some said fuck it and bankrupted or walked away from house loans or even student loans.

Some are even saying fuck it to citizenship and now have to pay a fee to the State Department and IRS to do so.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

You have to pay to leave......ha!  Only in fucking America.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!