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Art Cashin Explains Why Obama Is "Terrified" By A European Collapse

Tyler Durden's picture


Confused why Tim Geithner has seemingly booked a weekly round trip ticket to Brussels to give the Eurocrats their weekly pep talk (much to his endless humiliation as Europe Tells Geithner To Take His Advice And Shove It reminds us)? Art Cashin explains not only this, but why the biggest threat to Obama's reelection chances is not who the GOP candidate is in November, but what happens in the EURUSD as early as today. Lastly, by implication, Cashin shoots down any hope that US decoupling from Europe is even remotely possible... something anyone who actually has seen a full business cycle, which automatically excludes 90% of all traders today, will know too well.

From Art Cashin

Wrong Solution. Wrong Time - Markets are celebrating (mildly) the Euro Summit “agreement”. We suspect Tim Geithner and the President are banging their heads against the wall.


The Euro leaders continue to plan and plot toward long range solutions, but they lack a crisis plan. In essence, they don’t have a fire department. If markets in the sovereign debt or European banks began to spiral out of control, they have no structure to deal with it.


We think the President is terrified, since - if Europe goes, it’s likely he goes too. The biggest threat to his re-election may be completely out of his control. Could be an interesting weekend at the White House.


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Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:42 | 1962656 Mugatu
Mugatu's picture

Geithner is a tool.  Next time send him there in a clown costume.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:44 | 1962670 achmachat
achmachat's picture

dude! if you send Geithner in a clown costume, people would actually notice him!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:52 | 1962712 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

"We think the President is terrified, since - if Europe goes, it’s likely he goes too."

Finally.  A Silver Lining to this mess. 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:57 | 1962735 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Not to mention that the fiat ponzi wiould collapse. And all Obama cares about is staying in power.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:10 | 1962788 trav7777
trav7777's picture

in "office."  He doesn't like this job nor want this job.  He just wanted to BE President for the adulation, just like his "leadership" of the Harvard Law Review.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:26 | 1962861 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

He sure as fuck doesn't mind the $400k yearly expense account, money from lobbyists, and other perks - all included.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:42 | 1962928 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Adding Michelle's plush travel account, and his stock shares in the BIS Corp and Federal Reserve Corp, he is making millions.  Hopefully he does something with his fiat before Europe collapses. 

Villa in Maui?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:50 | 1962956 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

The real money doesn't start rolling in until he leaves office, writes a book, and hits the lecture circuit. Just ask Bill Clinton, who ended his term nearly impoverished by legal fees, but who somehow came out OK after just a year or two.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:56 | 1963322 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

They all do well, at least during my lifetime.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:36 | 1963489 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Point- If Obama needs EU cohesiveness, he's screwed.

Counterpoint-    Have you seen the field of GOP contenders?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:18 | 1963899 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Obama's not running against Republicans, he's running against reality. Democrats and Dem leaning independents ALWAYS vote Democratic. Republicans and Rep leaning independents ALWAYS vote Republican. Real independents decide elections and they ALWAYS vote their pocketbook. Game over Obama.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:36 | 1963967 bogey4
bogey4's picture

his stock shares in the Federal Reserve Corp?  Better check your sources Jimi - he doesn't and can't own "stock shares" in the Fed. 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:04 | 1963354 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

U got that wrong. $400 k is just his allowance. His expense account is unlimited. 17 days in Hawaii. Who pays for his plane ride there? He sure as fuck ain't buying Hawaii airlines tickets on his own dime.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:11 | 1963864 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Get real. ZeroPower the brains. Obama would be making millions out of Harvard Law School at Goldman or other financial place. He took less as President.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:49 | 1962930 eureka
eureka's picture

In a certain way "US" has now finally conquered EU - that is to say, "US Crony Capitalism", has "conquered" - hence EU "socialism" is now totally dead and and phoney and stinky and farcical and non-existing - except except for US style socialism for the rich - a.k.a. FASCISM. To wit:

Courtecy of The Blowhorn:  "EU Leaders Drop Demands for Investor Write-Offs"

US cronies have won - even EU socialism is dead  - welcome to national socialism for & by the rich elite. Sieg Heil, Amerika.

In assoicated news, HeimLand Security - excuse me, HOME-Land SS, has thousands of career jobs for you - check your local city busses for billboards - at least they're all over L.A. - AND - there are couples and threesomes of heavily armed "HomieSS" on all subway stations' platforms.

FASCISM - IS in US - NOW - not in the future - TODAY - and it has today succesfully been pushed upon Europe: NO WRITE OFFS FOR INVESTORS - ONLY ENDLESS BAILOUTS FOR THE SPECUALATIVE INVESTING CLASS - i.e. the elite.

Are you ready to suck rich-dick?  OR - are you cocking your gun to take them out - and their cronies with them?

Personally, rest assured, I for one, will kill them left and right with my bare hands, my teeth and my entire being. WWIII is coming to a town square near you - live, in 3D and full color & aroma. I can smell it every day. Can you? Napalm in the morning. Ahh. Clean-up time. Get ready.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:27 | 1963665 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

"EU socialism is dead"

"welcome to national socialism"

Care to explain the difference, in detail? Don't waste your time: there is none.

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 19:38 | 1966824 saiybat
saiybat's picture

How many times must socialism end in disaster and millions dead before people realize there's no such thing as free shit?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:57 | 1963005 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Still looking for anything he wrote at Hahhvaaad, how about his grades anyone seen those?  How about 1, just 1 girl he dated before Michelle??  This guy is a cypher wrapped in an enigma..

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:45 | 1963274 HellFish
HellFish's picture

You sure you're looking for girls?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:03 | 1963348 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

His sweetheart and "roommate" was a Pakistani. Once the fast cars and free apartments got cut off, Obama had to find a sponsor - seems it was the Saudis after that. We know how they like to "help" young men.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:07 | 1963058 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Actually he just wanted to know if UFO's were real.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:12 | 1963388 jesusfreakinco
jesusfreakinco's picture

Don't forget his 'nobel peace prize' that he 'earned' - sarc off...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:52 | 1963541 CIABS
CIABS's picture

trav:  right.  and if he had actually wanted to do anything as president, to this day he'd be searching all over the white house wondering "where's the power"?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:00 | 1962739 Popo
Popo's picture

"We think the President is terrified, since - if Europe goes, it’s likely he goes too."

One could then logically conclude that the entire Republican side of Congress would therefore be happy to see Europe go boom.  

We live in interesting times...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:23 | 1962844 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

I am on record here as saying that the Repubs on the Hill are quite capable of doing something really stupid that ensures a deflationary collapse....sort cutting off one nose to spite one's face... 

If the system gotta go make mine body "wins" in deflationary collapse.... 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:37 | 1962898 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Hold on there you crazy kids.  If the whole system goes boom, do you actually think the Republicans will be left unscathed?  Will anyone vote for them either?  No, they will stay loyal to their bankster masters, because they know that if they bit the hand that feeds them, the banksters will push forward another pawn in the form of a new independent third party "guaranteed" to be better than the last two, and entirely innocent of this whole bankster cabal ponzi game (wink). 

Once you take the Devil's money, there's no getting out of the game.  The Republicans and the Democrats will continue to do exactly as they are told. 

Your mistake in investing was in believing it was a market, it wasn't.  If you frequent this blog that much must be clear by now.

Your mistake in reading politics is in believing the game of politics is about the game of politics.  It isn't.  It's about fiat Ponzi and central banking.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:13 | 1963049 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture


Perfect, you mean you're on your knees expecting inflation for all your debt. Clown. Nobody wins in deflation is false premise. Nobody wins in inflationary collapse, plus we get cherry of violence and mayhem. And while you're at it why not tell us voting doesn't matter either... oh see you've done it already. LOL!

"Are deflation and depression empirically linked? No, concludes a broad historical study of inflation and real
output growth rates. Deflation and depression do seem to have been linked during the 1930s. But in the rest
of the data for 17 countries and more than 100 years, there is virtually no evidence of such a link."

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:39 | 1963242 pods
pods's picture

Jackass.  Most of the data sets were before we went full fiat retard.  And of course modern data is not reliable, since if you technically have a depression, they change the damn rules.

Of course if you have a hard money standard deflation is normal.  Productivity increases are enjoyed by those who increase the productivity.

That FED paper is comparing apples to hand grenades.  Deflation due to productivity would be good.  But we cannot have that due to the governments of the world needing the extra revenue that is skimmed off through the inflation tax.  So when we speak of deflation now, we are going to be speaking about cascading defaults, not simple productivity increases.

You might want to be careful with your accusations of false premises when trotting out BS like this:


"Note that most of the episodes in the data set that have de?ation and no depression occurred

under a gold standard; does that somehow make them irrelevant for shedding light on de?ations

under a ?at system? No."

I stopped reading that drivel after that line.




Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:42 | 1963256 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

"Of course if you have a hard money standard deflation is normal.  Productivity increases are enjoyed by those who increase the productivity.

That FED paper is comparing apples to hand grenades.  Deflation due to productivity would be good.  But we cannot have that due to the governments of the world needing the extra revenue that is skimmed off through the inflation tax."


So good that it is worth repeating.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:46 | 1963279 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Wow, pods talking points. We need inflation, and voting doesn't matter.

I'll go behind an academic research report before value opinion of idiot who signs anonymous blog pods, LOL.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:04 | 1963329 pods
pods's picture

Yep, my "talking points."  Funny how you happen to think in terms of politics?  It is quite amusing.  Good luck to ya!  

I never said voting doesn't matter.  It matters more than you will ever know.  But not for accomplishing anything that the people want.

Voting is of the utmost importance to keep people like you believing that you actually have a say in how they run your life.

And, if you actually KNEW how to read, you would see that I never said WE need inflation.

Of course, you are in that realm of thinkers who happen to think that the government IS the people, so I can see how you would mistake government for me.



Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:05 | 1963359 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

I'm in realm of thinkers who think you're troll! LOL.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 17:16 | 1964348 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Technically, "realm" requires more than one element.  FAIL.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 18:45 | 1964671 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You guys are hilarious....

The concensus here at Zero Hedge is that it will not be deflation.... and I get junked for saying that I fear a deflationary collapse and that the Repubs are more likely to bring it about (what with show downs over debt ceilings and whatnot, go figger)

FWIW, my *total* debt level is $4,800...

I fear deflation because destroys everything in its wake, there is limited investment possibilities with high real interest rates....

And if you think that gold can function as a currency, you had better get US oil consumption down by 2/3.... i.e. drop about 10 mmbpd in imports....

The pair you have to worry about is oil-gold if you haven't figured it out yet....


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:09 | 1963593 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

Good. We can bury them next to each other in the graves they asked for. Go long on shovels,lye, and yes as always guns, ammo, and bullion. Tis the season.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:37 | 1962908 player333
player333's picture

You are correct, TPTB will shuffle, print, kick the can and try to balance inflation against the tidal wave of default-which I think  cannot be stopped.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:45 | 1962938 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Deflation maximus would suppose you could get rid of the quadrillions of dollars in the system that are floating around nearly worthless.  There may still be some deflation to come, but when the currencie is worth nothing and backed by nothing, hyperinflaation is the End Game.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:03 | 1963036 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I don't know if it really makes a difference.  Hyperinflation and deflation end up being the same thing... a system so completely turned upside down as to render "commerce" as we know it, dead.  There isn't a medium of exchange that people are willing to accept.  One system is broke because I don't have it (fiat money) the other because people won't accept it (fiat money).  Either represents the end of the dollar as we know it.  What comes next and who gets to decide and how do I survive the time between systems are the questions to ask, I think.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 21:24 | 1965060 fnord88
fnord88's picture

Exactly.....we need a new name for hyperinflation, cause it has fuck all to do with inflation or money printing......and it is deflationary in practice. First loss of confidence, then increase in velocity, then liquidity problems, then massive money printing.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:07 | 1963034 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:11 | 1963080 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Voting can't change our monetary system, I don't think.  Virtually all money is created as debt with interest associated with it.  Only there is isn't "money" in the system to pay the interest, so the system itself needs to issue more debt.  This continues until the cost to maintain the debt overwhelms the productive economy.  That ship sailed a ways back... it's been mostly smoke and mirrors since then.  Our collapse is coming and there is nothing that your vote can do to change it.  If one wants to vote for Ron Paul in the hope that he will ultimately be the person who can decide what will happen after the crash, I'm 100% on board.  I've voted for RP my whole life, starting in 1988 when he ran as the libertarian candidate.  But he can't "fix" where we are today.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:42 | 1963259 pods
pods's picture

Right in the 10 ring!

It isn't politics, it is math.


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:59 | 1963015 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Wow, POPO great logic and you got 7 idiots at this point to agree..  I never have to wonder why we are fucked..

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:59 | 1963016 El Oregonian
El Oregonian's picture

Exactly, Just as the Democrats RAILED on the General Petraeus engineered successful "Surge" in Iraq. Intresting times, indeed...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:20 | 1962826 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You are under the delusion that changing the resident of the Oval Office will change anything. If you were to get your dream candidate elected, you would only reap the tears of disappointment... And yes, that applies to Dr. Paul as well... So sit back, heckle and denigrate O all you want and take solace in that at least you have a focus for your discontent....  

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:44 | 1962933 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Obama is one of the weakest and worst presidents this country has ever had for the simple reason that he could have made a difference. In early 2009, he was enormously popular, he had filibuster-proof majorities in both houses of Congress. He could have tackled the hard problems and re-set this country's course. But what did he do? He fell into line and catered to the whims of the banksters, the health insurance and big pharma companies, etc., etc., etc. His entire philosophy of governance can be boiled down to the phrase "kick the can down the road". And now the opportunity for "change" is lost and we are heading for the abyss.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:53 | 1962978 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I think that he's right and you are wrong.  He's right because he has math on his side, you have emotion on yours.  This video was posted here a couple of weeks ago (Chris Martenson's talk in Spain). - This isn't a "problem to solve" this is a predicament created years ago when we created a monetary system based on credit/debt money.  It's "kick the can" or deflationary depression.  And the can has been kicked for literally generations now. 

What we need to focus on now is making sure that people understand what is happening and do our best to make sure that "what comes next" isn't more of the same.  But "what comes next" can't happen until the whole thing comes down.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:09 | 1963066 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Well, he could have pushed a healthcare reform act that actually reduced healthcare costs. He could have had Congress reinstall Glass-Steagal. He could have eliminated the federal guarentee of student loans thereby reducing college tuition. He could have brought the troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. He could have told his Attorney General to indict and prosecute the Wall Street bankers who committed fraud and other felonies. Shall I go on? He could have easily done all of those things and more that would have made a real difference.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:18 | 1963112 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

I agree with all of those things... but all of those things ultimately only work to hasten the economic collapse.  Once you get your arms around what money is... at least in our debt/credit based monetary system, the only way to avoid massive liquidation (deflationary depression) is to continue to expand debt.  Everything you describe does the opposite.  In the video I linked below... it's the difference between a "problem" to be solved and a predicament

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:23 | 1963145 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

"What is striking is that nearly 90% of the episodes with deflation did not have depression"

A 100 years of data.

You sound like a banker. I love Ron Paul, I vote for him all my life, but he can't help you, he'll take you to war like all the rest of them... is that what you mean to say?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:33 | 1963213 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

We are facing a debt overhang unlike anything the world has ever known.  No... I'm not a banker.  I'm just a guy trying to understand what's going on and trying to figure out how to best prepare for the future.  We have literally "doubled down" - thanks to mathematics, a couple too many times to make the coming deflationary depression look like the great depression. 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:42 | 1963257 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

If this is greatest debt overhang, how can we grow out of it? It's ridiculous argument to say we can expand debt. Only the bankers hope for this. Anyone with brain know that inflation leads to war and violence. I expect deflation, and I expect deflation to help us out of mess. But also expect corrupt bankers to do all in their power to try to inflate the shit from us. Don't take their talking points because it only hurts us.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:44 | 1963521 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

We CAN'T grow out of this.  You're having trouble in this conversation because you are trapped in a particular way of thinking.  You're going Vanilla Ice on it... "If there's a problem, Yo I'll solve it".

NOTHING can help us out of this mess.  NOTHING.  Bankers win in this system, PERIOD.  Austerity really only means making our monthly payment to... the bankers.  You need to spend some time getting your arms around what our monetary system means.  As Pods says... this is math, not politics.  You are stuck in a right vs. wrong, conservative vs. democrat, capitalism vs. communism non-reality that had been created for you.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:07 | 1963855 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

I must have missed Homeland Security meeting where new message priority to get people used to pay more for gas, so Fed can keep printing. LOL. Peak oil. Why are more trolls talking peak oil now. Coincidence? Peak oil is true so we need to find other source of energy or we have drastic downscale in society. Either way not so good for price of oil unless Fed keeps printing causing food and all costs to go up.

Austerity? No, why should people pay for bankers mistakes? Banks who lose who take on too much debt and make risky bets should fail.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:34 | 1963958 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

You've lost me now.  Peak oil, DHS, wha, what?  Like I said, you need to get your arms around how our monetary system works.  What you seem to be advocating will hasten the collapse.  I'm not advocating anything... I accept that the collapse will happen.  It's math.  It's only a question of timing.  There is no "return to normal"?

Sat, 12/10/2011 - 20:01 | 1966847 saiybat
saiybat's picture

It's been a long time coming.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:11 | 1963384 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

He could have? The leopard could have been a lion if he didn't have spots.

The communist could have been a capitalist if there never was a Marx.


WTF? I coulda been a contentender if I was a boxer, but I wasn't a boxer.


You are a broken record that is playing backwards. 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:23 | 1963439 pods
pods's picture

Thanks for that link kridkrid.  I will have to check it out.

The truth about money hit me after watching money as debt a couple of times.  When the light comes on, it burns bright, and forever.

Eustace Mullin's Secrets of the Federal Reserve is another good resource to see how methodical this all was.

Like a python slowly tightening its grip every time the victim exhales.


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:54 | 1963557 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

It isn't even terribly complicated, I don't think.  The hurdle people need to get over is that of faith.  People have "faith" that things are as they seem or as they are told.  Understanding how our monetary system works only requires curiosity and skepticism.  Armed with those two things, the mechanics of money is really quite simple (and relatively scary).

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:20 | 1963419 pods
pods's picture

Sorry Elvisdog, this has been baked in the cake since long before Obama.  

Nobody can save this system.  And that is actually good.  After it collapses, those left will never again let another bunch of banksters into the country with dreams of debt money!


Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:39 | 1967384 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

"After it collapses, those left will never again let another bunch of banksters into the country with dreams of debt money!"

Want to bet? Money talks, bub. That's how we got here in the first place. Nothing has changed and little is likely to change long term. It might take a while but "they" will be back.

One wonders if things could ever be different and what would have to have changed. Nationalize the Fed? One person's opinion: Nationalize the Fed's Invisible Hand under the US Treasury Dept., April 7, 2011 .  And sorry for redundancy, but also check out



Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:07 | 1963054 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

I agree with you. In fact IMHO the best situation would be a strong Ron Paul candidacy (with the suck ass MSM finally giving him his due) which spends the next 11 months ripping the Obama Bin Lying presidency to shredds. However, and this may not be a popular idea here, ideally then Obama still wins the presidency but enters the second terms so wounded, so humiliated, so "truth-revealed" that he has no will nor motivation to put any of his inept socialist ideologies into practice. Taking back the Senate, gaining further in the House should be the real goals, recovering the SCOTUS, should be the end game.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 09:41 | 1967387 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Maybe nice pipe-dreams but all are hope with little likelihood of happening. If, if, if....

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:23 | 1963149 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Wrong, my dream candidiate is me and while I would most certainly die in office there would be changes, oh yes..

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:53 | 1963553 GhostfaceCracka
GhostfaceCracka's picture

Pegasus Muse, when were you in the Regiment? 91-94 here. Allons!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:58 | 1963574 dcb
dcb's picture

No, sows ypu how out to lunch he is, he'd figure blame europe instead of himself.Which he seems to be an expert on.

I think Obama is afraid of a europe break up because it would be much harder to get a no show banking job for himself or his family.

Also it shows the primary problem of his entire presidency. He's listening to the bankers and the baqnkers cronies. hence we have a shitty recovery. If you have the wrong advisors you get the wrong advice, and you do the wrong things.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:10 | 1962790 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

Sending Geithner to Europe is like sending Fire Marshall Bill.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:08 | 1963056 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:21 | 1962832 DeltaDawn
DeltaDawn's picture

Off topic, but make sure to read the article at inforwars about the feds demanding the customer list of a Mormon cannery.  HS wants to know who is preparing for collapse.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:55 | 1962987 end da fed
end da fed's picture

i saw that. they'll probably come up with some kinda separation of church and state thingy so Mormons can keep prepping but the rest of us are terrorists. i can be Mormon. and my son will be a Quaker to stay outta the WW3 draft

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:43 | 1963261 s2man
s2man's picture

Ah Shit.  I was gonna make a big order in January.  I'll have to keep food below the radar now, too. Sheesh.

Our local Amish food store and farm stores give a discount for cash.  And no record of my purchaces.  Its a bit of a drive, but probably worth the effort.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:48 | 1963286 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

Has it really come to that? Have our leadership denegrated to the level of the Nazi's? If so, seriously, IF SO, then everything we discuss (talk talk talk talk talk post post post post twitter twitter twitter twitter etc etc etc etc) is not going to change one damn thing. IF SO....the time for talk is over.

Sun, 12/11/2011 - 10:07 | 1967406 dizzyfingers
dizzyfingers's picture

Do you consider unelected people who work in government agencies "our leadership"?  Or are they unelected sociopaths, distinguished from the elected sociopaths who are supposed to be "our leadership" but don't deserve to be?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:02 | 1962749 tempo
tempo's picture

Obama pushed in all the chips when BOA transferred its $77 tillion deriviativee investments to its banking arm. Under a 2005 admendment to bankrupcy law, the banks losses on derivatives take priority over custmer deposits and investments in the event of a banking failure. A 5% loss on the BOA derivatives would essentially daisy chain into a worldwide collapse leaving FDIC and SPIC guarantees meaningless. See article for details. Either Germany takes charge and the EU moves to a fiscal union or the USA will blow up the entire system. The UK shadow leveraged banking system allows for massive unregulated risk where US deposits are transfered and the leveraged by nearly all banks into high risk wild west investments. This too will eventually result in a financial crisis.  Geither is giving the A holes in the EU the plan and marching orders.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:01 | 1962760 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

going long costume rentals, but shorting police uniform manufacturers - militarization, y'know!?!?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:03 | 1962767 reboot this mofo
reboot this mofo's picture

You meant "Little Timmy" is a stool.

Small, smelly, nasty one.

Sorry, I must tell the truth where the truth is warranted.

Even if the truth reeks.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:14 | 1963091 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Might I suggest, as a small step towards a balanced budget, he only be given a one way ticket?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:30 | 1963942 zeuzeus
zeuzeus's picture

Good one! =))))

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 15:30 | 1963943 zeuzeus
zeuzeus's picture

Good one! =))))

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:42 | 1962657 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

If Obama still thinks he should be in charge for another 4 years, he is as disillusional as Wall Street.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:45 | 1962674 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Disillusional?  Is that you dubya?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:40 | 1962921 prains
prains's picture

Again, Newt Gingrich is Dick Cheney's fat little sister and wants to have your baby.All potus options are lose,lose,lose. Same shit different day.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:10 | 1963074 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

"All potus options are lose,lose,lose. Same shit different day."

Welcome to ZH prains.  Here at ZH we like Ron Paul.  He is real change and real leadership.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:22 | 1963138 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Here at ZH we...


Prolly less uniformity of opinion "here" than you may believe.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:56 | 1962728 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Yes. President Gringrich is going to be sooo much better for the USA than Obama.

I look forward to when he makes poverty illegal and just puts poor people in jail.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:11 | 1962794 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Not jail. FEMA Camps... Like summer camps for grown ups that are unemployed... and are now unemployable because their jobs have been shipped over seas or given to robots or made redundent by new technology.

Only the Camps will operate year round. Remind you of anything?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:34 | 1962890 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Nobody is unemployable.
Everyone can produce some type of output even if it is small.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:52 | 1962970 victor82
victor82's picture

Besides, I thought the Left had a thing for, you know, Strength Through Joy?

Our new, Soros-inspired vision: Everybody votes JAWOHL!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:52 | 1962971 victor82
victor82's picture

Besides, I thought the Left had a thing for, you know, Strength Through Joy?

Our new, Soros-inspired vision: Everybody votes JAWOHL!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:14 | 1963400 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I think it is called "Labor brings Freedom"

Or "Work will make you Free"

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:15 | 1963404 CynicLaureate
CynicLaureate's picture

But not everybody can produce enough to cover the cost of keeping them alive, hence the phrase "useless eaters", from the French "bouches inutiles", used to describe the siege of Chateau Gaillard in 1204.

Link to artwork:

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:31 | 1962878 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Yes, as Europe has shown us, endles entitlements are the way to prosperity.  How dare anyone defy the Keynesians and have a different idea!?

Obama 2012 - shit, why not forever?  He gets it!  Yes He can, We?, Not so much...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:10 | 1963073 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

To quote The Who: "Meet the new boss.  Same as the old boss."

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:15 | 1963407 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

We are the new boss that we were looking for.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:00 | 1962745 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

Best case: Ron Paul runs as an independent and pulls in 20%, which gives his ideas some level of credibility. The Republicans lose due to the fracturing of their base and Obama is left to clean up a very serious mess with no help from congress as it would then be run by Repubs which refuse bailouts ets. Deflation sets in. The fiat currency implodes. Gold actually rises against the deflationary tide due to currency issues, and in 2013 we actually deal with reality... What happens between now and then is a crap shoot - my guess is thing get really nasty next year...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:19 | 1962822 The Proletariat
The Proletariat's picture


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 16:10 | 1964082 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Hy guys, RP has a chance of winning.  The worse all this gets, the better he looks.  Real polling in Iowa, NH, and NC show him very much in the running.  A victory for him in 1 or 2 of these first 3 changes the whole ball game.


Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:48 | 1962944 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Obama is left to clean up a very serious mess

Give me one shred of evidence from the past 3 years that Obama is willing or even able to "clean up a mess"? He wants to be re-elected not because he wants to change or fix anything but because they all want 2 terms and he loves it when people beam at and cheer for him. He has kicked the can down the road for the past 3 years (or made things worse, aka healthcare reform). What makes you think he won't kick the can down the road in his 2nd term.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:38 | 1963232 Jeff Lebowski
Jeff Lebowski's picture

Give me a chance to catch up, ElvisDog. I'm having a hard time finding them with this smart phone and no wi-fi to you green arrows on everything you've said.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:54 | 1962988 victor82
victor82's picture

I know it's DEBKA, but the Israelis and the Syrians are actually starting to put out war warnings because of the Syrian revolt. War may occur over the winter.

Obama and the Banksters may get their wish.

Remember the solution to the last Depression?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:39 | 1963725 BigJim
BigJim's picture

WWII wasn't the 'solution' to the Great Depression. The end of WWII, and the repeal of most of FDR's central planning, was the end of the depression.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:19 | 1962820 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

The mere act of running for President of the US is in and of itself proof of delusion. It is the moment when a person decides "I should be the most powerful person on earth". That IS the definition of "delusional".

Anybody running for president is to one degree or another...delusional.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:43 | 1962661 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

If Obama gets elected again, the populace will get what they deserve.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:45 | 1962678 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



Isn't that true no matter who gets elected.....?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:47 | 1962686 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

The choice between Gingrich and Obama could be enought to start a real riot.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:54 | 1962720 Peter K
Peter K's picture

NOt really. NOBODY is worse than the Bamster. Elmer Fudd would make a better president:)

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:02 | 1962765 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture



I'm no Barry fan, but from the cast-off point forward, someone that takes the U.S. ambitiously in a bad direction - even if well-intended - could be the death knell.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:04 | 1962725 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Even Gingrich, at the end of the day, is a better living through government guy - and even if he isn't whatever he does will be to little too late anyway. Another Obama term brings inevitable collapse that much sooner and sooner = better. OBAMA IN 2012!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:13 | 1962803 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Gingrich is a neocon through and through.  IMO, he will expand the war and clamp down on dissent at home through authoritorian rule.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:23 | 1962842 DeltaDawn
DeltaDawn's picture

Pick your flavor, the big O. will too!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:56 | 1962731 falak pema
falak pema's picture

All O'bammy has to do is send a Michelle look alike strapped up with tape recorder and ask her to spend a night to have Newt nuke her. That would be poetic justice for Monica caper.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:31 | 1962880 HardwoodAg
HardwoodAg's picture

You may have just caused negative population growth. 

NO one  should be able to grow a stiffy with that mind worm wandering.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:49 | 1962949 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Gingrich will not get the Republican nomination. He was way more baggage and skeletons than Cain did.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:41 | 1963738 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

White-bread trust-fund WASP kiddies vs. moderately impoverished urban black youth?

What a riot!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:29 | 1962872 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"The larger the mob, the harder the test. In small areas, before small electorates, a first-rate man occasionally fights his way through, carrying even the mob with him by force of his personality. But when the field is nationwide, and the fight must be waged chiefly at second and third hand, and the force of personality cannot so readily make itself felt, then all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre—the man who can most easily adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The Presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

H. L. Mencken... writing for the Baltimore Sun... way back when...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:50 | 1962943 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

+1... "the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

Nice, timely analysis...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:44 | 1962663 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

The way the Euro situation is being spun across the pond, is mind boggling...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:51 | 1962703 Shocker
Shocker's picture

Its best not to watch

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:44 | 1962665 Capitalist10
Capitalist10's picture

EU collapse would also devastate Obama's plans to remake America on the the model of Eurosocialism.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:55 | 1962721 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Obama Bin Lyin' Has No Plan

He simply reads the teleprompter and follows instructions from Jamie & Lloyd et al...

Brought to you by:

CREEP -- Committee to RE-Elect the President

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:17 | 1962817 ATM
ATM's picture

Actually I think he's following instructions from Bill Ayres and the rest of the Maoists.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:32 | 1962877 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Jamie & Lloyd are Wen Jiabao Maoists...

Privatize profits... Socialize the loses on the sucker tax payers...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:44 | 1962667 zippy_uk
zippy_uk's picture

The Eurocrates continue to bang on about being less in debt than the US overall - its true. What they don't talk about is that their race horse currency is built like a camel.

Of course - if the Euro does go down we are all screwed. Thanks a bunch Barroso / Rompoy et all.

Hopefully the depressionary collapse in EUROzone will be slow and drawn out, to give all the "OUTS" and US / Asia time to form plan B

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:48 | 1962689 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Make sure you have your own Plan-B, because these lunatics have planned this banking/financial collapse, and will not fix it, theyre just marking time now until some 'event' for the coordinated implosion.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:57 | 1962738 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Timmah is famous for his "Plan B"...

There is none! HAHA-Hahaha-ah-ha...

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:11 | 1962791 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

Yeah, MF global was planned as much as, "oh shit! we're all fucked! what the fuck are we going to do about this? call corzine, um... send him to mf global. we'll make them a primary dealer, have them buy all this shit and take the fall. he'll sit in the hot seat for a billion and another harem of 15 year old virgins. ...

oh shit, they can't buy enough of this shit! fuck it! just steal the client accts! corzine is going to demand another fucking harem! we're running out of virgins! do you have any idea how hard it is to kipnap and traffic all these fucking kids? fuck it! we have to!"

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:24 | 1962850 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I agree with the earlier ZH article about MFGlobal, that whole thing was planned as well to beat down commodities traders.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:45 | 1963277 s2man
s2man's picture

We're running out of virgins because we allow women to drive.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:45 | 1963754 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Call Dyncorp, your white-slavery logistics solution!

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:19 | 1962824 walküre
walküre's picture

Next EU meeting in March 2012.

When is Italy's debt of 400 billion due? They don't have that time.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:16 | 1962813 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Some of the governments have less debt, but total debt (including consumer and business) is on par with the USA.  Furthermore, European banks are way under-capitalized (even compared to the USA).

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:44 | 1962668 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

Obama who?  He's finished anyway. One and done.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:47 | 1962687 zippy_uk
zippy_uk's picture

Really ? The GOP have a better candidate who can beat him ? Who (Ron Paul won't make the cut)

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:53 | 1962714 Captain Kink
Captain Kink's picture

Really.  The economic and political backdrop will only worsen for the administration before the election.  We will slow with Europe, and they cannot "stimulate" the economy any longer.  It is politically impossible.  The members of Congress (Blue and Red), as hated as they are, will begin to distance themselves from the President very soon.  A chimp could beat him in November. He is DONE.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:07 | 1962778 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

It's never a good idea to change generals in the midst of war.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:15 | 1962810 trav7777
trav7777's picture

ROTFL, if you look at the history of war, this is EXACTLY what the fuck they do, as a matter of ROUTINE and especially when the war isn't going well.

Look at how many theatre commanders we've had in each war we're in now

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:23 | 1962839 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

How many US 1 term "Commanders-in-chief" have been sent packing in the middle of "hostilities?"

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 13:22 | 1963428 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Esp. CinC's who start their own private wars [Libya, Yemen, Pookistan]

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:21 | 1963638 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

You forgot Chimpy and Iraq/Afghan. 

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:52 | 1962969 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

I think Churchill is a good example from across the pond. He was widely seen as the savior of Britain during WWII, and yet a couple of years after the war when the economy turned down he was turned out on his ear.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:57 | 1963009 victor82
victor82's picture

Abe Lincoln disagrees with you. That's how we got from Tardy George McClellan to Ulysses Sampson Grant.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:10 | 1962789 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Absolutely correct. We have many minefields to cross before next November, and with the politicians/banksters stumbling around like a drunk on a three day bender, what are the odds that a mine doesn't get stepped on?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:21 | 1962830 walküre
walküre's picture

It would be funny if the GOP couldn't even pull a win against this looser.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:00 | 1963026 victor82
victor82's picture

As a proud member of the Reagan wing of the Party, I want to tell you that the Beltway GOP couldn't organize a trip to a Bangkok whorehouse, much less pick who the towel boy was going to be.

We will be very, very lucky to beat Obama next year.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 14:24 | 1963648 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Would that be the budget busting side, 'free trade' side, or the Iran/Contra side of St. Ronnie?

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 10:44 | 1962671 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I hope Art is right. That basturd needs to go. My fear is that he won't go willingly.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 11:17 | 1962816 Hippocratic Oaf
Hippocratic Oaf's picture


He will not bow-out gracefully if beaten.

This will be a bloody street mess.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 12:32 | 1963115 Barbarians_R_Us
Barbarians_R_Us's picture

I'm pretty sure that "bloody street mess" is going to be our future, no matter what.

Beans, bullets and bullion.

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