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Art Cashin On The New Normal's New Populism: 165 Million As State Dependents?

Tyler Durden's picture


Some must read observations on the dangerous path down which American society is headed.

Via UBS Financial Services

A Somewhat Ominous Op-Ed Recalls A Manufactured Ominous Quote – An op-ed in Forbes last week by Bill Wilson is causing some buzz in Wall Street watering holes. Its title is "165 Million Americans Are Dependents of the State: Is Tyranny Next?" Here's a bit of the essay:

Is America descending into a dependency state, where the majority uses its voting power to demand government services from taxpayers?


New research from Ranking Member of the Senate Budget Committee Jeff Sessions (R-AL) reveals that this reality may already be here, with more than 107 million Americans on some form of means-tested government welfare.


Add to that 46 million seniors collecting Medicare (subtracting out about 10 million on Supplemental Security Income, Medicaid, and other senior-eligible programs already included in Sessions’ means-tested chart) and 22 million government employees at the federal, state, and local level — and suddenly, over 165 million people, a clear majority of the 308 million Americans counted by the U.S. Census Bureau in 2010, are at least partially dependents of the state.


Since President Obama took office in 2009, eligibility for Medicaid, food stamps, the earned income tax credit, the making work pay tax credit, and unemployment benefits has increased by roughly 10 million. …….


But it’s even worse than that. In fact, most voting-age Americans do not pay income taxes — approximately 50.6 percent.


That includes 53.91 million Americans who pay nothing in income taxes, and another 64.7 million who get refunds in excess of what was owed. That’s 118.61 million out of 234.6 million Americans 18 years and older, based on data compiled by the Joint Committee on Taxation and the U.S. Census Bureau.


The U.S. Constitution was designed to protect against such an outcome. The Founders did not want a democracy, which tends to be problematic because of the failure of minority rights to be defended against an arrogant or authoritarian majority. So, instead, the Founders created a republic.


In Federalist No. 10, James Madison wrote that in democracies, “governments are too unstable, [and] the public good is disregarded in the conflicts of rival parties, and that measures are too often decided, not according to the rules of justice and the rights of the minor party, but by the superior force of an interested and overbearing majority.”


Madison prescribed “curing the mischiefs of faction”, including a tyranny of the majority, by “controlling its effects”. Madison warned that “a pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction.”


So, the “majority, having such coexistent passion or interest, must be rendered, by their number and local situation, unable to concert and carry into effect schemes of oppression.” But how?


Instead of everyone gathering on a hill and voting on laws, the scheme of representation was established, wherein we elect our representatives to make decisions. Also, having a large, geographically wide republic and constitutional limits on the powers of government, complete with two branches of legislature, was supposed to prevent a tyranny of the majority from ever appearing.


Or at least, as Madison put it, such factors would “make it less probable that a majority of the whole will have a common motive to invade the rights of other citizens”. …..

The concept of a majority living off a minority, almost naturally, has resurfaced that old quote, an election year chestnut, attributed to Alexander Tytler. Here's what I wrote on the quote a few years ago.

The “New Populism” Makes A Manufactured Quote Very Apt And Timely – On this day back in 2003, we pondered a fascinating quote. It was said to be from a book titled “The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic” by a professor of history at Edinburgh University. His name was said to be Alexander Fraser Tytler. Most fascinating (to me) was that the book was said to have been published in 1776 just as the American Republic was being born.


Here is the quote:


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising them the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over a loss of fiscal responsibility, always followed by a dictatorship. The average of the world's great civilizations before they decline has been 200 years. These nations have progressed in this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to  apathy; from apathy to dependency; from dependency back again to bondage."


Our research suggests that the quote was “manufactured” at a far more recent date. Nonetheless, the quote seems especially appropriate in today’s political atmosphere. Let us hope its conclusion does not turn out to be appropriate.

We expect that you, and we, shall hear more and more of Tytler and, hopefully, Madison, as our politicians toy with making this a class warfare election. God save the Republic!


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Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:19 | 2723345 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Obama will pay for my gas & mortgage...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:25 | 2723357 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



In other news.......GM is set to announce they will accept SNAP cards.


Everyone has the right to go the the store to buy their food in style. Seven out of ten GM cars are made outside the you know they're high quality!



Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:27 | 2723373 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

You might have just stumbled on a brilliant new idea...

"Reward Points" for your EBT purchases ("x" amount of bonus points buys you a brand new Chevy Volt ~ complete with weenies & marshmallows)...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:29 | 2723377 malikai
malikai's picture

Will Obama pay for my Hookers and Blow? I want to vote democrat, but I'm just not sure yet..

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:36 | 2723388 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Go for it... Don't miss out on the gravy train this time around...


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:39 | 2723408 Dalago
Dalago's picture

USSA bitchezzzzz!


A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.”  - Gerald R. Ford; Address to a Joint Session of Congress. August 12, 1974

Domari Nolo

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:44 | 2723434 old naughty
old naughty's picture

No need to convince us that more printing is necessary.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:44 | 2723438 Stackers
Stackers's picture

Sorry Art, the Republic has been dead and buried for a long time already.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:36 | 2723921 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

USA  rest in peace

Requiescat in pace

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:32 | 2724137 caconhma
caconhma's picture

In America, we should not worry about a democracy anymore. It is a history.

We are rapidly moving in a direction of Greece.


76% of Greeks like to immigrate. Where will Americans move to?

As a former Soviet citizen I like to tell you that neither state-controlled propaganda nor mental institutions to treat dissidents did not work. The USSR just collapsed. One should not expect different results trying to do the same thing again and again and again...


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 15:05 | 2724868 AGuy
AGuy's picture

"Where will Americans move to? As a former Soviet citizen I like to tell you that neither state-controlled propaganda nor mental institutions to treat dissidents did not work. The USSR just collapsed."

You've answered your own question. The US will collapse and break up just like the Soviet Union. Americans will migrate to the new nations that made up the US, just like people did after the SU collapse. Perhaps with the exception of the Southern nations (formed out o the former) SU, most of the people have better opportunities and a recovered standard of living.


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:56 | 2723501 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Chesterfield  County PD, the FBI and members of the other sunglasses-wearing federal security forces are on their way to Art's house right now to interview him and take him to a psych ward for "evaluation."

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:12 | 2723580 sumo
sumo's picture

The psych ward is in an underground basement somewhere in Morocco. They have experts there for "evaluating" and "taking care of" difficult people. Don't worry Art, CIA will have an officer recording everything, for training purposes.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:50 | 2723781 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

I hope they don't check his hard drive...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:10 | 2723862 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

So who are the 750 Million rounds of hollow point bullets for?  The dependents or the cash cows for taxation?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:37 | 2724157 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Operation Prarie Fire...dissenters in the NWO...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:42 | 2723429 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Heroin from Aghanistan is included.  Hookers are for the Secret Service and military.  You should vote republican.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:00 | 2723522 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

No, the lesson here is that he should join the secret service.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:44 | 2723432 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

As long as it aren't Azian hookers and that your blow comes from US government sponsored Colombian plantations it's okay...

you know... BUY AMERICAN!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:41 | 2723739 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

It's the blow that comes from the Columbian plantation. hookers demand affirmative action rights-idUSBRE87K0J120120821



Tue, 08/21/2012 - 16:57 | 2725289 monad
monad's picture

Fuck 'em. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:15 | 2723594 Will To Live
Will To Live's picture

You will then be on our Representatives Plan.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:34 | 2723401 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

It would be interesting to compare ( by percentage ) the level of public dependency in the EU member nations, to the above-captioned level of dependency in the United States. It would not be at all surprising to find America is the most "dependent" of Western states.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:47 | 2723454 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

No, in Europe you retire at 42 after not paying any taxes and getting 3 months vacation a year and free medical for everybody and the top earners pay 75% tax.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:30 | 2723689 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

then you get americans to bail you out via currency swaps, interconnected guarantees, et al.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:26 | 2723903 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Outside the states I have never met an American tourist getting unemployment insurance or welfare, quite common to find Europeans

on welfare, unemployment , etc ,traveling as tourists in various Asian countries

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:17 | 2724343 the tower
the tower's picture

Bullshit. You obviously know nothing about Europe, you're only confirming American ignorance.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 11:15 | 2807022 Cursive
Cursive's picture


re: taxes

Not that I disagree with the main thrust of the post (that the USSA is a welfare state is well-known), but federal income taxes are irrelevant for the working and middle classes.  The payroll taxes are how money is collected from the lowest of the low (assuming one works).  This has also given rise to a great black market for menial labor jobs.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:48 | 2723458 Sauk Leader
Sauk Leader's picture

Whats in your wallet.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:25 | 2723367 stocktivity
stocktivity's picture

Silver is heading higher again this morning.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:44 | 2723435 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

See?  Some of us are actually in the courage stage.  Unfortunately, many are still in bondage.  It would be foolish to believe that we are currently not under a tyranical state overall.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:44 | 2723436 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

See?  Some of us are actually in the courage stage.  Unfortunately, many are still in bondage.  It would be foolish to believe that we are currently not under a tyranical state overall.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:37 | 2723412 IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

Truly a benevolent dictator....mmm...mmm...mmm

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:47 | 2723456 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Shorting AAPL as of right now at 673.  Duration of trade 2-minutes to 4-days.  LOL.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:56 | 2723499 Red Heeler
Red Heeler's picture

"Obama will pay for my gas & mortgage..."

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:01 | 2723523 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Vote liberal democrat. Lets expedite this madness.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:12 | 2723866 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I'm confused now.  So Romeny right?  No wait Obama?  Shit.  I will stay home.


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:42 | 2723968 bnbdnb
bnbdnb's picture

Yeah Obama = Romney. Not in Congress though. Vote liberal spend heavy everywhere.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:09 | 2723570 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

And Titty Bars funded by Snatch Cards!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:34 | 2723707 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Once the plebes discover they can vote bread and circuses for themselves on the government dole, it's essentially over for your society.

Robert Heinlein, "Time enough for love"

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:04 | 2723833 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

Obammy would like to sell you some hunger insurance. Are you insured against hunger? Perhaps you should be! Without this coverage, you may find it impossible to continue to afford feeding yourself and your family. With this coverage, not only will you be assured of continuing to get at least some food, but so will I. In fact, thanks to this plan, I will get to eat very, very well indeed.

Here's how it works. You buy a hunger insurance plan from my hunger insurance company, or from one of my illustrious competitors in the hunger insurance industry. The hunger insurance market is very competitive, offering you plenty of consumer choice. You can even decide to go with a hunger maintenance organization (HMO); that would make a lot of sense if you are on a diet.

Whichever company you choose buys up food in bulk on your behalf. Then, should you come down with a case of hunger, you can file a claim, pay the copayment, and get some of the food. Certain feeding procedures, such as breakfast, are considered elective, and are not covered.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:43 | 2723974 mrdenis
mrdenis's picture

You didn't buy that gas ..someone else bought it for you ......

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:53 | 2724005 xamax
xamax's picture

Now I ask myself what the State can do for me and certainly not what I can do for the State. Thats what all these idiots of central bankers have achieved, at least with me.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:10 | 2724305 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

Were do I apply?  REALLY>>>>>>>>>

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 19:16 | 2725629 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

Francis my friend, you are of the wrong class.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 20:38 | 2725830 monad
monad's picture

Obama will make you pay for my gas & mortgage. Obama will make you pay for my wife's boob job. Its needs based, her shrink says she has low self esteem. Obama will make you pay for my ugly kid's braces, and therapy and education. Obama will make you pay for rounds of 40's for congress & his homeys, and every lateeno in the world is standing in line expecting Santa to give them a white woman, like Romney has already promised. Including the faggots, who plan to sell them.
Brother, you asked for it.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:20 | 2723346 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

The simple story is that we need a new source of demand to fill the gap left by the collapse of the housing bubble. In the short term that can only be the government. In the longer term it will have to be trade, which means a reduction in the trade deficit. That means first and foremost getting the value of the dollar down, but macho politicians in Washington don't talk about a lower valued dollar. The folks on Wall Street don't like it.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:36 | 2723405 Hero Protagonist
Hero Protagonist's picture

Not a snark here...

That means first and foremost getting the value of the dollar down

In your scenario, who is responsible for "getting the value of the dollar down"?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:22 | 2723356 centerline
centerline's picture

Is tyranny next?

Yes.  Duh.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:24 | 2723358 monad
monad's picture

The history of the USA since 1913 parallels the events surrounding the implantation of the Scots into Ireland. I suggest you study what they did to Belfast in the 60s & 70s; its whats next, with computers.


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:23 | 2723361 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

fuk forbes and the high horse he rode in on

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:24 | 2723363 ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Own silver and gold and limit the risk of dependency

Le Metropole Members,

After much aggravation of late, BOTH gold and silver have
taken out their key resistance points of $1630 and $29
respectively. The bases formed over the past many months
are powerful ones and can support moves to much higher

Thus far the info provided to me by my three sources
about an August precious metals breakout, which will lead
to all-time high prices for gold and silver, is on target.

In addition, it will be helpful to know that it is only
a matter of time before the problem JP Morgan has with
their massive silver short position goes VIRAL! Think
Libor scandal type thing!

All the best,

Bill Murphy
Le Patron

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:31 | 2723924 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Why do people keep quoting fundementals about gold and silver the market, it is pure control and gold and silver will go to what TPTP want it at period, also if i read another writing on how gold/silver are going to go crazy, when it has gone down in value since sept 2011, dont get me wrong i have gold/silver ,but please all your gold/silver price are belong to them.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:25 | 2723366 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Everyone seems to be ready for "the collapse". My question is simple.

What happens after the collapse?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:29 | 2723381 centerline
centerline's picture

That's where the tyranny part kicks in!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:27 | 2724119 Incubus
Incubus's picture

tranny party?  Sounds fun.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:30 | 2723385 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

"The pain of war,

 cannot exceed,

 the woe of aftermath"

-LedZeppelin [battleofevermore]

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:36 | 2723942 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

War , I fart in its general direction , so 5 to10 million people die , try disarming a nation then we will see some real numbers  262 million killed by tyranical Governments  this centery alone. Disarmerment is Genocide

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:30 | 2723386 malikai
malikai's picture

No, everyone *here* seems to be ready.

Our local sheeple are most certainly are not ready.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:45 | 2723445 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

In the minds of many people "ready" is a relative term. Many so called "sheeple" are beginning to see, or at least strongly sense, that the wolf circles the flock. Since they are locked into their present reality or they simply live paycheck to paycheck, this growing awareness constitutes "ready" in their minds.

Dependency often creates closed minds and a belief that there are no options.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:26 | 2723906 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

 "In the minds of many people "ready" is a relative term."


EXACTLY!... Every time I buy a box of ammo... the DHS turns around and buys another billion hollowpoints... It's like playing Monopoly & the only property you own is Mediterranean & your opponent has monopolies on all the rest of the board (with hotels on them)...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:36 | 2724448 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Have you heard the news?
The dogs are dead!

You better stay home
And do as you're told
Get out of the road

if you want to grow old.


Not no options, no good options.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:32 | 2723391 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Wall Street becomes eligible for full time Military protection?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:38 | 2723416 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

it always has had full-time military protection, but now you will actually "see" the tanks. like that zappa quote....

"The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:45 | 2723447 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Most of us here have already peaked behind that curtain. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:10 | 2723573 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

yes, and its so disheartening when we go forth into our daily routines and see how asleep people are. quite sad. and lonely. but you know, lonesome are the brave!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:35 | 2723939 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I find my daily routine revolves less and less of a routine to the daily grind and more time staring into the abyss. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:37 | 2723944 ONO47
ONO47's picture

Dude, cheer up. Being disheartened isn't going to help. You need to be a happy warrior. We have challenges, oppurtunities and a lot of work ahead.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:38 | 2723953 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

There is lots of money to be made from war , let the stupid ones go and fight it and you make the money, dont worry be happy.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:45 | 2723982 ONO47
ONO47's picture

Is that sound money?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:48 | 2723460 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I've always loved that Zappa quote. Spot on.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:58 | 2723507 Zwelgje
Zwelgje's picture

Zappa was beyond

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:33 | 2723392 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

The collapse has already happened and you are witnessing the aftermath...a handout nation, SNAP explosion, and I'll bet that although 50.6% of voting age are on public assistance that if you did an exit poll of THOSE THAT VOTE, the % of those people is probably in the 65% territory meaning that more dole is a foregone conclusion.  Less investment in meaningful companies (ie. not retail) that move this country forward will be curtailed as the nannystate enlarges.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:35 | 2723403 d edwards
d edwards's picture

On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. ;-)

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:39 | 2723418 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

football season?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:05 | 2723550 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

lol, who cares, right? watch the big game or Oprah and look! Good Morning America, CNN, everything is A-OK! ;)

its so easy to sleep
its so painful to wake up.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:45 | 2723760 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

Indeed. It's the blue pill, red pill story. If one chooses the blue pill there is a cornucopia of pharmaceuticals to numb the senses and settle into a state of permanent normalcy bias bliss. Tempting for many...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:37 | 2723948 pods
pods's picture

Ummmm, steak.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:07 | 2724053 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Classic! Just a beautiful summary of a key Matrix scene.

"You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize?"

[Takes a bite of steak]

"Ignorance is bliss."

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:41 | 2724174 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

'If ignorance is bliss, then knock the smile of my face.'

If we don't take action now
We settle for nothing later
Settle for nothing now
And well settle for nothing later

~Settle for Nothing, RATM

-listen on volume 10+

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:55 | 2724213 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture


A World of Hillbilly Heroin: The Hollowing Out of America, Up Close and Personal

by Chris Hedges

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:45 | 2723427 BLOTTO
BLOTTO's picture

Good Question CD...

Thats when i think we get duped, lied to, *hoodwinked* - yet again...

They bring in the remaining 'King' - our supposed 'new saviour'...which will NOT be our 'good' guy.

In fact, thats when the reall tyranny starts...

Out of Chaos...


And this order is not going to be fun...its going to be shit.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:11 | 2723578 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Essentially endless root canals without Novacaine.

<Dang.....Obamacare won't pay for it either.>

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:29 | 2723914 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

No Obamacaine?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:38 | 2723951 pods
pods's picture

That was last election.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:08 | 2724058 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You're on FIRE today pods. :>)


[Finance, Insurance and Real Estate]

Wed, 08/22/2012 - 10:19 | 2727121 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

It took me a second, Pods.  That was a good catch.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 20:43 | 2725852 monad
monad's picture

I'm pretty sure Roger Clinton still delivers.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:00 | 2723821 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

It's been going on since before 3123BCE.

No different now.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 16:38 | 2725231 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

You sure know how to make a guy take a bunch of reading detours before getting to the bottom of the comments section!


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:44 | 2723440 nevadan
nevadan's picture

After the collapse?  Those who are able to stay alive and retain their holdings of precious metals will prosper.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:46 | 2723452 web bot
web bot's picture

For a time.... barter economy... civil unrest... gov't (military) expropriating food producers and distribution companies...

There's a long list of events CD.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:01 | 2723531 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I agree.

Our best defense against the unknown and unknowable is an open and flexible mind. So often we are our own worst enemy because we refuse to let go of what was and not prepare for and deal with what is.....and what's coming. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:20 | 2723887 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

The collapse happens in stages.

First, the moral collapse from the credit driven greater fool economy where people try to fool each other rather than generating value added.

Then, the societal collapse from unemployment and inequality caused by the burst bubbles which allocates gains and losses without regards to individual merits.

Then, the material collapse from lack of sound investment and winding down of malinvestments, or the prolonging of the collapse by central planning.

Finally, the institutional collapse caused by the failure of government to postpone the inevitable day of reckoning.

Each phase requires different hedges, different focus points and different skills.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:48 | 2723459 fuu
fuu's picture

We learn to forgive and forget? Someone around here wrote an article about that.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:03 | 2723500 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I seem to remember a foolish idealistic idiot posting some drivel along those lines last year.

He really should just get a life. :)

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:16 | 2723595 fuu
fuu's picture

I see I was feeling militant in that post.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:31 | 2723694 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

We all have our days. Sometimes I go back and read the comments underneath my articles (where I feel true learning is acquired from the thoughts of others) and sometimes I can't help but laugh at my old posted comments.

It is sort of like looking at old photos of yourself. There are "I can't believe I wore those ugly clothes" moments galore.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:39 | 2723726 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

I can relate. I generally come here for 3 reasons, not necessarily in order. To be entertained, to school, or be schooled. I find the latter to be where I am most often... =)

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:59 | 2723508 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

Whores and bandits.  Washington moves to New York City.  Marion Barry is in charge.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:08 | 2723557 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I live near (not in) DC and was always embarrassed by that whole Marion Barry thingy.

Then I remember that I grew up near that whole embarrassing Buddy Cianci thingy. :>)

Vincent Albert "Buddy" Cianci, Jr. (born April 30, 1941) served as the mayor of Providence, Rhode Island, from 1975 to 1984 and again from 1991 to 2002. Cianci was the longest-serving mayor of Providence, and one of the longest-serving "big city" mayors in United States history, having held office for over 21 years.


Notably, he was forced to resign from office twice due to felony convictions. His first administration ended in 1984 when he pled guilty to assault. His second stint as mayor ended when he was forced to resign following his conviction for racketeering conspiracy (running a corrupt criminal enterprise), and he served four years in federal prison.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:34 | 2723702 TSA gropee
TSA gropee's picture

What happens? Probably a whole myriad of things and depends upon one's physical location I suppose. Here in the good ol' US of A, my guess is that some plan to disarm the population would be in play which afterwards the mop up operation would begin... IMHO.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:44 | 2723756 tbone654
tbone654's picture

Everyone seems to be ready for "the collapse". My question is simple.

What happens after the collapse?


Millions of dead bodies I believe...

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:24 | 2723896 reader2010
reader2010's picture

The Empire will need to move itself to China, and it will later be called the East American Empire. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:33 | 2723932 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

Hmmmm, I was thinking that war with the "Eastern Axis" (China, Russia, Iran) was going to be our excuse for martial law.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:40 | 2723933 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

After a morning dealing with Public offices I could give a flying fuck; burn it down and we'll cope. Those that can't cope will either pass or fail the survival test and flunking out is permanent, don't pass Go, don't get a $200 SNAP card, and thanks for the great compost.  About two months ago I get a letter from the Supervisor of Elections stating my address is not a residence and I have to contact them or be removed from the voter rolls. I contact them, tell them I've owned this property for 10 years, have been registered to vote here for 6, my utilities are paid here, my drivers license is listed here, etc.  'OK, no problem, Property Appraisers office is providing confirmation on your residency and they don't have you down as owning a home. We'll just go ahead and override the system and you can vote.' Cool thanks. Now I don't own a home, I have a property with a previously permitted Single Family home that was never completed due to the County approving a blown out footer which my engineer would not approve continuing to build on and the builder walked off the job, after which we sued each other for 5 years. I still have no 'home' on site because the County wants all the permits and plans repaid/redone before they'll move ahead and approve the existing structure as a 'home'. About two weeks after this call a County Appraiser shows up unannounced, asks some questions, says she doesn't know why the SOE is requesting they visit all these properties in the area but there she is. I show her the reworked plans for the structure, she takes a picture of the same building that's been there since 2002 and leaves. Last night I get my tax bill in the mail and it shows a 22% increase in value and a 26% jump in taxes. I call the PA and they say they never taxed me for the structure(it's a one-story block walk-out) even though my taxes have gone up my double-digits every year since 2002. The market peaked in 2007 but my propery value is less than half that valuation but my tax is 81% of that years tax rate. I point out that the 'improvements' have been on the tax roll since 2003. 'Yeah, but we didn't tax THIS structure.' There's nothing else here BUT that structure and it is on the property card. 'We'll have to review it.' Why are you taking direction from the SOE? Doesn't know. SOE office; 'We don't demand they do this.' But it's written right on their work order that it was ordered by you. 'We're just verifying voters addresses.' So if I renounced my citizenship, went to Mexico, climbed a fence to get back in I could vote more easily? '(Nervous laugh) No, probably not.'  Screw a system that operates like this. Two of my neighbors have also now been 'adjusted' because they had the same visit by the PA's office and are in a similar boat; they technically do not have a CO'd 'home' so they can't Homestead and cap taxes but they pay taxes and can't vote without a 'home'. I gave up my voting rights and so did my neighbor, the one who's lived here for 35 years, before the computerization of the tax rolls, who built a house from scratch, and is now being taxed into oblivion/homelessness.  Burn it down now and let's build a sane system, a fair system, and while in a hundred years it will have to be burnt down again, so be it. WTF do I care? I'm a taxpaying citizen with no rights anyways. I wonder if the fire department would even show up if I called them...y'know, the one I pay taxes for.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:01 | 2724027 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Wow.....just Wow. Epic rant!

It's called a "Catch 22" my son. Learn to love your enslavement. And don't struggle too much 'cuse you'll damage the property.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:30 | 2724138 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Where the fuck do you live.....California?? That's exactly how it works "out west"

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:40 | 2724164 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Florida...probably the next California in the making.  As with many of the CA poster's here who've dealt with this, the change over decades has just been a slow creep into the abyss. Will be interesting to see how Florida swings this year. I didn't plan on voting for either one of the 'lesser of two weasels' in the Prez contest but I guess I'm out of the equation altogether now. I will however, show up in an upcoming council meeting and make my thoughts known on how absurd this process has become and how it's got to change. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:56 | 2724244 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

Stay where your at jack-off!  Almost all of the fruits and nuts come to California from other States.  From a native

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:22 | 2724110 prains
prains's picture

What happens after the collapse?


165 million people walk to canada and learn the official "eh"

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:34 | 2724150 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Don't you mean "meh"?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 15:50 | 2725017 prains
prains's picture

what are you talking aboot

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 19:18 | 2725639 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

We get to shoot the zombies.  Oh crap, we are the zombies!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:26 | 2723369 Jason T
Jason T's picture

i don;t like that when he says "from the taxpayers".. 

govt taxes everything, not just income ... everybody is paying taxes but  we're still living way beyond our means.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:39 | 2723419 Hero Protagonist
Hero Protagonist's picture

With respect, Deficit spending + unlimited credit card made taxation as a restriction on spending moot.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:41 | 2723420 Mercury
Mercury's picture

If you're paying (sales, excise, tolls, fees-whatever) taxes with other people's taxes (transfer payments) you're not really paying taxes... you're just receiving a lesser net amount of someone else's taxes.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 17:16 | 2725341 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

I can never get the teachers I know to follow this argument.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:51 | 2723471 Pa Kettle
Pa Kettle's picture

"Taxpayers" (Spitoo!) is a term of art, coined with malice aforethought to dehumanize "We, the People," and reduce all to a mere source of revenue for the guv'mint. Anyone who uses the propaganda term, under any circumstances, in any context, is a water carrier for the propagandists, knowingly or unknowingly.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:42 | 2723747 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

The easiest way to destroy a society is to ruin the language, as you mention.  Conservative used to mean "responsible, fiscally sound, don't fix it if it ain't broke" for example, and Liberal used to have the dictionary meaning as well.  No more - Those labels have been coopted by radical right statists and radical left statists.  Oops, left and right no longer mean what they used to either - we can't even talk about the truth the way the language has been trashed without making up some new terms!

And since most people think in language...

CS Lewis wrote about this way back - closer to WWII, and it's still true.


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:15 | 2723875 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

see G.Orwell, Politics and the English Language (1946)

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 11:44 | 2723975 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

not exactly. I know I paid a lot less in taxes on my capital gains last year.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:26 | 2723371 midtowng
midtowng's picture

This article puts the cart before the horse. More people becoming dependent on the government since 2008 isn't because the government changed anything, its because the economy tanked.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:07 | 2723561 HurricaneSeason
HurricaneSeason's picture

It's because the factories went to China, so the government made a phony economy where housing was like 20% of GDP and home values were increasing enough to allow more equity borrowing for cars or vacations by someone who never even had a job. Throw in a couple wars and a TARP to try and cover it up and voila. Now, we need all that going again in addition to the $Trillion dollar a year deficits plus more to cover the new interest payments being created or punt and let the dollars value fall by half.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:27 | 2723374 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

We are ALL "State Dependents".

How to get out of that is how to avoid disruption of social fabric.

It's a "thought question", remember those?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:29 | 2723378 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Here's my  (Insert Romney/Obama here) 4 point plan to handle the social burden:


1. Import more citizens (and goods), especially from third world countries.

2. Issue more debt to pay off debt coming due (win-win)

3. Allow corporations (basically political donors) to continue to shelter taxes

4. More war. We need to be involved in nation building. Just believe me when I say this helps us, somehow.


How people can be so fucking dumb to believe either of these two is mind-boggling. However, these are the ideas Americans want to vote for, but it depends if they have an R or D next to their name. It is actually amazing if you think about it, how propagandized our citizenry has become.


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:51 | 2723472 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

individuality has been squashed...we are...iBorg. join the collective mindset OR ELSE!!!!! hmmm iSEE Apple bought that fingerprint recognition software company. hey,you know thats gonna turn out real well.. oh brother. iMEAN oh BIG BROTHER.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:48 | 2723776 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

Biometric passwords are the dumbest solution looking for a problem ever.  All of them are easy to cheat and what are you going to if someone gets a copy of your fingerprints or retina?  Have new fingers installed?  At least I can change a normal password.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:22 | 2723636 RKDS
RKDS's picture

Absolutely.  I just can't decide if it's stupidity or insanity.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:39 | 2723728 malikai
malikai's picture

Who needs critical thinking when you have Snooki?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:37 | 2724160 Renewable Life
Renewable Life's picture

Hitler and the boys, would blush with excitement if they coud see today what they created, and frankly probably be shocked at how well it all worked!

Brainwashing a nation with visual and audiable stimilas into committing mass murder, seems like kindergarten class, compared to global economic domination without firing a shot!!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:29 | 2723379 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Social security, medicare and medicaid will destroy us alone. Skip all the other excuses of welfare, food stamps etc...The baby boomer will never accept a cut to social security and medicare and the do gooders will never alllow a cut to medicaid.


We are financially doomed. Accept it.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 12:43 | 2724184 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

when the gvmt goes tits up, the boomers will have no choice but to accept not only a cut, but the entire rug being pulled out from under them. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:07 | 2724290 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

When is that gonna be, Mr Know-it-all......

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 13:05 | 2724283 SanOvaBeach
SanOvaBeach's picture

Damm right!  I'm a baby boomer and I won't accept a cut to SS or medicare.  I could care less about the future of this Country nor do I give a shit about Generation X, Y, or Z.  I'm for me and the maggots well have already eaten the flesh off my bones in another 20 yrs.  You see, young guy, its your problem.  As I said before, I do'nt give a fuck.......

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:30 | 2723380 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

The number of people this article categorizes as those who "pay no taxes" seems to square up almost perfectly with the number of people living at or below the poverty level.

Is this article suggesting that people living at or below the poverty level should be paying income tax despite their lack of livable income?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:34 | 2723402 youngman
youngman's picture

Yes....everyone should pay something....if they have no skin in the game....then they will not care if government wastes money....

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:42 | 2723430 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

the term used in this article and many other places that people "pay no income tax" is a misleading choice of words. What it should more accurately say is that people do not earn enough money to merit ADDITIONAL tax payments at the end of the year. To say people who have jobs but do not pay "uncle Sam" at the end of the year do not pay taxes is quite simply false and misleading. People with jobs have taxes taken out of their checks and they, in many instances, pay a much higher effective tax rate than man of those that "pay taxes" at the end of the year.

For those who make more money it is very convenient to talk about taxes paid in terms of "how many dollars they paid" but it's not quite so convenient to talk about it in terms of what percentage of your income went towards taxes.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 10:27 | 2723669 RKDS
RKDS's picture

You're lucky when an article bothers to go so far as to mention "income."  Usually it's the same slack-jawed "dur hur, XX% don't pay any taxes, ahyuk."  Press a little and they might backpedal to it before flying into a rage. The cognitive dissonance of morons who can cry for hours over the crushing burden of taxation conveniently forgetting that there are many taxes besides federal income tax is astounding.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:35 | 2723384 booboo
booboo's picture


The next time you are in a community meeting and some dipshit elected official or prole say's "We need to" step up and ask them which one of them are brave enough to step forward and take what "We need" from YOUR wallet.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:33 | 2723395 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Jeff Berwick of 'Dollar Vigilante' says we have 242,000,000 dependent on the some form or fashion


Time to end the PETRODOLLAR

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:33 | 2723396 youngman
youngman's picture

We need a reset....we will reset...and there will be many many unhappy people...when they no longer GET what they think they DESERVE...who will get angry...and break windows and steal things...then burn them....then beat people up for the color of their skin...Watts riots comes to mind....that is what is coming...and it won´t be pretty...nor will it be multicultural....

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:37 | 2723411 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

I think resets only work when EVERYBODY becomes unhappy.

It hasn't trickled-up yet.

There may be a signal event, such as 9/11 was, eh?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:55 | 2723492 madcows
madcows's picture

Resets don't require unhappiness.  You can have a financial collapse totally independent of happiness.  They've borrowed and borrowed and borrowed.  Soon, they'll hit the wall where noone will lend them anymore money.  That's when it all comes crashing down.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:33 | 2723397 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

At least this won't affect the stock market.  [/sarc] Onward and upward!

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:33 | 2723398 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

Just saw a patient who works for the state doling out EBT benefits and welfare checks in a rural county in Fema Region IV.

She is busy. 

Numbers of folks signing up for benefits is not going down.  Welfare rolls are going down however. 

I came to find out that there is still a 'work for welfare' system in place.  Deal is you have to volunteer 20-30 hours/week to get your check.  After 5 years of grabbing welfare checks they stop however. 

This 'work' program doesn't appy to Medicaid/Medicare, Food stamp and many other programs. 

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:33 | 2723399 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

No shit? These geniuses finally discovered more than half are now dependent?

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:59 | 2723513 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture



Only half? Ashamed I am......where did we go wrong?


Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:35 | 2723404 Marigold
Marigold's picture

Go GATA go. Let the system be purified with molten hot gold and silver poured nicely into pretty coins and ingots. Let real value be money again.

Tue, 08/21/2012 - 09:37 | 2723414 diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

a populace of sheeple is the ultimate political weapon


the only thing better would be to construct agiant holographic economic deathstar running on a hyper computer in the basement of $GS and then swap it for the real economy without anyone noticing


i mean if you did both those things...

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