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Art Cashin On #OccupyWallStreet, Marlon Brando And Ann Coulter

Tyler Durden's picture




 

The daily dose of truth from the UBS veteran, as indispensable as morning coffee. Today, he covers Steve Jobs passing, the "Barroso" market, and the Occupy Wall Street movement in his unique and traditionally laconic way.

On Barroso Bobbing, and on market moves:

Barroso Bobs About But Bulls Hang On With “They Finally Get It” Thesis - While there were several pieces of economic data here in the U.S., they served primarily as background static to the continuing drama playing out among the banks in Europe. As I have been saying for months - Europe is driving this bus.

 

Rather than going step by step and minute by minute through yesterday’s action, it might be better to try to get a general overview from 30,000 feet or so.

 

For many months now European authorities (and the world press) have been framing the very volatile and nervous trading in markets a “Greek” (or other sovereign) debt problem. Markets, on the other hand, have been yelling (and gyrating) saying - yeah, that’s right - long term - but you have a banking crisis - right now.

 

That’s why markets erupted in the final hour of trading Wednesday. Leaders began to talk about recapitalizing the European banking system - and quickly. Suddenly, markets said - “They get it. They finally get it.” They were going to look at the real problem, at last.

 

One of the things that probably caused that “Eureka” moment among European authorities may have been Dexia, the large but virtually unnoticed Belgian bank. Dexia, or at least the rumors surrounding Dexia, became the perfect poster child for the problems and risks surrounding European banking.

 

Since we first noted the Dexia rumors three days ago, the layers of the onion are being peeled away, one at a time. It had originally passed the stress test with flying colors. That raised questions about the validity of the stress tests. Next, there were reports that Dexia was highly leveraged, with at least one source saying it has twice the leverage of Lehman before the fall.

 

Then there was the risk of contagion. Rumors began to spread that Dexia was involved in U.S. municipal bond trading, in Guaranteed Income contracts, various annuities, and on and on. Traders felt they were reading a paper with a dateline of 2008.

 

So, with the eruption, or at least unveiling, of Dexia dropping a flaming example of the banking problem into the laps of the European authorities, markets felt assured that they could no longer ignore it or even postpone addressing it. That’s what caused the late Tuesday rally and the carryover yesterday. The action today and tomorrow may tell us a great deal about what kind of legs this action will have.

On Jobs:

This morning the papers, media and newsletter are filled with deserving tributes to Mr. Jobs. He was truly unique. My best recollection was when he described the MAC as the “computer for the rest of us”. He made technology that worked for you, rather than the other way around. From the MAC through the iPod, the iPhone; iTunes and the iPad, he made devices that looked and felt cool. He put us in “touch” with the world around us.

 

An innovator on the culture-changing level, his loss leaves us with nagging question - what if? We may get a hint of that when, and if, his revolutionary vision of the next TV is released.

 

He touched a generation on a personal level as may be seen in the tributes showing up on sidewalks outside Apple stores this morning. As the ancient Romans would say on the passing of a great commander - “Ave Atque Vale!” (Hail and Farewell!)

And on Occupy Wall Street:

Wall Street Protests - Two favorite observations on the vague and often conflicting “goals” of the protestors. First, from an FoF member:

The Occupy Wall Street protest is reminiscent of the scene in the 1953 film "The Wild One" where a young woman asks a motorcycle gang leader played by Marlon Brando, "Hey Johnny, what are you rebelling against?"

 

Brando deadpans, "Whaddya got?"

Then, from Ann Coulter:

I am not the first to note the vast differences between the Wall Street protesters and the tea partiers. To name three: The tea partiers have jobs, showers and a point.

 

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Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:37 | 1745100 Payable on Death
Payable on Death's picture

The right and left meet at this point: recognition of the oligarchy. Business and political elites are running the country for their own benefit.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:45 | 1745155 D-Man
D-Man's picture

Exactly... this is not the left people versus right. The governments divide and conquer the people will not work. This is the 99% of the American people against the corrupt and mismanaged federal government who are raping the country for the benefit of the .01-1 percent.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:50 | 1745181 Totin
Totin's picture

I wish that were true because there are things in the OWS movement that i agree with but unfortunately, moveon.org, Media Matters, Soros, and the Unions are making it a left people versus right.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:53 | 1745204 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Good for you -- purity is sorely lacking in our world.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:49 | 1746276 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

wait. Art Cashin quoted the Coultergeist?

Is there no one left to believe in?

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 10:39 | 2454787 Rasna
Rasna's picture

Be VERY happy that you don't have to wake up to her in the morning!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:54 | 1745207 redpill
redpill's picture

Sadly correct.  It's becoming evident the "Occupy Wall Street" crowd is much the the same as the MoveOn.org crowd that is going to line up and try to re-elect the current oligarch in the White House.  These are leftists that love big government and collectivism as long as they are getting the policies they want.  Perhaps unknowingly, it is precisely their willingness to cede their economic liberty to the federal government that has made the extent of corruption and corporatism possible.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:56 | 1745223 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Got a camel and a riding crop?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:57 | 1745228 redpill
redpill's picture

No, just a coherent philosophy.  Is that too much to ask?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:04 | 1745278 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I just think a camel and riding crop setup would be more effective in disrupting the leftist protests.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:08 | 1745298 redpill
redpill's picture

I don't want to disrupt the protests, I'd just rather they'd do a better job at thinking things through to their logical conclusion so that when it comes time to vote for someone they don't ask for more of the same.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:24 | 1745401 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I'm disinclined to believe that voting is going to be the catalyst for change.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:44 | 1745534 redpill
redpill's picture

Maybe, maybe not.  But then, peaceful protest probably isn't either.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:46 | 1745551 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

+1

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:56 | 1746316 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

There 4 boxes to be used in defense of liberty, the ballot box, soap box, jury box, and ammo box.

Sadly, you're probably right, and we're running out of boxes.  Hedge accordingly.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:19 | 1746409 unnamed enemy
unnamed enemy's picture

the only box that works is the ammo box, and the masters of the universe and their dogs (cops) know it.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:54 | 1748128 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

The ammo box works for removing tyrannical regimes, but leaves the risk that something even worse might fill the resulting power vacuum.

Mon, 10/10/2011 - 16:48 | 1759018 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As well as legitimize  the idea that violence is acceptable as a social solution, when it really just lays the groundwork for the next uprising.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:52 | 1745593 PhotonJohn
PhotonJohn's picture

As long as ppl vote for politicians nothing will ever change. Will a true statesman please standup?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:26 | 1745817 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Don't you see the contradiction here: You don't want people voting for politicians, but you want a statesman to stand up (presumably to be elected?)!?! :-S

The first step should be to revert to a Republic of Sovereign States (ie. with 50 different state governments that we can begin to sort out one-by-one) by dismantling the Federal Government altogether. Washington DC is beyond repair and causing more damage every day with its printers, its military and its police state apparatus.

All we need is a group of people to edit the original Articles of Confederation to include the imperial conquests that expanded the original 13 states into 50, then let's get cracking!

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 03:04 | 1748822 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

if you're gonna put it that way, how about some invisible green arrows?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:51 | 1745972 tsx500
tsx500's picture

       RON  PAUL   2012  !

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:15 | 1746396 i-dog
i-dog's picture

*sigh* ... statists never learn!!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:18 | 1746671 11b40
11b40's picture

Now, tell me again, what choices we are likely to see at the ballot box?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:24 | 1745402 Kayman
Kayman's picture

coherent philosophy ?

At the extremes the left and the right always merge into some form of Dictatorship.  Sometimes benevolent, sometimes not.

But when you are jobless, and the future is bleak, a coherent philosophy is a luxury, not a necessity.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:29 | 1745432 redpill
redpill's picture

I disagree.  If you are despairing to the point that you will protest/sacrifice/whatever it takes to affect a change, you damn well better have an understanding of what is going on so that the ultimate cause is worth it. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:00 | 1745630 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

They (the attendees) will gain that understanding when they are told what is is.  Until then, it is a huge (and growing) team-building session, gaining all of the "usual suspects." - Ned

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:17 | 1745348 Crassus
Crassus's picture

That wasn't a real camel.  It was John Negroponte and Paul Wolfowitz in a camel suit.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:11 | 1745319 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

don't be so quick to judge. many are dissappointed with obama on the left as well. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:07 | 1745676 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

True lefties Hate that corporate whore in the white house.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:23 | 1746142 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Really? True lefties are too stupid to understand there is a corporate whore in the white house. True lefties covered up for Stalin, who was 10x the genocidal manic that Hitler was, and that's saying something. They didn't really [and don't] have a problem with Mao either.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:30 | 1746192 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

Bite me

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:40 | 1746234 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

But they will gladly re-elect BHO.  Four more years.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:18 | 1745354 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

Look, the protests may not have a coherent message at this point but the protests of Wall Street and corporate greed even if the protestors don't know exactly why they are doing it are a good thing.  They are bringing people's attention to it.  People are now asking "what should they be requesting" and thinking further about why people are angry in the first place.  And there are many among the protestors who know exactly what they want, which may be different specific things, but they all coincide with the fact that our current financial oligarchical system does not work for the vast majority of the country.  The movement will become more organized and even if it ultimately fails it is making people more aware that there IS something to protest, which can only be a good thing.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:48 | 1745571 Greater Fool
Greater Fool's picture

Yes, and if there are demands, and if momentum gains, then be very careful of what you're actually buying.

For example, I walked through the protest last night on the way home from work to get a feel for it. Along the way, off to one side, I saw three very well-fed looking people in MTA / TWU garb talking to one of the protestors. The TWU guy talking had a quirk of a smile on his face, saying "Oh yes, we should work together more...." To root out corruption in power...uh huh, right.

Anyway, I have marched in far bigger protests than this in NYC that caused nary a ripple. It's good theater, and yes the word is getting out, but (a) for most in the US, events in NYC seem roughly as relevant as events on Mars; and (b) revolutions are made to be co-opted, and there are many, many groups ready to co-opt this one if it actually gets somewhere.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:41 | 1746243 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

"for most in the US, events in NYC seem roughly as relevant as events on Mars"

I disagree.

Timing is everything you know....

http://songsofthegreatdepression.blogspot.com/

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:24 | 1746701 11b40
11b40's picture

Most of America is just now learning about OWS.  Give it time.  Already there are several other "occupys" -- K-Street, the various FED buildings, Washington, and more will come.  The seeds are germinating.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 00:32 | 1748626 dehdhed
dehdhed's picture

i agree,  there are probably millions just waiting for protests to get organized.

for some to suggest there is no point in protesting, or that every protest must have a clear message, well they must be living under a rock

for every protester there could be a seperate and distinct reason

i doubt the american revolution began just because of the tax on tea

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:10 | 1745696 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

If one cares to Look or Listen then they'd know there ARE demands and a clear message.

But you got to look beyond the Corporate media for christ sakes.

Use that thingy called the googles on the internets!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:21 | 1746119 Neuromancer
Neuromancer's picture

Here's a clear list of demands. They actually DO fall in line with some TP rhetoric.

 

 

1. Reinstate Glass-Steagall

This would re-create a regulatory wall between commercial and investment banking. (The repeal of this act in 1999 is said by some to have contributed towards the financial crisis.) 

2. Bring alleged Wall Street criminals to justice 

Ensure appropriate federal agencies fully investigate and prosecute the alleged Wall Street criminals that were responsible for the financial crisis 

3. Repeal the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling 

Enact legislation to protect democracy which would restrict corporations from allegedly 'buying elections'. By reversing the effect of the Citizens United Supreme Court ruling, corporations would be highly limited in ability to contribute to political campaigns - no matter what the election and no matter what the form of media.

4. Fair taxation

Pass the Buffet Rule on fair taxation, so the rich pay their fair share.

5. Revamp the Securities and Exchange Commission

This would ensure the integrity of the marketplace is protected, meaning citizens and investors are also both protected.

6. Increased political transparency

Limit the influence of lobbyists at Congress, and increase political transparency so people know what Congress is up to. 

7. Congress passing 'revolving door legislation'

Passing legislation eliminating the ability of former government regulators going to work for corporations that they once regulated.

8. Instate a Tobin Tax

A Tobin tax would hurt Wall Street bonuses and curb high-frequency and other trading activity.

9. Eliminate 'personhood' legal status for corporations

Suurce: http://hereisthecity.com/2011/10/03/9-demands-occupy-wall-street-want-me... Combine this with the Kucinich NEED act and that's a pretty coherent plan for reform, I'd say.   http://www.opednews.com/articles/Kucinich-Proposes-Landmark-by-Dennis-Ku...

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:10 | 1746339 j.tennquist
j.tennquist's picture

None of the demands you listed are a ringing endorsement.

Most are dogs of a different color.

Repeal Citizens United.  And what about Moveon.org and big unions?
So, corporations are barred from having a political interest but the elections can be bought by
501(c) corporations?   Why split the hair of one entity spending another persons money and be treated differently than activist groups.   And what is the difference between the two, exactly?

Fair taxation:  This one is vexing.  Define fair. 50%?  80%
Just define the word fair.
Who gets to be the arbiter or fairness? 
What if you live in a big house while I have to rent a small apartment, that is not fair.  Shouldn't you be forced to sell your big house?  It's not about equality, this BS never is...  it is about the appearence of equality through coercion. The government forces us all to play nicely, even millionaires.  Golly, isn't it sad to learn that redistibution really is profoundly evil (not to mention regressive).

And why are you so hot to give the government more money?  Do you believe they will pay down debt or spend/waste even more?   Even odds they spend every cent of any tax increase + added deficits and then come back next year pleading poverty.

Sorry, your list of greivances is a bunch of big government nonsense.   There is a name for the pathology and delusions you suffer from.
The word is
Democrat

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:50 | 1746555 Neuromancer
Neuromancer's picture

Some people were unclear about the list of demands - thought i'd post it for everyone's edification.

Now if you want to ask my personal opinion, well, I'm an anarcho-communist, so it's doubtfull we can even talk about it since we lack a common reference point about just about everything. I don't believe in goverment, nations, finance, marketing, or even money -- at all. I believe in systems theory, resource management, education, and quality of life. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:26 | 1746440 i-dog
i-dog's picture

The ship is sinking, so ...... stop fucking around with the deck chairs!!!!!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:26 | 1746442 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

How about we get govt the F*(& out of everything and let things work themselves out. I swear 99% of the so called answers start with " The Government needs to" . thats the damn problem.  the Govt. I was 18 and voted for my first presidential election. the candidate stated it more simply than has ever been tried again. The Govt is not the solution to the problem. The Govt is the problem.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:46 | 1746533 knukles
knukles's picture

Most the poeple here don't have a cogent message either.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:37 | 1745486 HCSKnight
HCSKnight's picture

I'm loving the OWS show; OWS = ontological wing-nuts screaming. Shows the failures of the US educational system, her rejection of moral foundations, and the results of culturally embracing the "me" generation, all wrapped up in one.

Sadly, what we are seeing is the beginning of the synergy between three things:

#1 Demographic inversion in which the older generation selfishly laid their debts (Social Security & free health care) and political wants on the younger; the latter are rightly very pissed off.

#2 A younger generation (OWS) raised, literally, as Pagans; which means they will have no moral check when it comes to "correcting" the selfishness of #1 via violent selfishness (think French Revolution)

#3 A younger generation that has been led to believe that an educational system that values "self-enlightenment" and has jettisoned the study of Philosophy, can educate man. It can not, and on a daily basis OWS shows the depth of ignorance and shallowness of knowledge now infecting society. Classic example, "isn't it amazing how these kids know technology" - older generation talking about kids playing video games and texting on cell phones.

Go watch Idiocracy and Mad Max girls, one of them is someday coming to your town.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:10 | 1745686 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

Interesting, cogent observations.

+100

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:26 | 1745823 EternalVigilance
EternalVigilance's picture

Am I to assume that "ontological wing nuts" should be looking to Wall Street for moral foundations?

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:43 | 1745916 Mr. White
Mr. White's picture

On point #2 -- "moral values" don't prevent violence in crisis situations or conflicts. Rather, religion and other ethical systems can justify violence and render it harsher by virtue of its absolute righteousness. As a product of the "pagan" postmodern, relativist stew myself, I see a lack of the necessary commitment to undertake harsh or extreme measures outside the world of video games. "Selfishness" rather takes lower risk forms of self-expression and, to a lesser extent as yet, self-sacrifice through nonviolent tactics.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:05 | 1745917 Mr. White
Mr. White's picture

points 1 and 3 are cogent....

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:05 | 1746046 lostintheflood
lostintheflood's picture

A younger generation (OWS) raised, literally, as Pagans; which means they will have no moral check

 

why would you think that pagans have no morals?  talk about narrow thinking!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:06 | 1746347 Goldtoothchimp09
Goldtoothchimp09's picture

Pagans ... would you prefer the be raised in fear within a superstitious, hierarchal religion?!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:22 | 1746425 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

(think French Revolution)

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:20 | 1746117 dcb
dcb's picture

hi, my name is red pill and I am filled with the worst stereotypes of the left that the right can paint. I am not different than those lefteis that think all tea party folks are stupid racist pigs. I am a tool for the belief system fostered upon me by others.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:53 | 1746299 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

Just in case there are some real conservatives reading this, the quasi-conservative tea party was brought into being and is being led by fascists, pro Muslim brotherhood, no taxes for the rich, profits at all costs, money before America lying shit heads like the Koch brothers, Glenn Beck, and Grover Norquist. The truth about Norquist has been made public by a true conservative, Joseph Farah. Conservatives wake up ! The 99% is the place to fight the oligarchy not the oligarchy serving tea party. Don't believe the false claims made here about the 99% being there to relect Obama. Read the truth about the author of the no taxes for the rich pledge that many republican politicians have signed and one of the tea party founding fathers Grover Norquist and decide if this is what you want to fight for.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=352153

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 19:34 | 1747954 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

Hackshit: Devalued and downgraded.

 

Wed, 05/23/2012 - 12:36 | 2455325 Rasna
Rasna's picture

"... it is precisely their willingness to cede their economic liberty to the federal government that has made the extent of corruption and corporatism possible."

Just wondering...

Were you around while Bush, Cheney, et. al. were shredding the Constitution and Paulson was running around on Capitol Hill during the Fall of 08 waving his single piece of paper (that he wouldn't show anyone) that justified his request for over $700B to save the banks.  This after the private meeting with his buds a GS where upon they were fast tracked to become a bank.

Or, perhaps you were around while Clinton signed away jobs and manufacturing with NAFTA, China into the WTO, etc., which Bush I paved the way for.

It goes on and on.

When we begin to understand that the concepts of Left & Right, Red State and Blue State, abortion, gun control, gays in the military, womens rights, minority rights ARE ILLUSIONS CREATED TO DISTRACT ALL BUT THE FINANCIAL ELITE!!, we may beging to see how to reclaim governance of our country.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:54 | 1745210 D-Man
D-Man's picture

They are trying. They are trying to keep us divided. We must put aside our difference on these matters (I personally think Unions are a relic of the past and only hurting our country but that's another story). We must unite with the goal of reforming Washington and creating a prosperous country of opportunity for all. Not just the top 1%.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:02 | 1745267 redpill
redpill's picture

The trap is that those on the left would ask for increased economic authoritarianism to "punish" these Wall Street people, when in reality, giving the federal government more power is only going to make the problem worse and more concentrated.  Conversely, many of those on the right don't want to undo all the special subsidies and deals for corporations for fear of being labelled "anti-business."  So you're left with an endless tug of war, and the losers are the American people that are forced to continue to fuel the corruption and gluttonous lifestyle of the oligarchs.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:00 | 1745628 Instant Wealth
Instant Wealth's picture

Good point, Pill. I`ve been trying hard, to get this into the minds of the folks around me for some time now. Sometimes a tiresome and frustrating experience, esp. when you hear things like "But in the news, they said .. etc.". Even my best friends needed about three years, to come to the conclusion, that I have a point here.

That damned Status Quo is a bitch ...

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:39 | 1745880 Seer
Seer's picture

"The trap is that those on the left would ask for increased economic authoritarianism to "punish" these Wall Street people,"

Really, you know what everyone/anyone baised toward a political position/stance KNOWS/WANTS?  How do we put YOU in charge?

Maybe, just maybe, repill (jr. I've been on a full dose for MANY years) people want the EXISTING laws enforced?  Oh, but that would require regulatory oversight, and we know that that's not permissible in the fantasy libertarian world, is it?  In That world people only have property rights, don't have to pay taxes, don't need regulations, yet demand that somehow someone be responsible for making sure that Their property rights are upheld.

Fuck, I get property rights, I get BAD GOVT, but pulling shit out of your ass and suggesting that an entire group wants more laws just because you would like to demonize said group.  Well, I'm not thinking that you're as smart as you might think (that or you're trying to make your shit look bigger in front of the big libertarians running around here).

Being totally independent I can quite readily spot the stupidity present by all emotionally charged ideologues.

Disclaimer: I see you and I raise you.  As "zero govt" wants it, I too don't want any govt.  Of course, however, this will mean no real cavalry handy to come to your rescue for "property rights" (I'll add that I have plenty of property, so this isn't coming from someone who is sitting in a commune).  Just tired of all the stupid hyperbole and shitty logic that pops up when people start getting hard-ons over political ideology.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:38 | 1746218 redpill
redpill's picture

Ah yes, the "I'm going to assume I'm older than you and then type condescending bullshit" response.  Why don't you heed some of your own advice about emotionalism, stupid hyperbole and shitty logic and check your own attitude first.  And hey, just in case you are extra old, here's a big fuck you for not heading some of this stuff off a generation ago so my children and I wouldn't have to deal with it now.  How's that for age warfare?

It's hardly presumptious to note that those on the left favor economic authoritarianism.  If they didn't, they probably wouldn't consider themselves to be on the left by definition.

Liberty is not a fantasy, it was what our country used to be, it's what revolutionaries bled and died for.  A return to a federal government properly bound by the Constitution is something that has existed before, and can exist again.

And how you manage to make the leap from economic authoritarianism to protection of private property rights is headscratch-inducing.  Is this like your safety net argument every time you run into someone that advocates liberty?  There are plenty of avenues for protection of private property rights, and most of them have nothing to do with the federal government.  Keep in mind, governments today violate private property rights more than anyone else.

I don't know what kind of "full dose" you've been on, but it certainly isn't reality.

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 10:48 | 1749621 Gadfly
Gadfly's picture

Bullshit platitudes.  Most politicians are damned liars.  There really isn't much difference between a Republican and a Democrat any more.  They all make the same grandiose promises when they're running for office, sing the same ideological song, then they bend over and grab their ankles as soon as they get into office, and start selling out the people who elected them and begin pandering to big money and special interests, whose agenda is very different from yours and mine, so they can hob nob with the rich and famous and take care of themselves after their term is over, and make even more money before they were elected.

 

Both the Republicans and Democrat keep kicking the can down the road while feeding us a truck load of shit, and hoping our financial problems will miraculously solve themselves.  The United States is bankrupt under any definition.  The only thing that hides this fact is the government printing press.  The Democrats and Republicans think we can keep spending billions a day chasing down a few thousand patriots who live in the mountains in faraway places, don't have a pot to piss in, and who we call "terrorists."  So we spend billions bombing and killing their men, women, and children (and making defense contractors rich) and wonder why they want to kill us.  But no one wants to cut defense spending.  This is the definition of insanity.  It is also the greatest money making racket and con job ever devised by man.  Perpetual war against an unknown and unseen enemy -- a fictional enemy.  This is evil beyond evil, and we all sit back and watch it and let it happen, and so we are all complicit.  You too bitter pill.

 

What is destroying this country is good old fashion GREED.  We have made money and wealth our God, to the exclusion of morals and values, and now we are going to pay the price, because a society based on greed cannot and will not sustain itself.  This is the myth of unbridled and unregulated capitalism.  It's like trying to have a football or basketball game without rules or referees.  What you get is chaos and violence, not an orderly and fair game.

 

A certain percent of the population consists of sociopaths and psychopaths who will do anything to win, anything to beat their opponent, anything to gain wealth and power over others.  Their psychology demands it.  They will lie, cheat, and steal; stay up late, day after day, year after year, scheming, conniving, persuading, cajoling, stealing, defrauding, all the while others sleep.  They never have enough.  Their greed is insatiable.  They will destroy people and even a country if they have to in order to get financial and political power and maintain it.  Look at Kaddafi, Hasni and the other Middle Eastern leaders.  Look at the more polished variety in America – the Koch bothers, Goldman Sachs, and on and on.  Most people will never comprehend the psychology of these people because they are not built like them.  So they project their own psychology onto these psychopaths, who are thinking, “Thank you so very much you dipshit for giving me the benefit of the doubt and helping me to do my greedy lawless thing.”  So we need laws and jails to keep these greedy, destructive sociopaths and psychopaths under control or under lock and key, so they don't destroy the game for the rest of us.   We need rules and referees and a government that enforces those rules.  This is the games theory applied to economics.  And anyone who thinks we don’t need rules and a government to enforcement those rules, doesn’t know a fucking thing about human nature, or history, or anything else for that matter.  Maybe we need less government and less government spending, and the spending we do have should be focused on services only a government can provide and coordinate, but don’t ever try to convince me that human beings, if left to their own devices and ungoverned, will do the right thing all by themselves.  No fucking way Jose.  Why do you think the Founding Fathers created a government composed of three co-equal branches -- because they believed in the goodness and benevolence of mankind?  On the contrary, they were students of history and they knew about the nasty tendency of some human beings to try to destroy and overthrow democratic institutions and to accumulate power.  So take your Libertarian no-government bullshit ideology and go pedal it somewhere else.  It’s bullshit and it will never work as long as there are human beings involved.  It’s as idealistic and stupid and unworkable as communism.  

Fri, 10/07/2011 - 11:11 | 1749700 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Totally illogical, irratational bullshit!!

First you say that there is a bunch of psychopaths scratching and clawing their way into government:

"They will destroy people and even a country if they have to in order to get financial and political power and maintain it."

Then you say that we need more rules and more government (to control the psychopaths in government who are both making and breaking the rules)!!!!

Government is the problem, not the solution! Statism is dead!

Put down the crack pipe and engage some brain cells!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:06 | 1745294 Andy_Jackson_Jihad
Andy_Jackson_Jihad's picture

That really is the truth of it.  OWS was called for by Anonymous back in summer IIRC.  Despite Anon's seemingly juvinile vanalism of websites, their complaints seem rational and well researched.  Many here would agree with them (end the fed, fuck bernanke, etc.)

The people that actually showed up are your traditional leftists it seems.  Maybe they were guided there by the usual globalists wishing to stir division and make this about left vs. right again, or maybe those types are just drawn to protests because they like to bang drums, ditch work and complain.

One thing is apparent to me:  There is a lot of common ground the tea party and moveon individuals could agree on if anyone ever emerges with a better message to peel them away from their behind-the-scenes puppet masters.

OWS turned into "gib me gib me gib me more free shit" and the Tea Party turned into "waaah, waah, jesus says to F-off poor people" when both movements started more or less spontaneously in response to what the financial oligarchy is doing.  Almost like there's someone pulling the strings for both sides....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:13 | 1745330 redpill
redpill's picture

Part of it is that many Americans are only barely awaking from the haze of American Idol, NFL Football, and delivery pizza.  Just like when you get up in the morning before you've had your coffee, things can be unfocused and confusing.  Many people in America are getting pissed, and they lash out at various targets, without truly understanding why things are the way they are.  That's why you have lefties in New York yelling at stock brokers (many of which are typical working professionals and really not the ones at fault here) and Tea Partiers squawking about welfare recipients or illegal immigrants.  People are searching for a cause, and it is hard for them to believe a calm and intelligent sounding man named Benjamin Bernanke in his majestic Federal Reserve building could be a devil that is far more worthy of protest than these other far more socially convenient targets.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:40 | 1745886 pods
pods's picture

I look it like this RP, as long as the people start to stand up to the status quo, I am for it. I dont care if they are wanting free shit, gay marriage for midget wrestlers, etc.

As long as people start to demand that their servant government obey them, it is good.  And the more decentralized the better. I want it to be an eclectic mix of all peoples.  

Pretty soon people will wake up and realize that all of them are being screwed.

If it is leaderless and disorganized, it will not be co-opted or discredited.  

pods

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:41 | 1746497 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not really...  people across the developed world have been protesting...  have been making demands from their governments...  the problem is that it's for MORE government...  more entitlements...  more bread and circuses.

We keep seeing the same thing happen after each protest...  big nothingburger.  In the end, demanding that the government obey the protestors is meaningless if the command is for more government...  This is the difference between say greek protestors and those in tunisia...  Of course, the problem with simply removing a dictator, e.g. mubarak, is that a military junta might just replace him...  and might just be worse in some regards...

Seems to me like there is discontent everywhere, but it's nearly universally unfocused or only focused for brief intervals sufficient for immaterial (in the big scope) change.  I realize that there is no magical protest pill and these things take long periods of time to work through, but as I see it in the short term, we're either cutting off our noses to spite our faces (rushing forward for regime change, et al, without any plan for substitute) or merely demanding more of what caused the condition of discontent.  I see occupy wallstreet, et al, on the whole, as being no different.

Eventually discontent will boil over into frustration as no avenue seems to work...  eventually frustration will boil over into creative activism, which covers the entire gambit of possible action.  At present, the situation is contained because this mere discontent has no mechanism for material change... and has yet to boil into frustration.  The ability to assemble and protest (including on financial blogs) helps contain discontent.  So too does leader changes and elections fairly frequently...

In the event the discontent actually becomes focused and frustration sets in, then the ball will start rolling.  However, I don't see any fruitful changes happening prior to economic collapse, which is going to happen inherently, without the need for any protesters...  and figuring out what will occur on the backside is...  a guess at best.  I am fully confident there will be people protesting at the same moment the public broadcast announces over the radio "and it's gone"...

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:12 | 1745723 Woodyg
Woodyg's picture

Even Before Anonymous got involved a website called www.ampedstatus.com was calling for these protests.

David degraw.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:10 | 1745315 j.tennquist
j.tennquist's picture

Put your fantasies to rest, or better yet put them to death permanently.

"We must unite with the goal of reforming Washington and creating a prosperous country for all."

Do you know how that reads?

It reads as if prosperity can only flow through Washington to the masses.  That we need to get the crooks out of Washington so that we can get some real honest cronyism going.  
If you depend on the feds to provide you with hapiness or security, I pity you, you have my sympathy to the core.

That's the crux of the problem with #Occupy movement.  They want more government.   I say we need less.
Less regulation.
Less unaccountable spending.
Less involvement of the state in the conduct of our personal lives.

The government or a movement won't make you free, for prosperity or anything else.
Until you fully absorb that, you will remain shackled.

But, as Kafka noted: "It is often safer to be in chains than to be free"

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:23 | 1745397 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

But, as Kafka noted: "It is often safer to be in chains than to be free"

 

Until the trireme gets rammed and is going under. But if you protest, you'll get whipped. Don't protest, don't fight, pull your oar quietly and pick your lock. When the ship goes under, help those around you then float away as free as a bird.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:16 | 1745741 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

"Chains we can believe in"

It's ALL coming back now ...

 

 

"It's a cookbook - How to Serve Man"

 

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:52 | 1745977 Seer
Seer's picture

I agree that we need less of all those things.  As a matter of fact, I'm man enough to say I need NONE of those things; I won't even ask for the small chains that would be required to have "property rights."

Yet again is someone painting in broad strokes.  I know people from all over the political and religious spectrums (and am well respected by them), and when I call BS on the generalized statement that "They want more government," well, again- BS!

People bash the Tea Party and everyone here jumps to defend the Tea party, claiming that the Tea Party is being misrepresented: I defend logic and sound positions no matter (have done so for the Tea Party).  Gee, don't ya think that the same thing can be happening to other groups?

I don't partake in this childish shit because I don't want to be a tool of the status quo, and by jumping on shit like this that's exactly what you (and others) are doing.

I don't agree that movements cannot help make you free.  I will, however, agree that govts cannot.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:15 | 1745728 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You could be right about unions.  I really don't have a dog in that fight.   The relic of the past has left a legacy, however.   People accept the fact that not working over 40 hours a week is a given, getting over-time pay is normal, having weekends off is right and proper, getting safe working conditions is a no-brainer.   Those seemingly common working conditions didn't exist not that long ago -- pre union activities.   I guess one could extend the analysis to social security and other "entitlements".   The normal was not so normal a hundred years ago.   Rest assured that Big Business would be glad for you to work in unsafe conditions, with long hours, buying from the Company Store, and just getting by, all in order to boost the bottom line and serve the shareholders.   I'm not pro-union, but some objectivity is in order.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:22 | 1746134 dcb
dcb's picture

if you don't have unions (labor), or some oganized way to fight capitial (the top 1%) how do you expect this to happen since they have the money to buy influence, etc.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:44 | 1745904 frobn
frobn's picture

duplicate post

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:51 | 1745942 frobn
frobn's picture

@Totin and the rest of those who want to obfuscate

You got one little bitty thing wrong, while there are many groups that are supportive of the protests this is not a left people vs right protest like some people on both the left and right want it to be. It is a protest against government and the less than 1% privileged against the 99% which includes right, left and all those inbetween. Keep saying its is a left thing enough times and you might just believe it. Or are you saying I agree BUT someone has to protect the Koch brothers who infiltrated and took over the tea party for the benefit of the 1%?

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:56 | 1746003 Seer
Seer's picture

Couldn't be stated any better.

Malcolm X stated (something to the affect) that we must be careful lest They have us hating ourselves and loving our oppressors.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:29 | 1746181 dcb
dcb's picture

my guess i s that he believed the iraq al queda connection and wmd as well. don't forget the biggest threat in the us is sharia law (LOL). right wing garbage spouting fucks (koch bothers), this aint left or right, it really shows lack of analysis, and as long as you buy into the whole left right crap, you are their tool.

 

the tea party and left all agree on:

1) getting out of endless foreign wars and engagements, gettng rid o some of those bases (ala ron paul)

2) ending corproate welfare from the government (you think the koch monied tea party, or the establishment tea party is going to go along with this they have been highjacked)

3) audit, oversight of federal reserve

4) end influence/ ownership of corporations over government

now their approach towards the problem is different, but once their kids start to die off from taited baby food, they will step up to seeing why we need government regulation real fast)

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:52 | 1745195 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Pre Enlightenment: The kings were rich because they were kings.

Post Enlightenment: The rich are kings because they are rich.

Kings is kings.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:59 | 1745247 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

so true

and peasants is peasants who instead of agreeing and unifying around the 80% they have in common they fight over the 20% on which they disagree

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:02 | 1745265 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

I wish there was a +10 button.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:09 | 1745312 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Yeah.. I'm a bit blown away that they are able to keep us separated over this issue.. The fucking parasite Bankers and Wall Street pieces shit that add NOTHING to our economy actually have people up in arms against them while an uncomfortable number of people are against the protesters.. wow..

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:55 | 1745603 ironsky
ironsky's picture

Protestors=mob. Imagine the delight of the left wing education establishment and professional agitators that they've turned a group of intelligent individuals into a thigmotactic amoebic slime. A very clever move to point them in the right direction for the wrong reasons.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:01 | 1745635 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Well, "French Revolution" type events have happened occasionally throughout history. If things turn out that way again, you can take comfort in the aftermath knowing you had figured it all out. A real mob won't give a flying fuck about what you think, though.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:38 | 1745873 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Sometimes I don't agree with you, Wang.

But, you hit this one out of the park.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:16 | 1745350 Breaker
Breaker's picture

"Exactly... this is not the left people versus right. The governments divide and conquer the people will not work. This is the 99% of the American people against the corrupt and mismanaged federal government who are raping the country for the benefit of the .01-1"

This is partly right. Both sides see a ruling class that benefits itself at the expense of the rest of us. But there the similarities end.

The OWS guys do not identify "government" as the problem. They identify Wall Street as the problem. Their solution: WAY MORE GOVERNMENT (read some of the silly lists of demands that are online--free everything, unlimited illegal immigration, end global warming and the immediate spending of trillions more by the government). On the other hand, the tea party identifies an out of control government as the problem and their solution is WAY LESS GOVERNMENT.

The OWS guys are in the tradition of the French Revolution, if you will. The tea partiers are more in the tradition of the American revolution. Were the OWS guys to have an actual revolution instead of a tarp-in, they would necessarily adopt severe totalitarian measures. Not likely though. Demands for a lot of cool, free stuff are not normally made by people who are willing to make the sacrifices demanded of a revolutionary.

So while there are some similarities in the identification of the problem (if you get abstract enough) by the two groups, solutions do matter (eg, the different outcomes of the two revolutions). There, the two groups have almost nothing in common.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:35 | 1745470 carlnpa
carlnpa's picture

The government is Wall Street, financial oligarchy. 

Corporate fascism. 

They sort of get it.

Just need to be slightly redirected at the FED.

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:00 | 1746021 Seer
Seer's picture

Hm, I don't want ANY govt, yet I was/am supportive of the "movement" (which I see as an action moreso than a co-optable movement).

But, I suppose people are free to be myopic in their view of things.  From simple minds come simple thoughts...

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:12 | 1746054 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

So the protestors are not consistent, and not articulate, but it is clear that what they protest is the abuse of the many by the few and these folks feel the consequences, as to the rest of us.  It is actually more dangerous that there is not a single message, this is what happens when true revolutions occur.  Soviet Union fell not because of one unifying message, nor Egypt, nor Libya.  Try and articulate the reason for the Libyan uprising, not so easy to fully capture the varying ideas and interests.

As for Ann Cunt Cruelture, she is mean spirted, lacks a heart, and is one of my least favorite people in the world.  I do not understand why anyone listens to her. There are so many other intellectual conservatives that actually have a brain.  She is offensive from every angle.  I wouldnt fuck her with your dick.

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:25 | 1746152 pelican
pelican's picture

Listen, not everyone in the Federal government is with .01.

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 15:02 | 1746917 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

No, it's the corporations and bankster....through bought off gov't official's approval, that are raping the country.

 

Of course whose ideology has duped our corps, banks, and gov't officials?

Imperial Monetarism.  Some it's Keynesian Monetarism. Other's it's Austrian Monetarism.  Some with imperialism, some without.

But the keywords are any ideology that involves imperialism OR monetarism of ANY form.

 

Remember it's the corps and banksters that are whispering into the ears of the gov't the policies that divide and conquer the people.

 

Glass-Steagall

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:57 | 1745229 Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

The right and left meet at this point: recognition of the oligarchy. Business and political elites are running the country for their own benefit.

No.

The right isn't interested in replacing "business" (as you so all-encompassing state it) with bigger government.  This Occupy Wall Street camp out is nothing more than yet another so-called "anti-establishment" (unless the establishment is handing out free this and free that) freak show for leftist malcontents to mingle, pat each other on the backs and feel good about their sorry lives.  They will crawl back into their holes...they always do.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:19 | 1745784 RockyRacoon
Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:47 | 1745943 pods
pods's picture

Exactly why this can be so powerful.  It is the fact that it is not focused and is leaderless.  Kind of a physical manifestation of the web bots collective mood.

When this becomes focused with stated goals then you will know it has been co-opted.

As an aside, why can't I give you a green vote RR?

Anyone?

pods

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:18 | 1746105 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I'll assume the 1 green I have (so far) is yours.  Thanks.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:33 | 1746473 pods
pods's picture

Hmmm, now I can do it, but only in the reply window. See if it sticks. :)

Must be another club I ain't a part of!

pods

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:14 | 1746392 Louie the Dog
Louie the Dog's picture

If it's not focused and it's leaderless then it's a mob.  

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:31 | 1746465 pods
pods's picture

And your point?

pods

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:24 | 1746699 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I've got no problem with a mob right now.. Better than the majority of fat stupid lazy americans sitting on their couch watching football/Am Idol eating doritos and complaining their biggest problem of the day was that the Pizza place doesn't start delivery until 4 pm..

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 21:52 | 1748246 TrulyBelieving
TrulyBelieving's picture

The reason they are unclear about their demands is because they wish not for you to understand the real motive. If you look at who is running this show, moveon.org, unions, Soros, and various other socialist groups, It should be clear what will happen if these people have their way. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:03 | 1745270 Nascent_Variable
Nascent_Variable's picture

There was a great column on CNN, of all places, by Douglas Rushkoff.  He theorizes that the Occupy Wall Street Protests are the first true 21st century, internet-driven political movement.

Like the internet, it has no centralized goal or rallying point.  It is a hivemind that knows in broad strokes what it opposes, but each person has their own individual reasons.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:06 | 1745295 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

OT: Ogolfer to speak from the east room this morning.  Apparently regarding his jobs plan.  Get ready for market flushage.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:25 | 1745416 DeadFinks
DeadFinks's picture

Jobs plan?  That means he'll roll up his sleeves for the speach.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:41 | 1745898 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

And he'll be shoveling it out, alright!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:46 | 1745545 Ay Caramba
Ay Caramba's picture

Perhaps there doesn't need to be "a point" right now.  This might be a Howard Beale moment:

I don't have to tell you things are bad. Everybody knows things are bad. It's a depression. Everybody's out of work or scared of losing their job. The dollar buys a nickel's worth; banks are going bust; shopkeepers keep a gun under the counter; punks are running wild in the street, and there's nobody anywhere who seems to know what to do, and there's no end to it.

We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. And we sit watching our TVs while some local newscaster tells us that today we had fifteen homicides and sixty-three violent crimes, as if that's the way it's supposed to be!

We all know things are bad -- worse than bad -- they're crazy.

It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out any more. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we're living in is getting smaller, and all we say is, "Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials, and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone."

Well, I'm not going to leave you alone.

I want you to get mad!

I don't want you to protest. I don't want you to riot. I don't want you to write to your Congressman, because I wouldn't know what to tell you to write. I don't know what to do about the depression and the inflation and the Russians and the crime in the street.

All I know is that first, you've got to get mad.

You've gotta say, "I'm a human being, goddammit! My life has value!"

So, I want you to get up now. I want all of you to get up out of your chairs. I want you to get up right now and go to the window, open it, and stick your head out and yell,

"I'm as mad as hell,

and I'm not going to take this anymore!!"

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:23 | 1745803 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

 

 

 

"We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. ..."

OFF the reservation; cite some facts vs a convenient polit rant

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:23 | 1746140 Neuromancer
Neuromancer's picture

Douche

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:42 | 1746247 lostintheflood
lostintheflood's picture

"We know the air is unfit to breathe and our food is unfit to eat. ..."

OFF the reservation; cite some facts vs a convenient polit rant

 

geez...look around you...the evidence is everywhere.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:23 | 1746695 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

geez dude, you just wake up?  where you been?

Exposed: Secret Presidential Chemtrail Budget Uncovered, Congress Exceeds Billions To Spray Populace Like Roaches

http://theintelhub.com/2011/03/30/secret-presidential-chemtrail-budget-u...

High-fructose corn syrup is the primary source of calories in the United States. In addition to containing mercury, a known carcinogen, cancer cells actually feed on high-fructose corn syrup after it is metabolized by the liver. A new study, published in the Expert Opinion on Therapeutic Targets, examined the link between refined sugar and cancer. The results add further evidence to the reports of many health experts and scientific studies that have drawn the connection between excess sugar consumption and the development of cancer.

http://www.activistpost.com/2011/09/cancer-feeds-on-fructose-americas.html

of course, I realise if you were at all interested in learning about your environment, your food, or your water, you'd already be on the case. . .

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 13:20 | 1746414 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

Rudderless temper tantrums about a wide variety of "maladies" that apparently should not be co-opted by any rational organized articulate thought about the principle cause of their plight.  Presumably that way there can be no rational principled response or argument to refute their cacophony of grievances.       

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:00 | 1745632 Panache for the...
Panache for the Crash's picture

They are not 'running' the country - in the same way that an engineer runs a production facility - making sure everything performs smoothly.  Rather the oligarchy does things such as paper over problems, kick cans down the highway, doublespeak to keep the public in the dark, line their own pockets, get re-elected, and pander to their constituenticies.    A more accurate statement might be:  The elites have much power over certain aspects of the country, and they use this power for their own benefit, while trying to persuade the 99% that they are indeed running things for the good of the country.

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:40 | 1745895 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Speech of the century:

unwashed eh? I think not: if you have not heard this, you are in for a treat

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQow0Fhua1A

 

Whalley

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:21 | 1746118 Gene
Gene's picture

Perhaps, but it appears to me be the same crowd that runs around during G7 I mean G20 meetings.  Mostly, they should go get a job.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:38 | 1745107 Syntaxkat
Syntaxkat's picture

Ann the man, still working people up.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:40 | 1745119 snowball777
snowball777's picture

A stupid leech who's lifeblood is the status quo. She will not be missed.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:43 | 1745138 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Neither will you

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:47 | 1745168 snowball777
snowball777's picture

As I said before, you are a sad-faced, chest-thumping clown and the world will rejoice at your shuffling off your mortal coil.

And didn't you say you were "done with responding" to me after having your ass handed to you on McCarthy the American Stasi?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:50 | 1745184 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Nonsense.   Just on the McCarthy point, because you failed and it was boring.   Responding is part of the art of communication.   Of course, when all you have is yellowed Union hall notes....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:06 | 1745292 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Never paid a due and I run my own business. Again, you fail.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:55 | 1745606 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

arent you late to the occupy WS rally, snowball?

LOLOL  snowball.

Hey Lance, snowball me!

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:09 | 1745692 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I'll leave you and Lance to your proclivities as I protest on the other coast...in front of the SF Federal Reserve.

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:48 | 1745169 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture

 

Neither will you

A little harsh.....funny though.

 

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:53 | 1745202 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

I dont practice a belief that women should be subjected to the same rigors that would be imposed on men for similar behavior.. but in this case I am will to make an exception.

at the end of the day..

the protests against wall street will continue..

they will grow around the country..

and then! we will have an incident!

blood, children's blood flowing on youtube.. then the networks.

and that event will signal the beginning of the ball game!

I could tell you that you should run away and cower somewhere! but people that lack a spin have a hard time traveling.

 

as for your little homo-erotic tiff.. leave your soft petting of men far from anything as pure as occupywallstreet.

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:58 | 1745622 LasVegasDave
LasVegasDave's picture

Occupy WS pure??????

holy shit - you really are stupid

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 20:58 | 1748137 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

we know.. you are trying to protect all your JOO Buddies on Wall Street! no worries.. we will be treating them like every other scumbag.. no one is getting hanged any more or any less for Treason! LOL!!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:45 | 1745153 earnulf
earnulf's picture

I can agree with Ann on the tea partiers having a point, it's just on the top of their head

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:52 | 1745197 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

+1

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:58 | 1745235 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Co-option is one of the most finely honed implements in establishment's tool box.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:39 | 1745112 Note to self
Note to self's picture

re:  OWS.   So old Mike Bloomberg himself controls the cops in this picture.  Wow - this is going to be fascinating.

Oh, and Ann Coulter could use a job, a shower, and a point herself!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:40 | 1745113 Darth Silver
Darth Silver's picture

ann coulter has a way of breaking things down to the basics. 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:46 | 1745160 Sgt. Oddball
Sgt. Oddball's picture

I wouldn't be too quick to listen to anything Ann Coulter has to say, especially after her anaylsis of the Fukushima event.  According to her radiation is good for you.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:53 | 1745203 fonestar
fonestar's picture

People call this woman a "conservative"?  God help us all!!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:16 | 1745353 g speed
g speed's picture

she needs to quit smoking cigarettes   ---it's stupid and-- it stinks--

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:11 | 1745322 pods
pods's picture

Ann Coulter merely thought the radiation would help shrink her Adam's Apple, 

Now it is just a lil Ann Apple.

pods

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 11:13 | 1745736 chunga
chunga's picture

Who is Ann Coulter?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:55 | 1745220 fonestar
fonestar's picture

With crude, media-whoring and counter-factual commentary?

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 12:13 | 1746085 Dingleberry
Dingleberry's picture

She is the reason that women shouldn't get to vote.........

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 14:30 | 1746731 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

LMAO - do you have a list for why "men" shouldn't get to vote yet?  'cause we could sure start one, hmm?

and I didn't junk you, waaaay to obvious, thought I'd mock you here instead.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:41 | 1745116 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Tyler has not been supportive of occupywallstreet. Not sure why.

His arguments are intellectual...and by that same intellectual token ZH itself has 'no point'...it only has a point if you believe in this sickly system.

There are many of us who 'feel' the oppression, but do not have the words to describe it. This does not mean that we dont have no right to oppose.

THe result oriented mindset of ZH is bothering me....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:42 | 1745125 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Okay...so that's one vote for petulance. Duly noted.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:45 | 1745154 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Tyler has not been supportive of occupywallstreet. Not sure why.

 

I don't know about Tyler but I wouldn't join in a protest against everyone whose name starts with a "B" just because Ben Bernanke would be one of the targets. Similarly I can't support those who want to throw out the baby (free enterprise) with the bath water (crony capitalism).

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:57 | 1745224 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

 

 

the reason that it "ALL!" has to go is because of the rampant corruption.

that's why a full stop and purge is needed.. and its coming, honestly I didnt think it would be this soon.. but its here, embrace it or?? suffer at your own hand.

i told everyone that physical solar was a buy.

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:19 | 1745369 sbenard
sbenard's picture

Chaos is NOT the antidote for corruption! Anarchy is NOT freedom!

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:38 | 1745487 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Anarchy developed through and respectful of self reliance and individual sovereignty is the only path to freedom.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 09:58 | 1745234 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Haven't you worked it out yet? Crony capitalism is the inevitable result of free market enterprise.

let me break it down in simpleton terms

Succesful market participants grow in size and power

You either let them continue unfettered and they use their position to further expand their power making efficiency immaterial (and you get Exxon running the world)and it's crony capitalism

 

...or you let Governments interfere - and as a free market supporter I don't have to explain why that's a  bad idea.

 

In what fantasy does this have a different story?

 

Like every free market supporter you make the classic mistake of reading Adam Smith - saying "that's good" - and not realising that in his day there were no giant corporations abusing market share.

 

Smith's theories were created for his time - they do not work forever. If he was alive today he would bin his own theory in light of the results and evidence over the long term.

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:05 | 1745290 redpill
redpill's picture

The only way to prevent crony capitalism is to have a vigilant electorate that insists the government stay constrained within its Constitutional bounds.  Since we don't have a vigilant electorate, and we have failed to prevent government from expanding and becoming corrupted, we're, to use the French, totally fucked.

 

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:32 | 1745451 Andy_Jackson_Jihad
Andy_Jackson_Jihad's picture

To have a republic based on checks and balances where the law is applied equally to all?  What a thought!

All the shit about crony capitalism would be a non-issue if the gov't simply followed its own law, or at least re-wrote them to prevent so much "nuance" in their interpretation. Think of if the old trust-busting laws were applied based on some threshold of concentration ratio we probably wouldn't have half the issues we do now with oligarchs. 

Simplify the laws and use a computer to analyze the logic as first line of analysis of suites.  That would eliminate most of the power of government to selectively enforce and thus eliminate the incentive to bribe in the first place.

I'm always amazed how folks bitch about how corrupt government is yet don't see the connection between power and the icentive for others to corrupt it.  If only "their" guy was running the show everything would be just fine....

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:38 | 1745488 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

If only "their" guy was running the show everything would be just fine....

 

WISDOM +1

Thu, 10/06/2011 - 10:42 | 1745517 redpill
redpill's picture

Yup.  Arguing over who has the gun in the room instead of asking why there's a gun.

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