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Art Cashin's Three Observations On The Millionaire Tax

Tyler Durden's picture




 

As usual, UBS' Art Cashin, who may suffer the occasional pint but never outright idiocy, cuts right to the chase. His bottom line: "According to the Tax Foundation, after the 1929 crash, Congress proceeded to raise the top marginal tax rate from 25% to 63% by the end of Hoover’s term.... As you may recall, hiking those rates may have made folks feel that rates were more equitable but it sure didn’t help the economy."

Full note:

The Millionaire’s Tax - Three Observations - The expected proposal by the President to tax annual income above a million dollars may be too cute by half. It clearly looks like a “populist” initiative and clever political maneuver. By setting the threshold at $1,000,000 it boxes out almost all the Republican allusions to small business entrepreneurs and hits a number associated with wealth in popular culture (“So You Want To Be A Millionaire”, etc).

 

But, it looks so much like an “in your face” political challenge to his opponents, that may have evaporated all that talk about “constructive compromise” that popped up after the disgraceful debt ceiling debate. Markets sold off after the debt debate on fears that if a real national crisis were to erupt, both parties would continue to posture in partisan acrimony as the situation worsened. We’ll see if the new tax proposal re-ignites those fears.

 

Secondly, the tax proposal is being dubbed the Buffett tax since Mr. Buffett has long proclaimed that it is unfair and embarrassing that he pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary. That could be instantly remedied by Mr. Buffett (or one of his accountants) by listing his income as ordinary income on his 1040A. Then he would be taxed at a rate equal to, or, more likely, higher than his hard working assistant.

 

Third, the proposal flies in the face of the lessons of history. According to the Tax Foundation, after the 1929 crash, Congress proceeded to raise the top marginal tax rate from 25% to 63% by the end of Hoover’s term (hat tip to the sharpeyed Mike Higley’s “By the Numbers”). As you may recall, hiking those rates may have made folks feel that rates were more equitable but it sure didn’t help the economy. Just a few thoughts.

 

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Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:37 | 1684194 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's great and all, except that we will all be "millionaires" in a few years, if not "billionaires", "trillionaires", or higher.  As with the alternative minimum tax, this tax will soon come to haunt the poor (no more middle class by then).  Swell move there, Feds.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:45 | 1684239 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Exactly, got physical? Know your neighbors?  You better.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:48 | 1684262 kalum
kalum's picture

Amen

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:00 | 1684308 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

 

 

As with the alternative minimum tax, this tax will soon come to haunt the poor (no more middle class by then).

I am so tired of hearing about tax rates. The tax rate means shit to the rich. It is the effective tax rate that the rich and their advisors are expert at minimizing.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:23 | 1684398 Nascent_Variable
Nascent_Variable's picture

Exactly.  Lowering the top rates and closing loopholes is the only way to fix the tax code.  The current version is expressly designed to reward cheaters and encourage capital flight.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:34 | 1684448 Augustus
Augustus's picture

Let's even out the tax rates.

I want to be in that group that pays NOTHING in income taxes.

Let those moochers pay their Fair Share.

RIGHT NOW.  RIGHT DAMN NOW.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:17 | 1684986 theabyss11
theabyss11's picture

Yeah man, I'm up for it. I'll tell you what. I support a family of four on about 2K a month. Bunch of goddamn moochers that we are, we don't pay any taxes. We can switch jobs (mine's easy and doesn't require any intelligence to do right?) and I'll take your tax burden off your hands for you.

How about taxing people based on the percent of wealth they control? If the top 20% control 85% of the wealth, shouldn't they be paying 85% of taxes? Nothing more fair than that. You pay into society what you take out. You seem to forget that the bottom 80% of this country only control 15% of the wealth.

I don't understand why people bitch about food stamps or really any help given to the poor but don't have a problem with giving out trillions in corporate welfare and tax breaks to the banksters and corporate elite that are raping this country.

 

 

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 02:02 | 1687737 FlyPaper
FlyPaper's picture

I help a homeless guy, and he stays in a shelter.  Every month when the SS disability checks arrive, the shelter loses about 1/3 of its guests - for about 5 days, until they run out of money for their drug binge; and they end up right back in the shelter.

Giving people this money isn't helping them, and pisses me off no end.  You are working and can't make ends meet?   I'm fine with helping you and others, and I'll bet that the majority of the people posting to this site would too.

The waste is horrendous.  Drug addict guy I know has received at least $500k in free medical services by sticking needles and getting infections, septis, collapsed veins, flesh-eating bacteria.  Seen it all.   He takes zero responsibility and whines incessantly when people push back on him when he demands services "I know my rights" he says.  

Why should the taxpaying public support someone who has a death-wish?  Why should my insurance premiums go through the roof to provide free care to someone like this?  Because our government MANDATES it.   I actually help this guy with food because he would starve - and he's a fellow human being; but I make the choice personally to help; and I don't have the fricking government telling me where my moral compass ought to be.

One doesn't have to lack compassion to resent misallocation, fraud, cronyism and abuse of our government chums.  Nor do I lack compassion when I am against this kind of "wealth redistribution."

Would help a hell of a lot more if Americans got off their butts and actually helped others - we'd be able to roll back government and have a better society.  Socialism ruins lives.

 

 

 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:59 | 1684988 theabyss11
theabyss11's picture

 

 

 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:40 | 1684496 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

I am so tired of hearing about tax rates. The tax rate means shit to the rich. It is the effective tax rate that the rich and their advisors are expert at minimizing.

I am too, but because I think we have a SPENDING problem. It doesn't matter what the tax rates are, if they perpetually plan on spending more than they bring in.

You're right on about 'effective' tax rates though, but not just for the rich.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:37 | 1684815 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The income tax rate question is an easy one to answer, in a free society. Income tax rates must be ZERO for everyone in a society of Free Men. When your labor benefits someone else (the government) before it benefits you, then you are a slave. Really, it's that simple.

Until the 20th century, the Federal Gov't did just fine with excise taxes. Excise taxes are perfectly compatible with freedom and liberty. Income taxes are SLAVERY.

Do you want to live like a slave? If so, then keep arguing about income tax rates.

Wed, 09/21/2011 - 08:44 | 1691834 Immortal Flatulence
Immortal Flatulence's picture

Amen! Bring back the times when gov't didn't pilage enough to get big.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:16 | 1684364 aaronb17
aaronb17's picture

This would be an incredible windfall to the middle class, who currently is weighed down by crazy amounts of debt.  I would LOVE for inflation to devaluate the hell out of my student loans and mortgage.  If I was making a million a year, even if it meant that I lost some purchasing power, I would still be in great shape, because the $2000 a month I currently pay in interest to the banks would suddenly be very very manageable.  

Which is why I doubt it's going to happen.  

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:31 | 1684435 Marco
Marco's picture

You are exactly right ... hyperinflation is not the end game of TPTB. Inflation is allowed as long as they can still steal more wealth, but as soon as we start seeing not just inflation but wage inflation starts keeping pace then the real end game will be set in ... deflation and massive waves of defaults.

 

The banks will collapse, most everyone will default ... and the creditors at the top will end up owning almost everything from the collected collateral. At which point they will also promptly give anarcho capitalists among us what they want, low taxes and small government. Because as soon as you own everything why would you need government anymore to steal anything for you?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:18 | 1684378 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

in 1992 Clinton raised taxes on high earners and the dire predictions were all the same and the tax did not hurt anything and the economy grew just fine.  Then when Bush came in he repealed the 1992 tax increases and the deficit ballooned and so on.   

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:28 | 1684426 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

I remember the luxury tax.  Congress thought it would be great to tax luxury items like big boats.  That tax put several small shipyards out of business.  The idiotic tax code is just a make work program for tax attorneys and accountants.  We just need to peg the tax rate at a simple percentage for everyone.  But then, we'd have to make sure everyone could do a bit of math....

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:37 | 1684466 Marco
Marco's picture

When you increase taxes to reduce wealth inequality luxury shipyards going out of business is what _should_ happen ... you reduce consumption from the rich, you increase consumption from the poor and middle class ... and they don't buy yachts.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:28 | 1684761 Sgt.Sausage
Sgt.Sausage's picture

==> you reduce consumption from the rich, you increase consumption from the poor and middle class

Hogwash. When you reduce comsumption from the rich, you reduce consumption from the rich. That is all you can conclude. Period.

Let's say I have 26 million laying around I was gonna spend on a yaht. Now I don't spend it on a yaht 'cause I don't want to spend the extra tax. How the hell -- can you *explicitely* tell me how the "consumption from the poor and middle class" increases by me leaving my 26 million right where it is. We'll be waiting. Moron.

 

 

 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 18:31 | 1686408 serndipity
serndipity's picture

What is a 'yaht' ?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:37 | 1684473 Augustus
Augustus's picture

The Clintoon miracle resulted from $10 oil prices and taxes on an internet bubble.

Did his high tax rates cause oil prices to drop to $10?

Cheap energy prices stimulate all parts of the economy.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 13:49 | 1685363 malek
malek's picture

It's getting tiresome to read all these "under Clinton it was better / fine" claims.

If he was really so great, why you don't get over it and demand Bill Clinton to be reinstated a president right now, as then everything will magically turnaround and good times will return, indefinitely?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:15 | 1684658 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

 

I learned long, long ago that we have a Progressive Income Tax system in the USA. This language arts excuse for a stalemate as we embrace cognitive dissonance is an experience in senility.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:37 | 1684195 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Cashin, bitchez!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:37 | 1684200 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

It has nothing to do with helping the economy.

Obama: "Hey, look at those people over there. (Pay no attention to the fact you are jobless and future-less.)"

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:00 | 1684306 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Classic political theatre about nothing.  Democrats:  "the answer is more taxes.  The rich need to contribute more."  Republicans:  "the answer is lower taxes.  We need to stop giving so much to the poor."  Meanwhile, our entire economy has been transported overseas to benefit our corporate oligarch masters and no one is even talking about trying to fix that.  I guess if you're one of the oligarchs or one of the politicians they control, it ain't broken so why fix it.  

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:38 | 1684205 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Art, Art, Art....Last time wealth was so concentrated at the top we had a Great Depression. During the 4 decades when the wealth disparity was at a minimum the economy boomed at astounding levels. And now it's concentrated again, the natural outcome capitalism. The world has watched this movie before. No, wealth never trickles down. Ever. It gets hoarded, offshored, and placed into non-productive assets including trust funds for the children and grand-children of wealth. Eventually it becomes an aristocratic wealth system of inherited entitlements. 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:43 | 1684229 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yeah I love how these folks whine about "entitlements" like food stamps after firing thousands of employees.  Someone needs to talk about these kleptocrat's "wealh entitlements" including all the tax loopholes and socialization of massive corporate losses because these motherfuckers feel "entitled" to large bonuses even when they FAIL.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:52 | 1684279 kalum
kalum's picture

Re food stamps

 

Thanks to Bernbanke policy of zero interest rates on my savings, I am a retired person now eligible for foodstamps. No wonder the  rolls are rising. More misguided FR and fed govt policies making more and more of us eligible for "entitlements" I guess they think it means more votes to keep the entitlement going.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:14 | 1684346 serndipity
serndipity's picture

The real reason you're on Food Stamps, is because your assets (e.g. cash, savings, investments etc.) are less than $3,000 (e.g. the maximum amount allowed to qualify).

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:51 | 1684274 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

Hey now, you can't mention anything bad about wealthy folks and the mythology they have spent decades creating around here. Such talk is blasphemous and you can bet several adherents of the religion of wealth, and even some high priests, will be here to read from the Holy Book of the Wealthy and Wannabes. Such talk is as sacrilegious as cuts to military spending.

You watch, they will come in droves to prove you wrong and vote against your comments. It's always comical to watch the serfs defend their servitude and their masters in the hopes they one day will have serfs of their own.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:19 | 1684379 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

The wannabes are more vocal and evangelical than the truely rich. They have to be to cling to their delusions

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:15 | 1684363 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Amazing how we have gotten the "natural outcome of capitalism" TWICE when we didn't have capitalism, which we last had in 1913.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:18 | 1684372 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

And what, exactly does this Kabuki theatre of "millionaires' tax" have to do with changing the wealth disparity situation? There are already more than enough loopholes to dodge this fucker before it gets discussed seriously, just got to pay the accountants and lawyers enough. My wife's sister is a lawyer in Panama, for $1,500 plus some fees, you can set up a shell company, have that company move its money through the Bahamas and whoo hoo!

So, effectively, this will be a tax on those who make between 1-2 million per year, successful doctors and engineers will get screwed, can't say I care about the lawyers. How about a flat-tax @19% with zero loopholes?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:32 | 1684438 ExpendableOne
ExpendableOne's picture

Try to talk to a recent college graduate about a flat tax.  They will probably tell you that's not fair!  You'll have to get out the big crayon and draw them a picture...

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:44 | 1684508 kalum
kalum's picture

speaks volumes about our education system

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:38 | 1684206 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Like congress are gonna pass tax hikes on themselves! LOL!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:39 | 1684209 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sweet, according to Art we have a depression and world war to look forward to.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:41 | 1684224 Cuchulain
Cuchulain's picture

A nonsensical and irrelevant comparison.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:44 | 1684235 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

Another reason to own physical gold off the financial grid.  I guess buried cash works just as well if you don't mind the depreciation.  But keeping it in the sysytem is just giving it away to socialists.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:45 | 1684243 mahalopamala
mahalopamala's picture

There are two tax codes. One for the uninformed, and one for the informed.  You can legally and ethically pay less tax if you have the money to hire tax attorneys and tax accountants. 

 I have a very low opinion of Buffet myself.  To me, when you make lots of money, it is for the betterment of your family/descendants, society, and in creation of jobs.  Too many billionaires use their money to keep score and try to tell others how to live. Some even believe that their accumulation of wealth elevates them to a holy standard- their ideas and beliefs must be better than the common folk because, they have gained an abundance of money.  I do think that many billionaires pay a lot less in tax.  There is no way that changing the tax code will help.  The understanding and application of the sheer number of laws, codes, and statutes is a full time job for all the CPA's I know. 

What a mess.  Just scrap the whole tax code and get rid of the IRS.  While we are at it- we can get rid of the FED, kick out all the macroeconomist advisors to the government and then we might have a chance to go back to a real economy - not a manipulated shell of an economy.  MONDAY MORNING - exciting times. Thanks for posting Tyler!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:56 | 1684277 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

You will pay more tax if you work for your money. You will pay less (or no) tax if your money works for you (i.e., passive income; think muni's).

The tax code is written to punish productive workers, and reward non-workers; including both welfare recipients and the very rich who live of their critical mass of wealth by way of tax-free investments.

This is the reality of the US tax code.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:49 | 1684264 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Obama is clearly the most unfit president we have ever had and likely a one termer. Having said that tax changes are necessary as are massive spending cuts. Having concluded Obama is not ready to lead we are in for a miserable end to his presidency.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:55 | 1684292 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Obama is just a name.

Is there a man/women currently running or has run at any time in the last 20 years, that could effectively do what needs to be done, with the cooperation of the congress and senate.

Has the game of governing become more about winning the battles within ones party than winning the future for ones country?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:52 | 1684280 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

One wonders which class benefits more from labelling this a class warfare?

What people really want in inherent fairness in the system.

BTW, i am amused that socialism is getting the blame for "American Dream". When in fact what is really killing the American Dream is crony capitalism. But, yes lets continue to blame the lower and middle class.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:15 | 1684361 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

 I see all this potential, and I see squandering. God damn it, an entire generation pumping gas, waiting tables; slaves with white collars. Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need. We're the middle children of history, man. No purpose or place. We have no Great War. No Great Depression. Our Great War's a spiritual war... our Great Depression is our lives. We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off.

Who knew how true this would ring nearly 16 years after it was written.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:20 | 1684387 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

Nice reference, 1stdiv . I hope many more will see the wisdom inherent in these words and shape their lives accordingly.

Why let stuff own you?

Why choose to give others a claim on your future productivity?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:17 | 1684367 Dantzler
Dantzler's picture

Socialization of losses is a corrosive action to the lower & middle classes. Perhaps that would be a part of crony capitalism.

Always enjoy your comments, lizzy36.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:55 | 1684291 jonan
jonan's picture

i'll watch capital flight while i hug my gold through the night...

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 09:59 | 1684307 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

EAT THE RICH!!!!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:02 | 1684317 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

How does this differ from the Alternate Minimum Tax, which I have never paid but forces my accountant to add about 1/3 to the pagecount of my tax return each year?

 

The shameful aspect of the Buffet Tax will be to cause a repricing of tax-free bonds, because depending if you "qualify" or not for the tax, these bonds will no longer be exempt from taxation.   It will also change the ROI for venture capital and angel investors.  Because moves the net after-tax ROI downward, it will cut off investment in the lower tiers of startups.   For post-Solyndra liberals, this means fewer startups, fewer real (that is non-government) jobs created.

The solution to the problem that Buffet has is twofold: 1) he is free to write a check; 2) his secretary and everyone in her tax bracket should be given the option to pay only as much tax (as a percent) as Buffet pays.  This is why so many people favor a flat tax and the "Fair Tax".

 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:09 | 1684341 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Oh noes...vultures won't be able to take a piece out of municipalities and entrepreneurs. I can see the old white men rioting now! LOL

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:07 | 1684940 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

Tax free munis are a huge staple of older, wealthier people precisely because of the tax advantage. Eliminating this simply means it will get priced in to the muni market.

This would be like increasing borrowing rates for Greece by the ECB.

It will put pressure on cities and states hastening their collapse.

This will affect poor the most since they depend far more than the rich on state services which will be cut (now more and more deeply).

Further, since this bill has mo chance of passing, he's likely hurting the muni market for no gain (market will price in the future, hopefully its smart enough to realize this won't pass).

It would be good if Obama had at least one person with real knowledge informing him.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:08 | 1684335 snowball777
snowball777's picture

What were top rates before Hoover's tax cuts? Hint: > 63%

Were rates raised only on those top brackets during the depression? Uh, no.

If you're going to pretend to be a student of history, at least get the story straight.

The most appropriate comparison between then and now would be that of a financial collapse following massive tax cuts and deficit spending!

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:15 | 1684359 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

Still doesn't answer the question why rich people don't pay a fair percentage in tax.

Get rid of income tax and solely have sales tax. Everyone pays the same rate and if needs be, only make exceptions for the ultra poor, instead of the other way around.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:18 | 1684375 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

But then people would be discouraged from buying a bunch of shit they don't need...and well, that would go against everything this country has  been built on the last 50 years. 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:29 | 1684427 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Sales taxes are highly variable (as goes the economy so goes the revenue), near impossible to collect, and would need to be 40% to make up the difference. No, thanks.

Rich people don't pay a "fair percentage" in tax (if you really believe that) because the system incentivizes them to shield income and treats certain types of income differentially in their favor (mort interest write-offs on million-dollar houses plural, hedge fund compensation, tax-free bonds, etc). And yet they still whine about how much they have to pay as if the military was protecting renters feeding themselves with foodstamps more than their multiple homes and expensive modes of transportation.

Class warfare has been the rule since this country was founded and any attempt to expose this truth is ironically labelled as class warfare.

Thieving hypocrites.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:13 | 1684645 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

As far as I can tell everyone who pays taxes whines about them. Perhaps they realize it would be better to burn the money for heat and light than give it to the govt to spend.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:28 | 1684760 snowball777
snowball777's picture

We'll get to see how awesome life is free of government and spending soon enough. Is it more fun to give it to multinational corporations or other brigands?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:42 | 1685105 jonan
jonan's picture

thieving hypocrites? tax is theft, period, put down your gun...or do you like weilding it at groups indentured servants...

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:19 | 1684998 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

Fair is subjective. About half pay no taxes. Why lump millionaires and billionaires together (one makes 1000 x more)? Answer: because it sounds good. Oh and by millionaire we actually mean 250k and up.

It's a distraction people. But from what?

FISCAL MISMANAGEMENT (example du jour: solyndra).

You can't make the government wiser by making it bigger. It's a cancer on the back of society, and it's time to cut it off (before the whole body dies).

The government wants the people to bicker amongst themselves while they and their crony friends steal the future and ready their life rafts.

Wise up and drop the idiotic class warfare canard.

Force judicial branch to prosecute for high crimes and misdemeanors: Cheney, Bush, Obama, Paulson, Blankenfein, etc.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:28 | 1684418 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

The bottom half of income (zero to 50%) earned pay the least population/tax ratio of 1.282.   The next lowest population/tax ratio is the top 1%, with a population/tax ratio of .51.   The next lowest (and quite a bit higher), is the top 86% to 95%, with a population tax ratio of .2.   The next lowest is the top 95% to 99%, at .175, followed by the top 76% to 85% at .12.  The 56% to 75% is eviserated, with a population/tax ratio of .0075.  

Clearly, that portion of population 75% to 100% should get their taxes raised just to get somewhat in line with the 51% to 75% Americans getting glued, screwed, and tatoo'ed in taxes far out of proportion to the top 25%.    But this is chasing our tail unless we reduce the current tax code from its thousands of pages, down to no more than 100 pages.    This will result in increased revenues.   

But this is pointless unless America adopts a balanced budget.   Currently, our federal government operates without a budget and has for 2 going on 3 years.  Not only must we balance the budget, we must give one person (The President), a line item veto over the budget as long as it is over budget.   One man must be ultimately responsible, or it will never get done.

But this is all pointless as long as the FED bank remains in operation, which must be closed and replaced with a publicly held central bank.

But that is a red herring unless America reverts to a classical gold standard instead of the 'phoney gold standard', being planned by our ruling kleptocracy.

And everyone that was part of the Crash of 2008 must be prosecuted for their criminal RICO violations stemming from the exclusive meetings that have been held at the NYC FED bank, the March 11, 2008 luncheon being but one of these illegal meetings.

The aforementioned are all parts of the 8-point legislative agenda that comprise the Contract With Americans: 2012, found in the soon to be released "New American Revolution: The Constitutional Over-Throw of the United States Government", coming to a book store near you. 

And that is pointless unless

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:59 | 1684576 wharfdaddy
wharfdaddy's picture

 the rich, I'm so fucking tired of hearing about the Rich, My ass bleeds for the Rich..Like I give a fuck if  Hank Paulsen, Mozillo and Blankfiend and any of those Phucks are missing out on a dime or if they don't get a bonus...what about bankrupting the country and socializing the losses of the banks? What do they deserve for that? These pricktwisters deserve to die. Jim Cramer doesn't even know what a Medal of Honor looks like...reminds me , When My buddy Sgt Trijillo got a standing ovation from both houses of Congress for his actions in Grenada, They stood him next to Nancy Reagan at the State of the Union...He told me he had a big chaw of stinky Tobacca with a pepsi can of spit juice and was cuttin cheese-Beer farts all the whole night ...we had a good laugh on that one..Cmon, who here thinks the world won't get by without a few less rich people???HUH?? Gimme a break! I say get the pitchforks..

 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:28 | 1685037 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

You are conflating the "rich" with "people who have committed high financial crimes."

This is similar to Obama confusing millionaires and billionaires with those making 250k.

The problem with such mistakes is eventually the rope may be around your neck (or some innocent you care about - google "French Revolution" to see how it all ends - spoiler, lots of non rich go to the national razor as the standards for justice get very lax).

The sloppiness of your generalization is intentional, crafted by the people who have brainwashed you.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 10:59 | 1684579 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Obama economics reduced to the family level. You and your wife have been spending a little too much for years. You take a job out of town for a few months, return home and find your wife is spending an extra $1000 a month on things she swears are "absolute needs". Your point out things are out of control and she agrees. Her solution is to continue spening $600 extra on her needs, you stop golfing on weekends to save money and use the extra time to get a part time job and raise revenue. No way this will fly in most homes across the US and no way it will fly in November 2012.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:20 | 1684706 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Ah gee.  The wealthy will have to reduce their purchases of 500' mega yachts, 50,000 sq ft mega homes, fully customized 737 private jets, $15,000 bottles of Lafitte, 75 carat baubles for their mistresses, Senators, and beluga caviar so the little guys don't need to go dumpster diving.  That's hard luck.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:39 | 1684822 notadouche
notadouche's picture

They reduce those purchases then the boat builder and their workers get laid off.  Carpenters and brick layers and roofers lose jobs.  Escorts go broke.  Be careful what you wish for.  When the rich feel poor, we little guys go broke.  How many construction workers get paid because the guy making 50k a year is building or buying luxury items?

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 14:37 | 1685532 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

You really think the rich support the local economy? I design yards for the rich, they hire a crew of people with fake social security cards that can't speak english, and they pay them cash. All that money leaves the country. I'm the only gringo for miles around, except for the people living there. More often than not the people living in the house are no longer gringo either, most of my clients are Persian or Indian. You think luxury goods are still made in the U.S.S.A.? A yacht company with 20 employees? Certainly the cars, jewelry, house materials and toys are all made elsewhere, only the pussy and the guy holding the hammer (both of which we can outsource away from expensive gringos) are local. The brick layer and the roofer will ALWAYS be a mexican, only the carpenter has a slight chance in hell of being a gringo. Or are you praying to be the gringo in charge of the crew of 20 mexicans? There's a looooooooooooong line for that job. A guy making 50k a year is buying luxury items? What? Dude your trickle down rhetoric was a joke during Reagan, and it's a joke now. Just because you're feeling the heat now that all your construction jobs are being outsourced or drying up, now you wanna prop up the 1% who need attendants. They don't need you, they like mexicans that can't file workmans comp.

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:44 | 1684843 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

No income tax increases, until spending gets cut to levels to balance the budget (just go back to 2008 spending levels to start -- why is that so hard?).  After that, go ahead and raise income taxes. 

We can not trust government with our money -- why should anyone give them more?  Let them prove their fiscal prudence before any tax increases.

Skip the "fair share" rhetoric -- those who make 20% of total income pay 37% of total federal income taxes.  And skip the cries about social security taxes - if you don't like Social Security taxes and what your administrator has done with your contributions, I will stand with you to get rid of that system. 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 11:44 | 1684845 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

No income tax increases, until spending gets cut to levels to balance the budget (just go back to 2008 spending levels to start -- why is that so hard?).  After that, go ahead and raise income taxes. 

We can not trust government with our money -- why should anyone give them more?  Let them prove their fiscal prudence before any tax increases.

Skip the "fair share" rhetoric -- those who make 20% of total income pay 37% of total federal income taxes.  And skip the cries about social security taxes - if you don't like Social Security taxes and what your administrator has done with your contributions, I will stand with you to get rid of that system. 

Mon, 09/19/2011 - 12:13 | 1684968 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

It's one thing to lock the barn door after the horse has bolted and something entirely different to lock the barn door after the barn has burned down to the ground.

Tue, 09/20/2011 - 00:48 | 1687637 innertrader
innertrader's picture

The answer is and has been right in front of you, for years!  It's the FAIRTAX!  Read the actual Bill, think about the consequences and you will be a supporter forever!

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